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LizardState
03-08-2011, 04:14 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=6194133

If he knew, why isn't his job in jeopardy?

More than 375 OSU violations, although "minor," in 10 yrs. would be enough for most coaches to be unemployed.

http://communitypress.cincinnati.com/article/AB/20110308/SPT01/303080074/1122/rss1012/Tressel-s-job-OSU-jeopardy-?odyssey=nav|head

from the Cincy Community Press article:

"In May of 2009, The Columbus Dispatch reported that since 2000, Ohio State had reported to the NCAA more than 375 violations – the most of any of the 69 Football Bowl Subdivision schools that provided documents to the newspaper through public-records requests. Most of the infractions were minor and resulted in little or no punishment."

BRAVEHEART
03-08-2011, 04:28 PM
Cause the Sweatervest has immunity.

descendency
03-08-2011, 04:32 PM
My post from another forum

I can't blame Tressell. Lots of coaches turn a blind eye to their problems at their schools. Just look at UNC Coach Butch Davis. He's a total embarrassment to their school, is 0-4 against NC State, and practically running an agent ring at Carolina and he gets a slap on the wrist while he keeps his job.

There is no way he didn't know what kind of ****hole Marvin Austin is. He just doesn't care, because it gets him elite recruits.

edit: I could go on, but I think the point is understood... Butch Davis is the best thing to happen for NC State and Carolina should have got a death penalty.

edit2: There isn't much I hate more than OSU, so defending them should tell you how little I think of the "ethics" of college coaches.

Hell, Nick Saban may be the most honest of them all. He only went to Alabama after they gave him a longterm blowjob contract. I mean, if he walked on 40 million over 8 years, I'd have thought something was wrong with him.

keylime_5
03-08-2011, 06:07 PM
this is what Tressel's statement was:

“I am sorry and disappointed this happened. At the time the situation occurred, I thought I was doing the right thing. I understand my responsibility to represent Ohio State and the game of football. I apologize to any and all of the people I have let down. I will grow from this experience.”

Is it just me or is anyone exactly sure of what he did? It sounds like they had a trail on the Tatt-gate stuff in April but they didn't redflag it, there was some confusion and it didn't get resolved until December. Something about emails and a federal drug trafficking in college thing too, idk. Slap on the wrist for making an honest mistake.

A school leading the nation in self reported infractions is the sign of a clean program, not a dirty one btw. OSU is a hugantic school with lots of sports and as many student athletes as any other in the country.

JoeJoeBrown
03-08-2011, 06:25 PM
Sounds like some slob at the NCAA leaked it to Wetzel.

This is pretty much nothing. The issue was self-reported in early February and will be a self-imposed 2 game $250k penalty.

There is noway in hell the NCAA will make it worse.

So a lawyer sends JT an email with 2 players being under Federal investigation due to the sting on the tattoo parlor guy. It sounds like he talked to the players, but not to the university legal team at the time.

Turns out it was 6 players and that he should have talked to legal at OSU so they could have followed the proper procedure.

I like how the self-reporting schools get **** on and the really dirty ones get away with whatever payola schemes they want to. The NCAA is a farce.

descendency
03-08-2011, 06:34 PM
I feel like something is wrong in the universe that I am defending tOSU, but...

Let's say you are Jim Tressell. Your best players come to you and say "Coach, we are going to break some minor NCAA rules." What do you say to them?

The options are
1. "Don't do it - I'll have to report you." At the same time, you realize they are poor and could use the money. You are stuck between a rock and a hard place here. If you do report them, then you will be looked down at by the players as well as hurt your football team. If you don't report them then you are cheating as I say below.
2. "Go ahead, I'll try to make sure you don't get caught." Then you are a cheat.
3. "Don't tell me." This makes you a cheat as well. This is creating an atmosphere of non-compliance.

There is no good way to handle this if you are Jim Tressell. The only people who could do the right thing are the players - who should have never went through with this.

As a complete aside (though maybe slightly relevant), I think if this were to cause Tressell to retire at the end of the year, that the next head coach of Ohio State football would be Urban Meyer. I've had that prediction since he tried to retire from Florida the first time and I'm sticking with it.

TACKLE
03-08-2011, 06:36 PM
Tressel should of gotten 3 games; no more, no less.

(selfish reasons that may have to do with the 3rd game on Ohio State's schedule)

LizardState
03-08-2011, 06:51 PM
The suspensions moved to this season instead of the bowl game in January raised some red flags with me, I posted this when I clicked a link & read about the 375 violations in 10 yrs.

Kind of overwhelming & difficult to ignore. Self reporting that many of them must have required a couple of fulltime Sports Info interns this last decade.

I think if this were to cause Tressell to retire at the end of the year, that the next head coach of Ohio State football would be Urban Meyer.

Agree with the 1st p/o this. Not so much the 2nd part, Meyer may have been scared into early retirement for a very good reason, heart attacks are serious, & being a HC in a high profile BCS program is one of the highest stress jobs there is. I think his cardiologist in Florida advised Meyer to retire & live longer -- he's taking that advice.

Sportsfan486
03-08-2011, 06:56 PM
If all he gets is the 2 game ban and $250 fine.. just shows how much more of a sham the BCS is (although the lack of bowl-game suspensions and Newton pretty much handled that last year.)

He knew they broke the rules and did nothing at best, tried to keep it hush at worst. Absolute opposite of what is expected of a head coach. Should lose his job.

DeepThreat
03-08-2011, 07:06 PM
If all he gets is the 2 game ban and $250 fine.. just shows how much more of a sham the BCS is (although the lack of bowl-game suspensions and Newton pretty much handled that last year.)

He knew they broke the rules and did nothing at best, tried to keep it hush at worst. Absolute opposite of what is expected of a head coach. Should lose his job.

Stop talking about football.

This is killing me. Tress is pure class and I hate to see him get labeled as a sleeze ball by so many. He truly is remorseful and while I don't idsagree with his punishment, I am disappointed by what this will do to his legacy.

TACKLE
03-08-2011, 07:09 PM
Stop talking about football.

Seriously. Go back to glorifying the monotonous details of your day-to-day life in the RDT.

OSU is easily one of my least favorite teams but saying that Tress should be fired for this is asinine.

keylime_5
03-08-2011, 08:46 PM
If all he gets is the 2 game ban and $250 fine.. just shows how much more of a sham the BCS is (although the lack of bowl-game suspensions and Newton pretty much handled that last year.)

He knew they broke the rules and did nothing at best, tried to keep it hush at worst. Absolute opposite of what is expected of a head coach. Should lose his job.

whatever. he said the whole thing was him not knowing what to do with information that was told to be kept confidential and instead of going to a university lawyer or whatnot he kept it quiet. honest mistake by the coach who is the posterboy for how to run a program the right way.

Chucky
03-08-2011, 08:58 PM
whatever. he said the whole thing was him not knowing what to do with information that was told to be kept confidential and instead of going to a university lawyer or whatnot he kept it quiet. honest mistake by the coach who is the posterboy for how to run a program the right way.

Not anymore.

wonderbredd24
03-08-2011, 09:01 PM
I really don't know what to make of this

I do think Tressel is about as clean as it gets in college football, but there is probably a little more to this

JoeJoeBrown
03-08-2011, 09:29 PM
Not anymore.

Agreed. He needs to practice the art of plausible deniablilty.

Teach those young men that they need their parents to solicit and receive payment. And that they all need to keep their mouths shut no matter what.

Ensure that those that are too stupid to get into college are honoring their paychecks and mean to attend the big boy school while they wait out a few years at the preferred JUCO.

Let the players know when roster cuts are occurring so that they can step up their game.

That's what the NCAA is showing people what to do. Self-reporting is only going to make things worse.

In all seriousness, JT is no saint. The people that think he is are delusional. Do I think he has more integrity than most of his peers? Definitely. But no college football coach is clean. It's a terribly dirty sport.

I just can't take any of this infraction stuff seriously anymore. It is so unevenly and unfairly doled out that it's a joke.

Chucky
03-08-2011, 09:56 PM
I'm not saying he is worse(or better) than certain SEC coaches( including Chizik), but enough of this Tressel is a saint ********(which you conceded but most tOSU fans wont) and that he is on a different level which has been put on up to this point.

JoeJoeBrown
03-08-2011, 10:05 PM
I'm not saying he is worse(or better) than certain SEC coaches( including Chizik), but enough of this Tressel is a saint ********(which you conceded but most tOSU fans wont) and that he is on a different level which has been put on up to this point.

I agree. In Tressel's defense, I do think he has the right moral compass vs a lot of other coaches, at least wrt his players and their well being. He does do things that are better for the kids than are better for the program.

However, JT is FOS here when using the Feds as an excuse. I think he is FOS when acting naive about how some players magically have nice cars and whatnot. I guess it's a dirty part of the game that they all seem to play, but it's a sham. He's a politician. No matter how nice or pointed in the right direction that they seem, they always know how to game a system and come out ahead.

I truly think setting up a professionalized system of some sort gets rid of most of this ****. It's illegally professional now. Just formalize it and be done.

Sniper
03-09-2011, 06:24 AM
1. "Don't do it - I'll have to report you." At the same time, you realize they are poor and could use the money.

How, exactly, do you know that they're poor?

There is no good way to handle this if you are Jim Tressell.

What the ****? There absolutely is a good way to handle it. Make sure your players don't do **** that's against the rules. That's part of the job description.

I love how most OSU fans are angrier at the NCAA for enforcing their rules and at Yahoo! for reporting the news. Can't really say I'm surprised, though.

Brent
03-09-2011, 06:39 AM
How, exactly, do you know that they're poor?
Don't you know? All athletes on scholarship are poor.

JoeJoeBrown
03-09-2011, 08:15 AM
How, exactly, do you know that they're poor?



What the ****? There absolutely is a good way to handle it. Make sure your players don't do **** that's against the rules. That's part of the job description.

I love how most OSU fans are angrier at the NCAA for enforcing their rules and at Yahoo! for reporting the news. Can't really say I'm surprised, though.

I remember the angst that UM fans had over being sanctioned for extra practice. Rules are rules.

Anyone angry over Y! is an idiot, the news was merely leaked a few days early. The violation had been filed February 3rd.

The thing is, the more that I think about it, the more disappointed I get in the OSU AD department as a whole. Excuse making and a whole bunch of BS being shoveled.

I think a lot of OSU fans are feeling a version of the following. For the psychos that think JT can do no wrong, they are going to be slow coming to their senses, but at least they got jolted. The rest have some common sense and are just becoming more jaded at the whole sordid affair.

This guy on the ozone sums it up for me: (http://forums.theozone.net/offtopic/messages/511825.html)

The making of excuses. From the time this Tat5 thing hit the news, the thing that has bothered me the most with regard to the whole thing has been the excuses put forth by people like Gene Smith and Jim Tressel.

-"the times were tough, players needed money". Total BS excuse that has been sanctioned by Ohio State. Pryor is driving around a 2008 Dodge Charger and has a flatscreen, a PS3, and an XBox in his apartment.

-"the kids didn't know the rules". Total 100% BS. Having worked in an athletic dept, there is NO WAY. Another BS excuse sanctioned by OSU.

-"I was worried about their safety". Total BS IMO. Sorry, but I'm not buying this and I'm filing under the growing list of BS excuses put forth by members of the OSU AD.

This is a disturbing thing IMO and I fear that it reflects a real problem within the culture of the A.D. I would much prefer they would tell it like it is:

The players knew exactly what they were doing, and they did it anyway. They let greed and selfishness cloud their judgment, like so many kids. The head coach was made aware of this months ago and he did not tell anyone so that the players would not face an investigation with regard to compliance which could eventually result in suspension. They will all be punished because that is not acceptable behavior at Ohio State.

Enough with the BS excuses.

descendency
03-09-2011, 08:16 AM
How, exactly, do you know that they're poor?

I know someone from OSU (that's a huge homer) that has told me Pryor isn't that well off and probably needed the money.

edit: After watching Mike and Mike, I agree - that this is very similar to Dez Bryant last year. If he knowingly lied to the NCAA, then a very stiff penalty has to be enforced.

Bob Sanders Dreadlock
03-09-2011, 08:19 AM
A school leading the nation in self reported infractions is the sign of a clean program, not a dirty one btw. OSU is a hugantic school with lots of sports and as many student athletes as any other in the country.

So if i continually break the law then turn myself into the police makes me a good person?
http://media.ebaumsworld.com/picture/matthewpeoples/epiclulz.jpg

Shane P. Hallam
03-09-2011, 08:19 AM
I know someone from OSU (that's a huge homer) that has told me Pryor isn't that well off and probably needed the money.

Yup, he only lives in the most expensive apartment/condo complex around campus.

Sniper
03-09-2011, 08:23 AM
Yup, he only lives in the most expensive apartment/condo complex around campus.

While we're on the Tat 5, isn't Mike Adams from a pretty affluent area? I think I recall hearing that Dublin is a pretty well-off area.

Sniper
03-09-2011, 08:27 AM
I remember the angst that UM fans had over being sanctioned for extra practice. Rules are rules.

What I didn't like about the Rosenberg article in the Free Press was the half-truths and the fact that he admitted to not telling Je'Ron Stokes and Brandin Hawthorne what his piece was about and instead leading them to believe that it was for something else. Rodriguez and his staff broke the rules, trivial as they may have been in that case, and they deserved to be punished.

I think a lot of OSU fans are feeling a version of the following. For the psychos that think JT can do no wrong, they are going to be slow coming to their senses, but at least they got jolted. The rest have some common sense and are just becoming more jaded at the whole sordid affair.

Schlabach (who never misses a chance to take a shot at anything Big 10-related) actually summed up the Buckeye point of view pretty well. As long as Tressel keeps beating Michigan, he's a made man.

This guy on the ozone sums it up for me: (http://forums.theozone.net/offtopic/messages/511825.html)

Well put. I'm tired about hearing how these kids from the "hood" can't afford anything and are put to work for little to no pay. Like I've said before, I managed to survive in college without a scholarship through loans and all that fun ****. I certainly am not the only one. These guys can survive just fine with their room, board, tuition, books, meals, gym, etc... paid for.

JoeJoeBrown
03-09-2011, 08:37 AM
Schlabach (who never misses a chance to take a shot at anything Big 10-related) actually summed up the Buckeye point of view pretty well. As long as Tressel keeps beating Michigan, he's a made man.


Yep. If he wasn't kicking UM's ass every year and in general winning at a rate that very few in the history of major college football have ever achieved, he would have been fired.

The conspiracy side of me says that he is taking one for the AD here possibly. He might have actually forwarded this on and the school sat on it. Either way, someone there sat on the info and it's rotten.

It's a major violation and it stinks.


Well put. I'm tired about hearing how these kids from the "hood" can't afford anything and are put to work for little to no pay. Like I've said before, I managed to survive in college without a scholarship through loans and all that fun ****. I certainly am not the only one. These guys can survive just fine with their room, board, tuition, books, meals, gym, etc... paid for.

Yep. It's not about not being able to afford life. It's that these kids are getting paid. I have no illusions about amateurism at any big time athletic program. The degrees may vary, but they are professionals.

Professionalize the game.

Michigan
03-09-2011, 10:06 AM
o hai thar hard evidence

http://www.610wtvn.com/pages/template/tressels_emails_march2011.pdf

resignation/hilarious spin attempt in 3...2...1...

Sniper
03-09-2011, 10:14 AM
Well, you knew this was coming.

http://mgoblog.com/content/somewhat-complete-accounting-recent-ohio-state-funny-business

2003
That's a nice car/job/wad of money. Maurice Clarett sits out the season after claiming his expensive dealership car was robbed of over 10k in stuff. Questioned by the NCAA, Clarett refuses to give straight answers to questions 17 times because "half the team would've been suspended, and it would've been worse for everybody."

Clarett also claims his grades were total fiction, he got phantom jobs, that coaches would tell him to talk to certain people who just happened to drop thousands of dollars they didn't care about, that he got free cars and free rent. Ohio State fans discount Clarett as mentally unstable, which he is.

That's a nice tutor. Clarett's grad student tutor confirms the total fiction grades bit of Clarett's story to the New York Times. The internal response was lovely: "Goings attacked the teaching assistant's credibility, saying he found it difficult to believe her because she had a history of psychiatric problems and displayed what he called erratic behavior." Goings calls the tutor a liar and fires her after she meets with him about another player.

2004
That's a nice job. Booster Robert Q Baker gives Troy Smith $500 for a fake job, getting Smith suspended a couple games and himself dissociated from the program. A couple years earlier Chris Gamble also worked for Baker's company.

More, but I don't want to copy and paste the whole thing because, well, that's not very nice.

Sniper
03-09-2011, 10:19 AM
My personal favorite coming up. The NCAA really had their heads in the sand on this one.

http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/sports/stories/2011/01/02/no-ncaa-violation-found-in-pryor-using-loaned-cars.html?sid=101

Three times in the past three years, Ohio State quarterback Terrelle Pryor was stopped for traffic violations while driving cars that were owned by a car salesman or a Columbus used-car lot where the salesman worked, according to traffic citations obtained by The Dispatch.

...

In that incident, Pryor was ticketed for speeding in eastern Ohio's Guernsey County, driving a 2004 GMC Denali that belonged to car salesman Aaron Kniffin when he said he worked for the Jack Maxton dealership.

...

This past March, Pryor was stopped for speeding in Licking County with a 2009 Dodge that is registered to Auto Direct of Columbus, a used-car dealership on E. Dublin-Granville Road where Kniffin worked. A week later, Pryor was pulled over in Columbus for a different infraction, driving the same Dodge.

Ohio State knew about Pryor's use of the car while he had the engine in his own car replaced this past spring and was assured that every customer receives a loaner when extended repairs like that are necessary, Archie said.

...

Kniffin said that while working at Maxton he allowed Pryor to drive his SUV to his hometown in Pennsylvania so that his mother could check it out. Pryor did not buy the vehicle. Kniffin also said he arranged for Pryor to use the 2009 Dodge while Pryor's car was being repaired.

I used Mapquest to determine how far OSU is from Pryor's hometown of Jeanette, Pa. 210 miles- just south of four hours' worth of driving. Let me know when anyone else finds a dealer that lets them drive a car eight hours roundtrip so their mom can check it out. For the record, the 2004 Denali sold for anywhere between $36,000 and $50,000.

JoeJoeBrown
03-09-2011, 10:42 AM
Yep. Lot's of shady stuff with those guys.

The sad thing is that this happens everywhere. Even UM. There is little integrity in the game.

P-L
03-09-2011, 10:42 AM
A few thoughts:

- Tressel knew about this and decided not to say anything hoping that it would go away. Don't deny it and don't try and spin it. Every other coach in college football would've probably done the same thing. It's not that big of a deal in my opinion, but he did get caught.

- The fact that Ohio State self-reports the most violations of any school in the country is NOT evidence that it is one of the cleanest programs out there. You are assuming that every school has a similar number of violations committed. That would be a terrible assumption. Ever think that Ohio State self-reports more violations than any other school because they have more violations than most other schools? Is it so unbelievable that Ohio State would report every minor violation to gain trust from the NCAA, so that larger violations would have a better chance of going unnoticed?

- Most Michigan fans weren't upset that the NCAA enforced their rules. They were upset that we get busted for not counting stretching as practice time and have QC assistants overseeing voluntary practices while the NCAA turns a blind eye to the Auburns and Clemsons of college football.

- I don't hold anything against Ohio State for this. You'd have to be totally ignorant to believe that ANY school follows the NCAA rule book 100%. The ones who follow it the most are probably the ones who aren't very good in sports. It's just ridiculous to suggest this is something it's not. Poor Jim Tressel who runs to the NCAA every time an assistant coach gives a player a ride back to their dorm suddenly was confused about what to do with the information given to him regarding the tattoo shop. That's just ********.

JoeJoeBrown
03-09-2011, 10:48 AM
A few thoughts:

- Tressel knew about this and decided not to say anything hoping that it would go away. Don't deny it and don't try and spin it. Every other coach in college football would've probably done the same thing. It's not that big of a deal in my opinion, but he did get caught.

- The fact that Ohio State self-reports the most violations of any school in the country is NOT evidence that it is one of the cleanest programs out there. You are assuming that every school has a similar number of violations committed. That would be a terrible assumption. Ever think that Ohio State self-reports more violations than any other school because they have more violations than most other schools? Is it so unbelievable that Ohio State would report every minor violation to gain trust from the NCAA, so that larger violations would have a better chance of going unnoticed?

- Most Michigan fans weren't upset that the NCAA enforced their rules. They were upset that we get busted for not counting stretching as practice time and have QC assistants overseeing voluntary practices while the NCAA turns a blind eye to the Auburns and Clemsons of college football.

- I don't hold anything against Ohio State for this. You'd have to be totally ignorant to believe that ANY school follows the NCAA rule book 100%. The ones who follow it the most are probably the ones who aren't very good in sports. It's just ridiculous to suggest this is something it's not. Poor Jim Tressel who runs to the NCAA every time an assistant coach gives a player a ride back to their dorm suddenly was confused about what to do with the information given to him regarding the tattoo shop. That's just ********.

Pretty much agree.

wonderbredd24
03-09-2011, 10:52 AM
I think the larger issue here is the fact that Dan Wetzal seems to be more effective than the entire NCAA when it comes to investigating anything, which is just an indictment of the NCAA's credibility

I eagerly anticipate Wetzal investigating Auburn and Oregon

keylime_5
03-09-2011, 10:53 AM
So if i continually break the law then turn myself into the police makes me a good person?

whatever, every team commits violations. By self-reporting them it means the athletics department is trying to comply with the NCAA as much as they can. Do you think Lane Kiffin would self-report every minor violation he ever commits??? This is common knowledge.

wonderbredd24
03-09-2011, 10:54 AM
the 375 violations thing seems like a scary number and it very well could be... I just wish there were other numbers to compare

Sniper
03-09-2011, 10:56 AM
whatever, every team commits violations. By self-reporting them it means the athletics department is trying to comply with the NCAA as much as they can. Do you think Lane Kiffin would self-report every minor violation he ever commits??? This is common knowledge.

Everyone murders people, steals from you, steals from me. Obviously, no team commits violations quite like OSU does.

JoeJoeBrown
03-09-2011, 11:01 AM
I think the larger issue here is the fact that Dan Wetzal seems to be more effective than the entire NCAA when it comes to investigating anything, which is just an indictment of the NCAA's credibility

I eagerly anticipate Wetzal investigating Auburn and Oregon

Wetzel didn't do anything. OSU already self reported in February. Someone leaked the info to him. He merely spurred the public disclosure to be moved to an earlier date.

JoeJoeBrown
03-09-2011, 11:03 AM
Everyone murders people, steals from you, steals from me. Obviously, no team commits violations quite like OSU does.

At least with OSU, the witnesses to $500k payoffs don't mysteriously die of "heart attacks" before testifying.

Sniper
03-09-2011, 11:04 AM
At least with OSU, the witnesses to $500k payoffs don't mysteriously die of "heart attacks" before testifying.

That's all well and good, but keylime's attempt at sweeping everything under the rug by saying that, "every team commits violations" is ridiculous when OSU leads the country in secondary violations in the past decade. Obviously, not everyone commits that many.

JoeJoeBrown
03-09-2011, 11:16 AM
That's all well and good, but keylime's attempt at sweeping everything under the rug by saying that, "every team commits violations" is ridiculous when OSU leads the country in secondary violations in the past decade. Obviously, not everyone commits that many.

True, but percentage wise it's probably not crazy. It has the most sports programs of any school, and the number dwarfs many schools outside of Stanford.

And they report things like "recruit was in the same elevator as Cris Carter". Auburn would laugh at such reporting. I think P-L is right that they go overboard in reporting stupid little things in order to get favoritism for the major violations.

JoeJoeBrown
03-09-2011, 11:17 AM
BTW, here are the most corrupt ADs out there. (http://www.associatesdegree.com/2011/03/08/10-most-corrupt-college-athletic-programs/)

Let’s face it, our favorite college programs cheat. That thoroughbred running back who’s expected to anchor your school’s offense over the next three or four years didn’t come cheap. Sure, your school may not have been caught lately, but that’s probably because the coaches and boosters do it more discreetly than others — and kudos to them, because getting away with it isn’t always easy. According to Insider Higher Ed, almost half of all big-time college sports programs have been punished for major violations by the NCAA during the last decade. These days, even the Ivies aren’t immune to major infractions. The following programs are the most notorious repeat offenders, the blatant cheaters who always seem to have NCAA investigators breathing down their necks. This is where the phrase "lack of institutional control" becomes redundant.

1. Arizona State — Nine Major Infractions: The Sun Devils would be the biggest cheaters, but because they aren’t a consistent football powerhouse, their misdeeds have gone mostly under the radar. Arizona State is primarily known for its baseball program, which has won five national championships and produced legends such as Reggie Jackson and fittingly, Barry Bonds. Last December, it was penalized for major secondary violations, resulting in three years probation and a one-year ban from NCAA postseason. The NCAA Division I Committee on Infractions cited the athletic program for, most notably, improperly recruiting one player and giving improper benefits to multiple players. Arizona State was a repeat offender — in 2005, ASU was given two years probation for a lack of institutional control and impermissibly giving financial aid. The litany of problems led to the forced resignation of coach Pat Murphy, who led the Sun Devils to four College World Series appearances.
2. SMU — Eight Major Infractions: Holding the unfortunate distinction of being just one of five programs in NCAA history to suffer the death penalty, SMU football is still the poster child for corruption in major college athletics. Its capital offense was maintaining a slush fund to pay players from the mid-1970s to the mid-1980s, even when the program was already on probation — from 1974 to 1985, it was penalized on five separate occasions. Because SMU was under such intense scrutiny from the NCAA, the powers that be had little choice but to levy the harshest penalty. As a result, the entire 1987 season was canceled, SMU was forced to cancel the 1988 season, 55 scholarships were docked and the team was permitted to hire just five full-time assistant coaches instead of the regular nine. The program was crippled for almost two decades, but it has finally experienced a resurgence over the last couple of years. In 2009, head coach June Jones guided the programs its first bowl game since the 1984 Aloha Bowl.
3. Auburn — Seven Major Infractions: Seven major infractions for now, anyway. The Cam Newton situation aside, Auburn has had a difficult time playing by the rules over the years. Its most embarrassing incident occurred in 1991, when 60 Minutes aired recordings of head football coach Pat Dye arranging a loan for a player. The series of incriminating tapes were provided by former star defensive back Eric Ramsey and unveiled a player payment scheme involving the coaching staff and prominent booster "Corky" Frost. For its wrongdoing, Auburn received a two-year bowl ban, a one-year television and ban and lost 13 scholarships over a four-year period. Dye was replaced by Terry Bowden, who became the first Division 1 coach to go undefeated in his first season but had nothing to show for it.
4. Minnesota — Seven Major Infractions: During his 13-year stint as Minnesota’s head basketball coach, Clem Haskins oversaw runs to the Elite Eight, Final Four and NIT Championship. Today, however, only the Elite Eight appearance remains in the NCAA record books, as everything Haskins accomplished from 1993-1994 forward was vacated. Prior to the Golden Gophers’ appearance in the 1999 NCAA tournament, a former basketball office manager revealed that she had written more than 400 papers for numerous basketball players over several years. Haskins’ contract was bought out over the summer and he later admitted to paying her $3,000 for her work. As the NCAA investigation unfolded, he was accused of paying players, persuading professors to inflate players’ grades and ignoring sexual harassment concerns. The NCAA administered massive sanctions, notably docking five scholarships over three seasons and instituting recruiting limitations. The entire athletic department suffered, as athletic director, associate athletic director, vice president for student development and athletics and academic counselor were all forced to resign due to the scandal.
5. Oklahoma — Seven Major Infractions: Barry Switzer inherited a program on probation — it forfeited nine games from the 1972 season because of violations that resulted from the alteration of players’ transcripts — and left it on probation in 1988. The Sooners had garnered the reputation of being an outlaw program in the 1980s. During one rough patch, a shooting and rape occurred in an athletic dorm, a player attempted to sell drugs to undercover agent, and a player robbed Switzer’s home. The latter player probably didn’t receive person checks from Switzer, scalped game tickets, free airline tickets, or a boatload of money from a bidding war during his recruitment. All of that happened, and it resulted in a two-year bowl ban, a one-year live television ban and recruiting restrictions. More recently, Oklahoma’s basketball program was penalized when former basketball coach Kelvin Sampson, the same guy who later crippled the Indiana basketball program due to unethical recruiting practices, made 550 illegal calls to 17 different recruits.
6. Texas A&M — Seven Major Infractions: The Southwest Conference is probably the most corrupt entity in the history of college sports. If you competed in the SWC during the 1980s and weren’t cheating, you didn’t have a pulse. Not coincidentally, Texas A&M enjoyed quite a bit of success during the decade, winning three consecutive conference titles under Jackie Sherrill, who Joe Paterno once lumped with Barry Switzer when bemoaning that era of college football. Sherrill resigned in 1988 after the NCAA discovered that assistant coaches and boosters were providing improper benefits to recruits — one was given a sports car and another’s father was offered medical treatment. The Aggies were given two years of probation, banned from the postseason for one season and docked 10 scholarships. Additional violations by the basketball program in 1991 and the football program again in 1994 — a booster employed and overpaid nine players who didn’t really work — almost caused A&M to suffer the same fate as SMU.
7. Wichita State — Seven Major Infractions: Programs from smaller conferences are just as capable of skirting the rules as the big boys. Although Wichita State doesn’t have a football program, its baseball and basketball programs have flourished. The baseball program has been one of the most successful in recent history, winning the 1989 College World Series and finishing second in 1982, 1991, and 1993. The basketball program reached the Final Four in 1965, Elite Eight in 1981 and Sweet Sixteen in 2006. Of the program’s seven infractions, perhaps the most disheartening one occurred in 1982, not long after the team had reached the Elite Eight. Violations involving the promises of cash and airline tickets resulted in the stripping of two basketball scholarships over two seasons and the program’s ban from the NCAA tournament and NIT. At the time the penalties were imposed, Wichita State led the NCAA in major infractions.
8. Wisconsin — Seven Major Infractions: Just months after its basketball program reached the Final Four in 2000, the Wisconsin athletic department was embroiled in controversy. Twenty-six football players were suspended prior to the season opener after the NCAA uncovered that members of the Badgers’ football and basketball teams were given special credit arrangements at a shoe store. A year later, Wisconsin began serving five years of probation, which included scholarship reductions in both football and basketball, for giving recruiting inducements and extra benefits and its overall failure to properly monitor its athletic program. The Badgers have managed to survive the last decade without any other major violations, and the football and basketball programs have enjoyed consistent success.
9. Florida State — Seven Major Infractions: Former rival coach Steve Spurrier once referred to FSU as Free Shoes University, a zinger derived from a 1993 scandal in which nine Florida State players went on an agent-funded shopping spree at Foot Locker. Six years later, also during a national championship run, all-American wide receiver Peter Warrick and Laveranues Coles were charged with felony grand theft for receiving $412.38-worth of clothes from a Dillard’s cashier — they only paid $21.40. Warrick was suspended for two games and Coles from thrown off the team. In 2009, Bobby Bowden was forced to vacate 12 victories because of an academic cheating scandal that also involved the men’s and women’s basketball, baseball, softball and men’s track and field programs — a 2007 men’s track national championship was vacated as well. The penalties ensured Bowden wouldn’t catch Joe Paterno as the FBS’s all-time winningest coach.
10. Memphis — Seven Major Infractions: The good feelings that accompanied Memphis State’s 1985 Final Four run diminished in the ensuing years as karma, tragedy and bad luck befell various member of the team and coaching staff. Head coach Dana Kirk was fired in 1986 after the NCAA uncovered recruiting violations and vacated the 1985 Final Four appearance. He later served a prison term for tax evasion, a crime he committed while he served as the head coach. Star center William Bedford was drafted sixth overall in the 1986 NBA draft, but his career was derailed by drug addiction, and he’s currently serving a 10-year prison sentence. Reserve guard Aaron Price was killed in a carjacking in 1998. Small forward Baskerville Holmes committed a murder-suicide in 1997. Assistant coach Larry Finch suffered a series of strokes that have left him debilitated. All of that was forgotten in 2008, however, when John Calipari had the Tigers positioned to win the national title. But that run was vacated by the NCAA in 2009, as Memphis was given three years of probation for Derrick Rose’s fraudulent SAT score and the $1,700 in free travel and lodging provided to his brother. Before penalties were levied, Calipari bolted to Kentucky, which could soon find its way on this list — the athletic program has six major infractions and the basketball program narrowly escaped the death penalty in 1989.

LizardState
03-09-2011, 11:49 AM
Schlabach (who never misses a chance to take a shot at anything Big 10-related) actually summed up the Buckeye point of view pretty well. As long as Tressel keeps beating Michigan, he's a made man.

....that, & making boatloads of revenue for the Ohio St. program guarantees his job security. Sweatervest is neither a sleazeball nor the poster boy for a class act BCS program, just an effective fundraiser, & isn't that what actually counts in bigtime college FB? If he deserves congrats for anything IMO it's for getting the monkey of unable to win the big one off his back with recent bowl game performances, fell short of the NC since they beat Miami in OT some yrs back, but that's one title that's very difficult to repeat, as Texas, Bama, Oklahoma, USC, etc. all know too well, & it's one brass ring that is very difficult to grab.

The press conference was apparently an attempt to minimize & belittle the charges, but the accumulation of the minor infractions seems, as I said, to be overwhelming in the last decade. It has to raise the question of just what degree of self-policing Tressel is doing when you look at that big picture over time.

keylime_5
03-09-2011, 12:36 PM
That's all well and good, but keylime's attempt at sweeping everything under the rug by saying that, "every team commits violations" is ridiculous when OSU leads the country in secondary violations in the past decade. Obviously, not everyone commits that many.

they lead the country in self-reported violations is what. we have more student athletes than any school except like UCLA or something too which kinda doesn't help that number.

Bob Sanders Dreadlock
03-09-2011, 12:37 PM
An article from yahoo

"3. Tressel has a history of high profile players receiving improper benefits on his watch. Before Terrelle Pryor and his classmates, there was Troy Smith; before Troy Smith, there was Maurice Clarett; before Maurice Clarett, there was Tressel's star quarterback at Youngstown State, Ray Isaac. Tressel was able to successful distance himself from each of those cases, but they demonstrate a pattern that undermines any appeal to an honest, one-time lapse of judgment."

keylime_5
03-09-2011, 12:45 PM
Pryor sold his stuff to a Tattoo Parlor, Clarett lied on a police report. I don't think those are receiving improper benefits. Clarett was a little bit of a crazy person, he didn't break NCAA rules, he thought he could leave for the draft after one season and went to jail. Smith received money from a booster and screwed up, he was really the only one. Love how Yahoo gets the facts so right there. Ira Guilford and Louis Irizarry got arrested for mugging old people too, why not mention them who also got in trouble but didn't receive improper benefits? I don't see what any of this has to do with Tressel, he's not the kids and the kids who screwed up were punished.

Sniper
03-09-2011, 12:53 PM
they lead the country in self-reported violations is what. we have more student athletes than any school except like UCLA or something too which kinda doesn't help that number.

How do you have more student athletes on your football team? The scholarship limit is 85 and the overall limit is 110 with walk-ons anywhere you go. It doesn't depend on student body size.

Try again.

wonderbredd24
03-09-2011, 01:02 PM
How do you have more student athletes on your football team? The scholarship limit is 85 and the overall limit is 110 with walk-ons anywhere you go. It doesn't depend on student body size.

Try again.
I think his point is that Ohio State is a big deal in a ton of sports and as a result it at least increases the potential for more violations. Texas and Stanford would be in a similar situation.
An article from yahoo

"3. Tressel has a history of high profile players receiving improper benefits on his watch. Before Terrelle Pryor and his classmates, there was Troy Smith; before Troy Smith, there was Maurice Clarett; before Maurice Clarett, there was Tressel's star quarterback at Youngstown State, Ray Isaac. Tressel was able to successful distance himself from each of those cases, but they demonstrate a pattern that undermines any appeal to an honest, one-time lapse of judgment."
Any mention of Maurice Clarett should enhance Tressel's reputation if it does anything. Despite all of the incredibly dumb **** Clarett has done, Tressel reached out to him, even when he was in jail to get him back in school to finish out his degree.

How many coaches would go that far for a kid? If this is the SEC, they will burn you in a heartbeat if you don't produce.

keylime_5
03-09-2011, 01:07 PM
How do you have more student athletes on your football team? The scholarship limit is 85 and the overall limit is 110 with walk-ons anywhere you go. It doesn't depend on student body size.

Try again.

i was referring to the the entire atheltics program as a whole, not just the football team....and these "violations" that OSU is self-reporting are things like coaches giving kids rides across campus and things like that that most people don't even realize are violations. If you email a recruit who is a junior in high school, technically that is a violation.

Sniper
03-09-2011, 01:11 PM
i was referring to the the entire atheltics program as a whole, not just the football team

Every sport has scholarship limits and walk-on limits. Your argument is invalid.

http://www.ohio.com/sports/117626723.html

wonderbredd24
03-09-2011, 01:13 PM
Every sport has scholarship limits and walk-on limits. Your argument is invalid.

http://www.ohio.com/sports/117626723.html
You're much smarter than this.

How many sports does Ohio State offer compared to the average division university?

Sniper
03-09-2011, 01:19 PM
You're much smarter than this.

How many sports does Ohio State offer compared to the average division university?

Isn't the 375 number associated with football?

wonderbredd24
03-09-2011, 01:22 PM
Isn't the 375 number associated with football?
For keylime's argument's sake, I hope not.

It appeared to be the Athletic Department as a whole

Sniper
03-09-2011, 01:25 PM
from the Cincy Community Press article:

"In May of 2009, The Columbus Dispatch reported that since 2000, Ohio State had reported to the NCAA more than 375 violations – the most of any of the 69 Football Bowl Subdivision schools that provided documents to the newspaper through public-records requests. Most of the infractions were minor and resulted in little or no punishment."

I didn't see this blurb in the article, though. However, that's where I got the 375 for football number.

wonderbredd24
03-09-2011, 01:26 PM
I didn't see this blurb in the article, though. However, that's where I got the 375 for football number.
and like I said before, that looks like and could very well be a scary number... I just wish there were some comparisons for context.

yourfavestoner
03-09-2011, 01:40 PM
**** college football. That is all.

draftguru151
03-09-2011, 01:43 PM
If OSU is reporting all those violations, that means they're breaking the rules and they know it, so even if other schools have anywhere near that many minor infractions (which is doubtful), isn't it worse that they know the rules and are still breaking them?

Trogdor
03-09-2011, 01:48 PM
This is by definition a failure of institutional controls. Add lying to NCAA investigators and recruits receiving improper benefits ($ for equipment is improper) to the list. So please explain to me why the punishment for this 'incident' should be nothing more to Tressel than being suspended for games against "Little Sisters of the Poor"?

If the NCAA doesn't act with the type of heavy-handed approach they have in the recent past with the same type of deal (USC, Dez Bryant, etc) then how can anyone claim that they follow any precedent? It should be less than USC (they self-reported and cooperated) however they lied to investigators and demonstrated that they lack the institutional controls required by the NCAA to regulate student athletes.

Not sure, aside from being stuck in the mindset of an OSU fan, how this can be twisted in any other fashion.

keylime_5
03-09-2011, 01:55 PM
Ohio State has more sports than a lot of schools. That's why they have more student athletes. My original point that seems to have gotten lost in all this jumble wasn't just talking about having more violations reported as a whole (I know they self-report more for football than any other program, that goes without saying) but the fact is Ohio State as a school has a larger student body than other schools, it's harder to keep track of your kids in that environment than it is in say a place like Columbia, SC anyways.

A lot of teams don't bother self-reporting things like that, its' not that big of a deal. Some coaches like to keep track of every little thing. Let's blow the self-reported minor violations thing out of proportion why dont we?

here's some examples of what kind of "violations" these are we're talking about:
http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20080210/news_1s10ncaabox.html

If you send a newsletter to a recruit with color ink on it you are a violator!

Sniper
03-09-2011, 01:57 PM
A lot of teams don't bother self-reporting things like that, its' not that big of a deal. Some coaches like to keep track of every little thing. Let's blow the self-reported minor violations thing out of proportion why dont we?

375 secondary violations add up to something. As Dez Bryant learned, lying to NCAA investigators isn't a little thing either.

sunnyintheD
03-09-2011, 01:59 PM
If OSU is reporting all those violations, that means they're breaking the rules and they know it, so even if other schools have anywhere near that many minor infractions (which is doubtful), isn't it worse that they know the rules and are still breaking them?
It isn't as easy to say they knew the rules and were breaking them with minor infractions. I'm an athletic trainer and when I did my graduate work I was involved in something technically termed an infraction. I bought a meal for an athlete when they were in the hospital. Teammates were joking about this in the training room and the coach overheard. The coach told me that is was a violation because of the position I held with the team. How they explained it was even though I didn't "wine and dine" them it's still included no matter how trivial it seems. That being some infraction really never crossed my mind.

I'm not saying these violations are anything like this; however, I just wanna point out that its not that cut and dry.

keylime_5
03-09-2011, 02:07 PM
375 secondary violations add up to something. As Dez Bryant learned, lying to NCAA investigators isn't a little thing either.

well we don't know how many any other schools have had to compare this with do we? we do know that it happens all the time and usually teams self-report about 5 or 6 secondary violations at one time. Usually it's something silly like the newsletter being printed on the wrong type of paper, or a coach calling a recruit too many times in a certain time frame, or a recruit getting a ride across campus. I would be surprised if the list of schools with most violations reported were all other big schools who run relatively clean ships.

wonderbredd24
03-09-2011, 02:09 PM
the bottom line for me... as an Ohio State fan, you can no longer say that Jim Tressel is not a liar and a cheater and that sucks

keylime_5
03-09-2011, 02:17 PM
the whole thing stinks from him getting caught up in the mess with these kids trading gear for memorabilia to the players doing that themselves. he said he thought he was doing the right thing when he did it but in the end it ended up sour and he made a mistake. best intentions or not the stain is on the record, but even the most honest guys get heat sometimes. Tressel is still one of the best role models in college sports and a model for how to run a program and it's not like we're one of those southern schools where "if you ain't cheatin', you ain't trying" is the M.O.

J-Mike88
03-09-2011, 02:23 PM
375 secondary violations add up to something. As Dez Bryant learned, lying to NCAA investigators isn't a little thing either.
Tressel is toast. Done. I just wish that they could give the harsh penalty to Gordon Gee instead, I hate that guy.

keylime_5
03-09-2011, 02:23 PM
some people (mostly on the radio in Ohio it seems) are acting like this is SMU all over again. People need to realize that Tressel got emails in April from a lawyer who requested confidentiality and the emails did pertain to a federal drug investigation (with the tattoo parlor guy I believe) and there was confusion about what and who to keep confidential about these emails. It's not like he knew and kept it under wraps so his kids could just go on breaking the rules. It even said in the email replies that Tressel was hammering his kids into staying away from the tattoo parlors and whatnot. Lots of left out details with these bafoons on talk radio criticizing the guy. In hindsight he should've went to a school legal council instead of sitting on the information for so long.

JHL6719
03-09-2011, 03:11 PM
Jim Tressell and Jim Delany will do whatever it takes just to compete with the SEC on the field. All the SEC bashing that goes on in here from the butthurt Big-Ten fudpuckers get to have their noses rubbed in this like you rub a puppy's nose in his own ****....

Instead of legends and leaders it should've been sweaters and cheaters...

Keep turning your noses up at the SEC and thumping your little bird chests as if you're some example Big-Ten fans.... while we keep beating your brains out on the field. Football season can't get here soon enough :^)

Sniper
03-09-2011, 03:26 PM
Jim Tressell and Jim Delany will do whatever it takes just to compete with the SEC on the field. All the SEC bashing that goes on in here from the butthurt Big-Ten fudpuckers get to have their noses rubbed in this like you rub a puppy's nose in his own ****....

Unlike the SEC, Big 10 teams don't try to take credit for each other's wins and they damn sure don't get lumped in with each other. If you want to piss off Ohio State, go piss off Ohio State. It's not a one for all, all for one ******** like in the South. It's every school for themselves. **** Ohio State and everything they stand for. I'm glad those clowns got this. Don't ******* lump other schools in with them.

If you want to troll, do it elsewhere.

keylime_5
03-09-2011, 03:53 PM
the SEC gets lumped together because usually what we're talking about regarding the SEC usually applies to all their schools except maybe Vanderbilt. The SEC fans have some kind of complex where they think if one of their teams does something that all of the teams did it. Like when Alabama fans said they were rooting for Auburn to win the NC, that's messed up.

I don't want to hear any SEC fans say a word about some ticky tack thing like what Tressel and the Tatt-5 got busted for when there is all this evidence that SEC schools were trying to get Cam Newton in that play for pay ****, yet they are all sanction free. Youve lost all the criticize the Big Ten ethics privileges right there.

wonderbredd24
03-09-2011, 04:06 PM
To the contrary... The SEC gets lumped in together by you ****s constantly. Quit being a whiny little ***** and deal with it.

I read nothing but SEC bashing on this site by all of you Big-Ten fans. One thing I can promise you Sniper, I'll be right here to give it all back at every opportunity.

Dont like it? Eat a dick...
There are SEC chants at bowl games

Complex
03-09-2011, 04:09 PM
some people (mostly on the radio in Ohio it seems) are acting like this is SMU all over again. People need to realize that Tressel got emails in April from a lawyer who requested confidentiality and the emails did pertain to a federal drug investigation (with the tattoo parlor guy I believe) and there was confusion about what and who to keep confidential about these emails. It's not like he knew and kept it under wraps so his kids could just go on breaking the rules. It even said in the email replies that Tressel was hammering his kids into staying away from the tattoo parlors and whatnot. Lots of left out details with these bafoons on talk radio criticizing the guy. In hindsight he should've went to a school legal council instead of sitting on the information for so long.

Tressel talked to and emailed other people about what the lawyer told him so the confidentiality thing is BS.


attorney-client privilege usually works in the other direction, not to mention compliance departments happily welcome anonymous tips. He also worried about infringing on the criminal investigation. That part's more plausible, up until the point where the investigation was broadcast to the world once Ohio State suspended the five players


Btw
law enforcement officials notified Ohio State in December that the memorabilia was found at the tattoo parlor, Tressel still declined to inform his employer that someone e-mailed him about it eight months earlier. In fact, Tressel didn't fess up until the university uncovered the e-mails in mid-January.

JHL6719
03-09-2011, 04:14 PM
the SEC gets lumped together because usually what we're talking about regarding the SEC usually applies to all their schools except maybe Vanderbilt. The SEC fans have some kind of complex where they think if one of their teams does something that all of the teams did it. Like when Alabama fans said they were rooting for Auburn to win the NC, that's messed up.

I don't want to hear any SEC fans say a word about some ticky tack thing like what Tressel and the Tatt-5 got busted for when there is all this evidence that SEC schools were trying to get Cam Newton in that play for pay ****, yet they are all sanction free. Youve lost all the criticize the Big Ten ethics privileges right there.


Wrong.. SEC fans realize that their teams are more battle tested from banging heads with each other for 12 weeks when it comes time to go up against other conferences in post season play...

It's not as if teams like LSU are intentionally trying to make Missisippi St. a better football team, or make them a tougher opponent for Michigan by trying to beat the **** out of 'em for 4 quarters... but it is the reality.

The SEC takes pride in the fact that teams from inside our own conference are the best competition we face. Ask that lunatic who killed the trees at Toomers Corner if he was rooting for Auburn to win the national championship..

Everybody is sanction free regarding Cam Newton because there is no PROOF that any money even changed hands, and Mike Slive found a loophole in the SEC bylaws about shopping a recruit to schools, and cut a deal to keep him eligible. Newton saying he "didn't know" Cecil was shopping him is the only reason he was able to play. Nobody in the SEC buys any of that ****...

Lastly, it's the Big-Ten fans that seem to think they have the ethical superiority complex... and I love every time it blows up in their face... LOVE IT!

Smooth Criminal
03-09-2011, 04:23 PM
As an OSU fan, I honestly do not give a damn about this. It simply doesn't bother me at all. I don't care that these kids got free tattoos, I don't care that they sold gear, and I don't care that Tressel knew.

The only violations that bother me are things that effect play on the field. I don't care that Newton got paid and I don't care that Bush's parents got a damn house. Really the only thing that could get me riled up would be something like steriods because it give players an on field advantage.

The suspensions suck cause next season is pretty much ruined, but the violations don't bother me at all.

Bob Sanders Dreadlock
03-09-2011, 04:35 PM
Lane Kiffin- Suspended 8 conference games
Dez Bryant- Lies to ncaa gets full season
Jim Tressel- Lies and misses 2 games against powderpuffs.


Way to go NCAA, completely gutless move. Hope the buckeyes get hammered in the 5 games the athletes are suspended.

Smooth Criminal
03-09-2011, 04:36 PM
Lane Kiffin- Suspended 8 conference games
Dez Bryant- Lies to ncaa gets full season
Jim Tressel- Lies and misses 2 games against powderpuffs.


Way to go NCAA, completely gutless move. Hope the buckeyes get hammered in the 5 games the athletes are suspended.

Thats not the NCAAs suspension, its Ohio States. I think its very likely the NCAA will add to the suspension.

Bob Sanders Dreadlock
03-09-2011, 04:37 PM
Thats not the NCAAs suspension, its Ohio States. I think its very likely the NCAA will add to the suspension.

In that case i wish i could bet money on a weak suspension.

JoeJoeBrown
03-09-2011, 04:47 PM
Lane Kiffin- Suspended 8 conference games
Dez Bryant- Lies to ncaa gets full season
Jim Tressel- Lies and misses 2 games against powderpuffs.


Way to go NCAA, completely gutless move. Hope the buckeyes get hammered in the 5 games the athletes are suspended.

A team of walkons could win all of the preseason games. Cupcake schedule deluxe. MSU isn't going to be much more difficult.

I do love that several of you hate OSU and the B1G. It makes me smile.

keylime_5
03-09-2011, 04:52 PM
Lane Kiffin- Suspended 8 conference games
Dez Bryant- Lies to ncaa gets full season
Jim Tressel- Lies and misses 2 games against powderpuffs.


Way to go NCAA, completely gutless move. Hope the buckeyes get hammered in the 5 games the athletes are suspended.

difference is Bryant lied about having contact with someone he shouldn't have. Tressel was tipped off about his players selling their stuff in emails, was told to keep it confidential, and chose to withhold information from the NCAA instead of breaking confidentiality with a lawyer who was part of a federal drug trafficking investigation who told him to keep the information confidential, so it was a catch 22 of sorts. Not quite the same.

yourfavestoner
03-09-2011, 05:01 PM
difference is Bryant lied about having contact with someone he shouldn't have. Tressel was tipped off about his players selling their stuff in emails, was told to keep it confidential, and chose to withhold information from the NCAA instead of breaking confidentiality with a lawyer who was part of a federal drug trafficking investigation who told him to keep the information confidential, so it was a catch 22 of sorts. Not quite the same.

I actually heard someone use that argument on the radio, and it's complete BS.

First of all, the lawyer was the one breaking confidentiality in the first place by giving the head's up to Tressel. Tressel is neither the attorney's client nor is he an active party in whatever case they're investigating. Therefore, he wasn't entitled to the information in the first place and certainly isn't bound to any attorney-client confidentiality privileges.

wonderbredd24
03-09-2011, 05:03 PM
And Dez Bryant would've been free and clear had he been honest... nothing was illegal under NCAA regulations with what he had done

But no one should ever, ever take advice from Deion Sanders as this is what happens

JoeJoeBrown
03-09-2011, 05:08 PM
Embrace the hate.

keylime_5
03-09-2011, 05:10 PM
I actually heard someone use that argument on the radio, and it's complete BS.

First of all, the lawyer was the one breaking confidentiality in the first place by giving the head's up to Tressel. Tressel is neither the attorney's client nor is he an active party in whatever case they're investigating. Therefore, he wasn't entitled to the information in the first place and certainly isn't bound to any attorney-client confidentiality privileges.

yes, but there is this little thing called integrity where if someone comes to you with information that is meant to help protect your players, then you want to respect the request of confidentiality. No one ever said he was legally bound to keep the information confidential, but if he broke confidentiality then he would have betrayed the lawyer's trust. In hindsight he should have went to someone with the information like the school's legal counsel, but that's why things are what they are. Point being while what Tressel did wasn't the right thing in the end, you can see how he could've approached it with good intentions like he said.

Complex
03-09-2011, 05:10 PM
difference is Bryant lied about having contact with someone he shouldn't have. Tressel was tipped off about his players selling their stuff in emails, was told to keep it confidential, and chose to withhold information from the NCAA instead of breaking confidentiality with a lawyer who was part of a federal drug trafficking investigation who told him to keep the information confidential, so it was a catch 22 of sorts. Not quite the same.

Your in denial Tressel could of told the NCAA about the emails just like YFS said. Tressel is just like every SEC coach out there IDK why you guys think he is above them when he is just as dirty. Dez could have contact with Deion but was not allowed to have dinner with him unless he paid or some BS. Dez got in trouble mainly for lying to the NCAA.

Edit: Approached it with good intentions? lol no he did not. He told no one because he wanted to win games.Do you really think if his 3rd string long snapper and guard did the samething Pyror and the other 4 did, he would have with held this information and not suspended them?

wonderbredd24
03-09-2011, 05:12 PM
Your in denial Tressel could of told the NCAA about the emails just like YFS said. Tressel is just like every SEC coach out there IDK why you guys think he is above them when he is just as dirty. Dez could have contact with Deion but was not allowed to have dinner with him unless he paid or some BS. Dez got in trouble mainly for lying to the NCAA.
Just as dirty as SEC coaches? How many football players has Tressel kicked off of scholarship to recruit replacements? How much over signing does Tressel do?

keylime_5
03-09-2011, 05:17 PM
go talk to some recruits' parents about recruiting tactics used by guys like Urban Meyer, Nick Saban, Lane Kiffin, etc. in comparison to Tressel okay. Comparing SEC coaching scum to Tressel is laughable, even after Tressel gets in trouble for something.

keylime_5
03-09-2011, 05:20 PM
Edit: Approached it with good intentions? lol no he did not. He told no one because he wanted to win games.Do you really think if his 3rd string long snapper and guard did the samething Pyror and the other 4 did, he would have with held this information and not suspended them?

okay, forget about the benefit of the doubt why dont we? If Tressel knew that the federal government had seized memorabilia that was known to have been sold by players then I'm sure he would have realized that it could have been damning to his players. The names of all of the players weren't given anyways in case you didn't read the emails, he was trying to get the names of them all. Some of them were players who were no longer on the team as well. For the moment let's at least give JT the benefit of the doubt that he truly was trying to maintain confidentiality.

wonderbredd24
03-09-2011, 05:21 PM
go talk to some recruits' parents about recruiting tactics used by guys like Urban Meyer, Nick Saban, Lane Kiffin, etc. in comparison to Tressel okay. Comparing SEC coaching scum to Tressel is laughable, even after Tressel gets in trouble for something.
Leave Urban Mayer alone... Ohio born and bred with 2 national titles and he's going to be Ohio State's next coach :D

yourfavestoner
03-09-2011, 05:21 PM
go talk to some recruits' parents about recruiting tactics used by guys like Urban Meyer, Nick Saban, Lane Kiffin, etc. in comparison to Tressel okay. Comparing SEC coaching scum to Tressel is laughable, even after Tressel gets in trouble for something.

This isn't directed at you personally, but statements like this are what make me dislike college football fans to the point that I can't even enjoy the sport any more.

Pac-10, SEC, Big-10, Big-12...they're all dirty. Every single one of them. Florida, USC, Ohio State, Michigan...I don't care who it is. If you're a major division one football program, you're dirty. I just don't understand the "holier than thou" sentiments people have in CFB, especially when the majority of people have never stepped foot on campus of the team they root for (let alone actually attended the school). It boggles my mind.

keylime_5
03-09-2011, 05:22 PM
haha, yeah lots of great coaches are from Ohio but that still doesn't excuse them from being scumbags, especially UM.

wonderbredd24
03-09-2011, 05:26 PM
This isn't directed at you personally, but statements like this are what make me dislike college football fans to the point that I can't even enjoy the sport any more.

Pac-10, SEC, Big-10, Big-12...they're all dirty. Every single one of them. Florida, USC, Ohio State, Michigan...I don't care who it is. If you're a major division one football program, you're dirty. I just don't understand the "holier than thou" sentiments people have in CFB, especially when the majority of people have never stepped foot on campus of the team they root for (let alone actually attended the school). It boggles my mind.
The practice of over signing and kicking kids off scholarship because they aren't as good as a coach hoped for even though they are doing everything right in terms of living up to that scholarship is one of the most despicable practices in college sports.

The SEC just happens to be the conference that thinks this practice is business as usual.

Athletic scholarships are not intended to be 1-year contracts.

In every other sense of the argument I agree with what you are saying, but when it comes to that, the SEC is awful

yourfavestoner
03-09-2011, 05:31 PM
The practice of over signing and kicking kids off scholarship because they aren't as good as a coach hoped for even though they are doing everything right in terms of living up to that scholarship is one of the most despicable practices in college sports.

The SEC just happens to be the conference that thinks this practice is business as usual.

Athletic scholarships are not intended to be 1-year contracts.

In every other sense of the argument I agree with what you are saying, but when it comes to that, the SEC is awful

The NCAA says its rules are clear. Athletic scholarships are one-year, "merit-based" awards that require both demonstrated academic performance as well as "participation expectations" on the playing field.

Those discrepancies apparently have caught the attention of the U.S. Justice Department. Its antitrust division is investigating the one-year renewable scholarship, with agents interviewing NCAA officials and member schools. A Justice Department spokeswoman declined comment because the probe, announced on May 6, is ongoing.


"This happens a lot more than anybody even believes," said New Haven management professor Allen Sack, a former Notre Dame football player and vocal NCAA critic. "You're allowed to do it. According to the NCAA, there's nothing wrong with it.


"Coaches don't go out of their way to clarify (scholarship length). They make it as vague as they possibly can."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/05/24/revoked-scholarships-surp_n_586854.html

One year, merit-based contracts is exactly what they're intended to be.

I agree that it is morally wrong and deplorable, but it's every bit within the rules.

Smooth Criminal
03-09-2011, 06:18 PM
This isn't directed at you personally, but statements like this are what make me dislike college football fans to the point that I can't even enjoy the sport any more.

Pac-10, SEC, Big-10, Big-12...they're all dirty. Every single one of them. Florida, USC, Ohio State, Michigan...I don't care who it is. If you're a major division one football program, you're dirty. I just don't understand the "holier than thou" sentiments people have in CFB, especially when the majority of people have never stepped foot on campus of the team they root for (let alone actually attended the school). It boggles my mind.


I go to Ohio State, as you said unlike most fans I actually go to the school I'm a fan of, and I couldnt care less about any 'holier than thou' garbage. Every damn program is dirty, every program has violations. At this point they don't bother me at all because they are so ridiculously widespread.

The only reason I hate the SEC are their obnoxious fans, particularly the ones that are fans of schools that do nothing but still think they're awesome because of the success of their rivals. When did it become ok to take pride in the success of rivals? I ******* hate Michigan.

CashmoneyDrew
03-09-2011, 06:35 PM
I go to Ohio State, as you said unlike most fans I actually go to the school I'm a fan of, and I couldnt care less about any 'holier than thou' garbage. Every damn program is dirty, every program has violations. At this point they don't bother me at all because they are so ridiculously widespread.

The only reason I hate the SEC are their obnoxious fans

C'mon. Every single conference has those fans. And making sweeping generalizations just ends up putting you in the same category as them.

particularly the ones that are fans of schools that do nothing but still think they're awesome because of the success of their rivals. When did it become ok to take pride in the success of rivals? I ******* hate Michigan.

Silly Commodore fans. Always riding our coattails.

Smooth Criminal
03-09-2011, 06:53 PM
C'mon. Every single conference has those fans. And making sweeping generalizations just ends up putting you in the same category as them.



Silly Commodore fans. Always riding our coattails.

Sure, everyone has those fans. Most conferences are simply easy to ignore, cause they havn't been quite so annoying since this fun little streak of titles has started. I've never heard anything like SEC chants, which are somewhat entertaining at games such as Alabama hosting Penn State, but simply ridiculous when heard at a bowl game featuring power house program Kentucky.

But really look at how many SEC schools have taken part in this national title run, and look how many fans from other schools talk about it like they were apart of it. Very humorous to me at least that many SEC fans like to talk **** about Ohio State's BCS record, which isn't even bad, when their school hasn't taken part in even a quarter of the BCS games OSU has.

Chucky
03-09-2011, 06:56 PM
Sure, everyone has those fans. Most conferences are simply easy to ignore, cause they havn't been quite so annoying since this fun little streak of titles has started. I've never heard anything like SEC chants, which are somewhat entertaining at games such as Alabama hosting Penn State, but simply ridiculous when heard at a bowl game featuring power house program Kentucky.

But really look at how many SEC schools have taken part in this national title run, and look how many fans from other schools talk about it like they were apart of it. Very humorous to me at least that many SEC fans like to talk **** about Ohio State's BCS record, which isn't even bad, when their school hasn't taken part in even a quarter of the BCS games OSU has.

Please don't turn this thread that is tarnishing your teams coach into a thread bashing the SEC.

Smooth Criminal
03-09-2011, 07:00 PM
Please don't turn this thread that is tarnishing your teams coach into a thread bashing the SEC.

It was there way before I got here. I havn't done anything but respond.

And I already said I don't care about Tressel, tattoos, Newton, Bush, or any other violation. We all know every single school has issues like this whether or not they got caught. The only thing that matters to me is on the field, so as long as players arn't on steriods or doing anyting else to alter their own talents on the field it really makes no difference to me.

metafour
03-09-2011, 07:37 PM
Athletic scholarships are not intended to be 1-year contracts.

Athletic scholarships are renewed on a yearly basis; so yes, in fact, they ARE intended to be "reviewed" at the end of each year. There is no such thing as a scholarship that runs 4 years.

Brent
03-09-2011, 08:04 PM
especially when the majority of people have never stepped foot on campus of the team they root for (let alone actually attended the school). It boggles my mind.
ah, my pet peeve.

Sportsfan486
03-09-2011, 08:11 PM
Stop talking about football.

This is killing me. Tress is pure class and I hate to see him get labeled as a sleeze ball by so many. He truly is remorseful and while I don't idsagree with his punishment, I am disappointed by what this will do to his legacy.

Seriously. Go back to glorifying the monotonous details of your day-to-day life in the RDT.

OSU is easily one of my least favorite teams but saying that Tress should be fired for this is asinine.

whatever. he said the whole thing was him not knowing what to do with information that was told to be kept confidential and instead of going to a university lawyer or whatnot he kept it quiet. honest mistake by the coach who is the posterboy for how to run a program the right way.

LOL.

He's a poster boy to run a program the right way? He hid violations. No matter how you guys want to twist and turn it he was made aware of violations and didn't report them. That, by definition, is HIDING THEM.

As a head coach it is his responsibility to be adhere and enforce the rules. He did the opposite here. He didn't even forward the email to his AD and let him handle it. He sent a reply that he'd handle it and did nothing. Even after this all came out he didn't reveal the info, it wasn't until the school DISCOVERED it that it came out.

At any job in the real world if you're a manager and you blatantly hide violations of company rules you lose your job or at least face major repercussions. Missing two games that are as gimme as they come is not that. The ONLY reason he hasn't and you guys are defending him is because OSU has a fantastic football program, in large part thanks to Tressel, and it would take a fall without him.

So no, a coach that found out rules were being broken and stayed silent is NOT a poster boy for how to run a program.


I guess I'm just odd for expecting someone that receives millions of dollars a year in a position that influences the lives of KIDS to be held responsible and adherent to the rules.

monson
03-09-2011, 08:38 PM
look, he didn't do what he was contractuallly obligated to do. But, his employer didn't really care...

So, no bowl games or tv for a year. loss of some scholarships. Then move on.

CashmoneyDrew
03-09-2011, 08:39 PM
ah, my pet peeve.

Hey now, some of us have legit reasons for not attending the schools we root for.

shylo3716
03-09-2011, 11:19 PM
Why haven't the 5 players been interviewed to speak on Tressel?

TitansCJftw
03-09-2011, 11:52 PM
I just don't understand the "holier than thou" sentiments people have in CFB, especially when the majority of people have never stepped foot on campus of the team they root for (let alone actually attended the school). It boggles my mind.

Pretty much my thoughts exactly reading through this mess

JoeJoeBrown
03-10-2011, 08:11 AM
Rumors are that there is more crap to come.

My guess is it's the Pryor car thing.

J-Mike88
03-10-2011, 08:15 AM
Rumors are that there is more crap to come.

My guess is it's the Pryor car thing.
Is Pryor gonna get Rhett Bomar'd

iowatreat54
03-10-2011, 08:50 AM
http://aol.sportingnews.com/ncaa-football/feed/2010-12/osu-suspensions/story/ohio-state-letter-to-ncaa-could-doom-tressel?icid=main%7Chtmlws-main-n%7Cdl5%7Csec1_lnk3%7C205475

Ohio State’s official letter to the NCAA regarding violations within the football program sheds more light on Tuesday’s confusing press conference, and likely leaves the school in serious trouble with the NCAA.

The letter clearly explains the process by which coach Jim Tressel failed three times to tell his superiors about evidence of NCAA violations.

The three specific times:

• Tressel signed a document on Sept. 13, 2010 that said he was not aware of NCAA violations.

• He failed to tell school officials on or around Dec. 9, 2010 about emails he received in April explaining players’ involvement in selling memorabilia.

• He failed to tell school officials about the emails — or his knowledge of players selling memorabilia — when specifically asked on Dec. 16, 2010. He also misled school officials that day when stating he “did not recall from whom he received the tip,” and that he “did not know that any items had been seized.”

So he supposedly received an email in April that players were selling stuff, but apparently either didn't care to look into it because he probably could have easily discovered that they were, or knew they were and didn't care.

He signs a document saying he had no idea any rules were being broken. So again, either he didn't care to even look into it or straight up lied.

He didn't tell anyone about the emails, so again, he either didn't care or didn't want anyone to know.

And finally, when specifically asked, he denied everything.

When this first started, I was on the who cares side for Tressel. I didn't think he should lose his job, and getting suspended was fine, but I thought to force him out would be dumb. But if all this is true, that he deliberately mislead the administration, then it would be absolutely justified to fire him. I'm not saying he should be fired/forced to resign, but if he does it won't be outrageous at all and no one should be able to say that it is.

Just my opinion, though..

JoeJoeBrown
03-10-2011, 09:54 AM
http://aol.sportingnews.com/ncaa-football/feed/2010-12/osu-suspensions/story/ohio-state-letter-to-ncaa-could-doom-tressel?icid=main%7Chtmlws-main-n%7Cdl5%7Csec1_lnk3%7C205475



So he supposedly received an email in April that players were selling stuff, but apparently either didn't care to look into it because he probably could have easily discovered that they were, or knew they were and didn't care.

He signs a document saying he had no idea any rules were being broken. So again, either he didn't care to even look into it or straight up lied.

He didn't tell anyone about the emails, so again, he either didn't care or didn't want anyone to know.

And finally, when specifically asked, he denied everything.

When this first started, I was on the who cares side for Tressel. I didn't think he should lose his job, and getting suspended was fine, but I thought to force him out would be dumb. But if all this is true, that he deliberately mislead the administration, then it would be absolutely justified to fire him. I'm not saying he should be fired/forced to resign, but if he does it won't be outrageous at all and no one should be able to say that it is.

Just my opinion, though..

I think he's trying to fall on the sword for the school. Rumors indicate further issues.

If there is an LOIC issue, which will come about if JT is lying about not sending the emails forward (i.e. I think he did and the AD covered it up), I think JT and Gene Smith are fired. Doubt if Gee knows much of what happened at all.

This will be a big black eye for OSU.

Read this for the latest rumors. (http://forums.theozone.net/messages/933579.html)

iowatreat54
03-10-2011, 09:58 AM
I think he's trying to fall on the sword for the school. Rumors indicate further issues.

Read this for the latest rumors. (http://forums.theozone.net/messages/933579.html)

Yea, I mean I really have no idea what actually is going on, but there's way too much for it to just be written off like I originally thought.

One thing's for sure, just when OSU's NC game failures were starting to fade in everyone's minds, now we (Big Ten fans) will have to endure endless jabs about this for years. Thanks, sweatervest and co.

(I don't really care since OSU has always carried the conference, so I can't complain if Iowa doesn't step it up)

keylime_5
03-10-2011, 11:53 AM
http://aol.sportingnews.com/ncaa-football/feed/2010-12/osu-suspensions/story/ohio-state-letter-to-ncaa-could-doom-tressel?icid=main%7Chtmlws-main-n%7Cdl5%7Csec1_lnk3%7C205475



So he supposedly received an email in April that players were selling stuff, but apparently either didn't care to look into it because he probably could have easily discovered that they were, or knew they were and didn't care.

He signs a document saying he had no idea any rules were being broken. So again, either he didn't care to even look into it or straight up lied.

He didn't tell anyone about the emails, so again, he either didn't care or didn't want anyone to know.

And finally, when specifically asked, he denied everything.

When this first started, I was on the who cares side for Tressel. I didn't think he should lose his job, and getting suspended was fine, but I thought to force him out would be dumb. But if all this is true, that he deliberately mislead the administration, then it would be absolutely justified to fire him. I'm not saying he should be fired/forced to resign, but if he does it won't be outrageous at all and no one should be able to say that it is.

Just my opinion, though..

what is pointed out there is not the whole story. Tressel says that he was keeping the emails confidential as per request (which is stated by the lawyer who sent them in the emails).....you can believe that or that there is more breadcrumbs leading to OSU and Tressel was taking the fall for OSU like JoeJoe mentioned. Either way it all falls on the kids for doing stupid things and putting the Buckeyes in an awkward situation that was hard to handle and improperly handled.

Sniper
03-10-2011, 11:55 AM
http://www.toy-tma.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/Finish-Him.gif

RealityCheck
03-10-2011, 12:47 PM
Way to go, Ohio Scam. Way to go.

iowatreat54
03-10-2011, 01:46 PM
what is pointed out there is not the whole story. Tressel says that he was keeping the emails confidential as per request (which is stated by the lawyer who sent them in the emails).....you can believe that or that there is more breadcrumbs leading to OSU and Tressel was taking the fall for OSU like JoeJoe mentioned. Either way it all falls on the kids for doing stupid things and putting the Buckeyes in an awkward situation that was hard to handle and improperly handled.

Right, which is why I said this is all supposedly, and using the hypothetical if this were true.

But if he did indeed straight up lie to the administration, that's pretty big, let alone multiple times.

I'm not sure what I believe, just saying if some of these things are true.

Sniper
03-12-2011, 05:40 AM
More trouble for OSU?

http://www.sportsbybrooks.com/current-buckeyes-more-items-for-sale-found-29554

keylime_5
03-12-2011, 01:38 PM
sold on an auction by ohio state now being sold by whoever won them on auction i guess. some great bush league reporting there.

wonderbredd24
03-12-2011, 03:49 PM
Way to go, Ohio Scam. Way to go.
Regards,

The NCAA is being unfair to North Carolina for enforcing their rules.

JoeJoeBrown
03-12-2011, 09:04 PM
I still think new equipment was bartered and that JT is falling on the sword to try and save the AD from a LOIC penalty. I don't think it will work.

I hope these idiot players have had a lot of time to think about the repercussions of their actions.

nrk
03-18-2011, 02:15 PM
Tressel decides to sit out 5 total games with his players who are suspended.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=6230308

niel89
03-18-2011, 07:27 PM
I bet he's hoping that satisfies the NCAA so they don't do more than that.

J52
03-19-2011, 02:53 PM
If Dez Bryant got a year as a player, Tressel is in line for screwing over OSU for years to come and himself being gone for quite awhile.

Just to compare:
Reggie Bush got payed, USC gets 3(?) years.
Dez Bryant lied, he gets 1 year.

Multiple players get payed.
Tressel lies.
OSU is screwed if there is any consistency =o

HindSight
03-22-2011, 10:57 AM
eh.....I see a difference between reggie bush getting paid, and OSU players selling things.

Complex
03-25-2011, 11:38 AM
http://collegefootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/03/25/report-tressel-forwarded-emails-to-pryors-mentor/

According to the Dispatch, and citing multiple unnamed sources, Tressel forwarded the emails he had received last April to Jeanette, Pa., businessman Ted Sarniak. Sarniak has been Pryor’s mentor for the past several years and served as the point man in the quarterback’s recruitment.

A public-records request has been made by the Dispatch for emails that may have been exchanged between Tressel and Sarniak. The university is reviewing its records in an attempt to comply with the request.

The paper also writes that Tressel “shared the information with someone he thought could help his star quarterback even though he said he didn’t tell his bosses.”


OSU fans excuse: " But but he was protecting his players and was keeping the emails confidential because the lawyer asked him too."

No wonder Ohio State is runs the Big Ten, they play by SEC rules.

JoeJoeBrown
03-25-2011, 11:50 AM
http://collegefootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/03/25/report-tressel-forwarded-emails-to-pryors-mentor/



OSU fans excuse: " But but he was protecting his players and was keeping the emails confidential because the lawyer asked him too."

No wonder Ohio State is runs the Big Ten, they play by SEC rules.

JT is corrupt. He will probably, and justly, be fired.

Sadly, after the end of all of this, you still won't have even a rudimentary grasp of the English language.

JHL6719
03-25-2011, 02:04 PM
http://collegefootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/03/25/report-tressel-forwarded-emails-to-pryors-mentor/



OSU fans excuse: " But but he was protecting his players and was keeping the emails confidential because the lawyer asked him too."

No wonder Ohio State is runs the Big Ten, they play by SEC rules.


The contrary again... If Tressel would just oversign a little, maybe he wouldn't have felt like he had to protect these 5 players at all costs...

..and wouldn't be in nearly as much ****. :^)

JoeJoeBrown
03-25-2011, 02:30 PM
The contrary again... If Tressel would just oversign a little, maybe he wouldn't have felt like he had to protect these 5 players at all costs...

..and wouldn't be in nearly as much ****. :^)

:) True True.

This is obviously all Joe Bauserman's fault.