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Xiomera
05-12-2011, 02:31 PM
Yeah you only threatened to. It's the whole reason why I felt the need to speak up. I think you might've carried out on that threat if I hadn't either. You'll thank me later for saving the league from your Nazi threats.

I think your opinion of your efforts is far too valiant. This isn't a war. There are no casualties.

Jughead10
05-12-2011, 02:35 PM
How about this? I give Xio David Hernandez for Aaron Hill. And then I'll give D-Unit Hill and Bartolo Colon for Verlander and a throw in back my way. Then at the end of the day everyone can be happy. Except for Yoda, so I'll have GF or Broduer give him a sensual massage.

D-Unit
05-12-2011, 03:26 PM
How about this? We get rid of the league veto.

Xiomera
05-12-2011, 03:31 PM
How about this? We get rid of the league veto.

Can't do it mid-season. And again, I don't have a problem with a veto if the parties that were against it actually speak up and justify it. Otherwise it just looks like collusion to keep teams from making moves.

D-Unit
05-12-2011, 03:36 PM
Can't do it mid-season. And again, I don't have a problem with a veto if the parties that were against it actually speak up and justify it. Otherwise it just looks like collusion to keep teams from making moves.
But that's the thing. The purpose for asking for reasons is to defend yourself and try to get the thing passed again. If you don't have problem with veto, then there shouldn't be a requirement for those who voted against it to have to say anything. The possibility of collusion (at varying degrees) is always a side effect of the veto feature. It comes with the territory, like it or not.

Xiomera
05-12-2011, 03:41 PM
But that's the thing. The purpose for asking for reasons is to defend yourself and try to get the thing passed again. If you don't have problem with veto, then there shouldn't be a requirement for those who voted against it to have to say anything. The possibility of collusion (at varying degrees) is always a side effect of the veto feature. It comes with the territory, like it or not.

No, it's about identifying why you think a trade is unfair and what element makes it an uneven bargain. This is especially important to know since a lot of people signed off on the trade and didn't think it was unjust.

Maybe next year we find 2-3 people outside the league to serve as trade consultants to assess fairness. Or even use the ESPN Answer Guys service to make rulings. They get back to you within 24 hours. We've seen in the past that uninhibited trading doesn't work either.

D-Unit
05-12-2011, 04:01 PM
No, it's about identifying why you think a trade is unfair and what element makes it an uneven bargain. This is especially important to know since a lot of people signed off on the trade and didn't think it was unjust.

Maybe next year we find 2-3 people outside the league to serve as trade consultants to assess fairness. Or even use the ESPN Answer Guys service to make rulings. They get back to you within 24 hours. We've seen in the past that uninhibited trading doesn't work either.
No, it's not about identifying it because you would just accept the response instead of debating it.

Consultants is a terrible idea. People make trades for all different reasons. There is not one single strategy. Some people are looking to the future, some are not. Some try to make their own projections, others rely on expert projections... values differ. Some go by rankings... beginning of the season rankings to current rankings... big difference again. Some may strategize to collect assets versus fill immediate needs. Some people are homeristic and want players from the favorite teams on their fantasy team... It could go on and on.

You're just making a fuss now that your trade got rejected. You never made this fuss when 2 of mine were. Give it up already and deal with it. Just leave the league settings alone.

Xiomera
05-12-2011, 04:10 PM
No, it's not about identifying it because you would just accept the response instead of debating it.

Consultants is a terrible idea. People make trades for all different reasons. There is not one single strategy. Some people are looking to the future, some are not. Some try to make their own projections, others rely on expert projections... values differ. Some go by rankings... beginning of the season rankings to current rankings... big difference again. Some may strategize to collect assets versus fill immediate needs. Some people are homeristic and want players from the favorite teams on their fantasy team... It could go on and on.

You're just making a fuss now that your trade got rejected. You never made this fuss when 2 of mine were. Give it up already and deal with it. Just leave the league settings alone.

20 minutes earlier
How about this? We get rid of the league veto.



You just told me you wanted it changed to no vetoes. Dude, that's the only reason I even suggested consultants. You're talking in circles.

D-Unit
05-12-2011, 04:22 PM
20 minutes earlier




You just told me you wanted it changed to no vetoes. Dude, that's the only reason I even suggested consultants. You're talking in circles.
Paint whatever picture you want.

Here's the real story...

You PM'd me...

I PM'd you back saying, "If you don't like vetos, get rid of the setting."

You PM'd me back saying, "Maybe we will consider abolishing the veto thing next year"

So my post 20 min earlier was me proposing to everyone else here what YOU were considering privately.

In the end, I didn't think you should consider it. BAM.

Xiomera
05-12-2011, 04:25 PM
We're keeping the vetoes. We're also keeping the precedent that vetoed trades need to be explained by the dissenters.

End of discussion forever.

yodabear
05-12-2011, 04:27 PM
I'm not exactly sure how people are saying that Xio is getting the two best players. Clearly, u guys are just over valuing a guy thats a third starter on his own damn team and a guy that has spent the better part of like his career on the disabled list. I am just gonna quit trading now.

D-Unit
05-12-2011, 04:28 PM
We're keeping the vetoes. We're also keeping the precedent that vetoed trades need to be explained by the dissenters.

End of discussion forever.
Alright, but I don't know how you plan on enforcing that. Will you just push through trades if people don't speak up?

Xiomera
05-12-2011, 04:30 PM
Alright, but I don't know how you plan on enforcing that. Will you just push through trades if people don't speak up?

Just shut up dude. You're the only one making an issue of this. Of course that isn't how it will work.

Myself and other had the courtesy to tell you why your deal was vetoed. At least have that same courtesy for others in the future.

D-Unit
05-12-2011, 04:34 PM
I'm not exactly sure how people are saying that Xio is getting the two best players. Clearly, u guys are just over valuing a guy thats a third starter on his own damn team and a guy that has spent the better part of like his career on the disabled list. I am just gonna quit trading now.
Well since I'm the only one who responded, I guess I am "people". To be fair, I'm only 1 vote. My biggest part of it was Fuentes. I just don't think he's going to help you that much in saves once Bailey gets back. Xio has plenty of other closers that he could give you. Or he could give you Ellsbury who is still young. He's been just as injury prone as Sizemore, but is a much better keeper than the soon to be 39 year old Ichiro. Get Xio to improve his offer...and throw in a massage or two. ;) If you quit trading, your team is inevitable to fall in the standings because of the way you ate up your innings.

D-Unit
05-12-2011, 04:36 PM
Just shut up dude. You're the only one making an issue of this. Of course that isn't how it will work.

Myself and other had the courtesy to tell you why your deal was vetoed. At least have that same courtesy for others in the future.
Asking for it isn't the problem I have. "Requiring" it is another thing.

My trades got vetoed twice. I've been where you are now. It's not so fun when it's you, huh?

Xiomera
05-12-2011, 04:38 PM
D, you can't say that I should have to throw in a better closer just because I have a few of them. The depth of my roster doesn't require me to overlook actual value of the players I am giving up.

That's like saying if two teams just traded their 2nd best hitters for each other straight up that the value is fair because of their relation to other players on our respective rosters.

D-Unit
05-12-2011, 04:40 PM
D, you can't say that I should have to throw in a better closer just because I have a few of them. The depth of my roster doesn't require me to overlook actual value of the players I am giving up.

That's like saying if two teams just traded their 2nd best hitters for each other straight up that the value is fair because of their relation to other players on our respective rosters.
You said you're helping in saves right? How many do you project Fuentes to get for the rest of the season? Be real. No ifs ands or buts. Gimme a number.

Xiomera
05-12-2011, 04:44 PM
You said you're helping in saves right? How many do you project Fuentes to get for the rest of the season? Be real. No ifs ands or buts. Gimme a number.

10 saves minimum with a potential for many more. Bailey still feels discomfort in his arm so it might be 50/50 whether he has a setback or has to have surgery. And again, it's about securing ALL of Oakland's saves. Common practice. Why the hell do you think I still have Brandon ******* Lyon on my roster.

And again, Fuentes is in this deal to make up a not-so-large discrepancy between Sizemore and Hill. He's not expected to represent HUGE value because the two sides are only a smidge apart without him.

Jesus, this is so ******* simple to comprehend.

Xiomera
05-12-2011, 04:45 PM
I'm leaving for a while. Hopefully you've come to your senses.

Not that it matters because this big trade isn't being processed.

D-Unit
05-12-2011, 04:51 PM
10 saves minimum with a potential for many more. Bailey still feels discomfort in his arm so it might be 50/50 whether he has a setback or has to have surgery. And again, it's about securing ALL of Oakland's saves. Common practice. Why the hell do you think I still have Brandon ******* Lyon on my roster.

And again, Fuentes is in this deal to make up a not-so-large discrepancy between Sizemore and Hill. He's not expected to represent HUGE value because the two sides are only a smidge apart without him.

Jesus, this is so ******* simple to comprehend.
Well I disagree on that number, but I've said my peace. At least 4 others rejected it too... soo... we'll see if you can "require" it out of them.

Brodeur
05-12-2011, 06:59 PM
Marcum has an up and down shoulder and can get injured anytime, so you really are overrating his value a bit here. I don't want to read your entire arguments because D Unit talks too much, but it's stupid and the trade shouldn't have been vetoed. And no, this isn't just because Xio is my friend or because he told me to either.

djp
05-12-2011, 07:16 PM
I can't even believe this is an issue. It's not that bad of a trade at all. Newsflash guys, this is a free league. Lighten up a bit.

bearsfan_51
05-12-2011, 07:29 PM
I did veto the trade and gave my reasons to Xio in a PM. Don't really get all the drama either way.

D-Unit
05-12-2011, 08:17 PM
The trade was vetoed by the required number of league votes. Xio should have never mentioned that he would've pushed it through again if he didn't get an explanation why. Essentially, that's what caused all this fun talk.

D-Unit
05-12-2011, 09:15 PM
Holy Crap Beltran went OFF today!

Xiomera
05-12-2011, 10:14 PM
KCJ, clear your Private Messages inbox so I can reply to you.

D-Unit
05-12-2011, 11:14 PM
The trade was only vetoed because I myself vetoed it immediately when it appeared Sizemore was hurt. When he was ruled "day to day," my concerns went away.

Frankly, I only needed an explanation from D-Unit because he's the only one who would ever find it egregious enough and subsequently spend hours arguing everything under the sun.
What is this about Xio?

Xiomera
05-12-2011, 11:17 PM
What is this about Xio?

Does it need explaining? Are you a visual learner? Should I draw you a picture?

D-Unit
05-12-2011, 11:20 PM
Does it need explaining? Are you a visual learner? Should I draw you a picture?
All I can say is don't blame me for stirring up any drama. It's ALL you.

Xiomera
05-12-2011, 11:22 PM
All I can say is don't blame me for stirring up any drama. It's ALL you.

LOLZ

Takes two to argue, chief. You spun this debate in every direction possible.

Goodnight.

D-Unit
05-12-2011, 11:33 PM
LOLZ

Takes two to argue, chief. You spun this debate in every direction possible.

Goodnight.
Oh I did? What did I spin? I didn't even want to respond admitting I rejected your trade.

But you threatened and demanded a response. So I gave it. You're the one who then went on a rampage. Now you just said you vetoed your own trade (I'm guessing with your commish powers) and you only wanted to draw me out to find out why I rejected the trade (assuming I was the only one who rejected it), when in fact you already vetoed the trade on your own doing and it wasn't even rejected by the league. Am I reading your post right or are you suffering from a multiple personality disorder?

Xiomera
05-12-2011, 11:34 PM
D, you misunderstand. I voted against the trade. It takes 4-5 votes to do it. I don't have the power by myself to kill a trade.

It WAS rejected by the league. You, BF, and one other unnamed person.

D-Unit
05-12-2011, 11:36 PM
D, you misunderstand. I voted against the trade. It takes 4-5 votes to do it. I don't have the power by myself to kill a trade.

It WAS rejected by the league. You, BF, and one other unnamed person.
Gotcha. I get it.

Xiomera
05-12-2011, 11:51 PM
I'm done arguing. I accept the league's overturn of the trade, and man you know I'm not a corrupt commish. I wouldn't push a trade through again. I was just frustrated with people not speaking up. It's a trade 98% of people didn't object to and it still died. That deserves to be discussed.

End of discussion of this trade.

D-Unit
05-13-2011, 12:07 AM
I'm done arguing. I accept the league's overturn of the trade, and man you know I'm not a corrupt commish. I wouldn't push a trade through again. I was just frustrated with people not speaking up. It's a trade 98% of people didn't object to and it still died. That deserves to be discussed.

End of discussion of this trade.
Well this latest trade looks good to me. Congrats.

Xiomera
05-13-2011, 11:36 AM
Anyone interested in Ubaldo Jimenez? He's having big control issues to start the year and while I fully expect him to rebound, I'm in "win now" mode and can't afford to ride it out.

It'd be a discounted price on a guy everyone considered to be a top 12 pitcher a month and a half ago.

Giantsfan1080
05-13-2011, 11:48 AM
I saw him pitch yesterday and he did not look good at all. Control issues don't even explain it.

Xiomera
05-13-2011, 12:36 PM
I saw him pitch yesterday and he did not look good at all. Control issues don't even explain it.

I saw him pitch his start prior to that. Look how few hits he's allowing though. Still striking out better than a batter per inning. He'll get it figured out.

bearsfan_51
05-13-2011, 01:35 PM
I'm interested in trading, but I don't really know why.

Xiomera
05-13-2011, 01:46 PM
I'm interested in trading, but I don't really know why.

Probably because it's boring to track the stats of the same 2 dozen players every night. That's why I do it.

Jughead10
05-13-2011, 01:56 PM
Probably because it's boring to track the stats of the same 2 dozen players every night. That's why I do it.

YOU LACK DISCIPLINE!

Xiomera
05-13-2011, 02:00 PM
YOU LACK DISCIPLINE!

Patience is a virtue. It's also a personality flaw.

bearsfan_51
05-13-2011, 03:59 PM
I'm low on wins, but trading for wins is a fools errand. I could use more saves, but saves are always overrated in leagues like this.

bearsfan_51
05-13-2011, 04:01 PM
Could Prince provide some rationale for the trade? I won't veto it either way because it's such a small potatoes move, I just don't get the appeal for him.

Xiomera
05-13-2011, 04:08 PM
Could Prince provide some rationale for the trade? I won't veto it either way because it's such a small potatoes move, I just don't get the appeal for him.

I won't speak for Prince, but I imagine it's to acquire another capable starter given that he's 50 IP below the normal pace.

My rationale is that I have too many starters and don't wanna use innings as quickly as I do.

bearsfan_51
05-13-2011, 04:16 PM
Hammel gets no K's though. Whatever, he's only giving up a middle reliever. Have at it.

Xiomera
05-13-2011, 04:22 PM
Hammel gets no K's though. Whatever, he's only giving up a middle reliever. Have at it.

Haha, aren't you the proud owner of Jason Vargas? Hammel struck out more batters last year than most of your pitching staff.

D-Unit
05-13-2011, 04:31 PM
What should I do to improve my team?

Xiomera
05-13-2011, 04:38 PM
What should I do to improve my team?

Trade for Aaron Hill. I can't believe you don't want him ..........

Or you could add more hitters so you don't have empty slots and no stats on your starters' days off.

bearsfan_51
05-13-2011, 04:50 PM
Haha, aren't you the proud owner of Jason Vargas? Hammel struck out more batters last year than most of your pitching staff.
I picked up Vargas because he's pitching against the Twins.

Step 1: Find out who is pitching against the Twins.

Step 2: Start him

Step 3: Drop him

Xiomera
05-13-2011, 06:34 PM
Don't worry, Prof. I don't fault you for it.

bearsfan_51
05-13-2011, 09:02 PM
******* Joba....I just picked you up too...

KCJ58
05-13-2011, 09:04 PM
******* Joba....I just picked you up too...

E, Ehh, YEAAAAAAAA

who needs an OF or Edwin Encarnascio

Also why is there no option to OK the trade, or that your for it than rather veto, is that your option to vote against it or not vote at all?

Xiomera
05-13-2011, 09:32 PM
I like that trade between D and KCJ. I don't necessarily get what it does for either side, but I like it because people are actually being active.

D-Unit
05-14-2011, 01:43 PM
I like that trade between D and KCJ. I don't necessarily get what it does for either side, but I like it because people are actually being active.

We tried to help each other solidify our positional weaknesses.

yodabear
05-14-2011, 01:44 PM
We tried to help each other solidify our positional weaknesses.

My positional weakness: doggy style.

D-Unit
05-14-2011, 02:07 PM
My positional weakness: doggy style.

Hmm... Surprising considering how good you are on your knees. ;)

Xiomera
05-14-2011, 02:26 PM
We tried to help each other solidify our positional weaknesses.

You swapped two shortstops and two guys on the DL. I thought it was even enough, just curious.

bearsfan_51
05-17-2011, 12:38 PM
Testing the market for the following three pitchers:

-Dan Haren
-Mat Latos
-Jeremy Hellickson

Please, no silly offers.

Xiomera
05-17-2011, 01:21 PM
Testing the market for the following three players:

-Kevin Youkilis
-Ubaldo Jimenez
-Paul Konerko

Please, no silly offers.

Giantsfan1080
05-17-2011, 01:49 PM
Testing the market for the following three players:

-Jason Bay
-Carlos Pena
-Freddy Sanchez

Please, no silly offers.

D-Unit
05-17-2011, 02:10 PM
PM me if you like my guys. I welcome silly offers with open arms! No getting offended here. :)

Jughead10
05-17-2011, 02:17 PM
Testing the market for the following three players:

-Jason Bay
-Carlos Pena
-Freddy Sanchez

Please, no silly offers.

Jamey Carrol for Jason Bay?

Giantsfan1080
05-17-2011, 02:24 PM
Jamey Carrol for Jason Bay?

It would get vetoed. That's clearly not fair for you.

D-Unit
05-17-2011, 02:37 PM
I'd let it go.

bearsfan_51
05-17-2011, 02:56 PM
Testing the market for the following three players:

-Kevin Youkilis
-Ubaldo Jimenez
-Paul Konerko

Please, no silly offers.
Try to be like me all you want, I'm still winning this league.

Xiomera
05-17-2011, 03:11 PM
Try to be like me all you want, I'm still winning this league.

Not in this lifetime or the next.


Also, I'd be fine with Carroll for Bay. It's not like Bay is the player he was 3 years ago.

Giantsfan1080
05-17-2011, 03:14 PM
You guys are missing the joke. I said Jug would be getting the worse end of the deal since Bay turned into a joke at the plate seemingly once he signed on the dotted line last winter.

Jughead10
05-17-2011, 03:15 PM
You guys are missing the joke.

Everyone knows Bay sucks. They get it. But I still wanna do the deal if you wanna.

Xiomera
05-17-2011, 03:16 PM
It would get vetoed. That's clearly not fair for you.

Ahhh, it's funny because we veto everything! http://draftcountdown.com/forum/images/icons/icon10.gif

Giantsfan1080
05-17-2011, 03:25 PM
Everyone knows Bay sucks. They get it. But I still wanna do the deal if you wanna.

For real though there would be no point. I'd rather hold out hope that Bay becomes half of what he used to be only 2 years ago.

D-Unit
05-17-2011, 03:43 PM
For real though there would be no point. I'd rather hold out hope that Bay becomes half of what he used to be only 2 years ago.
What a tease.

D-Unit
05-17-2011, 11:38 PM
The trick to having Liriano on your team.... bench him and he'll do great. play him and he'll find an excuse to suck. :)

Xiomera
05-17-2011, 11:42 PM
He doesn't always suck?

D-Unit
05-18-2011, 11:31 AM
He doesn't always suck?
Well, the time to buy him low is now over. ;)

Xiomera
05-18-2011, 11:48 AM
Well, the time to buy him low is now over. ;)

Lolz ..........

D-Unit
05-18-2011, 01:37 PM
Lolz ..........
Laugh now, cry latah.

bearsfan_51
05-18-2011, 07:52 PM
Wins is such an awful category. I have the best era and whip by pretty large standards and I can't buy a freakin' win.

D-Unit
05-18-2011, 08:06 PM
Wins is such an awful category. I have the best era and whip by pretty large standards and I can't buy a freakin' win.
Amen brother. I'm in a similar boat.

Jughead10
05-19-2011, 08:44 AM
Wins is such an awful category. I have the best era and whip by pretty large standards and I can't buy a freakin' win.

I had two pitchers in the same game last night give me 7 innings 0er and 8 innings 0er and neither got the win. It happens. Deal with it.

bearsfan_51
05-19-2011, 10:49 AM
I had two pitchers in the same game last night give me 7 innings 0er and 8 innings 0er and neither got the win. It happens. Deal with it.

My ERA and WHIP: 3.11 and 1.12
Your ERA and WHIP: 3.50 and 1.21

I've pitched more innings than you, and you still have more wins. Shaddup.

Jughead10
05-19-2011, 11:08 AM
My ERA and WHIP: 3.11 and 1.12
Your ERA and WHIP: 3.50 and 1.21

I've pitched more innings than you, and you still have more wins. Shaddup.

By 2 wins. Pretty insignificant amount. I could have lucked into those 2 wins from a reliever. You've got more guys than me with 4 and 5 wins already. Are you starting them? Anderson only has 2, but that's the risk you take with any Oakland pitcher. However that same risk hasn't held true with Pineda for me.

Xiomera
05-19-2011, 11:33 AM
I momentarily considered a change to quality starts before the season but that's a stupid category too as we all know. 6 IP, 3 ER does not a good start make. At least when you consider that 8 IP, 4 ER doesn't get the same weight.

Jughead10
05-19-2011, 11:39 AM
I momentarily considered a change to quality starts before the season but that's a stupid category too as we all know. 6 IP, 3 ER does not a good start make. At least when you consider that 8 IP, 4 ER doesn't get the same weight.

I always thought a quality start should be 6 IP 2 ER or 7+ innings and 3 ER. Too bad you can't manually set it to that.

bearsfan_51
05-19-2011, 12:01 PM
Quality starts isn't perfect, but I think it makes more sense than wins. It's at least a better reflection of the pitcher's performance, instead of his run support.

But that's why I like points league over roto. Nothing is perfect.

yodabear
05-19-2011, 12:06 PM
Wins is such an awful category. I have the best era and whip by pretty large standards and I can't buy a freakin' win.

U know which category I hate, but I understand thuroghly why its kept. STOLEN ******* BASES. Seriously, I have 2 roto leagues and I am in the middle of the pack in both. U know why? ******* STOLEN BASES. I am near the bottom, if not the bottom in both leagues. They aso keep track of holds, which is even a bigger joke than wins and I am last in those. But back to the crux of it. **** STOLEN BASES!

Giantsfan1080
05-19-2011, 12:18 PM
Wins and Quality Starts are both terrible.

Xiomera
05-19-2011, 01:05 PM
Quality starts isn't perfect, but I think it makes more sense than wins. It's at least a better reflection of the pitcher's performance, instead of his run support.

But that's why I like points league over roto. Nothing is perfect.

Roto is a real man's game.

Points scoring is even more questionable because there is absolutely no good method of assigning points.

People can ***** about every stat.

bearsfan_51
05-19-2011, 01:17 PM
Roto is a real man's game.
Guess that means you're 15.5 roto points less of a man than me.

Xiomera
05-19-2011, 01:18 PM
Guess that means you're 15.5 roto points less of a man than me.

http://baseball.fantasysports.yahoo.com/league/nfldcleague/2010

Enough said.

bearsfan_51
05-19-2011, 01:20 PM
You're the past, Xio.

Xiomera
05-19-2011, 01:25 PM
You're the past, Xio.

It's also Mid-May and I'm in second place. Don't go counting those chickens ...

bearsfan_51
05-19-2011, 04:29 PM
http://www.buzzle.com/img/articleImages/291424-33830-51.jpg

D-Unit
05-19-2011, 08:06 PM
You're the past, Xio.
Actually I own the past. ;)

2005 - 1st place
2006 - 2nd place
2007 - 1st place
2008 - 1st place
2009 - Did not play
2010 - I wasn't a top contender, so I purposely tanked. Fully credit the champ (Xio) for winning.
2011 - I'm coooooooomin' ;)

Xiomera
05-19-2011, 08:09 PM
Actually I own the past. ;)

2005 - 1st place
2006 - 2nd place
2007 - 1st place
2008 - 1st place
2009 - Did not play
2010 - I wasn't a top contender, so I purposely tanked.
2011 - I'm coooooooomin' ;)

Don't give us that purposely tanked excuse. It was a brand new league. All of us started from scratch, therefore had the same chance to succeed.

Let us not forget that I won by huge margins the two years prior in your Dynasty League with similar settings. Half this league was also in that one.

bearsfan_51
05-19-2011, 08:37 PM
I fully realize I could still lose. Every league needs a villain, however, and since D's team is toast I'm just picking up the mantle. ;)

D-Unit
05-19-2011, 08:38 PM
Don't give us that purposely tanked excuse. It was a brand new league. All of us started from scratch, therefore had the same chance to succeed.

Let us not forget that I won by huge margins the two years prior in your Dynasty League with similar settings. Half this league was also in that one.
When I knew I couldn't win, I tanked. Deal with it. I admit my team wasn't good and I fully credited you for winning last year.

Who cares about other leagues? You wanna know how many fantasy leagues I've won against other posters on this forum... I don't go talking about that here... For the sake of your embarrassment, I suggest we keep to talking about this league. ;)

D-Unit
05-19-2011, 08:41 PM
I fully realize I could still lose. Every league needs a villain, however, and since D's team is toast I'm just picking up the mantle. ;)
ho ho ho ho ho.... it's like that now, huh? okaaaaaaaay.... ;)


BTW, I absolutely LOVE your trash talk. The quiet guys bore me. :)


Remember when Max's team was raking at the start of the season? That's gonna happen to you BF. Yeeeeaaaah.

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o110/angelofecci/ChunkTruffleShuffle.gif

Xiomera
05-19-2011, 09:03 PM
When I knew I couldn't win, I tanked. Deal with it. I admit my team wasn't good and I fully credited you for winning last year.

Who cares about other leagues? You wanna know how many fantasy leagues I've won against other posters on this forum... I don't go talking about that here... For the sake of your embarrassment, I suggest we keep to talking about this league. ;)

I'd love to continue talking about how I dominated this league last year.

Last year was the first of its kind. All years prior were points scoring and non-keeper, and therefore not comparable to this league. Your Dynasty league, however, is comparable.

I just don't understand the mentality of tanking. Maybe I'm tanking this year, that's why I'm not ahead by 20 pts again ... http://draftcountdown.com/forum/images/icons/icon12.gif [sarcasm]

D-Unit
05-19-2011, 09:50 PM
I'd love to continue talking about how I dominated this league last year.

Last year was the first of its kind. All years prior were points scoring and non-keeper, and therefore not comparable to this league. Your Dynasty league, however, is comparable.

I just don't understand the mentality of tanking. Maybe I'm tanking this year, that's why I'm not ahead by 20 pts again ... http://draftcountdown.com/forum/images/icons/icon12.gif [sarcasm]
Ego is such a fun thing. :)

What's not to understand about tanking? Nobody cares who comes in 2nd... much less 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th so on... There was more advantage for me to get a high pick than finish somewhere in the middle. Unfortunately, I didn't expect the draft to be so pitiful.

Xiomera
05-19-2011, 10:48 PM
Ego is such a fun thing. :)

What's not to understand about tanking? Nobody cares who comes in 2nd... much less 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th so on... There was more advantage for me to get a high pick than finish somewhere in the middle. Unfortunately, I didn't expect the draft to be so pitiful.

It's an excuse.

We can stop having this conversation anytime you want. http://draftcountdown.com/forum/images/icons/icon12.gif

D-Unit
05-19-2011, 11:48 PM
It's an excuse.

We can stop having this conversation anytime you want. http://draftcountdown.com/forum/images/icons/icon12.gif
Stop having this conversation? Why would I? I have the best track record in this league. I have more championships than you. Does that make your ears bleed? The only thing you can come up with in your defense are "excuses".

I admit to losing last year. I admit I had no chance to win. I admit to it, so I don't know why you call it an excuse. I decided to play for draft position once I knew I had no chance to compete for a championship towards the end. So I tanked on purpose.

KCJ58
05-20-2011, 01:15 AM
If anyone needs an extra SP i got: Jorge De La Rosa, Bronson Arroyo, Brett Myers, Brandon McCarthy, Kyle McClellan, Chris Narveson,

I would want a cheap 3B or OF in return

Giantsfan1080
05-24-2011, 01:59 PM
By the way the deal I made with D doesn't look as lopsided anymore now does it? Bruce was the best player in that deal and I was lucky to get him.

D-Unit
05-24-2011, 02:10 PM
By the way the deal I made with D doesn't look as lopsided anymore now does it? Bruce was the best player in that deal and I was lucky to get him.
I'm happy that you're happy. :D

I think too much was made out it for some reason. People have their own opinions... doesn't mean it's right or wrong.

Giantsfan1080
05-24-2011, 02:12 PM
Even at first glance it was a pretty even trade. You got the closer and an equal hitter but I got the best player now and long term plus an offensive C for the future. I just think XIO was just mad I robbed him blind 2 years ago.

HChu
05-24-2011, 08:41 PM
In case anyone is curious, all players on my team are up for trade. Looking for SP but mostly anything. Just offer away.

bearsfan_51
05-24-2011, 08:43 PM
The Rapture didn't come on May 21st, but it's still dominating this league.

bearsfan_51
05-24-2011, 08:45 PM
Blue Jays relievers, however, are ******* terrible.

Xiomera
05-24-2011, 09:36 PM
Aviiiiiiiiila!

Xiomera
05-26-2011, 09:12 AM
giods goidsg iuodpfgiodpfgsdiohpfg sdiogd giopdgiopdsgfoidpsf sdoids fiodsfodsfosdfiodsfiosdfdois fdiosfdfj;gf j

Gonna delete this post too, D-Unit? Maybe there's an encrypted message in it ...

Giantsfan1080
05-26-2011, 10:00 AM
What did I miss?

D-Unit
05-26-2011, 11:07 AM
giods goidsg iuodpfgiodpfgsdiohpfg sdiogd giopdgiopdsgfoidpsf sdoids fiodsfodsfosdfiodsfiosdfdois fdiosfdfj;gf j

Gonna delete this post too, D-Unit? Maybe there's an encrypted message in it ...
That's what I said when I read about Posey getting hurt today.

D-Unit
05-26-2011, 01:40 PM
So Xio... Are you gonna "demand" reasoning for the trade getting vetoed or is that just a one way street thing again, that only happens when your trades get vetoed?

Jughead10
05-26-2011, 01:44 PM
So Xio... Are you gonna "demand" reasoning for the trade getting vetoed or is that just a one way street thing again, that only happens when your trades get vetoed?

I'm pretty sure it was because Posey got hurt. Once I heard that, I went to hit veto.

Xiomera
05-26-2011, 02:04 PM
So Xio... Are you gonna "demand" reasoning for the trade getting vetoed or is that just a one way street thing again, that only happens when your trades get vetoed?

I'm pretty sure that's on you to ask for given that it's your trade.

I think the Posey being hurt thing pushed it over the edge.

As for me, I already told you I vetoed it because you thought it'd be OK to delete posts and censor this thread. If I hadn't already done it, I surely would have when Posey went on the DL.

Xiomera
05-26-2011, 02:07 PM
D, don't even bother sending me a bunch of PMs. I told you I was done having these discussions, especially in private when it concerns the entire league.

D-Unit
05-26-2011, 02:37 PM
D, don't even bother sending me a bunch of PMs. I told you I was done having these discussions, especially in private when it concerns the entire league.
What are you suffering from? You're not even making sense. I last responded to your PM where you asked me a question. Now I'm the one bothering you with PMs? ...and discussions that involve the entire league??? Waa? We talked about the truce we agreed on after your last trade got vetoed. Remember when I approached you about wanting a truce? That was my idea. I was tired of the drama behind bashing each other's trades. You were all for it when your trade was on the table, that eventually went through. Then you pretty much went against what I thought we tried to get past. The only reason I deleted your first post (where you said "Clear winner.") was because I thought it was a break against that truce and I wanted to resolve it between you and I via PM. It wasn't something that concerned the entire league. But you acted like I was being some Nazi admin deleting posts, when they were all post of you acting like irrationally while I was trying to clear up my confusion.

Seriously, do you need a refresher of our conversation? I mean, I don't have a problem sharing our PMs if you think it concerns the entire league...

Here...

I don't appreciate your negative comment on my latest trade. I thought we called truce. You've been wrong in your opinion on my trades in the past (GF's one) and now you're trying to spread a bad message about this one. I've been in talks with HChu for weeks. It's taken a lot of thought and effort. This was his proposal to me.

Do you even know what I was talking about?

I'm not vetoing anything.
Well it wasn't very specific. Not enough for me to get it obviously. Sorry for misunderstanding, but that post seemed like an attack. What were you talking about?
I think if you responded to this PM then things would probably be cleared up. I apologized for misunderstanding and asked what you meant, but I never got an answer. What exactly did you mean by "Clear winner"?

I meant that there is a clear winner in that trade. What you don't see is anything other than that. I wasn't going to make this an issue until you decided it needed to be one by deleting posts.
See, that's what I thought you meant. Then you confused me. I thought we were beyond bashing each others trades. By you saying that, it's like an attempt to get others to veto it. When we called a truce on bashing each other's trades I wasn't under the impression that it was only for trades that you/I liked. It was for all trades whether you or I liked it or not. Is that not so?

It's not an attempt at anything. If it were, I wouldn't have bothered to limit myself to a vague post that doesn't indicate whose side I'm on.

Deleting posts? Come on, man. That's not your smartest decision if you want this trade to go through without a hitch.Well, I'll just assume you rejected it. I don't know why you can't let the system work itself without having to openly criticize it first.

...and my last PM to you. ...the one where I'm all of a sudden being accused of sending you PMs that concern the league...

Openly criticize? I said nothing indicating which side I favor, or even to indicate what I was referring to.

Also, every single trade that's agreed upon gets commented on in the thread as it's pending. Those posts are not exclusive to me. Even if I had posted a criticism of it, it's not out of the ordinary. BF does it. DJP does it. Everyone who pays attention does it.

End of conversation. Don't delete anyone's comments from the thread or we're gonna have bigger issues with this league.
Don't play innocent. Saying clear winner is an obvious criticism that doesn't matter which side you are referring to. You're simply referring to your opinion that the trade is lopsided. You wanna justify it by saying that everything gets commented on. Well, not everything gets commented on. No one said anything about the Beckett/Hamilton trade. But the bottom line is that we had a truce that you broke. That's how you're different from bf and djp or whoever.

You just deleted even more posts. Why?
More drama than what it's worth. Just say whatever you want to say. I won't delete it.

Xiomera
05-26-2011, 02:40 PM
D-Unit wrote:
Just say whatever you want to say. I won't delete it.

You deleted it still.

Xiomera
05-26-2011, 02:45 PM
What exactly are you seeking to accomplish here? Your trade was vetoed because a key player in it has a serious injury and is on the DL in addition to the fact that people found it uneven.

There are other leagues you can join, I'm sure, if this one doesn't suit you.

D-Unit
05-26-2011, 02:50 PM
D-Unit wrote:


You deleted it still.
I think you're confused on the timeline of things. I said that before your last post where you said asldfjalsdfjalsdjflasdfaspwieurp[we.

D-Unit
05-26-2011, 02:54 PM
What exactly are you seeking to accomplish here? Your trade was vetoed because a key player in it has a serious injury and is on the DL in addition to the fact that people found it uneven.

There are other leagues you can join, I'm sure, if this one doesn't suit you.
Yeah, I get that it was vetoed based on Posey. Very fine with that. Don't necessarily agree that it was uneven based on him being healthy, so that's what I was curious to know about. Forget it.

This league suits me fine. These arguments actually turn out to be very memorable. haha.

Xiomera
05-26-2011, 02:56 PM
I think you're confused on the timeline of things. I said that before your last post where you said asldfjalsdfjalsdjflasdfaspwieurp[we.

Nope. I went to bed last night and woke up to several more deleted posts. I inquired, and you replied with "say whatever you want." Well, I did the night before and you deleted the posts.

There is absolutely nothing you can say to justify deleting posts from the thread.

This is the end of the discussion. You either rest your case or leave the league. The trade was vetoed because the centerpiece of your package to HChu is on the disabled list with a fractured leg. There is no grey area here and whatever semantics you want to get into are irrelevant.

D-Unit
05-26-2011, 03:12 PM
Nope. I went to bed last night and woke up to several more deleted posts. I inquired, and you replied with "say whatever you want." Well, I did the night before and you deleted the posts.

There is absolutely nothing you can say to justify deleting posts from the thread.

This is the end of the discussion. You either rest your case or leave the league. The trade was vetoed because the centerpiece of your package to HChu is on the disabled list with a fractured leg. There is no grey area here and whatever semantics you want to get into are irrelevant.
What don't you get? I deleted the posts because I was trying to clear up the agreement we had on not bashing each other's trades. Obviously you want to continue that. That's fine. It's not gonna make me want to leave the league. Makes me want to try even harder!

Secondly, I already mentioned that I'm fine with the veto of the trade since finding out Posey got hurt. I was trying to get info about why the trade was uneven before I knew that. But maybe I shouldn't have. My mistake.

yodabear
05-27-2011, 12:38 AM
D-Unit, I vetoed ur trade. It was cuz of Posey's injury. If it didn't happen, I woulda let it go. But Posey was the key piece Sneezy was getting.

D-Unit
05-27-2011, 01:00 AM
D-Unit, I vetoed ur trade. It was cuz of Posey's injury. If it didn't happen, I woulda let it go. But Posey was the key piece Sneezy was getting.
That's cool yoda. :)

djp
05-28-2011, 03:59 PM
woooo blockbuster!

bearsfan_51
05-28-2011, 04:10 PM
D makes a desperate move for relevancy in this league. Fails.

djp quits and plays for next season. Wins.

djp
05-28-2011, 04:15 PM
I'll add some reasoning to why I accepted the deal.

Yes, Matt Kemp and Tommy Hanson are both great players and I really hate to lose Kemp in particular but Longoria is a monster long term upgrade over Mike Young and getting Ackley and Posey are two very nice young pieces to build around. The injury for Posey sucks, but I'm not winning anything this year anyways.

So now my 12 keepers look something like..

C Posey
2B Pedroia
3B Longoria
OF McCutcheon
OF Ackley
SP Price
SP Felix
SP Cain
SP Romero
SP Billingsley
SP Matusz
RP Perez

instead of

2B Pedroia
3B Young?
SS Drew?
OF Kemp
OF McCutcheon
OF Quentin?
SP Price
SP Felix
SP Hanson
SP Romero
SP Cain
RP Perez

So there's three of the scarcest positions in C, 2B, 3B locked up in terms of keepers plus I still have a stable of arms. Basically, I balance my team out a lot more and even if Ackley does not pan out I still have some decent options for the 12th spot with Gaby Sanchez or Quentin.

bearsfan_51
05-28-2011, 04:18 PM
I don't think you need to explain your end of the deal to anyone, djp.

djp
05-28-2011, 04:21 PM
I just like to ramble, bf.

D-Unit
05-28-2011, 04:27 PM
D makes a desperate move for relevancy in this league. Fails.

djp quits and plays for next season. Wins.
Fail? This is about fun for me more than anything. I'm having fun!

D-Unit
05-28-2011, 04:29 PM
I don't think you need to explain your end of the deal to anyone, djp.
Thanks bf! But I bet people will veto it thinking I'm ripping someone off again. lol. Cause that's all I do ya know. ;)

yodabear
05-28-2011, 04:43 PM
Trade looks good to me. Especially with djp's brilliant explanation.

Xiomera
05-28-2011, 04:52 PM
I don't exactly think Ackley is keeper-worthy like DJP thinks he is. But it doesn't matter. The deal is fair.

djp
05-28-2011, 05:01 PM
I don't exactly think Ackley is keeper-worthy like DJP thinks he is. But it doesn't matter. The deal is fair.

He's certainly got the potential and has done very well in triple A and should be up within the next few weeks.

Like I said, I've got backup plans if he doesn't show me anything this year in Sanchez and Quentin.

Xiomera
05-28-2011, 05:03 PM
He's certainly got the potential and has done very well in triple A and should be up within the next few weeks.

Like I said, I've got backup plans if he doesn't show me anything this year in Sanchez and Quentin.

Nah, it doesn't matter whether he's kept or not to determine the merit of your trade.

Just saying I lean against keeping anyone who isn't truly proven.

djp
05-28-2011, 05:11 PM
http://draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=39360

This is a fun thread to look at now. How the hell did I lose Cahill? Did I drop him? I think I did. Ouch.

Xiomera
05-28-2011, 05:53 PM
Yeah, I definitely screwed up keeping Soto and Nathan this season. Wish I had kept Nolasco and Daniel Hudson instead. I need more solid starters.

I did pretty good considering I got ZERO contributions from my 3rd, 5th, 9th and 10th rounders from the initial draft.

bearsfan_51
05-28-2011, 07:58 PM
Ryan Braun (3)
Jose Reyes (22)
Dan Haren (27)
B.J. Upton (51)
Robinson Cano (70)
Cole Hamels (75)
Brett Anderson (94)
Lance Berkman (118)
Adrian Beltre (195)

Nice.

djp
05-28-2011, 08:31 PM
How about Price at 115, Romero at 246?

yodabear
05-28-2011, 08:43 PM
Paul Konerko is an Asian and I still DK who Jack Wilson plays for.

Xiomera
05-28-2011, 09:35 PM
Rickie Weeks 182
Paul Konerko 299 (!)
Shaun Marcum 347

Jughead10
05-31-2011, 08:54 AM
I don't know the numbers but I basically picked up the future of my rotation on the waiver wire in Britton. Plus I drafted Pineda this year pretty late.

KCJ58
06-05-2011, 12:06 PM
F*** too many DL players on my team

D-Unit
06-06-2011, 01:01 PM
I don't know the numbers but I basically picked up the future of my rotation on the waiver wire in Britton. Plus I drafted Pineda this year pretty late.
2 great moves!

I'm staying patient with Lawrie and Rizzo.

D-Unit
06-06-2011, 03:17 PM
5 point jump was a huge one for me yesterday. Stoked when I saw that!

I still think I'm in a volatile state though. Could easily take a 7 point dive today. The top tier between BF and Xio is a tough one to crack.

Xiomera
06-06-2011, 04:12 PM
F*** too many DL players on my team

Dude, drop some of them. Eleven is an absurd number to hang on to.

Jughead10
06-07-2011, 12:44 PM
Dude, drop some of them. Eleven is an absurd number to hang on to.

You beat me to Gordon by like 3 minutes.

Xiomera
06-07-2011, 02:23 PM
You beat me to Gordon by like 3 minutes.

He can be yours if we discuss a deal.

D-Unit
06-08-2011, 02:44 AM
The Rapture is about to lose the top spot...

bearsfan_51
06-08-2011, 10:20 AM
No I'm not. I could over time, but it's not eminent. I'm closer to gaining points back than losing more.

In MY league, on the other hand....

Xiomera
06-08-2011, 11:24 AM
No I'm not. I could over time, but it's not eminent. I'm closer to gaining points back than losing more.

In MY league, on the other hand....

I'm gonna catch you in the AL League soon.

D-Unit
06-08-2011, 01:16 PM
No I'm not. I could over time, but it's not eminent. I'm closer to gaining points back than losing more.

In MY league, on the other hand....
Weird... guess it was a stattracker glitch. They had Xio at 98 points yesterday. Today I see he's at 94. Still safe for now BF.

djp
06-08-2011, 01:30 PM
How does one acquire runs? I'm decent in the other hitting categories. Seems more dependent on team success than anything =/

Could use some saves as well.

Also, Matt Kemp is destroying the ball right now. Boo.

Xiomera
06-08-2011, 01:36 PM
How does one acquire runs? I'm decent in the other hitting categories. Seems more dependent on team success than anything =/

Could use some saves as well.

Also, Matt Kemp is destroying the ball right now. Boo.

As the guy who is leading in Runs by a huge margin, I'd recommend acquiring leadoff hitters.

This season, I've had Jacoby, Ichiro, Brantley, Victorino and Weeks (am I forgetting anyone?).

I'd deal Victorino if you wanna go that route.

D-Unit
06-08-2011, 01:37 PM
How does one acquire runs? I'm decent in the other hitting categories. Seems more dependent on team success than anything =/

Could use some saves as well.

Also, Matt Kemp is destroying the ball right now. Boo.
Runs... RBI's... very much rely on the players around a guy and their batting order.

Hopefully, you didn't just jinx Kemp! :) *knock on wood*

KCJ58
06-09-2011, 12:08 PM
Runs... RBI's... very much rely on the players around a guy and their batting order.

Hopefully, you didn't just jinx Kemp! :) *knock on wood*


no one can jinx Kemp, Dudes a Man among Beasts

Xiomera
06-11-2011, 11:03 PM
I might have been in first place had I not mistakenly benched Scherzer and Lilly's wins today.

Just sayin'

bearsfan_51
06-12-2011, 08:24 AM
I've made some really bad decisions on who to start and who not to start. Scott Baker would dominate the Rangers, who knew?

Xiomera
06-12-2011, 01:24 PM
Oh look, I'm in first place. (For now ...)

D-Unit
06-12-2011, 05:24 PM
Oh look, I'm in first place. (For now ...)
If it wasn't panic time before for BF... it is now.

I wish I started Liriano today. :/

bearsfan_51
06-12-2011, 07:06 PM
Why would I panic?

D-Unit
06-12-2011, 07:38 PM
Why would I panic?

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f273/Cristian619/Misc%206/35c4x7t.gif

bearsfan_51
06-12-2011, 07:40 PM
Ok. But, why? Because I might be down one day in a league that I've been in first place for the last two months?

There are two people in this league that have a chance at winning. I'm one of them. No panic.

D-Unit
06-12-2011, 08:03 PM
Ok. But, why? Because I might be down one day in a league that I've been in first place for the last two months?

There are two people in this league that have a chance at winning. I'm one of them. No panic.
Haha ha... still counting your chickens...

bearsfan_51
06-12-2011, 08:05 PM
Ok fine, Jughead has a chance.

Xiomera
06-12-2011, 08:12 PM
Who wants to trade?

D-Unit
06-12-2011, 08:57 PM
Who wants to trade?
I'm busy working 5 other trades, but I'll listen to ya.

Jughead10
06-12-2011, 09:58 PM
Ok fine, Jughead has a chance.

Cause of MOOOOOSETAKAS.

Xiomera
06-12-2011, 11:41 PM
I'm busy working 5 other trades, but I'll listen to ya.

Ooo, that might be difficult to work into my schedule, what with the 19 trades I have in the works.

Giantsfan1080
06-13-2011, 12:04 PM
I'd be up for a trade to try and make up for the big mistake deal I made earlier in the year with D.

D-Unit
06-13-2011, 12:21 PM
I'd be up for a trade to try and make up for the big mistake deal I made earlier in the year with D.
My bad. I didn't expect Jay Bruce to go on to have such a terrible year. I'll take him back...

Xiomera
06-13-2011, 12:59 PM
I'd be up for a trade to try and make up for the big mistake deal I made earlier in the year with D.

I don't know if this was meant as a sarcastic jab at me for not liking your half of it, but I still maintain that D wins the deal (if only by a smaller amount than I believed before). Bruce and VMart are equals (due to VMart's positional eligibility) and you undervalued one of the better closers in terms of both production and job security (Nunez).

Giantsfan1080
06-13-2011, 01:00 PM
My bad. I didn't expect Jay Bruce to go on to have such a terrible year. I'll take him back...

It was still pretty fair at the end of the day. I just like to make fun of XIO who thinks he's the master at deciding who won a trade.

Xiomera
06-13-2011, 01:00 PM
I'm looking for one more solid starter if anyone wants anyone of mine.

Giantsfan1080
06-13-2011, 01:08 PM
I don't know if this was meant as a sarcastic jab at me for not liking your half of it, but I still maintain that D wins the deal (if only by a smaller amount than I believed before). Bruce and VMart are equals (due to VMart's positional eligibility) and you undervalued one of the better closers in terms of both production and job security (Nunez).

Meanwhile I'm still second in saves which is where I was before I traded him. I also acquired one of the best young OF's in baseball and got a C back who is going to give me 3/4 of what Vmart does and is much much younger. Like I said a fair deal overall.

Xiomera
06-13-2011, 01:09 PM
Meanwhile I'm still second in saves which is where I was before I traded him. I also acquired one of the best young OF's in baseball and got a C back who is going to give me 3/4 of what Vmart does and is much much younger. Like I said a fair deal overall.

I only brought it up because you did. http://draftcountdown.com/forum/images/icons/icon12.gif

Jughead10
06-13-2011, 01:20 PM
Meanwhile I'm still second in saves which is where I was before I traded him. I also acquired one of the best young OF's in baseball and got a C back who is going to give me 3/4 of what Vmart does and is much much younger. Like I said a fair deal overall.

I'm going to pass you soon. By the weekend.

Giantsfan1080
06-13-2011, 01:41 PM
Well it would help if Crow really became the closer for KC. I still have Perkins up my sleeve as well if he gets back from the DL soon. Saves is the last thing to worry about which is why I didn't care less that I gave up Nunez.

D-Unit
06-13-2011, 03:10 PM
Nobody commented on the Grady Sizemore for Colby Rasmus/Josh Tomlin trade...

Does it hurt/help/do nothing to either team? Thoughts?

Giantsfan1080
06-13-2011, 03:35 PM
Rasmus is younger, better, and healthier than Sizemore so I didn't like it.

D-Unit
06-13-2011, 03:50 PM
Rasmus is younger, better, and healthier than Sizemore so I didn't like it.
They are different. I was looking for more pop and RBIs. There's always a risk with Sizemore, but I understood the gamble beforehand. So I'm willing to take my lumps if he gets hurt again.

Giantsfan1080
06-13-2011, 04:16 PM
Rasmus will drive in more than Sizemore though considering who he has in his lineup. Rasmus at worst will have the same power as Grady. I don't see the improvement.

D-Unit
06-13-2011, 04:37 PM
Rasmus will drive in more than Sizemore though considering who he has in his lineup. Rasmus at worst will have the same power as Grady. I don't see the improvement.
Eh, Rasmus batting first... versus Grady in the clean up... I took the chance. I haven't been in awe with Rasmus' power this year either. I regretted giving you Bruce instead of Rasmus... at the time, I liked Rasmus more than Bruce... but he soured on me since after our trade Bruce has sky rocketed while Rasmus has been the same or worse... I've actually been trying to trade Rasmus for a while now with no takers.

It will be fun more than anything to see how this pans out. Stay tuned! :)

Giantsfan1080
06-13-2011, 05:17 PM
Eh, Rasmus batting first... versus Grady in the clean up... I took the chance. I haven't been in awe with Rasmus' power this year either. I regretted giving you Bruce instead of Rasmus... at the time, I liked Rasmus more than Bruce... but he soured on me since after our trade Bruce has sky rocketed while Rasmus has been the same or worse... I've actually been trying to trade Rasmus for a while now with no takers.

It will be fun more than anything to see how this pans out. Stay tuned! :)

Rasmus usually bats 2nd or 5th.

bearsfan_51
06-13-2011, 06:01 PM
Nobody commented on the Grady Sizemore for Colby Rasmus/Josh Tomlin trade...
I liked it the first time when you gave me Big Papi. :)

I think it's a fair deal. Rasmus and Sizemore are interchangeable.

D-Unit
06-13-2011, 06:11 PM
I liked it the first time when you gave me Big Papi. :)

I think it's a fair deal. Rasmus and Sizemore are interchangeable.
I think my trades have made everyone on the opposite side happy this year.

You robbed me of Big Papi, but at least I got some good starts out of Tomlin and was keen enough to not play him on his last 2 explosions. Ended up getting me a guy I like in Sizemore too... so in the end, I'm good.

Thought it basically turned into Big Bapi and Colby Rasmus for Grady Sizemore. eeegh. Tough swallow.

bearsfan_51
06-13-2011, 06:22 PM
Can't win 'em all. You win a lot of them.

Nobody will trade with me though. :(

Xiomera
06-13-2011, 06:33 PM
I'll trade with you, BF.

D-Unit
06-14-2011, 08:23 PM
Who wants this cruddy Justin Verlander guy... ugh.

Xiomera
06-15-2011, 12:53 AM
Who wants this cruddy Justin Verlander guy... ugh.

Roy Halladay?

D-Unit
06-25-2011, 11:55 AM
If only for a day... I'm still happy to say "I'm in the 90 point club!" :)

D-Unit
07-03-2011, 10:52 AM
Hello, 2nd place! :D

bearsfan_51
07-03-2011, 10:53 AM
Oh, I've got 4 people on the DL? Ryan Braun and Jose Reyes got injured in the same day?

Oh.....

bearsfan_51
07-11-2011, 09:43 AM
If it wasn't panic time before for BF... it is now
Terrified.

D-Unit
07-14-2011, 01:58 PM
Terrified.
LOL. How many pages back did I type that?

Xiomera
07-19-2011, 03:08 PM
I'm throwing in the towel on this year. Not quitting, just won't be able to improve my ERA enough to get me back in contention.

I wanna make some trades. These are my only untouchables: Miguel Cabrera, Jose Bautista, Hanley Ramirez

Looking for starting pitching.

Giantsfan1080
07-21-2011, 05:14 PM
I'm looking to deal Uggla for SP if anyone is interested. Uggla has been doing very well recently.

D-Unit
07-26-2011, 12:41 AM
Selling:

Jemile Weeks
Michael Martinez
Johnny Damon
Jason Bourgeois
Brett Lawrie
Grady Sizemore
Erik Bedard
Francisco Liriano
Vance Worley
Alexi Ogando
Ryan Vogelsong

Giantsfan1080
08-03-2011, 12:19 PM
I completed a deal with D.

CJ Wilson and Brett Lawrie for Dan Uggla and Jordan Walden.

Xiomera
08-03-2011, 12:20 PM
I completed a deal with D.

CJ Wilson and Brett Lawrie for Dan Uggla and Jordan Walden.

Are you telling us because you want our analysis?

Giantsfan1080
08-03-2011, 01:52 PM
Naa just wanted the extra post.

Giantsfan1080
08-04-2011, 06:47 PM
How many keepers did we decide on?

D-Unit
08-04-2011, 07:06 PM
How many keepers did we decide on?
How many do you want?

We had 15 last year and I think we narrowed it down to 14.

Xiomera
08-04-2011, 08:03 PM
It's 12. We took a vote.

D-Unit
08-04-2011, 08:06 PM
It's 12. We took a vote.
I knew that... why did I say 14? My bad. I think if I remember, I voted 10 and most voted 12. LOL.

Xiomera
08-04-2011, 08:09 PM
The votes were all over the place. They average out to 12, which I think is a fair number.

Xiomera
08-05-2011, 12:56 PM
Anyone else starting to think about keepers?

I've got nine guys I'm certain I'll keep and I'm trying to figure out which three of these six guys to keep to round out my 12.

Ubaldo Jimenez
Max Scherzer
Shaun Marcum
Alex Avila
Shane Victorino
Paul Konerko

If anyone wants any of these guys, they're all on the trade block. I'll trade them 2 for 1 if you think they're better than some of the keepers you guys have.

Giantsfan1080
08-05-2011, 12:58 PM
Yeah that's why I asked because I started to think about it. It's going to be hard for me to cut out some guys with all the prosepcts I've picked up.

Xiomera
08-05-2011, 01:01 PM
If someone offered me a top 25-30 player, you could conceivably get 3 keepers for 1 from me in return.

Just sayin.

bearsfan_51
08-05-2011, 01:42 PM
I still thought it was 15. Oh well.

Keepers?

Ryan Braun
Robinson Cano
Jose Reyes
Cole Hamels
Dan Haren
Adam Jones
Craig Kimbrel
Mat Latos
Jeremy Hellickson
B.J. Upton


The last two? Not sure. Probably Adrian Beltre and one pitcher between Clay Buchholz, Jamie Garcia and Brett Anderson. J.J. Putz might be keepable as well.

But, like Xio said, I'd probably do a package deal as well, though I'd like to win this year too.

D-Unit
08-05-2011, 02:26 PM
I still thought it was 15. Oh well.

Keepers?

Ryan Braun
Robinson Cano
Jose Reyes
Cole Hamels
Dan Haren
Adam Jones
Craig Kimbrel
Mat Latos
Jeremy Hellickson
B.J. Upton


The last two? Not sure. Probably Adrian Beltre and one pitcher between Clay Buchholz, Jamie Garcia and Brett Anderson. J.J. Putz might be keepable as well.

But, like Xio said, I'd probably do a package deal as well, though I'd like to win this year too.
Package away baby... Package away....

bearsfan_51
08-05-2011, 03:17 PM
I'd certainly trade Buchholz and/or Anderson for anyone that would want to keep them for next year.

bearsfan_51
08-13-2011, 11:50 AM
Thanks to whomever gave Dan Uggla to D for next to nothing.

Injuries are killing my team. Reyes, Beltre, Anderson, Buccholz, Baker. Blech.

D-Unit
08-13-2011, 12:17 PM
Thanks to whomever gave Dan Uggla to D for next to nothing.

Injuries are killing my team. Reyes, Beltre, Anderson, Buccholz, Baker. Blech.
I think you're the only one who's sustained injuries this year so yeah, I definitely feel bad for you. :)

As for Uggla, I think GF had been trying to trade him all year... *shrugs*

bearsfan_51
08-13-2011, 12:43 PM
I think it's unusual to be in 1st and have 5 guys on the DL, yes.

Xiomera
08-13-2011, 04:19 PM
Don't get me started.

D-Unit
08-15-2011, 04:24 AM
I think it's unusual to be in 1st and have 5 guys on the DL, yes.
I have 4 guys on the DL. 3 of them, I traded for. The other is Strasburg who I've been holding onto for 2 years with pretty much no results. Injuries are just an expected part of the game.

I was so close to you yesterday. 99.5 to 99. I'm gunnin' for ya BF! It's been a fun chase.

Giantsfan1080
08-15-2011, 08:58 AM
I got the next Dan Uggla in Lawrie and one of the most underated pitchers in a game. I dealt Uggla when he was already at the 20 game hit streak so let's not cry here. Anyone had a chance but you guys were to lazy to make an offer. Ohh also I've skyrocketed up the standing since I dealt him.

Xiomera
08-15-2011, 09:56 AM
You didn't skyrocket up the standings because you dealt Uggla. There's no correlation, haha

Giantsfan1080
08-15-2011, 10:21 AM
You didn't skyrocket up the standings because you dealt Uggla. There's no correlation, haha

:) Yes there is. My pitching got better because of Wilson and Lawrie has been even better than Uggla during the time period.

D-Unit
08-15-2011, 03:30 PM
:) Yes there is. My pitching got better because of Wilson and Lawrie has been even better than Uggla during the time period.
Don't fret. You made your team better in the long run too. They are 2 keepers.

I'm not even keeping Uggla or Walden.

Giantsfan1080
08-15-2011, 03:41 PM
Believe me I'm not fretting at all. I don't care that I helped you out I still got a good deal back.

bearsfan_51
08-15-2011, 03:46 PM
No you didn't. Uggla is a better player now, and is, at worst, equal value to Lawrie as a keeper.

If you're keeping CJ Wilson, you've got some ugly keepers.

D-Unit
08-15-2011, 04:02 PM
No you didn't. Uggla is a better player now, and is, at worst, equal value to Lawrie as a keeper.

If you're keeping CJ Wilson, you've got some ugly keepers.
Uggla is on the hottest streak of his career. Stop overrating him. Even though he has nice power numbers, career wise he's proven to be a liabilitiy with his poor batting avg. Even in OBP... even though his hot streak, his OBP is only .297. GF soured on him a long time ago. Not until now has he been tradable. I don't blame him for selling while he's hot.

Lawrie is a stud prospect who will qualify at 2B and 3B. His keeper potential is better than Uggla. ...and it's not really that close, seeing as he's already showing realization on that potential in his short time that he's been up.

Wilson as a bad keeper option? This coming from the guy that loves to gobble up Rangers players. Why wouldn't you consider keeping their ace? Just shhhh. Worry about your own team and not try to belittle others' roster moves.

Giantsfan1080
08-15-2011, 04:12 PM
No you didn't. Uggla is a better player now, and is, at worst, equal value to Lawrie as a keeper.

If you're keeping CJ Wilson, you've got some ugly keepers.

Lawrie was a top 10 prospect on any midseason list and considering his positional value and age is way more of a better keeper than Uggla. Uggla brings very good power numbers but little much. I had Uggla through his power surge part of the hit streak anyway albeit missing 2 or 3 of the 15 HR's. Like I said Lawrie has been even better than Uggla over that time period though.

As for Wilson he's one of the most underrated pitchers in the game today playing in a high run scoring stadium. He's not a true #1 but his last two years have shown us he's a good #2 on most staffs in baseball and that translates to fantasy. My SP is not very good so combine that plus Wilson's good numbers in ERA, WHIP, k/9, k% and the chance he moves into a better park next year absolutely makes him a keeper. Closers are a dime a dozen so Walden was a good piece for D but did nothing for my team now or in the future. I'll get the new Walden on my team next year.

bearsfan_51
08-15-2011, 04:28 PM
Uggla is on the hottest streak of his career. Stop overrating him. Even though he has nice power numbers, career wise he's proven to be a liabilitiy with his poor batting avg. Even in OBP... even though his hot streak, his OBP is only .297. GF soured on him a long time ago. Not until now has he been tradable. I don't blame him for selling while he's hot.

Lawrie is a stud prospect who will qualify at 2B and 3B. His keeper potential is better than Uggla. ...and it's not really that close, seeing as he's already showing realization on that potential in his short time that he's been up.

Wilson as a bad keeper option? This coming from the guy that loves to gobble up Rangers players. Why wouldn't you consider keeping their ace? Just shhhh. Worry about your own team and not try to belittle others' roster moves.

"Shhh....stop pointing out how I consistantly rip people off in trades."

GF gave you a top 50 player now for a guy with potential. You could fill an encyclopedia with players that had great potential and never amounted to anything.

Uggla has an OBP of .369, .354, and .360 in the last three years, reaching 30+ homeruns in all three of those years. You're trying way too hard to make his case, and it's obvious why.

I vetoed the trade, and I would guess that if more people were actually paying attention, they would too. GF lost on all accounts.

Giantsfan1080
08-15-2011, 04:33 PM
You're incredibly wrong on this BF.

Giantsfan1080
08-15-2011, 04:41 PM
I bet Lawrie has a better year than Uggla next year.

D-Unit
08-15-2011, 06:07 PM
"Shhh....stop pointing out how I consistantly rip people off in trades."

GF gave you a top 50 player now for a guy with potential. You could fill an encyclopedia with players that had great potential and never amounted to anything.

Uggla has an OBP of .369, .354, and .360 in the last three years, reaching 30+ homeruns in all three of those years. You're trying way too hard to make his case, and it's obvious why.

I vetoed the trade, and I would guess that if more people were actually paying attention, they would too. GF lost on all accounts.
Hmm... traded for Tommy Hunter... on the DL after several ERA/WHIP killing games. Traded for Huston Street.... on the DL after several ERA/WHIP killing games. Traded for Grady Sizemore... he never got off the ground before getting back on the DL for the rest of the season. Traded you David Ortiz for Chris Young... stupid pitcher ended his season the day after I traded for him... Stop overexaggerating my trades. In trading, sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, and sometimes it works out for both parties. ...and acting like my trades would've been vetoed if we had an active league is a ridiculous statement.

I have risen in the standings because of the trades I made, but that is also a part of game. One strategy for winning is making trades. I admit wheeling and dealing takes a certain gamesmanship too, but that's not a fantasy no no. I think part of being a good owner is changing things up... being a mover and a shaker. Also a part of the fun. You can't fault a guy for seeking out trade partners and working out trades. If you feel like there are guys incapable of making good decisions then those guys should be out of the league. With the veto option in place, there's no crying about trades that get passed. I don't appreciate the idea that I constantly rip guys off. If that really was the case, then people would not trade with me.

Xiomera
08-15-2011, 06:24 PM
I did not veto the trade, but I agree with BF on every point he made.

GF overvalues prospects to the extreme if he believe Lawrie's value will surpass Uggla's value in the next 2-3 seasons.

That's all I will say. I'm not getting into another debate over who got the best of who in a trade.

Giantsfan1080
08-15-2011, 06:32 PM
Can we all please remember how terrible Uggla has been this year? Even with that incredible streak his numbers are garbage. You guys are making Uggla out to be someone he's not. Heck when I drafted him last year year ago it was late in the draft. You're telling me his value is higher now than last year?

Xiomera
08-15-2011, 06:36 PM
Can we all please remember how terrible Uggla has been this year? Even with that incredible streak his numbers are garbage. You guys are making Uggla out to be someone he's not. Heck when I drafted him last year year ago it was late in the draft. You're telling me his value is higher now than last year?

You confuse "real baseball" value with fantasy baseball value. Uggla is still in the Top Ten among 2nd baseman in value this season. He ranks 108 overall.

He contributes very well in 3 of 5 offensive categories (R, HR, RBI) for a 2B, and his OBP this season is an aberration (look at the numbers BF posted earlier).

Giantsfan1080
08-15-2011, 06:40 PM
You confuse "real baseball" value with fantasy baseball value. Uggla is still in the Top Ten among 2nd baseman in value this season. He ranks 108 overall.

He contributes very well in 3 of 5 offensive categories (R, HR, RBI) for a 2B, and his OBP this season is an aberration (look at the numbers BF posted earlier).

He's also going to be 32 next year and is starting to decline. Yes, his OBP as of right now is a aberration but even then it's still going to be mediocre at best by year end. Besides HR's next year Lawrie will have very similar numbers to Uggla if not better. I wasn't going anywhere this year and I got the younger player who's a hitting maching that also has 2B eligibility. I knew I was helping D out for the year but it's not like this was some highway robbery. A top 10 prospect for Dan Uggla is great value.

bearsfan_51
08-15-2011, 06:43 PM
I'm not faulting you D. I envy you.

Xiomera
08-15-2011, 06:45 PM
He's also going to be 32 next year and is starting to decline. Yes, his OBP as of right now is a aberration but even then it's still going to be mediocre at best by year end. Besides HR's next year Lawrie will have very similar numbers to Uggla if not better. I wasn't going anywhere this year and I got the younger player who's a hitting maching that also has 2B eligibility. I knew I was helping D out for the year but it's not like this was some highway robbery. A top 10 prospect for Dan Uggla is great value.

Agree to disagree. I do hope you find yourself in the top 6 of next year's standings or your conviction in these conversations will look silly.

bearsfan_51
08-15-2011, 06:46 PM
He's also going to be 32 next year and is starting to decline. Yes, his OBP as of right now is a aberration but even then it's still going to be mediocre at best by year end. Besides HR's next year Lawrie will have very similar numbers to Uggla if not better.
And what if he's not, and is Andy LaRoche instead? You had 100 dollars in your hand, and traded it to someone who had a briefcase that maybe had 100 dollars, or maybe was empty.

Xiomera
08-15-2011, 06:52 PM
I love a good analogy.

Giantsfan1080
08-15-2011, 06:55 PM
So going by that you should never have any young prospects or players on your team. Got it. Lawrie is as close to a guaranteed hitting prospect as there is. It's not like I traded him for a 20 year old in A ball.

Giantsfan1080
08-15-2011, 06:56 PM
Agree to disagree. I do hope you find yourself in the top 6 of next year's standings or your conviction in these conversations will look silly.

Well I still need to put together a better pitching staff but I should be top 6 in most offensive stats. If Crawford didn't totally **** the bed this year I'd be a lot better off also.

bearsfan_51
08-15-2011, 07:00 PM
No, you should never trade a really good fantasy player for a prospect, unless that prospect is Strasburg or maybe David Price.

Also, why do you think Lawrie is what you say he is? He's not a Jay Bruce type prospect. He's not even a Cameron Maybin type prospect.

I used to have the same rationale, and then I watched Xio win by picking up unsexy vets that nobody else wanted. The biggest reason I'm winning this year is because I drafted Berkman higher than anyone else would, I traded for David Ortiz when D thought his season was over (HA!) and I picked up Michael Cuddyer and Coco Crisp when somebody else didn't want them.

D-Unit
08-15-2011, 07:00 PM
And what if he's not, and is Andy LaRoche instead? You had 100 dollars in your hand, and traded it to someone who had a briefcase that maybe had 100 dollars, or maybe was empty.
You don't sound like a guy who was interested in starting up an AL only league where developing minors was the biggest draw.

Can you stop acting like prospects have no place/no value in fantasy baseball?

D-Unit
08-15-2011, 07:02 PM
No, you should never trade a really good fantasy player for a prospect, unless that prospect is Strasburg or maybe David Price.

Also, why do you think Lawrie is what you say he is? He's not a Jay Bruce type prospect. He's not even a Cameron Maybin type prospect.

I used to have the same rationale, and then I watched Xio win by picking up unsexy vets that nobody else wanted. The biggest reason I'm winning this year is because I drafted Berkman higher than anyone else would, I traded for David Ortiz when D thought his season was over (HA!) and I picked up Michael Cuddyer and Coco Crisp when somebody else didn't want them.
Actually, I very much knew the value of Ortiz, but he only qualifies at UTIL and I didn't like the flexibility that that took away. Also, at the time I had Travis Hafner who was having a decent beginning to the season and he only qualified at UTIL as well.

bearsfan_51
08-15-2011, 07:03 PM
You don't sound like a guy who was interested in starting up an AL only league where developing minors was the biggest draw.

Can you stop acting like prospects have no place/no value in fantasy baseball?
I LOVE following and developing prospects, you're right. It's why I created the whole "minor league" roster system.

That doesn't mean you trade established quality players for them.

D-Unit
08-15-2011, 07:04 PM
I love a good analogy.
...when it fits your point of view. ;)

I'll ask you and BF... what would you offer me for Uggla?

Come children...let's not run and hide now...

Xiomera
08-15-2011, 07:05 PM
You don't sound like a guy who was interested in starting up an AL only league where developing minors was the biggest draw.

Can you stop acting like prospects have no place/no value in fantasy baseball?

TWO COMPLETELY DIFFERENT LEAGUES.

Prospects have value in a league half as deep (AL Only). And yet I am going to win that league for the second straight year by a wide margin without giving two shits about prospects. I basically ignore them completely.

BF has it totally right. If you want to toil in the bottom third of the standings forever, then by all means, hoard prospects. But if you want to win, then go for guys that produce now.

I'm going to laugh so hard when you guys are leaving productive veterans off your keeper list in favor of unproven prospects. A 2-month glimmer of potential is not enough to justify casting aside a reliable veteran.

bearsfan_51
08-15-2011, 07:07 PM
...when it fits your point of view. ;)

I'll ask you and BF... what would you offer me for Uggla?

Come children...let's not run and hide now...
D, you know that you agree with me. Stop trying so hard.

Personally it's hard to answer because I have Robinson Cano.

Xiomera
08-15-2011, 07:10 PM
Wait a minute! What am I doing giving away all of my secrets to success!?

GASP!

[/sarcasm]

D-Unit
08-15-2011, 07:10 PM
I'm not faulting you D. I envy you.
That is an awesome quote! :)

I find trading is a matter of asking and working things out. Most of the time, nothing works out, but if you don't ask, you don't know. I never feel cocky enough to ever think that I don't need a trade because my team is doing good enough. It makes me feel unsettled, so I keep my wheels churning. You do it enough, good things can happen.