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DeathbyStat
02-18-2011, 09:14 AM
Colin Kaepernick Vs Cam Newton


Can someone explain to the me the difference between these two prospects?

Both are similar in size and speed but both played in a gimmick college offense

Cam played against much better competition but only did it for one year.One could argue Kaepernick throws the football better.

I not really a big fan of either as both are raw developmental guys that i wouldn't touch until at least the second or third round but I'm just confused as to why Cam is seen by some as a 10 pick and Colin as a 2nd-4th rounder.

A Perfect Score
02-18-2011, 09:17 AM
Colin Kaepernick Vs Cam Newton


Can someone explain to the me the difference between these two prospects?

Both are similar in size and speed but both played in a gimmick college offense

Cam played against much better competition but only did it for one year.One could argue Kaepernick throws the football better.

I not really a big fan of either as both are raw developmental guys that i wouldn't touch until at least the second or third round but I'm just confused as to why Cam is seen by some as a 10 pick and Colin as a 2nd-4th rounder.

SEC SPEEEEEEEEEDZZZZZZ

You'd be shocked what a Heisman and a National Championship can do for your draft stock these days...

Ok, all Newton hating aside, his throwing motion is much cleaner then Kaepernick's and he's built much more solidly. If I had to guess which one would be a bigger running threat in the NFL, it would be Cam. Once the ball is out of their hands I wouldn't deny that Kaepernick throws a nicer ball, but he's got that wonky throwing motion whereas Newton has a clean, over the top delivery. It really boils down to that if you ask me.

bored of education
02-18-2011, 09:35 AM
prepare to royal thread merge

MaybeDavis
02-18-2011, 09:40 AM
Both didnt came out of a Pro Style O, and it's not sure how they go through their reads. Without that, I just see a raw footwork at Cam, i dont know about Kaepernick's footwork,. But that could be fixed by a good Coach. The rest is just Cam. He got all the tools and i think he's better in all of the other category's. He could be ready to play early (maybe day 1 but I think at half of the Saison is gone). But ealier than Kaepernick for sure i think.

DeathbyStat
02-18-2011, 09:40 AM
SEC SPEEEEEEEEEDZZZZZZ

You'd be shocked what a Heisman and a National Championship can do for your draft stock these days...

Ok, all Newton hating aside, his throwing motion is much cleaner then Kaepernick's and he's built much more solidly. If I had to guess which one would be a bigger running threat in the NFL, it would be Cam. Once the ball is out of their hands I wouldn't deny that Kaepernick throws a nicer ball, but he's got that wonky throwing motion whereas Newton has a clean, over the top delivery. It really boils down to that if you ask me.

Good answer, come to think of it Newton's delivery is better. I don't really get the Cam hype but i would list him as a better prospect than Tebow last year. I think on a whole even having this discussion shows that the QB class this year is very weak.

I think Cam and Colin success will depend greatly on what team drafts them. I know you could say that prospects every year but these two guys really need to go to a team that can try to built an offense around their strengths instead of trying to fit them into a system thats allready in place.

If I was a team like the vikings i'd rather take a chance on Colin later than draft Cam high in the first round.

Halsey
02-18-2011, 09:44 AM
Cam Newton dominated in his one year at Auburn. I wonder what he would have done if he spent 5 years at the same school, like Kaepernick did.

A Perfect Score
02-18-2011, 09:45 AM
Cam Newton dominated in his one year at Auburn. I wonder what he would have done if he spent 5 years at the same school, like Kaepernick did.

Probably gotten kicked out for cheating.

Halsey
02-18-2011, 09:57 AM
Probably gotten kicked out for cheating.

I'm all for taking character into consideration, but it's not like every star QB is an angel.

http://assets.nydailynews.com/img/2008/10/25/amd_roethlisberger.jpghttp://www.nndb.com/people/225/000026147/brett-favre-1.jpghttp://assets.nydailynews.com/img/2009/11/01/amd_eagles_michael_vick.jpg

I'm in the camp that thinks Newton's off field issues won't necessarily stop him from being a star QB.

SimonRath
02-18-2011, 10:02 AM
I personally dont buy into Cam Newton having severe off field issues. He was very young and did something very stupid, its not like we all havent done something we regret. Its not like he raped someone or has drinking problems and goes and gets drunk and drives every weekend. Hes a good kid who made a couple mistakes, give him a break.

descendency
02-18-2011, 10:05 AM
I'll tell you why...

bigger, faster, stronger.

Newton may be slightly raw-er at QB, but he's a better athlete 10 times over.

DiG
02-18-2011, 10:09 AM
1. Newton is a good 25 lbs heavier than Kaepernick.

2. Kaepernick struggles with throws in the middle of the field. Doesn't read the safety well.

3. Kaepernick, even with all his experience, is behind Newton mechanically. He has a much longer release due in part with his laziness holding the ball. Doesnt consistently set his feet and struggles turning his body towards the target to get a stronger more accurate throw. He doesnt step into his throws like Cam does. With that said, he is still surprisingly accurate, especially his senior year compared to previous seasons.

Kaepernick is without a doubt an intriguing and physically gifted player. The upside is very high in the right system with the right coaching and his athleticism will bail him out but even with 4 years starting he has alot to learn.

Packfan7
02-18-2011, 11:02 AM
I'll tell you why...

bigger, faster, stronger.

Newton may be slightly raw-er at QB, but he's a better athlete 10 times over.

Considering Kaepernick was a 3 year varsity starter in 3 sports in the largest highschool division in California, was an all-state selection in all three, was drafted by the Cubs two years ago, and either holds or is in the top 5 of just about every dual threat record in NCAA history.....I would say your comment "he's a better athlete 10 times over" is a bit of an exageration there.

Black Bolt
02-18-2011, 11:18 AM
Considering Kaepernick was a 3 year varsity starter in 3 sports in the largest highschool division in California, was an all-state selection in all three, was drafted by the Cubs two years ago, and either holds or is in the top 5 of just about every dual threat record in NCAA history.....I would say your comment "he's a better athlete 10 times over" is a bit of an exageration there.

I agree, BOTH are excellent athletes. Cam is a more feared runner who can beat defenders both with elusiveness and power whereas Kaeperick does it with speed only.

Cam has better tools overall. He also has a more compact and quick delivery. Both have mechanical issues and both throw off their back foot too often. Cam faced better comp, but Kaeperick has more experience.

In short, it comes down to elite physical tools vs. very good physical tools and a cleaner release.

BigBanger
02-18-2011, 11:30 AM
I personally dont buy into Cam Newton having severe off field issues. He was very young and did something very stupid,
Which incident are you referring to? There's quite a few things he did that were very stupid.

Hes a good kid who made a couple mistakes, give him a break.
His track record proves anything but a good kid. He's a cheater. A thief. A liar. A scumbag. He's an entitled prick with a terrible father giving him terrible advice and teaching him how to do everything the wrong way. He's had enough breaks. He's not in a position to demand our sympathy. He's doing everything for the money, if that wasn't already evident.

A Perfect Score
02-18-2011, 12:06 PM
It's been a weird month, Ive sided with BigBanger in 3 or 4 threads. What has NFLDC come to I wonder? He's right though, Newton's track record suggests anything but a good kid, I'm sorry. If you want to argue he's matured then alright, but the kid is far from clean. He'll have to answer for his wrongdoings in interviews, that will ultimately decide where he goes. Also, at Dirty Thirty, I understand Kaepernick has some issues throwing across the middle of the field, but so does Newton. His short and mid range accuracy, especially on crossing routes is very suspect. He throws a pretty deep ball, but the guy has next to no touch on anything other then a fade. I'll take Kaepernick's accuracy over Newton's at this point.

Babylon
02-18-2011, 01:05 PM
Along with Jake Locker this is probably the best group of athletes i can ever remember at that position. Would probably have to look at 1999 when you had McNabb, Akili Smith and Culpepper for a comaprison but i think this group is more athletic overall.

the natural
02-18-2011, 01:10 PM
I don't see Newton as being terribly immoral. Most of the stuff he got in trouble for was pretty trivial. What concerns me is that he got caught so often. I think a lot of people will bend the law from time to time, particularly if they are young and filled with confidence. But you have to be smart enough to cover your tracks at least.

FUNBUNCHER
02-18-2011, 01:23 PM
Cheater?? Thief?? Liar?? Scumbag???


BB you really don't know or haven't known many D1 scholarship football players. As far as grading college football lowlifes, Cam simply isn't on that level.

I've known some flat out THUGS who were walking around college campuses, guys who were gang bangers or who mugged people for kicks in HS but never got caught.
That's far from who Cam Newton is as a person.

I'd call him a knucklehead, a **** up at Florida, but IMO too many people are overemphasizing the significance any of Cam's past incidents will have during the scouting process and ultimately where he goes in the draft.

If Cam goes top 5- 10, I hope some of you will accept that cheating on tests and getting caught, buying a stolen computer and transferring out of a school really don't carry much weight with most NFL teams if you are a 'special' football player who's considered a leader and a winner.

CK and Cam are actually very close as athletes, and other than Cam's level of competition against Colin's 4 years at Nevada, also Kaepernick's funky throwing motion, I think they play a similar game.

descendency
02-18-2011, 01:34 PM
If Cam Newton runs the same time as CK, it will be at 20-30 LBs heavier.

Black Bolt
02-18-2011, 01:53 PM
Which incident are you referring to? There's quite a few things he did that were very stupid.


His track record proves anything but a good kid. He's a cheater. A thief. A liar. A scumbag. He's an entitled prick with a terrible father giving him terrible advice and teaching him how to do everything the wrong way. He's had enough breaks. He's not in a position to demand our sympathy. He's doing everything for the money, if that wasn't already evident.

Wait a minute- A scumbag? Give me a break. There have been plenty prospect that have done WAY worse!!

BigBanger
02-18-2011, 02:17 PM
Cheater?? Thief?? Liar?? Scumbag???


BB you really don't know or haven't known many D1 scholarship football players. As far as grading college football lowlifes, Cam simply isn't on that level.
What part of getting kicked out of Florida for cheating on tests (on 3 separate occasions) makes you put question marks after cheater? Does he have to cheat on the wonderlic too? What part of stealing someone's computer makes you question if he's not a thief? What part of tossing said stolen computer out of a window and then lying to police makes him an honest person? What part of that doesn't tally up to being a scumbag? People say, "Is he mature?" He's a ******* moron. Forget about maturity. He's a dumbass. He makes Frank Gore look like an honor student.


Wait a minute- A scumbag? Give me a break. There have been plenty prospect that have done WAY worse!!
Cam Newton ain't the first player I've called POS or whatever derivative I so choose. You should have heard me talk about Chris Henry. You should have heard me laugh at his demise.

WCH
02-18-2011, 02:20 PM
Along with Jake Locker this is probably the best group of athletes i can ever remember at that position. Would probably have to look at 1999 when you had McNabb, Akili Smith and Culpepper for a comaprison but i think this group is more athletic overall.

I'd take 99 over this year. In addition to those guys, you had Cade McNown running a (then fast) 4.7 forty and drawing comparisons to Steve Young. Even in the NFL, in 10 games with the Bears in 2000, McNown rushed for 326 yards and 3 TDs while averaging 6.5 yards per carry. His passing left much to be desired, however.

Tim Couch was the only real dud as an athlete. He also had the benefit of playing for Mike Leach before we all figured out that his offense makes everybody look good.

San Diego Chicken
02-18-2011, 02:30 PM
I agree with Halsey. If you can play, people will get over the fact that you're a scumbag in the NFL. Mike Vick should be banned from the NFL and locked away for a long time. But he can play, so people essentially turn a blind eye. Cam Newton is not nearly as bad of a person as Vick is, I don't think so anyway, so even if legal matters spring up in the NFL it'll be secondary to whether or not he can play the game at a high level.

As far as Newton vs. Kaepernick, I just don't think Kaepernick's game translates. He's an athlete playing QB. Newton is too in some ways, but he has a better feel. Things seem to come pretty naturally to him as a football player.

brasho
02-18-2011, 02:31 PM
I'll tell you why...

bigger, faster, stronger.

Newton may be slightly raw-er at QB, but he's a better athlete 10 times over.

Bigger, yes as in heavier but they are pretty much the same height, faster, no, stronger, a tad bit in terms of arm strength but not by much, he is a stronger runner, but CK is niftier and quicker and that will come in more handily in the NFL than being able to overpower a defender in the openfield.

SeanTaylorRIP
02-18-2011, 02:35 PM
Well the size is actually a big factor in the NFL. I'm not sure I trust Colin's wiry frame taking hits. Playing in the WAC Kaepernick was playing a ton of undersized backers and lineman, Newton in the SEC was getting jumped on every week by potential first round defenders.

brasho
02-18-2011, 02:37 PM
I personally dont buy into Cam Newton having severe off field issues. He was very young and did something very stupid, its not like we all havent done something we regret. Its not like he raped someone or has drinking problems and goes and gets drunk and drives every weekend. Hes a good kid who made a couple mistakes, give him a break.

How many times did he get caught cheating? Getting booted from a school that regularly recruits straight from the list of the FBI's Most Wanted is a feat in itself.

Then the BS fiasco involving his dad and Mississippi St. and that the fact that his dad is a knucklehead and will likely be hanging over his shoulder.. you don't think these are issues?

And he's NOT a kid. Quit calling these young adults "kids". He is an adult and he's made some very stupid decisions as an adult and anybody that doesn't think that it could possibly be an issue and would blindly fork over millions of dollars shouldn't have anything to do with the NFL... or work for the Raiders.

I'm not saying Newton's character is so bad that he shouldn't be drafted. I'm saying that his character needs to much more deeply scrutinized to make the decision to take the guy extremely highly.

SolidGold
02-18-2011, 02:40 PM
My issue with Newton is the whole Auburn pay for play scandal. If Mallet can be accused by the whole "where there's smoke there's fire" philosophy about his drug use than it should be applied to Newton as well.

I would be interested to see his college transcripts at Florida, Blinn Jr College and Auburn. His Blinn Jr College transcripts would be most interesting because he was basically under the radar for a year, during that time did he put any effort into his education in order to ensure he would be academically eligible to transfer to a school of his choice.

brasho
02-18-2011, 03:08 PM
IAs far as Newton vs. Kaepernick, I just don't think Kaepernick's game translates. He's an athlete playing QB. Newton is too in some ways, but he has a better feel. Things seem to come pretty naturally to him as a football player.

Wow, you must be psychic, because you can establish which player has a better "feel". Or maybe a masseuse.


Here's an honest analysis of a guy that really believes in CK.

As far as size they are both in the 6'5 range and this is a push. As for weight, Newton is far more massive and this will help him in the pocket like Roethlisberger and Freeman. CK is much lighter and he will show nimbler more active feet which will serve him better as a runner when plays break down.

As for arm strength, Newton's seems to be elite. He has a nice motion and a pretty quick release. CK has near elite arm strength. He drops the ball down at times to sternum level before bringing it back up to throw. Because of this hitch his release is not as fast as Newton's but it is not nearly as bad as people seem to suggest and should be shortened with time and some work.

As runners, Newton is much more powerful but not as fast as Kaepernick. Kaepernic has elite speed and quickness for a QB. Newton's running style of taking on collisions with LBs and DBs is not conducive for the NFL.

As for reading defenses, nobody can point to CK's experience in Nevada's pistol as reason to show Newton has ANY advantage. Newton's offense was equally or even more gimmicky and he spent far less time in it. What Newton did this past season is nothing short of extraordinary... while what Kaepernick did the past 4 years is equally extraordinary. The 4 straight 2000 yard passing seasons, 3 straight 1000 yard rushing seasons, the all-time record for rushing TDs by a QB, the 82 TD passes to 24 INTs, the bowl games and their experiences, his 4000+ career yards rushing and nearly 10,000 yards passing... it is simply amazing. His last season is very comparable to Newton's as well. Only one other time in NCAA history has a player threw and run for 20 TDs in a season... and Newton and Kaepernick both did it this past season. Kaepernick ALSO threw for 3000 yards as well this past season. It could be argued that CK's last season was as impressive as Newton's, if not for level of competition.... which leads me to.

Level of competition-it's true, it doesn't get any better than the SEC, but when it comes to making QBs, it doesn't really matter what conference a guy plays in, it all comes down to whether he can play the game. If being a QB in the SEC was all it took to be a great NFL QB, JaMarcus Russell, Matt Flynn, Matt Jones, Chris Leak, Rohann Davey, Brodie Croyle, Quincy Carter, Jason Campbell, Jimmy Clausen, and Matt Mauck all would have led their NFL teams to the playoffs this past season. You can't discount the numerous players from small schools that have been great QBs and won Super Bowls. The point is, both players have proved themselves against good and bad competition.

As for work ethic, from what I understand, CK is an extremely hardworker... and that in itself is one of the most important traits a QB can have. I don't know about Newton. I know he wants to win and with the game on the line he is a true player, but I wonder how hard he'll work when I see his myriad of times caught cheating, the stolent laptop, and the Mississippi St. scandal. Is he always looking for an easy way out... or is he genuinely stupid? These are big factors for anybody wanting to find a franchise QB.

For the record, I really like CK... but I have Newton a little ahead of him, warts and all because of his throwing motion and because he was such a clutch performer on the big stage. Anytime you take a QB high you are taking a risk (except for Andrew Luck, like I stated two years ago when I declared him the best NFL QB in college football) because there are so many unknown variables.

yourfavestoner
02-18-2011, 03:24 PM
How many times did he get caught cheating? Getting booted from a school that regularly recruits straight from the list of the FBI's Most Wanted is a feat in itself.

Then the BS fiasco involving his dad and Mississippi St. and that the fact that his dad is a knucklehead and will likely be hanging over his shoulder.. you don't think these are issues?

And he's NOT a kid. Quit calling these young adults "kids". He is an adult and he's made some very stupid decisions as an adult and anybody that doesn't think that it could possibly be an issue and would blindly fork over millions of dollars shouldn't have anything to do with the NFL... or work for the Raiders.

I'm not saying Newton's character is so bad that he shouldn't be drafted. I'm saying that his character needs to much more deeply scrutinized to make the decision to take the guy extremely highly.

I don't understand how anyone feels like they can have any sort of definitive opinion on his character, especially because we don't have a definitive account of what happened with any of his incidents. And I see both sides of the argument.

Like the natural said, the big deal isn't the acts he committed, but rather how often he got caught. The acts themselves are relatively minor. If we went on a witch hunt for every player who accepted stolen goods, cheated, or accepted money while in college then the talent landscape of the NFL would be a barren wasteland. Getting caught repeatedly like that, though? That's the troubling part.

I dunno. If I met 19 year old me, I'd punch him in the face for being such a jackass. I think you'd be surprised at how humbling an experience it would be going from Tim Tebow's successor to Blinn College.

brasho
02-18-2011, 03:27 PM
I don't understand how anyone feels like they can have any sort of definitive opinion on his character, especially because we don't have a definitive account of what happened with any of his incidents.
.

Isn't that pretty much what I said? I don't know exactly what happened, but you can't just throw him down the toilet and say "you won't draft him" nor can you blindly apply the "boys will be boys" attitude and think he has outgrown his stupidness-without doing much more work.

nikkayeah
02-18-2011, 03:28 PM
okay so he was in possession of a stolen laptop. but do you guys really think he's gonna need a stolen laptop ever again? he's gonna have all the money in the world to get as many laptops as he wants.

yourfavestoner
02-18-2011, 03:30 PM
Isn't that pretty much what I said? I don't know exactly what happened, but you can't just throw him down the toilet and say "you won't draft him" nor can you blindly apply the "boys will be boys" attitude and think he has outgrown his stupidness-without doing much more work.

Yeah, I was agreeing with you. Sorry if I wasn't very clear with that post.

Nikkayeah's point is good as well, and it's one that's been made on here before. Most of his transgressions appear to have had a monetary influence, and it's not going to be like the guy is hurting for money anymore.

TACKLE
02-18-2011, 03:48 PM
I've said this before and I'll say it again: character concerns and off-field issues are only only concerns and issues if NFL teams feel that they are a sign that a players actions could become a negative or destructive force for a team. As YFS has mentioned, for us as fans to make decisive character judgments on prospects is ludicrous because A. the information we have is very limited and B. we don't personally know these people.

But I will say, I have a hard time believing that Newton's transgressions at Florida and allegations at Auburn are an indicator that Cam Newton will commit illegal acts that will cost him games and will negatively effect whatever team drafts him. I just don't see it.

the natural
02-18-2011, 04:05 PM
Biggest problem for Newton is that he is going to have to deal with these issues in interviews. That puts a negative spin on the whole thing that makes it difficult to come across well. Remember he is going to be interviewed constantly over the period of a month or so. It's going to become a drag dealing with and hurt him regardless of what he says in response.

prock
02-18-2011, 04:11 PM
What part of getting kicked out of Florida for cheating on tests (on 3 separate occasions) makes you put question marks after cheater? Does he have to cheat on the wonderlic too? What part of stealing someone's computer makes you question if he's not a thief? What part of tossing said stolen computer out of a window and then lying to police makes him an honest person? What part of that doesn't tally up to being a scumbag? People say, "Is he mature?" He's a ******* moron. Forget about maturity. He's a dumbass. He makes Frank Gore look like an honor student.



Cam Newton ain't the first player I've called POS or whatever derivative I so choose. You should have heard me talk about Chris Henry. You should have heard me laugh at his demise.

He didn't steal a computer. He got kicked out for cheating and learned that he isn't entitled. You are supremely ignorant on this topic, you don't even know what happened in this situations based on your descriptions.

DenverFan1974
02-18-2011, 04:32 PM
Full Disclosure: I went to NEVADA (many years ago) and I am a HUGE fan of Colin Kaepernick. Not because he plays football but because he might be the most genuine, nice and thoughtful kid to every play at NEVADA. I thought I'd grace you all with (cough, cough) my very biased brilliance. I'm not expert but if I were this is how I'd break down my review of both players.

Here is how I compare the two by scoring 1-10 (10 being the highest):

Colin Kaepernick (131 out of 150 for a score) - He is the only player in the history of DI college football to pass for 10,000 yards and rush for 4,000 yards in a career. The only player to pass for 2,000 and rush for 1,000 three years in a row. Tied with Eric Crouch for most TDs and was the second (Tebow first, Newton second) player in DI history to throw for 20 and rush for 20 TDs in a single season. No matter what conference you are from that's pretty amazing.

1. Leadership - 9 (never give a 10 to a player has yet to wear an NFL jersey but he IS the reason NEVADA football is relevant)
2. Intelligence - 10 (scored a 38 on the wonderlic - third highest of all players who took it in October pre-combine (24 is average for QBs) Collegiate Academic All-American and 4.3 GPA in High School)
3. Accuracy - 7 (Kap needs to improve a little more in this category but this can be learned; but he has improved every year he has played)
4. Pocket Presence - 7 (Kap needs to learn this, happy feet in the NFL makes for a short starting career. Letting the play develop is essential and there is no question Kap showed he had this ability this year but hasn't done it in a pro-set with real competition)
5. Anticipation - 8 (In the Pistol set at NEVADA he had to read defenses (that's the whole point of the offense - anticipating where the receiver and defender are))
6. Arm strength - 9 (Watch film of him; threw a 95 mile an hour fastball in high school and had both Manning brothers "giggling" over how hard he threw the ball, his current QB coach in Atlanta says he can throw the ball standing 80+ yards)
7. Adaptability - 8 (He entered and learned an entire offense that no one else ran, if that doesn't show he can adapt I don't know what does)
8. Durable - 10 (he may look thin but he ran for over 4000 yards in college - more than 1000 a year average - and was never out of a game four straight years - I don't care what conference you play in that is impressive)
9. Athletic - 10 (no explanation needed)
10. Size - 8 (he has the height but may need another 10 lbs)
11. Experience - 10
12. Makes players better around him - 9 (imagine if he had SEC players around him, blocking, catching, running . . . he made everyone on NEVADA better)
13. Character - 10 (he smiles all the time, he is humble, he comes from a GREAT family, was never linked to anything remotely controversial in college or high school)
14. Work Ethic - 10 (he will be the first player at practice and the last to leave the facility, that is just the way he is made up; his motto "Side by side, no where to hide" which means he will do anything an NFL team will ask in the evaluation process, all combine drills and will compete with anyone standing next to him)
15. Throwing motion - 6 (Throws a bit side arm and has long arms so motion is longer, feet are good and will get a lot better with coaching)
***Keep in mind NEVADA's coaching staff is among the lowest paid in FCS football, imagine if he had the quality of a Florida or Auburn staff to work with him for even one year?***

Cam Newton (104 out of 150)

1. Leadership - 7 (One year a leader does not make but I think he has an "it" factor)
2. Intelligence - 6 (I think he will score average to low on wonderlic and his off the field decision making is very, very suspect, I do think he is street smart and savvy though)
3. Accuracy - 7 (He looks good on tape and practice but he didn't throw well in "big" games)
4. Pocket Presence - 6 (He was a one read and run player in college but he was asked to do that, not sure how he'll do in pro set)
5. Anticipation - 5 (Never asked to anticipate throws in college)
6. Arm strength - 9 (He's strong no doubt)
7. Adaptability - 7 (I'm not sure but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt as he played at three schools in three years, have to adapt)
8. Durable - 10 (He had the frame and size to compete)
9. Athletic - 10 (no explanation needed)
10. Size - 10 (no explanation needed)
11. Experience - 3 (all he has asked to be is an athlete, not a QB - that is a BIG difference)
12. Makes players better around him - 6 (Not from what I see, at Auburn it was the Cam Newton show much like Texas was the Vince Young show)
13. Character - 4 (I give him 4 because he has done interviews about his father otherwise it would be a big fat "0" this kid seems entitled and his father is an enabler, everyone seems to think the computer and cheating issues mean nothing but I think the NFL is a different world, you have to be mature and I'm not sure he is)
14. 14. Work Ethic - 7 (this is a guess, no idea how he is because he hasn't ever been asked to work but I get the sense he has his head down working up to the draft, he's not stupid, he knows this is a question)
15. Throwing motion - 7 (has some foot issues, does throw over the shoulder with shorter release but still has work to do like all the QBs in this draft)

This evaluation is flawed, I know. You weigh certain things more than others but I think it shows that Kaepernick is a better overall prospect and less of a risk than Newton. If Newton was a proven, good person I think Newton would be a no brainer over Kaepernick. For my money I'd rather pay a kid that has proven that he is good, hard working, intelligent, respects the game and those around him.

San Diego Chicken
02-18-2011, 04:35 PM
I've said this before but the #1 thing to me is the cheating on papers. If he's too lazy to write his own papers, it makes you wonder whether he'd be too lazy to study hundreds of pages of an NFL playbook on his own time. The laptop thing is a forgivable offense. And the pay-for-play doesn't seem like it would have any connection to his NFL prospects.

A Perfect Score
02-18-2011, 04:35 PM
I'm about as big a Newton doubter as there is around these parts, and I spend a significant portion of my time on these boards taking shots at Newton and questioning him as a prospect, but even Im not crazy enough to suggest Kaepernick is a better overall prospect.

yourfavestoner
02-18-2011, 05:00 PM
I've said this before but the #1 thing to me is the cheating on papers. If he's too lazy to write his own papers, it makes you wonder whether he'd be too lazy to study hundreds of pages of an NFL playbook on his own time. The laptop thing is a forgivable offense. And the pay-for-play doesn't seem like it would have any connection to his NFL prospects.

Dude....are you serious right now? If that's the case, I hope (for your sanity) that the Chargers never draft a player from FSU.

I'd venture to guess that at least half (probably way, way more) of the draft eligible prospects in any given year have received "assistance" academically. Hell, I personally know a UCLA player enrolled at the school right now who has admitted as much to me.

DenverFan1974
02-18-2011, 05:00 PM
I'm about as big a Newton doubter as there is around these parts, and I spend a significant portion of my time on these boards taking shots at Newton and questioning him as a prospect, but even Im not crazy enough to suggest Kaepernick is a better overall prospect.

LOL If it only came down to the physical tools I'd agree but Newton has sooooooo many other question marks that CK doesn't. Does that make CK a better prospect? Probably not but he sure makes him a lot less risky. Newton, for all accounts, is about himself and not a team or anyone else. That's a dangerous person to bring into an organization.

If I'm an NFL GM I'm not giving someone who has yet to demonstrate the ability to maturely make decisions and be selfless the keys to run my team, even as a back-up.

San Diego Chicken
02-18-2011, 05:04 PM
Dude....are you serious right now? If that's the case, I hope (for your sanity) that the Chargers never draft a player from FSU.

I'd venture to guess that at least half (probably way, way more) of the draft eligible prospects in any given year have received "assistance" academically.

How many of them are QB's?

SeanTaylorRIP
02-18-2011, 05:08 PM
LOL If it only came down to the physical tools I'd agree but Newton has sooooooo many other question marks that CK doesn't. Does that make CK a better prospect? Probably not but he sure makes him a lot less risky. Newton, for all accounts, is about himself and not a team or anyone else. That's a dangerous person to bring into an organization.

If I'm an NFL GM I'm not giving someone who has yet to demonstrate the ability to maturely make decisions and be selfless the keys to run my team, even as a back-up.

Dude you are overblowing his character concerns big time, you act like he's a murder or rapist or something. I'm not going to choose a guy over him just because he's a nice kid. If Newton checks out in interviews he's a top 10 pick easy. And from everything I've heard I've never seen anything about him not being a team player, if anything I've heard he has one of the best work ethics.

SeanTaylorRIP
02-18-2011, 05:10 PM
How many of them are QB's?

I don't see a correlation between cheating on a test and not learning a playbook. The fact is that he was in college to play football not get an education so he didn't spare time to be a student. Not smart of him but if he could learn his playbook in college he shouldn't have a problem in the NFL where it's his job.

TACKLE
02-18-2011, 05:14 PM
And from everything I've heard I've never seen anything about him not being a team player, if anything I've heard he has one of the best work ethics.

But perhaps the most interesting comment on his work ethic comes from his LT Lee Ziemba who said that during winter workouts Newton so impressed his offensive teammates in the weight room that they named him – a QB - to a five-man tug-of-war team to take on the defense. The offense won. Ziemba went on to say that: “Players put a great deal of stock in how hard a teammate works when there's no coach forcing him to do it. But Cam was out there in the rain, throwing passes on the weekend when we were at the lake. He was dragging receivers out there with him. That kind of work ethic prepared our guys to follow him."

...........

San Diego Chicken
02-18-2011, 05:21 PM
I don't see a correlation between cheating on a test and not learning a playbook. The fact is that he was in college to play football not get an education so he didn't spare time to be a student. Not smart of him but if he could learn his playbook in college he shouldn't have a problem in the NFL where it's his job.

Newton cheated on term papers. Bought them online, and put his name on other student's work. It's not a question of intelligence for me, it's a question of work ethic and dedication. Writing a freshman level term paper is not that hard. To me, that's just plain lazy. I hope he's learned from those mistakes, and I hope the laziness is limited to schoolwork and not football work like studying film, learning an offense and learning opposing defenses.

DenverFan1974
02-18-2011, 05:25 PM
Dude you are overblowing his character concerns big time, you act like he's a murder or rapist or something. I'm not going to choose a guy over him just because he's a nice kid. If Newton checks out in interviews he's a top 10 pick easy. And from everything I've heard I've never seen anything about him not being a team player, if anything I've heard he has one of the best work ethics.

You are probably right but I've always been hard on QB prospects when it comes to character. I'd be a real hard@#$ GM and coach because I'm not paying a player millions to be anything short of perfect on and off the field. Newton hasn't proven (we'll never know, he needs to convince a team) that he fully understands what it means to be an NFL quarterback. He could become a HOFer but the more you learn about this kid has to give you pause.

DBNYDP
02-18-2011, 05:25 PM
Well do you think Lee would say he is terrible?

FUNBUNCHER
02-18-2011, 05:31 PM
Having someone write a course paper for you is 'cheating on a paper'. It's intellectually lazy and a common practice, unfortunately, on every college campus in the United States.

Cam got 'caught' because obviously he had the wrong hookup at Florida.
I'd like to take a survey on how many 'NFL execs' interviewing Cam at the combine had a paper written for them in college, or copied a paper from a previous semester, or lifted a single paragraph from a previously submitted paper and presented it as their own.

It's very easy IMO under this scenario for someone like Cam to get caught more than once doing this. I can imagine the 'brain trust' conferencing in his dorm room one night as a frosh at UF explaining to him how to do it 'right' this time.lol

It's bad enough, but my God if Cam is a scumbag for doing it, well that's a pretty harsh indictment IMO.

I'm sorry but the fact is that it takes some people, especially young adults, at least a couple of years to learn one of the hard truths about LIFE; at the end of the day all you have is your name. What do people say about you when you aren't in the room??
How you build it up, or tear it down, is directly related to your own actions and no one else.

DenverFan1974, why does it take more than a year as a starter in college for someone to be a leader??
Cam WAS a leader on that Auburn team, a great one, possibly the greatest in the program's history considering the success the Tigers had last year.
Cam deserves a '10' for adaptability, etc.
(I love homerz!!!lol...'cause I'm one too.)

Anyway, I like both guys as a prospects and once they get to the NFL they both will start from zero, although Cam I'm sure will be given more of an opportunity to fail or succeed than CK, because of where he projects to be drafted.

yourfavestoner
02-18-2011, 05:36 PM
Also, I think it should be noted that the cheating reports out of Florida came from an unverified source and neither the school nor Urban Meyer confirmed the story. Not only that, but he was never expelled from the school. He put in his transfer request when Tebow decided to come back for his senior season.

There's also this little tidbit from Brad Franchione (Dennis' son), his head coach at Blinn:

Before Newton could enroll at Blinn, however, Franchione and school officials conducted their own inquiry into the situation at Florida.
"We have a (National Junior College Athletic Association (http://topics.chron.com/topics/National_Junior_College_Athletic_Association)) policy that you can't take a student-athlete that is not eligible to go back to the institution he was at," Rehr said. "So, upon him leaving Florida, he was still in good standing as a student, and he was still in good standing with the (football) program.


"We were assured by people in the admissions office and the coaching staff at Florida that he was in good standing."

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/college/7294741.html

The whole article is a really, really insightful look at Cam. The tidbit about Cecil lends credence to those who think he's far too meddling in his son's life, even though the decision to send him to Blinn worked out well.


Newton was suspended from the Gators football team. He was later welcomed back, but he elected to transfer when Heisman winner Tim Tebow decided to return for his senior year.
Newton told reporters in Alabama that the decision to attend Blinn was mostly "up to my father - whatever way he felt I should go, that's the way I was going to go."
Cecil Newton (http://topics.chron.com/topics/Cecil_Newton) told Sports Illustrated the Brenham school was "like a remote rehab process" for his son, and "that was his resurrection."
Cam Newton called the decision to attend Blinn, a JUCO football powerhouse, "one of the most influential decisions in my life."

A Perfect Score
02-18-2011, 05:45 PM
To be fair, Im of the mind that if someone isn't willing to put in the work to succeed in the classroom with a full scholarship to a top school on the line and a shot at the NFL, then they certainly aren't going to sit in a film room and dissect defenses or study up on their playbook. Think about how easy university is and think about how easy it is to coast by with C. Its pretty damn easy and takes almost no effort. Now if he's willing to put his dream of playing football for a premier NCAA school and a shot at the pros because he's too lazy to put in THAT LITTLE effort, to me...that speaks volumes. Thats not the kind of person I want leading my football team.

TACKLE
02-18-2011, 05:46 PM
The whole article is a really, really insightful look at Cam. The tidbit about Cecil lends credence to those who think he's far too meddling in his son's life, even though the decision to send him to Blinn worked out well.

Cecil and Co.'s influence concerns me more than anything else when it comes Cam Newton. Cecil clearly is a very strong, controlling force in his son's life and Cam is almost loyal to a fault when it comes to his dad. The one qualm I have with the whole "supporting cast" is that in general, they can promote entitlement which can lead to complacency. Not saying this will happen at all but its something I am aware of. The aspect of Cam's maturity that is more important as an NFL player imo, is his ability to start making important decisions more independently. Obviously this needs to be taken with a boulder of salt (I read you use that the other day and liked it haha) considering none of us have any specific insight into Cam's personal life. It would just be a shame to see someone as talented as him, dragged down by those whom he trusts and relies on most.

DenverFan1974
02-18-2011, 05:48 PM
DenverFan1974, why does it take more than a year as a starter in college for someone to be a leader??
Cam WAS a leader on that Auburn team, a great one, possibly the greatest in the program's history considering the success the Tigers had last year.
Cam deserves a '10' for adaptability, etc.
(I love homerz!!!lol...'cause I'm one too.)

Maybe coming from a small program I have a different perspective on what leadership means. Leadership is a lot more than winning all your football games. Leadership is showing that studying in the classroom is as much a part of being a college football player as what you do in practice and on the field. Leadership is how you get your team up for a game after a tough or abysmal loss. Leadership is knowing that whatever you do as a major collegiate quarterback is going to reflect directly on your coach, teammates and program and in turn making the right choices. Leadership is how you live your life, having integrity and doing what is right even if it is more convenient and easier to do wrong.

Newton may be a natural born leader (gave him a 7) but to prove you are a leader you have to do right by those around you for more than a semester. He may have done everything right last year (on and off the field) but his track record does not bode well for him especially if he is learning integrity and leadership from his father.

San Diego Chicken
02-18-2011, 05:48 PM
Also, I think it should be noted that the cheating reports out of Florida came from an unverified source and neither the school nor Urban Meyer confirmed the story. Not only that, but he was never expelled from the school. He put in his transfer request when Tebow decided to come back for his senior season.

There's also this little tidbit from Brad Franchione (Dennis' son), his head coach at Blinn:



http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/college/7294741.html

The whole article is a really, really insightful look at Cam. The tidbit about Cecil lends credence to those who think he's far too meddling in his son's life, even though the decision to send him to Blinn worked out well.

At face value these are all allegations. He was facing a hearing in front of the student conduct committee but transferred out before that hearing, and apparently wasn't even enrolled at Florida for that spring semester. Florida officials probably can't discuss it due to disclosure laws. Either way you spin it, it's something that needs to be examined further by Cam's prospective employers.

A Perfect Score
02-18-2011, 05:55 PM
To be fair, Im of the mind that if someone isn't willing to put in the work to succeed in the classroom with a full scholarship to a top school on the line and a shot at the NFL, then they certainly aren't going to sit in a film room and dissect defenses or study up on their playbook. Think about how easy university is and think about how easy it is to coast by with C. Its pretty damn easy and takes almost no effort. Now if he's willing to put his dream of playing football for a premier NCAA school and a shot at the pros because he's too lazy to put in THAT LITTLE effort, to me...that speaks volumes. Thats not the kind of person I want leading my football team.

**** the bottom of the page sirs.

yourfavestoner
02-18-2011, 06:03 PM
**** the bottom of the page sirs.

Again, he was 19 years old at the time. At 19, I had gotten kicked out of my school for poor grades, and I wasn't even participating in athletics. I stole ****. I aligned myself with Scumbag Steves. I sold drugs. I did a lot of very, very, very bad things that I'm not proud of whatsoever. If you were to give a scouting report on what the rest of my life would look like, it would not have been favorable and that's putting it kindly.

But you know what? I hit rock bottom, I learned, and I grew up. And like I've said before, if I met 19 year old me, I'd probably punch him in the face for being a complete douchebag. I don't really know anything about Bryan, TX (where Blinn is located), but I guarantee that's about as close to rock bottom as you can get after being at UF.

That's why I say I can't have a definitive opinion about him off the field. Are there warning signs? Absolutely. And nobody is saying any differently. But I don't know him, and I definitely don't know the difference (if there is any) between 19 year old Cam and 21 year old Cam.

A Perfect Score
02-18-2011, 06:08 PM
I dont mean to be condescending because you know Im a fan of yours yfs, but I think there's a huge difference between the average, everyday person's life and someone who has been handed the athletic tools to start at QB for one of the NCAA's premier schools. I was a jackass when I was 19 as well, but even I knew better then to screw up and I was playing high school and standard Canadian rep football. If you had handed me a scholarship to Florida and I was expected to be the next in line to start at QB, there is literally no way in hell I would have cheated, lied, fought, stolen, drank, smoked or any of the other **** I did in my boring, everyday life here. No way in hell would I risk a full scholarship to a premier school and a shot at the pros. Not even my 19 year old self would have done that. Its nice to say he was immature and he's grown up since then, but Id expect a 19 year old with that much at stake to know better then to **** it up because you dont want to write your own paper. Come on man.

the natural
02-18-2011, 06:33 PM
Maybe the worrisome thing is that Cam is still following the advice of the same people who were with "Team Newton" when he was 19.

Babylon
02-18-2011, 06:53 PM
He comes across as a good kid that cant seem to break the ties with those around him, you could almost say the same thing about guys like Allen Iverson and Michael Vick. Having said that the thing that worries me more from a projection standpoint is having a very short resume. Mark Sanchez didnt have that many more games played in at USC but in his defense he was in the program for 4 years.

Packfan7
02-18-2011, 07:13 PM
One thing that hasn't been brought up yet....

Does anyone think it will be a concern for NFL teams that he's already inked his $1M plus deal with Under Armour before he's done anything on the field?

I've never heard or read that Cam is a lazy guy or that he isn't the first in the gym/film room, last to leave. But I've never heard or read that he isn't either. I know with Kaepernick, there are plenty of articles floating around where Nevada staff talks about him being a first in, last out type.

Any concerns that with some money in hand already, he won't put in the extra mile it takes? If his dad was willing to put his son's career at risk over $200K, you can imagine what that family must be thinking about $1M. How do you stay motivated?

I wish I knew more about his competitive side. And I don't mean gameday. I mean everything else it takes at the NFL level to be the man.

the natural
02-18-2011, 07:27 PM
One thing that hasn't been brought up yet....

Does anyone think it will be a concern for NFL teams that he's already inked his $1M plus deal with Under Armour before he's done anything on the field?

I've never heard or read that Cam is a lazy guy or that he isn't the first in the gym/film room, last to leave. But I've never heard or read that he isn't either. I know with Kaepernick, there are plenty of articles floating around where Nevada staff talks about him being a first in, last out type.

Any concerns that with some money in hand already, he won't put in the extra mile it takes? If his dad was willing to put his son's career at risk over $200K, you can imagine what that family must be thinking about $1M. How do you stay motivated?

I wish I knew more about his competitive side. And I don't mean gameday. I mean everything else it takes at the NFL level to be the man.

My concern is that he and his advisors seem more concerned with Cam Newton the product than Cam Newton the football player. They seem to be following the Tebow example in terms of marketing off the player's college credentials in case things don't work out well at the pro level. Both guys want to be famous stars. I think Tebow does it for different reasons though. Tim seems to want to use his platform to spread his belief and inspire by example. Newton's efforts seem more ego driven and derivative of Tebow.

RealityCheck
02-18-2011, 08:51 PM
kaprnickz haz ugly throwin motion n playd at nevada so he sux and cam newton playd at auburn so hes gawd!!!

BigBanger
02-18-2011, 09:28 PM
He didn't steal a computer. He got kicked out for cheating and learned that he isn't entitled. You are supremely ignorant on this topic, you don't even know what happened in this situations based on your descriptions.
Why did he get charged with burglary and larceny? That means he entered a dwelling (a room for overnight lodging) and committed a crime therein (stealing a lab top). Stealing property is called larceny, in this case grand larceny since the lab top was worth more than $1,000. So that means... put 2 and 2 together. If they didn't think he stole it, then he would have got a criminal possession of stolen property charge, but they could prove he stole it, which is why they charged him with burglary and larceny. I suggest you drop the naive card. It doesn't take someone with a four year degree in law, which I have, to understand the concept of larceny.

He also didn't get kicked out for cheating. He was going to get kicked out for cheating. But maybe he learned he wasn't entitled by what exactly? By going to the highest bidder? That's all it took? Oh, I'm sure that wont inflate his ego one bit. "The moneys too good... haha." Yeah, he sounds like a great kid that has learned his lessons. It's been about four months since the last scandal, I guess he's a God fearing good boy thats probably gonna be snipping 6 year old kids foreskin in Indonesia for some more good publicity.

FUNBUNCHER
02-18-2011, 10:01 PM
BB, do yourself a favor and read up on the charges against Cam at Florida.
All charges against him regarding the stolen laptop, which he purchased and did not enter someone's room and steal, were DROPPED btw, while he was still at Florida.

If someone knowingly receives stolen property, the police can also charge the beneficiary with larceny and burglary after the fact.

And what's a four year degree in law??

Where I'm from, a JD from is Law School is three years, not four.

NotRickJames
02-18-2011, 11:13 PM
I like Colin quite a bit.

Comes out of a gimmick pistol offense and has some serious issues with mechanics and footwork, but he has great talent.

He could be really good if he goes into the right situation. Needs to sit for a year or two and learn under a good coaching staff.

Halsey
02-18-2011, 11:33 PM
The thing about QBs like Keapernick is that many fans like them not because they are great prospects, but because they can be had after the first round. If Kaepernick was expected to be a first round pick, many of his fans wouldn't like him so much. These are fans who are afraid to take a risk on first round QBs. Every year they fall in love with certain mid round QBs and hate any of the top QBs. I don't buy into this flawed logic. If I think a QB has serious franchise potential, he's worth a first round pick. It doesn't make a QB more attractive just because he's going to be passed by NFL teams in the first round.

BigBanger
02-18-2011, 11:59 PM
BB, do yourself a favor and read up on the charges against Cam at Florida. All charges against him regarding the stolen laptop, which he purchased and did not enter someone's room and steal, were DROPPED btw, while he was still at Florida.

And what's a four year degree in law??

Where I'm from, a JD from is Law School is three years, not four.
I'm aware that the charges were dropped due to an intervention (diversion) program they use in Florida for first time offenders, or college athletes like Newton, but thats a different debate. That doesn't mean he was innocent of anything.

You can graduate in 3 years... also 4. You took that comment pretty literal by the way.

If someone knowingly receives stolen property, the police can also charge the beneficiary with larceny and burglary after the fact.
Where do they do this? Florida?

Thats ********. I'm not from Florida, have never been, and don't know their laws, but that is moronic. I'm assuming this is Newton's case? I heard he says he bought it out a trunk for a $120. I have not heard if he gave the name of the guy he bought the computer from to police, which he probably didn't because the guy with the trunk full of loot probably doesn't exist. I also heard that a witness overheard him say that he "took a computer" and that the cops were about to search the place. What's good information and what's bad? Anything from Newton's perspective is a lie. I don't know, I just look at 3 felony charges against him and allegations that HE WAS THE ONE TO STEAL IT, and it's a simple conclusion. He's a thief and he tried to cover it up by throwing it out a window and having a buddy hide it. Because charges were dropped makes him a good guy?

Burglary is a serious crime from where I from, and you don't just go around charging everybody with burglary when they were nowhere near the crime scene. You have to enter a building to be criminally trespassing, you commit a crime while trespassing and then they call that burglary. If he wasn't in the dorm room, then you can't charge him with burglary. If he's in possession of stolen property and you can't prove how he came into possession of said stolen property, then you charge him with criminal possession of stolen property. You don't charge him with burglary. You have to do the burglarizing to be a burglar.

The victim says he doesn't know if he stole it. It sounds like a botched investigation.

brasho
02-19-2011, 06:54 AM
okay so he was in possession of a stolen laptop. but do you guys really think he's gonna need a stolen laptop ever again? he's gonna have all the money in the world to get as many laptops as he wants.

This is why you can't just totally flush it down the toilet and say that now that he has money, he will be cured of all evil... He's shown a severe lack of judgment, and he's committed a crime against another person that showed he lacks compassion for others. Though he may not be hurting for money, he'll still likely have the same issues of poor judgment... and before we totally discount the "compassion for others bit", remember, he would be the face of the franchise, the spokesperson a team uses to sell the franchise to league, etc. Again, it all needs to be looked into way closer... his character issues have nothing to do with his love of laptops, it's crappy judgment that is worrisome.