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View Full Version : The Calvin Johnson debate


DraftMichaelHuff
03-22-2007, 04:24 AM
i dunno if im doin the right thing here or not, i just thought it might be an idea to start one thread where we (and other teams fans) talk about the possibilities FOR and AGAIST trading up for Calvin Johnson.

Im 100% against it and it may seem ironic me starting a thread about it but this site is the best place to discuss the falcons as AFMB is full of "anti-vick", "pro-shaub" (NOT ANYMORE *EVIL LAUGH*) and more recently "trade the entire draft away for Calvin" posters. Sense the move to #8 i feel more and more people will suspect/hope for a move and i would like to be able to talk/speculate about our draft in other threads without CJ trades constantly coming up which i fear it will (see AFMB).

So yeh im a NO vote simply because of our major needs in other areas and the fact that Hue Jackson should be able to work his magic with our wide recievers.

Preach on!

DraftMichaelHuff
03-22-2007, 04:35 AM
* The speculation about Atlanta dealing up for Calvin Johnson has already begun and while they now certainly have the ammo to get that type of deal done it would cost a king's ransom. In fact, to get up to #2 overall the Falcons would likely have to part with their 1st rounder, both 2nd rounders and their 3rd rounder. Is CJ worth it? Maybe. Do I see them paying that kind of price to move up for him? Nope. However it's now at least a possibility so let the rumors swirl. ------ from Scott Wright's blog

catcher_0_3
03-22-2007, 06:21 AM
This might need to be a sticky it's going to get heated all the way up to the draft and afterwards. I'll come back with my thoughts a little later.

D-Rod
03-22-2007, 08:51 AM
Good idea to have a thread about it.

I used to think that it was ridiculous, but I've considered the ammo we now have, and there is a scenario which would work, without us "selling the draft":

Taking CJ is unlikely, but possible if he falls to No.3.

The Browns would probably still get AD at #8, so they'd definitely be interested, at the right price.

I could live with this:

Browns get #8, #39, and Texans 2nd next year (we have two now anyway) (total value = 2330)

Falcons get #3, and #99 (total value = 2304) [I'd even settle without the extra 4th, since we already have three!, which would put the value at 2200]

That looks like too little, but it works value-wise, and there's no reason the Browns wouldn't want to move to #8.

We would then have #3, #44, #75, FOUR 4th rounders, a 5th, 6th and 7th. Not exactly selling the draft, eh? Basically, we'd have got #3 for #10 and Schaub.

Of course, then: if the first two picks were the Qbs, I'd actually have a hard time choosing between CJ and Joe Thomas...

D-Rod
03-22-2007, 08:56 AM
The problem would then be that we need immediate starters at FS and LDE (unless, somehow, Davis or Crocker step up to the plate...).

I'd take CJ or Crowder in the 2nd, and then potentially use 4th rounders as ammo to move up to grab the last startable safety, like Weddle, at the end of the 2nd.

georgiafan
03-22-2007, 09:09 AM
I am also agianst the trade as we have to many holes to fill. The only way I would be up for it is if we can trade with the bucs. That way we would only have to give up a second round pick.

Vickissick07
03-22-2007, 09:10 AM
I would almost rather trade down with NE if they are wishing to trade up. We get #24 and #28 and they get #8. Adds up perfectly on the chart too.

In the first we then take Chris Houston and Michael Griffin (merriweather), then in the 2nd we take Blaylock and Charles Johnson. Rest of the draft can fall where it may. We address all of our needs and after the 2nd, can begin building on depth.

georgiafan
03-22-2007, 09:12 AM
I don't want to drop down to # 24 unless we cna package those picks and move backup to the middle of round 1.

Vickissick07
03-22-2007, 09:14 AM
I don't want to drop down to # 24 unless we cna package those picks and move backup to the middle of round 1.

Who is so great at the middle of the round that won't be there towards the end at a position of need of ours? S, DE, OL, WR (Like it or not)

D-Rod
03-22-2007, 09:16 AM
I am also agianst the trade as we have to many holes to fill. The only way I would be up for it is if we can trade with the bucs. That way we would only have to give up a second round pick.

bucs would never trade with us.

if JW moves to FS, then trading down to 24 and 28 suddenly makes a lot more sense.

We could get Staley at #24, Houston/Revis/Ross at #28, Charles Johnson at #39, and Blalock at #44. Sweet.

Vickissick07
03-22-2007, 09:26 AM
bucs would never trade with us.

if JW moves to FS, then trading down to 24 and 28 suddenly makes a lot more sense.

We could get Staley at #24, Houston/Revis/Ross at #28, Charles Johnson at #39, and Blalock at #44. Sweet.

Pretty much what I said. If Jwill moved to safety and was effective, we could have a scary secondary. I still think we should take a safety of some type in those first 4 picks (if we trade down) Griffin would be a nice prospect to groom behind Milloy and he can play CB if things get sticky with injuries and such.

georgiafan
03-22-2007, 09:36 AM
The more I think about it, that wouldn't be to bad to trade with the patriots. We could fill all of our needs in the first 2 rounds. We would still then use the rest of the draft for depth and BPA.

Vickissick07
03-22-2007, 09:52 AM
Do we already have 3 4th round picks or is it 2?

georgiafan
03-22-2007, 10:00 AM
Do we already have 3 4th round picks or is it 2?


we have 2 in the 4th

Vickissick07
03-22-2007, 10:00 AM
we have 2 in the 4th

Wouldn't it be nice to have 2 picks in the first 4 rounds?

Shiver
03-22-2007, 12:46 PM
I would be disgusted if they traded their whole day-1, which is what it would take, to get Calvin Johnson. Because that means Arthur Blank is calling the shots, and is more worried about appeasing fans, than winning football games. WR isn't even in the top-6 needs for the Falcons. They would have to leave gaping holes at most of them. They would be just as stupid as the Saints, when they traded everything for Ricky Williams.

I HATE THE IDEA
I HATE THE IDEA
I HATE THE IDEA

Winning teams, like New England, stockpile young picks, and constantly reload.

Vickissick07
03-22-2007, 12:57 PM
I would be disgusted if they traded their whole day-1, which is what it would take, to get Calvin Johnson. Because that means Arthur Blank is calling the shots, and is more worried about appeasing fans, than winning football games. WR isn't even in the top-6 needs for the Falcons. They would have to leave gaping holes at most of them. They would be just as stupid as the Saints, when they traded everything for Ricky Williams.

I HATE THE IDEA
I HATE THE IDEA
I HATE THE IDEA

Winning teams, like New England, stockpile young picks, and constantly reload.

We could put a package together that is = to the pick we would be trading for and still have a pick in every round.

Shiver
03-22-2007, 01:00 PM
There is no package like that, which exists. It would take at least both of the 2nd round picks. After the team drafts Calvin Johnson, how, pray tell, is the team going to get quality future starters at LT, LG, FS, LE? It defies logic.

Mr. Myogi
03-22-2007, 01:02 PM
we have 2 in the 4th

We really don't know how many 4ths we have because they haven't announced the comp picks.............. which we are likely to get either a 3rd for Schaffer and 4th for Stokely or either two 4ths for both.

on another note we lost, I think a 7th with the Gandy trade, but will probably get it back for McAdam.

Shiver
03-22-2007, 01:05 PM
The fat of the matter is; the team is in perfect situation to address all of its needs. It is in the position to build a quality team for the future. Trading up for Calvin Johnson, won't rectify the serious issues on the team.

Mr. Myogi
03-22-2007, 01:12 PM
I wouldn't package all those picks for Calvin because WR is not a dying need for the Falcons...........now if he was to, somehow, fall into the Falcons laps then you have to go with the BPA rule..........But defense and OLine has too little depth for the Falcons to do something "BONEHEAD" like that.

Vickissick07
03-22-2007, 01:18 PM
There is no package like that, which exists. It would take at least both of the 2nd round picks. After the team drafts Calvin Johnson, how, pray tell, is the team going to get quality future starters at LT, LG, FS, LE? It defies logic.

I never said I wanted it to happen. Personally I would rather trade down for NE's #24 and #28.

Shiver
03-22-2007, 01:29 PM
I was just venting. I am sick of this rumor, and would be disgusted if it were true.

Shiver
03-22-2007, 01:30 PM
I think they should pass (on Calvin Johnson). The offense, by most accounts, spreads the ball around. They have capable options in Jenkins/White/Horn/Finneran. They have more pressing needs up front (OL looks fairly weak, and DL isn't strong either, with Grady off surgery, Abraham and his brittle body, Babineaux's issues, and lack of overall quality depth), secondary (could use a safety and a corner really). LB depth would also be nice, and they do need a big back as well for the new schemes. I just don't think WR makes sense.

I couldn't agree more so.

iloxygenil
03-22-2007, 02:43 PM
I am not looking to trade up, but I would be very happy if we did as well...it is going to be very hard not to LOVE having CJ on our squad...even if it costs us a pick or two I still would love to have him. I'd rather figure out a deal to ship someone to Oakland that had some value to them...I'm not sure who it would be, but someone to help their offense, since we want to unload some of them anyway, I'm really not sure who we have left that we could move without cutting into our core of players. We'll see who Knapp comes calling for and who we could part with, but i like the idea of having 3 new starters coming out of this draft...especially if 2 of them are defense and 1 of them is offensive line.

honest_abe
03-22-2007, 03:36 PM
NO WAY do you trade up to get a guy that will in the best case scenario touch the ball 8 times a game. add to the fact you've already spent two first round picks on receivers and that is suicide. if the falcons do trade up to get cj.. i will have to seriously reconsider being a fan of this dump of a franchise.

atliens will forver be cursed. its the curse of general sherman. everything this city builds it will come burning down.

Shiver
03-22-2007, 04:44 PM
From Rich McKay;

"In this draft, what we like is we now possess four picks on the first day and have a chance for the fifth when the compensatory selections are awarded next week. That helps."

This team is gearing to revamp, and reload, the roster. They want to give Bobby Petrino as many picks as possible, to hasten the transition. Trading up for Calvin Johnson, would fly in the face of that strategy. You only go after one elite player, when you are one player away from success. This team has a lot of holes, elsewhere, that Calvin Johnson wouldn't fill.

SimonRath
03-22-2007, 08:15 PM
Hey I got a great idea..
We trade up and pick Calvin Johnson
We play him at WR on offense
Then on Defense we play him at S on 1st down, DE on 2nd down, and CB on 3rd down..
If we do that then it may be worth giving up 3 or 4 picks to get him LMAO

catcher_0_3
03-22-2007, 09:28 PM
After examining the Trade Value Chart, I was thinking. Let's say both Oakland and Detroit pass on Calvin. We could trade our #8 pick, we trade our 2nd round pick, and next year's 2nd round pick for Cleveland's pick. Now I'm not sure what the value is for a pick next year, but it has got to be right around the amount that would make this deal work. So we lose 1 of our 11 picks, o wow. Now you don't have to tell me how bad our O-line has been at pass protecting the last couple of years, but we have signed a couple of guys already and we could potentially sign another. Now if we do in fact sign Mulitalo then would yall really have a problem not drafting 8 lineman? We would have 4 starters if not 5 with just that, and 2-3 suitable backups.
LT- Gandy
LG- 1. Mulitalo 2. Fonotoni
C- 1. McClure 2.
RG- 1. Clabo 2. Forney 3. Omiyale
RT- 1. Weiner 2. Ojinnaka

It looks to me as though we have 5 capable guards if we do in fact sign Mulitalo, if we don't then we have 4 capable guards. We do need a center, and we do need a tackle I will give everyone that.

So how about this

1. Calvin Johnson
2. Brandon Merriweather/ Eric Weddle/ Eric Wright, w/e we decide that we need
3. Baraka Atkins
4. Manuel Ramirez
4. Ryan Harris/Doug Free
4. Kenny Scott
5. Kolby Smith
6. Dan Mozes
7. Jon Abbate
7. Joe Cohen

Now what is that draft missing? I'm sorry that I think that Calvin Johnson will help this team more than anyone else in the draft. The Falcons are not that bad, we do not need 4 picks in the first two rounds to fill all of the wholes we have. If MV7 can play up to his potential and our D starts playing like a defense, then we can go as far as we want to.

iloxygenil
03-22-2007, 09:40 PM
Calvin would be amazing but it would cost us a king's ransom to get him. That would be a great draft...but I just don't think that's going to happen...I think we stick and we do even bette.