Alan Faneca Holdout?

[DeathbyStat]

ALan Faneca may hold out.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07080/771176-66.stm

I think with the redick contracts guards are getting the (the Steve Hutchinson effect) The steelers won't be able to resign this guy.

I think the Steelers should just trade him and get some value.

What would the value be? I think for a bad team that is desperate they could give a second rounder.

[eacantdraft]

Guards don't get much value. A 4th would be the highest you could get.

[NIN1984]

Maybe the Cards will trade for him if he really wants out.

[Eaglez.Fan]

Texans????

[ks_perfection]

Guards don't get much value. A 4th would be the highest you could get.

That was true a couple of years ago but with the huge salaries there getting teams obviously value them more.

[WinslowBodden]

Trade him to Cleveland... Mmmmmm

[frogstomp]

Trade him to Cleveland... Mmmmmm

Mmm.... knee injuries are finger licking good.

[Komp]

I'm sure my Raiders will take him off your hands...lord knows we need decent OL....

[portermvp84]

Yeah we'll give them Robert Gallery and a 5th staright up lol.

[bigbluedefense]

Mmm.... knee injuries are finger licking good.

Lol, you deliver every time.

[A-Dub4President]

He's going to the Cards for a third rounder folks. We've got the Grimm.

[DeathbyStat]

Mmm.... knee injuries are finger licking good.

HA HA! that was great

[DeathbyStat]

I could see him in arizona for a second or a third I agree. But I don't think the steelers have the balls to trade him

[JoeMontainya]

HA HA! that was great

Holly cow I just got it.....hes refering to the Browns Knee injuries of late like 1 million other poster have done previously!!!!!!!! How original.

[DeathbyStat]

Would you rather have him bring up the Drive or the Fumble or Craig Ehlo getting destroyed by Micheal Jordan

[TheGunShow]

Guards don't get much value. A 4th would be the highest you could get.

BWAHAHAHAHAHA! He's made SIX straight pro bowls! He's worth a first plus another first day pick based on games played and pro bowl performance next year. The Bears are in need of a OG. Maybe their first or Mark Anderson and a conditional pick next year.

A 4th? Really! Would you of traded Will Shields when he was 30 for a 4th?

[draftguru151]

He is 30 years old. A first rounder for a 30 year old OG? Not happening. I can't see someone giving up anymore than a 3rd.

[AdrianWilson12]

BWAHAHAHAHAHA! He's made SIX straight pro bowls! He's worth a first plus another first day pick based on games played and pro bowl performance next year. The Bears are in need of a OG. Maybe their first or Mark Anderson and a conditional pick next year.

A 4th? Really! Would you of traded Will Shields when he was 30 for a 4th?

Yeah, but that's just it, he's 30 and a guard. Sure, I'd give a early third for him, but would a NFL team? Keep in mind he's holding out, so his value goes down even more.

With Grimm and Whisenhunt, I'm sure the Cardinals will look into it.

[Young Nasty Man]

He's a 2nd or 3rd round pick. Definatley not a first becuase of his age and not a 4th because of his abilities. That and they can't afford to re-sign him so they aren't the ones taht can really do the demanding. Though he is one of the top tier offensive guards so I wouldn't be surprised if he not only gets a huge contract, but if he also gets traded for a decent pick.

[frogstomp]

Holly cow I just got it.....hes refering to the Browns Knee injuries of late like 1 million other poster have done previously!!!!!!!! How original.

The sad part is, I'm willing to believe it actually took you four hours to get it.

Stop being so bitter, it makes it seem like you looked down your pants recently and suddenly felt the urge to compensate for something.

[TheGunShow]

He's 30. Not 35. He has five good years left of a proven commodity. If you draft Ben Grubbs in the first what's to say he's not just a bust that never sees the field. Faneca you know you are going to get a pro bowl performance from. If the Cards would trade their early second round pick and either a player or a conditional draft pick I'd say that would be fair. But a third or fourth! Screw that we'll get a third for him as a compensatory pick when he signs his NFL record deal for a guard!

[bigbluedefense]

Faneca is NOT worth a 1st. Come on now.

He's 30, and for NFL standards thats a old. Grubbs is worth a late 1st because he has roughly 8 years on Faneca. Thats 8 more years of production.

Faneca is a great player, but don't be like the typical Steelers homer that says things like Hines Ward should be in the HOF because he can block, or how Ben Roethlisberger is the big 11111!. Im not saying this in a negative way directly at you, rather giving you words of advice.

[TheGunShow]

Faneca is NOT worth a 1st. Come on now.

He's 30, and for NFL standards thats a old. Grubbs is worth a late 1st because he has roughly 8 years on Faneca. Thats 8 more years of production.

Faneca is a great player, but don't be like the typical Steelers homer that says things like Hines Ward should be in the HOF because he can block, or how Ben Roethlisberger is the big 11111!. Im not saying this in a negative way directly at you, rather giving you words of advice.

Or LT made Tom Jackson pee his pants just by looking at him.

He has five good years left! The next contract he signs will be his last. But who is to say Ben Grubbs first contract for whoever drafts him isn't his last?

Would you not trade a late first for Steve Hutchinson?

[bigbluedefense]

Or LT made Tom Jackson pee his pants just by looking at him.

He has five good years left! The next contract he signs will be his last. But who is to say Ben Grubbs first contract for whoever drafts him isn't his last?

Would you not trade a late first for Steve Hutchinson?

The LT thing actually happened.

No, I wouldn't. Not in this draft. This draft is stacked with talented OGs, and why should I give up a 1st for an OG at the latter end of his career when I can easily find a young talented OG that I can potentially have on my roster for much longer? Doesn't make sense.

Hutch is great, don't get me wrong. But its always better to go youth movement. Every GM in the league will tell you that.

If the Steelers couldve gotten a 1st for Faneca, he wouldve been out the door along time ago.

[Ravens1991]

I could see a 2nd to a win now team.

[TheGunShow]

The LT thing actually happened.

No, I wouldn't. Not in this draft. This draft is stacked with talented OGs, and why should I give up a 1st for an OG at the latter end of his career when I can easily find a young talented OG that I can potentially have on my roster for much longer? Doesn't make sense.

Hutch is great, don't get me wrong. But its always better to go youth movement. Every GM in the league will tell you that.


Okay, Homer! I'm sure that really happened. Like Hines Ward went back in time to stop the JFK assassination. He blocked all three bullets with his smile. JFK's head exploded out of sure amazement. That really happened too.

So it's better to go with an unproven player over a proven commodity? See you keep saying a 30 year old guard is old. 2007 Pro Bowl. Alan Faneca(30), Will Shields(35), Brian Waters(30), Steve Hutchinson(29), Larry Allen(35), Ruben Brown(35).

Again, Faneca has five good years left.

If the Steelers couldve gotten a 1st for Faneca, he wouldve been out the door along time ago.

Faneca was a first round pick. It just took him three years to become the pro bowl player he is today. And if we had the money I would be all for signing him to a long-term deal. But we are cash strapped. But no way you can let him leave for anything less than a top 45 pick. We'll get a 90 something pick if we let him leave next year and have one more year of his service.

[draftguru151]

Using the pro bowl argument for OL isn't very good because the same guys go every year. Shields and Allen were average at best, Brown was good and Hutch had a down year for his talent. I'd give up a first for Shawn Andrews, Chris Snee, Steinbach, Dielman, maybe a few other guys, but not Faneca.

[D-Unit]

Hellooooooo Randy Moss!!!!

[TheGunShow]

Using the pro bowl argument for OL isn't very good because the same guys go every year. Shields and Allen were average at best, Brown was good and Hutch had a down year for his talent. I'd give up a first for Shawn Andrews, Chris Snee, Steinbach, Dielman, maybe a few other guys, but not Faneca.

Just say no. Just say no. Crack is very bad. Oh, how many Pro Bowls do Snee, Andrews, Steinbach, Dielman have? Oh, that's right Pro Bowls don't count for anything. They give those to the crappy players. Mmmmm Hmmmm. Good intelligent argument!

[bigbluedefense]

Okay, Homer! I'm sure that really happened. Like Hines Ward went back in time to stop the JFK assassination. He blocked all three bullets with his smile. JFK's head exploded out of sure amazement. That really happened too.

So it's better to go with an unproven player over a proven commodity? See you keep saying a 30 year old guard is old. 2007 Pro Bowl. Alan Faneca(30), Will Shields(35), Brian Waters(30), Steve Hutchinson(29), Larry Allen(35), Ruben Brown(35).

Again, Faneca has five good years left.



Faneca was a first round pick. It just took him three years to become the pro bowl player he is today. And if we had the money I would be all for signing him to a long-term deal. But we are cash strapped. But no way you can let him leave for anything less than a top 45 pick. We'll get a 90 something pick if we let him leave next year and have one more year of his service.

Steeler homers could get real friggin annoying sometimes

[frogstomp]

Steeler homers could get real friggin annoying sometimes

Homers in general.

This is enough, there is no way Faneca gets a first, unless someone is forced to trade at gunpoint. He is simply not worth it.

Also, the older you get, the easier it will be to get injured. To say over and over that he has at least 5 great years left is crazy. I say you could realistically hope for 3, and anything after that is bonus (assuming he doesn't retire).

[TheGunShow]

Steeler homers could get real friggin annoying sometimes

Yeah, can you tell me about the time LT broke the land speed record on a bicycle that was missing its chain and the back tire.

[bigbluedefense]

Yeah, can you tell me about the time LT broke the land speed record on a bicycle that was missing its chain and the back tire.

You know, it would not surprise me at all if you looked like the guy in your sig.

And by the way, Im sure LT probably could do that. Didn't you hear? He was a manimal.

He also had the energy to end world hunger, but he used that energy pursuing other recreational activities such as smoking crack.

[draftguru151]

Just say no. Just say no. Crack is very bad. Oh, how many Pro Bowls do Snee, Andrews, Steinbach, Dielman have? Oh, that's right Pro Bowls don't count for anything. They give those to the crappy players. Mmmmm Hmmmm. Good intelligent argument!

You can take Shields, Allen and Faneca, I'll take Andrews Snee and Steinbach. Call me crazy. But I like guys who are still good apposed to being good a few years ago.

[Shiver]

You can take Shields, Allen and Faneca, I'll take Andrews Snee and Steinbach. Call me crazy. But I like guys who are still good apposed to being good a few years ago.

Replace Steinbach, with Logan Mankins, and I would be in complete agreement with you.

[America]

Word Mankins is a beast, I was surprised that he didn't go to the Pro Bowl this year.

[MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)]

Word Mankins is a beast, I was surprised that he didn't go to the Pro Bowl this year.



The media needs everyone on that team to suck so Tom Brady can do it all.

[steelernation77]

Steeler homers could get real friggin annoying sometimes

Please you of all people should NEVER call anyone a homer.

That being said, I don't think Faneca will get a 1st round pick no matter if he is worth one or not.

[skinzzfan25]

The Redskins are still kinda looking for a guard, but I think his price tag would be too much. We're more concerned on the defensive side of the ball and locking up Cooley for next year.

[Stash]

IMO 30 is not that old for an offensive lineman. Their skills don't really deteriorate like some of the other skill positions so they can play a lot longer barring injury. 1st rounder, no way. 2nd rounder, possible. 3rd rounder and a mediocre player sounds like a better fit.

[niel89]

Faneca= 2 1st rounders+ a bad of chips!!!! he still could have 10 good years left


realisticly he has 3 more good years. a lot of probowls are based on reputation for linemen. i

[moc182]

I think he's worth a 2nd, best guard in the league by a mile in my opinion.

[bigbluedefense]

Please you of all people should NEVER call anyone a homer.

That being said, I don't think Faneca will get a 1st round pick no matter if he is worth one or not.

Am I that big of a homer? Maybe I should throw 1968 Giants > 1968 Steelers in my sig too.

[TheGunShow]

Anyone that says Faneca is worth less than a second is ********. Plain and simple. If the Steelers just allow him to play out his contract and leave for free agency the likely seven straight pro bowl OG Alan Faneca will blow any deal of any guard ever out of the water. Will make Hutchinson look like he's playing for peanuts. And the Steelers will EASILY get a third round pick for compensation. So why would they take a third for him when they could get one more year of PRO BOWL talent and then get their third round pick? Nope. If they would trade him they will not take less than fair market value. I say the bears first. Or the Cards second and switching third round picks and a 5th. Or the Seahawks second and next years third round picks. That's about where he is worth.

[crazyisme]

BWAHAHAHAHAHA! He's made SIX straight pro bowls! He's worth a first plus another first day pick based on games played and pro bowl performance next year. The Bears are in need of a OG. Maybe their first or Mark Anderson and a conditional pick next year.

A 4th? Really! Would you of traded Will Shields when he was 30 for a 4th?


what a great example of a fan completely overvaluing his own player

a first AND another first day pick, now THATS the real joke, consider your self lucky to get a first day pick for a 30 year old OG

[frogstomp]

Anyone that says Faneca is worth less than a second is ********. Plain and simple. If the Steelers just allow him to play out his contract and leave for free agency the likely seven straight pro bowl OG Alan Faneca will blow any deal of any guard ever out of the water. Will make Hutchinson look like he's playing for peanuts. And the Steelers will EASILY get a third round pick for compensation. So why would they take a third for him when they could get one more year of PRO BOWL talent and then get their third round pick? Nope. If they would trade him they will not take less than fair market value. I say the bears first. Or the Cards second and switching third round picks and a 5th. Or the Seahawks second and next years third round picks. That's about where he is worth.

At least you've backed off your "FIRST ROUNDER" bull.

[TheGunShow]

I never backed off the Bears would be a fair value for their first! Anything less than that we'd need a lot more to get value back.

[TheGunShow]

You know you guys are right. I think the Steelers should trade their 4th round pick and get Steve Hutchinson. If Faneca wants to leave let him it will only cost us a 4th to get a replacement.

[frogstomp]

I never backed off the Bears would be a fair value for their first! Anything less than that we'd need a lot more to get value back.

A 30 year old guard will not get a first round pick in a draft this filled with OG talent. Chances are he wouldn't get first round value in any other draft. He may get second if you find a "win now" team with crappy OG's, but otherwise, take the third.

[TheGunShow]

A 30 year old guard will not get a first round pick in a draft this filled with OG talent. Chances are he wouldn't get first round value in any other draft. He may get second if you find a "win now" team with crappy OG's, but otherwise, take the third.

WE'D GET A THIRD IN COMPENSATION FROM THE LEAGUE!!!

[draftguru151]

He will not get a 7 year $50+ when he is 31 years old. I love Faneca, he is the best OG in football, but he is 30 years old.

[TheGunShow]

Yes, he will!

[MP123]

He will not get a 7 year $50+ when he is 31 years old. I love Faneca, he is the best OG in football, but he is 30 years old.

Exactly. (10 characters)

[Smooth Criminal]

They won't trade Faneca. The Steelers will either resign him this offseason or let him play out his contract and let him go.

[TheGunShow]

Exactly. (10 characters)

Yes, he will! Derrick Dockery, Eric Steinbach, Kris Dielman and Leonard Davis have yet to make a SINGLE pro bowl and look at their contracts! Oh, he's going to be 31 in 2008 so he won't?!? Yeah, because he'd only has atleast four more years of pro bowl skills left in the tank. Anyone with a brain would want a six time pro bowler over someone who may never even play good enough to make ONE.

This is so simple it just blows my mind that someone is so obtuse that they can't grasp it. Here you go. I'll explain it like I do when talking to a four year old.

6 Pro Bowls = Good
0 Pro Bowls = Not Good

[MP123]

Yes, he will! Derrick Dockery, Eric Steinbach, Kris Dielman and Leonard Davis have yet to make a SINGLE pro bowl and look at their contracts! Oh, he's going to be 31 in 2008 so he won't?!? Yeah, because he'd only has atleast four more years of pro bowl skills left in the tank. Anyone with a brain would want a six time pro bowler over someone who may never even play good enough to make ONE.

This is so simple it just blows my mind that someone is so obtuse that they can't grasp it. Here you go. I'll explain it like I do when talking to a four year old.

6 Pro Bowls = Good
0 Pro Bowls = Not Good

Of course somebody will want him. But, I'm gonna say this now, he will not get $50 million dollars. And yes, the reason he'll be 31 is why. He'll get a multi-year deal, but not anything near 7 years and $50 million.

[draftguru151]

Yes, he will! Derrick Dockery, Eric Steinbach, Kris Dielman and Leonard Davis have yet to make a SINGLE pro bowl and look at their contracts! Oh, he's going to be 31 in 2008 so he won't?!? Yeah, because he'd only has atleast four more years of pro bowl skills left in the tank. Anyone with a brain would want a six time pro bowler over someone who may never even play good enough to make ONE.

This is so simple it just blows my mind that someone is so obtuse that they can't grasp it. Here you go. I'll explain it like I do when talking to a four year old.

6 Pro Bowls = Good
0 Pro Bowls = Not Good

Would you rather have him for the rest of his career or Shawn Andrews?

[MP123]

Would you rather have him for the rest of his career or Shawn Andrews?

I'll take Shawn Andrews over Alan Faneca anyday.

[Craigo]

He's the best player on that offence. They'd be stupid to get rid of him. Their offence wouldn't function without him.

Whoever said hes the best gaurd in the NFL is dead on. I think he's still worth a late first round pick.

[Craigo]

I'll take Shawn Andrews over Alan Faneca anyday.

Well its a good thing you arent an NFL GM. Matt Millen wouldnt even take that trade. Good gaurds last till their at least 36-37.

[MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)]

Hells no I wouldn't give a 1st up for him. Guards are the least important part of an O-Line. As long as you have two good tackles, you can get by with average guards. Look at the Colts. Sure, a great guard helps, but I would never throw tackle money at a guard. I would only trade a first for a young franchise left tackle. I'd give up a second rounder if my guards aren't even average, but I'm still picking late, but any other situation, a third.

[wogitalia]

I wouldnt mind the Vikes giving up a 3rd for him, or some form of pick swap, say 2nd and 4th, to get him. That would be 4/5th of a line. That would be the 2 best OG's in the league and one of the top Cs and a good LT. It would be the foundation of the offense for about 5 years.

Cardinals makes the most sense though, they should still have capspace, they have the franchise QB, they have the WRs, they have the RB and they having nothing on the line. Faneca would be a good start, not mention the whole Whisenhunt thing.

[Iamcanadian]

Of course somebody will want him. But, I'm gonna say this now, he will not get $50 million dollars. And yes, the reason he'll be 31 is why. He'll get a multi-year deal, but not anything near 7 years and $50 million.

NFL contracts are only guaranteed for about 3 years and most of the stated money is backloaded and the player never sees it. He will easily command 7 years and 50 million but he'll only receive about 19 million of it.
teams had better get used to holdouts because after the money paid to FA's this offseason, there are going to be a lot of angry veterans looking for improved contracts come training camp. Teams that have signed a lot of FA's may find team chemistry a real serious problem when a veteran is playing beside that FA who is making twice what he is being paid. The signings of FA could really backfire on a lot of teams who don't have the money to satisfy their current veterans. It could get real ugly.

[TheGunShow]

I'll take Shawn Andrews over Alan Faneca anyday.

You are just showing your ignorance. Shawn Andrews has done what? Been injured one whole season and played good one season. I would take a known commodity in a Pro Bowl performance EVERY year over Shawn Andrews who has already shown he is injury proned. Oh, wait because Faneca is thirty he is more likely to be injured. Even though he has started every game over the last five years.

He's the best player on that offence. They'd be stupid to get rid of him. Their offence wouldn't function without him.

Whoever said hes the best gaurd in the NFL is dead on. I think he's still worth a late first round pick.

Exactly. So much of the Steelers running game depends on Faneca being able to pull and get to the second level to spring the back. Just look at Willie Parkers Super Bowl record TD run. Who sprung him!

Well its a good thing you arent an NFL GM. Matt Millen wouldnt even take that trade. Good gaurds last till their at least 36-37.

Don't try to tell him this. You can show all the pro bowl guards were 30+ except for Hutchinson who is 29 and he'll tell you how Pro Bowls don't mean anything. Bwahahahaha. Yeah, the worst players in the league get to go to the pro bowl. He thinks guards are like RB's and once they hit thirty they are finished!

Hells no I wouldn't give a 1st up for him. Guards are the least important part of an O-Line. As long as you have two good tackles, you can get by with average guards. Look at the Colts. Sure, a great guard helps, but I would never throw tackle money at a guard. I would only trade a first for a young franchise left tackle. I'd give up a second rounder if my guards aren't even average, but I'm still picking late, but any other situation, a third.

Faneca played LT in 2003 and still made the pro bowl. He was the only bright spot on the o-line that season.

I wouldnt mind the Vikes giving up a 3rd for him, or some form of pick swap, say 2nd and 4th, to get him. That would be 4/5th of a line. That would be the 2 best OG's in the league and one of the top Cs and a good LT. It would be the foundation of the offense for about 5 years.

Cardinals makes the most sense though, they should still have capspace, they have the franchise QB, they have the WRs, they have the RB and they having nothing on the line. Faneca would be a good start, not mention the whole Whisenhunt thing.

No way does he leave via a third. No chance. If they traded to the Vikes they'd need their second, third, and a pick next year. It doesn't make any sense to trade him for a third when the Steelers could just let him play out his contract and still get a third!

NFL contracts are only guaranteed for about 3 years and most of the stated money is backloaded and the player never sees it. He will easily command 7 years and 50 million but he'll only receive about 19 million of it.
teams had better get used to holdouts because after the money paid to FA's this offseason, there are going to be a lot of angry veterans looking for improved contracts come training camp. Teams that have signed a lot of FA's may find team chemistry a real serious problem when a veteran is playing beside that FA who is making twice what he is being paid. The signings of FA could really backfire on a lot of teams who don't have the money to satisfy their current veterans. It could get real ugly.

Yeah, I'm not saying he'll see the entire contract. But he has five good years left before his play falls off. So every team not just a win now team would be interested. Every team next year would be on a 4 year or less plan for the Super Bowl I doubt anyone builds for five years down the road because a coach only has 2-3 years to produce.

That being said with all the money thrown and second tier OG's like Dockery, Davis, Dielman and Steinbach when a true Pro Bowl caliber guard would hit the market with all the cap room teams have and still should have next year his deal would blow theirs out of the water! I think the only team that has a chance to sign him to a seven year 50 million dollar deal is the Steelers. And that's just because he probably would like to stay. Any other team would need to show him the money!

[MP123]

You are just showing your ignorance. Shawn Andrews has done what? Been injured one whole season and played good one season. I would take a known commodity in a Pro Bowl performance EVERY year over Shawn Andrews who has already shown he is injury proned. Oh, wait because Faneca is thirty he is more likely to be injured. Even though he has started every game over the last five years.



Exactly. So much of the Steelers running game depends on Faneca being able to pull and get to the second level to spring the back. Just look at Willie Parkers Super Bowl record TD run. Who sprung him!



Don't try to tell him this. You can show all the pro bowl guards were 30+ except for Hutchinson who is 29 and he'll tell you how Pro Bowls don't mean anything. Bwahahahaha. Yeah, the worst players in the league get to go to the pro bowl. He thinks guards are like RB's and once they hit thirty they are finished!



Faneca played LT in 2003 and still made the pro bowl. He was the only bright spot on the o-line that season.



No way does he leave via a third. No chance. If they traded to the Vikes they'd need their second, third, and a pick next year. It doesn't make any sense to trade him for a third when the Steelers could just let him play out his contract and still get a third!



Yeah, I'm not saying he'll see the entire contract. But he has five good years left before his play falls off. So every team not just a win now team would be interested. Every team next year would be on a 4 year or less plan for the Super Bowl I doubt anyone builds for five years down the road because a coach only has 2-3 years to produce.

That being said with all the money thrown and second tier OG's like Dockery, Davis, Dielman and Steinbach when a true Pro Bowl caliber guard would hit the market with all the cap room teams have and still should have next year his deal would blow theirs out of the water! I think the only team that has a chance to sign him to a seven year 50 million dollar deal is the Steelers. And that's just because he probably would like to stay. Any other team would need to show him the money!

When he wants $50 million, I'm sure the Steelers are gonna say goodbye. And btw, that's why they have something called the draft. Guards aren't hard to replace.

[TheGunShow]

When he wants $50 million, I'm sure the Steelers are gonna say goodbye. And btw, that's why they have something called the draft. Guards aren't hard to replace.

The Steelers have NO cap room. And after signing Mahen they probably don't even have enough to sign their draft picks. That would be the only reason he leaves. And if he does leave he WILL get a $50 PLUS million dollar deal.

Yeah, there's a reason why we have to draft. It is to replace guards. And tackles, and centers, and quarterbacks, and running backs, and tight ends, and wide receivers, and line backers, and defensive ends, and cornerbacks, and safeties, and defensive tackles, and full backs! Not just guards!

[bigbluedefense]

Now I know why Shiver gets annoyed with Steeler homers.

(note: Im not talking about all steeler fans, just the homers)

[MP123]

The Steelers have NO cap room. And after signing Mahen they probably don't even have enough to sign their draft picks. That would be the only reason he leaves. And if he does leave he WILL get a $50 PLUS million dollar deal.

Yeah, there's a reason why we have to draft. It is to replace guards. And tackles, and centers, and quarterbacks, and running backs, and tight ends, and wide receivers, and line backers, and defensive ends, and cornerbacks, and safeties, and defensive tackles, and full backs! Not just guards!

Your argument is lame. Now you say that the draft is to replace guards. So, Faneca must be replacable then.

[TheGunShow]

Now I know why Shiver gets annoyed with Steeler homers.

(note: Im not talking about all steeler fans, just the homers)

Yeah, tell me again how LT counted to infinity... twice.

Fact- Alan Faneca is a six time pro bowler
Fact- Alan Faneca is in the prime of his career
Fact- Steinbach, Dielman, Dockery, and Davis aren't as good as Faneca
Fact- Steinbach, Dielman, Dockery, and Davis all got deals paying them about seven million a year

Now would it be safe to conclude with all these facts that if they are lesser players than Faneca and are making seven million a season that Faneca should get a contract that pays him more?

Your argument is lame. Now you say that the draft is to replace guards. So, Faneca must be replacable then.

My argument is lame? Your argument was guards can be replaced in drafts. Well the draft is to replace ALL POSITIONS!!!! This is NFL draft 101... should you even be on this message board if you don't know that?

[bigbluedefense]

Yeah, tell me again how LT counted to infinity... twice.

Fact- Alan Faneca is a six time pro bowler
Fact- Alan Faneca is in the prime of his career
Fact- Steinbach, Dielman, Dockery, and Davis aren't as good as Faneca
Fact- Steinbach, Dielman, Dockery, and Davis all got deals paying them about seven million a year

Now would it be safe to conclude with all these facts that if they are lesser players than Faneca and are making seven million a season that Faneca should get a contract that pays him more?



My argument is lame? Your argument was guards can be replaced in drafts. Well the draft is to replace ALL POSITIONS!!!! This is NFL draft 101... should you even be on this message board if you don't know that?


It was amazing. He had this focused look like he wasn't gonna be denied. He kept going and going, we didn't think it was possible, but then he finished and stared us all down. We were shocked. But wait, theres more.

He did it again. By the time he finished the 2nd time, the elderly in the room passed out in disbelief. It was an amazing sight to see I tell ya.

[TheGunShow]

Okay, I'll try to explain this for the cognitively delayed. So to the people who believe a Pro Bowl guard isn't worth a first round pick. Alan Faneca was a first round pick. When they picked him the Steelers had no idea he would become a pro bowler. They hoped but as everyone knows the draft is not certain. So why would you trade a proven commodity that was a first round pick for a third when you will get a third for Compensatory picks anyways?

Does that make sense?

[bigbluedefense]

Okay, I'll try to explain this for the cognitively delayed. So to the people who believe a Pro Bowl guard isn't worth a first round pick. Alan Faneca was a first round pick. When they picked him the Steelers had no idea he would become a pro bowler. They hoped but as everyone knows the draft is not certain. So why would you trade a proven commodity that was a first round pick for a third when you will get a third for Compensatory picks anyways?

Does that make sense?

Bottom line is this: Faneca is 30, that guard you draft is 22. I simply don't understnad why its so hard for you to comprehend that NFL players' skills diminish at the age of 30.

And at that age, health isn't guaranteed either. No one is gonna give up a 1st for a 30 year old guard. Just wait and see. I hope you like crow, because youre gonna eat alot of it when it doesn't happen.

[TheGunShow]

It was amazing. He had this focused look like he wasn't gonna be denied. He kept going and going, we didn't think it was possible, but then he finished and stared us all down. We were shocked. But wait, theres more.

He did it again. By the time he finished the 2nd time, the elderly in the room passed out in disbelief. It was an amazing sight to see I tell ya.

Mmmmm Hmmmm. While you may be able to kill 2 birds with one stone, LT can kill 475.

[bigbluedefense]

Mmmmm Hmmmm. While you may be able to kill 2 birds with one stone, LT can kill 475.

Yup :cool:

Moses didn't split the sea either. LT just sacked it real hard, and the water went away.

[TheGunShow]

Bottom line is this: Faneca is 30, that guard you draft is 22. I simply don't understnad why its so hard for you to comprehend that NFL players' skills diminish at the age of 30.

And at that age, health isn't guaranteed either. No one is gonna give up a 1st for a 30 year old guard. Just wait and see. I hope you like crow, because youre gonna eat alot of it when it doesn't happen.

Crackhead he is NOT repeat NOT a running back! O-linemen peak in their 30's. Look at Will Shields, Brian Waters, Larry Allen, Ruben Brown, Marr Birk, Jeff Saturday, Walter Jones, Flozell Adams, Tarik Glenn, Jonathan Ogden, Willie Anderson, ect...

All pro bowlers all in their 30's!

[bigbluedefense]

Crackhead he is NOT repeat NOT a running back! O-linemen peak in their 30's. Look at Will Shields, Brian Waters, Larry Allen, Ruben Brown, Marr Birk, Jeff Saturday, Walter Jones, Flozell Adams, Tarik Glenn, Jonathan Ogden, Willie Anderson, ect...

All pro bowlers all in their 30's!

Your football knowledge is very amateur. Those players were NOT in their primes when they were 30. They simply got recognition for their achievements at that age. It usually takes seniority for olinemen to make it to the pro bowl. There were several OGs this year that got snubbed even though they were clearly better. But seniority rules in the NFL when it comes to olinemen in the PB.

And if you think that PBs dictate who's good and who's not, then this topic isn't even worth debating with you. Because by that premise, clearly, Roy Williams must be a top 3 SS in the NFL right? :rolleyes:

[MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)]

This thread is a great exercise in self restraint. anywho, listen. When you watch a game, on 95% of plays, nobody notices the O-Line unless they watch them, or there's a screwup. This leads to many offensive linemen making the pro bowl based off of reputation rather than their actual play. This also leads to a lack of young offensive linemen in the Pro Bowl, even if they deserve it over veterans. Yes, Faneca is one of the best guards in the NFL, and yes, he might have 5 good years left. But why not draft a guy with THIRTEEN good years left? Bottom line is NO TEAM will give up a first rounder for him. NOT ONE. So stop hoping.

And stop bringing up LT whenever BBD responds to your post. BBD never even said half this stuff and it's VERY obvious you're using it as a defense mechanism because you can't argue with him.

[TheGunShow]

Your football knowledge is very amateur. Those players were NOT in their primes when they were 30. They simply got recognition for their achievements at that age. It usually takes seniority for olinemen to make it to the pro bowl. There were several OGs this year that got snubbed even though they were clearly better. But seniority rules in the NFL when it comes to olinemen in the PB.

And if you think that PBs dictate who's good and who's not, then this topic isn't even worth debating with you. Because by that premise, clearly, Roy Williams must be a top 3 SS in the NFL right? :rolleyes:

Cleary they just hand those to undeserving players! What was I thinking!

Yeah, you must be right. The Steelers should just cut Faneca. We can trade our third round pick and get Steve Hutchinson and then trade our 4th round pick and get Brian Waters. They both are over the hill and only worth 3rd or 4th round picks!

[TheGunShow]

This thread is a great exercise in self restraint. anywho, listen. When you watch a game, on 95% of plays, nobody notices the O-Line unless they watch them, or there's a screwup. This leads to many offensive linemen making the pro bowl based off of reputation rather than their actual play. This also leads to a lack of young offensive linemen in the Pro Bowl, even if they deserve it over veterans. Yes, Faneca is one of the best guards in the NFL, and yes, he might have 5 good years left. But why not draft a guy with THIRTEEN good years left? Bottom line is NO TEAM will give up a first rounder for him. NOT ONE. So stop hoping.

1/3 fans 1/3 media 1/3 coaches and players! The media and coaches and players have the best idea out of anyone who are the best players on the field! THEY VOTED FOR FANECA SIX STRAIGHT TIMES!

And why not draft a player that on average has 2 1/2 years in the league! You draft a player he could be a bust. Quite frankly ben Grubbs and Justin Blalock probably won't ever be the type of player that Faneca, Shields, or Hutchinson are. That's the odds! And even if you draft Ben Grubbs and he becomes a pro bowler, who is to say after four or five years when his contract is up that he doesn't leave via free agency? NO team is looking 13 years down the road!

And stop bringing up LT whenever BBD responds to your post. BBD never even said half this stuff and it's VERY obvious you're using it as a defense mechanism because you can't argue with him.

Did I hurt your girlfriends feelings?

Do you notice when I use those ridiculous lines? When he starts calling people homers. He said and still believes that LT can stare a grown man down and make him cry! HE IS THE ULTIMATE HOMER!

[The Unseen]

HE IS THE ULTIMATE HOMER!

Oh, the irony...

[Phrost]

Bring him to the Bucs. He is a perennial pro bowler that should hold down the left side when Davin Joesph will hold down the right.

[bigbluedefense]

1/3 fans 1/3 media 1/3 coaches and players! The media and coaches and players have the best idea out of anyone who are the best players on the field! THEY VOTED FOR FANECA SIX STRAIGHT TIMES!

And why not draft a player that on average has 2 1/2 years in the league! You draft a player he could be a bust. Quite frankly ben Grubbs and Justin Blalock probably won't ever be the type of player that Faneca, Shields, or Hutchinson are. That's the odds! And even if you draft Ben Grubbs and he becomes a pro bowler, who is to say after four or five years when his contract is up that he doesn't leave via free agency? NO team is looking 13 years down the road!


Did I hurt your girlfriends feelings?

Do you notice when I use those ridiculous lines? When he starts calling people homers. He said and still believes that LT can stare a grown man down and make him cry! HE IS THE ULTIMATE HOMER!

I didn't say he cried, don't exaggerate what I said. I stated that he backed down after trying to walk all tough. I don't get what was so far fetched about it. Carl Banks discussed it once on TV. If you have any recollection of LT, you wouldn't think this is so absurd.

But then again, youre probably a 12 year old kid who just learned how to use the internet, so I wouldn't be surprised.

[TheGunShow]

Oh, the irony...

I use facts. Fact Alan Faneca is a six straight time pro bowler. Alan Faneca is in the prime of his career. Steinbach, Dielman, Dockery, and Davis aren't as good as Faneca. Steinbach, Dielman, Dockery, and Davis all got deals paying them about seven million a year.

Using those facts wouldn't it be an obvious conclusion that Faneca is worth more than those players?

[MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)]

Did I hurt your girlfriends feelings?

Do you notice when I use those ridiculous lines? When he starts calling people homers. He said and still believes that LT can stare a grown man down and make him cry! HE IS THE ULTIMATE HOMER!

Ha. There you go with those defense mechanisms again.

[TheGunShow]

I didn't say he cried, don't exaggerate what I said. I stated that he backed down after trying to walk all tough. I don't get what was so far fetched about it. Carl Banks discussed it once on TV. If you have any recollection of LT, you wouldn't think this is so absurd.

But then again, youre probably a 12 year old kid who just learned how to use the internet, so I wouldn't be surprised.

Theres a story that on media day in 86, LT and Tom Jackson both walked opposite ways in the hallway. And back then, Tom Jackson was a big bad dude, he wasn't the teddy bear Tom Jackson you see today.

Well, LT just looked at him hard, and apparantly Jackson was shook. LT just kept staring at him while Jackson walked away intimidated. Carl Banks spoke about it once.

They said in practice, LT would give that crazy stare, and everyone would just listen to him. No one would F with him, not even the linemen.

He's a grown man! Unless Tom Jackson has a vagina between his legs this story smells of BS! And anyone dumb enough to believe it is ********!

Ha. There you go with those defense mechanisms again.

You're an idiot. You can try to say this is a defense mechanism. But no you truely are an idiot. So quit butting your head into something you know nothing about!

[MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)]

I'll try to say this so you can understand.

Alan Faneca 30. Alan Faneca no play extremely valuable position. Alan Faneca being shopped by Steelers. If he not being shopped, Steelers might get high pick. But he is shopped, so value goes down.

[MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)]

He's a grown man! Unless Tom Jackson has a vagina between his legs this story smells of BS! And anyone dumb enough to believe it is ********!

Go call your friend in your sig and go back to the time that happened. I want you to go try to intimidate Lawrence Taylor. We'll see if you walk away smiling.

[TheGunShow]

I'll try to say this so you can understand.

Alan Faneca 30. Alan Faneca no play extremely valuable position. Alan Faneca being shopped by Steelers. If he not being shopped, Steelers might get high pick. But he is shopped, so value goes down.

He plays a position where average players are getting paid seven million dollars a year. That rivals WR and RB pay.

A back-up QB got traded for two second round picks and a third. A back-up. Now I understand OG isn't the prettiest position on the team. But it doesn' t mean it isn't valueable. As seen by the contracts that have been handed out. But unless a team like the Bears or Cardinals who both really need an OG don't come up with a top 45 pick and another first day pick he'll stay a Steeler for 2007. Now in 2008 he might leave via free agency. But we'll still end up with a third round pick from the league and have his services for one more year.

Go call your friend in your sig and go back to the time that happened. I want you to go try to intimidate Lawrence Taylor. We'll see if you walk away smiling.

I probably wouldn't be able to intimidate Lawrence Taylor. And he wouldn't intimidate me. And if wouldn't be able to intimidate me I highly doubt he'd be able to intimidate Tom Jackson!

So I'm calling bullsh!t on that story!

[draftguru151]

You would crap yourself if LT got in your face.

[MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)]

You would crap yourself if LT got in your face.

99% of the members of this board would.

[CC.SD]

99% of the members of this board would.

I wouldn't. I would probably offer him some coke and we'd be cool.

[stephenson86]

Crackhead he is NOT repeat NOT a running back! O-linemen peak in their 30's. Look at Will Shields, Brian Waters, Larry Allen, Ruben Brown, Marr Birk, Jeff Saturday, Walter Jones, Flozell Adams, Tarik Glenn, Jonathan Ogden, Willie Anderson, ect...

All pro bowlers all in their 30's!

your a plank, an utter plank. seriously u have the worst football knowledge on this forum ever.

faneca is 30
he WILL be losing mobility
he WILL get injured easier
he WILL be slower
he WILL never be as good as he was when he was 27
he WILL get a big contract because of a money happy GM

you WONT get a first rounder for him

its quite simple really, fact is hes over the hill in the decline of his career, sure he has gone to the pro bowl 6 times, will shields has gone 11/12 times in his career and there is no way hes still one of the top 4 guards in the AFC, its his reputation

you really are an absolute idiot i cant actually believe the stuff uve said this thread, im ashamed u are allowed to post

[crazyisme]

hey gun show, the bottom line is you arent going to get a kings ransom in the draft for a freaking 30 year old OG, especially if hes threatening to hold out...

theres just no way thats going to happen, if the Steelers trade him, you will probably get a first day pick, but no WAY would the steelers get multiple first day picks this year and next year and a freaking player

feneca is a great OG, true, but great OG's dont command that much value when teams can draft solid reliable good OG's in the 2nd or 3rd round anway...i mean look at this year...Grubbs/Blalock/Beekman/Ramirez...why would a team give the Steelers 3 picks and a player for an OG when they could draft one thats 7 years younger, a hell of a lot cheaper, and has the potential to be a great OG in their own right?

thats what you have to think about, if the steelers are set on trading feneca rather than paying him, the offers that they will see will not resemble any of the ones you have tossed out there...

[MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)]

I wouldn't. I would probably offer him some coke and we'd be cool.


And if you had no coke?

[frogstomp]

WE'D GET A THIRD IN COMPENSATION FROM THE LEAGUE!!!

Maybe.

If he plays like crap, the team doesn't really have to give up anything else. It's called "security".

[mikehop05]

Steeler homers could get real friggin annoying sometimes

please dont group me in with this guy

i dont think any other steeler fan agrees with about anything he says

[MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)]

Thing is, yeah you'd get a third in the league. But an astronomically late third that is untradeable. OR you can trade him for a third rounder, much earlier in the third, and potentially use that to trade up or something. And no, you can't just go out and offer a 4th for whoever you said and a third for Hutchinson. If the Steelers weren't actively shopping him, the only thing that might pry him from them could be a 1st or 2nd rounder. But the Steelers seem to need to dump him, which drives his value down to a third.

EDIT:Actually, you'd need to sign no UFAs if you want a third.

[B-Dawk]

not to try and back this guy up or anything but 30 is not over the hill for a G, a RB yes, but not a guard

[excanuck]

If the Steelers weren't actively shopping him, the only thing that might pry him from them could be a 1st or 2nd rounder. But the Steelers seem to need to dump him, which drives his value down to a third.

but if acouple teams were in a bidding war for him then the value would not go down

[bigbluedefense]

please dont group me in with this guy

i dont think any other steeler fan agrees with about anything he says

Oh I know. Thats why I made it clear I was referring to homers and not real steelers fans.

[TheGunShow]

Thing is, yeah you'd get a third in the league. But an astronomically late third that is untradeable. OR you can trade him for a third rounder, much earlier in the third, and potentially use that to trade up or something. And no, you can't just go out and offer a 4th for whoever you said and a third for Hutchinson. If the Steelers weren't actively shopping him, the only thing that might pry him from them could be a 1st or 2nd rounder. But the Steelers seem to need to dump him, which drives his value down to a third.

EDIT:Actually, you'd need to sign no UFAs if you want a third.

So we'd pick fifteen spots later than if we traded him for a third. Hmmm, yeah I think I'll keep the pro bowler for another season of play for 15 spots in the third.

Oh, so me saying the Steelers trading a third for Steve Hutchinson is stupid because they would need a 1st or 2nd rounder to pry him away but you saying the Steelers trading Faneca for a third isn't? Get your story straight!

The Steelers don't need to dump him. He can hold out if he wants and then come back to play and then the Steelers could tag him next year and the year after and the year after, ect.....

EDIT: Actually we couldn't sign a free agent to a contract similar to the one he'd get!

[MP123]

So we'd pick fifteen spots later than if we traded him for a third. Hmmm, yeah I think I'll keep the pro bowler for another season of play for 15 spots in the third.

Oh, so me saying the Steelers trading a third for Steve Hutchinson is stupid because they would need a 1st or 2nd rounder to pry him away but you saying the Steelers trading Faneca for a third isn't? Get your story straight!

The Steelers don't need to dump him. He can hold out if he wants and then come back to play and then the Steelers could tag him next year and the year after and the year after, ect.....

EDIT: Actually we couldn't sign a free agent to a contract similar to the one he'd get!

I hope your comment about the Steelers tagging him year after year after year was a joke. And also, your last comment is right. Faneca would only get like $15-20 million on the free agent market. Second tier guards will get $50 million.

[TheGunShow]

I hope your comment about the Steelers tagging him year after year after year was a joke. And also, your last comment is right. Faneca would only get like $15-20 million on the free agent market. Second tier guards will get $50 million.

You are r-tarded!

If that's all he wants... WHY IS HE GOING TO HOLD OUT!!!?!?!?! HE MAKES MORE THAN THAT NOW!

[MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)]

So we'd pick fifteen spots later than if we traded him for a third. Hmmm, yeah I think I'll keep the pro bowler for another season of play for 15 spots in the third.

Oh, so me saying the Steelers trading a third for Steve Hutchinson is stupid because they would need a 1st or 2nd rounder to pry him away but you saying the Steelers trading Faneca for a third isn't? Get your story straight!

The Steelers don't need to dump him. He can hold out if he wants and then come back to play and then the Steelers could tag him next year and the year after and the year after, ect.....

EDIT: Actually we couldn't sign a free agent to a contract similar to the one he'd get!

BECAUSE STEVE HUTCHINSON ISNT HOLDING OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WHY CAN'T YOU GET IT THROUGH YOUR SKULL THAT WHEN A PLAYER HOLDS OUT, HIS VALUE GOES WAY DOWN!?!?! Unless of course as someone else said, there is a bidding war, it may drive the price up. Even then, only a very desperate team would offer a second rounder for a guard that is holding out. And yeah, he's not over the hill. But he's on the wrong side of it. And that depreciates value.

[PACKmack]

I have to agree with the gun show. After the 2005 season when the Packers couldn't block my grandma, and my grandman is dead. I would of traded our second and a conditional third round pick next year for Alan Faneca. That would be an early second and another first day pick. If he made the Pro Bowl. And holding out might drop his tradability a little but only for teams with little cap space. I mean did Joey Galloway, Javon Walker Thomas Jones or Deion Branch not hold out and get traded and their teams go a lot back for them. The cards scenario was the most likely. IMHO. A second and conditional third for him. He'd get back with his former OC and offensive line coach.

And the fact you said Steve Hutchinson is worth a 1st or 2nd basically makes you look like a fool when you continue to say Faneca is only worth a third. If you believe guards aren't worth a lot due to their position. That is one thing but when you say one guard is and another of equal or lesser value isn't it makes you look like you are just trying to argue but you have no foundation to argue. And there is no way Faneca signs for less than what Dockery got! His deal should be much higher than any of those guards and yes he might not see year seven of the deal. But Steinbach and Davis probably won't either unless they extend their contract.

[njx9]

javon walker? oh, you mean the guy you gave up for far less than what his value should've been, especially in an extremely weak WR draft? how are you not proving chris's point?

i'm not sure why this is difficult: if a player holds out, the team that wants him has the better end of the bargaining table. this is just not a difficult concept.

[MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)]

And the fact you said Steve Hutchinson is worth a 1st or 2nd basically makes you look like a fool when you continue to say Faneca is only worth a third. If you believe guards aren't worth a lot due to their position. That is one thing but when you say one guard is and another of equal or lesser value isn't it makes you look like you are just trying to argue but you have no foundation to argue. And there is no way Faneca signs for less than what Dockery got! His deal should be much higher than any of those guards and yes he might not see year seven of the deal. But Steinbach and Davis probably won't either unless they extend their contract.

Not reading makes YOU look like a fool. I said it would cost more to get Hutch than Faneca because.. guess what. HUTCHINSON ISNT ON THE FLIPPIN TRADING BLOCK!!! If Faneca wasn't on the block, then yeah, it would take a second, maybe even a first to get him. Which basically means he wouldn't be traded, because almost no GM would give that up for a 30-year old guard.

[TheGunShow]

I have to agree with the gun show. After the 2005 season when the Packers couldn't block my grandma, and my grandman is dead. I would of traded our second and a conditional third round pick next year for Alan Faneca. That would be an early second and another first day pick. If he made the Pro Bowl. And holding out might drop his tradability a little but only for teams with little cap space. I mean did Joey Galloway, Javon Walker Thomas Jones or Deion Branch not hold out and get traded and their teams go a lot back for them. The cards scenario was the most likely. IMHO. A second and conditional third for him. He'd get back with his former OC and offensive line coach.

And the fact you said Steve Hutchinson is worth a 1st or 2nd basically makes you look like a fool when you continue to say Faneca is only worth a third. If you believe guards aren't worth a lot due to their position. That is one thing but when you say one guard is and another of equal or lesser value isn't it makes you look like you are just trying to argue but you have no foundation to argue. And there is no way Faneca signs for less than what Dockery got! His deal should be much higher than any of those guards and yes he might not see year seven of the deal. But Steinbach and Davis probably won't either unless they extend their contract.

Thank you. Good point on the holding out argument. I totally forgot about Deion Branch just held out and the Pats got a crap load for a receiver without a thousand yard season and no pro bowls.

Not reading makes YOU look like a fool. I said it would cost more to get Hutch than Faneca because.. guess what. HUTCHINSON ISNT ON THE FLIPPIN TRADING BLOCK!!! If Faneca wasn't on the block, then yeah, it would take a second, maybe even a first to get him. Which basically means he wouldn't be traded, because almost no GM would give that up for a 30-year old guard.

Neither is Faneca you FLIPPIN crackhead!

[MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)]

Then what the eff is this thread even about?

[MP123]

Then what the eff is this thread even about?

I know. This thread has over 100 posts. It shouldn't even have 50 posts.

[TheGunShow]

The thread said he might threaten to hold out. Nothing about being on the trading block. What I've seen of Faneca he seems to be a straight shooter and even if he wants a new deal will be a Ward type holdout. Doesn't go to voluntary camps and workouts and will be there for training camp.

Someone else wrote maybe the Steelers will trade him and then the moronic rampage of stupidity came with he's not worth more than a 3rd or 4th round pick.