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View Full Version : Ohio might get a USC type Punishment


dannyz
03-21-2011, 11:33 PM
This could be one of the big stories about to Break.http://sportales.com/football/sources-reveal-that-osu-will-recieve-major-sanctions/

* All victories from the 2009 and 2010 season will be vacated
* Will not be televised for the 2011 season
* Will not be allowed to partake in post season bowl games for 2011 or 2012.
* Will lose 10 scholarships in 2011, and 5 per year in 2012 and 2013.
I will be pissed if they don't put the Ohio State - Nebraska Game on TV.

JoeJoeBrown
03-22-2011, 09:27 AM
This link is about as stupid as it gets. It's just some guy hypothesizing.

And dannyz, it's Ohio State. Ohio is a different school all together.

HindSight
03-22-2011, 10:53 AM
they really swung for the fences on that one

dannyz
03-22-2011, 12:26 PM
I just saw it and posted it here.

P-L
03-22-2011, 01:30 PM
There is no way that's true. That would be the harshest punishment the NCAA has handed out since the SMU death penalty. Why would Ohio State have to vacate 2009 wins when all of the violations happened in 2010?

iowatreat54
03-22-2011, 01:35 PM
Just curious, how would the NCAA enforce them not being on TV? I mean for like the BTN they could, but what if like NBC wants to show the game? The NCAA would have absolutely no way to punish NBC for showing the game, would they?

Maybe if it's a network that has other contracts with the NCAA/schools (like NBC with ND) they could have something in those that they can do something, but I just don't get how that can be enforced..

descendency
03-22-2011, 02:00 PM
Ohio is a different school all together.

But every group of graduates spell O-H-I-O :(

---

This article is BS. I hate tOSU as much as most michigan fans, but literally no one else is even willing to speculate this is coming. It's just something they made up.

edit: When the article was first posted, it was full of spelling errors and such. No respectable journalist would ever release a story with that many errors.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
03-22-2011, 02:21 PM
There is no way that's true. That would be the harshest punishment the NCAA has handed out since the SMU death penalty. Why would Ohio State have to vacate 2009 wins when all of the violations happened in 2010?

Because **** OSU, that's why.

marks01234
04-09-2011, 11:50 PM
There is no way that's true. That would be the harshest punishment the NCAA has handed out since the SMU death penalty. Why would Ohio State have to vacate 2009 wins when all of the violations happened in 2010?

UNC is going to set the new standard as far as punishments.

OSU won't be to far behind though.

wicket
04-10-2011, 02:13 AM
Just curious, how would the NCAA enforce them not being on TV? I mean for like the BTN they could, but what if like NBC wants to show the game? The NCAA would have absolutely no way to punish NBC for showing the game, would they?

Maybe if it's a network that has other contracts with the NCAA/schools (like NBC with ND) they could have something in those that they can do something, but I just don't get how that can be enforced..

well its pretty easy, Ohio State would have to accept the film crews on campus so they have it pretty easy for home games, road games might be a tougher story

yodabear
04-10-2011, 01:36 PM
And that TV thing would be stupid as ****. Why punish the other teams like Nebraska, Michigan, Wisconsin, and others by not putting them on TV when they nothing wrong?

wordofi
04-10-2011, 07:22 PM
Kind of surprising that they didn't wait until they started to suck like they did with USC.

cajuncorey
04-10-2011, 10:08 PM
cheat to win!

Tom Servo
04-12-2011, 11:38 PM
Wouldn't matter. Bucks would still own the Big Ten.

CrankthatCrabtree
04-25-2011, 11:55 PM
Its a hard rain a coming in tOSU.

Tressel shows what a ************* scumbag he is. So awesome. All those tOSU snobs who would stick their nose up at the SEC can now choke on a dick

FUNBUNCHER
05-23-2011, 11:17 PM
For Tressel covering up that he had players selling merchandize to pay for tattoos?? LOL

No way OSU gets that level of disciplinary action from the NCAA.

CashmoneyDrew
05-23-2011, 11:35 PM
For Tressel covering up that he had players selling merchandize to pay for tattoos?? LOL

No way OSU gets that level of disciplinary action from the NCAA.

You should probably read up a little more on the story if you think that's all that is going on here.

j05son
05-24-2011, 08:59 AM
You should probably read up a little more on the story if you think that's all that is going on here.

You should probably realize that this article was posted by

Published on March 20, 2011 by cybertruth in Football

all behold the journalistic powers of cybertruth!

Shane P. Hallam
05-24-2011, 09:08 AM
Cybertruth owns my soul

soybean
07-22-2011, 07:35 PM
This is ridiculous. Now I know the tatoo scandal is no where near as severe a crime as the reggie bush case BUT it is proven and shown that Tressell KNEW about it and tried to hide it.

It was never proved that any of the USC coaches had any knowledge of the crime.

"Considering the institution's rules education and monitoring efforts, the enforcement staff did not believe a failure to monitor charge was appropriate in this case," the NCAA said in the letter sent Thursday.

you NCAA

keylime_5
07-22-2011, 08:12 PM
tressel himself on one account of lying to the NCAA is not the equivalent of all the stuff that went on at USC where the coaches and administrators frequently turned a blind eye to the things going on there. So far all the NCAA has and has ever had on Ohio State in this investigation is the Tatt-5, everything else is just a bunch of **** from the media as a result of SI and ESPN digging as hard as they could for a story but coming up short with a bunch of stuff without proof or proven false. We have 5 guys selling memorabilia for tattoos or cash and then Tressel (who is no longer employed) covering it up. That is not in the vicinity of the USC scandal.

JoeJoeBrown
07-22-2011, 08:24 PM
tressel himself on one account of lying to the NCAA is not the equivalent of all the stuff that went on at USC where the coaches and administrators frequently turned a blind eye to the things going on there. So far all the NCAA has and has ever had on Ohio State in this investigation is the Tatt-5, everything else is just a bunch of **** from the media as a result of SI and ESPN digging as hard as they could for a story but coming up short with a bunch of stuff without proof or proven false. We have 5 guys selling memorabilia for tattoos or cash and then Tressel (who is no longer employed) covering it up. That is not in the vicinity of the USC scandal.

Not to mention that OSU gave the NCAA the emails. There was one man covering it up. That man is no longer employed and the season that benefited from it was wiped out. And the players involved are suspended for five games.

The people getting mislead by the meatheads in the media need to realize that most of the media are just filling dead air with conjecture, without real thought or insight. They are just parrotting a storyline.

Now, do I personally believe that JT didn't tell the athletic department? No, I do not. If he had told them, then the onus wouldn't be on him, but on the AD. And that would definitely have led to a lack of institutional control (LOIC). And that would have been USC type sanctions or worse.

I think JT fell on the sword on this one.

What a dirty sport.

soybean
07-23-2011, 04:28 AM
tressel himself on one account of lying to the NCAA is not the equivalent of all the stuff that went on at USC where the coaches and administrators frequently turned a blind eye to the things going on there. So far all the NCAA has and has ever had on Ohio State in this investigation is the Tatt-5, everything else is just a bunch of **** from the media as a result of SI and ESPN digging as hard as they could for a story but coming up short with a bunch of stuff without proof or proven false. We have 5 guys selling memorabilia for tattoos or cash and then Tressel (who is no longer employed) covering it up. That is not in the vicinity of the USC scandal.

There's no proof that anyone turned a blind eye just a bunch of assumptions (even if true). No credible evidence whereas you have undeniable proof that the lead guy in charge attempted up to cover up the crime.

Sloopy
07-23-2011, 08:48 AM
There's no proof that anyone turned a blind eye just a bunch of assumptions (even if true). No credible evidence whereas you have undeniable proof that the lead guy in charge attempted up to cover up the crime.

... you mad bro?

Sloopy
07-23-2011, 08:49 AM
No but really what went on at USC involved multiple athletes in multiple sports, thats why the NCAA came down so hard on them. To put what went on at THE Ohio State University in the same breath is laughable.

JoeJoeBrown
07-23-2011, 10:53 AM
No but really what went on at USC involved multiple athletes in multiple sports, thats why the NCAA came down so hard on them. To put what went on at THE Ohio State University in the same breath is laughable.

They also denied that they did anything wrong and hid stuff.

OSU (on the face, and that face was accepted by the NCAA) was cooperative.

Plus they weren't repeat offenders.

Plus (like I said above), there was no LOIC charge.

SI and ESPN can suck a nut.

keylime_5
07-23-2011, 11:21 AM
everything the NCAA found at Ohio State was self-reported. Even Tressel lying was self-reported. USC didn't self-report a thing, it was all uncovered by external investigation. Plus there was a lot more than just the isolated tatt-5 incident. Having a star recruit's family get a big break on housing benefits is a little bigger eh?

JoeJoeBrown
07-25-2011, 08:27 AM
Excellent write up of the media's handling of the situation.

Click me. (http://www.the-ozone.net/football/2011/Tresselaffair/nationenraged.html)

SickwithIt1010
07-25-2011, 08:56 AM
What a ****** joke this situation is.

JoeJoeBrown
07-25-2011, 11:08 AM
What a ****** joke this situation is.

Assuming that you mean that it's a joke that OSU is going to "get away" with their coach getting fired, their star QB fired, 4 other players suspended for 5 games, and two years of probation, then you have got be kidding me.

The NCAA may add a year or two of probation. Maybe a year or two of a couple of pulled schollies.

But all of this for some tattoos and the coach covering it up seems fair. There are no other infractions or facts that have been smeared by some dolts with an agenda in the media.

Can you please denounce anything in that article I linked? USC denied and buried their issues. OSU did not. There were over 30 major violations at USC, at OSU, there were 5. USC had serious problems in both football and basketball.

I understand that it's sometimes hard to rationally process information and filter the hyperbole from the facts. The media is powerful that way.

In very few ways was the USC situation like OSU's.

Again, all of this idiocy can be avoided by legitimizing the paying of players. It already happens, and it needs to be regulated and done cleanly, to eliminate the shady characters.

SickwithIt1010
07-25-2011, 12:31 PM
They got off with NO "lack of institutional control" are you ******* kidding me? Their coach KNEW of rules they have broken and kept it to himself for months. He KNEW he was playing ineligible players because he was holding it back!

USC got these sanctions due to one player, they know of at least 5 from OSU.

The fact of the matter is that OSU got off really ****** easy for what they did, if youre going to lay the hammer down on USC, you better do it to everyone.

Sloopy
07-25-2011, 01:06 PM
They got off with NO "lack of institutional control" are you ******* kidding me? Their coach KNEW of rules they have broken and kept it to himself for months. He KNEW he was playing ineligible players because he was holding it back!

USC got these sanctions due to one player, they know of at least 5 from OSU.

The fact of the matter is that OSU got off really ****** easy for what they did, if youre going to lay the hammer down on USC, you better do it to everyone.

USC got Lack of Institutional Control because the entire ahtletic department was corrupt. An institution does not refer to one man (Jim Tressel), in fact, believe it or not institution refers to an institution for example: a scummy athletic department (USC AD). THE Ohio State Universities athletic department opened up their books to the NCAA and self reported, USC tried to hide it.

As far as one player... the NCAA imposed sanctions against USC because of violations involving MULTIPLE players in MULTIPLE sports. Last time I checked "multiple" implies more than just one.

but by all means keep hatin ;)

keylime_5
07-25-2011, 01:08 PM
the coach is gone and lighter in the wallet as well, the five players who broke the rules are suspended for 5 games and have to pay the money back to a charity that they made off of selling their memorabilia, the 2010 season was vacated, and the program is on 2 years probation. it's not like they got off scot-free. USC broke 31 by-laws, OSU broke 5...and unlike USC, OSU invited the NCAA in after self-reporting the incident. the OSU/USC comparisons are just a media created thing, everytime a school gets in trouble for major violations from now on they will be compared to USC unjustly.

YAYareaRB
07-25-2011, 01:18 PM
crime doesn't fit the punishment(s)

SickwithIt1010
07-25-2011, 01:29 PM
USC got Lack of Institutional Control because the entire ahtletic department was corrupt. An institution does not refer to one man (Jim Tressel), in fact, believe it or not institution refers to an institution for example: a scummy athletic department (USC AD). THE Ohio State Universities athletic department opened up their books to the NCAA and self reported, USC tried to hide it.

As far as one player... the NCAA imposed sanctions against USC because of violations involving MULTIPLE players in MULTIPLE sports. Last time I checked "multiple" implies more than just one.

but by all means keep hatin ;)

A year after the fact? Real good self policing.

Typical NCAA though...big 10 and SEC players members get off with a slap on the wrist.

JoeJoeBrown
07-25-2011, 01:32 PM
They got off with NO "lack of institutional control" are you ******* kidding me? Their coach KNEW of rules they have broken and kept it to himself for months. He KNEW he was playing ineligible players because he was holding it back!

USC got these sanctions due to one player, they know of at least 5 from OSU.

The fact of the matter is that OSU got off really ****** easy for what they did, if youre going to lay the hammer down on USC, you better do it to everyone.

So you didn't read the article or are neglecting to address the points of difference?

I understand that you are a fan of USC and that it bothers you that the school got hit moderately hard. But there are many reasons for that, the primary one is that AD was aware of some serious issues and did nothing to address them. Moreover, the AD denied that there were issues once the NCAA became involved. That is LOIC.

LOIC doesn't mean that there will be no issues. It is how the AD responds to the issues when the arise.

The story is that JT didn't tell anyone in the OSU AD (i.e. compliance). This is the story line so that the AD didn't have an LOIC because they didn't know about the Tat5 because JT didn't tell them. I don't necessarily believe the narrative, but the facts are consistent with that narrative.

Again, look at the facts, Sick. The NCAA can only stick with the facts when dealing with violations and punishment.

Sloopy
07-25-2011, 01:39 PM
A year after the fact? Real good self policing.

Typical NCAA though...big 10 and SEC players members get off with a slap on the wrist.

ROFL

THE Ohio State University athletic department suspended the players for the first 5 games of the following season as soon as they found out, so actually not a year later and the NCAA knew about the violations and the self imposed punishment and accepted the punishment. THEN, they self imposed further sanctions after it was found Tressel knew before they did.

again... the university of sexual ballers was a corrupt INSTITUTION and there for got slapped with lack of institutional control. THE Ohio State University opened up completely to the NCAA and the ONLY thing they found was what had already been self-reported and self-policed. The fact that nothing else was found says a lot considering the things going on at other universities around the country INCLUDING USC

also again... stay mad

JoeJoeBrown
07-25-2011, 01:40 PM
A year after the fact? Real good self policing.

Typical NCAA though...big 10 and SEC players members get off with a slap on the wrist.

You must be intentionally missing the point. The AD opened it's books only when JT told them that he had some phone calls and emails with Cicero (the lawyer involved in the FBI case). JT told the AD in January. They self reported right after that. When the self reported, someone leaked that info to Yahoo!

Please get your facts straight.

If your baseball coach committed a crime six months ago, and you just found out and the cops were after you, would you be in trouble for the six month lag? Or would you be fine because you reported the info when you found out about it?

You don't seem to understand what LOIC means. The USC AD, from the top down, went into denial mode and tried to bury all facts. The NCAA was able to demonstrate that the AD knew about the issues at USC and did nothing to stop them and they let the environment that spawned them exist.

That's why USC has a new athletic director. That's why Pete Carroll took off in the middle of the night. There were systemic problems that the AD did nothing to rectify and even worse off, tried to bury evidence of. The AD was brazenly defiant the whole way. Amazing how cocky that douchebag was.

JoeJoeBrown
07-25-2011, 11:34 PM
Here's an excellent summary of the findings by a non-OSU guy. A guy that actually was slamming OSU the whole way until he read the report.

Aaron Torres (http://aarontorres-sports.com/articles/college-football/myth-busting-the-ncaas-report-on-ohio-state.html)

Not only did it not appear that Ohio State wasn’t going to get hit with major sanctions, quite frankly, it doesn't appear they should be. If anything, Ohio State was running an Athletics Department, gulp, about as efficiently as you can.

And my favorite, for some of the posters here:
Myth No. 3: Ohio State Should’ve Done More!

Umm, no they shouldn’t have. Quite frankly, I’m not sure they could have. Simply put, anyone who is still saying that Ohio State “could’ve or should've done more,” is either an idiot, or didn't read the report. In some cases both (No offense).

YAYareaRB
07-26-2011, 02:55 PM
i dont think they should be any more punished then they already have been. losing those 5 players MIGHT mean 5 losses, but losing Pryor AND Tressel kinda seals the deal that they wont be winning anymore.

i think the guys at fault here are the ones that won't be playing for the first 5 games and Jim Tressel. he lost his job for his wrong. i dont think the whole athletic department should be punished for these guys.

with that said, i think USC was hit too hard. but then again, i never understood why NCAA punishes teams NOW for what happened 4-5 years ago. i know they should still be punished but your punishing kids that had nothing to do with the issue. take away bush's heisman, forfeit seasons, place the department(and anyone who knew) on probation. fine people. i dont know

Sloopy
07-26-2011, 03:21 PM
i dont think they should be any more punished then they already have been. losing those 5 players MIGHT mean 5 losses, but losing Pryor AND Tressel kinda seals the deal that they wont be winning anymore.

i think the guys at fault here are the ones that won't be playing for the first 5 games and Jim Tressel. he lost his job for his wrong. i dont think the whole athletic department should be punished for these guys.

with that said, i think USC was hit too hard. but then again, i never understood why NCAA punishes teams NOW for what happened 4-5 years ago. i know they should still be punished but your punishing kids that had nothing to do with the issue. take away bush's heisman, forfeit seasons, place the department(and anyone who knew) on probation. fine people. i dont know

I would almost be willing to say Pryor leaving helps our chances in those five games, never really liked him. It's a tough call but I wouldn't say its a definite that we lose those 5 games, we are favored to win the Big Ten and are predicted to be ranked in the top 10 in the country

YAYareaRB
07-26-2011, 03:39 PM
I would almost be willing to say Pryor leaving helps our chances in those five games, never really liked him. It's a tough call but I wouldn't say its a definite that we lose those 5 games, we are favored to win the Big Ten and are predicted to be ranked in the top 10 in the country

i dont think you keep the ranking and all the preseason accolades and predictions when you lose your starting RB, WR, LT for five games and your head coach and starting QB for the season.

it would be amazing to think its possible for you guys to win the big 10. but, given the suspensions, i'd say its Nebraskas conference to lose

mellojello
07-26-2011, 03:46 PM
There is a lot of misinformation being posted here about what SC was sanctioned for by the NCAA, particularly by the Ohio St. contingent. Ohio St. is not any "cleaner" of a program than SC was during the Pete Carroll era. Congrats to Ohio St. fans, I think you should be happy with the outcome. To SC fans, oh well, life isn't fair, but life goes on.

YAYareaRB
07-26-2011, 04:06 PM
There is a lot of misinformation being posted here about what SC was sanctioned for by the NCAA, particularly by the Ohio St. contingent. Ohio St. is not any "cleaner" of a program than SC was during the Pete Carroll era. Congrats to Ohio St. fans, I think you should be happy with the outcome. To SC fans, oh well, life isn't fair, but life goes on.

please elaborate

Sloopy
07-26-2011, 04:13 PM
There is a lot of misinformation being posted here about what SC was sanctioned for by the NCAA, particularly by the Ohio St. contingent. Ohio St. is not any "cleaner" of a program than SC was during the Pete Carroll era. Congrats to Ohio St. fans, I think you should be happy with the outcome. To SC fans, oh well, life isn't fair, but life goes on.

Stating that there is misinformation being posted with no follow up of claimed "correct" information = fail. Follow that up with a claim that THE Ohio State University is unclean without any quantifying information makes you no better than the here-say and fodder being spread by the talking heads on TV. You should be an intern at ESPN there friend your on the right track.

I am happy with the outcome. I think that the NCAA did the right thing here in not imposing further punishment, considering no further claims of violations were found to be true and we opened up our books. If we had self reported and got slammed there would be no incentive for any future teams to self report.

JoeJoeBrown
07-26-2011, 04:43 PM
I am happy with the outcome. I think that the NCAA did the right thing here in not imposing further punishment, considering no further claims of violations were found to be true and we opened up our books. If we had self reported and got slammed there would be no incentive for any future teams to self report.

Clarification: The NCAA said there were no further infractions. They issue the punishment in August (I think the 12th). There may be further punishment, but likely not egregiously worse than what has already occurred.

Sloopy
07-26-2011, 04:48 PM
Clarification: The NCAA said there were no further infractions. They issue the punishment in August (I think the 12th). There may be further punishment, but likely not egregiously worse than what has already occurred.

I'm assuming that we lose a few scholarships here, just because the NCAA will have to have the last word.

YAYareaRB
07-26-2011, 05:03 PM
its funny to think that these two teams are the only few to get caught.

mellojello
07-26-2011, 05:39 PM
please elaborateI'd rather not since it doesn't change anything, but since you asked Yay...

“USC didn’t self-report a thing, it was all uncovered by external investigaion” – 100% False

“USC got Lack of Institutional Control because the entire athletic department was corrupt.” - Ummm, I didn’t read that in the NCAA report, nothing in the report even suggested any sort of culture of corruption. Instead, one of the main premises of the NCAA report was that SC, with great power, had a “greater responsibility” than they demonstrated. This theme was repeated over and over in the report and effectively, this was the standard set in the report.

“As far as one player... the NCAA imposed sanctions against USC because of violations involving MULTIPLE players in MULTIPLE sports.” - The basketball violation was self-reported. If you want to include a female swimmer using the telephone to call her parents in Europe, then yes, it was multiple sports/violations. This was also self-reported, fyi.

“The NCAA was able to demonstrate that the AD knew about the issues at USC and did nothing to stop them and they let the environment that spawned them exist.” – Completely false. I didn’t read this in the NCAA report either, but please cite where you are getting this from. What did Mike Garrett or the president know about and not stop?

“That's why Pete Carroll took off in the middle of the night.” Wtf??? USC was under investigation for FOUR years and Pete Carroll was there the entire time!
“There were systemic problems that the AD did nothing to rectify and even worse off, tried to bury evidence of.” – Please cite where the NCAA accuses USC of burying evidence?

For those who have read the NCAA report, the only direct evidence that links the USC coaches/administration to the Bush scandal is a two minute cell phone bill by one of Bush’s supposed wannabe agents and the running back coach, Todd McNair. That is not overwhelming evidence in my mind.

Anyone who has ever spoken to a NCAA football player knows that at any given time, athletes are in violation of some rule. If a football players sells their textbooks at the end of the year, that's a violation, but everyone does it. Thinking that SC is the evil empire and your school has a halo over its head is just ignorant.

mellojello
07-26-2011, 05:42 PM
its funny to think that these two teams are the only few to get caught.I've wondered, why now?

YAYareaRB
07-26-2011, 06:01 PM
I've wondered, why now?

im thinking the NCAA is tired of getting the covers pulled over their eyes and now come down on anyone that has violations.

and thanks for the write up elaboration. USC was getting strawman'd up the wazzoo.

Sloopy
07-26-2011, 06:03 PM
I'd rather not since it doesn't change anything, but since you asked Yay...

“USC didn’t self-report a thing, it was all uncovered by external investigaion” – 100% False

“USC got Lack of Institutional Control because the entire athletic department was corrupt.” - Ummm, I didn’t read that in the NCAA report, nothing in the report even suggested any sort of culture of corruption. Instead, one of the main premises of the NCAA report was that SC, with great power, had a “greater responsibility” than they demonstrated. This theme was repeated over and over in the report and effectively, this was the standard set in the report.

“As far as one player... the NCAA imposed sanctions against USC because of violations involving MULTIPLE players in MULTIPLE sports.” - The basketball violation was self-reported. If you want to include a female swimmer using the telephone to call her parents in Europe, then yes, it was multiple sports/violations. This was also self-reported, fyi.

“The NCAA was able to demonstrate that the AD knew about the issues at USC and did nothing to stop them and they let the environment that spawned them exist.” – Completely false. I didn’t read this in the NCAA report either, but please cite where you are getting this from. What did Mike Garrett or the president know about and not stop?

“That's why Pete Carroll took off in the middle of the night.” Wtf??? USC was under investigation for FOUR years and Pete Carroll was there the entire time!
“There were systemic problems that the AD did nothing to rectify and even worse off, tried to bury evidence of.” – Please cite where the NCAA accuses USC of burying evidence?

For those who have read the NCAA report, the only direct evidence that links the USC coaches/administration to the Bush scandal is a two minute cell phone bill by one of Bush’s supposed wannabe agents and the running back coach, Todd McNair. That is not overwhelming evidence in my mind.

Anyone who has ever spoken to a NCAA football player knows that at any given time, athletes are in violation of some rule. If a football players sells their textbooks at the end of the year, that's a violation, but everyone does it. Thinking that SC is the evil empire and your school has a halo over its head is just ignorant.

http://sports.espn.go.com/los-angeles/ncb/news/story?id=4816942

At no point did USC self report anything. They DID self impose sanctions but did not self report.

http://sports.espn.go.com/los-angeles/ncf/news/story?id=5234097

Here it states USC's position that no major violation occurred involving Reggie Bush and that their ultimate goal was to not be found having lack of institutional control due to major violations occurring within five years of each other and the current investigation into O.J. Mayo receiving improper benefits. Doesn't exactly sound like self-reporting to me

http://www.nwcn.com/sports/NCAA-Findings-and-Penalties-on-USC-Athletics-Program-96096329.html

Here is a list of the MULTIPLE violations involving MULTIPLE USC athletes, and the phone call you mentioned earlier from and athlete to parents must have been a long one as it totaled nearly $7,000

This is what we call citing sources and information to back up our argument

YAYareaRB
07-26-2011, 06:10 PM
IUH3JQjcweM

keylime_5
07-26-2011, 06:42 PM
ohio state would've gotten away with it all if it hadn't been for the FBI raiding the tattoo owner's house and finding all that sold memorabilia. Tressel would still be here, Pryor would stilll be here, no suspensions, OSU would be preseason top 2. darn pesky FBI. Imagine how much stuff like that other programs get away with.

JoeJoeBrown
07-26-2011, 07:32 PM
ohio state would've gotten away with it all if it hadn't been for the FBI raiding the tattoo owner's house and finding all that sold memorabilia. Tressel would still be here, Pryor would stilll be here, no suspensions, OSU would be preseason top 2. darn pesky FBI. Imagine how much stuff like that other programs get away with.

Well, the FBI is involved in a major case surrounding the biggest Auburn booster out there. And the NCAA told Chizik that they weren't through investigating them.

But to your main point, yes, teams pretty much get away with cheating like crazy.

To mello, never at any point did I think OSU was angelic. They cheat. Like YAY says, Corrupt College Football Team Is Corrupt.

Sweatervest pretty much smacked down your lack of sources, so I'm not going to waste my time refuting until you cite yours. 31 majors across multiple sports over multiple years. Most of which the AD should have prevented or reacted to once made aware of. (AD: You mean Reggie Bush can't go work for a sports agency?) Their compliance department was woefully understaffed.

Other than the magnitude and spread of the problems, the major difference is how the departments reacted. You are in denial if you don't think that USC sat on info for years regarding infractions vs handing the info over to the NCAA.

OTOH, most of this stuff is asinine and stupid. WTF are these things violations? Cheating is all a matter of perspective. Have the ability to legally pay those kids and things will improve. It's an insane business where you have a billions of dollars industry where the star employees are paid a pittance, and that pittance is the exact same no matter how well you perform.

So no, I don't think USC is OMG evil. Nor is OSU. But there is a logical reason other than OMG THE NCAA HATEZ USC to treat the two differently.

mellojello
07-26-2011, 10:45 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/los-angeles/ncb/news/story?id=4816942

At no point did USC self report anything. They DID self impose sanctions but did not self report.

http://sports.espn.go.com/los-angeles/ncf/news/story?id=5234097

Here it states USC's position that no major violation occurred involving Reggie Bush and that their ultimate goal was to not be found having lack of institutional control due to major violations occurring within five years of each other and the current investigation into O.J. Mayo receiving improper benefits. Doesn't exactly sound like self-reporting to me

http://www.nwcn.com/sports/NCAA-Findings-and-Penalties-on-USC-Athletics-Program-96096329.html

Here is a list of the MULTIPLE violations involving MULTIPLE USC athletes, and the phone call you mentioned earlier from and athlete to parents must have been a long one as it totaled nearly $7,000

This is what we call citing sources and information to back up our argument

HAHAHA, you're going to cite these articles as your "evidence?" Apparently, you haven't learned anything about the media through your own tattoo-gate.

Try reading the NCAA report:

http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/d28c898042cdd2bc958fd5a6e282e000/20100610+USC+Public+Report.pdf?MOD=AJPERES&CACHEID=d28c898042cdd2bc958fd5a6e282e000

Or read USC's original response to the Notice of Allegations:

http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/usc/sports/m-footbl/auto_pdf/USCs2009ResponsetoNCAA.pdf

USC self-reported Allegations 4, 5, and 9. Look it up.

The phone calls were over the course of 2+ years and were from a Romanian tennis player making unauthorized calls to Europe. This was self-repored and just so you understand, this was the 3rd argument the NCAA used to hit SC with LOIC. USC considered this violation secondary, the NCAA clearly disagreed.

For the record, I don't like USC and now I feel dirty arguing on their behalf.

mellojello
07-26-2011, 11:02 PM
im thinking the NCAA is tired of getting the covers pulled over their eyes and now come down on anyone that has violations.

and thanks for the write up elaboration. USC was getting strawman'd up the wazzoo.I think times are just changing, especially with the media.

I honestly hate SC. I couldn't wait to sink my teeth into the NCAA report and get the dirt on how they really cheated all through the Carroll years. After reading it, I was not convinced though. SC took a legal/court approach to defending their case and exercised very poor diplomacy. Not to mention, Garrett is a prick.

Sloopy
07-27-2011, 08:09 AM
HAHAHA, you're going to cite these articles as your "evidence?" Apparently, you haven't learned anything about the media through your own tattoo-gate.

Try reading the NCAA report:

http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/d28c898042cdd2bc958fd5a6e282e000/20100610+USC+Public+Report.pdf?MOD=AJPERES&CACHEID=d28c898042cdd2bc958fd5a6e282e000

Or read USC's original response to the Notice of Allegations:

http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/usc/sports/m-footbl/auto_pdf/USCs2009ResponsetoNCAA.pdf

USC self-reported Allegations 4, 5, and 9. Look it up.

The phone calls were over the course of 2+ years and were from a Romanian tennis player making unauthorized calls to Europe. This was self-repored and just so you understand, this was the 3rd argument the NCAA used to hit SC with LOIC. USC considered this violation secondary, the NCAA clearly disagreed.

For the record, I don't like USC and now I feel dirty arguing on their behalf.

Yes, read your own article...

under the section "other allegations" they admit to the supposed secondary allegations while continuing to DENY any of the MAJOR allegations regarding student athletes 1 and 2. In fact they try to smear the names of the reporting parties in an attempt to discredit them as unreliable sources.

Meanwhile in the article you posted from the NCAA themselves it verifies that my cited article didn't make anything up and therefore are credible.

Pages 4-36 outline MULTIPLE VIOLATIONS regarding "student-athlete 1" and his family including the acceptance of cash and gifts such as cars, housing, furniture, washers and dryers, hotel stays, airfare etc. USC DENIED such MAJOR allegations.

Pages 38-45 outline MULTIPLE VIOLATIONS regarding "student-athlete 2" and his family including the acceptance of cash and gifts such as Wireless phone services, airfare, hotel stays, a television etc. USC DENIED these MAJOR allegations.

And of course the NCAA found the telephone calls by the tennis player to be a major violation, there were 123 long distance calls made that totaled $7,535. A bill which was fronted by the school.

Sloopy
07-27-2011, 08:33 AM
I'd rather not since it doesn't change anything, but since you asked Yay...

“USC didn’t self-report a thing, it was all uncovered by external investigaion” – 100% False

“USC got Lack of Institutional Control because the entire athletic department was corrupt.” - Ummm, I didn’t read that in the NCAA report, nothing in the report even suggested any sort of culture of corruption. Instead, one of the main premises of the NCAA report was that SC, with great power, had a “greater responsibility” than they demonstrated. This theme was repeated over and over in the report and effectively, this was the standard set in the report.

“As far as one player... the NCAA imposed sanctions against USC because of violations involving MULTIPLE players in MULTIPLE sports.” - The basketball violation was self-reported. If you want to include a female swimmer using the telephone to call her parents in Europe, then yes, it was multiple sports/violations. This was also self-reported, fyi.

“The NCAA was able to demonstrate that the AD knew about the issues at USC and did nothing to stop them and they let the environment that spawned them exist.” – Completely false. I didn’t read this in the NCAA report either, but please cite where you are getting this from. What did Mike Garrett or the president know about and not stop?

“That's why Pete Carroll took off in the middle of the night.” Wtf??? USC was under investigation for FOUR years and Pete Carroll was there the entire time!
“There were systemic problems that the AD did nothing to rectify and even worse off, tried to bury evidence of.” – Please cite where the NCAA accuses USC of burying evidence?

For those who have read the NCAA report, the only direct evidence that links the USC coaches/administration to the Bush scandal is a two minute cell phone bill by one of Bush’s supposed wannabe agents and the running back coach, Todd McNair. That is not overwhelming evidence in my mind.

Anyone who has ever spoken to a NCAA football player knows that at any given time, athletes are in violation of some rule. If a football players sells their textbooks at the end of the year, that's a violation, but everyone does it. Thinking that SC is the evil empire and your school has a halo over its head is just ignorant.

Now I'll go back to your "elaboration post" to answer a few questions for you:

Did USC self report? Yes, they self reported some minor violations while DENYING MAJOR VIOLATIONS and tried to pass of other major violations as secondary ones.

Did USC get slapped with LOIC because their AD was corrupt? Yes, under article 7 in your own article (7. LACK OF INSTITUTIONAL CONTROL. [NCAA Constitution 2.1.1, 2.1.2,
2.8.1 and 6.01.1] ) the NCAA clearly states that USC did not take proper steps to ensure that major violations were not occurring on their own campus and that "in this case, the institution failed to heed clear warning signs." Up to and including monitoring of a student-athlete using a phone IN THERE OWN OFFICE to make $7,535 worth of long distance calls. I guess in this case the corrupt part is in the opinion of the reader, I personally see that as corrupt as they clearly knew what was going on.

Were there MULTIPLE violations by athletes in MULTIPLE sports? Yes, and your claim that they self-reported the basketball violations is erroneous as they reported some secondary ones while failing to report any major violations and they self-reported the phone calls as a secondary violation while it was clearly major.

Was the NCAA was able to demonstrate that the AD knew about the issues at USC and did nothing to stop them and they let the environment that spawned them exist? Yes, they clearly imply that the AD knew about these issues and did nothing to stop them. Cited in the investigation article include: Particular instances of lack of institutional control were exhibited in deficiencies
in the following areas alleged by the enforcement staff: a) monitoring of student-
athlete 1's automobile registration; b) monitoring of student-athlete 1's
employment at the office of a sports marketing agent; c) involvement of boosters
and agents in the recruiting process; d) monitoring the number of countable
coaches in the football program; and e) monitoring long distance telephone calls
made from the department of athletics.
(page 46 1st paragraph)

I will not and have not claimed that USC tried to "bury evidence" merely that they clearly knew about the situation at hand and failed to report it or open their books to the NCAA. They did however try to smear the names of the parties reporting the violations to the NCAA in an attempt to discredit their reliability as a source.

As far as Pete Carroll... I wanna make this very clear: I DONT GIVE A FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK. My point was merely that USC clearly had MULTIPLE MAJOR violations in MULTIPLE sports and did not self report said MULTIPLE MAJOR violations in MULTIPLE sports. In no way are the infractions at THE Ohio State University comparable in any way to what went on at USC in neither quantity nor severity.

Now please stop this, I tire of it

mellojello
07-27-2011, 12:41 PM
They did however try to smear the names of the parties reporting the violations to the NCAA in an attempt to discredit their reliability as a source.

Now please stop this, I tire of itSVM, big props for acutally reading the source docs. I agree with your assessment that SC effectively went into a defensive position and tried to discredit the NCAA committee. To me, they effectively challenged the NCAA. BIG MISTAKE IMO and I will never defend someone claiming Garrett or the administration at the time acted like pricks. We can debate if making $7,000+ of phone calls, which was self-reported, was a major or minor violation until we are blue in the face, but I tend to agree with SC's position that it was not a major infraction. With all the allegations that were swriling around at the time and a four-year investigation, I expected a stronger case by the NCAA, especially given the severity of the punishment. A lot of the evidence that the committe used was weak imo (I'm thinking a recorded phone conversation would have been nice, not what one guys claims to the NCAA and a cell phone bill showing he was on the phone for 2 minutes...it may be possible that he left a 2 minute voice message) and the fact that so many other allegations were omitted tells me that the NCAA had nothing else on SC.

Anyways, Respect.

Sloopy
07-27-2011, 12:47 PM
SVM, big props for acutally reading the source docs. I agree with your assessment that SC effectively went into a defensive position and tried to discredit the NCAA committee. To me, they effectively challenged the NCAA. BIG MISTAKE IMO and I will never defend someone claiming Garrett or the administration at the time acted like pricks. We can debate if making $7,000+ of phone calls, which was self-reported, was a major or minor violation until we are blue in the face, but I tend to agree with SC's position that it was not a major infraction. With all the allegations that were swriling around at the time and a four-year investigation, I expected a stronger case by the NCAA, especially given the severity of the punishment. A lot of the evidence that the committe used was weak imo (I'm thinking a recorded phone conversation would have been nice, not what one guys claims to the NCAA and a cell phone bill showing he was on the phone for 2 minutes...it may be possible that he left a 2 minute voice message) and the fact that so many other allegations were omitted tells me that the NCAA had nothing else on SC.

Anyways, Respect.

Respect man

JoeJoeBrown
07-27-2011, 03:04 PM
Respect man

You guys are both of the ****....

I kid I kid :) There was actual knowledgeable debate on this thread, which is sadly to rare. Good info from both of you.