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View Full Version : Justin Houston: Vernon Gholston 2.0?


jetsfan0099
02-15-2011, 09:39 PM
That is what I heard, anyone else see that??

A Perfect Score
02-15-2011, 09:43 PM
Not at all. I'm not the biggest fan of Houston, but he isn't nearly as stiff as Gholston was coming out and isn't making the conversion to 3-4 OLB from DE same as Gholston because Houston already plays OLB at Georgia.

ElectricEye
02-15-2011, 09:50 PM
Houston is nothing like Gholston at all really. He's not this freak physical talent, but he's a lot less stiff and is already a successful pass rusher as a linebacker.

bored of education
02-15-2011, 10:51 PM
Awful comparison. Can i see a legit source that said this? Houston is very fluid. APS stole what i wass gonna type.

SenorGato
02-15-2011, 11:12 PM
Yet another prospect I need to see more of. He may not seem much like Gholston, but I am a little leery of Houston.

ThePudge
02-15-2011, 11:20 PM
I don't see how this comparison ever came to be. Gholston was a 4-3 end transitioning to 3-4 rush backer & he never go it. Houston has been a rush backer for three years and a very successful one at that. A great pass-rusher from the outside.

Duffman57
02-16-2011, 02:18 AM
I think you got confused where in that one threat, someone was talking about Allen Bailey or Robert Quinn or something like that, and you thought, or someone wrongly thought they were talking about Justin Houston. I remember something like that happened in a thread, where there was two different conversations going, one about Bailey/Quinn (i dont remember which) and one about houston and a guy didn't quote anyone and just said he looked like Gholston, and he was talking about the first convo.

Halsey
02-16-2011, 05:45 AM
I thought Jason Pierre-Paul was Vernon Gholston 2? I can never keep up with these meaningless comparisons.

Flaming Mo
02-16-2011, 12:31 PM
Awful comparison. Can i see a legit source that said this? Houston is very fluid. APS stole what i wass gonna type.

I think he's referring to the Jets Insider Draft Forum, I read it there too by one of the draft guys...

Crickett
02-16-2011, 12:39 PM
That is what I heard, anyone else see that??

Unless this music starts playing on the rare occasion that he can get into an opposing team's backfield, then no, I don't.

xDO0afWNH5E

ellsy82
02-16-2011, 12:45 PM
He kind of reminds me of a mix between Everette Brown and Larry English for some reason. More athletic than English, more instinctual than Brown. In any sense...I wouldn't draft him before the mid-second round.

Matthew Jones
02-16-2011, 01:12 PM
He reminds me of Quentin Groves a bit.

FUNBUNCHER
02-16-2011, 01:38 PM
...............................

FUNBUNCHER
02-16-2011, 01:38 PM
.................

FUNBUNCHER
02-16-2011, 01:42 PM
what the hell happened??

ElectricEye
02-16-2011, 01:44 PM
Gholston wasn't nearly as productive in college as Houston was at UGA.

Crazy talk.

Gholston;

2006: 49 Tackles, 18 TFL, 7.5 Sacks

2007: 37 Tackles, 15 TFL, 14.5 Sacks

Houston

2009: 39 Tackles, 15 TFL, 7.5 Sacks

2010: 67 Takcles, 18.5 TFL, 10 Sacks



Not true. People try to peg Gholston as this workout warrior who never did anything on the field coming out...but that's not the case at all.

PossibleCabbage
02-16-2011, 01:57 PM
Gholston's problem is that he was unable to transition from playing end on an even front to playing in space; if Gholston had been drafted by a 4-3 team and given a simpler set of responsibilities, things could have been totally different. Considering that Justin Houston already plays in space, that's not going to be his problem.

I don't get the comparison at all. If Houston is drafted by a 4-3 team and ends up not being able to anchor in the run game to the point where it's a liability, then maybe he'll be an inverse-Gholston.

FloridaFootball1
02-16-2011, 01:59 PM
Houston is my favorite OLB in the draft.

Flaming Mo
02-16-2011, 03:09 PM
Gholston's problem is that he cannot overpower NFL tackles with his strength yet he is too stiff to beat anyone off the edge. He really doesn't have any pass rush moves. Plus he does not have any passion for the game, plain and simple.

Now Houston mostly does his damage off the edge but from what I've seen he does it in a way that will translate to the NFL. Tackles can't get a hold of him or square him up because he knocks their hands down. He pairs that with a great first step off the edge which enables him to just be a step upfield before the tackle can get to him.

Speed kills in the NFL and Houston has that while not taking a really long way around the corner. If somebody can teach him an inside move, watch out. I dont know about Houston's passion or his work ethic but if has some resemblance of either, then he will be better than Gholston easily.

Nebula
02-16-2011, 06:14 PM
Gholston's problem is that he cannot overpower NFL tackles with his strength yet he is too stiff to beat anyone off the edge. He really doesn't have any pass rush moves. Plus he does not have any passion for the game, plain and simple.


Was pretty much going to just post this. Lol @ the people who are suggesting Gholston would have lived up to his draft status had he been drafted by a 4-3 team

SenorGato
02-16-2011, 06:30 PM
Gholston;

2006: 49 Tackles, 18 TFL, 7.5 Sacks

2007: 37 Tackles, 15 TFL, 14.5 Sacks

Houston

2009: 39 Tackles, 15 TFL, 7.5 Sacks

2010: 67 Takcles, 18.5 TFL, 10 Sacks



Not true. People try to peg Gholston as this workout warrior who never did anything on the field coming out...but that's not the case at all.

Exactly. Gholston's real biggest knock probably should have been that he's just plain soft.

Earliest I'd draft Houston is the mid second and that's only if Quinn, Kerrigan, Smith, Reed, Beal, possibly Sheard, Miller, and Ayers are off the board already.

A Perfect Score
02-16-2011, 06:32 PM
Justin Houston is a much better football player then Jeremy Beal if you ask me. Houston is superior in every single category, I can't think of one thing Beal does better.

SenorGato
02-16-2011, 06:47 PM
Justin Houston is a much better football player then Jeremy Beal if you ask me. Houston is superior in every single category, I can't think of one thing Beal does better.

I think that's up for grabs, but Beal's probably stronger and I'd even guess smarter too.

A Perfect Score
02-16-2011, 07:33 PM
I think that's up for grabs, but Beal's probably stronger and I'd even guess smarter too.

Without knowing either personally its hard to speak on who is "smarter", but Houston comes across well in his interviews and looks pretty instinctual on tape. Good awareness, tracks the QB well, looks fluid in his motions. I love his lean, he dips the shoulder well and gets down really low when coming around the edge. Neither are great at the POA but Beal has been less then impressive every time I've watched him, I honestly don't see what the fuss is about him. He's got a nice first step but his closing speed leaves alot to be desired. Beal looks alot more flat footed in space then Houston does as well, he doesn't move nearly as cleanly.

SenorGato
02-16-2011, 07:44 PM
Without knowing either personally its hard to speak on who is "smarter", but Houston comes across well in his interviews and looks pretty instinctual on tape. Good awareness, tracks the QB well, looks fluid in his motions. I love his lean, he dips the shoulder well and gets down really low when coming around the edge. Neither are great at the POA but Beal has been less then impressive every time I've watched him, I honestly don't see what the fuss is about him. He's got a nice first step but his closing speed leaves alot to be desired. Beal looks alot more flat footed in space then Houston does as well, he doesn't move nearly as cleanly.

True enough...I'm not really high on either...once Reed is gone I'm done with the DE/OLBs who might go in the top 2 rounds.

GoRavens
02-16-2011, 09:45 PM
Justin Houston reminds me a lot of James Harrison.
Not yet is he as explosive, but my word they are two scary fellas.
Intimidating, powerful, athletic, manbearpigs

Scott Wright
02-16-2011, 09:49 PM
There are teams looking at moving Houston back to defensive end...

Personally, I've never been real high on him. Looks stiff and like a DE trying to play OLB.

PossibleCabbage
02-16-2011, 09:53 PM
There are teams looking at moving Houston back to defensive end...

So there's a chance for the Inverse-Gholston!

toonsterwu
02-17-2011, 12:41 AM
Don't see this. Not saying Houston will succeed, but he's got much more burst than Gholston, IMO.

LonghornsLegend
02-17-2011, 09:09 AM
Gholston's problem is that he cannot overpower NFL tackles with his strength yet he is too stiff to beat anyone off the edge. He really doesn't have any pass rush moves. Plus he does not have any passion for the game, plain and simple.


Exactly. This is more true then anything. I'm tired of people just saying he should have been a 4-3 DE and just couldn't transition, because Gholston looked like he didn't care nor try. There is no way he should be as invisible as he is but he doesn't try, and shies away from contact.


I guarantee when he moves to a team who runs the 4-3 he'll still be garbage.

bitonti
02-17-2011, 09:28 AM
There are teams looking at moving Houston back to defensive end...

Personally, I've never been real high on him. Looks stiff and like a DE trying to play OLB.

+1 I dont see the appeal to 3-4 teams.

as a side note its become short hand to say so and so supposedly the next Gholston. Like Gholston was Demitrius Underwood. Gholston is what he is a rotational 4-3 end who can play the run and help on specials. He's not worth the 6 pick but i bet money he's in the league for 10 years. That was an especially weak draft, in another year VG is a late first round early second round pick.

FUNBUNCHER
02-17-2011, 11:35 AM
If Orakpo can transition to 34 OLB, so can Houston who's more fluid IMO and much better in space.

After Miller, no, in FRONT of Von Miller, and after Quinn, Houston is my favorite 34 OLB prospect.

People are sleeping hard on him.

J-Mike88
02-20-2011, 01:35 PM
He kind of reminds me of a mix between Everette Brown and Larry English for some reason. More athletic than English, more instinctual than Brown. In any sense...I wouldn't draft him before the mid-second round.
Uh-oh..... weren't those 2 OLBs who some Packer fans wanted instead of trading up to take Clay Matthews back in 09?

Who knew?

Ravens1991
02-20-2011, 01:54 PM
I was watching apart of the Auburn Georgia game and keying in on him. It looks like when he comes into the NFL he will be mainly a situational pass rusher to start off. Do you guys think he would be a good pick at 26?

thebow305
02-20-2011, 02:25 PM
This is just a terrible comparison. Houston is a much more fluid athlete than Gholston. I actually think these guys are polar opposites.

PossibleCabbage
02-20-2011, 02:51 PM
Personally, I've never been real high on him. Looks stiff and like a DE trying to play OLB.

Doesn't mean he can't be effective as an OLB in a 3-4. I mean, somebody just won the superbowl with Frank Zombo as ROLB. It's not as though Zombo's hips are especially fluid.

I'm personally of the mind that "being able to handle the mental/instinctive part of playing in space" is a lot more important for guys translating to OLB in the pros than "being amazing athletes." So I'm a little more confident with a guy who has done it, but might not be especially fluid, as opposed to a guy who has never done it but whose measurables suggest an amazing athlete.

The fact of the matter is, though, that since like half of the NFL is running a 3-4 now, we're going to see a lot of "DEs trying to play OLB" going forward.

LonghornsLegend
02-20-2011, 02:56 PM
+1 I dont see the appeal to 3-4 teams.

as a side note its become short hand to say so and so supposedly the next Gholston. Like Gholston was Demitrius Underwood. Gholston is what he is a rotational 4-3 end who can play the run and help on specials. He's not worth the 6 pick but i bet money he's in the league for 10 years. That was an especially weak draft, in another year VG is a late first round early second round pick.


Really? Those 24 tackles in his career must have really inspired you along the way, or is it his passion and work ethic that just scream "10 year pro"?

Halsey
02-20-2011, 06:13 PM
There are teams looking at moving Houston back to defensive end...

Personally, I've never been real high on him. Looks stiff and like a DE trying to play OLB.

Do you think he fits the Falcons defense? I'm not thrilled with the idea of him being their pick at 27, but figure it's possible.

descendency
02-20-2011, 06:34 PM
Gholston's warning signs were in college. He made a lot of plays, but most of them were right in front of him. He had a monster combine and presto... his stock soared.

I think the same could happen for Allen Bailey, but I doubt he goes that high because of Gholston. Maybe teams haven't learned their lesson though.

Ravens1991
02-20-2011, 06:35 PM
The difference is Bailey has a good attitude that Gholston lacks

FUNBUNCHER
02-20-2011, 07:34 PM
Justin Houston will start as a rookie.

GB12
02-20-2011, 07:39 PM
Justin Houston>>>Von Miller

I want him in Green Bay so badly.

FUNBUNCHER
02-20-2011, 07:58 PM
Justin Houston>>>Von Miller

I want him in Green Bay so badly.

Soooo jealous that GB is essentially in reload mode.
Houston added to the LBs GB already has would be borderline illegal.

A Perfect Score
02-20-2011, 07:59 PM
Green Bay should take Brooks Reed and then they can have the most glorious haired linebackers ever. Clay Mathews, AJ Hawk and Brooks Reed.

gsorace
02-20-2011, 08:36 PM
Green Bay should take Brooks Reed and then they can have the most glorious haired linebackers ever. Clay Mathews, AJ Hawk and Brooks Reed.

An all Aryan LB core

PossibleCabbage
02-20-2011, 08:42 PM
An all Aryan LB core

If Brandon Chillar starts ahead of Barnett or Bishop, then you may be correct because technically "Aryan" first referred to an Indo-Iranian language group, and Chillar is of Indian (dot, not feather) descent.

87Canes
02-20-2011, 11:44 PM
Houston has more experience in the hybrid role than Gholston did coming out of school.

He's a better athlete than Gholston as well.

A Perfect Score
02-20-2011, 11:51 PM
Houston has more experience in the hybrid role than Gholston did coming out of school.

He's a better athlete than Gholston as well.

I don't think you're going to find many people who are going to agree with that part of your post. Bust or not, Gholston was a freak and a hell of an athletic specimen.

FUNBUNCHER
02-21-2011, 06:47 AM
I don't think you're going to find many people who are going to agree with that part of your post. Bust or not, Gholston was a freak and a hell of an athletic specimen.

WHen I hear someone say Houston is a better athlete than Gholston, I think about agility, fluidity and change of direction ability, all of which IMO Houston has Gholston beat.

In the weight room, with their shirts off or running the 40, of course Gholston is the champ.

87Canes
02-21-2011, 10:08 PM
I don't think you're going to find many people who are going to agree with that part of your post. Bust or not, Gholston was a freak and a hell of an athletic specimen.

Gholston was built like an animal but Houston is an actual TRUE athlete. Houston can drop back into coverage and actually move. Gholston just looked the part aka popcorn muscles.

87Canes
02-21-2011, 10:18 PM
WHen I hear someone say Houston is a better athlete than Gholston, I think about agility, fluidity and change of direction ability, all of which IMO Houston has Gholston beat.

In the weight room, with their shirts off or running the 40, of course Gholston is the champ.

Exactly. There's a difference between being an athlete and being built like the Incredible Hulk.

CaneBang
02-21-2011, 10:21 PM
I like Houston a lot more than other people. He's 5x the "football player" that Gholston will ever be, and I'm comparing that from a college to current pro standpoint. Houston knows how to get to the quarterback besides pure strength and speed. He knows angles and how to use his hands and leverage....Gholston can't even spell leverage.

I wouldn't be surprised if Houston ends up being a Top 20 pick, he's going to be a stud at the next level and will do a lot at the combine.

brasho
02-22-2011, 06:53 AM
Exactly. There's a difference between being an athlete and being built like the Incredible Hulk.

THe problem for Gholston is not that he isn't athletic, he's too soft for DE and too stupid for LB. He is extremely athletic, hips and all. His 3 cone and 20 yard shuttle were very good.

FUNBUNCHER
02-22-2011, 07:28 AM
THe problem for Gholston is not that he isn't athletic, he's too soft for DE and too stupid for LB. He is extremely athletic, hips and all. His 3 cone and 20 yard shuttle were very good.

I dunno. Gholston looks musclebound to me and not the best at stopping and starting to run in the opposite direction.
His problems IMO are both physical and mental.

87Canes
02-23-2011, 07:53 PM
THe problem for Gholston is not that he isn't athletic, he's too soft for DE and too stupid for LB. He is extremely athletic, hips and all. His 3 cone and 20 yard shuttle were very good.

Gholston wasn't the smartest football guy and in a Rex Ryan scheme, he had to be at least "football smart" which he wasn't...

I'm really worried that Allen Bailey is going to TEST very well but not be able to translate measureables into NFL production. I hope he's working with a good DL coach right now that will help him improve those weaknesses.

georgiafan
02-25-2011, 10:00 AM
Houston isnt gonna blow people away at the combine like Gholston did. Also Houston has already played in a 3-4 from a coach who spent a lot of time in the NFL.

descendency
02-25-2011, 10:10 AM
Gholston wasn't the smartest football guy and in a Rex Ryan scheme, he had to be at least "football smart" which he wasn't...

That's 100% true about every team.

edit: Houston was the best player on a less than stellar Georgia team. (to put it nicely)

I really like him if he's around at the bottom of the first. (I don't like him where I see some other sites mocking him in the top 12 or so... D:)

Zello
02-25-2011, 10:22 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YE2y_ypR9wQ

Watch that clip and tell me Gholston didn't have any impressive college production.

brasho
02-28-2011, 12:53 PM
I'm thinking that measurable-wise, Houston is even more impressive than Gholston. Houston weighed in at 270 and just smoked a 4.64...not bad.

bitonti
02-28-2011, 01:06 PM
similar to gholston in that neither can stand up and play OLB... and both are probably only 4-3 system players. but in general i don't like players being compared to Gholston. Every player is different.

FUNBUNCHER
02-28-2011, 01:29 PM
If stiffy Orakpo can play 34 OLB, a guy like Houston should easily be able to make the transition.

A 34 OLB should drop well enough to give an offense a true coverage look on a TE, but that shouldn't really be his main responsibility.

bucfan12
02-28-2011, 01:39 PM
I think the Houston to Dwight Freeney is a much better comparison here.

Many thought Houston was around the low to mid 250's range at 6'3. He shows up at 270 lbs and outdid guys like Bowers and Quinn in the bench press of 225 by 10 reps.

He's quick, strong and is a football player. Watch the film on this guy. He will be a great RDE in a 4-3 or a strong side 3-4 olb.

Did this performance at the combine, along with the tape increase is stock? Quite possbily. many had him lasting in the mid-to late 20's or end of 1st round. Now I think he can range anywhere from 12-21. Tampa nor KC will let him fall any further.

bucfan12
02-28-2011, 01:40 PM
Also, the fact that I am just amazed about how great this d-line class is this year. DE and DT are stocked and atleast 12 DLINEMAN will be taken in round 1.

A Perfect Score
02-28-2011, 02:32 PM
If stiffy Orakpo can play 34 OLB, a guy like Houston should easily be able to make the transition.

A 34 OLB should drop well enough to give an offense a true coverage look on a TE, but that shouldn't really be his main responsibility.

What transition? Houston has spent his entire time at Georgia playing OLB. If there is any transition, it will be him moving to DE, not the other way around.

TACKLE
02-28-2011, 02:34 PM
What transition? Houston has spent his entire time at Georgia playing OLB. If there is any transition, it will be him moving to DE, not the other way around.

He has? What about the two years at Georgia when he played DE?

descendency
02-28-2011, 03:13 PM
I think the Houston to Dwight Freeney is a much better comparison here.

Freeney ran in the 4.3s

brasho
02-28-2011, 04:27 PM
I think the Houston to Dwight Freeney is a much better comparison here.

Many thought Houston was around the low to mid 250's range at 6'3. He shows up at 270 lbs and outdid guys like Bowers and Quinn in the bench press of 225 by 10 reps.

He's quick, strong and is a football player. Watch the film on this guy. He will be a great RDE in a 4-3 or a strong side 3-4 olb.

Did this performance at the combine, along with the tape increase is stock? Quite possbily. many had him lasting in the mid-to late 20's or end of 1st round. Now I think he can range anywhere from 12-21. Tampa nor KC will let him fall any further.

You want a comparison to Freeney and the closest to come out in years is Dontay Moch of this year.

Freeney was 6'1 260-something and ran 4.38-hand-timed

Moch is 6'1 248 and ran 4.44 -electronic (which could be as low as 4.35 hand-timed, depending on who is doing it).

I like Moch as a RDE in a Tampa-style one gap defense. He's already heavier than Robert Mathis is and not far from Freeney. He is extremely stout as a bullrusher for his weight, if he could only improve on setting the edge he could do it.

Big Bird
02-28-2011, 07:26 PM
I really don't get how this comparison is that off. Honestly, people are lying to themselves if they think Justin Houston is fluid in the hips. Just because he played in a 3-4 on the edge doesn't mean he is good in space. In fact, if you watched the Combine today, he was below average (at best). He's just clumsy in space to be honest; he looks lost.

Now, let's look at the measurables:
Gholston: 6-3
Houston: 6-2 1/2

Gholston: 266 lbs.
Houston: 270 lbs.

Gholston: 4.65 Forty
Houston: 4.68 Forty

Gholston: 37 Bench Reps
Houston: 30 Bench Reps

Gholston: 35 1/2 Inch Vertical Jump
Houston: 36 1/2 Inch Vertical Jump

Gholston: 10'05" Broad Jump
Houston: 10'05" Broad Jump

Gholston: 4.40 20-Yard Shuttle
Houston: 4.37 20-Yard Shuttle

Anybody else see that? Basically the exact same across the board.

If anything, I think Houston hurt himself today if anything. He can't play in space at the next level. He's going to go 1st Round, just like Gholston. And, maybe a team will be smart with him, and he'll get to play with his hand in the dirt and his job will be to get up field. But, if the same thing happens to him like did with Gholston, getting caught up in a scheme that doesn't fit him, he'll be screwed.

Don't let a college position fool somebody. Just because somebody is a Free Safety in college, can't mean he can do it in the NFL. Same with an 3-4 Outside Linebacker in college. Houston is very tight in the hips and struggles to keep his feet. That spells disaster for an NFL 3-4 Outside Linebacker.

JDB7821
03-01-2011, 11:01 AM
A lot of people criticizing Houston as an OLB don't seem to realize that a lot of his sacks, even this past year in the "3-4" came with his hand in the dirt. His lack of fluidity in the ball drills only further proved that. People that have pegged him as a 3-4 outside linebacker, I believe, are wrong. I think he's strictly a 4-3 end.

BroadwayJoe10
03-01-2011, 11:55 AM
I really don't get how this comparison is that off. Honestly, people are lying to themselves if they think Justin Houston is fluid in the hips. Just because he played in a 3-4 on the edge doesn't mean he is good in space. In fact, if you watched the Combine today, he was below average (at best). He's just clumsy in space to be honest; he looks lost.

Now, let's look at the measurables:
Gholston: 6-3
Houston: 6-2 1/2

Gholston: 266 lbs.
Houston: 270 lbs.

Gholston: 4.65 Forty
Houston: 4.68 Forty

Gholston: 37 Bench Reps
Houston: 30 Bench Reps

Gholston: 35 1/2 Inch Vertical Jump
Houston: 36 1/2 Inch Vertical Jump

Gholston: 10'05" Broad Jump
Houston: 10'05" Broad Jump

Gholston: 4.40 20-Yard Shuttle
Houston: 4.37 20-Yard Shuttle

Anybody else see that? Basically the exact same across the board.

If anything, I think Houston hurt himself today if anything. He can't play in space at the next level. He's going to go 1st Round, just like Gholston. And, maybe a team will be smart with him, and he'll get to play with his hand in the dirt and his job will be to get up field. But, if the same thing happens to him like did with Gholston, getting caught up in a scheme that doesn't fit him, he'll be screwed.

Don't let a college position fool somebody. Just because somebody is a Free Safety in college, can't mean he can do it in the NFL. Same with an 3-4 Outside Linebacker in college. Houston is very tight in the hips and struggles to keep his feet. That spells disaster for an NFL 3-4 Outside Linebacker.

I fail to see the point in making the comparison to hurt his stock. Gholston's numbers were pretty elite for his size, but his problem wasn't that he didn't have the measurables, but that he was afraid of contact and didn't have the football IQ to play 34 OLB.

If Houston had the exact same body and measurables as Gholston, but all he changed was his desire, heart and football acumen, that could easily be the difference between Big Vern's 0 sacks or double digit sacks.

*Yes, the system will definitely play a part, but if he fails it's not gonna be due to physical inability. He may not look super fluid, be he clearly has the dexterity as shown by the agility drills.

FUNBUNCHER
03-01-2011, 12:36 PM
Whatever.

Gholston is a failure in the NFL not because he can't cover, it's because he can't rush the passer either.

Gholston and Houston may be similar athletes, (still think Houston is much more fluid than Gholston's best fantasy), but IMO they aren't similar football players.

Rush the passer, stack the edge on run plays, give a decent coverage look against the TE and be able to drop 10-15 yards in the flat. That's a thumbnail sketch of most 34 OLBs.

What are people seeing from Houston that doesn't match up with playing outside in a 34??

Orakpo really can't cover, but he still drops occasionally on passing downs and doesn't kill the defense.

IMO Houston is a much better prospect than Orakpo.

Big Bird
03-01-2011, 01:22 PM
Houston isn't even close to Orakpo. Orakpo was an elite prospect.

Orakpo was stronger, more technically sound, and much better in the hips. Houston is stiff and has clumsy feet.

You're taking such a simple, blinded look at the position, you completely fail to realize there is much more that goes into it. Houston needs to be a Defensive End in a 4-3 at the next level.

FUNBUNCHER
03-01-2011, 01:43 PM
Houston isn't even close to Orakpo. Orakpo was an elite prospect.

Orakpo was stronger, more technically sound, and much better in the hips. Houston is stiff and has clumsy feet.

You're taking such a simple, blinded look at the position, you completely fail to realize there is much more that goes into it. Houston needs to be a Defensive End in a 4-3 at the next level.

Orakpo is stiff (hips), meaning he has difficulty turning to run if the play is going away from him. I've watched him since the first day he arrived for Skins minicamp and in every game since. (Skinsfan here- duh!!)
He has limited pass rushing moves from a two point stance and is still not comfortable playing LB. So what, Orakpo can bench 500#?? Doesn't really help much when he's hooked by an OT and waits for the ref to call a holding penalty. Not surprising since he was primarily a DE at Texas.

Houston is bigger than Rak was coming out of Texas, equal speed, height, maybe Rak is a little bit stronger.
But Orakpo wasn't light years ahead of him as a 34 OLB prospect, in fact I think Houston has an advantage having played the position in college and has more experience making plays in space, which Orakpo absolutely struggles to do.

Some of you have this rigid profile of what a 34 OLB should look like and be able to do, but when I look around the league I see a mix of players with varying skillsets.
Houston can rush from a standing position or a three point, is functionally strong at the point, and can make plays on the run, going forward and backwards.

Big Bird
03-01-2011, 04:15 PM
I have no idea what you're watching, because Orakpo shows solid hips and makes plays in space, whereas Houston is stiff and doesn't make any plays in space.

Either that, or you don't know how to evaluate...

FUNBUNCHER
03-01-2011, 04:58 PM
I have no idea what you're watching, because Orakpo shows solid hips and makes plays in space, whereas Houston is stiff and doesn't make any plays in space.

Either that, or you don't know how to evaluate...


Great retort. Your opinion = FACT.

To say Rak makes plays in space, when?? How?? What game?? Against who??

Rak can chase and run behind the LOS, but downfield after the ballcarrier, he's invisible.
He's a nice piece, but don't hype the guy like he's CMIII to 'prove' a point about Houston.

My opinion, having watched Houston at UGA and Orakpo in two seasons with the Redskins, that Houston is the better 34 OLB prospect; more instinctive, a more natural pass rusher with better hand usage and more variety of moves.

Calling Houston strictly a 43 D-end in the pros is shortsighted.

bucfan12
03-02-2011, 10:01 AM
To compare combine results with Houston and Gholston doesn't exactly make him the same player or same outcome. Character and ability to play the game are what is key.

I still believe Gholston would have been more successful if he wasn't out of position. He is a 4-3 DE, not a 3-4 DE or OLB and couldn't transition. Coaches think they can take any Pass rush DE and turn them into a 3-4 olb. It's quite tough to make that transition for some.

Houston was quite versatile as he played with both his hand in the dirt and standing and he was a force to be wreckoned with on Saturdays. 18 tfl and 10 sacks. He has tremendous strength and can get to the qb.

PossibleCabbage
03-02-2011, 10:18 AM
Honestly what's more important than raw athletic ability when it comes to 3-4 OLBs is assignment surety and consistently high effort. Being able to rush the passer helps too. The reason Gholston didn't work out is because, while he had athletic ability, he didn't have the other three things.

Nalej
03-02-2011, 10:36 AM
Did this performance at the combine, along with the tape increase is stock? Quite possbily. many had him lasting in the mid-to late 20's or end of 1st round. Now I think he can range anywhere from 12-21. Tampa nor KC will let him fall any further.

I agree. I'd love him in NE at 17 if Kerrigan is off the board

Iamcanadian
03-02-2011, 11:02 AM
He weighed in at 270lbs and players tend to gain 10-15lbs in the NFL. That would make him a 280-285lb OLB. I really believe his career lies as a DE in a 4-3 defense.