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Black Bolt
02-21-2011, 09:31 AM
From Rotoworld

Beat writer Rich Cimini calls DE Vernon Gholston "a goner."
As Cimini points out, "If Rex Ryan can't get it out of [Gholston], no one can. It's time to cut bait." GM Mike Tannenbaum has already hinted that the team may be ready to move on and they can do so cheaply. The 2008 No. 6 overall pick has now failed as both a defensive end and an outside linebacker.

Has there been more misprojected pick in terms of a guy who just plain couldn't play? No drug issues, no development issues, measurables are off the scales, but flat out can't play? Even my boy Gallery showed he could be a quality LG as opposed to LT.

SenorGato
02-21-2011, 09:37 AM
Gholston is a mystery to me...best I can think of is that he's very soft....met him once and that's definitely the impression I got...

killxswitch
02-21-2011, 09:46 AM
He'll be fine if the Saints pick him up and play him at 4-3 end.

</idiot>

SolidGold
02-21-2011, 10:03 AM
One of the biggest busts ever IMO.

Adheres to the "Looks like Tarzan, plays like Jane" philosophy. I hope they put him in front of Mike Mamula as the example of workout warrior since Mamula did have a pretty decent career.

jrdrylie
02-21-2011, 10:21 AM
I certainly wouldn't mind if the Bears signed him to an incentive-loaded deal. It would be low risk and he could learn a thing or two from Peppers.

phlysac
02-21-2011, 11:01 AM
Aaron Maybin is working hard to be a strong contender for this title.

descendency
02-21-2011, 11:14 AM
Gholston is a mystery to me...best I can think of is that he's very soft....met him once and that's definitely the impression I got...

Warren Sapp said he is afraid of contact.

Black Bolt
02-21-2011, 11:17 AM
He'll be fine if the Saints pick him up and play him at 4-3 end.

</idiot>

Or maybe not.

Black Bolt
02-21-2011, 11:19 AM
One of the biggest busts ever IMO.

Adheres to the "Looks like Tarzan, plays like Jane" philosophy. I hope they put him in front of Mike Mamula as the example of workout warrior since Mamula did have a pretty decent career.

Courtney Brown was another head scratcher, but he didn't have the off the wall measurables Gholston had.

DeathbyStat
02-21-2011, 11:24 AM
The guy is still going to be garbage but maybe he could work as a pass rush specialist in the 4-3 10-15 snaps a game.

PossibleCabbage
02-21-2011, 11:32 AM
The guy is still going to be garbage but maybe he could work as a pass rush specialist in the 4-3 10-15 snaps a game.

Which part makes you think he will be effective as a pass rusher: His career 24 solo tackles, or the two preseason sacks he has recorded over his career?

cajuncorey
02-21-2011, 11:33 AM
Courtney Brown was another head scratcher, but he didn't have the off the wall measurables Gholston had.

im pretty sure these are pretty off the wall and very comparable to gholston

At the Penn State pro day Brown measured 6'4⅞" 271-pounds, ran a 4.52 seconds forty-yard dash, had a vertical leap of 37" and bench-pressed 225 pounds 26 times.

as well if were going on plays with measurables that NO ONE should EVER draft add ALLEN BAILEY to the list

brasho
02-21-2011, 11:55 AM
I'd love to see the Bucs bring him in for a low cost look as a 4-3 RDE. If he performs well good for us, if not he gets cut. He's still got speed, agility, and weighroom strength. I think he struggled as a 3-4 OLB because it required too much thought and couldn't be a 3-4 DE because it was too physically demanding. In a one-gap 4-3 scheme he wouldn't have to think much and it would take advantage of his one skill, getting upfield, and allow him a better opportunity for success.

descendency
02-21-2011, 12:17 PM
Which part makes you think he will be effective as a pass rusher: His career 24 solo tackles, or the two preseason sacks he has recorded over his career?

Muscles!!!!!!!!!!!!

Complex
02-21-2011, 12:26 PM
Courtney Brown had bad knees

Veron should try to become a 4-3 DE.

P-L
02-21-2011, 12:47 PM
The guy is still going to be garbage but maybe he could work as a pass rush specialist in the 4-3 10-15 snaps a game.
How can someone who can't rush the passer be a pass rush specialist?

Black Bolt
02-21-2011, 01:21 PM
I'd love to see the Bucs bring him in for a low cost look as a 4-3 RDE. If he performs well good for us, if not he gets cut. He's still got speed, agility, and weighroom strength. I think he struggled as a 3-4 OLB because it required too much thought and couldn't be a 3-4 DE because it was too physically demanding. In a one-gap 4-3 scheme he wouldn't have to think much and it would take advantage of his one skill, getting upfield, and allow him a better opportunity for success.

Agility? That's a big no. No motor or pass rush moves either.

TACKLE
02-21-2011, 01:25 PM
How can someone who can't rush the passer be a pass rush specialist?

His career sack numbers disagree.[/sarcasm]

Crickett
02-21-2011, 01:33 PM
I'd love to see the Bucs bring him in for a low cost look as a 4-3 RDE. If he performs well good for us, if not he gets cut. He's still got speed, agility, and weighroom strength.

He does????

Saints-Tigers
02-21-2011, 01:45 PM
He still is worth a shot in the 4-3, what's it going to hurt?

I don't think the "if Rex Ryan can't do it" is a good argument, Rex's scheme isn't exactly simple, and to be honest, I don't see him as some epic player developer, he's fallen into pretty good pass rushers, or had resources(like Revis) that allow him to bring plenty of heat without great rushers.

Not an excuse for Gholston, who has been an utter bust, but some guys can definitely coach technique better than Rex I'd think.

Matthew Jones
02-21-2011, 01:49 PM
It's time to give up. This guy couldn't do anything for Mangini or Ryan, two of the top defensive minds in the business (this is the part where I jump out of a window for praising both of those guys in the same sentence.)

killxswitch
02-21-2011, 02:06 PM
Or maybe not.

It was a tongue-in-cheek reference to a thread that got out of control about a year ago. No hate directed at you.

Black Bolt
02-21-2011, 02:18 PM
It was a tongue-in-cheek reference to a thread that got out of control about a year ago. No hate directed at you.

Oh, I didn't take it any sort of way. I was on record as saying that the only way he COULD be productive coming out was as a 4-3 end. Mayock said he could play in a 3-4 about 92 times.

ChiFan24
02-21-2011, 02:44 PM
I say he should sign with the Eagles and see if Washburn can get anything out of him. That's literally his only chance at becoming a decent player, IMO.

Hurricanes25
02-21-2011, 02:49 PM
Veron should try to become a 4-3 DE.

That's basically his final option. He has failed miserably in the 3-4 at both DE and OLB. Personally, I don't think he'll do much better in the 4-3. The guy just doesn't want it and he doesn't seem to care.

SenorGato
02-21-2011, 03:17 PM
Warren Sapp said he is afraid of contact.

Probably...he's just not violent/crazy enough...he's actually a really strong anchor and does alright against the run for us...even has seen a snap or two at NT...but the guy was drafted to get TEH SACKZ and it hasn't happened...I do think some a-hole team will pick him up and suddenly the light will turn on a little bit...3 years of coaching and training can't lead to absolutely nothing (not even a f*ckin injury to explain it)....right?

Complex
02-21-2011, 03:21 PM
Jim Washburn will make him into a star or at worst(besides doing nothing) into 6 sacks a season guy.

Crickett
02-21-2011, 04:15 PM
Jim Washburn will make him into a star or at worst(besides doing nothing) into 6 sacks a season guy.

I would be surprised if this happened. From what I've seen of Gholston, I have difficulty believing this guy was as good as he was at Ohio State. He struck me as someone who without pressure from elsewhere to force the sack to him, he could somehow be eluded by a one legged Byron Leftwich.

TheFinisher
02-21-2011, 04:41 PM
Courtney Brown was another head scratcher, but he didn't have the Arnold Schwartzenegger biceps Gholston had.

This is probably what you meant.

RealityCheck
02-21-2011, 05:01 PM
Never liked him at OSU, never liked him during the draft process and still don't like him.

J52
02-21-2011, 05:05 PM
I just don't understand how you can be the most physically gifted person on the field at all times and also the worst player. That's just... amazing. He ran a 4.58 at 270. Unreal. Put him at fullback or something.

nofalcons10
02-25-2011, 09:03 AM
He'll be fine if the Saints pick him up and play him at 4-3 end.

</idiot>



slick.

who knows? maybe he is a bust. maybe he isn't but i'm not ready to write him off until he gets a full season at 4-3. perhaps even two.

3 of mario williams' 4.5 sacks came on 1st down when he was a rookie and his other half sack came on second and only one on 3rd while taking many more snaps in a 4-3 than gholston.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/splits?playerId=9587&sYear=2006

Gholston was a similar power rusher to williams and from what i hear from jets fans he was put in occasionally to rush the qb on 3rd.


Sometimes it takes less time for power rushers like with carlos dunlap who had 5 sacks on 3rd down as a rookie, sometimes it takes more like williams. One year a 4-3 end like will smith can have only 3 sacks (like 2008) and 13 in the next then it's right back to 5.5 again. You just never know until it happens.

I just wish that i were psychic like some of the folks here with all the green bars to say for certain.


I'm not going to get into this debate again.

killxswitch
02-25-2011, 09:12 AM
Nothing psychic about it. I thought Gholston would be a stud in the NFL. He has had 3 years and hasn't done ANYTHING.

You're not going to get into this debate again? So what, you just want to get your point of view out there but don't want any consequences or disagreement?

bigbluedefense
02-25-2011, 09:16 AM
I was a Gholston fan coming out bc I loved his measurables.

But I remember watching the first Jets PS game and was like UH OH...you could tell RIGHT away he was going to be a bust.

I have never in my life, seen a football player go out of his way to avoid contact like he did. He was the laziest player I've ever seen in my life.

It was so bad, I thought he was a bust from that moment. And many Jets fans felt the same way. It really was that bad.

nofalcons10
02-25-2011, 09:21 AM
Nothing psychic about it. I thought Gholston would be a stud in the NFL. He has had 3 years and hasn't done ANYTHING.

You're not going to get into this debate again? So what, you just want to get your point of view out there but don't want any consequences or disagreement?

My point of view is to take the wait-and-see approach. There is no way to "win" this argument until gholston goes to the 4-3 and either produces or flames out there too. the endless debate seems pointless and tiresome.

I willingly concede that there is a possibility that he might be an utter failure there too. I did so in the second sentence of my last post. what more do you want? I'm only saying that im not 10,000% certain that the kid is a bust already just because he's failed in one scheme like many here seem to be.
If i had that kind of foresight i'd bet on games.


if that's idiotic then so be it.

Halsey
02-25-2011, 09:32 AM
Did anyone else read this thread and have an image in your mind of The Rock saying "Finally...the Jets have cut bait with Ghoooolston!!!"?

bigbluedefense
02-25-2011, 09:40 AM
Did anyone else read this thread and have an image in your mind of The Rock saying "Finally...the Jets have cut bait with Ghoooolston!!!"?

That's exactly what I did.

killxswitch
02-25-2011, 09:42 AM
My point of view is to take the wait-and-see approach. There is no way to "win" this argument until gholston goes to the 4-3 and either produces or flames out there too. the endless debate seems pointless and tiresome.

I willingly concede that there is a possibility that he might be an utter failure there too. I did so in the second sentence of my last post. what more do you want? I'm only saying that im not 10,000% certain that the kid is a bust already just because he's failed in one scheme like many here seem to be.
If i had that kind of foresight i'd bet on games.


if that's idiotic then so be it.

That seems like a much more reasonable approach than the one I seem to remember you taking in the last thread about this. Of course there is a chance he will improve in a 4-3. I highly doubt it but yeah there's a chance.

FUNBUNCHER
02-25-2011, 09:47 AM
In hindsight it was a mistake to try to convert him to 34 OLB, and he has one last chance to show something in a 43.

But is his heart in it anymore?? An athlete without swagger or the utmost confidence in their abilities is already done before he steps foot on a football field.

I don't see Gholston play with that arrogance or energy he had at OSU. I wonder if his experience with the Jets has broken his spirit.

He needs to go to a program like the Eagles or the Saints and focus on beating an OT one on one. That's it.

But I really question if Gholston is motivated anymore to achieve anything in pro football.

Just a scary miss on a prospect who looked like a future dominator.

descendency
02-25-2011, 09:51 AM
I have never in my life, seen a football player go out of his way to avoid contact like he did. He was the laziest player I've ever seen in my life.

Someone is happy you've forgotten about him:

http://www.slanchreport.com/images/stories/jamarcus-russell_copy_copy.jpg

That seems like a much more reasonable approach than the one I seem to remember you taking in the last thread about this. Of course there is a chance he will improve in a 4-3. I highly doubt it but yeah there's a chance.

There is a chance he goes to another team (even a 34 team) and causes Havock. Sometimes it just happens. He goes from playing on grass to playing on turf or visa versa. Or He gets a star on his helmet or takes it off. You know, things change. New coaches, new team-mates, better leadership.

But if I had to bet, I would bet against him being in the league in 3 years.

bigbluedefense
02-25-2011, 09:55 AM
Someone is happy you've forgotten about him:

http://www.slanchreport.com/images/stories/jamarcus-russell_copy_copy.jpg



There is a chance he goes to another team (even a 34 team) and causes Havock. Sometimes it just happens. He goes from playing on grass to playing on turf or visa versa. Or He gets a star on his helmet or takes it off. You know, things change. New coaches, new team-mates, better leadership.

But if I had to bet, I would bet against him being in the league in 3 years.

He's a quarterback though.

I'm talking about the rest of the positions. All of the rest of the positions deal with contact. Outside of qb, you're going to see contact as a football player.

Never have I seen a player try to avoid contact like him. He would just stand there. It was amazing to see.

Iamcanadian
02-26-2011, 12:43 AM
Just think, Mike Williams, Detroit's WR total bust, now suddenly out of no where, Seattle's #1 receiver. he will get a look by another 4-3 team, then it is up to him.

Flyboy
02-27-2011, 01:24 AM
Did anyone else read this thread and have an image in your mind of The Rock saying "Finally...the Jets have cut bait with Ghoooolston!!!"?

Haha, not quite, but I definitely had an WWF/WWE moment going on in my head.

And, HA. Jonathan Sullivan laughs at Vernon Ghloston's level of bust.

TNPatsFan
02-27-2011, 08:36 AM
Not to pat myself on the back or anything, but I never saw Gholston as a first round pick. I remember him frequently being mocked to my Patriots at number seven and that always scared me. He was a guy who looked great in workouts, but on the field he would make a handful of highlight plays over the course of a season but do absolutely nothing else the rest of the time.