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View Full Version : Mike Pouncey - Only 4 First Round Guards Since 1999...


JFINK11
03-09-2011, 12:00 PM
Why is everyone so convinced hes going to be a first round pick. Great Player but was he really that dominant to warrant such consideration? I think this is just media hype attached to his brother's name and success. Any other thoughts?

killxswitch
03-09-2011, 12:17 PM
I think he will be a good guard but I don't think he will be a first round pick. That isn't a knock on Pouncey, just a bad set of circumstances. He is not and never was a center, so last year he looked worse than he would have if he'd stayed at guard. In addition, there is a ton of talent warranting a 1st this year so even if he is this year's top guard prospect there are too many other near-equally talented prospects at more important positions, including OL.

bigbluedefense
03-09-2011, 12:20 PM
Is there any 1st round Centers this year?

I wonder where Wiesnewski and O'Dowd fall.

killxswitch
03-09-2011, 12:22 PM
I can't get a handle on either of them but I think Wisniewski will go before O'Dowd. Wizzy in the 2nd-3rd, O'Dowd 3rd or 4th?

JFINK11
03-09-2011, 12:22 PM
agreed, this isnt a knock on pouncey. just more a realization that guards dont go in the first round...is he that specia?

metafour
03-09-2011, 12:24 PM
Why is everyone so convinced hes going to be a first round pick. Great Player but was he really that dominant to warrant such consideration? I think this is just media hype attached to his brother's name and success. Any other thoughts?

You are absolutely right. A few years ago you had to be an absolute freak to go in the first round as a guard. Pouncey is most definitely benefiting from his last name and the fact that his brother was a first round pick. He's not a first round talent as a guard or as a center.

killxswitch
03-09-2011, 12:27 PM
He's not an any round talent as a center. He is a OG only IMO. That doesn't make him a bad guard prospect, guards just don't go in the 1st when there are passers, pass rushers, and pass defenders of a similar talent level available.

Bradentonian
03-09-2011, 12:34 PM
Most of the best guards in the league are converted tackles anyway

bigbluedefense
03-09-2011, 12:35 PM
I hope the Giants stay away. We could use a Center but I really don't like any for the most part this year.

I like O'Dowd, but his injury history can be scary. Scouts don't seem all that high on O'Dowd though which worries me a little. Perhaps I'm overrating him.

A Perfect Score
03-09-2011, 12:39 PM
I don't even have him rated as my #1 OG. I like Ijalana and Watkins more.

This brings forth a really interesting discussion that we had in IRC a few weeks back about the importance of bloodlines in today's NFL. Mike isn't the player Maurkice was, and his position value is much lower because we've seen he can't play C. I have him as a mid 2nd round guy at the moment, but more and more hype is being built around him as a first round guy.

killxswitch
03-09-2011, 12:43 PM
I don't think he's as far away from his brother's talent level as far as blocking ability. He is a great guard and I think his bad year at center did him no favors. I would take him before Ijalana who I am concerned has the same lack of passion and attitude as Tony Ugoh. Watkins is a guy though that I can understand taking before Pouncey. If it wasn't for his age it might not even be close.

bigbluedefense
03-09-2011, 12:46 PM
He will be overdrafted regardless of where he plays. It's common with brothers of great players. Bloodlines are highly sought after in the NFL.

Look at Sinorice Moss in the 2nd as an example. I'm sure Casey Matthews will be overdrafted as well. Bobby Carpenter was overdrafted bc of bloodlines.

It's common.

A Perfect Score
03-09-2011, 12:47 PM
He will be overdrafted regardless of where he plays. It's common with brothers of great players. Bloodlines are highly sought after in the NFL.

Look at Sinorice Moss in the 2nd as an example. I'm sure Casey Matthews will be overdrafted as well. Bobby Carpenter was overdrafted bc of bloodlines.

It's common.

That was my argument as well, but IRC disagreed with me. Most specifically Deep, that silly bastard.

killxswitch
03-09-2011, 12:51 PM
Were the Andrews brothers another case of bloodlines marring draft boards? I seem to remember both being considered pretty good prospects but I don't remember when either were drafted.

Halsey
03-09-2011, 01:01 PM
Pouncey has something going for him that no other interior line prospect does: He's the indentical twin of one of the best rookie centers ever.

bigbluedefense
03-09-2011, 01:02 PM
Pouncey has something going for him that no other interior line prospect does: He's the indentical twin of one of the best rookie centers ever.

That's so overblown. Pouncey's rookie season has become ridiculously overrated. He was good, but he wasn't the demigod Pittsburgh fans and Peter King made him out to be

Halsey
03-09-2011, 01:06 PM
That's so overblown. Pouncey's rookie season has become ridiculously overrated. He was good, but he wasn't the demigod Pittsburgh fans and Peter King made him out to be

It's possible he's overrated. I don't spend my free time trying to scout centers, so I don't know from personal observation. However, it's not just King praising him. I've heard many people in and out of the NFL saying he's really really good. The Steelers sure didn't seem to like losing him for the Super Bowl.

bigbluedefense
03-09-2011, 01:10 PM
It's possible he's overrated. I don't spend my free time trying to scout centers, so I don't know from personal observation. However, it's not just King praising him. I've heard many people in and out of the NFL saying he's really really good. The Steelers sure didn't seem to like losing him for the Super Bowl.

Oh, he's good, no doubt. Very good and will be great one day. But people are already saying he's one of the top 3 Centers in the league, and that's just not accurate.

I'd watch Steeler games and hear about how he "dominated", but I'd specifically put the eyeball on him all game bc I was curious what the hype was about, and come away feeling that he had a good but not great game every time.

He got had just as much as he dished it out. I saw a good 6 Steeler games this year, so it's not like I'm basing this off of 1 game either.

Again, very good for a rookie, but way way overblown.

Iamcanadian
03-09-2011, 02:00 PM
I like O'Dowd, but his injury history can be scary. Scouts don't seem all that high on O'Dowd though which worries me a little. Perhaps I'm overrating him.

O'Dowd is very weak in his lower body and cannot stand up to the bull rush. He was completely dominated at the Senior Bowl practices by every DLman he faced.

Monomach
03-09-2011, 02:27 PM
Pouncey has something going for him that no other interior line prospect does: He's the indentical twin of one of the best rookie centers ever.

Not even close to true. It's a shame that he's going to make the pro bowl every year for his career based on the very vocal fans of a popular and successful team. My eyeballs confirm what the stat geeks came up with...he's middle of the pack with potential to be good.

As for Mike...he's not nearly as good as Maurkice. I've got him tagged as the #5 guard in this draft. That's why I get so pissed when people mock him to the Bears in the first.

Is there any 1st round Centers this year?The only one with a chance is Wiz. Other guys I could see being excellent centers but with no chance of going in the first are Watkins, Moffitt, and Hudson. O'Dowd could be too, but I have a hard time seeing him having a healthy career.

Don Vito
03-09-2011, 02:56 PM
I just had to look at the drafts to see what guards were drafted in the first since 1999.

2001
-Steve Hutchinson
-Leonard Davis (drafted to play LT though)

2004
-Shawn Andrews
-Robert Gallery (drafted to play LT)

2005
-Logan Mankins

2006
-Davin Joseph

2007
-Ben Grubbs

2008
-Chris Williams (drafted to play OT)
-Brandon Albert (college guard)

2009
-Eric Wood
-Andre Smith could end up at guard

2010
-Mike Iupati

Do you think Pouncey is on the level of any of those guys? I don't think so but he could be a good guard in the NFL, and if he is available when Pittsburgh picks I would be surprised if they passed on him. Ijalana and Cannon are also guys that could sneak into the first, possibly Wisniewski as a guard if someone sees that as his best fit.

It is pretty clear that interior linemen have been getting drafted earlier in recent years, I think Pouncey will go in the first.

Babylon
03-09-2011, 03:08 PM
I can't get a handle on either of them but I think Wisniewski will go before O'Dowd. Wizzy in the 2nd-3rd, O'Dowd 3rd or 4th?

O'Dowd to Seattle in the second wouldnt surprise (or dissapoint) me. There is always the conversation about so and so played for this guy or that. Historically it hardly ever works out but i think in this case it could. I know Pete always loved O'dowd.

jth1331
03-09-2011, 04:29 PM
He will be overdrafted regardless of where he plays. It's common with brothers of great players. Bloodlines are highly sought after in the NFL.

Look at Sinorice Moss in the 2nd as an example. I'm sure Casey Matthews will be overdrafted as well. Bobby Carpenter was overdrafted bc of bloodlines.

It's common.

A certain QB was way overdrafted due to bloodlines.

Mr. Eli Manning.

K Train
03-09-2011, 04:44 PM
i like him right around where i liked blalock a few years back...id take him at 31 for chemistry sake on the steelers line rather than not have a shot at him at 62

brasho
03-09-2011, 05:12 PM
Were the Andrews brothers another case of bloodlines marring draft boards? I seem to remember both being considered pretty good prospects but I don't remember when either were drafted.

One was a 1st rounder, the other a 5th, I think.


According to the original poster, there have been 4 OGs drafted in round 1 since 1999? That baffles me, why in the heck would ANYBODY draft an OG in round 1? Get a good but not great OT with good power but not quite enough length in round 4 and put him at OG.. better yet, don't draft one and find one as an UDFA like half the OGs are anyways. Pickig an OG in round 1 is just sooooooo STOOOPID!

descendency
03-09-2011, 05:16 PM
I wonder where Wiesnewski and O'Dowd fall.

Wisniewski is a high second at the latest (Raiders reportedly want him). O'Dowd struggled to anchor at the senior bowl, so there has been some concern there, I think of him as a definite day 3 prospect.

brasho
03-09-2011, 05:17 PM
I just had to look at the drafts to see what guards were drafted in the first since 1999.

2001
-Steve Hutchinson

2004
-Shawn Andrews

2005
-Logan Mankins

2006
-Davin Joseph

2007
-Ben Grubbs

2009
-Eric Wood

2010
-Mike Iupati

Do you think Pouncey is on the level of any of those guys? I don't think so but he could be a good guard in the NFL, and if he is available when Pittsburgh picks I would be surprised if they passed on him. Ijalana and Cannon are also guys that could sneak into the first, possibly Wisniewski as a guard if someone sees that as his best fit.

It is pretty clear that interior linemen have been getting drafted earlier in recent years, I think Pouncey will go in the first.

I tihnk you can eliminate the guys drafted to play OT... and the guy that was drafted as an OG to play OT...and if I'm not mistaken, Eric Wood was a collegiate OC... right? Can we eliminate him? For the most part, I think we can look at all but two guys as being failures in the NFL. Hutchinson and Mankins. Davin Joseph has been to a Pro Bowl.... but you draft an OG in round 1, that guy had better be all-pro or he's a failure in my book. Solid doesn't cut it in my book. Good OGs can be found on the waiver wire. Look at the starters on the Pro Bowl and All-Pro teams at OG, where were these guys drafted (I'm really asking because I hate the topic of drafting OGs in round 1 so much I can't stand to do the research... but I'd bet they would be pretty lowly drafted or not at all.

K Train
03-09-2011, 05:21 PM
if they arent faneca or hutchinson like or are drafted to play LT like albert (i valued him as a first round guard wayyyyy early on in the process) they usually arent first round picks....but i would hardly call it a wasted pick if pouncey went to the steelers at 31...anywhere else it might be looked at as a kind of baffling reach but putting him at LG or RG (id prefer left and move that fat piece of **** kemoeatu to RG) and next to his brother will be really appealing to the steelers

BUSTKUNTLAWL
03-09-2011, 05:30 PM
Is there any 1st round Centers this year?

I wonder where Wiesnewski and O'Dowd fall.

O'Dowd is barely draftable.

keylime_5
03-09-2011, 05:43 PM
I don't even have him rated as my #1 OG. I like Ijalana and Watkins more.

This brings forth a really interesting discussion that we had in IRC a few weeks back about the importance of bloodlines in today's NFL. Mike isn't the player Maurkice was, and his position value is much lower because we've seen he can't play C. I have him as a mid 2nd round guy at the moment, but more and more hype is being built around him as a first round guy.

I wonder how high Danny Watkins wouldve gone if he wasn't about to turn 27. Moreso, I wonder how far that will make him slide if at all.

Mike might not be as good as his brother, but he's still pretty darn good and is about as good of a prospect as you could want this year as a huge guard that can pull and run to the second level to make blocks. He has pretty good upside, I think he sneaks into round 1.

JFINK11
03-09-2011, 06:29 PM
I just had to look at the drafts to see what guards were drafted in the first since 1999.

2001
-Steve Hutchinson
-Leonard Davis (drafted to play LT though)

2004
-Shawn Andrews
-Robert Gallery (drafted to play LT)

2005
-Logan Mankins

2006
-Davin Joseph

2007
-Ben Grubbs

2008
-Chris Williams (drafted to play OT)
-Brandon Albert (college guard)

2009
-Eric Wood
-Andre Smith could end up at guard

2010
-Mike Iupati

Do you think Pouncey is on the level of any of those guys? I don't think so but he could be a good guard in the NFL, and if he is available when Pittsburgh picks I would be surprised if they passed on him. Ijalana and Cannon are also guys that could sneak into the first, possibly Wisniewski as a guard if someone sees that as his best fit.

It is pretty clear that interior linemen have been getting drafted earlier in recent years, I think Pouncey will go in the first.

I overlooked Iupati and Mankins for some reason but if a guy was drafted to play another position and then was moved, I dont think that counts. He will be drafted to play guard.

Andrews was also drafted to play tackle...and played their in college
Branden Albert was drafted to play tackle...

That leaves 5 total including Hutchinson...my point is Pouncey doesnt belong in that group. His name might elevate him but can't talent evaluators seperate a name from a player. I dont like him to the Steelers in the first round. I think if were going to go that route then trade down or dont draft him at all. I would prefer one of the top corners or tackles. If none fall, maybe reach on Sherrod or BPA route as we normally do.

rawdawg
03-09-2011, 08:56 PM
Wow, that down on Pouncey huh? As for his repuation being based on his brother, it's one thing if it's a brother, but Mike and Maurkice are from the same egg. You can't get a more similar player than that. Sure, Mike isn't going to be anywhere near the C that Maurkice was as a rookie, but Maurkice played C for how long? Mike played for a year.

By the way, I do think Mike can play C in the NFL. His major problems came with shotgun snaps. And most of those came early. Late in the year, he was much better. I also thought his blocking suffered because of focusing on snapping the ball out of the gun. I think he can be developed as a C.

But as a guard, what's not to like? He's big. Strong. He moves well, gets to the 2nd level as well as any guard I have seen in college this past year. He's a 3 year starter at the premier college football program in the premier conference. He has the experience, the production, the competition level, the pedigree, character, and the measurables.

rawdawg
03-09-2011, 08:59 PM
I overlooked Iupati and Mankins for some reason but if a guy was drafted to play another position and then was moved, I dont think that counts. He will be drafted to play guard.

Andrews was also drafted to play tackle...and played their in college
Branden Albert was drafted to play tackle...

That leaves 5 total including Hutchinson...my point is Pouncey doesnt belong in that group. His name might elevate him but can't talent evaluators seperate a name from a player. I dont like him to the Steelers in the first round. I think if were going to go that route then trade down or dont draft him at all. I would prefer one of the top corners or tackles. If none fall, maybe reach on Sherrod or BPA route as we normally do.

Different types of players, but Pouncey is every bit as talented as Iupati. Hard to say he doesn't belong in the same class with a player that had a very mediocre rookie year in SF.

rawdawg
03-09-2011, 09:16 PM
I tihnk you can eliminate the guys drafted to play OT... and the guy that was drafted as an OG to play OT...and if I'm not mistaken, Eric Wood was a collegiate OC... right? Can we eliminate him? For the most part, I think we can look at all but two guys as being failures in the NFL. Hutchinson and Mankins. Davin Joseph has been to a Pro Bowl.... but you draft an OG in round 1, that guy had better be all-pro or he's a failure in my book. Solid doesn't cut it in my book. Good OGs can be found on the waiver wire. Look at the starters on the Pro Bowl and All-Pro teams at OG, where were these guys drafted (I'm really asking because I hate the topic of drafting OGs in round 1 so much I can't stand to do the research... but I'd bet they would be pretty lowly drafted or not at all.

Your logic is severely flawed. Of the 6 probowl guards, 2 were top 35 picks, 2 were mid round picks, 2 were undrafted. Good OGs can be found on the waiver wire. True. But you can say that about any position.

Arian Foster- undrafted
Matt Cassel- 230th pick
Wes Welker- undrafted
Tyson Clabo- undrafted
Jay Ratliff- 224th pick
Brent Grimes- undrafted


That's from a quick glance at 2011 probowl rosters.

JFINK11
03-09-2011, 10:42 PM
Your logic is severely flawed. Of the 6 probowl guards, 2 were top 35 picks, 2 were mid round picks, 2 were undrafted. Good OGs can be found on the waiver wire. True. But you can say that about any position.

Arian Foster- undrafted
Matt Cassel- 230th pick
Wes Welker- undrafted
Tyson Clabo- undrafted
Jay Ratliff- 224th pick
Brent Grimes- undrafted


That's from a quick glance at 2011 probowl rosters.

Agreed but I think youre forgetting positional value. Guards are much less highy valued than the positions you are referring to. Failed tackles or centers can often be moved to gaurd generally. It's probably the most flexible or adjustable position in football. First round gaurds are a rarity. I dont feel he belongs in the first round range. Based upon prior history, I think he is more accurately rated a second round pick.

rawdawg
03-10-2011, 08:59 AM
Agreed but I think youre forgetting positional value. Guards are much less highy valued than the positions you are referring to. Failed tackles or centers can often be moved to gaurd generally. It's probably the most flexible or adjustable position in football. First round gaurds are a rarity. I dont feel he belongs in the first round range. Based upon prior history, I think he is more accurately rated a second round pick.

Well that's where we differ. Because I think he's a 1st rounder. He's as talented as Iupati was last year, but with more experience at G and played vs. a MUCH better level of competition. Iupati did have tremendous size though and upside. I don't see Pouncey getting past NE (twice), Philly, Indy, Chicago and Pittsburgh in the 1st. All have needs at OG, none of them (other than NE) will be able to get him in the 2nd. This is not a very deep OG class.

bitonti
03-10-2011, 09:11 AM
Pouncey has something going for him that no other interior line prospect does: He's the indentical twin of one of the best rookie centers ever.

+1 i'd argue that Mangold was better than Pouncey but regardless the man is a twin of an already proven success. I don't think Pouncey is a high first rounder but he makes an awful lot of sense to the Steelers at 31.

A Perfect Score
03-10-2011, 10:00 AM
Well that's where we differ. Because I think he's a 1st rounder. He's as talented as Iupati was last year, but with more experience at G and played vs. a MUCH better level of competition. Iupati did have tremendous size though and upside. I don't see Pouncey getting past NE (twice), Philly, Indy, Chicago and Pittsburgh in the 1st. All have needs at OG, none of them (other than NE) will be able to get him in the 2nd. This is not a very deep OG class.

No way is Pouncey in the same class as Iupati. He doesn't anchor nearly as well, doesn't move as well in space and isn't as dominant in his run blocking. Come on man, you're drinking the Kool Aid. Just because he's technically Maurkice's twin doesn't make him the exact same person or the exact same player, it doesn't even guarantee they are on the same physical level. There are a plurality of factors which could have influenced them their entire lives to make them different. Mike isn't as good as Maurkice was, and he certainly isn't on Iupati's level.

K Train
03-10-2011, 10:18 AM
No way is Pouncey in the same class as Iupati. He doesn't anchor nearly as well, doesn't move as well in space and isn't as dominant in his run blocking. Come on man, you're drinking the Kool Aid. Just because he's technically Maurkice's twin doesn't make him the exact same person or the exact same player, it doesn't even guarantee they are on the same physical level. There are a plurality of factors which could have influenced them their entire lives to make them different. Mike isn't as good as Maurkice was, and he certainly isn't on Iupati's level.

iupati was a project, drafted on massive, unreal size and potential. mike pouncey is 10 times more polished than iupati was or even is now. iupati didnt really do much in the offseason process besides be huge and have trouble with pass blocking and leverage. but since he can nearly flip a sled over he was drafted really high to a team desperate for a G to maul defenses away from frank gore

rawdawg
03-10-2011, 10:21 AM
No way is Pouncey in the same class as Iupati. He doesn't anchor nearly as well, doesn't move as well in space and isn't as dominant in his run blocking. Come on man, you're drinking the Kool Aid. Just because he's technically Maurkice's twin doesn't make him the exact same person or the exact same player, it doesn't even guarantee they are on the same physical level. There are a plurality of factors which could have influenced them their entire lives to make them different. Mike isn't as good as Maurkice was, and he certainly isn't on Iupati's level.

Can you point me to the place I said Mike is the exact same player as Maurkice? Didn't think so. And they pretty much are on the same physical level based on all the measurables.

I disagree that Pouncey doesn't move as well in space as Iupati. The dominant run blocking is a no brainer. Iupati has 50 lbs on him. But I think a team that likes to screen, trap, and get their guards on the move can't do much better than Mike Pouncey. That's what makes him a 1st rounder to me.

K Train
03-10-2011, 10:24 AM
yeah maurkice's ability to get to the second level as a center is unreal....his brother is very similar in that regard and moving back to guard he will be wayyy more effective at it imo. he might not be as silky smooth and technically sound as maurkice, but im pretty sure he has a little more functional strength and being at guard that will only help him

K Train
03-16-2011, 12:47 PM
I just had to look at the drafts to see what guards were drafted in the first since 1999.

2001
-Steve Hutchinson
-Leonard Davis (drafted to play LT though)

2004
-Shawn Andrews
-Robert Gallery (drafted to play LT)

2005
-Logan Mankins

2006
-Davin Joseph

2007
-Ben Grubbs

2008
-Chris Williams (drafted to play OT)
-Brandon Albert (college guard)

2009
-Eric Wood
-Andre Smith could end up at guard

2010
-Mike Iupati

Do you think Pouncey is on the level of any of those guys? I don't think so but he could be a good guard in the NFL, and if he is available when Pittsburgh picks I would be surprised if they passed on him. Ijalana and Cannon are also guys that could sneak into the first, possibly Wisniewski as a guard if someone sees that as his best fit.

It is pretty clear that interior linemen have been getting drafted earlier in recent years, I think Pouncey will go in the first.
Kendall Simmons in 02 as well

according to espn insider, pouncey has talked to several teams and expects to go anywhere from 15-20 in the draft...(jags and pats more notable ones) i dont buy that at all....hes simply not THAT dominant of a guard to warrant that kind of pick. i love him, i really do, and i would love the steelers to get him at 31 but i do think thats about 5-7 slots too high for him. he is my #1 guard but hes just not a guard in the mold of hutch or faneca that just dominated the world in college, and hes not branden albert that he can play LT, and hes not a dominant college LT like andrews and davis were that become mauling guards in the NFL. hes just a good player that plays an undervalued position in the first round

bitonti
03-16-2011, 12:52 PM
i sound like a broken record but the twin factor is gonna boost his stock 10-20 slots higher than he "should be" taken. Based on his film maybe he's a 3rd rounder. because he's the identical twin of a player that was pro bowl as a rookie... it's gonna be a huge boost. these NFL gms do not over think things, they will take a twin of an already proven player, no problem.

long story short he's the first interior lineman drafted.

K Train
03-16-2011, 12:58 PM
i feel like thats even kind of overblown...teams know hes not his brother as much as we do

bitonti
03-16-2011, 01:28 PM
i feel like thats even kind of overblown...teams know hes not his brother as much as we do

but he is his brother. genetically they are clones. for the same reason Chris Long goes #2 cause his dad is Howie, Pouncey's brother is a huge boost to his stock. He probably goes mid-1st round because of the "safety" in genes.

TACKLE
03-16-2011, 01:50 PM
Per Rotoworld

Florida G/C Mike Pouncey expects to be drafted between No. 15 and No. 20 in the first round next month.

As evidence, Pouncey points to upcoming visits with the Dolphins, Jags, Patriots, Giants, and Bucs. He'll kick off his visits Wednesday with a trip to Detroit. The Bears (No. 29) and Steelers (No. 31) are also believed to be interested in Pouncey.

Halsey
03-16-2011, 01:55 PM
I could be way off on this because I don't even try to scout interior lineman, but I can't help but wonder if media and fans are getting carried away by Pouncey's struggles at center this past season. Having some struggles after moving to center doesn't mean he can't become a very good NFL lineman. Even his detractors think he's worth a 2nd round pick. 2nd round is a very high grade for an interior lineman.

rawdawg
03-16-2011, 02:52 PM
I could be way off on this because I don't even try to scout interior lineman, but I can't help but wonder if media and fans are getting carried away by Pouncey's struggles at center this past season. Having some struggles after moving to center doesn't mean he can't become a very good NFL lineman. Even his detractors think he's worth a 2nd round pick. 2nd round is a very high grade for an interior lineman.

Yeah, I think it's a bunch of things. Because he had trouble snapping the ball (which I'm sure had to naturally affect his blocking), teams are a little down on him. But also don't discount that the stigma is there that because his brother came out early and Mike didn't, that Mike naturally must not be as good because he couldn't or didn't come out early last year.

He's not an absolute mauling guard at the point of attack, but he's one of the best guards on the move that I've seen in a long time. I think he's a first round talent, but even if he doesn't go in the 1st, he will still be the best OG in this draft class.

yourfavestoner
03-16-2011, 04:28 PM
Meanwhile, Pouncey shined as Patriots coach Bill Belichick and Jacksonville Jaguars (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/teams/jac/) general manager Gene Smith were in Gainesville.
Pouncey excelled in drills.
"He is everything you're looking for in an interior lineman," a scout said. "He's a carbon copy of his brother."


http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=nfp-20110315_slow_times_for_ahmad_black_big_day_for_mi ke_pouncey

BeerBaron
03-16-2011, 04:38 PM
A carbon copy except for snapping the ball it would seem.

Mr. Goosemahn
03-16-2011, 05:30 PM
A carbon copy except for snapping the ball it would seem.

According to Mike, most teams have had him work out at center, so if you combine both statements...he's been looking great at center?

The thing with guys like Maurkice and Mike is that they have all the athletic ability a team could ask for in offensive linemen, and they're not technically ********, like some of the more gifted physical specimens are. Not saying the Pounceys' are physical specimens, but they'll probably be some of the most athletic linemen in the league.

I'd have no problem with having both Pouncey's on a team, and believe it or not, I'd have no problem trading up for him. I just want him on the Steelers so badly...

AntoinCD
04-07-2011, 10:01 AM
So...as per Pouncey's twitter(@MikePouncey) he has stated

"Headed back to Pittsburgh. Would be shocked if I wasnt in a Dallas uniform next year".

He has also previously stated the advisory board and people he has talked to have given him a high first round grade.

Is anyone buying this? I mean I could realistically see him going in the high teens but top ten??? Even if the Cowboys get a chance to trade down, who knows if they would take him and how high.

I'm putting this down to him getting good feedback from his visit and getting ahead of himself, but is there a possible scenario where he goes that high, especially given the lack of top quality depth at OT? The Cowboys need offensive line help. If they think Pouncey is a better value than any of the OTs then I guess it kinda makes sense. Does anyone think this is worth any thought or is it just a young guy bigging himself up too much?

GaMeTiMe
04-07-2011, 10:08 AM
So...as per Pouncey's twitter(@MikePouncey) he has stated

"Headed back to Pittsburgh. Would be shocked if I wasnt in a Dallas uniform next year".

He has also previously stated the advisory board and people he has talked to have given him a high first round grade.

Is anyone buying this? I mean I could realistically see him going in the high teens but top ten??? Even if the Cowboys get a chance to trade down, who knows if they would take him and how high.

I'm putting this down to him getting good feedback from his visit and getting ahead of himself, but is there a possible scenario where he goes that high, especially given the lack of top quality depth at OT? The Cowboys need offensive line help. If they think Pouncey is a better value than any of the OTs then I guess it kinda makes sense. Does anyone think this is worth any thought or is it just a young guy bigging himself up too much?


He said the same thing about the Bears:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/ct-spt-0331-mike-pouncey-bears-chicag20110330,0,1557616.story

"Coach Tice told me he'd see me at training camp," Pouncey said. "Well, we'll see what happens."


Dallas would have to trade down, Chicago would have to trade up. I'm not sure which is more likely.

Maybe Dallas baits Detroit into a trade-up for Tyron Smith

ChiFan24
04-07-2011, 10:15 AM
I bet he goes top half of the first. Demand seems to be a lot higher than any of us anticipated. Pats at #17 is his floor IMO.

K Train
04-07-2011, 10:17 AM
him going above where maurkice went at 18 is just laugable to think about

AntoinCD
04-07-2011, 10:19 AM
I bet he goes top half of the first. Demand seems to be a lot higher than any of us anticipated. Pats at #17 is his floor IMO.

I think with defensive schemes changing and utilising more DEs as interior pass rushers, either by lining them up inside or with stunts the need for OGs with superior pass blocking skills has become more urgent. However they also need to be stout enough to play against the monster NTs in the 34 like Vince Wilfork, Haloti Ngata etc. LT is still obviously the premium position along the offensive line but the rest of the positions are catching up in terms of importance.

him going above where maurkice went at 18 is just laugable to think about

Why? This year's draft is clearly seen as inferior to last year's which was an extremely good draft. Lesser prospects will be drafted higher this year than they were last year.

K Train
04-07-2011, 10:26 AM
hes a good player, but hes still a guard and not one that usuallu warrants a first round pick, and not a top 15 pick thats for sure. taking him in the top half of the draft you are probably passing on some better players at more premier positions, but its not like your getting a bad player.

his home should be at 31...seems about the right value comparitively to his brother and would let him play with his brother and just create sexual magic on turf for the steelers.

i know hes gonna end up being a patriot or raven just to spite me though

AntoinCD
04-07-2011, 10:34 AM
I agree with some of the "experts" who are saying there are only around 20 prospects they would normally give a first round grade too. Normally I believe Pouncey would be a fringe first rounder but more likely a second rounder and because of the lack of quality he will be pushed up. If you look at the players between ten and twenty, a lot of them are either huge risks or players with relatively low ceilings. Best examples would be the OTs. You have Solder and Smith who are very risky and Castonzo and Carimi who don't have elite upside. Yet all four will probably be taken somewhere between 9 and 25. So does a team like the Pats at 17 take the risk of an Aldon Smith at OLB for example or settle for Anthony Castonzo at OT when they could take Pouncey who could be a pro bowl OG and isn't anywhere near as risky as some other players?

bitonti
04-07-2011, 10:39 AM
I bet he goes top half of the first. Demand seems to be a lot higher than any of us anticipated. Pats at #17 is his floor IMO.

agreed. The internetz are way off on this player. The fact of the matter is he's an identical twin of a pro bowl player. That's about as safe a pick as any of these GM will ever see. We can live to be 100 we probably aren't gonna see another situation like this, where 2 first round identical twins, playing the same position, go in different years, with one twin making the pro bowl before the other declares. on film he's a late 1/early 2 but the twin factor boosts his stock 10-15 slots. It wouldn't surprise me to see him go 14 to STL, 15 to MIA etc.

ChiFan24
04-07-2011, 10:46 AM
him going above where maurkice went at 18 is just laugable to think about

Not really....he's really not that much different, just a little less polished (and has a minor, correctable snapping problem). Not to mention, Maurkice set a good precedent for anyone named Pouncey, making Mike that much safer. It's weird, but when you think about it, it makes sense.

GaMeTiMe
04-07-2011, 10:58 AM
Not really....he's really not that much different, just a little less polished (and has a minor, correctable snapping problem). Not to mention, Maurkice set a good precedent for anyone named Pouncey, making Mike that much safer. It's weird, but when you think about it, it makes sense.

Not to mention Maurkice may have out-performed that #17 draft slot. He came with just as much risk as most other prospects, performed at a high level, and in turn probably made teams more confident in making Mike just as high if not higher of a pick.

Babylon
04-07-2011, 11:25 AM
He might have meant Dallas in the second round, to me that would be where he should go.

Shane P. Hallam
04-07-2011, 11:46 AM
Not really....he's really not that much different, just a little less polished (and has a minor, correctable snapping problem). Not to mention, Maurkice set a good precedent for anyone named Pouncey, making Mike that much safer. It's weird, but when you think about it, it makes sense.

Less polish, less strength, less football IQ. But yeah, not that much different :)

Wrathman
04-07-2011, 01:01 PM
Maybe Dallas baits Detroit into a trade-up for Tyron Smith

The Boys are more likely to deal down with someone who wants to move in front of Washington to grab Julio Jones.

D-Unit
04-07-2011, 01:03 PM
I don't see him as a first round pick.

Mike Pouncey is to Maurkice Pouncey as Robin Lopez is to Brook Lopez.

D-Unit
04-07-2011, 01:04 PM
The Boys are more likely to deal down with someone who wants to move in front of Washington to grab Julio Jones.
I wouldn't mind that at all, but is that just a hunch or what leads you to believe this?

Wrathman
04-07-2011, 01:04 PM
agreed. The internetz are way off on this player. The fact of the matter is he's an identical twin of a pro bowl player. That's about as safe a pick as any of these GM will ever see. We can live to be 100 we probably aren't gonna see another situation like this, where 2 first round identical twins, playing the same position, go in different years, with one twin making the pro bowl before the other declares. on film he's a late 1/early 2 but the twin factor boosts his stock 10-15 slots. It wouldn't surprise me to see him go 14 to STL, 15 to MIA etc.

Twins are twins - they aren't clones. They are different players and different people in spite of the similarities. Clearly the more talented one came out last year. Anyone pushing Mike up the board for the "twin factor" wasn't paying attention during their genetics courses...and hasn't watched enough tape.

K Train
04-07-2011, 01:15 PM
Less polish, less strength, less football IQ. But yeah, not that much different :)

i might be off here but i think mike might be a little stronger than maurkice

Iamcanadian
04-07-2011, 01:44 PM
You can forget all the negatives, this guy is starting to get top 15 talk by Mayock. He is now being projected as being perhaps better than his brother. These brothers are smart, tough son of a bi-ches and while OG isn't the best position to play if you want to go high in the draft, the weaknesses of the OT group is pushing Pouncey way up the charts.
He is a sure fire starter with All Pro potential which is more than you can say for every OT in this draft except Tyron Smith.
He's going top 20, that is almost a given at this point so you can forget the round 2 talk. He is a football player, forget the measurables, and he is going to be a solid pro.

niel89
04-07-2011, 07:50 PM
I don't see him as a first round pick.

Mike Pouncey is to Maurkice Pouncey as Robin Lopez is to Brook Lopez.

haha I like this comparison.

This sudden hype seems a little nuts to me. He is a good player and will be a solid contributer, but top 15? Is this guy better than Iupati last year?

rawdawg
04-07-2011, 09:06 PM
Less polish, less strength, less football IQ. But yeah, not that much different :)

I don't know how you confirm the football IQ part of it. But Mike started 3 years on Florida's OL. Maurkice started 3 years on Florida's OL before he came out. Polish seems about the same unless you are only comparing them as Centers which would be foolish.

As for strength, Mike benched 225lbs, 24 times. Maurkice benched it 25.

Mike ran slightly faster. Mike jumped slightly further. Mike showed better quickness in the 3-cone and shuttle based on their times.

Mike Pouncey is to Maurkice Pouncey as Robin Lopez is to Brook Lopez.

Do you honestly think Mike Pouncey is going to be barely hanging on in the league the way Brook Lopez is? That's purely insane.

DBNYDP
04-07-2011, 09:48 PM
hes a good player, but hes still a guard and not one that usuallu warrants a first round pick, and not a top 15 pick thats for sure. taking him in the top half of the draft you are probably passing on some better players at more premier positions, but its not like your getting a bad player.

his home should be at 31...seems about the right value comparitively to his brother and would let him play with his brother and just create sexual magic on turf for the steelers.

i know hes gonna end up being a patriot or raven just to spite me though
What the f does this mean.

JFINK11
04-18-2011, 11:17 AM
I don't know how you confirm the football IQ part of it. But Mike started 3 years on Florida's OL. Maurkice started 3 years on Florida's OL before he came out. Polish seems about the same unless you are only comparing them as Centers which would be foolish.

As for strength, Mike benched 225lbs, 24 times. Maurkice benched it 25.

Mike ran slightly faster. Mike jumped slightly further. Mike showed better quickness in the 3-cone and shuttle based on their times.



Do you honestly think Mike Pouncey is going to be barely hanging on in the league the way Brook Lopez is? That's purely insane.

That wasnt that man's point. His point is that too many people are connecting his brother's success to him. As far as measurables...Mike is a year older than his brother was doing the same drills and the football IQ can be derived from the fact Maurkice was the starting center when both were there and not him... Mike Pouncey is a great athletic lineman but before 25 is a reach and probably some team doing the "safe" pick philosophy.

zachsaints52
04-18-2011, 01:00 PM
Do you honestly think Mike Pouncey is going to be barely hanging on in the league the way Brook Lopez is? That's purely insane.

Brook Lopez barely hanging in the league? Wow.

rawdawg
04-18-2011, 07:48 PM
Brook Lopez barely hanging in the league? Wow.

Obviously that was a mistype. If you read the thread, it was pretty clear I meant Robin.

rawdawg
04-18-2011, 07:59 PM
That wasnt that man's point. His point is that too many people are connecting his brother's success to him. As far as measurables...Mike is a year older than his brother was doing the same drills and the football IQ can be derived from the fact Maurkice was the starting center when both were there and not him... Mike Pouncey is a great athletic lineman but before 25 is a reach and probably some team doing the "safe" pick philosophy.

How do you know what his point was? If that was his point, why didn't he say it? Or at least defend it when I responded?

But anyway, Maurkice was the starting C because Mike started off on the D-line. By the time Mike moved to OL, his brother was already entrenched at C. It wasn't because Maurkice has a better football IQ....which still hasn't been measured by the way.

And what difference does it make if he gets picked at 22 or 27? I think there's more people hung up on the whole "he's not his brother" thing, and can't fathom why he could possibly go higher than his brother. I will admit, he's not as good as Maurkice. I think that is clear. But this is a different, much weaker, draft class....and Mike is the best interior OL of this class.

Iamcanadian
04-19-2011, 01:10 AM
He's getting a lot of 15-20 talk because he is viewed as being as good as his brother and a sure fire starter. Will he be as good or even better, who knows, but to dismiss him as less than his brother certainly isn't being mentioned on NFLN.
Everybody said, Clay Matthews couldn't possibly be as good as the rest of his family, guess what, he just as good if not better.

JFINK11
04-19-2011, 03:51 PM
How do you know what his point was? If that was his point, why didn't he say it? Or at least defend it when I responded?

But anyway, Maurkice was the starting C because Mike started off on the D-line. By the time Mike moved to OL, his brother was already entrenched at C. It wasn't because Maurkice has a better football IQ....which still hasn't been measured by the way.

And what difference does it make if he gets picked at 22 or 27? I think there's more people hung up on the whole "he's not his brother" thing, and can't fathom why he could possibly go higher than his brother. I will admit, he's not as good as Maurkice. I think that is clear. But this is a different, much weaker, draft class....and Mike is the best interior OL of this class.

You can argue it but if Mike had a greater football IQ then I would have to believe he would've passed his brother on the depth chart at center and Maurkice wouldve been kicked out to guard. The most intelligent lineman should be at center unless the man in clearly miscasted to play center (example being a 6'5" plus tackle). Florida obviously valued center greater than guard because when Maurkice was gone they put Mike there. Leading me to believe they put the better player at that position.

Different Class? Yes. Weaker Class? I dont think so. It may not be as top heavy but depth wise I believe its a pretty strong draft from 20-40. Maybe some teams reach on quarterbacks in that range but most teams are going to get some solid players that are comparable or better than the players taken in that range last year. I also believe that Watkins is a better guard prospect. I mean would you rather have Jimmy Smith or Kareem Jackson? that just one example I see.

Smash28Dash34
04-19-2011, 04:11 PM
I would'nt take him in the first round either, but I doubt he will fall out of the first round. He is strictly a RG only imo. He struggled at C with the snaps and moving over to help the guards. He would probably struggle at LG as well, since run blocking is more of his strength. He will also need help vs 1 gap defenses. Despite all this, his name alone is the reason why he probably will be picked in the late 1st round.

Ozzy
04-19-2011, 05:35 PM
Why is everyone so convinced hes going to be a first round pick. Great Player but was he really that dominant to warrant such consideration? I think this is just media hype attached to his brother's name and success. Any other thoughts?It is his twins name, identical twins. The apple does not fall far from the tree. Mike is just as athletic and just as strong as his brother. Clearly his center playing skills are suspect, but at guard he could be really outstanding. And yes it has a lot to do with his brothers success, but to say Mike is not talented just like his brother is just incorrect. The guy is the best guard in the draft and a lot of teams in the 1st round might take him. So yes he is a 1st round talent for sure.

If you were talking distant cousins then yes that is not a real connection there, but no they are identical twins.

YoJoeBucsFan
04-20-2011, 08:28 AM
I just had to look at the drafts to see what guards were drafted in the first since 1999.

2001
-Steve Hutchinson
-Leonard Davis (drafted to play LT though)

2004
-Shawn Andrews
-Robert Gallery (drafted to play LT)

2005
-Logan Mankins

2006
-Davin Joseph

2007
-Ben Grubbs

2008
-Chris Williams (drafted to play OT)
-Brandon Albert (college guard)

2009
-Eric Wood
-Andre Smith could end up at guard

2010
-Mike Iupati

Do you think Pouncey is on the level of any of those guys? I don't think so but he could be a good guard in the NFL, and if he is available when Pittsburgh picks I would be surprised if they passed on him. Ijalana and Cannon are also guys that could sneak into the first, possibly Wisniewski as a guard if someone sees that as his best fit.

It is pretty clear that interior linemen have been getting drafted earlier in recent years, I think Pouncey will go in the first.

Davin Joseph is less than good.

JFINK11
04-25-2011, 04:33 PM
I don't see him as a first round pick.

Mike Pouncey is to Maurkice Pouncey as Robin Lopez is to Brook Lopez.

Can any argument about Mike Pouncey being good because his "identical twin" is be referenced to this comment? Great Comment D-Unit

FordFairlane
04-25-2011, 04:57 PM
Pouncey will not fall past #31. The Steelers would jump all over having the Pouncey brothers on the team. If he would of been playing LG on the play Kemo got blown up into Bens face for the pick six that wouldn't of happened and they win the game. That is how important a guard is.