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RaiderNation
02-25-2011, 03:07 AM
Whos it going to be?

Bowers could potentially be the next franchise DE following in the steps of Julius Peppers and could give them a great duo with Charles Johnson if he stays.

Fairley had a Ndamukong Suh type season last year in the SEC, but still have off the field questions and only 1 year of production similar to Bowers.

Newton is my clear #1 QB and I predict he will solidify himself as the top QB in the draft after the combine. If they dont believe in Clausen, I believe Newton has the 2nd highest potential in this draft behind Patrick Peterson.

Peterson is my clear cut #1 prospect, that plays at a position that it more of a 2nd level of important for football(QB,LT,DL are the 3 most important facots in football IMO). Peterson is a Charles Woodson type prospect IMO.

Green could make some sense if Steve Smith is gone, and would provide Clausen a #1 target to for the future.

Quinn could make some noise here at the combine with some great workout numbers and interviews. If he can show he can keep up the production he had from his Sophmore to the NFL, he could be taken ahead of Bowers.

Dareus isnt as flashy as Fairley, but looks to be a potential building piece for a defense 3-4 or 4-3. May be one of the safer prospects in this weak draft IMO.

What do you think? I think it comes down to Newton, Fairley and Bowers. I voted Newton though since I expect him to rise very high and have the hype for being the franchise type player.

diabsoule
02-25-2011, 09:27 AM
I'm going with A.J. Green. The future is uncertain with Steve Smith and even if they decide to keep him he'll be 32 at the start of next season and who do they have behind him? Armanti Edwards, Brandon LaFell? Yeah, not gonna get it done. Green is the best and safest prospect in this year's draft and will give Jimmy Clausen another weapon in the passing game which is desperately needed.

bigbluedefense
02-25-2011, 09:49 AM
I'd go with Peterson or Green.

I'd consider Robert Quinn too. I'm a big Quinn fan.

killxswitch
02-25-2011, 09:52 AM
They have several good DEs and with no Luck I doubt they'll take a QB at #1. Nick Fairley it is.

Halsey
02-25-2011, 09:58 AM
I'd just go QB if I was running the Panthers. There's no QB widely perceived to be worth the #1 pick, but teams just have to try to find a franchise QB in the NFL. Even if it means taking big risks. If a team is aggressive about trying to find a franchise QB, they'll eventually hit on a guy who can boost the organization for a decade.

brat316
02-25-2011, 10:06 AM
they should take Green. But I think they go defense. Should go BPA.

Don Vito
02-25-2011, 10:09 AM
Nick Fairley. They have needed help at DT for quite some time and I just really want to see Greg Hardy get a shot, so don't take a DE! Take a DT and make Hardy the best.

thenewfeature06
02-25-2011, 10:10 AM
I went with Bowers but wasn't too confident.. don't they like the youth they have at that position?

Fairley might scare them off a little and Bowers could be something special.

RaiderNation
02-28-2011, 08:10 PM
Update*****

After the combine(well still have DB's), do we now have a guy we think is the clear #1 pick?

I was disappointed Fairley showed up under 300, but he still looked good and a lock for the top 10.

Bowers showed up with his impressive 6'3 280lbs body. Didnt run so we have to wait until the pro day to see how he moves.

Newton made a mistake throwing at the combine, but he did test well.

Green ran a slower 40 than most thought, but I think he had a overall good combine.

Peterson hasnt ran yet but showed up at a 219lbs for a CB which is crazy. I expect him to run in the 4.4's tomorrow.

Quinn ay 6'4 265lbs with a 4.7 40 lived up to the hype. I still think he will be most effective in a 3-4 pass rushing role though

Dareus could have helped himself the most of these guys. 6'3 319lbs and still able to run a sub 5.

Grizzlegom
02-28-2011, 08:14 PM
Is it crazy for me to be leaning Gabbert right now?

RaiderNation
02-28-2011, 08:16 PM
Is it crazy for me to be leaning Gabbert right now?

I wouldnt call you crazy. This pick is still really up in the air, and mayb they are commited to taking a QB and Gabbert fits what they want compared to Newton.

Halsey
02-28-2011, 08:17 PM
Is it crazy for me to be leaning Gabbert right now?

No, I'm with you. Good chance I'll change my mind 1,000 time sover the next two months, however.

LizardState
02-28-2011, 08:54 PM
Fairley leading with >34% at this point.

Voted Fairley too. He's a goddamn animal, even at under 300 lbs.

TheFinisher
02-28-2011, 08:57 PM
Peterson, he's a generational type talent who has superstar written all over him. Plus he gives you the added value of returning punts.

He could be the next Deion Sanders(+ able to tackle), it's not too often you can say that about a prospect.

king2am
02-28-2011, 09:02 PM
Will? Da'Quan Bowers

Should? Patrick Peterson - best player in this draft.

bigbluedefense
02-28-2011, 09:08 PM
Right now, I'd say either Peterson or Quinn. Those are my guys. I wanna see Peterson run though.

I haven't checked out Gabbert though. And Daerius is starting to intrigue me.

Halsey
02-28-2011, 09:10 PM
If Patrick Peterson is going to be a 'shutdown CB' he likely won't be returning many kicks. Guys like Darelle Revis and Champ Bailey were great returners, but don't do it much in the NFL.

bigbluedefense
02-28-2011, 09:12 PM
The reason why I'm mostly against them getting Daerius or Fairley is bc I feel they can get a high quality DT in the 2nd.

This DT class is stacked.

MidwayMonster31
02-28-2011, 09:20 PM
^
The Patriots have their 2nd. I'll go with Quinn for this one, just a hunch.

dannyz
02-28-2011, 09:22 PM
If the Panthers take a QB this year it will set them back for a long time. I think they should go with who they have #1 on their board. My opinion would be Green so when you do take a QB he has someone to throw to. What are the Chances the Panthers end with a top 2 Pick next Year? Luck or Barkley would be the pick then.

Babylon
02-28-2011, 09:23 PM
Is it crazy for me to be leaning Gabbert right now?

Personally dont see a QB going until the Tennessee pick but i'm probably alone in that belief. Gabbert seems to be a bit of a mystery man. The media says he's the best of the QBs but then usually add they havent seen much of him. I did think he looked good athletically in comparison to an athletic group of QBs but to me he should have thrown.

thenewfeature06
02-28-2011, 09:23 PM
I found it funny Cam went like 11/21... with no defenders.. maybe a couple drops but uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhm.

Grizzle you bring up a good point, maybe Gabbert is an option for them.

the natural
02-28-2011, 09:30 PM
Gabbert is the first player they formally interviewed at Indy. FWTW. I think he would be odds on favorite, since the team was originally going to go with Andrew Luck and Blaine is a very similar QB. Gabbert was ahead of Luck up to about the mid point of the past college season. He started to get banged up and limped down the stretch. Prior to that Gabbert pretty much doubled Luck's numbers across the board in 2009, and was active in 2008 while Andrew redshirted. As recruits, Blaine was 5 star and the #1 pro style prospect, Luck was 4 star and the #4 pro style prospect. Gabbert is a bit bigger, a bit faster, a bit younger, and has a stronger arm than Luck.

Sarcastro
02-28-2011, 09:35 PM
Gabbert. I think Carolina will go QB. They will convince themselves that Gabbert has the tools and character to succeed in the NFL, but they won't be sure about Newton's character.

Babylon
02-28-2011, 09:39 PM
Gabbert would probably be a Tim Couch type pick. On so may levels i hope they take Gabbert but i doubt they will. Newton is not in play, he was all over the map this weekend.

the natural
02-28-2011, 09:47 PM
Gabbert. I think Carolina will go QB. They will convince themselves that Gabbert has the tools and character to succeed in the NFL, but they won't be sure about Newton's character.
I think a lot of teams will be unsure of Newton. That whole Team Newton thing is not attractive to NFL General Managers. They have to feel they have some control over a player they draft. Particularly when he is 21 years old and hasn't shown very good judgement in the past. Cam is always going to do what is best for Team Newton in the short term. Without regard to long term consequences or consideration as to how it affects others.

JHL6719
03-01-2011, 02:30 AM
Interesting question. This is as wide open, and big of a toss up at the #1 pick as I can remember. Carolina could literally address any one of five positions with this pick.

Don't think they'll go quarterback though. I'd go Dareus or A.J. Green. Gun to my head I'll say Dareus.

LizardState
03-01-2011, 09:34 AM
I think a lot of teams will be unsure of Newton. That whole Team Newton thing is not attractive to NFL General Managers. They have to feel they have some control over a player they draft. Particularly when he is 21 years old and hasn't shown very good judgement in the past. Cam is always going to do what is best for Team Newton in the short term. Without regard to long term consequences or consideration as to how it affects others.

ESPN yesterday showed the NC game play where he disregarded the play from the Auburn bench & didnt take a knee as ordered, he tried to run it in for more points like a gloryboy dickhead.

That kind of crap lingers in the memories of NFL HCs & scouts, he does that in the NFL & he will get benched faster than a speeding bullet.

Yes Newton was all over the place with the press & the Combine this weekend but, on balance, he has more to overcome than any other player there too. IDK if he showed enough stuff to convince the GMs & HCs he warrants a roll of the dice & a #1 pick.

About this thread, no it won't be Carolina, but I could see Zona taking him b/c they're desperate for a starting QB & have a long organizational history of clueless picks.

bitonti
03-01-2011, 09:38 AM
if it was up to the masses it would be any1 but Cam Newton.

Ron Rivera seemed to be talking himself into the pick, before NEwton worked out.

TACKLE
03-01-2011, 10:32 AM
if it was up to the masses it would be any1 but Cam Newton.

Ron Rivera seemed to be talking himself into the pick, before NEwton worked out.

That's a good way to put it. I'd be surprised if the pick ended up being anyone other than Newton.

bitonti
03-01-2011, 10:47 AM
That's a good way to put it. I'd be surprised if the pick ended up being anyone other than Newton.

part of it is Newton but the other part is no clear "Mario Williams" or "jake Long" type of player that deserves #1 instead. Fairley measured short. Bowers has Clemson black cloud over his head. Gabbert maybe... but who else deserves #1? It's not like there's a Ndamukong Suh in this draft that is a no brainer (and even he didn't go #1).

put it another way I don't think they lose 14 games again with cam Newton (or Locker, Gabbert, Mallett) but they could lose 15 games if they stick with Clausen. they need a real QB... now.

SimonRath
03-01-2011, 12:08 PM
Gabbert is the first player they formally interviewed at Indy. FWTW. I think he would be odds on favorite, since the team was originally going to go with Andrew Luck and Blaine is a very similar QB. Gabbert was ahead of Luck up to about the mid point of the past college season. He started to get banged up and limped down the stretch. Prior to that Gabbert pretty much doubled Luck's numbers across the board in 2009, and was active in 2008 while Andrew redshirted. As recruits, Blaine was 5 star and the #1 pro style prospect, Luck was 4 star and the #4 pro style prospect. Gabbert is a bit bigger, a bit faster, a bit younger, and has a stronger arm than Luck.

hop off Gabberts d!cK! being a 5star recruit instead of a 4 star doesn't mean ****.

the natural
03-01-2011, 04:18 PM
Ron Rivera seemed to be talking himself into the pick, before NEwton worked out.

The only reason Rivera talked about Newton in that inteview was because he was SPECIFICALLY ASKED about Newton. Twice. He made sure to add that he was considering "several other" quarterbacks and mentioned Locker and Gabbert by name. It's a bit of an urban myth. Ron was directly queried about Newton, said all the usual things, and all of a sudden he was "sold" on the guy. Not at all.

the natural
03-01-2011, 04:19 PM
hop off Gabberts d!cK! being a 5star recruit instead of a 4 star doesn't mean ****.

Read the forum rules, pal. You have a different opinion, fine. Learn to express it like an adult.

TACKLE
03-02-2011, 08:07 PM
I'd say I'm about 90% sure that this pick will be a QB.

toonsterwu
03-02-2011, 08:21 PM
I believe (hunch/gut feeling) that Marcell Dareus currently leads the Panthers board, but in the end, I think they will talk themselves into going with a QB here, and probably Blaine Gabbert.

I don't love Gabbert. I view Gabbert and Newton relatively close together. Newton has some advantages (better release point, cleaner motion), but Gabbert has more pocket poise, sees the field a bit better.

the natural
03-02-2011, 09:09 PM
Pat Kirwan has Gabbert going #3, Newton #4. Or at least to Buffalo and Cincy. I guess one team or other could move up in the draft to get their pick. Mariucci has Gabbert going to the Cards at #5, no Newton in his top 10.

REDSKINSWARRIOR82
03-02-2011, 09:15 PM
i Say Cam Newton, because qbs go high. and he is a physical freak.

the natural
03-02-2011, 11:39 PM
i Say Cam Newton, because qbs go high. and he is a physical freak.

I was looking back at QB combine numbers and Duante Culpepper ran 4.55 at 255 pounds. With a 39" vertical! Plus the guy could throw the ball into the next county. Newton is certainly not more of a physical freak than he was.

SimonRath
03-02-2011, 11:41 PM
I was looking back at QB combine numbers and Duante Culpepper ran 4.55 at 255 pounds. With a 39" vertical! Plus the guy could throw the ball into the next county. Newton is certainly not more of a physical freak than he was.

you just got punked!!

Roddoliver
03-02-2011, 11:46 PM
1st overall pick? Cam Newton. Is he the right choice? I don't know. But the new head coach will want his QB and I believe it will be Newton. You already know the drill. Newton will shine during his Pro Day, wow everyone with his arm and athleticism, etc... Stock will rise again, one good interview and that's it.

Halsey
03-03-2011, 12:00 AM
I'd take Gabbert right now. He's got the physical tools and seems to be intelligent with no character flags. Bradford and McCoy are evidence that Big 12 QBs from spread offenses can succeed in the NFL. If not Gabbert, I'm leaning Dareus.

GoRavens
03-03-2011, 12:10 AM
I'd trade the pick to Jerry Jones.
He'll get Patrick Peterson #1, of course.

the natural
03-03-2011, 01:05 AM
I think there is only about 50% chance that Carolina keeps the pick. The #3, #4, and #5 teams picking in the draft all are in the market for a QB. Seems like a good chance that Carolina, and possibly Denver as well, trade down with their picks. Beyond the #5 pick, you have San Fran at #7, Tennessee #8, Dallas #9, and Washington #10. Any one of those teams might be inclined to trade up for a QB if they could. With a lively auction going on, Carolina and Denver will likely get very good offers and still be able to choose from the top defensive talent available.

The logical thing for Carolina to do, when you think about it, is to get a veteran through free agency or trade to carry the team for another year or two until a definite judgement can be made on Clausen. Remember, Jimmy was rated as highly last year going into the draft as Newton and Gabbert are this year.

bitonti
03-03-2011, 12:48 PM
until a definite judgement can be made on Clausen.

the jury is in... clausen sux.

SimonRath
03-03-2011, 12:49 PM
I think there is only about 50% chance that Carolina keeps the pick. The #3, #4, and #5 teams picking in the draft all are in the market for a QB. Seems like a good chance that Carolina, and possibly Denver as well, trade down with their picks. Beyond the #5 pick, you have San Fran at #7, Tennessee #8, Dallas #9, and Washington #10. Any one of those teams might be inclined to trade up for a QB if they could. With a lively auction going on, Carolina and Denver will likely get very good offers and still be able to choose from the top defensive talent available.

The logical thing for Carolina to do, when you think about it, is to get a veteran through free agency or trade to carry the team for another year or two until a definite judgement can be made on Clausen. Remember, Jimmy was rated as highly last year going into the draft as Newton and Gabbert are this year.

cause it is soooo easy to trade the 1st pick..

Mr.Regular
03-03-2011, 12:56 PM
Crazy how many options there are for #1 right now...it's probably going to come down to one of the elite Dlinemen or a QB.
Bowers, Dareus, Fairley, Newton, or Gabbert... I'd put my money on Newton right now, but it seems no one has a good read on the situation.

descendency
03-03-2011, 01:02 PM
Marcell Dareus > Nick Fairley.

DT is the biggest need in Carolina (outside of QB - but none of these guys are worth a #1 overall).

AJ Green is intriguing, but they do have a bunch of young WRs. They may opt for a few veterans instead.

Patrick Peterson is an option, definitely.

I can't see a LDE or a rush LB going #1 overall to Carolina.

The only 3 picks I could see are Dareus, Peterson, or Green and I am leaning towards Dareus.

the natural
03-03-2011, 01:19 PM
the jury is in... clausen sux.

Clausen had better rookie numbers than John Elway did.

SimonRath
03-03-2011, 01:58 PM
Clausen had better rookie numbers than John Elway did.

worst ******* argument ever.. tons of QB's had better rookie numbers then elway did but almost none are better.

Babylon
03-03-2011, 02:23 PM
Clausen had better rookie numbers than John Elway did.

Really?

Elway, 47.5% 151ypg, 7-14 Td-Int (1-2 ratio) Broncos 9-7

Clausen, 52.5% 119ypg 3-9 Td-int (1-3 ratio) Panthers 2-14

Iamcanadian
03-03-2011, 03:38 PM
Poll is weak without Gabbert's name on it. He is still very much in the running.

San Diego Chicken
03-03-2011, 03:51 PM
Similar situation Miami was in a few years ago. No clear cut #1 player, so they went with Jake Long, not the flashiest pick but a relatively safe one that would be a stalwart for a long time. Some people say they should have picked Ryan instead, but Miami's been a pretty good team without Ryan. The closest thing to that type of a pick this year is Dareus, again not a flashy pick, but a guy you can feel reasonably confident in to help your team immediately.

Babylon
03-03-2011, 04:21 PM
Poll is weak without Gabbert's name on it. He is still very much in the running.

I dont think it will be Gabbert but i agree with you that he should be in the poll.

Gabbert continues to see his stock rise without really doing anything, if the draft were in July he'd probably be a lock for the top spot.

PiedmontPanther
03-03-2011, 06:49 PM
I think it'll be Dareus or Gabbert.

If Gabbert looks like a franchise QB and has a good pro day,they'll jump on that.If not they'll go Dareus he's a little safer pick IMO.

They weigh character VERY high here.

tenorx
03-03-2011, 06:51 PM
Robert Quinn, possibly the best player of the draft (at least I see it that way)

MikeTheDudeV2
03-03-2011, 06:55 PM
I believe if the poll was given after Combine, Dareus and Fairley's numbers would be flipped.

Thread Killer
03-03-2011, 07:28 PM
#1 overall pick will be Blaine Gabbert.

Halsey
03-03-2011, 07:36 PM
#1 overall pick will be Blaine Gabbert.

Dude, you just totally killed this thread...

I'd just like to add that it's not the end of the world if the Panthers draft Gabbert and Clausen actually develops into a quality QB. It's not like QBs can't be traded. There's worse problems than having 2 talented QBs.

Roddoliver
03-03-2011, 07:36 PM
Cam Newton to Carolina, Marcell Dareus to Denver

Timbathia
03-03-2011, 07:48 PM
Dude, you just totally killed this thread...

I'd just like to add that it's not the end of the world if the Panthers draft Gabbert and Clausen actually develops into a quality QB. It's not like QBs can't be traded. There's worse problems than having 2 talented QBs.

Yes - having two mediocre QBs named Clausen and Gabbert.

Halsey
03-03-2011, 08:07 PM
Yes - having two mediocre QBs named Clausen and Gabbert.

You didn't think Bradford was worth the #1 pick last year and you don't know how good Gabbert will be in the NFL.

Timbathia
03-03-2011, 08:18 PM
You didn't think Bradford was worth the #1 pick last year and you don't know how good Gabbert will be in the NFL.

You are right.

I would still take Suh over Bradford, even with hindsight.

Bradford is better than Gabbert.

I have no idea how good Gabbert will be, and sure as **** wouldnt want to spend a #1 pick finding out.

RealityCheck
03-03-2011, 09:01 PM
Robert Quinn, possibly the best player of the draft (at least I see it that way)
I second that.

gpngc
03-03-2011, 09:20 PM
I'm starting to think Bowers.

If they don't re-sign Charles Johnson I'd bet money on Bowers. It's just... Brown and Hardy... how... ugh. You can never have too many pass rushers?

IDK - DT is their greatest need easily. Dareus?

This is too difficult.

nepg
03-03-2011, 09:35 PM
Depends on what they want between Dareus and Fairley. I wouldn't hate starting Hardy and Brown. Obviously you want more depth than that, but this is a deep DE class. A DT like Dareus or Fairley could completely change that defensive front 4 into a strength.

the natural
03-03-2011, 10:27 PM
Really?

Elway, 47.5% 151ypg, 7-14 Td-Int (1-2 ratio) Broncos 9-7

Clausen, 52.5% 119ypg 3-9 Td-int (1-3 ratio) Panthers 2-14

Elway was the most hyped college QB of all time when he came out, I think. Good thing he didn't get judged on his rookie season.

I think the Panthers want to trade their pick. With so many teams in the 3-10 range on the draft board looking at QBs, I think a deal will work out. If the two QBs end up going 1-2, anyone else in the top 10 has their pick of defensive players. There doesn't seem to be clear cut deliniation between half a dozen of them, at least.

SimonRath
03-03-2011, 10:36 PM
Elway was the most hyped college QB of all time when he came out, I think. Good thing he didn't get judged on his rookie season.

I think the Panthers want to trade their pick. With so many teams in the 3-10 range on the draft board looking at QBs, I think a deal will work out. If the two QBs end up going 1-2, anyone else in the top 10 has their pick of defensive players. There doesn't seem to be clear cut deliniation between half a dozen of them, at least.

A. duh the Panthers wanna trade this pick.
B. Im pretty sure Peyton Manning threw like 28 ints his rookie season..

the natural
03-03-2011, 11:36 PM
A. duh the Panthers wanna trade this pick.
B. Im pretty sure Peyton Manning threw like 28 ints his rookie season...

Stick your head up your porn uploads maggot.

grignotte
03-04-2011, 09:02 AM
Since Gabbert is not on your list I went with Dareus.

It's funny because last year Suh was by far the best player of the Draft (the only one truly worthy of the #1 pick) and yet was picked after Bradford, who had serious question marks.

And now we face a Draft with no clear cut player worthy of the #1 pick; and again a QB-needy team is picking first. Okay, the Panthers wanted Andrew Luck badly and he decided to stay in school, but Luck or not they still have not shown any faith in Clausen. So why not look for another potential franchise QB ?

Gabbert has question marks, just like every other QB prospect this year. He is not the physical freak that Newton is but he is smart with sneaky athleticism and a good arm. He played in a spread offense, but just like Bradford last year I don't see any reason why he would not be able to learn and succeed in a pro-style offense, because he has the tools, physically and mentally. That's why I think he should be the pick in April.

Newton is more of a project in my opinion, and as a GM you have to be worried about this Icon thing.

Fairley is a beast but also has only one year of production and questions regarding his character. He is not Suh. He would fill a need though.

For Quinn, I wonder if anybody wants to invest so much money in a guy who hasn't played all year.

Dareus and Bowers are the safe picks, and they would fill a need, even though Bowers also has questions about his only season of productivity.

Green and PP might be the BPA's of the Draft, filling needs too. The only knock on them is that they play undervalued positions.

Then you have to take into account that the Panthers already have some nice pieces on their team and key players who were injured last year. I think we will all agree to say they are in a better state than the Rams were last year. If they feel Clausen is not their quarterback of the future (and they have given no indication they believe he is) then they have to pull the trigger on a QB now, because they might not be in position next year to pick Luck and in any case they simply can't adopt this reasoning.

On a side note, I know the Panthers will keep their 4-3 defense, but don't you think this is just temporary until the team gets more personnel suited for the 3-4 ?

SimonRath
03-04-2011, 09:14 AM
.

Stick your head up your porn uploads maggot.

are you like 15 years old?

Iamcanadian
03-04-2011, 10:30 AM
Right now they are leaning toward Gabbert but it could change after he works out.

Iamcanadian
03-04-2011, 10:34 AM
Similar situation Miami was in a few years ago. No clear cut #1 player, so they went with Jake Long, not the flashiest pick but a relatively safe one that would be a stalwart for a long time. Some people say they should have picked Ryan instead, but Miami's been a pretty good team without Ryan. The closest thing to that type of a pick this year is Dareus, again not a flashy pick, but a guy you can feel reasonably confident in to help your team immediately.

It was a disaster for Miami when they passed on Ryan. Atlanta will be a serious contender to win the Super Bowl for years while Miami with their All-Pro LT will continue to struggle to make the playoffs.
Miami broke the golden rule, 'always take a possible franchise QB when you need one and are given the opportunity to draft one,' and it could be a decade before they recover for passing on Ryan.
Ditto for this year's draft, the QB's are going a lot higher than people think, ask the 10 teams that passed on Roethlisberger or the 20 teams that passed on Rodgers.

SenorGato
03-04-2011, 11:07 AM
Cam Newton to Carolina, Marcell Dareus to Denver

I'm going with this. Freak QB who isn't fat? Newton's not the perfect QB prospect but he's easily the most athletic one since Vick and the upside is absolutely ridiculous...I think the Panthers bite.

Roddoliver
03-04-2011, 11:40 AM
PANTHERS BEAT WRITER: GABBERT NOT IN PLAY

The Charlotte Observer's Darin Gantt does not believe Missouri QB Blaine Gabbert is in play for the No. 1 overall pick.

NFL Network reporters and analysts have pushed Gabbert as Panthers' potential top pick, but the team's top beat writer doesn't think he's in the mix. Gantt believes it will come down to Auburn QB Cam Newton or a defensive player.

Babylon
03-04-2011, 11:50 AM
PANTHERS BEAT WRITER: GABBERT NOT IN PLAY

The Charlotte Observer's Darin Gantt does not believe Missouri QB Blaine Gabbert is in play for the No. 1 overall pick.

NFL Network reporters and analysts have pushed Gabbert as Panthers' potential top pick, but the team's top beat writer doesn't think he's in the mix. Gantt believes it will come down to Auburn QB Cam Newton or a defensive player.

So they could take the 3rd best QB on Mayock and McShay's board, good strategy.

nepg
03-04-2011, 11:59 AM
I don't get why media outlets keep putting Gabbert up there like that.

He's an inferior prospect in every way in comparison to Newton and Locker, and he's been outperformed by both by a wide margin in the pre-draft process.

No scouts or GMs have Gabbert over those two... I think the various outlets are just trying to look smart by putting a guy that common people don't know about at the top of their rankings.

Halsey
03-04-2011, 12:06 PM
Yeah, it's a conspiracy because the media loves Gabbert. His blond locks really do it for them and he's a fine representative of the Aryan people.

Roddoliver
03-04-2011, 12:07 PM
So they could take the 3rd best QB on Mayock and McShay's board, good strategy.

In 2009, my beloved Broncos took the 3rd and 4th best prospects overall from Mayock's board. Ayers and Moreno. The result: disaster.

Babylon
03-04-2011, 01:32 PM
I don't get why media outlets keep putting Gabbert up there like that.

He's an inferior prospect in every way in comparison to Newton and Locker, and he's been outperformed by both by a wide margin in the pre-draft process.

No scouts or GMs have Gabbert over those two... I think the various outlets are just trying to look smart by putting a guy that common people don't know about at the top of their rankings.

Gabbert i think benefits from the tremendous amount of press that Newton, Locker and Mallett have gotten this year (not all good). He comes out of nowhere, delcares for the draft and then his people do a smart thing and hold him out of the combine, implying that he's the top guy and he doesnt need to risk his lofty status. Funny thing is the lemmings get in line and follow this logic off the side of the cliff. Personally i think he can be a good QB but would argue it isnt a given he will be the best of this class or that he should go first.

SchizophrenicBatman
03-04-2011, 04:49 PM
Serious question - who is the last blonde QB prospect that actually panned out?

Bad tidings for the future of Matt Barkley, my friends

RaiderNation
03-04-2011, 04:54 PM
What has Gabbert done to get this #1 pick hype? His play on the field isnt showing me it, he didnt really wow anybody at the combine as a franchise type guy(didnt even throw). I think this is just some beatwrites trying to gain attention saying things like this. It's going to come down to Bowers, Dareus or Newton.

thenewfeature06
03-04-2011, 04:56 PM
What has Gabbert done to get this #1 pick hype? His play on the field isnt showing me it, he didnt really wow anybody at the combine as a franchise type guy(didnt even throw). I think this is just some beatwrites trying to gain attention saying things like this. It's going to come down to Bowers, Dareus or Newton.

Haha agreed he hasn't done anything at all to be #1.. I think because the draft is weak in a sense, and Carolina could go a # of different ways.

PossumBoy9
03-05-2011, 04:56 PM
hop off Gabberts d!cK! being a 5star recruit instead of a 4 star doesn't mean ****.

Yeah....and he was never ahead of Luck during this season, or any time that I can remember.

jnew76
03-05-2011, 06:39 PM
I cannot remember a recent draft when the #1 pick had this many legitimate possibilities to be drafted.

Neither Newton or Gabbert are #1 pick material in my mind at this point... However, we do have both their pro-days coming up and it will be good to finally see Gabbert in action throwing the ball.

Honestly, I am not a fan of any underclassmen QB's... History is not on their side in the NFL. Almost every elite NFL QB spent 4 years in a college program. Manning, Brady, Brees, Rivers were all seniors... Sanchez and Freeman have seen some success recently, so the trend might be changing, but I am still cautious.

I do not understand all the Gabbert hate on this board... Nor so I understand the super love affair with Gabbert in the media. I am somewhere in the middle.

I believe that if Gabbert has an incredible pro-day, he will be the #1 pick. Otherwise I think it is Dareus. I expect the Carolina to say they like Newton because they believe that Buffalo likes him, but I think the character concerns and questions are just too much of a risk for Carolina.

nepg
03-05-2011, 10:16 PM
I have him as the 4th-best QB in the draft and was shocked when he was put anywhere higher than the 20's in initial post-underclassmen deadline mocks. Sure, he can become a good QB, but he's shown nothing that puts him over Newton, Locker, or Mallett.

ThePudge
03-06-2011, 03:23 AM
I think it's pretty clear that in early March, Cam Newton is the favorite to go #1. Injury concerns could scare Top 5 teams from considering Da'Quan Bowers, attitude concerns will prevent Nick Fairley from going 1st Overall, and Marcell Dareus may not have been consistently dominant enough this past season to prevent Carolina from going with their top QB. I don't think Gabbert is in play with the 1st Overall pick either. I still find it incredible that most media outlets rate him as their top QB almost by default.

ThePudge
03-06-2011, 03:33 AM
I do not understand all the Gabbert hate on this board... Nor so I understand the super love affair with Gabbert in the media. I am somewhere in the middle.

It mostly stems from the fact (or personal opinion) that Blaine Gabbert has never actually looked like a Top 15 pick on film. He has the physical tools everyone looks for along with great throwing mechanics; however, he is not very accurate and his pocket presence is poor. If he seems to be playing scared against a three or four man rush now then how will he handle pressure at the next level? I don't see the moxie or competitiveness to win over a locker-room and eventually will his team to victory.

Simply put, I just haven't been impressed. For a guy that is getting hype as a Top 5-10 pick, I'm pretty amazed. Gabbert is my 4th ranked QB and I grade him a second rounder. Never before has a QB gone Top 5 with equal, less, or even close to Blaine's college production. He wasn't a special college football player, so why should anybody believe he'll be a star in the league? He has a lot of tools, but something is missing on the field as of now.

Iamcanadian
03-06-2011, 10:23 AM
It mostly stems from the fact (or personal opinion) that Blaine Gabbert has never actually looked like a Top 15 pick on film. He has the physical tools everyone looks for along with great throwing mechanics; however, he is not very accurate and his pocket presence is poor. If he seems to be playing scared against a three or four man rush now then how will he handle pressure at the next level? I don't see the moxie or competitiveness to win over a locker-room and eventually will his team to victory.

Simply put, I just haven't been impressed. For a guy that is getting hype as a Top 5-10 pick, I'm pretty amazed. Gabbert is my 4th ranked QB and I grade him a second rounder. Never before has a QB gone Top 5 with equal, less, or even close to Blaine's college production. He wasn't a special college football player, so why should anybody believe he'll be a star in the league? He has a lot of tools, but something is missing on the field as of now.

He's a junior and junior QB's are very raw especially when they aren't red-shirted a year. They usually blossom in their senior seasons. Teams are more and more going to have to gamble on potential at the QB position if they want any chance to get a true franchise QB.
We still have to wait and see how Gabbert does at his pro day and yes, he will have to be really impressive in the interview process to remain a top 5 prospect. What college production did Sanchez have? Sanchez got drafted early based on his strong arm, other athletic potential/intangibles and how well he came across in the interview process.
Right now, Gabbert's ceiling is off the charts and that is why, in a particularly strong draft, he is getting serious consideration to go #1 overall.

nepg
03-06-2011, 10:29 AM
Yeah, but Locker, Mallett, and Newton all have higher potential than Gabbert... That's what makes the Gabbert love so odd. He wasn't the best and he doesn't have the highest ceiling. He has major mental flaws...it's just an odd thing to see a prospect get so much love simply because people don't know who he is.

hockey619
03-06-2011, 10:41 AM
He's a junior and junior QB's are very raw especially when they aren't red-shirted a year. They usually blossom in their senior seasons. Teams are more and more going to have to gamble on potential at the QB position if they want any chance to get a true franchise QB.
We still have to wait and see how Gabbert does at his pro day and yes, he will have to be really impressive in the interview process to remain a top 5 prospect. What college production did Sanchez have? Sanchez got drafted early based on his strong arm, other athletic potential/intangibles and how well he came across in the interview process.
Right now, Gabbert's ceiling is off the charts and that is why, in a particularly strong draft, he is getting serious consideration to go #1 overall.

The one year Sanchez played he played very well. The same cannot be said for Gabbert, who was mediocre at best all year. Sanchez showed good ball placement and command of the offense he was in. Gabbert looks very average.


Pudge:
you grade him as a second rounder? Honestly, I'll give him 3-5 round grade right now because he supposedly did well in interviews (something im not privy to). Hes got a solid arm, can extend plays, and size...and thats it. Thats all. His footwork is eh, his accuracy is inconsistent, idk i really dont see it with him.

You said his pocket prescense was poor? Lets not sugar coat it, its freaking atrocious. If his first read isnt open (and he doesnt just force the throw anyway), he runs from the pocket, whether his pocket was perfect or not. if he stayed in school i think he wouldve had a snead like free fall. He looks scared to me, not something you want in a guy trying to lead men.

Babylon
03-06-2011, 10:55 AM
The one year Sanchez played he played very well. The same cannot be said for Gabbert, who was mediocre at best all year. Sanchez showed good ball placement and command of the offense he was in. Gabbert looks very average.


Pudge:
you grade him as a second rounder? Honestly, I'll give him 3-5 round grade right now because he supposedly did well in interviews (something im not privy to). Hes got a solid arm, can extend plays, and size...and thats it. Thats all. His footwork is eh, his accuracy is inconsistent, idk i really dont see it with him.

You said his pocket prescense was poor? Lets not sugar coat it, its freaking atrocious. If his first read isnt open (and he doesnt just force the throw anyway), he runs from the pocket, whether his pocket was perfect or not. if he stayed in school i think he wouldve had a snead like free fall. He looks scared to me, not something you want in a guy trying to lead men.

Not sure that you're insinuating that Gabbert only played one year because he's played two full and a cameo appearance or two in his freshman season.

I dont disagree with some of the things said about Gabbert in here but how is he any more of a risk than Cam Newton, who has only played one year and looks like he needs to improve his accuracy, an issue that probably keeps Jake Locker out of this discussion. To say nothing of the circus that seems to surround Newton.

To say that there is a clear cut #1 QB isnt happening this year, dont be shocked at what comes off the board and in what order.

RealityCheck
03-06-2011, 10:59 AM
For heaven's sake, stop licking Newton's balls for a second and realize that he's not going to be picked #1 overall with that character and that atrocious accuracy.

Same goes with Gabbert. No QB in this class is worth of a first round pick, let alone #1 overall.

hockey619
03-06-2011, 11:30 AM
Not sure that you're insinuating that Gabbert only played one year because he's played two full and a cameo appearance or two in his freshman season.

I dont disagree with some of the things said about Gabbert in here but how is he any more of a risk than Cam Newton, who has only played one year and looks like he needs to improve his accuracy, an issue that probably keeps Jake Locker out of this discussion. To say nothing of the circus that seems to surround Newton.

To say that there is a clear cut #1 QB isnt happening this year, dont be shocked at what comes off the board and in what order.

No insinuation at all, the above poster had said something about Sanchez not performing which wasnt true. he did perform very well, just not for very long. Gabbert didnt perform much at all, and maintained this mediocrity for quite a while.

your other points ill discuss below with RC.

For heaven's sake, stop licking Newton's balls for a second and realize that he's not going to be picked #1 overall with that character and that atrocious accuracy.

Same goes with Gabbert. No QB in this class is worth of a first round pick, let alone #1 overall.

I agree, this QB class is unimpressive. I dont think Newton is number one overall worthy. I do think this class has potential but no one really stands out a ton. My rankings...

1) Mallett - Late first rounder. Too many character concerns that i cant answer so that kinda hard. but he's the best passer in this class and it really aint too close, pocket prescense and accuracy arent always great but overall it got a lot better this year. Only question is character, something i dont have straight facts on, and makes some questionable decisions at times. Could be Derek Anderson, could be a better drew bledsoe and do pretty well.

2) Stanzi - Second round. second best passer to me in this class, makes some eh decisions at times and the rush will bother him at times, but he throws down the field well, shows good mechanics and ball placement, and throws a nice fade. arm is solid, accuracy is pretty good but gets spotty under pressure. Only thing i saw that i really didnt like was he really stares down his recievers.

3) Locker - Second to third round. Him and newton are actually pretty similar. Big arm, bad feet leading to shakey accuracy on the short timing throws. Locker appears to have the work ethic and personality of a good QB, but it doesnt seem to come natural to him which is why hes not a solid second round pick.

4) Newton - Third or later. Bad feet leading to shakey accuracy. Questionable guy who early on will rub guys the wrong way until they get to know him, question being how long will that take and will he still be around? Ive said before: i could see him having a career path similar to vick. some success early but not putting in the work on the details (footwork, leading to accuracy issues) and being a runner not a passer. I think he could be a player, but his risk of really flaming out in spectacular fashion is pretty high. His dad's involvement scares me a bit too, too many questions with him and too many places where it could go wrong to have him higher than this imo.

5) Gabbert - third to fifth. he scared in the pocket. awful pocket presence (i still have no idea how to spell that) inconsistent accuracy on all levels. Panics in the pocket and throws it into coverage. Solid arm and can extend plays. I dont see the high pick everyone is touting.


I NEVER WATCHED PONDER, ENDERLE, AND KAEPERNICK PLAY SO I DONT KNOW IF THEYD FIT IN THEIR SOMEWHERE FOR THAT REASON.

Dalton and McElroy: thought both were awful to eh as jrs, looked solid but unspectacular as seniors. Prefer McElroy a little more at this point, might become a decent to solid starter as his upside, gotta see some more of him before I really know though, profiles as more of a backup though.

I really wanna see more but ive been so busy, might have some time next week. This is how i see it as of now.

ThePudge
03-06-2011, 01:02 PM
For heaven's sake, stop licking Newton's balls for a second and realize that he's not going to be picked #1 overall with that character and that atrocious accuracy.

Same goes with Gabbert. No QB in this class is worth of a first round pick, let alone #1 overall.

There has been NFL personnel that had a closer look in interviews and said Newton checked out perfectly in interviews. While I don't think he has close to pristine character, one team will fall in love and he's still a cinch Top 5 pick with Carolina, Buffalo, Cincinnati, and Arizona all in the market for a franchise QB. Of all people, you can't put your personal evaluation to the side and see it how NFL teams will? Has your draft record been that accurate in the past? How would you rate your grasp on predicting the NFL Draft?

Like it or not, some people need to take their head out of their ass and realize that as many as 6 Quarterbacks could be off the board by the end of the Second Round. QBs will go higher than scouts and "experts" have them on their boards due to immense demand. It looks likely that two QBs will come off the board in the first 12 picks and it looks like those two will be Newton and Blaine Gabbert. Let me clarify, I don't think Gabbert is a Top 30 player in this draft... but I'm also not too full of my opinion to assume that teams will be able to land him in the Late 1st-Early 2nd where I think he deserves to go.

So all of you that think no QB warrants a Top 20 selection, learn how to remove personal opinions when actually talking about projections for draft day. There is a ton of insider info out there that helps illustrate where teams expect players to come off the board. I'm a fan of using those available resources instead of assuming NFL teams will draft based on my personal board.

Babylon
03-06-2011, 01:23 PM
There has been NFL personnel that had a closer look in interviews and said Newton checked out perfectly in interviews. While I don't think he has close to pristine character, one team will fall in love and he's still a cinch Top 5 pick with Carolina, Buffalo, Cincinnati, and Arizona all in the market for a franchise QB. Of all people, you can't put your personal evaluation to the side and see it how NFL teams will? Has your draft record been that accurate in the past? How would you rate your grasp on predicting the NFL Draft?

Like it or not, some people need to take their head out of their ass and realize that as many as 6 Quarterbacks could be off the board by the end of the Second Round. QBs will go higher than scouts and "experts" have them on their boards due to immense demand. It looks likely that two QBs will come off the board in the first 12 picks and it looks like those two will be Newton and Blaine Gabbert. Let me clarify, I don't think Gabbert is a Top 30 player in this draft... but I'm also not too full of my opinion to assume that teams will be able to land him in the Late 1st-Early 2nd where I think he deserves to go.

So all of you that think no QB warrants a Top 20 selection, learn how to remove personal opinions when actually talking about projections for draft day. There is a ton of insider info out there that helps illustrate where teams expect players to come off the board. I'm a fan of using those available resources instead of assuming NFL teams will draft based on my personal board.

I wouldnt say cinch. What i'm seeing is no QBs takent till the 7th pick at the earliest. I'm not a huge Newton fan but someone could fall in love with him although i'm not exactly sure what they would be falling in love with. You could make the same argument for Locker and Gabbert to be a cinch for the top 5 and who knows they all might be by draft day.

ThePudge
03-06-2011, 02:00 PM
I wouldnt say cinch. What i'm seeing is no QBs takent till the 7th pick at the earliest. I'm not a huge Newton fan but someone could fall in love with him although i'm not exactly sure what they would be falling in love with. You could make the same argument for Locker and Gabbert to be a cinch for the top 5 and who knows they all might be by draft day.

I don't mean to seem like I'm attacking you personally, but there's no way the top 6 picks are all defenders and receivers. I have Newton 7th on my board, behind players that will receive a whole lot of consideration in the Top 6. Still, from what I've gathered from NFL personnel and insiders, it appears that there is 0 chance that there will not be two QBs taken in the Top 12 and at least one in the Top 5.

With Newton and Gabbert, teams aren't going to be drooling about where they are now, but rather where they could be with some time and coaching. Each could be groomed to be solid starting Quarterbacks or more. Now, Gabbert is further ahead mechanically, that much is evident; however, Newton has that "it" factor and routinely took over games in college with both his legs and his arm. Footwork can be easily re-worked in the NFL and Cam doesn't seem to fear the three or four man rush quite like Gabbert does. He has accuracy issues now, largely due to his throwing mechanics. Still, if a team thinks they can coach Newton up to his potential, then he's worth a Top 3 pick easily. His upside as a potential franchise QB supersedes any other player in this draft.

Basically, I'm with whoever says there is no slam-dunk, Top 5 value at the Quarterback position. However, I think Newton can't get past the Bengals at #4 if he gets past the Panthers & Bills in the first place. I don't say this with any bias... I'm not an Auburn fan. I call it like I see it. I don't want him on my Cincinnati Bengals, because he'll need a strong organization to keep him in line and maximize his potential. I think it IS a given that two QBs will go among the Top 15 picks and I still believe either Mallett or Locker could sneak into the 1st.

I'll highlight this point on its own; Quarterback demand is higher than ever. Now we have some young players that haven't worked out... see San Francisco (Alex Smith), Miami (Chad Henne), Arizona (Matt Leinart), Tennessee (Vince Young), Carolina (Jimmy Clausen.) Others have to replace veterans... see Minnesota (Brett Favre), Cincinnati (Carson Palmer), Washington (Donovan McNabb), Seattle (Matt Hasselbeck.) Then you have the teams that need to upgrade the position or add a young franchise QB prospect if they expect to be very competitive in the future ... see Jacksonville (David Garrard), Buffalo (Ryan Fitzpatrick), Oakland (Jason Campbell.)

That's 13 teams that could target a QB in the first two rounds if they want a legitimate shot at the playoffs in the future. Two will go Top 15, three will go first round, and at least seven will come off the board in the draft's first two days.

Babylon
03-06-2011, 02:06 PM
^
Not taking anything personal, it's called a discussion. You are probably right in that teams will value some of these guys higher based on need. I'm just not ready to say it will be one over the others because they all bring differant things to the table.

slats7
03-06-2011, 02:16 PM
Can we assume that no team will be interested in trading up to the #1 slot?

katnip
03-06-2011, 02:21 PM
Voted for Peterson, because its a deep DL class is all I heard on NFL network. I would have voted for Gabbert though if he was a choice.

LonghornsLegend
03-06-2011, 02:24 PM
Can we assume that no team will be interested in trading up to the #1 slot?

Were just not gonna see that unless there is a perceived slam dunk talent at #1, and even when that happens the team who is trading out of that spot is gonna need to have a nice consolation prize to fall back to. Nobody is even thinking about it when there isn't even a legit pick for #1 overall.


Had Suh came out this season maybe someone would consider it, he'd be head and shoulders above who is available this year.

ThePudge
03-06-2011, 02:26 PM
Can we assume that no team will be interested in trading up to the #1 slot?

I'd say that's a very fair assumption.

thegreatone
03-06-2011, 02:48 PM
Patrick Peterson is easily the bpa, so I would pick him.

dannyz
03-06-2011, 02:50 PM
I remember when Andrew Luck had not taken himself out of the Draft yet and people were like what about Clausen? Jimmy should get another shot. Now everyone is like Gabbert or Newton and no body cares about Clausen. Newton and Gabbert over Luck? Not in a million years.

brat316
03-06-2011, 03:02 PM
Nah, Green or DT.

jnew76
03-06-2011, 03:20 PM
Can we assume that no team will be interested in trading up to the #1 slot?

If there is a rookie wage scale in place by the draft I think it makes trading for the pick a little more attractive... However, I still doubt that a team is willing to pay the premium price in picks that it usually takes.

slats7
03-06-2011, 03:33 PM
Were just not gonna see that unless there is a perceived slam dunk talent at #1, and even when that happens the team who is trading out of that spot is gonna need to have a nice consolation prize to fall back to. Nobody is even thinking about it when there isn't even a legit pick for #1 overall.


Had Suh came out this season maybe someone would consider it, he'd be head and shoulders above who is available this year.

I'd say that's a very fair assumption.

If there is a rookie wage scale in place by the draft I think it makes trading for the pick a little more attractive... However, I still doubt that a team is willing to pay the premium price in picks that it usually takes.

So whose phones should be ringing off the hook on draft day? Arizona and Cleveland?

nepg
03-06-2011, 03:59 PM
There has been NFL personnel that had a closer look in interviews and said Newton checked out perfectly in interviews. While I don't think he has close to pristine character, one team will fall in love and he's still a cinch Top 5 pick with Carolina, Buffalo, Cincinnati, and Arizona all in the market for a franchise QB. Of all people, you can't put your personal evaluation to the side and see it how NFL teams will? Has your draft record been that accurate in the past? How would you rate your grasp on predicting the NFL Draft?

Like it or not, some people need to take their head out of their ass and realize that as many as 6 Quarterbacks could be off the board by the end of the Second Round. QBs will go higher than scouts and "experts" have them on their boards due to immense demand. It looks likely that two QBs will come off the board in the first 12 picks and it looks like those two will be Newton and Blaine Gabbert. Let me clarify, I don't think Gabbert is a Top 30 player in this draft... but I'm also not too full of my opinion to assume that teams will be able to land him in the Late 1st-Early 2nd where I think he deserves to go.

So all of you that think no QB warrants a Top 20 selection, learn how to remove personal opinions when actually talking about projections for draft day. There is a ton of insider info out there that helps illustrate where teams expect players to come off the board. I'm a fan of using those available resources instead of assuming NFL teams will draft based on my personal board.

I've consistently mocked all 4 QBs in the Top 15, and I think that's where they should go. There are tons of teams that are in high demand for franchise QBs, and while I'm not high on Gabbert, it's more that I think he has the least to offer out of the 4...he still have franchise QB qualities as well...

This is a damn good QB class, and it's funny to watch it get panned so harshly.

I don't grade QBs with a round. A QB is either a franchise-quality guy who you'd take anyway you can get him (Locker, Newton, Mallett, Gabbert), a developmental player who you weigh your team's situation with (Tebow, Kaepernick?), or a backup QB who you take after the 4th or 5th round.

wonderbredd24
03-06-2011, 04:25 PM
I just hope the Panthers are stupid enough to take Newton #1 so the Browns have a chance to get Dareus/Fairley.

I am curious if a quarterback has ever gone #1 with more red flags than Cameron Newton has. Lack of starting experience (14 career starts), a system where maybe 1 in 10 throws was anything close to what he'd see in the NFL, horrendous footwork, character questions, etc etc etc... but hey, he's really, really big and he's got a huge arm.

If I was running the Panthers, I would take whomever I thought was better between Fairley and Dareus depending on system fit and that is unfortunately the direction I think they will go... maybe they will take pity on my franchise and take Bowers

RealityCheck
03-06-2011, 04:44 PM
I am curious if a quarterback has ever gone #1 with more red flags than Cameron Newton has. Lack of starting experience (14 career starts), a system where maybe 1 in 10 throws was anything close to what he'd see in the NFL, horrendous footwork, character questions, etc etc etc... but hey, he's really, really big and he's got a huge arm.
Those are the reasons why I'm seriously thinking about giving Newton a UDFA grade. Yes, UDFA. That's how ugly his situation is for me.

wonderbredd24
03-06-2011, 05:06 PM
Those are the reasons why I'm seriously thinking about giving Newton a UDFA grade. Yes, UDFA. That's how ugly his situation is for me.
I wouldn't go that far, but it is why I wouldn't take him until the second round of the draft.

It just boggles my mind that a prospect with such a wide range of opinions could possibly go #1 in the entire draft. I just don't buy it.

ChiFan24
03-06-2011, 05:20 PM
Those are the reasons why I'm seriously thinking about giving Newton a UDFA grade. Yes, UDFA. That's how ugly his situation is for me.

For ****'s sake, stop posting. In a realistic worst case scenario, he's a Vince Young type, which isn't even remotely a UDFA grade, it's a second or third round grade.

But go ahead, give him the UDFA grade. I'm sure your rankings will turn the NFL draft world upside down. You know, with all the people that will be reading them.

ChiFan24
03-06-2011, 05:21 PM
I remember when Andrew Luck had not taken himself out of the Draft yet and people were like what about Clausen? Jimmy should get another shot. Now everyone is like Gabbert or Newton and no body cares about Clausen. Newton and Gabbert over Luck? Not in a million years.

Pretty sure you're thinking of two different groups of people.

nepg
03-06-2011, 05:33 PM
I just hope the Panthers are stupid enough to take Newton #1 so the Browns have a chance to get Dareus/Fairley.

I am curious if a quarterback has ever gone #1 with more red flags than Cameron Newton has. Lack of starting experience (14 career starts), a system where maybe 1 in 10 throws was anything close to what he'd see in the NFL, horrendous footwork, character questions, etc etc etc... but hey, he's really, really big and he's got a huge arm.

If I was running the Panthers, I would take whomever I thought was better between Fairley and Dareus depending on system fit and that is unfortunately the direction I think they will go... maybe they will take pity on my franchise and take Bowers

JaMarcus Russell... Jeff George...

wonderbredd24
03-06-2011, 05:38 PM
JaMarcus Russell... Jeff George...
Russell is debatable. Most would argue that he only had one red flag... work ethic. That is what killed him.

Jeff George could still be on an NFL roster right now if he wasn't a total space cadet. He's that talented.

nepg
03-06-2011, 05:40 PM
Jeff George could still be on an NFL roster right now if he wasn't a total space cadet. He's that talented.

Cam Newton's more talented than Jeff George and has lesser character issues going into the draft.

wonderbredd24
03-06-2011, 05:53 PM
Cam Newton's more talented than Jeff George and has lesser character issues going into the draft.
No he isn't. Jeff George's ability to throw the football is the stuff of legends.

It's like Michael Vick and Sean Taylor were combined into one prospect on this board.

People would watch the guy work out and fall in love with his arm over and over again in spite of everything... he was still getting a shot in the league until 2006.

If you were going to build a quarterback, you would put Jeff George's arm on them. You're not taking squat from Cam Newton.

ThePudge
03-06-2011, 06:00 PM
I wouldn't go that far, but it is why I wouldn't take him until the second round of the draft.

It just boggles my mind that a prospect with such a wide range of opinions could possibly go #1 in the entire draft. I just don't buy it.

According to Rob Rang's recent talk with 7 NFL scouts, 4 teams graded Newton their top Quarterback, 3 teams Gabbert. Each team had Newton graded as their #2 QB if not #1. The top Quarterback will go very high on draft day with up to 13 teams targeting the position in the first three rounds or so. I believe, at this point, that both Newton and Gabbert will go Top 10. A lot is riding on their respective Pro Days though, so we'll see what happens.

wonderbredd24
03-06-2011, 06:02 PM
According to Rob Rang's recent talk with 7 NFL scouts, 4 teams graded Newton their top Quarterback, 3 Teams Gabbert. Each team had Newton graded as their #2 QB if not #1. The top Quarterback will go very high on draft day with up to 13 teams targeting the position in the first three rounds or so. I believe, at this point, that both Newton and Gabbert will go Top 10. A lot is riding on their respective Pro Days though, so we'll see what happens.
I never know how much stock to put into these insert person talking to anonymous scouts. It stinks of teams trying to put false information out there.

Pro Days for quarterbacks are worthless. The next quarterback who has a bad pro day will be the first. They are so incredibly scripted, practiced, and everything else that nothing worthwhile is gained from it, unless putting on a clinic against air impresses you.

ThePudge
03-06-2011, 06:14 PM
I never know how much stock to put into these insert person talking to anonymous scouts. It stinks of teams trying to put false information out there.

Pro Days for quarterbacks are worthless. The next quarterback who has a bad pro day will be the first. They are so incredibly scripted, practiced, and everything else that nothing worthwhile is gained from it, unless putting on a clinic against air impresses you.

So you don't think Cam Newton is the top Quarterback on any boards? With up to 9 teams in the Top 15 looking QB with their pick, wouldn't you agree that he is pretty much a complete lock to go in that range, if not Top 5? I'm fine with opinions being mixed on him in the draftnik community. There are serious concerns with Newton, so his NFL career could potentially go a number of ways. Still, a team very high in the upcoming draft will fall in love with his potential. I don't see him getting past #4 to the Bengals, and I don't know that it'd be a good spot for him if he did land there. I would say he's the favorite for the First Overall Pick over any defensive player in this class.

wonderbredd24
03-06-2011, 06:22 PM
So you don't think Cam Newton is the top Quarterback on any boards? With up to 9 teams in the Top 15 looking QB with their pick, wouldn't you agree that he is pretty much a complete lock to go in that range, if not Top 5? I'm fine with opinions being mixed on him in the draftnik community. There are serious concerns with Newton, so his NFL career could potentially go a number of ways. Still, a team very high in the upcoming draft will fall in love with his potential. I don't see him getting past #4 to the Bengals, and I don't know that it'd be a good spot for him if he did land there. I would say he's the favorite for the First Overall Pick over any defensive player in this class.
I have no idea if he is the top quarterback on any boards, let alone 9? Do I think there are coaches with the mindset that they can be the one who helps him realize his potential? Absolutely... probably more than a few. Do I think he's a lock to go in the Top 15? No, but if I had to bet on it, I would. I don't think he will make it past 12th pick and that is still where I have him going. And if he goes 12th, it would be easy for me to believe he was the 3rd QB taken behind Gabbert and Locker. 3rd feels about right... but I still wouldn't take him in the 1st round. The nature of the position suggests some team out there will.

As for the favorite to be the 1st overall pick? Unless I'm missing something, the GM who picked Clausen is still there. I have a hard time believing he's going to go out of his way to make himself look like a moron for having Matt Moore and Jimmy Clausen and having taken Clausen in the 2nd round just one year ago. I would also have an easier time believing Newton was in the conversation for the #1 overall pick if the Panthers had a second round pick. The fact that they don't means they would be unlikely to get an immediate starter out of this draft... again, which is why they are a horrible team. It is just not a good way to work the draft and the Panthers are not a big time player in free agency, so they would basically be going with the same team that was horrible last year + a quarterback who can't start right away.

ThePudge
03-06-2011, 06:33 PM
I have no idea if he is the top quarterback on any boards, let alone 9? Do I think there are coaches with the mindset that they can be the one who helps him realize his potential? Absolutely... probably more than a few. Do I think he's a lock to go in the Top 15? No, but if I had to bet on it, I would. I don't think he will make it past 12th pick and that is still where I have him going. And if he goes 12th, it would be easy for me to believe he was the 3rd QB taken behind Gabbert and Locker. 3rd feels about right... but I still wouldn't take him in the 1st round. The nature of the position suggests some team out there will.

As for the favorite to be the 1st overall pick? Unless I'm missing something, the GM who picked Clausen is still there. I have a hard time believing he's going to go out of his way to make himself look like a moron for having Matt Moore and Jimmy Clausen and having taken Clausen in the 2nd round just one year ago. I would also have an easier time believing Newton was in the conversation for the #1 overall pick if the Panthers had a second round pick. The fact that they don't means they would be unlikely to get an immediate starter out of this draft... again, which is why they are a horrible team. It is just not a good way to work the draft and the Panthers are not a big time player in free agency, so they would basically be going with the same team that was horrible last year + a quarterback who can't start right away.

This #1 talk is coming from multiple draftniks with NFL sources. Most seem to be getting the feeling that Newton will be the top pick. He's invested considerably less than $2 million a year for Jimmy Clausen. Quarterback was the achilles heel of the Panthers team a year ago and there's no way anybody could make an argument that Clausen's performance was very disappointing. My gut is still telling me that Newton will be the pick. I'm fine with a different opinion though.

As a Bengals fan I don't think there's much of a chance that the team doesn't take Newton if he were on the board at fourth overall. I don't think it'd be a great fit for him, organization-wise, but I can't see Mike Brown passing on him with the team's current QB situation.

wonderbredd24
03-06-2011, 06:36 PM
This #1 talk is coming from multiple draftniks with NFL sources. Most seem to be getting the feeling that Newton will be the top pick. He's invested considerably less than $2 million a year for Jimmy Clausen. Quarterback was the achilles heel of the Panthers team a year ago and there's no way anybody could make an argument that Clausen's performance was very disappointing. My gut is still telling me that Newton will be the pick. I'm fine with a different opinion though.

As a Bengals fan I don't think there's much of a chance that the team doesn't take Newton if he were on the board at fourth overall. I don't think it'd be a great fit for him, organization-wise, but I can't see Mike Brown passing on him with the team's current QB situation.
I would love nothing more than for you to be right guaranteeing the Browns will get at least one of Marcell Dareus, Nick Fairley, Da'Quan Bowers, Robert Quinn or A.J. Green... preferably one of the tackles.

I think it would substantially easier to make that choice if they were not going to have to wait for another 62 players to go off the board before they pick again

Babylon
03-06-2011, 07:07 PM
Can we stop quoting draftniks as being some sort of authority as to who is going where, this is getting rediculous.

Rob Rang, who is a freaking school teacher by the way, supposedly has some sort of access to 7 differant teams. If somehow he does they are stupid to be leaking any info and second were these even teams that are in need of QBs. I think we're fast approaching the twilight zone here.

ChiFan24
03-06-2011, 07:23 PM
Can we stop quoting draftniks as being some sort of authority as to who is going where, this is getting rediculous.

Rob Rang, who is a freaking school teacher by the way, supposedly has some sort of access to 7 differant teams. If somehow he does they are stupid to be leaking any info and second were these even teams that are in need of QBs. I think we're fast approaching the twilight zone here.

If you're making a mock, it's a hell of a lot better to use a school teacher that works for a respected network than using absolutely nothing but personal opinion. Because then we end up with mocks where Newton falls out of the top 15, and that just is not going to happen.

the natural
03-06-2011, 07:27 PM
I would think they would be the most "plugged in" draft analysts. Mayock, Wyche, Lombardi, Kirwan, pretty much all of them are on the Gabbert bandwagon now. Word is that Gabbert interviewed the best of all the QBs in Indy. His test results were right there with the top guys across the board in the athletic events. I'm pretty sure that he is the best overall passer of the group, and will show that on his pro day. I don't think it will be close between him and any of the other QBs on draft day. But you never know.

ThePudge
03-06-2011, 07:48 PM
Can we stop quoting draftniks as being some sort of authority as to who is going where, this is getting rediculous.

Rob Rang, who is a freaking school teacher by the way, supposedly has some sort of access to 7 differant teams. If somehow he does they are stupid to be leaking any info and second were these even teams that are in need of QBs. I think we're fast approaching the twilight zone here.

This is a respected source with access to inside information from scouts that he keeps anonymous. I guarantee you Scott has a couple guys who he would never name that give him some inside info. That's how it works with higher profile/experienced draftniks like Scott, Rang, Josh Buchanan, and Wes Bunting. There are resources out there that you can look at and choose to trust or ignore. It's not all too dangerous and much less likely to be a smokescreen when the draft analyst keeps them anonymous.

wonderbredd24
03-06-2011, 07:51 PM
much less likely to be a smokescreen when the draft analyst keeps them anonymous.
Why is it less likely to be a smokescreen? I don't think it changes anything on that front.

Anonymous or not, "team sources" will use any outlet they see fit to get the misinformation out there.

San Diego Chicken
03-06-2011, 08:23 PM
Newton looked bad throwing at the combine and should have just saved it for his pro day. I think if any QB gets selected #1, it's Gabbert at this point, even though I really doubt he'll be anything special in the NFL.

ThePudge
03-06-2011, 08:23 PM
Why is it less likely to be a smokescreen? I don't think it changes anything on that front.

Anonymous or not, "team sources" will use any outlet they see fit to get the misinformation out there.

I don't see much of a point to keep a smokescreen anonymous. Many draftniks would lose their credibility if they were to reveal their sources. There is information out there and those who look closely can always predict the draft with more accuracy than the stubborn person who sits back and won't believe any of the inside info they are hit with. I don't believe everything, but there is plenty of stuff out there. People shouldn't just stick their nose up and ignore all "inside" info that flies around the internet. You can pick and choose what to ignore and what not to ignore.

grignotte
03-07-2011, 04:17 AM
Neither will Cam Newton be an UDFA nor a 3rd rounder. He and Gabbert are two first round locks.

I personnaly think that the top 4 QB's will get drafted in the first round. If Tim Tebow can be selected in the first round, I don't see why a guy like Locker couldn't. You can hate these guys (I put Mallett in this group too) as much as you want but they all have potential to offset some of their flaws, and with so many teams desperately in need of a QB...the chances of seeing all of them go in the first round are realistic.

descendency
03-07-2011, 05:00 AM
When you are picking #1 overall, you don't use smoke screens unless you are sure you can trade the pick.


Neither will Cam Newton be an UDFA nor a 3rd rounder. He and Gabbert are two first round locks.

I personnaly think that the top 4 QB's will get drafted in the first round. If Tim Tebow can be selected in the first round, I don't see why a guy like Locker couldn't. You can hate these guys (I put Mallett in this group too) as much as you want but they all have potential to offset some of their flaws, and with so many teams desperately in need of a QB...the chances of seeing all of them go in the first round are realistic.

I'd bet my house on Andy Dalton or Christian Ponder being a top 4 drafted QB. While lots of teams have Newton #1 and some teams have Gabbert #1, there will be a ton of teams that will not even rank Mallett. He's probably the best pure thrower in the draft, but there are rumors abound that he's a coke addicted jerk. Everyone keeps saying "Ryan Leaf" with him. That will cause him to fall. Jake Locker is probably a first rounder as well, but I wouldn't be shocked at all if the 4th QB is Christian Ponder (who is seriously under-rated). And No, I wouldn't put Colin Kapernick in that group. It may sound silly, but there are NFL Owners who would block the pick in round 1 because he has visible tattoos.

TACKLE
03-07-2011, 12:54 PM
Per Rotoworld

Panthers head coach Ron Rivera will be personally on hand for Auburn QB Cam Newton's Pro Day on Tuesday.

D-Unit
03-07-2011, 01:27 PM
I voted Cam Newton. Should be no surprise. I'm just glad we're past the Newton vs Locker, who's better debates.

wonderbredd24
03-07-2011, 01:28 PM
I voted Cam Newton. Should be no surprise. I'm just glad we're past the Newton vs Locker, who's better debates.
Better at what? Quarterback? I'll take Locker all day long.

Babylon
03-07-2011, 01:38 PM
Better at what? Quarterback? I'll take Locker all day long.

We may be the only two but i'm with you on this, the more you look at the maturity level, the physical ability and the intangibles of these two i think Locker will be the better player going forward. Probably doesnt mean he'll get drafted first but someone like the Redskins or the Vikings will get the better player.

RWills
03-07-2011, 01:40 PM
I'd bet my house on Andy Dalton or Christian Ponder being a top 4 drafted QB. While lots of teams have Newton #1 and some teams have Gabbert #1, there will be a ton of teams that will not even rank Mallett. He's probably the best pure thrower in the draft, but there are rumors abound that he's a coke addicted jerk. Everyone keeps saying "Ryan Leaf" with him. That will cause him to fall. Jake Locker is probably a first rounder as well, but I wouldn't be shocked at all if the 4th QB is Christian Ponder (who is seriously under-rated). And No, I wouldn't put Colin Kapernick in that group. It may sound silly, but there are NFL Owners who would block the pick in round 1 because he has visible tattoos.

There was a mock that I saw that had me thinking.....this mock had Ponder going round 1 to Jax....when I saw this I can't help but think that it actually could happen, the team that made Alua a top 10 pick really could take Ponder here, I don't agree with it, but I don't think it is far off from reality

wonderbredd24
03-07-2011, 01:43 PM
We may be the only two but i'm with you on this, the more you look at the maturity level, the physical ability and the intangibles of these two i think Locker will be the better player going forward. Probably doesnt mean he'll get drafted first but someone like the Redskins or the Vikings will get the better player.
You, me, and evidently the dude with his name on the site.

Locker has everything you love about Tebow, except he has slightly better footwork (albeit something that still needs work) and such a free and easy throwing motion.

I'm curious what people look for in a quarterback... if you were going to list the Top 5 things you want in a quarterback, what would they be?

For me, it goes...

1. Accuracy
2. Poise
3. Leadership
4. Work Ethic
5. Arm Strength

Locker is 4/5 with accuracy being the one that he needs to establish. For me, Newton definitely has Poise and Arm Strength... I have serious reservations about the work ethic and accuracy and I frankly have no clue about the leadership. So Newton is 2 or 3 out of 5.

Babylon
03-07-2011, 02:17 PM
You, me, and evidently the dude with his name on the site.

Locker has everything you love about Tebow, except he has slightly better footwork (albeit something that still needs work) and such a free and easy throwing motion.

I'm curious what people look for in a quarterback... if you were going to list the Top 5 things you want in a quarterback, what would they be?

For me, it goes...

1. Accuracy
2. Poise
3. Leadership
4. Work Ethic
5. Arm Strength

Locker is 4/5 with accuracy being the one that he needs to establish. For me, Newton definitely has Poise and Arm Strength... I have serious reservations about the work ethic and accuracy and I frankly have no clue about the leadership. So Newton is 2 or 3 out of 5.

I think the people that would prefer Cam would point to this past season for the two players. Newton had a great year with a good supporting cast although he wasnt asked to make a ton of differant reads as you have pointed out.

Locker this past year was asked to do everything, carry a poor receiving corps behind a young and at times injured line. The thing is like buying a stock, past performances are no indication of future results.

D-Unit
03-07-2011, 02:32 PM
Better at what? Quarterback? I'll take Locker all day long.
How about as an NFL draft prospect? I win.

wonderbredd24
03-07-2011, 02:36 PM
How about as an NFL draft prospect? I win.
Did I miss the draft?

Babylon
03-07-2011, 02:39 PM
I feel a poll coming on.

LonghornsLegend
03-07-2011, 02:51 PM
Going to a pro day isn't a smoke screen, I don't see how you can put the two together. He's going to the pro day to see if he even wants to draft him, pretty sure that's not a smokescreen letting people know he's going to scout a player. A smoke screen to me usually starts something like "sources inside the Panthers organization say they have Gabbert as their #1 QB", not going to a workout.


But unless your trying to have leverage in contract talks, the #1 team doesn't need to play mind games.

wonderbredd24
03-07-2011, 02:56 PM
Going to a pro day isn't a smoke screen, I don't see how you can put the two together. He's going to the pro day to see if he even wants to draft him, pretty sure that's not a smokescreen letting people know he's going to scout a player. A smoke screen to me usually starts something like "sources inside the Panthers organization say they have Gabbert as their #1 QB", not going to a workout.


But unless your trying to have leverage in contract talks, the #1 team doesn't need to play mind games.
No? The Falcons cut Jeff George's workout short to send out the message they were going to draft him. As a result, they were able to get the Colts 1st, Andre Rison, a talented guard whose name escapes me at the moment, and their 1st the following year so the Colts could take George.

I'm sure Ron Rivera is doing his due diligence, but you can't rule out anything.

gpngc
03-07-2011, 10:16 PM
The Charlotte Observer's Darin Gantt predicts that Auburn QB Cam Newton will be the No. 1 overall pick in the draft.
"I think they were so set on Andrew Luck coming out, they're not going to wait," explains Gantt. "They need a quarterback." Gantt is the most clued-in Panthers beat writer in the country, so it would be difficult to not trust him. He also believes coach Ron Rivera "is going (to Auburn's Pro Day) for a reason," and that's to meet with the Panthers' next franchise quarterback.

Rotoworld.

the natural
03-07-2011, 11:53 PM
Gantt also said that "maybe if I was going to Peterson's pro day tomorrow instead, I'd have him at the top of the list, instead...", and ....."I don't think it's outrageous [taking Newton first overall]. I think it could happen. So I pushed a button...".... Doesn't really sound to me like someone who knows any more than you or I about what the team is going to do.

It is the same situation as when reporters interviewed Rivera at the combine. They asked him "What do you think of drafting Cam Newton?". So, of course Rivera said..."Well, we are going to look at him along with a bunch of other guys, certainly he showed a lot of talent...blah, blah, blah.". Then by passing from one ear to another it somehow became "RIVERA SOLD ON NEWTON AS PANTHERS TOP PICK!".

ThePudge
03-08-2011, 01:23 AM
Gantt also said that "maybe if I was going to Peterson's pro day tomorrow instead, I'd have him at the top of the list, instead...", and ....."I don't think it's outrageous [taking Newton first overall]. I think it could happen. So I pushed a button...".... Doesn't really sound to me like someone who knows any more than you or I about what the team is going to do.

Do you seriously think you're on the same level of credibility in this matter as the Panthers top beat writer?

the natural
03-08-2011, 01:30 AM
Well, Pudge open those tiny eyes sunk deep into the flesh of your face and read what Gantt is saying. Does it sound like he has Rivera and Hurley's sworn statement in his hand?

GoRavens
03-08-2011, 11:36 AM
Does it make any sense for Carolina to take a project QB, like Cam Newton #1?
Not at all, damn sports writers are so quick to forget about Jimmy Clausen.
Give the kid time, Cam Newton to the panthers would be such a pathetic pick.
I say they trade it to Dallas.

SchizophrenicBatman
03-08-2011, 12:00 PM
Saying that Gantt is the most clued in Panthers reporter in the country is like saying that Barry Melrose is the most clued in hockey reporter on ESPN. It doesn't mean much if he's the only effing guy

FWIW Gantt thought Shockey had no chance of coming to Carolina when it was first reported

asdf1223
03-08-2011, 01:21 PM
Exactly. This was the MLIVE guy on March 19, 2009.
When asked about the first pick, Kowalski sticks to his guns, saying the Lions are most likely to grab a left tackle with the first pick of the draft.
I wouldn't be surprised if the team asks him to put a story like that.

SeanTaylorRIP
03-08-2011, 03:56 PM
Does it make any sense for Carolina to take a project QB, like Cam Newton #1?
Not at all, damn sports writers are so quick to forget about Jimmy Clausen.
Give the kid time, Cam Newton to the panthers would be such a pathetic pick.
I say they trade it to Dallas.

It's similar logic but if the Panthers think Newton will be a stud they have to take him. Look at the Dolphins for example, yeah Jake Long is an All pro but they passed up on a franchise QB in Matt Ryan because they already had a young QB with potential in Chad Henne. Same thing goes here, if Rivera and crew really believe they can turn Newton into a franchise QB they'd be dumb to pass on him because of Jimmy Claussen. Only the Panthers FO knows what they should do.

D-Unit
03-08-2011, 04:00 PM
It's similar logic but if the Panthers think Newton will be a stud they have to take him. Look at the Dolphins for example, yeah Joe Thomas is an All pro but they passed up on a franchise QB in Matt Ryan because they already had a young QB with potential in Chad Henne. Same thing goes here, if Rivera and crew really believe they can turn Newton into a franchise QB they'd be dumb to pass on him because of Jimmy Claussen. Only the Panthers FO knows what they should do.
Tony Sparano is wishing Parcells got him Matt Ryan instead. Carolina will learn from that and take Newton. Claussen is a nice backup.

wonderbredd24
03-08-2011, 04:03 PM
Tony Sparano is wishing Parcells got him Matt Ryan instead. Carolina will learn from that and take Newton. Claussen is a nice backup.
Thank God Oakland went with JaMarcus Russell so Cleveland could 'settle' for Joe Thomas.

Iamcanadian
03-08-2011, 04:03 PM
Tony Sparano is wishing Parcells got him Matt Ryan instead. Carolina will learn from that and take Newton. Claussen is a nice backup.

It was definitely Parcells decision and in his later years, Parcells came to believe you could win with a veteran QB and downgraded the position in his drafts. It really cost the Dolphins in the end.

SeanTaylorRIP
03-08-2011, 04:05 PM
Tony Sparano is wishing Parcells got him Matt Ryan instead. Carolina will learn from that and take Newton. Claussen is a nice backup.

Yup I think you have to go QB. Claussen isn't being paid anymore than a good backup gets paid so they shouldn't feel tied down to him. The biggest factor though is that there is no clear cut better player to justify not getting a franchise QB. The only guy who I think you could justify taking #1 is Peterson, but taking a DB at #1 is risky business, and even if he is an all pro from day 1 what are the chances the Panthers overall are any better.

SeanTaylorRIP
03-08-2011, 04:08 PM
Tony Sparano is wishing Parcells got him Matt Ryan instead. Carolina will learn from that and take Newton. Claussen is a nice backup.

Thank God Oakland went with JaMarcus Russell so Cleveland could 'settle' for Joe Thomas.

Seeing the Raiders QB situation still, you can't argue that Jamarcus was the wrong pick. Who would have thought that he'd becomes so damn lazy. It's easy to say now that it was an awful pick but at the time I had no problem with Jamarcus going #1 overall even if he wasn't the bpa. If you don't have a franchise QB that should be your #1 concern.

wonderbredd24
03-08-2011, 04:09 PM
Seeing the Raiders QB situation still, you can't argue that Jamarcus was the wrong pick. Who would have thought that he'd becomes so damn lazy. It's easy to say now that it was an awful pick but at the time I had no problem with Jamarcus going #1 overall even if he wasn't the bpa. If you don't have a franchise QB that should be your #1 concern.
QB should be your #1 concern, but in order to take a quarterback #1 overall, you have to believe he's the best option or very close. JaMarcus Russell wasn't. Cameron Newton isn't (in my opinion).

Babylon
03-08-2011, 04:14 PM
Seeing the Raiders QB situation still, you can't argue that Jamarcus was the wrong pick. Who would have thought that he'd becomes so damn lazy. It's easy to say now that it was an awful pick but at the time I had no problem with Jamarcus going #1 overall even if he wasn't the bpa. If you don't have a franchise QB that should be your #1 concern.

Beyond the lazyness and the weight gain he just wasnt accurate with the Raiders, especially early on. When i watched him at LSU i thought he hung his receivers out to dry on a regular basis. He shouldnt have gone before Joe Thomas and Calvin Johnson but that caliber of player is not in the conversation this year i dont think.

hockey619
12-17-2011, 01:08 AM
with all of the hate coming out for gabbert, i think its time for everyone to come back to thread like this one and look back on the natural and others defending his sorry excuse for quarterback play.

also: what happened to the pudge? hes been MIA for a lot of this season anyone know?



Pudge:
you grade him as a second rounder? Honestly, I'll give him 3-5 round grade right now because he supposedly did well in interviews (something im not privy to). Hes got a solid arm, can extend plays, and size...and thats it. Thats all. His footwork is eh, his accuracy is inconsistent, idk i really dont see it with him.

You said his pocket prescense was poor? Lets not sugar coat it, its freaking atrocious. If his first read isnt open (and he doesnt just force the throw anyway), he runs from the pocket, whether his pocket was perfect or not. if he stayed in school i think he wouldve had a snead like free fall. He looks scared to me, not something you want in a guy trying to lead men.

Gabbert is big with an arm. Thats really all he has.

Hes inaccurate, showed little ability to make reads, made questionable decisions, and seems abrasive and not the leader type. Id be very dissappointed if i was the fan of a team that took him with the intention of making him the franchise qb.

nice try gabs, even I, a man who championed Jawalrus, could not be fooled by you you waste of space.

descendency
12-17-2011, 01:22 AM
also: what happened to the pudge? hes been MIA for a lot of this season anyone know?

I think someone said he got married, so his balls were cut off.

Halsey
12-17-2011, 01:50 AM
hockey69 owes everyone an explanation of why he was leading the Nate Davis fan club a couple of years ago. Nate Davis is now a backup in Arena football. She needs to defend Davis' sorry excuse for Arena League play.

And I hate Stafford as a prospect, hes got an arm.....and thats it. Nothing special in production or anything compared to my personal fav, Nate Davis.

http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1190821&highlight=Nate+Davis#post1190821

Complex
12-17-2011, 01:59 AM
I think someone said he got married, so his balls were cut off.

He started posting on the other site(forgot the name draftsomething.com)only, IDK if he still post there.

TitanHope
12-17-2011, 02:04 AM
I think someone said he got married, so his balls were cut off.

Marrying a praying mantis is always a bad decision, no matter how pretty she may be.

hockey619
12-17-2011, 12:24 PM
hockey69 owes everyone an explanation of why he was leading the Nate Davis fan club a couple of years ago. Nate Davis is now a backup in Arena football. She needs to defend Davis' sorry excuse for Arena League play.



http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1190821&highlight=Nate+Davis#post1190821

haha oh yes one of my finer picks. I didnt know he had a developmental issue. and was apparently fairly lazy.


then again, on the very rare occassions you do commit to something in a post other than backhanded sarcastic drivel or some general sweeping psychological observation (everyone always knocks the first round qb's to be different) it doesnt work out well for you either.

Assuming he stays healthy, I believe he'll [Gabbert] be a good starting QB.

i only got you to give an opinion on him after posts of not really committing to any view of him at all. at least i have the nuts to make a call and admit i was wrong.

Babylon
12-17-2011, 12:33 PM
I think someone said he got married, so his balls were cut off.

Hasn't stopped me from posting in here.

Iamcanadian
12-17-2011, 12:56 PM
Beyond the lazyness and the weight gain he just wasnt accurate with the Raiders, especially early on. When i watched him at LSU i thought he hung his receivers out to dry on a regular basis. He shouldnt have gone before Joe Thomas and Calvin Johnson but that caliber of player is not in the conversation this year i dont think.

I disagree, on talent alone he was a sure fire franchise QB. Unfortunately we don't have access to the man himself, so there is no way we would know how lazy and uninterested he was in pro football. He put nothing into the game and as a result, he was doomed to flop.
Oakland under Al Davis, probably was the worst franchise that could have drafted him since they are known as an undisciplined team and he needed strong discipline right out of the gate. Maybe if he had been drafted by a team with a tough HC and a strong locker room, he might have developed normally and been successful, but we will never know.

FUNBUNCHER
12-17-2011, 01:22 PM
Great bump.

In hindsight, too much love for Gabbert. Too little faith in Newton.
PP doesn't look like the 2nd coming of Champ Bailey.

When Mallett finally gets on the field as a starter for a team not named the Patriots, I think we will look back at this QB class as being one of the strongest in recent memory.

Just hope that Mallett isn't on Hurd's list of preferred clientele.

Brent
12-17-2011, 02:04 PM
Hasn't stopped me from posting in here.
then, clearly, you have a cool wife.

Iamcanadian
12-17-2011, 02:21 PM
It is definitely a group that surprised a lot of people both in its quality and depth.

We are just beginning to see the effects of junior QB's declaring on mass, in an era where college QB's are throwing the ball a ton. It wasn't too long ago, that even the best college QB's were on teams that ran the ball significantly more than they threw it, making judging them for the next level, extremely difficult.

College QB's are far more ready to play in the NFL today because they are throwing the ball 3x as much in college, they are simply far more pro ready than previous generations of QB's were.

While we seem to worry about systems and technique, the fact is, these QB's have a ton more experience in throwing a ball during game conditions.

Getting back to declaring as juniors, I don't think even pro scouts and GM's have completely caught up with the idea. There is a huge gap in maturity between most senior and junior QB's, so when pro scouts interview them and watch them play, they are reluctant to throw their full weight behind them, they can see the potential but the rawness scares them quite a bit.

No doubt talent evaluators will catch up with rating junior QB's, after all, they have no choice, and they will make firmer predictions about prospects ceilings and potential.

What is interesting is that this year's crop of QB's appears to be even better, should make the NFL an interesting place for close competition.

hockey619
12-17-2011, 02:48 PM
Great bump.

In hindsight, too much love for Gabbert. Too little faith in Newton.
PP doesn't look like the 2nd coming of Champ Bailey.

When Mallett finally gets on the field as a starter for a team not named the Patriots, I think we will look back at this QB class as being one of the strongest in recent memory.

Just hope that Mallett isn't on Hurd's list of preferred clientele.

^ haha i hope mallett is clean, he could be so good. saw a game from last year of his, he really could be a damn good qb if he puts his heart into it. and no coke.

as for the bold, i was very guilty of this as well. I thought his shotty footwork would be a much bigger problem for him but he has already made great strides in that department.

MI_Buckeye
12-19-2011, 02:04 AM
Meh. I think everyone knew Gabbert was a long-term project, and given his CFL cast of receivers, I think it is way too early to write him off. He has the head, work ethic and physical ability to play at a very high level eventually.

Remember, Rick Meier was better than Drew Bledsoe as a rookie, and Tony Eason was better than John Elway. Heck there were even rumors of the Pack being so frustrated with Aaron Rodgers that they were willing to spend the No. 5 pick the next year on Jay Cutler.