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View Full Version : Marcus Cannon vs. Nate Solder


Black Bolt
02-26-2011, 08:53 PM
IMO, Cannon is now a late first and Solder is and always was a project 2nd rounder without a mean streak. Thoughts?

FootballGod
02-26-2011, 08:55 PM
I completely agree.

contento
02-26-2011, 09:04 PM
Cannon has been criminally underrated for a while now. I think he should be in the mention with Pouncey and Watkins for possible late 1st round guards.


Him and "Pot Roast" Knighton could have a competition for biggest ass in the league!

ATLDirtyBirds
02-26-2011, 09:57 PM
I've felt like Cannon's been underrated for a while because of how much he weighs. The guy can play.

Iamcanadian
02-26-2011, 10:09 PM
No way that happens. Not a chance.

I agree that Cannon is an amazing athlete, however, the question remains, can he carry that weight and play hard in the 3rd and 4th quarter of a game at the pro level. His endurance isn't going to show at the combine where the drills are short lived, but they will show at the pro level.
How committed is he to stay in shape as a pro??? It is going to cost him millions of dollars because of the weight he is carrying and if he won't get into serious shape for the Combine(a job interview after all), how can you count on him as a pro to stay in shape???
IMO, he has round 1 talent but could easily slip to late round 2 or even round 3 because of weight concerns, it is a huge red flag for me.

Solder moved up from his performance at the Combine. He is going to play at 335-340lbs. and with his intellegence, he will be something special once he works hard on his technique which is his only weakness.
While I agree that he has some learning to do, in 2 or 3 years, he will be a totally dominating LT at the next level.

descendency
02-26-2011, 10:09 PM
I think he should be in the mention with Pouncey and Watkins for possible late 1st round guards.

ZERO percent chance of Watkins in round 1. 27 year old guards do not go in round 1.

Iamcanadian
02-26-2011, 10:12 PM
ZERO percent chance of Watkins in round 1. 27 year old guards do not go in round 1.

I agree, at his age, round 2 is his likely destination.

fenikz
02-26-2011, 10:15 PM
how about 26 year old guards like Danny Watkins

:p

descendency
02-26-2011, 11:09 PM
how about 26 year old guards like Danny Watkins

:p

Eh, he will be 27 mid-season (probably around the time he makes his first start)

Black Bolt
02-26-2011, 11:29 PM
What exactly did Solder do that would cause him to move up? Everyone knew he would perform well in combine drills, and it's not like he gave a Bruce Campbell-esque performance at that. And like I said, he does not have a mean streak.

No way that happens. Not a chance.

I agree that Cannon is an amazing athlete, however, the question remains, can he carry that weight and play hard in the 3rd and 4th quarter of a game at the pro level. His endurance isn't going to show at the combine where the drills are short lived, but they will show at the pro level.
How committed is he to stay in shape as a pro??? It is going to cost him millions of dollars because of the weight he is carrying and if he won't get into serious shape for the Combine(a job interview after all), how can you count on him as a pro to stay in shape???
IMO, he has round 1 talent but could easily slip to late round 2 or even round 3 because of weight concerns, it is a huge red flag for me.

Solder moved up from his performance at the Combine. He is going to play at 335-340lbs. and with his intellegence, he will be something special once he works hard on his technique which is his only weakness.
While I agree that he has some learning to do, in 2 or 3 years, he will be a totally dominating LT at the next level.

FloridaFootball1
02-27-2011, 12:00 AM
Nothing really changed IMO, they both performed as expected and Solder is still a mid-late 1st rounder and Cannon is still a borderline 1st rounder.

contento
02-27-2011, 11:04 AM
ZERO percent chance of Watkins in round 1. 27 year old guards do not go in round 1.



When he enters the league at 27 you can realistically expect 5 good year from him.


Teams that are built to win now, like the Packers/Steelers/Eagles/Bears/Pats/etc, and have a need at G will surely take a chance on the best G in the draft.

5 good seasons is more than enough to warrant a 1st round pick from certain franchises

rawdawg
02-27-2011, 12:22 PM
No way that happens. Not a chance.

I agree that Cannon is an amazing athlete, however, the question remains, can he carry that weight and play hard in the 3rd and 4th quarter of a game at the pro level. His endurance isn't going to show at the combine where the drills are short lived, but they will show at the pro level.
How committed is he to stay in shape as a pro??? It is going to cost him millions of dollars because of the weight he is carrying and if he won't get into serious shape for the Combine(a job interview after all), how can you count on him as a pro to stay in shape???



Did you actually see him? He carries 358lbs very well. And he did come to the combine in pretty good shape. Word is that he was over 370 this year. There's no way you can look at Cannon yesterday and knock him for being out of shape.

descendency
02-27-2011, 12:31 PM
When he enters the league at 27 you can realistically expect 5 good year from him.

5 average years. The reason why players are in their "prime" at 27 is because they usually have 5 years of Pro experience (good instincts) and they are still physically ready. When you take away that experience, you significantly reduce the impact of the player.

By the time he has 5 years of experience, he will be 31.5 - his body won't be primed and ready to do what he needs. His "prime" may come at like age 29 where his physical and mental sides combine to produce the best season... which to say isn't a good thing.

He is worth a late second rounder, not first. Guys who command first round picks have high upside, elite versatility, and a large number of expected prime years.

I will admit, he has first round talent, but no one is going to take a 26.5 year old guard in the first round.

Did you actually see him? He carries 358lbs very well. And he did come to the combine in pretty good shape. Word is that he was over 370 this year. There's no way you can look at Cannon yesterday and knock him for being out of shape.

He's a physical freak. No one says it because he's not built like Tyron Smith or a skill position player, but it's very hard to be 350 LBs and run a 5.2 40. If he did well (didn't see it) in the positional drills, he probably will see his stock skyrocket. The only questions I would have at 350 LBs are about his endurance in the 4th QT of playoff games. Can he keep up with everyone else?

ellsy82
02-27-2011, 02:01 PM
What exactly did Solder do that would cause him to move up? Everyone knew he would perform well in combine drills, and it's not like he gave a Bruce Campbell-esque performance at that. And like I said, he does not have a mean streak.

Completely agree.

Iamcanadian
02-27-2011, 02:35 PM
Did you actually see him? He carries 358lbs very well. And he did come to the combine in pretty good shape. Word is that he was over 370 this year. There's no way you can look at Cannon yesterday and knock him for being out of shape.

In short drills, being overweight is not noticeable but in the 3rd and 4th quarter of a football game at the pro level, it is very noticeable and players like Cannon can no longer play at a high level.
He has shown no interest in college at staying in shape and there is no reason to believe he will be any different at the pro level. It is a huge red flag for pro GM's and scouts, and he will drop to late round 2 or round 3 on draft day because of it. It doesn't matter that he has top 20 talent, what good is it if he won't work hard at staying in shape.

Matthew Jones
02-27-2011, 03:36 PM
About the Danny Watkins thing a little bit earlier - I think people are overestimating the impact that his age will have on his draft stock. The jobs of a lot of coaching staffs and GMs are not secure enough to take on a bunch of prospects with physical tools to develop over a couple of years, they need to continue to fill holes on the roster and win football games in order to keep their jobs. If a team's decision-makers are on the hot seat, they're going to look for guys who can help them win right away, not years down the road. Getting even as little as five years out of Watkins stepping in immediately could be more conducive to job security than taking a guy who needs specialized coaching and time to develop, time that these guys may not have.

contento
02-27-2011, 03:55 PM
5 average years. The reason why players are in their "prime" at 27 is because they usually have 5 years of Pro experience (good instincts) and they are still physically ready. When you take away that experience, you significantly reduce the impact of the player.

By the time he has 5 years of experience, he will be 31.5 - his body won't be primed and ready to do what he needs. His "prime" may come at like age 29 where his physical and mental sides combine to produce the best season... which to say isn't a good thing.

He is worth a late second rounder, not first. Guys who command first round picks have high upside, elite versatility, and a large number of expected prime years.

I will admit, he has first round talent, but no one is going to take a 26.5 year old guard in the first round.





You'll be hard pressed to find a analyst who thinks Watkins needs a lot of experience to excel in the NFL. He's a plug and play type of G, along the lines of Iupati/Hutchinson.


If, hypothetically, the Packers lose Sitton to FA, Watkins is more than a realistic pick at 32. He absolutely will not be on the board in the late 2nd, no matter what you think he's "worth".

JohnCandy
02-27-2011, 03:57 PM
The issue that comes up with Cannon is that his game tape is not dominant. You would think at 358lbs. that he would be physically dominant, like Shawn Andrews, but he does not.

I rewatched the Rose Bowl and I saw 0 WOW blocks.

ellsy82
02-27-2011, 04:54 PM
The issue that comes up with Cannon is that his game tape is not dominant. You would think at 358lbs. that he would be physically dominant, like Shawn Andrews, but he does not.

I rewatched the Rose Bowl and I saw 0 WOW blocks.

You also saw 0 wiffed blocks.

ATLDirtyBirds
02-27-2011, 04:58 PM
The issue that comes up with Cannon is that his game tape is not dominant. You would think at 358lbs. that he would be physically dominant, like Shawn Andrews, but he does not.

I rewatched the Rose Bowl and I saw 0 WOW blocks.

A WOW block? Really?

CaneBang
02-27-2011, 05:34 PM
There's no way I'm taking Cannon over Solder at this point. Don't get me wrong, Cannon is a special talent, but I have to agree with IAC on this one. Cannon's lack of determination to keep himself in order while at TCU is kinda alerting.

Solder is not only a more technical player but he has at least twice the intelligence of Cannon and should be a much better long term solution for an NFL team 10-15 years from now.

I think Cannon could be a better immediate impact, but if I'm drafting a player that has a good head on his shoulders and better long term future, Solder is my pick far and away.

JohnCandy
02-27-2011, 05:43 PM
1. OT Tyron Smith [USC] 6'5" 307lbs. 29 [225]

The athletic ability jumps off the scree and page with him and he could be an excellent LT in our passing offense. The problem is that there is 0 chance the Bears can get him.

2. OT Anthony Costanzo [Boston College] 6'7" 311lbs. 28 [22], 5.23 [40], 29.5" Vert.

A solid physical specimen who's technique stands out. He might never be flashy, but I cannot see him busting at all. I think he moved himself into the top 20 and out of reach of the Bears.

3. OT Gabe Carimi [Wisconsin] 6'7" 314lbs. 29 [225], 5.27 [40], 29" Vert.

He did exactly what I expected him to do, he looked solid, he tested well and then struggled with his lateral mobility. Carimi is a versatile battler but does not appear to be elite.

4. OT Derek Sherrod [Mississippi State] 6'5" 321lbs. 23 [225], 5.28 [40], 28"Vert.

This is the player that I am locking into for the Bears. He was average in the testing, but carried 320lbs really well and he showed really good feet and mobility in the drills. He looks like a LT that will hold up, but dominate.

5. OT Nate Solder [Colorado] 6'8" 319lbs. 21 [225], 5.05 [40] 32" Vert.

No player in the draft scares me more then Solder. He moves incredibly well, but plays upright and soft and did not show the strength necessary to keep NFL DEs off of his body. I see him as being more show then go right now.

6. OG Marcus Cannon [TCU] 6'5" 358lbs. 33 [225], 5.26 [40], 30.5" Vert.

Cannon is impressive physically and he tested off the charts for a 360lbs. man. My problem with him is that he does not physically dominate like a 360lbs man. He compares to Shawn Andrews only he does not have the tape.

7. OG Mike Pouncey [Florida] 6'5" 303lbs. 5.28 [40], 25" Vert.

He did nothing to impress or scare me away. He has a solid physical make up, but did not look like his brother in the drills. I was hoping he would move better in the slide and mirror drills.

8. OG Rodney Hudson [Florida St] 6'2" 299lbs. 27 [225], 5.31 [40], 28" Vert.

Hudson does not look like a football player and had the most pronounced man boobs at the combine. But he still looks technically sound in the drills and his footwork is flawless.

9 OT/OG Ben Ijalana [Villanova] 6'3" 317lbs.

I would have liked to have seen him do some of the testing, but 36" arms ad the build at 317lbs. make him look like an interesting option at LG.

10. OG Danny Watkins [Baylor] 6'3" 310lbs. 29 [225], 5.4 [40], 26" Vert.

The guy looks like a mountain man and he looked solid, not spectacular, in the testing and moved his feet really well and showed serious power at the Senior Bowl. If he was 22 he would be in the top 5.

contento
02-27-2011, 06:23 PM
You also saw 0 wiffed blocks.



Cannon got called for 2 false starts and a hold IIRC.


Still, it's no easy task playing against JJ Watt

Monomach
02-27-2011, 06:30 PM
A WOW block? Really?

I can't find this stat on the back of any of my old football cards.

bitonti
02-28-2011, 01:19 PM
1. OT Tyron Smith [USC] 6'5" 307lbs. 29 [225]

The athletic ability jumps off the scree and page with him and he could be an excellent LT in our passing offense. The problem is that there is 0 chance the Bears can get him.

6. OG Marcus Cannon [TCU] 6'5" 358lbs. 33 [225], 5.26 [40], 30.5" Vert.[/b]

Cannon is impressive physically and he tested off the charts for a 360lbs. man. My problem with him is that he does not physically dominate like a 360lbs man. He compares to Shawn Andrews only he does not have the tape.
.

this is a great write up but how can Tyron Smith's athletic ability jump off the screen when he doesn't work out? He benched and weighed in... and he never has played LT. I think his stock is still very much in play for the Bears pick... Alot to like but also alot of risk there.


Cannon will get props from the media but within league circles there is such a thing as too big... remember Herman Johnson. LSU (now with the Bears) was looked at as a 2nd/3rd rounder until the draft when he went in round 5 ... Cannon has better feat than Herman Johnson but still he's not going to be a round 1 or possibly even round 2 is a stretch cause there's a real risk he could eat himself out of the league.

Saints-Tigers
02-28-2011, 01:33 PM
Herman Johnson doesn't really have a weight issue though, he looks slimmer than most 320 pound guys, he's just so incredibly huge and stiff.

Costanzo seems like he's underrated, he always looks good to me, and his measurables are really nice, and he just seems so pro ready with nice upside as well, I really like him.

Dark Knight01
02-28-2011, 02:27 PM
The answer to this topic is simple:

Solder is a pure Left Tackle.

Cannon is a for sure starter at either Guard positions and can possibly develop into a RT.