PDA

View Full Version : Consensus Mock, IRC Style


A Perfect Score
03-02-2011, 05:27 PM
Voting Mock that occurred in IRC. Myself, fenikz, tackle and toonster with vidae acting as tiebreaker. Here is what we came up with...

<@APS> 1. Carolina Panthers - Cam Newton, QB, Auburn
<@APS> 2. Denver Broncos - Patrick Peterson, CB, LSU
<@APS> 3. Buffalo Bills -Blaine Gabbert, QB, Missouri
<@APS> 4. Cincinatti Bengals - AJ Green, WR, Georgia
<@APS> 5. Arizona Cardinals - Von Miller, LB, Texas A&M
<@APS> 6. Cleveland Browns - Daquan Bowers, DE, Clemson
<@APS> 7. San Francisco 49ers - Robert Quinn, OLB, North Carolina
<@APS> 8. Tennessee Titans - Marcel Dareus, DT, Alabama
<@APS> 9. Dallas Cowboys - Prince Amukamara, CB, Nebraska
<@APS> 10. Washington Redskins - Julio Jones, WR, Alabama
<@APS> 11. Houston Texans - Nick Fairley, DT, Auburn
<@APS> 12. Minnesota Vikings - Cam Jordan, DE, Cal
<@APS> 13. Detroit Lions - Mark Ingram, RB, Alabama
<@APS> 14. St Louis Rams - Corey Liuget, DT, Illinois
<@APS> 15. Miami Dolphins - Jake Locker, QB, Washington
<@APS> 16. Jacksonville Jaguars - JJ Watt, DE, Wisconsin
<@APS> 17. New England Patriots - Muhammed Wilkerson, DE, Temple
<@APS> 18. San Diego Chargers - Aldon Smith, DE/OLB, Missouri
<@APS> 19. New York Giants - Anthony Castonzo, OT, Boston College
<@APS> 20. Tampa Bay Buccaneers - Tyron Smith, OT, USC
<@APS> 21. Kansas City Chiefs - Phil Taylor, DT, Baylor
<@APS> 22. Indianapolis Colts - Nate Solder, OT, Colorado
<@APS> 23. Philadelphia Eagles - Brandon Harris, CB, Miami
<@APS> 24. New Orleans Saints - Adrian Clayborn, DE, Iowa
<@APS> 25. Seattle Seahawks - Ryan Kerrigan, DE, Purdue
<@APS> 26. Baltimore Ravens - Jimmy Smith, CB, Colorado
<@APS> 27. Atlanta Falcons - Mike Pouncey, OG, Florida
<@APS> 28. New England Patriots - Gabe Carimi, OT, Wisconsin
<@APS> 29. Chicago Bears - Torrey Smith, WR, Maryland
<@APS> 30. New York Jets - Cam Heyward, DE, Ohio State
<@APS> 31. Pittsburgh Steelers - Ben Ijalana, OL, Villanova
<@APS> 32. Green Bay Packers - Martez Wilson, LB, Illinois

Chucky
03-02-2011, 05:38 PM
Tyron Smith is a pretty crappy pick for the Bucs to be honest. Even though it is solid value, Penn is getting paid LT money and played at a probowl level last year at LT. While RT is a slight need(althoug James Lee was decent last year), I imagine the Bucs would want more of a mauler at RT(assuming they resign Joseph). Kerrigan and Clayborn(in that order) would be better picks and fill bigger needs

A Perfect Score
03-02-2011, 05:38 PM
Tyron Smith is a pretty crappy pick for the Bucs to be honest. Even though it is solid value, Penn is getting paid LT money and played at a probowl level last year at LT. While RT is a slight need(althoug James Lee was decent last year), I imagine the Bucs would want more of a mauler at RT(assuming they resign Joseph). Kerrigan and Clayborn(in that order) would be better picks and fill bigger needs

I was the only one who didn't vote for Tyron Smith there!

Chucky
03-02-2011, 05:53 PM
I mean...I could understand the Bucs taking Tyron if there is no value at their positions of need, but with Kerrigan and Clayborn there(especially Kerrigan) I don't see how they pass him up. Last year the Bucs two top needs were DT and WR and Domink took those positions with 4 of their first 5 picks as well as with all of their top 3 picks. Definately seems like a guy who drafts based on need(of course....hes only had a couple drafts so take it for what it is wortha)

ATLDirtyBirds
03-02-2011, 05:56 PM
OG is in no way a first round pick for Atlanta.

A Perfect Score
03-02-2011, 05:57 PM
OG is in no way a first round pick for Atlanta.

See, I voted for Titus Young here as well and was overruled.

ATLDirtyBirds
03-02-2011, 06:00 PM
See, I voted for Titus Young here as well and was overruled.


27 is probably too early, but that'd work. Torrey Smith or Justin Houston there too.

Bengals78
03-02-2011, 06:02 PM
No complaint. I need to get on IRC more.

Damix
03-02-2011, 06:06 PM
I was there and I am going to say I contributed. Let NO ONE tell you otherwise.

BeerBaron
03-02-2011, 06:10 PM
Been a long time since I saw a Bears pick that would make me want to break things, but that certainly would do it.

Smith doesn't really provide anything our current group of WRs does, and unless there is crazy value available, WR takes a major backseat to o-line and DT help, as those are both incredibly weak positions.

Don Vito
03-02-2011, 06:16 PM
Wilkerson and Carimi would be pretty good for the Pats, 17 might be a tad early for Wilkerson though. Aldon Smith at 17 and Cam Heyward at 28 would be good too but I could deal with Wilkerson and Carimi.

RealityCheck
03-02-2011, 06:30 PM
What Don Vito said, I'm OK with this.

TACKLE
03-02-2011, 06:52 PM
Been a long time since I saw a Bears pick that would make me want to break things, but that certainly would do it.

Smith doesn't really provide anything our current group of WRs does, and unless there is crazy value available, WR takes a major backseat to o-line and DT help, as those are both incredibly weak positions.

When has Mike Martz brought in a WR who doesn't fit his system?

BeerBaron
03-02-2011, 06:55 PM
When has Mike Martz brought in a WR who doesn't fit his system?

What? Maybe I didn't make myself clear...

Smith has speed. So do Knox and Hester. He doesn't bring anything that those two don't already give us. I will be quite pissed if we take another speedy, finesse WR with more significant needs on the OL and at DT.

A Perfect Score
03-02-2011, 06:57 PM
What? Maybe I didn't make myself clear...

Smith has speed. So do Knox and Hester. He doesn't bring anything that those two don't already give us. I will be quite pissed if we take another speedy, finesse WR with more significant needs on the OL and at DT.

To be fair, toon is a Bears fan and wanted to give you guys Titus Young. We thought a bigger downfield threat would benefit Cutler more even though he isnt quite the system fit Young would be. Also, he's much better value.

BeerBaron
03-02-2011, 07:01 PM
To be fair, toon is a Bears fan and wanted to give you guys Titus Young. We thought a bigger downfield threat would benefit Cutler more even though he isnt quite the system fit Young would be. Also, he's much better value.

So the guy can get downfield only to turn and see Cutler sacked? No thanks.

Secondly, Jerry Angelo is still our GM. You know how much stock Jerry puts in the WR position? We currently have a 3rd round pick, 5th round pick, and two converted defensive backs at the position.

Furthermore, Jerry has a massive hard on for defensive players. And we still have a defensive minded head coach. Smart money puts that first round pick as a DT, especially with Tommie Harris being cut and Anthony Adam's impending free agency leaving us with only Matt Toeiana and Henry Melton at the position.

With all of that in mind, I will be sincerely shocked if we take a WR in the first round.

descendency
03-02-2011, 07:01 PM
If the Patriots let JJ Watt fall to 16 and don't offer the Jags atleast a 4th to trade spots, I will be mad :(

toonsterwu
03-02-2011, 07:11 PM
I'll jump in real quick on a few things.

Falcons - I pushed for the Mike Pouncey pick, but I could certainly see them go in another direction. If they believe Justin Houston can be a capable pass rusher as a DE, then that makes sense for them, and I admittedly didn't ponder Houston too much. I've got a hard time seeing them go Torrey Smith, but I wouldn't rule it out.

Let's be honest, online IRC mocks, when we near the end, it's sort of, let's get it done. My rationale for the Pouncey pick was that McClure was aging, and Dahl was a FA. Would it be that inconceivable, if they liked Pouncey enough (and I think Pouncey will go in Rd. 1 right now) for them to grab a guy to groom. Off the top, isn't Blalock a FA as well?

Buccaneers - I feel like Kerrigan will be a good, solid pro player, but I'm not sold his value is top 20 worthy, and I only agreed to Kerrigan later due to ... well, some laziness. I like Kerrigan, so don't get me wrong, this isn't a slam on him, but I wonder if he's being overvalued a bit. As for Clayborn, the thought crossed my mind, but does he have the pass rushing ability, even as a strongside end, to get Dominik and Morris to make that move? That's why I went towards Tyron Smith, out of value and the fact that it's not that inconceivable that they could opt to cut ties from Penn in a couple years to save some money.

Bears - I'll defend this pick somewhat, although it wasn't my first choice. First off, OL value was iffy. Are they going to jump on Ijalana? To do that, they have to feel comfortable that Ijalana will be better than Webb or Omiyale next year, and I'm not sold as of now. Not impossible, but I am not sold they go OL UNLESS they believe said player can not only step in now ... but can also be an upgrade. I pondered DT a long time there, but the value was gone. Nevis, much as I like him, in the first, would surprise me. Paea doesn't really fit the need for a 3-technique.

So my first comment, BB, is who at those two positions do you go with? There simply weren't many options the way the mock shook out. My preference is to go DT ... but Nevis or Paea? Not sure I can buy that. Furthermore, there's been more than idle speculation that the Bears may view J'Marcus Webb as their LT of the future. I am worried about that, in all honesty, as I'm not sure I see it, but there's been chatter there.

As for WR, well, let's face it, barring a surprise, the Bears aren't going to address that in FA. What was the wide receiving core missing this year? Don't focus just on the speed - they were missing a big downfield threat, the role that Aromashodu was supposed to fill. I can definitely see them drafting a bigger, downfield target to open things up underneath. There is a school of thought that Knox is better served going deep, as his inability to run solid underneath routes caused the QB enough problems this year, but it wouldn't address the need for a jump ball type target.

That said, it's the rare situation where Martz agrees to a WR that doesn't fit his desire for guys that are quick in and out of cuts, and hence why my first WR thought actually went to Titus Young, and Randall Cobb also crossed my mind.

Ideally, the Bears would find a way to move out, if the draft fell this way.

______

I'm not saying these picks are perfect, btw, as I can see the arguments against, and there were some I disagreed with (starting with the first one), but I think we gave enough thought to the picks that there is some level of defense for them.

toonsterwu
03-02-2011, 07:12 PM
So the guy can get downfield only to turn and see Cutler sacked? No thanks.

Secondly, Jerry Angelo is still our GM. You know how much stock Jerry puts in the WR position? We currently have a 3rd round pick, 5th round pick, and two converted defensive backs at the position.

Furthermore, Jerry has a massive hard on for defensive players. And we still have a defensive minded head coach. Smart money puts that first round pick as a DT, especially with Tommie Harris being cut and Anthony Adam's impending free agency leaving us with only Matt Toeiana and Henry Melton at the position.

With all of that in mind, I will be sincerely shocked if we take a WR in the first round.

Read my comment below - which OT or DT are you taking? Heck, which OG? Watkins? Don't see the Bears doing that. Wisnewski? Not sold on that either.

One more comment - The reason the Bears didn't pursue a WR early the last few years is that they believed that Hester was going to be that guy, but they came to the conclusion this year that wasn't going to happen.

toonsterwu
03-02-2011, 07:14 PM
If the Patriots let JJ Watt fall to 16 and don't offer the Jags atleast a 4th to trade spots, I will be mad :(

We didn't do trades, but I would point out one thing - JJ Watt is very similar to Jared Odrick last year. He's a better athlete, but BB is very specific about his DL guys, and while I LOVE Watt (and you can ask folks on IRC how much I love Watt), I can see BB wondering if Watt is capable of being the classic "hold the corner" 2-gap 5-technique that he prefers.

I can see Watt going there, but it also wouldn't surprise me if BB decided that he didn't love the option of Watt in the mid-first.

BeerBaron
03-02-2011, 07:19 PM
What would be wrong with Nevis or Paea? I'd gladly accept either. Nevis definitely fits the mold of a penetrating UT and that would greatly tempt JA and Lovie. Paea may not be a great fit in the same way, but his value is terrific there. With Harris and possibly Adams both out, we simply need more talent at the position, in whatever form.

And while our WR corps definitely requires help, as right now it is entirely made up of guys who would be great #3s, I don't buy Jerry Angelo actually going that way.

J'Marcus Webb terrified me at LT as well, as I feel like he'd get Cutler badly blindsided. And sadly, he's probably going to get every chance to be our LT of the future too...

T-RICH49
03-02-2011, 07:30 PM
loves me some Phil Taylor

ATLDirtyBirds
03-02-2011, 07:30 PM
I'll jump in real quick on a few things.

Falcons - I pushed for the Mike Pouncey pick, but I could certainly see them go in another direction. If they believe Justin Houston can be a capable pass rusher as a DE, then that makes sense for them, and I admittedly didn't ponder Houston too much. I've got a hard time seeing them go Torrey Smith, but I wouldn't rule it out.

Let's be honest, online IRC mocks, when we near the end, it's sort of, let's get it done. My rationale for the Pouncey pick was that McClure was aging, and Dahl was a FA. Would it be that inconceivable, if they liked Pouncey enough (and I think Pouncey will go in Rd. 1 right now) for them to grab a guy to groom. Off the top, isn't Blalock a FA as well?



They both are FAs. Mike Johnson, our 3rd rounder from last year, is ready to slide in, and a plethora of other guys at that other G spot. And that's assuming we bring neither back.


We are good on depth. We need explosiveness, which is what Smith/Dimitroff have been preaching since the Packers steam rolled us.

GB12
03-02-2011, 07:45 PM
We don't need an ILB. We do however need an OLB. Justin Houston no question there.

TACKLE
03-02-2011, 08:00 PM
We don't need an ILB. We do however need an OLB. Justin Houston no question there.

Martez would be an OLB. The value is very good with Houston but he seems like a very poor fit in the Packers 3-4. At 270 and with his limited COD skill, Houston is a much better fit as a 4-3 DE. Clay is their feature pass rusher so they need a guy on the other side who they can trust in coverage so they can give move Clay around and give him the flexibility to rush from different places. Houston is strictly as pass rusher as an OLB. Martez was actually at his best at Illinois when they let him come off the edge and he clearly has the athleticism and experience to be effective dropping in coverage. He could be a versatile, highly athletic weapon for Capers to use in his defense.

Jakey
03-02-2011, 08:02 PM
Ijalana is a solid pick there, although i would prefer Cannon and i think the Steelers would probably prefer Wisnewski (sp).

And ofc a CB is always a possibility.

toonsterwu
03-02-2011, 08:09 PM
What would be wrong with Nevis or Paea? I'd gladly accept either. Nevis definitely fits the mold of a penetrating UT and that would greatly tempt JA and Lovie. Paea may not be a great fit in the same way, but his value is terrific there. With Harris and possibly Adams both out, we simply need more talent at the position, in whatever form.

And while our WR corps definitely requires help, as right now it is entirely made up of guys who would be great #3s, I don't buy Jerry Angelo actually going that way.

J'Marcus Webb terrified me at LT as well, as I feel like he'd get Cutler badly blindsided. And sadly, he's probably going to get every chance to be our LT of the future too...

In the Lovie regime, certain positions on defense are places that they tend to not give high energy to, and much as I love Paea, I've got a hard time seeing them target a 4-3 NT in the first. If they believed Paea was a possible 3-technique, okay.

I love Nevis. I really do, but ... he's so undersized that I'm not sure Nevis has first round value.

BeerBaron
03-02-2011, 08:12 PM
In the Lovie regime, certain positions on defense are places that they tend to not give high energy to, and much as I love Paea, I've got a hard time seeing them target a 4-3 NT in the first. If they believed Paea was a possible 3-technique, okay.

I love Nevis. I really do, but ... he's so undersized that I'm not sure Nevis has first round value.

We have Melton at 260 playing there, and it's not quite like the league is heavily enough run-oriented that I'd worry about Nevis standing up against power run teams.

Definite possibility I think.

toonsterwu
03-02-2011, 08:14 PM
We have Melton at 260 playing there, and it's not quite like the league is heavily enough run-oriented that I'd worry about Nevis standing up against power run teams.

Definite possibility I think.

Wait, i think you are misunderstanding me, or something. I'm not saying Nevis isn't a 3-technique, or that he isn't a fit. I love his pass-rushing ability.

I'm saying that a 280ish, 6'0" Nevis, who isn't that stout against the run, well, I'm not real sold that player is a first round pick.

BeerBaron
03-02-2011, 08:14 PM
Just looked up his official numbers....6'0 and half and 294. Not bad at all. I was worried more about weight than height. Being short and stumpy might actually benefit him in getting leverage.

toonsterwu
03-02-2011, 08:16 PM
Just looked up his official numbers....6'0 and half and 294. Not bad at all. I was worried more about weight than height. Being short and stumpy might actually benefit him in getting leverage.

There is one comparison that could be made, though, for Nevis to defend him as a first rounder - he does compare somewhat positively to Mike Patterson coming out.

Scotty D
03-02-2011, 08:35 PM
Ingram is a poor pick for the Lions.

Matthew Jones
03-02-2011, 08:36 PM
Wilkerson could definitely work at #17, but considering New England's tradition of seniors as opposed to underclassmen, I'd bet that they'd rather grab someone like Kerrigan or Heyward at #17 if Cameron Jordan isn't available.

I don't think Carimi is the best fit at all - man blocking guy in Dante Scarnecchia's zone blocking scheme. Offensive tackle is a position that I expect the Patriots to mostly ignore this year unless the value is absolutely outstanding or no one else is left. I project them to re-sign Matt Light to a one or two-year deal and draft a backup in the mid rounds as a swing tackle and developmental guy like they usually do.

Where the Patriots really need help on offense is in the middle of their defensive line. Koppen has had trouble with nose tackles for a while and will be 32 in September. The Patriots have supposedly targeted guys like Maurkice Pouncey and Eric Wood in recent years (and brought in Al Johnson to push him a couple of seasons ago), so if they like the value of a Wisniewski or Pouncey there, I'd expect them to make that pick. Depending on whether or not Logan Mankins plays, the Patriots could have a serious need for a guard too now that Neal retired and Kaczur is on his way out.

Justin Houston and Brooks Reed are two guys to strongly consider at the end of the first, although Houston's stiffness in coverage will not help his chances.

49erNation85
03-02-2011, 08:46 PM
Excellent pick for SF.Since they released their LB now it is another need ugh!

toonsterwu
03-02-2011, 08:51 PM
Ingram is a poor pick for the Lions.

that was a somewhat odd situation in our mock. I had casually mentioned the idea that Ingram was a possible darkhorse pick for them (Schwartz and Co. would like a more physical run game), but I didn't anticipate going with Ingram. I didn't realize that someone else was leaning Ingram. Another player got 2 votes, but I didn't believe in that player going that high. Rather than bringing in a 3rd option, which would've thrown the vote to the other player, I decided to push this to vidae making a tie-breaking vote.

For me, the vote on Ingram was more to prevent a pick that I just did not believe in there. I don't really anticipate Ingram going there, although it wouldn't shock me if they surprise with that route.

toonsterwu
03-02-2011, 08:56 PM
Wilkerson could definitely work at #17, but considering New England's tradition of seniors as opposed to underclassmen, I'd bet that they'd rather grab someone like Kerrigan or Heyward at #17 if Cameron Jordan isn't available.

I don't think Carimi is the best fit at all - man blocking guy in Dante Scarnecchia's zone blocking scheme. Offensive tackle is a position that I expect the Patriots to mostly ignore this year unless the value is absolutely outstanding or no one else is left. I project them to re-sign Matt Light to a one or two-year deal and draft a backup in the mid rounds as a swing tackle and developmental guy like they usually do.

Where the Patriots really need help on offense is in the middle of their defensive line. Koppen has had trouble with nose tackles for a while and will be 32 in September. The Patriots have supposedly targeted guys like Maurkice Pouncey and Eric Wood in recent years (and brought in Al Johnson to push him a couple of seasons ago), so if they like the value of a Wisniewski or Pouncey there, I'd expect them to make that pick. Depending on whether or not Logan Mankins plays, the Patriots could have a serious need for a guard too now that Neal retired and Kaczur is on his way out.

Justin Houston and Brooks Reed are two guys to strongly consider at the end of the first, although Houston's stiffness in coverage will not help his chances.

I had been targeting Pouncey for the Patriots the whole time, but I liked the Pouncey fit enough on paper with Atlanta. I'm not real sold of Wisnewski as a first round pick and didn't ponder it that much, but sure, I could see that.

I really don't anticipate Carimi falling there. The value is fairly solid there. Not out of this world great, but solid. Carimi is the type of guy that could probably start inside, and then eventually shift to RT when Light is let go. As a side note, Wisconsin does run it's fair share of zone blocking, off the top of my head.

The reality is that, if New England exercises both first round picks, I think plenty of people are going to be mildly surprised.

coordinator0
03-02-2011, 09:13 PM
Jimmy Smith to the Ravens is a good pick. I know who was driving that train in this mock...

thebow305
03-02-2011, 09:58 PM
Locker is definitely a risky pick, but I'd be alright with it.

prock
03-02-2011, 11:01 PM
I dig Cam Jordan.

proshoota25
03-03-2011, 02:20 AM
i agree with the other pats fans. wilkerson is a great fit, but i think if anything, the patriots would move back a few spots and then secure his services if he is the true target. they did the same with mccourty last year.