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View Full Version : NFL Combine 40's - Electronic or Hand Time?


Legend234
03-06-2011, 06:36 PM
It's hard to believe that they could be electronic because electronic times are typically about .2 slower than hand time so guys that are running 4.28 are really running 4.08 which is pretty crazy.

FUNBUNCHER
03-06-2011, 07:11 PM
Two tenths of second difference is huge, I don't think the discrepancy is that high.

You can click on/click off a stop watch in hundredths of a second, I'd say for someone skilled using a stopwatch, the difference between an electronic and hand time is no more than .05 seconds.

Two tenths of second difference is like arthritic.

Legend234
03-06-2011, 10:38 PM
so it is hand timed? I think the one that is a lot slower is thumb pressure where you lift your thumb off of a pad and it starts timing.

There needs to be some kind of objective timing method because its becoming so hard to compare speeds of people because of different ways of timing.

as a side note, One thing that bugs me is when basically every prospect says "i was expecting a faster time."

Caulibflower
03-06-2011, 10:59 PM
I'd expect that the people doing the timings know their stopwatches well enough to have their reaction time calibrated to the responsiveness of the button.

descendency
03-07-2011, 01:08 AM
When all else fails, send the lackeys to the video room and have them frame by frame the coaching film to determine how long it took.

brasho
03-09-2011, 01:26 PM
It's hard to believe that they could be electronic because electronic times are typically about .2 slower than hand time so guys that are running 4.28 are really running 4.08 which is pretty crazy.

Your numbers are way, way off. I posted something on here last year giving the exact numers hand-timers are usually off and it is nowhere close to .2.

Besides that, the "electronic time" of the combine is only half electronic, and not the most important one at that. The clock is started by hand and then stops timing (electronically) when the player passes the finish line. This is stupid because everybody that has timed before knows that the most difficult part of timing is getting the start. This is because gauging and beginning the clock at the start is all about reaction time. While gauging and ending the clock at the end has nothing to do with reaction but anticipation.

It is far easier to anticipate the ending than it is to react quickly enough to the start.

http://journals.lww.com/nsca-jscr/Abstract/2008/11000/Reliability_and_Accuracy_of_Handheld_Stopwatches.3 5.aspx

It states here on the NSCA site, the Journal of Strength and Conditioning Research, the #1 source for athletic training in the world that the margin for error was anywhere from .16 to .24 and that 67.3% were faster and 29.4% were slower, which means 32.7% were slower or the same. Plus, add in the fact that the times at the combine are only half digital and then the margin for error will likely go down even more.

Iamcanadian
03-09-2011, 01:43 PM
Your numbers are way, way off. I posted something on here last year giving the exact numers hand-timers are usually off and it is nowhere close to .2.

Besides that, the "electronic time" of the combine is only half electronic, and not the most important one at that. The clock is started by hand and then stops timing (electronically) when the player passes the finish line. This is stupid because everybody that has timed before knows that the most difficult part of timing is getting the start. This is because gauging and beginning the clock at the start is all about reaction time. While gauging and ending the clock at the end has nothing to do with reaction but anticipation.

It is far easier to anticipate the ending than it is to react quickly enough to the start.

http://journals.lww.com/nsca-jscr/Abstract/2008/11000/Reliability_and_Accuracy_of_Handheld_Stopwatches.3 5.aspx

It states here on the NSCA site, the Journal of Strength and Conditioning Research, the #1 source for athletic training in the world that the margin for error was anywhere from .16 to .24 and that 67.3% were faster and 29.4% were slower, which means 32.7% were slower or the same. Plus, add in the fact that the times at the combine are only half digital and then the margin for error will likely go down even more.

This is not correct, the clock at the Combine starts with any motion, you motion starts the clock not a person. IMO, it isn't always accurate and that is why almost all the scouts, HC's and GM's hand time players. Most of them go by their hand time.
They really don't care if they are off a few hundreds of a second either way.

JHL6719
03-09-2011, 02:06 PM
It's my understanding that the combine used to use a hand start in the 40, and the clock was stopped electronically, around the early 90's, or so.

Now they do it just the opposite. Electronic start, stopped by hand.

Iamcanadian
03-09-2011, 02:14 PM
It's my understanding that the combine used to use a hand start in the 40, and the clock was stopped electronically, around the early 90's, or so.

Now they do it just the opposite. Electronic start, stopped by hand.

I heard how they start the clock but I have never heard how they stop the time. Are you sure they stop the clock by hand because I would think it would stop as soon as the electric clock senses they reached the finish line.

brasho
03-09-2011, 04:28 PM
This is not correct, the clock at the Combine starts with any motion, you motion starts the clock not a person. IMO, it isn't always accurate and that is why almost all the scouts, HC's and GM's hand time players. Most of them go by their hand time.
They really don't care if they are off a few hundreds of a second either way.

You've got it backwards. This is why the facilitator at the starting line asks that the athletes be stopped for a full second before they begin their run and also asks that they don't execute a rolling start, it is because the handtime is started on first motion. If it was done electronically it would be possible to do a rolling start with the starter beginning when the participant's hand comes off the ground.

brasho
03-09-2011, 04:57 PM
http://www.strengthcoach.com/public/1140.cfm?sd=51

2- Hand Start- electronic finish. This is a system used uniquely at the NFL Combine. A hand start-electronic finish will be approximately .1 seconds slower than a hand held 40 yard dash. In the combine the use of hand start will be particularly evident in the faster ten yard dash times. Athletes will run 10 yard times much closer to a hand held but, times at each following split will be closer to the electronic time.

_______________________

Not saying this is official...but even as a former sport specific trainer for 10 years, I trust these guys more than I trust myself... and they agree with me.