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Jimmy
03-22-2007, 08:44 AM
I'm not going to lie, it disgusts me.
The Moss pick disgusts me. Here is my reasoning.

What type of player is Jarvis Moss?
Jarvis Moss is an underweight pass rush specialist who has edge speed and was productive in college.

Right?
So you figure, yeah that works out pretty well, we need to pressure the Quarterback, because we have been a consistent run stopping team, but not a solid sacking team.

I completely disagree. If you look at his description: "underweight pass rush specialist who has edge speed and was productive" the name Elvis Dumervil should ring a bell or two. Why in the world would we draft moss as a pass specialist if we already have the one of the top young pass rush specialists in the league? Dumervil lead the nation in sacks his senior year, and has 8.5 sacks this year, and he didn't even start.

And i understand. DE is still the biggest need. And we do need a pass rushing DE. But we dont need to go out and blow a 21st pick on a specialist.

What im saying is that if we are going to draft a DE, he needs to be a good pass rusher, but cant be like 6'6 255. we need some bulk. Therefore, there is really no other guy that fits the pick there at DE.

We have to trade up if we are going to draft a DE. I say we need a DE, why not draft a guy that has the complete package, after all it has been our biggest problem for years. There is no reason to draft a 2 down guy, who can get copious sacks, because we already have the top pass rush specialist under 24 years old in the league

I am just upset with's scott reasoning because i think he went almost completely on our team needs and not what is appropriate for the #21 pick in the nfl draft.

since elvis appeared in 3 games less than the two below him i did some math
Dumervil had a sack per game ratio of .65 (started 0 of 16 games)

Mark Anderson had a .75 (and idk how many he started, over 10)

Wimbley had a .675 (and we all know he's nasty) started 15 of 16 games

Dumvervil didnt play 1/5 of the snaps that those guys played. Think about it. They played at least 3 times more snaps throught the season. And thats a scary thought. Out of his 17 tackles, 8.5 were sacks.

You feel me?
Pass rush specialist? Hell Naw
Top 15 DE that we should trade up for? Thats a little more like it


Thoughts?

Chris
03-22-2007, 09:14 AM
I actually like the mock, but I have my qualms about Moss. Outside Adams, he's probably the best one-gap defensive end in the draft when it comes to pass rushing. He just really glides out there. I think it's a good value pick at #21, but what worries me are his injuries earlier on in his career. He seems to be healthier now, and according to a source his character concerns have been addressed.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
03-22-2007, 02:09 PM
I'd rather have Charles Johnson, personally(or ideally, Carriker, but that's unlikely unless we trade up) as they can be everydown guys right away, or in the case of Carriker, can slide inside on 3rd downs for a super pass rush package. Moss has the potential to be an every down RE, but it probably won't be next year. When it happens though, it will make Dumervil even more effective, because on passing downs, he can come out and go against the RT.

JCutlery
03-28-2007, 02:29 PM
Personally, I think Jarvis Moss will be gone before we pick. I think the Titans will pick him up if he's available, so we will be forced to look in another direction at #21. In my opinion, Charles Johnson would be a slight reach there, so the Broncos could look into Joe Staley, since he's a perfect fit for our team. A lot of scouts say he has top-20 talent. Another possibility could be a playmaking safety like Michael Griffin, who can play either a centerfielder type role (FS) or an in-the-box role. He could be the ballhawk this defense needs.

Jimmy
03-28-2007, 03:03 PM
He could be the ballhawk this defense needs.

http://www.nflhs.com/images/PI/db2_ChampBailey2006-250.jpg

JCutlery
03-28-2007, 03:05 PM
http://www.nflhs.com/images/PI/db2_ChampBailey2006-250.jpg

At safety..

CT Bronco Fan
03-29-2007, 10:52 AM
I don't think we take DE to be honest. DT / OT / LB / S / WR. Those are what i think are the 5 possibilities for our first round pick. I actually think Joe Staley if he's there at 21, will be our pick.

JCutlery
03-29-2007, 01:08 PM
I don't think we take DE to be honest. DT / OT / LB / S / WR. Those are what i think are the 5 possibilities for our first round pick. I actually think Joe Staley if he's there at 21, will be our pick.

Are you kidding me? We need base ends.. Lang and Engelberger are backups, Dumervil is a passing down specialist. We only have Ekuban as a base end, and he won't be here forever.

JCutlery
03-29-2007, 07:29 PM
name 4 solid base ends who will be in our range of the draft? i just don't see anything at the position that doesn't require a massive trade up.

Jarvis Moss has the frame to be a base end, though he would need to get in the weight room. Other than that there are few worth taking in the first round. Tim Crowder, Charles Johnson, Victor Abiamiri all have the potential to be base ends and could be had in the 2nd round. But, the only true base end in this draft is Jamaal Anderson, and he would definitely not be available at our pick.

CT Bronco Fan
03-29-2007, 08:24 PM
Are you kidding me? We need base ends.. Lang and Engelberger are backups, Dumervil is a passing down specialist. We only have Ekuban as a base end, and he won't be here forever.

No I'm not kidding you at all. and uh, if we took Jarvis Moss, he would be a back up as well, and I don't think for a second we will take Jarvis Moss. Moss to be is nothing more then just someone who will come in as a pash rush specialist. And we already have a pass rush specialist in Elvis Dumervil. You don't waste your first round pick on something you already have < unless they suck or are old >.

Sitting at 21, Denver is not in a good spot. The ends that will be available for us, aren't worthy of pick 21. I'm still saying that if we stay where we are, which I don't honestly expect. DE will not be taken at 21. I honestly see us trading out of the first round, maybe even getting a next year pick from someone like the Redskins again.

JCutlery
03-30-2007, 01:18 AM
No I'm not kidding you at all. and uh, if we took Jarvis Moss, he would be a back up as well, and I don't think for a second we will take Jarvis Moss. Moss to be is nothing more then just someone who will come in as a pash rush specialist. And we already have a pass rush specialist in Elvis Dumervil. You don't waste your first round pick on something you already have < unless they suck or are old >.

Sitting at 21, Denver is not in a good spot. The ends that will be available for us, aren't worthy of pick 21. I'm still saying that if we stay where we are, which I don't honestly expect. DE will not be taken at 21. I honestly see us trading out of the first round, maybe even getting a next year pick from someone like the Redskins again.

My point is that we need base ends, not that Moss is worth taking there. I personally would prefer a playmaking safety like Reggie Nelson or Michael Griffin, Joe Staley or Ted Ginn if he's some how still there.

JCutlery
03-30-2007, 12:39 PM
blech, ted ginn. you're the first bronco fan i've seen who has any vague interest in him.

Why wouldn't I? He is a game-changing player and an impact return man. And if he's on the board and there are no d-lineman worth taking, I don't see any reason why Shanahan would pass on him.

JCutlery
03-30-2007, 12:58 PM
what the hell do we need a first round KR for when we have massive needs at other positions?

Like I said "no d-lineman worth taking". If our number one need cannot be addressed, Shanahan might go bpa or trade down. And in case you didn't know, Ginn does a lot more than just return kicks.

JCutlery
03-30-2007, 01:16 PM
we don't need a 4th string deep threat with questionable short range skills. unless we're cutting marshall, smith and stokley? at this rate, we're likely to address LB, S or OT. i don't think ginn is unlikely, just stupid.

As much as I want the Broncos to address safety, I kind of doubt they will in the first round. I keep hearing all this crap about how the coaches love Cargile/Abdullah/Cox and for all we know they still like Ferguson. LB is a little tricky, because we don't know if they are going to switch DJ to the inside. If he is switched, we will need a strongside linebacker. If not, we may not need to address the position immediately (at least in the 1st round), because Webster is capable of starting in Al's place, in my opinion.

As for Ginn, Smith and Stokley both have health concerns and Marshall is in the doghouse for now, due to his arrest.

CT Bronco Fan
03-30-2007, 01:26 PM
I was on the WR in round one bandwagon for awhile, but after the Stokley signing, it no longer became likely if you ask me. Although Ginn is a great PR/KR, he probably won't be around at 21, to even worry about it.

If we're going to take a WR in the first day, it will probably be 2nd or 3rd round. This class is pretty deep. And I'd rather let some other team get Ginn. Ginn also doesn't fit the mold of the WR that shanny likes anyways. The only thing Ginn would do for the broncos would be the 3rd - 5th WR, and a KR/PR.

JCutlery
03-30-2007, 01:38 PM
I was on the WR in round one bandwagon for awhile, but after the Stokley signing, it no longer became likely if you ask me. Although Ginn is a great PR/KR, he probably won't be around at 21, to even worry about it.

If we're going to take a WR in the first day, it will probably be 2nd or 3rd round. This class is pretty deep. And I'd rather let some other team get Ginn. Ginn also doesn't fit the mold of the WR that shanny likes anyways. The only thing Ginn would do for the broncos would be the 3rd - 5th WR, and a KR/PR.

Besides Ginn, Calvin Johnson is the only other WR I would take in the 1st round. I don't think we need a WR till the 2nd day, I just think Ginn's value is too much to pass up in that situation. And you're right, Ginn likely won't be there anyway.

CT Bronco Fan
03-30-2007, 01:41 PM
Besides Ginn, Calvin Johnson is the only other WR I would take in the 1st round. I don't think we need a WR till the 2nd day, I just think Ginn's value is too much to pass up in that situation. And you're right, Ginn likely won't be there anyway.

uh, what about Jarrett, Bowe, Meachem, Rice ?

Those 4 guys to me are all first rounders, as well as Johnson and Ginn. My favoriate of the WR < besides johnson > is Bowe. I would be happy with him. But I also think Bowe will be gone long before 21 also.

JCutlery
03-30-2007, 02:17 PM
This would be my ideal draft.

1 (21st Overall) - S Michael Griffin, Texas

A versatile safety who has the speed and coverage skills to play a centerfield (FS) role with Lynch complimenting him as our in-the-box guy (where he should be). Also, can play SS when Lynch retires, if needed.

2 (56th Overall) - DE Tim Crowder, Texas

Crowder is the base end we need. He might be able to come in and start right away, but likely will backup Kenard Lang. Has the size and quickness, but is also stout against the run.

3 (f/WAS, 70th Overall) - DT Ryan McBean, Oklahoma State

Jim Bates' ideal defensive tackle is big, tall and also very quick and athletic. Ryan McBean fits the bill. At 6-5, 286 McBean is rising up draft boards because of his athleticism (4.98 40 time).

3 (86th Overall) - LB Stewart Bradley, Nebraska

I know it probably seems like I have a thing for the Big12 by now, but it's just a coincidence. Bradley is the best strongside linebacker in the draft. Shift DJ Williams to MLB and you have a pretty solid group of LBs there, despite Al's loss.

6 (f/DET, 176th Overall) - OT Adam Koets, Oregon State
6 (198th Overall) - WR Yamon Figurs, Kansas State
7 (233rd Overall) - P Adam Podlesh, Maryland

JCutlery
03-30-2007, 02:19 PM
uh, what about Jarrett, Bowe, Meachem, Rice ?

Those 4 guys to me are all first rounders, as well as Johnson and Ginn. My favoriate of the WR < besides johnson > is Bowe. I would be happy with him. But I also think Bowe will be gone long before 21 also.

I'm talking about as a Bronco. I don't think we need a WR unless it is Calvin Johnson or it has special teams ability.

JCutlery
03-30-2007, 02:20 PM
i'd rather have meachem or bowe than ginn, but again, what's the point. they'll be the #3 wr at BEST in the near future.

Exactly, but I'd rather have a #3 reciever who just so happens to be one of the best return men in the league..

Diehard
03-31-2007, 03:03 AM
Exactly, but I'd rather have a #3 reciever who just so happens to be one of the best return men in the league..

Don't be fooled - he's not Hester. Ginn is a one-dimensional speed guy... even if it is a pretty impressive dimension. He doesn't have great moves / shiftiness and isn't going to break any tackles.

He's pretty raw as a receiver - routes, hands... these are things still undreamed of by little Ginny. I don't see him getting the separation in the NFL that he did in college without some decoy element (e.g. a reverse), as he is too reliant on his speed to outrun the coverage.

Could he develop into a great receiver? Possibly. Would a burn a first rounder to find out? I don't think so.

ripdw27
04-12-2007, 07:08 PM
i think we should trade up for landry or nelson or at de carriker or possibly even gaines adams if he starts to slip