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JohnCandy
03-04-2011, 10:32 PM
These are from a piece Bob McGinn does every year on the draft for the Milwaukee Journal Sentinal

Nate Solder-" he's the most talented tackle overall. he's just got a ways to go with his anchor and learning the tricks of the trade. He doesnt have the grit and finish or the lower body-strength yet. Too tall

Tyron Smith-" his technique is all screwed up, but he has great body balance, feet, and quickness.

Castonzo- "technically, he may be the best of the tackles. he's got a little stiffness. He's athletic but I just dont see any power to him. I just dont like the way he's built. He's linear not real bulky guy.

Carimi- "I think he's probably the most ready to play. I dont think he will be elite type tackle but he will be a good solid pro." 2 scouts said right tackle only. " I think he's a first round pick almost by default. not as good as Bulaga. smart kid, will battle you, you could do worse.

Pouncey- "Brother was a little more powerful. He wont always be pretty but he anchors really well, which is a key for centers and guards. good range, above average athlete, good size, plays hard. had half a dozen faulty shotgun snaps in 2010.

J. Baldwin- " Best hands in draft, huge targert, great ball skills. definatley more of an X(split end) than a Z(flanker). not a good route runner. maneuverability in his hips is a little bit of an issue. chip on his shoulder wants to prove hes as good as Green and Jones.

Liuget- "He's a whole lot better than i thought he was going to be. he doesnt stay blocked long. hes going to beat you with his strength and his feet. quick off the ball, real stout, good insticts.

D Sherrod- " did not look good at senior bowl. hes a hit or miss fuy. Smarter than you average Mississippi State guy. He will be a starter."

Ijalana-" Athletically he's really good. he can bend. He plays to his competition level. the question is, does his fire burn all the time. turned it up only 2 or 3 times in his career. Hes a slab of a man who underachieves. hes willing to work just hasnt had a coach up his rear.

O Franklin-" I think he's better than Castonzo." another scout said "top 50 or 60 player, better than Carimi, more physical and athletic.

M. Cannon- " He tries to win with his size. he's go some stiffness. does not always finish. not ready to play. it will take him a year or so to get it. when he does he has the ability to play left tackle.

Marcus Gilbert- " Hes not real bright. Underachiever, bust waiting to happen."

Kerrigan- " Hes a Kerney, Vanden Bosch. going to make it because he persitstent and savvy. He cares so much. Hes a little tight.

Paea- "he's got a little bit of a height issue. He's a 3-technique. not a nose tackle.

P. Taylor- "He has to keep his weight under control. He's got ability no question about it. really gifted feet.

M. Austin- "if he had any character at all he would be a 1st round pick. he's a punk but he has special, special feet. He does some athletic stuff that makes you go Holy $@*#%

Jimmy Smith- " He's a pretty good player but he's a jerk." most scouts like him but had expressed major misgivings about his character.

Brandon Harris- " Plays with his eyes. he's confident. we see him more as a late second or third round guy."

Aaron Williams- "Hes more finesse than physical. Then again, Texas guys are pampered and cant fight through adversity. good

TheSlinger
03-04-2011, 11:15 PM
Kerrigan- " Hes a Kerney, Vanden Bosch. "

Seriously. Seriously. Seriously.

descendency
03-04-2011, 11:22 PM
Is that all of it, because Aaron Williams stops in mid sentence..

CashmoneyDrew
03-04-2011, 11:30 PM
That scout has horrid grammar.

BeerBaron
03-04-2011, 11:30 PM
Why would Paea's lack of height preclude him from being a NT? I'd rather have a shorter guy with leverage than a 6'5 behemoth who's raw strength can be undone by centers getting under him and out leveraging him.

JohnCandy
03-04-2011, 11:33 PM
Why would Paea's lack of height preclude him from being a NT? I'd rather have a shorter guy with leverage than a 6'5 behemoth who's raw strength can be undone by centers getting under him and out leveraging him.

I do not think it is the height. I think it is the 303lbs. that would keep him from anchoring in the middle of a 3-4.

JohnCandy
03-04-2011, 11:33 PM
I thought the Orlando Franklin comment was interesting as I said in another thread he is gaining steam.

BeerBaron
03-04-2011, 11:47 PM
I do not think it is the height. I think it is the 303lbs. that would keep him from anchoring in the middle of a 3-4.

He just said about the height and not being a NT. Misinterpreted I guess.

JohnCandy
03-04-2011, 11:53 PM
He just said about the height and not being a NT. Misinterpreted I guess.

I think that this was transcribed from an interview so there are some grammar issues.

I just do not see Paea as a NT, bench press is great, but a NT is built from the legs.

FUNBUNCHER
03-05-2011, 12:08 AM
I love Jonathan Baldwin, but 'best hands in draft'???

Over the top praise IMO. At best you could only say he has 'some of the best hands', or ' equal to' the other top prospects coming out.

How does Baldwin have better hands than AJ Green?? That would be like saying Baldwin NEVER DROPPED A PASS. Ever. Even when the ball wasn't thrown directly to him.

I love to hear what scouts think about prospects because of the added insight the can give usually informed by sharing notes with other professional insiders, but man sometimes they sound really off on guys.

Solder could bust because he IMO lacks an instinctive feel for playing OT, like Robert Gallery, another guy who had the tools to be elite but couldn't figure it out at the pro level.

MidwayMonster31
03-05-2011, 12:50 AM
Austin Pettis is not amused at talk of Baldwin having the best hands in the draft.
Vanden Bosch is a pretty good comparison for Kerrigan. Both high motor guys who might not have the best size, strength or speed.
For Solder, 6'9 might be too tall. Since he's not a natural knee bender, it would be easy for outside linebackers to get leverage on him. He also doesn't have the best technique yet.

gpngc
03-05-2011, 01:20 AM
I remember these from the past few years. Where's the actual article link?

I agree with a lot of it (Baldwin stiffness, Kerrigan stiffness, Liuget monster, Taylor monster, Austin talented, Pouncey not as strong as his brother). And Paea doesn't play like a NT - he's more of a penetrator than anchor.

What I don't understand is how Brandon Harris is a 2nd-3rd round pick??? Size?

Duffman57
03-05-2011, 01:20 AM
He just said about the height and not being a NT. Misinterpreted I guess.

I think that was supposed to be somewhat of a sidenote. So he does'nt have to bulk to be anything but a UT, and he isn't a NT. Or at least, thats how i read it.

Iamcanadian
03-05-2011, 10:24 AM
I thought the Orlando Franklin comment was interesting as I said in another thread he is gaining steam.

It just shows the guy doesn't know hat he is talking about. Franklin after his post season, is strictly an OG prospect ande doesn't come close to having the feet the other top OT's in the draft does.

SenorGato
03-05-2011, 11:26 AM
I remember these from the past few years. Where's the actual article link?

I agree with a lot of it (Baldwin stiffness, Kerrigan stiffness, Liuget monster, Taylor monster, Austin talented, Pouncey not as strong as his brother). And Paea doesn't play like a NT - he's more of a penetrator than anchor.

What I don't understand is how Brandon Harris is a 2nd-3rd round pick??? Size?

+1 with everything here...I do question whether Baldwin's got the best hands but it's not unbelievable....and the Harris thing is weird...I like him better than that...we've seen top CB prospects fall before though...remember Moore and Smith a couple years ago....

Don Vito
03-05-2011, 11:45 AM
D Sherrod- " did not look good at senior bowl. hes a hit or miss fuy. Smarter than you average Mississippi State guy. He will be a starter."


Hate! Hate! Hate!

A lot of hatred coming from this scout. Diabolical.

Texas Homer
03-05-2011, 12:11 PM
Aaron Williams- "Hes more finesse than physical.

LOL.

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb313/ptrain33/AaronWilliams.gif

Don Vito
03-05-2011, 12:16 PM
LOL.

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb313/ptrain33/AaronWilliams.gif

Keep in mind that tackling NFL players is harder than bringing down a Colorado return man who happens to be standing still.

Texas Homer
03-05-2011, 12:16 PM
I'd say that Aaron Williams is pretty physical.

Here a clip of A-Dub from the Texas vs. Nebraska Big 12 Championship game.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fk4QdMwWy6Q

marshallb
03-05-2011, 12:17 PM
Keep in mind that is a lot harder to do when the player isn't the Colorado's returner who happens to be standing still.

Yea, I was going to say that a hit on a special teams play doesn't affect how he plays as a corner which is what is most important as far Williams's physicality(or perceived lack thereof).

marshallb
03-05-2011, 12:21 PM
I'd say that Aaron Williams is pretty physical.

Here a clip of A-Dub from the Texas vs. Nebraska Big 12 Championship game.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fk4QdMwWy6Q

Sorry man, but I didn't see any great physicality in that highlight. He made a couple tackles, but none were real strong aggressive tackles, and I didn't once see him get physical with a WR.

Texas Homer
03-05-2011, 12:23 PM
Yea, I was going to say that a hit on a special teams play doesn't affect how he plays as a corner which is what is most important as far Williams's physicality(or perceived lack thereof).

I'm just curious. Have you heard anyone else express that Williams might have a lack of physicality as a CB?

I haven't. This is the first time that I have ever heard anyone imply that.

gpngc
03-05-2011, 12:25 PM
Sorry man, but I didn't see any great physicality in that highlight. He made a couple tackles, but none were real strong aggressive tackles, and I didn't once see him get physical with a WR.

Agreed.

I don't think it was a huge knock, but I think "willing tackler" and "physical (aggressive,especially as it pertains to press coverage" are two different things and that's what I think the scout was saying.

Williams still looks like a nice prospect.

Texas Homer
03-05-2011, 12:34 PM
Agreed.

I don't think it was a huge knock, but I think "willing tackler" and "physical (aggressive,especially as it pertains to press coverage" are two different things and that's what I think the scout was saying.

Williams still looks like a nice prospect.

Thats an honest post.

I still very much disagree with this scout's assessment of Aaron Williams lack of physicalness as a CB.

I think pretty much everyone that has watched Texas play the last few seasons would agree.

Texas Homer
03-05-2011, 12:36 PM
I'll try and stay away from this thread though as not to clutter it up on my thoughts on this b/c I am biased and could probably go on-and-on all day on this.

Thanks for posting.

His thoughts are definitely interesting.

ElectricEye
03-05-2011, 12:37 PM
That's very harsh on Marcus Gilbert, but I tend to agree with that sentiment.

marshallb
03-05-2011, 12:41 PM
I'm just curious. Have you heard anyone else express that Williams might have a lack of physicality as a CB?

I haven't. This is the first time that I have ever heard anyone imply that.

Agreed.

I don't think it was a huge knock, but I think "willing tackler" and "physical (aggressive,especially as it pertains to press coverage" are two different things and that's what I think the scout was saying.

Williams still looks like a nice prospect.

I think that's the best way to put it. I didn't have much of a problem with his physicality, but I can see what the scout was saying. I still like Williams as a prospect quite a bit with that being said.

PossibleCabbage
03-05-2011, 12:43 PM
Why would Paea's lack of height preclude him from being a NT? I'd rather have a shorter guy with leverage than a 6'5 behemoth who's raw strength can be undone by centers getting under him and out leveraging him.

I think the "he's got a height issue" and "he's a 3-tech, not an NT" are unrelated comments. Since he certainly isn't tall, and he doesn't play like your classic 2-gapping nose tackle (as he's more of a penetrator.) That being said, of course, if he were allowed the same responsibilities as a Jay Ratliff in your defense, he could do fine at NT.

drd23
03-05-2011, 03:04 PM
I remember these from the past few years. Where's the actual article link?

I agree with a lot of it (Baldwin stiffness, Kerrigan stiffness, Liuget monster, Taylor monster, Austin talented, Pouncey not as strong as his brother). And Paea doesn't play like a NT - he's more of a penetrator than anchor.

What I don't understand is how Brandon Harris is a 2nd-3rd round pick??? Size?Mike Mayock thought the exact same thing before the combine

ElectricEye
03-05-2011, 03:11 PM
I've never considered Paea as a NT prospect. Just doesn't have the right build or skillset for it. In a one gap system, sure, I can buy it...but that's a bit of a stretch too even.

etk
03-05-2011, 03:17 PM
"Brandon Harris - 3rd rounder"

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Amazing that some of these guys have jobs still.

JohnCandy
03-05-2011, 03:22 PM
I thought it was interesting what he said about the top OTs, like Solder, Carimi and Costanzo being very tall and angular guys.

None of the top OTs are monsters like Jake Long, they look more like Basktball Power Forwards.

I keep getting the feeling that teams boards when it comes to OL are going to shock us.

brasho
03-05-2011, 03:30 PM
Keep in mind that tackling NFL players is harder than bringing down a Colorado return man who happens to be standing still.

I was thinking the same thing... and also was wondering why Williams had to forklift the guy instead of landing a kill shot.

brasho
03-05-2011, 03:32 PM
I'll try and stay away from this thread though as not to clutter it up on my thoughts on this b/c I am biased and could probably go on-and-on all day on this.

Thanks for posting.

His thoughts are definitely interesting.

Why? It's not like you're a Texas-homer or anything... oh, wait, yeah, I get it.

JohnCandy
03-05-2011, 10:32 PM
I am surprised that the only guys on the OL that he indicates will be starters early are, Gabe Carimi, Derek Sherrod and maybe Orlando Franklin.

LonghornsLegend
03-05-2011, 11:11 PM
I love Jonathan Baldwin, but 'best hands in draft'???

Over the top praise IMO. At best you could only say he has 'some of the best hands', or ' equal to' the other top prospects coming out.

How does Baldwin have better hands than AJ Green?? That would be like saying Baldwin NEVER DROPPED A PASS. Ever. Even when the ball wasn't thrown directly to him.


Alliquippa don't miss!!11!1!1!!



Anyways this was a good read, I look forward to these every off-season. It's just 1 scout, so you have to take things with a grain of salt because another scout can think the complete opposite of 1 player.






"Brandon Harris - 3rd rounder"

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Amazing that some of these guys have jobs still.



I didn't know you had a crystal ball that told you which players would become good pros, otherwise I don't see the huge problem. Harris could very well be drafted in the early part of the 2nd round, he'd only be a round off with his projection.


I remember just reading something that said Jim Harbaugh had David Carr rated as a 6th round QB the year he came out, that crazy ol' Jim what a wonder he still has a job right? You can't expect a guy to just rank a player where everyone else is if he doesn't see that on film or feel the same way.



But according to you he should be fired because his
pre-draft ranking is terrible even though Harris has yet to step foot on an NFL field.

descendency
03-05-2011, 11:51 PM
Harris could very well be drafted in the early part of the 2nd round, he'd only be a round off with his projection.

A round is a lot when you consider that it is that high in the draft. . . I mean, no one has Marcell Dareus in the second round or even likely past NE the first time (I doubt any good scout has him outside of the top 10).

Harris may well go in round 3 though. Good players do fall for some reason.

LonghornsLegend
03-06-2011, 12:00 AM
A round is a lot when you consider that it is that high in the draft. . . I mean, no one has Marcell Dareus in the second round or even likely past NE the first time (I doubt any good scout has him outside of the top 10).

Harris may well go in round 3 though. Good players do fall for some reason.



Even Scott in his own rankings and projections call players "2nd-3rd round prospect". Not many people are going out and calling guys a 2nd rounder, or 3rd rounder, and round off in that scenario isn't that much IMO. There are a ton of guys who will end up 2nd round picks only because 1 team decided to reach when the rest of the teams would wait, same reason a bunch of guys end up 3rd round picks because they just slide further.



I don't think anyone saw Everson Griffin going to the 4th round last year after being mocked late 1st at this point in the process. I don't think Harris is an elite prospect, so I didn't see anything wrong with the comments(even though it's just as likely that he goes in the 1st as he does in the 3rd).

Sniper
03-06-2011, 12:08 AM
You planning on perhaps providing a link or do you want to keep screwing the author out of the clicks?

PossibleCabbage
03-06-2011, 12:11 AM
You planning on perhaps providing a link or do you want to keep screwing the author out of the clicks?

It's actually an article behind a paywall on the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel website, so you're not exactly denying them clicks since I doubt most people here are going to subscribe to "Packer Insider" ($6.95/month, $44.95/year). It may have been in the MJS print edition last week, I can't rightly say.

Someone could probably c/p the whole article here, but I think the copyright holders would like it even less than someone just lifting specific quotes, as the latter falls somewhat within the grounds of "fair use."

cajuncorey
03-06-2011, 08:47 AM
yeah the dude didnt even use the full quotes so hes in the right... i think

Wrathman
03-07-2011, 10:08 PM
I think it's pretty cool that some scout shares some of their information like this over the past several years.

It's probably not nearly so cool that a few of the Youtube scouts that post here don't understand that this is not a "black and white" business and that divergent opinions are a good thing. Instead they call the scout dumb, stupid and/or wrong because they have a different opinion, but they can't provide any valid counterpoint to support their argument.

SSDD

GaMeTiMe
03-07-2011, 10:36 PM
I think it's pretty cool that some scout shares some of their information like this over the past several years.

It's probably not nearly so cool that a few of the Youtube scouts that post here don't understand that this is not a "black and white" business and that divergent opinions are a good thing. Instead they call the scout dumb, stupid and/or wrong because they have a different opinion, but they can't provide any valid counterpoint to support their argument.


Exactly. And all of it almost creates a collective groan that basically says "Didn't you see Scott's rankings?!!?"

These guys aren't pulling the trigger on making these picks for the teams. They don't read your mock. They might not even really know what the personnel decisions the team they work for plans to make. Their job is to scout these guys and give an evaluation on the types of players they are. This is professional insight, not the secret tell-all interview of what prospect is going to be drafted where.

Brown Leader
03-07-2011, 11:40 PM
Some of the interesting anonymous quotes from scouts, or a scout, per PFW draft mag in their section, "what the scouts are saying"...def the best part of the mag...

Cam Newton - " a big time athlete-he's more smooth and fluid than explosive. His mechanics are all off. He's more of a thrower than passer. He's got that flashy smile and the look in his eye and he's way too scripted-I don't like it. He's too fake. "

Tandon Doss - " might have the best hands in the draft. He's going to make a killing in the slot in this league. "

Torrey Smith - " has a great story. I wanted to like him when I read about his mom-he's a great story. Those Maryland WRs run fast. He'll tear it up on the track. But I watched 5 games and kept waiting for him to show up, and he didn't. He disappears too much for me. "

Jerel Jernigan - " will need time to learn routes. He's really little. Steve Smith (Panthers) went in the 3rd round and was more explosive than him. Mike Wallace was more explosive. Mike Thomas went in the 4th and was a better football player. For a little guy, I wish he were more explosive and shifty "

Virgil Green - " didn't get a lot of love from scouts during the fall, but he made a one handed grab on the sideline where he laid out, and you saw everyone start scribbling in their notebooks. He's more than just the workout warrior that he gets labeled as. "

James Brewer - " has long arms. He's a good athlete. He can run. He's a helluva zone blocker. You don't see him maul anyone in the run blocking, but he has the feet to play on the left side. They had Saffold there, so they kept him on the right side. "

Gabe Carimi - " is a big ole Wis. kid. He's not powerful, and he's not a good athlete. He falls off blocks. He's a leaner. Someone will take him high up there, but it won't be us. He's a right tackle for me. "

Derek Sherrod - " will start in the league, but I would be surprised if he's starting at LT. He doesn't get challenged much. We like him as a OG. "

Adrian Clayborn - " I'll take the one armed ass kicker over most of these guys. His arm is scary. It's noticeable in practice. He's still a damn good player but we'll leave it in the hands of the medical people. "

Corey Liuget - " is a quick and instinctive 3tech. A good athlete and plays with good effort. Even though we play in a 40 front, we want our guys bigger inside. Our coaches would be looking at us funny if we brought him here. He's not big enough for us. We wouldn't look at him until the 3rd. "

Phil Taylor - " flashed in one on one drills-he did not light it up. He pushes up field in drills but you get to team situations, he gets walled off and stuck. "

Casey Matthews - " is active but golly, he is short armed with small hands. He's a short, compact, self made, pumped up guy. I know everyone is going to get wrapped up in his name-I get it and I like his instincts-but he can't wrap or take on blocks. "

Martez Wilson - " is stiff, stiff, stiff-he can't bend down and touch his own ankles. There is a lot to sort through with him, medically and off the field. I don't know what he does for you. "

Justin Houston - " I watched 5 games and I kept waiting for him to make plays, and he didn't do anything. You hear how great he is, but he is over sold in my opinion. I don't see the athletic ability or elite edge speed. "

Patrick Peterson - " goes low too much as a tackler-it drives me nuts. I'm usually dialed in to height-weight-speed prospects, but he is horrible freelancing. He's not good with his back to the ball. If he lands in our division, bombs away. "

Prince Amukamara - " gets caught with his eyes in the backfield a lot-that's why they get him with the back shoulder throws and double moves. He likes to peek and squat. College OCs figured it out. They will go after him at our level. "

Jimmy Smith - " is really talented but I would not touch him. He's too inconsistent for me-he has good games and bad games. I don't like the way he competes. "

Ahmad Black - " is small, and we're not talking about Bob Sanders. Even if he pumps up to 190, he's still small at the end of the day. This is a big man's game. What I always ask myself is-could this guy step in front of Steven Jackson and Adrian Peterson and tackle. I don't see it. Some one else might like him early, but I don't. I think he has to be a CB."

Tyler Sash - " I like his instincts. He's somewhere in that same caliber of player as Giordano, Zbikowski, who I thought was overdrafted, and Sean Considine. "

GaMeTiMe
03-08-2011, 12:29 AM
^All I can say to that is WOW.

TACKLE
03-08-2011, 01:03 AM
That scout is one Negative Nancy.

gpngc
03-08-2011, 01:11 AM
*EDITS PROSPECT GRADES*

Tandon Doss = 9.8

Everyone else = 5 or lower

TonyGfortheTD
03-08-2011, 01:28 AM
That scout is one Negative Nancy.

When your opinion will decide who will get millions and millions of dollars, yeah it's gonna happen.

GB12
03-08-2011, 01:37 AM
Just so you know, the quotes in the original post are from a number of different scouts, not one guy.

bam bam
03-08-2011, 01:41 AM
I love hearing scouts honest quotes. Usually in public interview scouts will always talk about the positive things and talk up guys, and it drives me nuts because I know there's a lot of dirt they can put out there. Eric DeCosta does it all the time. I guess they have to be this way so they dont tip their hand to other teams.

ChiFan24
03-08-2011, 05:37 AM
I'd like to see these articles in years past from McGinn....see how accurate this scout is (if it's the same guy).

yourfavestoner
03-08-2011, 10:48 AM
I think it's pretty cool that some scout shares some of their information like this over the past several years.

It's probably not nearly so cool that a few of the Youtube scouts that post here don't understand that this is not a "black and white" business and that divergent opinions are a good thing. Instead they call the scout dumb, stupid and/or wrong because they have a different opinion, but they can't provide any valid counterpoint to support their argument.

SSDD

Exactly. And all of it almost creates a collective groan that basically says "Didn't you see Scott's rankings?!!?"

These guys aren't pulling the trigger on making these picks for the teams. They don't read your mock. They might not even really know what the personnel decisions the team they work for plans to make. Their job is to scout these guys and give an evaluation on the types of players they are. This is professional insight, not the secret tell-all interview of what prospect is going to be drafted where.

You two win.

A lot of people don't understand how little influence scouts have in the drafting process, despite having the most (or best) information about a player.

killxswitch
03-08-2011, 11:16 AM
Some of the interesting anonymous quotes from scouts, or a scout, per PFW draft mag in their section, "what the scouts are saying"...def the best part of the mag...

So... does this guy like anybody other than Tandon Doss?

PossibleCabbage
03-08-2011, 11:52 AM
That scout is one Negative Nancy.

Scouts are paid as much to come up with reasons "not to draft this guy" than anything else. Anybody who has watched a college football game in the past year can tell you that Cam Newton is talented, that doesn't take much in the way of critical analysis. It's a symptom of the "draft as entertainment" business that we try to make the best of everybody, since that way we drum up excitement and we can get people to come on our shows if we've been nice to them. Scouts have no reason to be nice, in fact they probably shouldn't be nice since most of the 255 guys drafted anyway won't even manage to be average.

SchizophrenicBatman
03-08-2011, 11:57 AM
That scout is one Negative Nancy.

He's totally right about Peterson, though. No one brings it up b/c of his hype and he got away with it in college but the guy freelances more than DeAngelo Hall.

That's one of the big reasons I think he'd better at safety. Not his size

TACKLE
03-08-2011, 12:11 PM
That scout is one Negative Nancy.

He's totally right about Peterson, though. No one brings it up b/c of his hype and he got away with it in college but the guy freelances more than DeAngelo Hall.

That's one of the big reasons I think he'd better at safety. Not his size

I was kind of being silly with that comment. Clearly he's not going to hype up prospects his team likes and is interested in drafting.

Also on the topic of Peterson, he is still raw technically, no doubt about that. There are numerous corners in this draft more polished than him. He's been more of an athlete playing cornerback opposed to a cornerback who is an athlete yet he still managed to be the most dominant corners in college football. He should become more technically sound and disciplined with NFL coaching and when he does, there's no reason to believe he can't be an elite cornerback.

Brown Leader
03-08-2011, 01:27 PM
So... does this guy like anybody other than Tandon Doss?

Jake Locker - " has an ascend factor. What you see is what you get. I don't think you can throw him out there day one, but I would take him over all of them. He has so much upside."

Jacquizz Rodgers - " left school so he could help his mom out. That's why his brother was thinking of leaving last year. His brother has been the one who returns kicks, but that's not to say he can't do it. He'll be a factor just like Darren Sproles."

John Moffitt - "could be a helluva center. He's strictly an in line player, but he's smart enough to play both OG and OC. He's a tough 4 year starter."

Will Rackley - "stood out at the East-West shrine game. He was the best lineman there. It wasn't even close. He has such strong hands."

Marcell Dareus - " is a slam dunk. I would take him....He's a helluva football player.."

There a bunch more both positive and negative-it makes no indication if it's the same guy or not. Should be noted that it sounds like these are from just after the senior week practices.

BigBanger
03-08-2011, 03:21 PM
Adrian Clayborn - " I'll take the one armed ass kicker over most of these guys. His arm is scary. It's noticeable in practice. He's still a damn good player but we'll leave it in the hands of the medical people. "
No one talks about this. His arm should be a major talking point. I brought it up months ago, and this is the first time I have heard someone else bring it up. He's a great player, but that arm limits his ability to use his hands / technique.

I fully agree about Justin Houston. I was shocked that he came out early and I'm maybe even more shocked that people are talking about him at the end of round 1. Whenever I saw him, he was pretty much invisible. At the Combine he looked really bad in space, was tight and looks like a 43 DE.

Cam Newton comments were pretty much dead on.


Everything he said about the top 3 CBs (Peterson, Prince, Smith) is true. It's their biggest weaknesses / question marks.

GB12
03-08-2011, 03:41 PM
I'd like to see these articles in years past from McGinn....see how accurate this scout is (if it's the same guy).

Just so you know, the quotes in the original post are from a number of different scouts, not one guy.

.......................

asdf1223
03-08-2011, 04:01 PM
If anyone wants to look what they said to Mcginn in 2009 here's the link.
http://corner.bigblueinteractive.com/index.php?mode=2&thread=333250

Shere Khan
03-09-2011, 09:15 AM
Some of the interesting anonymous quotes from scouts, or a scout, per PFW draft mag in their section, "what the scouts are saying"...def the best part of the mag...

Yeah, I love the PFW Draft Mag, I pick it up as soon as its released.

I like reading that part as well....very insightful.

Shere Khan
03-09-2011, 09:18 AM
So... does this guy like anybody other than Tandon Doss?

Yeah, he liked Marcel Dareus, said he 'was a slam dunk'.

Was kinda wary of Bowers, completely turned off by Will Hill and Marvin Austin.

I have the mag, but not in front of me right now.

SolidGold
03-09-2011, 10:08 AM
Some of the same criticisms are shared between Locker and Freeman...I think Locker is this year's Josh Freeman

JOSH FREEMAN Kansas State 6-5 1/2 250 4.95 1-2
Became the starter five games into his freshman season and finished 14-18 overall. “He’s not a Donovan McNabb or a Daunte Culpepper, but if you’re looking for a quarterback to groom I would say this is the guy,” St. Louis VP Tony Softli said. “He’s got the size, the arm strength, touch. He can run with the ball. Very articulate and very smart (27 on the Wonderlic).” Operated a spread shotgun offense with marginal effectiveness, finishing with a passer rating of 81.0. Passed for 8,078 yards, breaking Lynn Dickey’s school record of 6,208. “You can’t pull any tape out and say you feel good about how that guy plays,” one scout said. “He’s bad. Raw talent but he has no clue. He has no vision. Very inaccurate. Their offense was one of the most inept I’ve seen. Him trying to run it, it was hard to watch.” His father, Ron, played in the United States Football League. Grew up in Kansas City. “He’s raw with footwork and release points,” another scout said. “Very inconsistent accuracy. He’s got some underachiever in him. Even though he’s smart enough he’s got some laziness about him.”

SolidGold
03-09-2011, 10:09 AM
Does anyone know when the McGinn stuff comes out? Is it usually closer to the draft?

Matthew Jones
03-09-2011, 11:59 AM
Does anyone know when the McGinn stuff comes out? Is it usually closer to the draft?

Don't quote me on this, but I remember it coming out only a few days before the draft last year.

JFINK11
03-09-2011, 12:14 PM
J. Baldwin- " Best hands in draft, huge targert, great ball skills. definatley more of an X(split end) than a Z(flanker). not a good route runner. maneuverability in his hips is a little bit of an issue. chip on his shoulder wants to prove hes as good as Green and Jones.


I think this entire thread is awesome but this i just 100% not true. What ball skills? I have watched every game of Jon Baldwin in the Pitt uniform and do not recall one game of him having good, rather than elite ball skills. Most notably his adjustments to the ball in the air that is misthrown. His abillity to high point a ball is extremely weak. when they talk abotu going up and getting it or not waiting for the ball to come to you they should show some of his highlights. If you dont believe me just watch one of his good games against West Virginia (not the game with Tino Sunseri....with the 2nd team all big east bill stull).... Hes all freak athlete and huge production against he mediocre defenses of the Big East. That being said, when the ball hits his hands its usually his. he just doesnt get there often enough for me

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sPxeIzAzTo

good player but not a first round pick in my book

Brown Leader
02-26-2012, 12:46 AM
Scout's quotes 2012: Quick quotes on 50+ prospects (http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/draft-outlook-es4aae2-140451293.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter)

Some of the more entertaining ones...

Andrew Luck*, QB, Stanford: 6-4, 234. "He's the best I've done (scouted)," said one scout with almost two decades of experience in personnel. "He's got it all and can do it all. He has no flaws. Smart. Winner. Productive. Decisions. Runs the offense. Got nobody playing with him. The receivers were 5-9 and run 4.8. The defense has no athletes on it. He carried that team." Three-year starter with an NFL passer rating of 111.9. "He is a Matt Ryan-type player," another scout said. "He can't carry the team on his shoulders, but he's a really good manager. His arm isn't even close to Aaron Rodgers' and he doesn't have Aaron's feet. He's smart, competitive, tough. His teammates love him. The media has put so much pressure on this kid. It's unbelievable. They've basically anointed him Jesus Christ."
Robert Griffin*, QB, Baylor: 6-2˝, 223. "He's phenomenal," one scout said. "He's going to need technique work and fundamentals. I have no problem about that. But you cannot lose the fact that he's got feet, touch downfield with accuracy, a strong arm. He's charismatic and smart as (expletive)." Played and started all four years, but had his '09 season cut short by a knee injury requiring reconstructive surgery. Finished with an NFL passer rating of 110.1. "He cannot play quarterback," another scout said. "He's just running around winging it. He has no idea how to play quarterback. He's got no vision. He's got no accuracy. No touch. Anything you look for in an NFL quarterback, he doesn't have it. You want him to run around and throw the ball and just keep running, he can do that. He's (Michael) Vick, but not as good a thrower."
Quinton Coples, DE, North Carolina: 6-5˝, 284. Talented and versatile enough to play any D-line position in any scheme. "At the Senior Bowl nobody could (expletive) block him," one scout said. "He's such a smooth, fluid-moving guy. Sometimes it comes so easy to him, maybe he gets bored. He can do anything he wants." Production and effort appeared to wane as a senior. Labeled a "complete underachiever" in 2011 by another scout. "You want to like him, but I don't think he plays the run real well," a third scout said. "He will go in the first, but he scares me. There's a lot of things that I don't trust about those (North Carolina) guys."
Morris Claiborne*, CB, Louisiana State: 6-0, 185. Seldom played as a true freshman, then intercepted five passes opposite Patrick Peterson in 2010 and picked six more in '11. "I think he's a good player but, man, I know a lot of top-10 corners that were better than him," one scout said. "I don't think he'll be a flop. He's got excellent ball skills and good speed. He's a solid cornerback in the NFL." Peterson's exceptional work on returns puts him above Claiborne. "He's athletic as hell," another scout said. "Sudden. Fast. Will hit."
Dre Kirkpatrick*, CB, Alabama: 6-2˝, 190. Another two-year starter with three interceptions. "He's the toughest of all the corners coming out this year," one scout said. "Looks like he can run." Was arrested for marijuana possession in January, but the charge was dropped. "He's going to (expletive) you off because he's such a freelancer," another scout said. "That's kind of his persona. To do that you'd better be Deion Sanders. Claiborne's upside isn't as big as Kirkpatrick's. Claiborne is more well-rounded."
Courtney Upshaw, OLB, Alabama: 6-1˝, 272. Projects as an OLB in a 3-4 or a strong-side LB in a 4-3. "The only reason Upshaw could go ahead of Ingram is because Upshaw actually played up and down and Ingram played all over the place," one scout said. "I don't think Upshaw was really outstanding in the Senior Bowl. I thought he was just ordinary. He's very physical, but he gets cut a lot. That's because he's stiff." Two-year starter with 16˝ sacks. "(People) think he's Cornelius Bennett and he's not," another scout said. "He's a good, tough, nasty college football player that I think will get blocked a lot in the NFL." Scored just 9 on the 50-question Wonderlic intelligence test. "He's just a tough (expletive)," a third scout said. "He's really not a burn the edge guy. He is not fast. He's built like a fire hydrant. Maybe a 3-4 team will take him in the first."
Mike Adams, T, Ohio State: 6-7, 323. Played just nine games his first two seasons because of injuries and then sat out first five games of 2011 on an NCAA suspension. "He has first-round ability, but I don't trust him," one scout said. "He's got talent and is immense, but he really isn't strong." Gargantuan hands (11 inches). "He played left tackle and can be a right tackle," another scout said. "He actually can play guard. He's got upside." Scouts have major reservations about his character.
Alameda Ta'amu, NT, Washington: 6-2˝, 348. Made himself a lot of money with a terrific week at the Senior Bowl. "You can't single-block him," one scout said. "He's athletic for his size." Started 42 of 50 games, finishing with 7˝ sacks. "He's very much like Paul Soliai of the Dolphins," another scout said. "He is a true space-eater. He didn't play like that (the Senior Bowl) all year. He did have a good Senior Bowl, he really did. He's got a big (expletive) and great big thick thighs on him."
Stephon Gilmore*, CB, South Carolina: 6-1, 195. Started all 39 games of his three-year career, intercepting eight passes. "He looks good," one scout said. "Wish he was a little better tackler. I got a few questions about him, but I'd take him over Jenkins without even a blink." Mentored by Sheldon Brown, a cornerback for Philadelphia and Cleveland. "Good size, very good athlete and can cover," another scout said. "He didn't have a great year this year, but he's a definite second if not first round."

Caulibflower
02-26-2012, 01:12 AM
"He cannot play quarterback," another scout said. "He's just running around winging it. He has no idea how to play quarterback. He's got no vision. He's got no accuracy. No touch. Anything you look for in an NFL quarterback, he doesn't have it. You want him to run around and throw the ball and just keep running, he can do that. He's (Michael) Vick, but not as good a thrower."

ZING!!!

holt_bruce81
02-26-2012, 01:14 AM
"He cannot play quarterback," another scout said. "He's just running around winging it. He has no idea how to play quarterback. He's got no vision. He's got no accuracy. No touch. Anything you look for in an NFL quarterback, he doesn't have it. You want him to run around and throw the ball and just keep running, he can do that. He's (Michael) Vick, but not as good a thrower."

ZING!!!


No touch? what?

FUNBUNCHER
02-26-2012, 01:27 AM
No offense, but the scout knocking Grif sounds like a pure idiot. He sounds 13 years old.
'Anything you look for in a quarterback, he doesn't have it'. LOL. Wow.

I don't think I've ever read such a negative assessment of any pro QB prospect expected to go high in the first round. Not even Jamarcus Russell.

I would LOVE to know what team he works for, but he's probably a freelancer.

Caulibflower
02-26-2012, 01:30 AM
No touch? what?

The thing is, to me, with all the stuff Griffin needs to do, it's like he can do it... sometimes. All the time. He's such a fantastic athlete his game film is *full* of him making these amazing plays... but then on some really ordinary ones he doesn't look very good. I'm realizing as I write this that it's the same thing I've written before about Tim Tebow. Griffin's a bit more polished and has better form, but they're in the same boat as guys who have such tremendous athletic ability that their talent allows them to complete spectacular plays, but they don't execute with consistency. The margin of error is so much larger in college, and both of these guys were playing with NFL talent around them. And Tebow never had a receiver like Kendall Wright. I just look at Griffin, and when I see him losing his focus in the pocket, or even just the way he throws... he looks like he's throwing darts... It just doesn't look like an NFL presence to me. I don't know what it is, exactly. The scout's much more specific than I'd be. But ultimately, I kinda do see him like a poor-man's Michael Vick without the character connotations. Spectacular athlete with a big arm, but you kinda get the impression he's at quarterback because while all the other athletes were being converted to wide receivers, coaches saw the arm and the athleticism and thought, "No, it'd be SICK if we kept this guy at quarterback." And it certainly was, in college, but the NFL is so much faster. The reason it worked for Cam Newton last year is because he's decisive. He's so confident, he just makes decisions and that confidence comes from having the athletic ability to play that way. But guys like Griffin and Vick sometimes seem like they're waiting too long for a play to happen. Same with Tebow. He's great in the 4th quarter because the pressure is on - he HAS to throw it quickly. He HAS to make up his mind in a split second whether to run or throw. But that's what I see with Griffin. He just plays like an athlete out there, and I know he looks more like a traditional quarterback than either Tebow or Newton, but I'm just not sold, and I don't think I will be. He's all the way up to #2 overall now. That's reaaaaally high. I'm not really arguing about the value. There's no question a lot of people think really highly of him. But I know there's a fair contingent of others in the draft community, who for some reason or other, look at his game and leave it kinda scratching their neck, saying, "Yeah... that was a great game. But I don't know what it is... Don't quite see it."

Anyways. I am profoundly lukewarm about Griffin. He's a guy I see as a boom-or-bust prospect, and I think maybe people are used to associating that label with prospects who are character concerns, although that's not the case with Griffin. I think there is still plenty of room for a great guy and terrific athlete to find success elusive, and Griffin is the guy who's making me think that way.

mqtirishfan
02-26-2012, 01:33 AM
Did a scout bump his head and confuse Griffin with Jordan Jefferson?

FUNBUNCHER
02-26-2012, 01:42 AM
All of Tebow's starting WRs are in the NFL, and how can you forget Percy Harvin??

Baylor's offensive talent wasn't in the same solar system as UF.

I think people are confusing Grif sitting back waiting for plays to open up 40 yards downfield with him being indecisive. RGIII was almost always looking for that home run throw and only looked intermediate when the pocket was collapsing or the WR was blanketed. In the NFL I believe his OC is going to communicate to him the importance of picking up first downs and not always looking to score on every pass.

We have a difference of opinion on Griffin because I see a guy who's going to be this generation's Steve Young. His negatives to me are negligible.
Grif was rarely off target on any pass he threw and his accuracy in general, not just downfield, IMO is uncanny.

I never got the impression he was playing street football when the ball was snapped.

Caulibflower
02-26-2012, 01:55 AM
All of Tebow's starting WRs are in the NFL, and how can you forget Percy Harvin??

Baylor's offensive talent wasn't in the same solar system as UF.

Percy Harvin was half-running back and was drafted to be that kind of player and a return man. He wasn't inflating Tebow's passing stats. Louis Murphy is a solid player who hasn't stood out past his rookie year. Aaron Hernandez is a good TE, but benefits greatly from playing in one the most creative offenses in the NFL, and from being the second TE on a team who already has the best TE in the NFL; he's a matchup receiver who's gets matched up as a second priority. He's going to make a lot of plays in that offense, but he's a guy who's offense makes him far more than he makes his offense.

On the other hand, Griffin is throwing to a wideout who might be picked in the top-10, and unlike Harvin, is going to be drafted on his abilities as a pure wideout. And while we're talking about the players who surrounded them, let's not forget the difference in the quality of defenses they went up against.

ChiFan24
02-26-2012, 03:00 AM
My opinion of RG3 is in no way fully formed, but I can kind of see what that second scout is saying. It's hard to translate what RG3 does on tape to an NFL field. If nothing else, I can say that I liked Cam Newton a lot better. I saw him doing things in college that I could easily envision him doing in the NFL. But maybe that's just me.

descendency
02-26-2012, 04:48 AM
Scouts are paid as much to come up with reasons "not to draft this guy" than anything else. Anybody who has watched a college football game in the past year can tell you that Cam Newton is talented, that doesn't take much in the way of critical analysis. It's a symptom of the "draft as entertainment" business that we try to make the best of everybody, since that way we drum up excitement and we can get people to come on our shows if we've been nice to them. Scouts have no reason to be nice, in fact they probably shouldn't be nice since most of the 255 guys drafted anyway won't even manage to be average.

Scouts are paid to paint as accurate of a picture of a person as possible and it is up to the GM to decide how to rank them.

phlysac
02-26-2012, 10:47 AM
Andrew Luck*, QB, Stanford: 6-4, 234. "He's the best I've done (scouted)," said one scout with almost two decades of experience in personnel. "He's got it all and can do it all. He has no flaws. Smart. Winner. Productive. Decisions. Runs the offense. Got nobody playing with him. The receivers were 5-9 and run 4.8.
Or over 6' and run a 4.31

Leon Sandcastle
02-26-2012, 11:03 AM
Or over 6' and run a 4.31

LOL! #thingsscoutssay

McGahee
02-26-2012, 11:16 AM
Scout's quotes 2012: Courtney Upshaw, OLB, Alabama: 6-1˝, 272. Projects as an OLB in a 3-4 or a strong-side LB in a 4-3. "The only reason Upshaw could go ahead of Ingram is because Upshaw actually played up and down and Ingram played all over the place," one scout said. "I don't think Upshaw was really outstanding in the Senior Bowl. I thought he was just ordinary. He's very physical, but he gets cut a lot. That's because he's stiff." Two-year starter with 16˝ sacks. "(People) think he's Cornelius Bennett and he's not," another scout said. "He's a good, tough, nasty college football player that I think will get blocked a lot in the NFL." Scored just 9 on the 50-question Wonderlic intelligence test. "He's just a tough (expletive)," a third scout said. "He's really not a burn the edge guy. He is not fast. He's built like a fire hydrant. Maybe a 3-4 team will take him in the first."

Damn, Upshaw

gpngc
02-26-2012, 11:24 AM
Fletcher Cox*, DT, Mississippi State: 6-4, 298. Started two of his three seasons, finishing with 8˝ sacks. "He's probably a pure 4-3 DT who can give you reps at DE," one scout said. "He's got the athletic ability to be a better pass rusher in the future than his numbers have indicated so far." Nicknamed "The Beast." Said another scout: "Guy can run all day. He's explosive, strong hands, good hips. He's country. He's hard. He looooves football."

Cox is probably my favorite front-seven prospect.

And this article is a must-read. Awesome, awesome stuff. Really gives you some insight into the character of some guys and how much emphasis the scouts place on personality.

And the CB notes were very helpful - these guys have the all-11 film that we don't.

I was in agreement with most of the DL and LB quotes, except I like Upshaw more than the scouts they quoted.

SenorGato
02-26-2012, 12:34 PM
Vinny Curry, DE-OLB, Marshall: 6-3, 266.Three-year starter with 26˝ sacks. "Very, very talented football player," one scout said. "He may have a chance to stand up and be an outside linebacker. He's tough. The guy plays hard." Moved around rather well at the Senior Bowl when the coaches gave him a chance to play standing up.

Man I hope Curry runs something stupid like a 4.5 tomorrow...everybody likes him and nobody wants to throw him in the first round.

Crazy_Chris
02-26-2012, 12:58 PM
Matt Kalil*, T, Southern California: 6-6˝, 306. Two-year starter at LT. "He could be the second or third pick in the draft," one scout said. "He is very technically sound. Very athletic. He will need a little bit of strength in his lower body. He's an effortless pass blocker. He's not going to blow you away with power, but he's so good at just gaining position with quickness and just sustaining." His brother, Ryan, played for the Trojans and now plays for Carolina, where he is the NFL's highest-paid center. "I think he's overrated," another scout said. "I felt the same way about Sam Baker when he came out of there, too. He's like (Bryan) Bulaga but not as good. Bulaga is tough and strong and all that. This guy is not even strong. I don't know what the deal is with all these people saying how great he is."


This quote and the one about RG3 having nothing you look for in a QB gave me a good laugh.

lowlife
02-26-2012, 01:16 PM
I bet it's the same guy saying all the neg ****. The Russian judge, if you will.

PossibleCabbage
02-26-2012, 01:29 PM
I would LOVE to know what team he works for, but he's probably a freelancer.

In terms of "guys with impeccable sources" in the draft business your two bets are pretty much Gil Brandt and Bob McGinn. I have no doubt that he found an actual NFL scout who's down on Griffin. I mean, actual NFL scouts are wrong all the time, so it's not surprising when you find one who hates or loves a given prospect.

I mean, teams employ a bunch of scouts, and because a bunch of different perspectives are appreciated you tend to select for people predisposed to strong opinions.

Also, the guy praising Bulaga is hilarious in retrospect considering the number of quotes from scouts that McGinn dredged in 2010 up just ripping Bulaga.

dannyz
02-26-2012, 01:36 PM
This quote and the one about RG3 having nothing you look for in a QB gave me a good laugh.

Yeah plus the one about Andrew Luck, I think he got him confused with Tim Tebow on that one.

PossibleCabbage
02-26-2012, 01:47 PM
I was amused by:

On Coples: "He will go in the first, but he scares me. There's a lot of things that I don't trust about those (North Carolina) guys."

On Zach Brown: "Can run like the wind. Underachiever. Those guys shut it down this year. Those guys are treated with kid gloves down there."

On Brandon Thompson: "Those Clemson guys don't translate to the NFL very good,... They just don't play well in the NFL."

On Andre Branch: "Clemson always (expletive) me up,... I don't trust those guys there."

I wonder how many different people supplied these quotes.

gpngc
02-26-2012, 01:48 PM
LOL^

The funniest thing is that all of that is true. Historically, Clemson and NC guys are ******* scary.

SchizophrenicBatman
02-26-2012, 02:24 PM
unc has a ton of busts but they at least have had nicks and peppers (although peppers being a lazy m fer is pretty consistent with their rep)

clemson has brian dawkins...and...uh...jacoby ford?

SenorGato
02-26-2012, 02:40 PM
unc has a ton of busts but they at least have had nicks and peppers (although peppers being a lazy m fer is pretty consistent with their rep)

clemson has brian dawkins...and...uh...jacoby ford?

If I was a GM you couldn't pay me to take Clemson player.

That said, Andre Branch isnt very liked there because he's a meany poo head or something. So I actually like him better than your typical Clemson player.

dunagan15
02-26-2012, 02:54 PM
If I was a GM you couldn't pay me to take Clemson player.

That said, Andre Branch isnt very liked there because he's a meany poo head or something. So I actually like him better than your typical Clemson player.

Sammy may soon put that too rest for a year at least

dhp318
02-26-2012, 03:21 PM
Or over 6' and run a 4.31

owusu barely played because of concussion issues. But you knew that, didn't you?

phlysac
02-27-2012, 12:07 AM
owusu barely played because of concussion issues. But you knew that, didn't you?

Chris Owusu played in 28 of Andrew Luck's 38 games. Most assuredly, Andrew Luck didn't have the most amount of explosive offensive athletes of any BCS QB, but the thought that he didn't have hardly any support from his teammates is more than a bit short-sighted.

Of course he didn't have any "top" WR talent, but he did have the help of players like Toby Gerhart, Doug Baldwin, Coby Fleener, David DeCastro, Johnathan Martin, etc, to help him succeed. It also didn't hurt that he had the efficient offensive philosophy that Harbaugh brought with him and left behind.

descendency
02-27-2012, 06:23 AM
Or over 6' and run a 4.31

Exactly. That D isn't great, but the offense is definitely better than that.

Two good TEs, Two elite OL, 1-2 very good WRs, and a running game... that's all you can basically ask for a good QB.

NY+Giants=NYG
02-27-2012, 11:29 AM
If Austin's special feet can be special for us, next to the other talent, then I will be a happy guy for a while. He hasn't played in so long though. Hopefully, he can stay healthy and develop!

keylime_5
02-27-2012, 11:35 AM
If I was a GM you couldn't pay me to take Clemson player.

That said, Andre Branch isnt very liked there because he's a meany poo head or something. So I actually like him better than your typical Clemson player.

you guys can pass on Sammy Watkins, I'll gladly take him. He is the epitome of can't miss.

bored of education
02-28-2012, 08:03 PM
Alameda Ta'amu, NT, Washington: 6-2˝, 348. Made himself a lot of money with a terrific week at the Senior Bowl. "You can't single-block him," one scout said. "He's athletic for his size." Started 42 of 50 games, finishing with 7˝ sacks. "He's very much like Paul Soliai of the Dolphins," another scout said. "He is a true space-eater. He didn't play like that (the Senior Bowl) all year. He did have a good Senior Bowl, he really did. He's got a big (expletive) and great big thick thighs on him."


I want Ta'Amu in KC if they don't get Poe since he has a big *****

PossibleCabbage
02-28-2012, 08:32 PM
Alameda Ta'amu, NT, Washington: 6-2˝, 348. Made himself a lot of money with a terrific week at the Senior Bowl. "You can't single-block him," one scout said. "He's athletic for his size." Started 42 of 50 games, finishing with 7˝ sacks. "He's very much like Paul Soliai of the Dolphins," another scout said. "He is a true space-eater. He didn't play like that (the Senior Bowl) all year. He did have a good Senior Bowl, he really did. He's got a big (expletive) and great big thick thighs on him."


I want Ta'Amu in KC if they don't get Poe since he has a big *****

I really hope the scout is talking about his *** and not his ****, since I don't really want to know why a scout would know about the latter or feel compelled to report on it to Bob McGinn.

phlysac
02-28-2012, 08:41 PM
Is Shaun Smith scouting for the Chiefs? He has techniques to determine size.

:P

edgrenade
02-28-2012, 11:20 PM
Did a scout bump his head and confuse Griffin with Jordan Jefferson?

^^^this ^^^

Brown Leader
03-05-2012, 09:40 AM
Per PFT's "what scouts are saying." Quoted sometime after Senior week practices but before the combine. Seems like at least two different scouts. Interesting ones...

QB Andrew Luck - " is not special. He's missing something and it's hard to put your finger on it exactly - I've talked to other GMs around the league, and there is no one out there who thinks this guy is Peyton Manning or John Elway. A winner, yes. A game changer, no. Peyton is special now-he can carry a team by himself-he's proven that. He turns average players into pro bowlers"

QB Brock Osweiler - " the big guy at ASU has a lot of talent to work with now. He's not ready but he has tools - sick size, athletic ability, and he's a passer, not a thrower. The senior class is gross."

QB Ryan Tannehill - "What you have to keep in mind when you're looking at Tannehill - Mike Sherman's offense is not very good. He has plenty of arm talent. He's athletic, he can move around, he's got a ton of upside. If you have time to sit him, you can hit big in a few years."

RB Lamar Miller - " did not practice a lot. He wore a harness all year on his shoulder. He'd turn on contact - I don't question his toughness playing through the injury. He played hurt. He's not a power back but he'll hit it up in there.'

RB Bernard Pierce - " was really disappointing. He is not tough at all through the tackles. He loves to bounce runs to the outside. He has an NFL body and looks the part, but he has to find his heart if he wants to play here. I don't know if he will. Someone will get enamored with him though."

OT Mike Adams - " put on a clinic against Illinois' Whitney Mercilus"

OT Jonathan Martin - " I don't like him. He's soft. I don't think he is the athlete he is made out to be. He's going to be drafted in the first round - I would take him in the 4th. I would like to play against him. I hope he comes in our division."

OT Jeff Allen - " I was not expecting to see a player when I put on the Illinois tape, but # 71 impressed me. He has sweet feet, plays hard, is smart and productive as hell.

OG Kevin Zeitler - " I love him. I think he's a first round, can't miss guy. He is a OG only though" " I would not take him in the first, but someone will take him there."

OG Adam Gettis - "Throw on the game of him against Penn State and watch how he plays against Devon Still. He's going to shoot up. Physically, he is still underdeveloped. He came in at 220lbs and he played close to 280lbs. He's still got another 10 to 15 to add, but he's got starter potential."

DT Devon Still - " is a pretender. He is a project to me. He plays high. He gets knocked around. He has some initial quickness, but he's not a tough, explosive finisher. Someone is going to get their feelings hurt drafting him in the first round. I don't know how you play with guys who get hammered inside. I know we can't. "

LB Mychal Kendricks - " is the best senior we have at California. You wish he were taller but he's a good player. He'll play a long time in this league."

LB Donta Hightower - " If he played as hard as Upshaw he would be a wrecking ball. The games I watched, he didn't do anything. With his size and ability, I expected to see a lot better. "

LB Vontaze Burfict - " I did not like him at all. He's extremely undisciplined. He has a soft, fleshy body. He's not tough. I really question his instincts. He fills the wrong holes. He makes flash plays but does not make consistent plays. He's immature, off base and too emotional. A positional coach will be dog cussing the scouts for bringing him in."

LB Courtney Upshaw - " I love him. He may be my favorite player this year. Other scouts are killing him because he's short. I say, ok, let him go to Pittsburgh and turn into a pro bowler. "

CB Josh Norman - " will go in the second round just off the Shrine week. Granted, he was cheating the drill and squatting on routes, but he picked off about six passes during the week. He is talented."

CB Morris Claiborne - " His cover skills are a rare commodity. I wish he were a little more physical, but he has few holes in his game. "

CB Chase Minnifield - " I don't think he can play. He's not a very good athlete. I don't like him at all."

DB Trumaine Johnson - " He's really talented. He might be the best pure talent. He can do whatever you want. He's better than Ravens' Jimmy Smith. He could go in the first. It would take big balls, but he could. "

DB Phillip Thomas - " I was not a fan of him. He is a little, run around safety. I thought he was fake tough - pile jumping. He plays small. "

LonghornsLegend
03-05-2012, 01:06 PM
I love reading these every year, but always seems like 1 or 2 have to go overboard in 1 direction to be as extreme as possible to draw attention to it. Andrew Luck carried that Stanford offense, but now he's just a guy a long for the ride? I guess he thought he played for USC and had 5* recruits and ridiculous athletes all over the field to make plays for him.

gpngc
03-05-2012, 01:13 PM
Per PFT's "what scouts are saying." Quoted sometime after Senior week practices but before the combine. Seems like at least two different scouts. Interesting ones...

Kendricks..........................

ChiFan24
03-05-2012, 03:10 PM
Per PFT's "what scouts are saying." Quoted sometime after Senior week practices but before the combine. Seems like at least two different scouts. Interesting ones...

Found myself agreeing with A LOT of this, especially after the QB's and RB's. The stuff on Devon Still is good.

Caulibflower
03-05-2012, 03:53 PM
Found myself agreeing with A LOT of this, especially after the QB's and RB's. The stuff on Devon Still is good.

Agree. Nice to see my thoughts on Tannehill and Luck being reflected by professional opinion. Bernard Pierce is a guy I've really wanted to like, but unfortunately I think I have to say I am ultimately finding myself falling in line with opinions like his; even against lower competition (think Wyoming) Pierce just doesn't really stand out. You've got a 220-lb back with that 4.50 speed going up against Wyoming and putting up 130 yards or whatever, and that sounds legit, but then you watch him and he doesn't look that physical, or fast, or anything - he's just a big slider, putting together a bunch of 3-6 yard runs. You want to see more explosion that that, and Pierce just doesn't look either explosive or physical enough to be an NFL runner. And then he basically says what I've been saying about Lamar Miller - he looks like an NFL running back, he's got the speed, but I question his physicality. He mentioned he'd been wearing some kind of shoulder sling this past year? I didn't know that, but I did notice what the scout was saying; that Miller showed a little propensity for turning into contact rather than squaring up. That's what was making me say things in other threads along the lines of, "I don't see Miller as the guy you want to give it to on 3rd and 3." He looks like a guy who's capable of ripping off big runs, but I haven't seen what I need to see in order to be confident that Miller can be a physical force from the RB position. It's great to be fast, but when I'm drafting a running back high, they need to be able to knock tacklers back a yard or two pretty consistently, and that's something Miller's never shown me. The only way I give a runner a pass on that is if they have Chris Johnson speed. Hell, I said CJ Spiller was going to be a bust if he got drafted by a team that expected him to be a primary running back. I've just never been on the Lamar Miller bandwagon, triangle numbers aside. Hard to hate a 5'11"/212/4.40 guy, but he's a mid-second/third round guy to me. Not a mid-late first as quite a few people are suggesting.

bored of education
03-05-2012, 06:11 PM
Tony Pauline has heard from pro scouts that some teams have Poe as number 3 overall on there boards

ChiFan24
03-06-2012, 05:52 PM
Tony Pauline has heard from pro scouts that some teams have Poe as number 3 overall on there boards

He's officially a top 11 lock in my book, and more likely top 9.

CowboysBeastMode
03-17-2012, 12:11 PM
Agree. Nice to see my thoughts on Tannehill and Luck being reflected by professional opinion. Bernard Pierce is a guy I've really wanted to like, but unfortunately I think I have to say I am ultimately finding myself falling in line with opinions like his; even against lower competition (think Wyoming) Pierce just doesn't really stand out. You've got a 220-lb back with that 4.50 speed going up against Wyoming and putting up 130 yards or whatever, and that sounds legit, but then you watch him and he doesn't look that physical, or fast, or anything - he's just a big slider, putting together a bunch of 3-6 yard runs. You want to see more explosion that that, and Pierce just doesn't look either explosive or physical enough to be an NFL runner. And then he basically says what I've been saying about Lamar Miller - he looks like an NFL running back, he's got the speed, but I question his physicality. He mentioned he'd been wearing some kind of shoulder sling this past year? I didn't know that, but I did notice what the scout was saying; that Miller showed a little propensity for turning into contact rather than squaring up. That's what was making me say things in other threads along the lines of, "I don't see Miller as the guy you want to give it to on 3rd and 3." He looks like a guy who's capable of ripping off big runs, but I haven't seen what I need to see in order to be confident that Miller can be a physical force from the RB position. It's great to be fast, but when I'm drafting a running back high, they need to be able to knock tacklers back a yard or two pretty consistently, and that's something Miller's never shown me. The only way I give a runner a pass on that is if they have Chris Johnson speed. Hell, I said CJ Spiller was going to be a bust if he got drafted by a team that expected him to be a primary running back. I've just never been on the Lamar Miller bandwagon, triangle numbers aside. Hard to hate a 5'11"/212/4.40 guy, but he's a mid-second/third round guy to me. Not a mid-late first as quite a few people are suggesting.lamar miller=felix jones

Brown Leader
03-18-2012, 05:08 PM
@mod. What was the problem with the last quotes posted? Thought it was clear it was from the same source as the others. Or am I missing something?

GaMeTiMe
03-19-2012, 02:18 AM
Love these mostly because of the wide-ranging opinions on some guys. I've said this before, I have no idea where Courtney Upshaw go within the first 2 rounds and the quotes from the scouts only cloud that further. I'm just realizing this now, but he's probably my biggest boom-or-bust player in this class. I can see him as a solid player for many years (even without being an annual Pro Bowler) or just not finding a position wherever he gets drafted and flaming out despite maintaining his motor and work ethic, maybe latching on with a different team+scheme only because of those qualities.

Now that I'm thinking about it, I'd love to hear some of these scouts talk about their GMs, even if former

He just wouldn't [expletive] listen. We told him (player) was [expletive]. Some guys even got fired for being so persistent about not taking him, and he [expletive] took him

Miaoww
04-09-2012, 08:01 PM
He's officially a top 11 lock in my book, and more likely top 9.

God I hope not.

holt_bruce81
04-09-2012, 08:26 PM
Poe being #3 on some teams big boards is abssolutely ********.

phlysac
04-09-2012, 09:20 PM
Poe being #3 is absolute proof that some GMs seem to care more about Combine measurables than game tape.

Bills2083
04-13-2012, 10:12 AM
Here's some more quotes from scouts (through PFW)

http://www.profootballweekly.com/2012/04/11/insider-upshaw-not-first-round-pick

• "The more Courtney Upshaw talked (in the interview process), the more I got scared. He has a lot of distractions in his life. There are a lot of concerns there. We need an edge guy, but we wouldn't touch him in the first (round). I'd have hesitations in the second where we're picking, after hearing him talk about grabbing his girlfriend by the hair."

• "You can't take away (Baylor WR Kendall) Wright's production. He is falling (in the draft), but he's still a playmaker."

• "(Wisconsin OG Kevin) Zeitler struggles in pass pro a little bit. The program is known for its run blocking. That’s their flavor of the day. He has 31-inch arms and gets out of sorts in pass protection."

• "(Former LSU CB) Patrick Peterson had one unique quality — he could fly. That is why he went where he did. He has been more productive as a punt returner than he has been as a corner. He won games as a returner. (Morris) Claiborne is not as fast. I worry about LSU skill guys — look at the corners and safeties and receivers that have come out of the program. How many have been free of issues coming out?"

• "(Iowa OLT) Riley Reiff is a guard all the way. He is a tough, grinding guard — the same as (Ravens All-Pro and former Hawkeye Marshal) Yanda. That’s what I think he is."

• "Everyone says (South Carolina CB) Stephon Gilmore is rising after his workout. That is what I am hearing on the street. He is a big corner, and everyone is going big now. The value is in the late first. I’ve heard teams talking about him in the top 10."

• "(Washington RB Chris) Polk was productive on a (bad) team, but he gained weight this year and lost some speed and did not have any burst. He was coming off knee surgery. I’m not sure if he ever had explosive speed, to be honest. We have him in the fifth (round)."

• "(South Carolina WR) Alshon Jeffery can't run a lick. Show me the tape where he separates with speed or quickness."

• "I hope that big sucker (Alabama RB Trent Richardson) does not come to our division. He's a man's man. I don't want to see him twice a year."

K Train
04-13-2012, 10:48 AM
"(Iowa OLT) Riley Reiff is a guard all the way. He is a tough, grinding guard — the same as (Ravens All-Pro and former Hawkeye Marshal) Yanda. That’s what I think he is."

guard all the way? not really

killxswitch
04-13-2012, 11:00 AM
These are neat but damn some of these scouts sound like complete idiots.

FUNBUNCHER
04-13-2012, 11:39 AM
LOL!

Still fun to get an insider's opinion with professional experience in selecting players.
It's one thing to have an opinion about a prospect like all of us have, it's an entirely different reality when you have to put your name and your owner's checkbook behind a selection.

If you put Alshon Jeffery across from someone like Desean Jackson or Mike Wallace, I think he could be an impact player in the pros. But he's not a consistent downfield threat in the NFL.

descendency
04-13-2012, 11:40 AM
Poe being #3 is absolute proof that some GMs seem to care more about Combine measurables than game tape.

All teams are more concerned about projection to the NFL than what they did in college and high school.

-------------------

99% sure that scout is from Jacksonville.

FUNBUNCHER
04-13-2012, 12:05 PM
All teams are more concerned about projection to the NFL than what they did in college and high school.

-------------------

99% sure that scout is from Jacksonville.

Poe's inability to dominate C-USA doesn't bother you??
Compare that to Dareus/Suh/Fairley who flashed elite level ability against BCS schools several times a game, and many times looked like the best player on the field.

If Fairley/Suh/Dareus had Poe's game film playing in the Big 12 and SEC, none of them would have been considered top 5 overall prospects.

So how does a guy who's bigger, stronger and faster than ALL OF THEM with worse game film in the lowest level D1 football get a grade of a top 5-10 prospect??

If people want to put Poe in the first round because of his measurables and potential upside, I'm cool with that.

But top 5 for Poe IMO doesn't make much sense.

Asteinebach
04-13-2012, 12:11 PM
I don't know if C-USA is the lowest level of D-1. And I think in response to your question (how does he get a top 5-10 grade?), the answer is simple. Haloti Ngata. Isaac Sopoaga. He's a NT prospect in a league that doesn't believe it's terribly hard to be successful at the position. His physical prowess in a 3-4 defense is all he really needs to eat up blockers, which is his sole responsibility. And as simple as his job may be, it's of critical importance to the rest of the defense.

duesouth
04-13-2012, 12:17 PM
"(Wisconsin OG Kevin) Zeitler struggles in pass pro a little bit. The program is known for its run blocking. That’s their flavor of the day. He has 31-inch arms and gets out of sorts in pass protection."

Not to be picky - but Zeitler has 32.75" arms - slightly longer than DeCastro.

FUNBUNCHER
04-13-2012, 12:35 PM
I don't know if C-USA is the lowest level of D-1. And I think in response to your question (how does he get a top 5-10 grade?), the answer is simple. Haloti Ngata. Isaac Sopoaga. He's a NT prospect in a league that doesn't believe it's terribly hard to be successful at the position. His physical prowess in a 3-4 defense is all he really needs to eat up blockers, which is his sole responsibility. And as simple as his job may be, it's of critical importance to the rest of the defense.

Top 10 is a little high IMO to take a 34 NT. Not off the wall range for Poe to go, but I would think his best value at that position is mid 20s and further down.

Asteinebach
04-13-2012, 12:40 PM
Top 10 is a little high IMO to take a 34 NT. Not off the wall range for Poe to go, but I would think his best value at that position is mid 20s and further down.

The concept of value is a direct reflection of need. If there's a 2 gap system that really needs to add a true NT as one of the finishing touches on an already decent defense, the value of a guy like Dontari Poe becomes much better in the 10-20 range. Top ten, I'd have a hard time picking NT. And I think the only thing that would substantiate that high a pick for a NT is if he's got some legitimate pass-rushing abilities as well. Which...Poe ran what, 4.98?

I'm not saying he's worth a top 10 pick, but to the right suitor, maybe.

PossibleCabbage
04-13-2012, 03:01 PM
These are neat but damn some of these scouts sound like complete idiots.

Scouts are paid to be opinionated. They tend to hate players a lot more frequently than either fans or media members. It's jarring when you're used to the more friendly approach that draftniks employ, but it does make a certain sort of sense.

I mean, if you've got a scout on your payroll who is an excellent judge of everything that is wrong with every player, that guy's really useful.

killxswitch
04-13-2012, 03:10 PM
Scouts are paid to be opinionated. They tend to hate players a lot more frequently than either fans or media members. It's jarring when you're used to the more friendly approach that draftniks employ, but it does make a certain sort of sense.

I mean, if you've got a scout on your payroll who is an excellent judge of everything that is wrong with every player, that guy's really useful.

I can see that. However I also see some really outlandish, ridiculous statements like "RG3 can't do any of the things an NFL QB needs to do". There's being critical and then there's being over-the-top.

descendency
04-13-2012, 04:08 PM
Poe's inability to dominate C-USA doesn't bother you??

The question isn't "does it bother me" but "does it bother me enough to ignore that he has what I need in a NT?" Obviously it would bother me, but I could easily attribute that to coaching. Without having Memphis film, it's hard to assess that.

stlouisfan37
04-13-2012, 04:34 PM
you guys can pass on Sammy Watkins, I'll gladly take him. He is the epitome of can't miss.

I agree. I think he has it all, and he's a good kid. Not only does he have the skill set, athleticism, explosion...but he just flat out plays. Kind of goes at it with the aproach of "why not right now?"

I think in a couple years he will be looked at as the best WR prospect in a long time. I almost hope we still need a WR when the time comes:-)

ConnSKINS26
04-18-2012, 12:51 PM
Don't have a source, but saw this on another message board. Quotes from Front Office officials and scouts:

• “(USC OLT) Matt Kalil is a good, solid player, but tell me who the next-best left tackle is. Cordy Glenn is a guard for me. (Ohio State’s) Mike Adams is soft and doesn’t train. Riley Reiff has everything you want — he’s just not a very good foot athlete. The guy with left tackle feet is (Oklahoma’s) Donald Stephenson. He doesn’t work and doesn’t lift and had to sit out a season for his (issues). There is a big 'miss' factor there with him, but on his talent alone, he could play at a high level.”

• “You don’t expect nose tackles to be good pass rushers, but (Washington’s) Alameda Ta’amu can really push the pocket. You’d like him to refine his hand placement and be more consistent, but he is strong, and he knocks (blockers) off the ball as well as anyone in the draft. He’ll be a good player in the league.”

• “(Iowa State OT) Kelechi Osemele is intelligent and might be able to convince a coach for 2-3 days at an all-star game that he is a good guy, but when you are around him too long, you realize he is full of it. I think he’ll be a right tackle in the league, not a left.”

• “I think (Mississippi OT) Bobby Massie will go somewhere in the top 50. He’s a right tackle only, for me. Would you be excited to pull his card off the board? I wouldn’t be. But I think he will be a starter and, if he picks it up mentally and works at it, will be fairly solid. You can’t lose sight of the fact that almost every team is down offensive linemen. There just are not enough of them.”

• “(Michigan State’s) Edwin Baker looked good at his pro day. I think he’ll go in the fourth round. I would not take him there — I wouldn’t. I think he is a role player in the NFL. He had a better workout than he played. I just think the way the NFL is now, he will play and be in a rotation and has NFL qualities. You see his speed on stretch plays, but he is not a very big guy. He was getting pushed for playing time — that’s why he came out.”

• “(Auburn OT) Brandon Mosley is a tough guy. He gets after it. He’s a good kid … but he’s always going to be limited by his stiffness. He’s not athletic enough to be a left tackle, and as a right tackle, it’s tough to play strong when your hips are so high. You'd like to get him in the fifth (round)."

• “When you evaluate (Georgia’s) Cordy Glenn at left tackle, you have to remember — he was out of shape and overweight. You have to go back to last year (2010) before the strength coaches came in to get a true read on him.”

• “I think (Oklahoma’s) Ronnell Lewis goes in the second, but to me, he’s a 'reach' guy. I wouldn’t touch him there, and he fits what we do.”

• “(Boise State RB) Doug Martin is a tough one to figure out if you look at this year vs. last year. In 2010, he looks like a surefire late first-rounder. If you watch 2011, there are games where he looks like nothing more than a free agent. I don’t see what everyone else is (seeing) on this year’s tape. If you get the player you see last year, you’d be pretty happy. If you get the 2011 version, you might be disappointed.”

• “(LSU DT) Michael Brockers is big, strong and athletic. He just does not get great push in the middle. … To me, he is bright-eyed and bushy-tailed. I liked his interview.”

tjsunstein
04-18-2012, 01:34 PM
Brockers was the only player that he didnt saybanything negative on. Most of those had a negative tone.

killxswitch
04-18-2012, 02:03 PM
Brockers was the only player that he didnt saybanything negative on. Most of those had a negative tone.

I don't trust scout/front office quotes this close to draft day. Lots of smokescreen ********.

essential
04-18-2012, 02:11 PM
Quotes are from:
http://www.profootballweekly.com/2012/04/17/insider-washington-nose-tackle-underrated

tjsunstein
04-18-2012, 02:22 PM
I don't trust scout/front office quotes this close to draft day. Lots of smokescreen ********.

Theyre talking players down too much. You can tell theyre throwing smokescreens up with the negatives they point out. Throwing out cons such as "doesnt train", "he is full of it", pointing out negatives in film two years ago in Gelnn's case. Some sound like legit concerns but those stuck out to me as unusual.