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View Full Version : Patrick Peterson = 9 Wonderlic


JoeJoeBrown
03-23-2011, 06:31 PM
AJ Green = 10

Rocket Surgeons, these two. (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/03/23/a-j-green-patrick-peterson-are-at-the-other-end-of-the-wonderlic-curve/)

I doubt if it effects their draft status, but it's not a positive thing when potential draftee is dumber than a box of rocks.

descendency
03-23-2011, 06:42 PM
Most people simply do not understand the combine.

It's a test to see if you meet expectations. Your stock falls when you don't and it rises when you exceed them.

If the NFL already thought AJ Green and Patrick Peterson were dumb, they'd probably not care. If they thought they were brain surgeons, they'd probably be passing on them in April.

This applies to every drill and test - even the wonderlic.

Don Vito
03-23-2011, 06:42 PM
You have to be really ******* stupid to score that low. Oh well, I'm sure they will both be studly NFL'ers. Go SEC!

Babylon
03-23-2011, 06:52 PM
I'll take them both and i couldnt care less if they cant spell cat even if they're given the c and the t.

jrdrylie
03-23-2011, 07:05 PM
There are 50 questions and I believe each one has four choices. So if you just Christmas Tree the thing, you would likely get a 12. When guys get scores in the 9-13 range, it makes me think that is what they did because I've taken sample Wonderlic tests and I'd say about 40% of the questions are things I learned in elementary school and for a college graduate (or at least a guy who spent three years in college) to not be able to get at least 15-20, it shows a great lack of intelligence.

Caulibflower
03-23-2011, 07:37 PM
Yeah, those really low scores worry me. Wideout probably requires the least intelligence of any offensive position, though. Body control, hands and speed are much more important as long as you have a good idea of what you're supposed to run. Not a whole lot of decision-making to be had. I'd be more worried at PP's score, because he's got to be able to read plays in the NFL, and that's the concern that everyone already had with him; he didn't have to read much in college, because his skillset was so good he could afford to simply react.

And a little off-topic and probably overtread, but I'm really leery of a QB scoring much less than 20.

PossibleCabbage
03-23-2011, 07:40 PM
There are 50 questions and I believe each one has four choices.

Only some questions on the Wonderlic are multiple choice. For most of them you actually have to write down an answer selecting from the big ol' solution space of "all the things you could possibly write."

Even ones that are multiple choice, you may have a ten or more choices.

FUNBUNCHER
03-23-2011, 09:46 PM
Honestly, I think most skill position players simply blow off the wonderlic.
I bet their agents have told them don't worry about doing well on the wonderlic because other than QB, maybe middle LBs, it has absolutely ZERO impact on your draft status.

Scores below 12 for someone who's been attending classes for three years no matter the curriculum at a D1 school means they just blew off the test.

Same deal with the BP.

BTW, if a QB can throw a football 75 yards, does anyone really care how much he can bench or what his standing broad jump is??

Some of these combine tests are relevant to the position a prospect plays, many aren't.

The only downside is that draftniks will call you stoopid.lol.

Scott Wright
03-23-2011, 10:04 PM
Darrelle Revis scored a 10. How's he doing? :o)

descendency
03-23-2011, 10:06 PM
Scores below 12 for someone who's been attending classes for three years no matter the curriculum at a D1 school means they just blew off the test.

"Family Life Services"

FUNBUNCHER
03-23-2011, 10:25 PM
"Family Life Services"


LOL!!

Funny and tragic at the same time.

Duffman57
03-23-2011, 10:32 PM
Yeah, those really low scores worry me. Wideout probably requires the least intelligence of any offensive position, though. Body control, hands and speed are much more important as long as you have a good idea of what you're supposed to run. Not a whole lot of decision-making to be had. I'd be more worried at PP's score, because he's got to be able to read plays in the NFL, and that's the concern that everyone already had with him; he didn't have to read much in college, because his skillset was so good he could afford to simply react.

And a little off-topic and probably overtread, but I'm really leery of a QB scoring much less than 20.

I mean is it really that hard to get above a 10. I mean Frank Gore was dyslexic and he got only 3 less points lower than PP. He really needs to get smarter...lol

SuperMcGee
03-23-2011, 10:49 PM
I'll take them both and i couldnt care less if they cant spell cat even if they're given the c and the t.

He spelled LSU with a 6.

wordofi
03-23-2011, 10:56 PM
AJ Green = 10

Rocket Surgeons, these two. (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/03/23/a-j-green-patrick-peterson-are-at-the-other-end-of-the-wonderlic-curve/)

I doubt if it effects their draft status, but it's not a positive thing when potential draftee is dumber than a box of rocks.

For the QB position, the Wonderlic is VERY important. I wouldn't draft a QB with a 9 on the Wonderlic.

For the other positions, not as much.

wordofi
03-23-2011, 11:05 PM
Darrelle Revis scored a 10. How's he doing? :o)

He's probably going to be another one of those broke athletes. He may be doing fine now, but wait until he's retired and broke.

FUNBUNCHER
03-23-2011, 11:11 PM
He's probably going to be another one of those broke athletes. He may be doing fine now, but wait until he's retired and broke.

You mean like Mark Brunell???

OJ Simpson turned his meager NFL earnings from the '70s into several million and I bet he would have struggled to crack double digits on the wonderlic too.

Some guys just have a high financial IQ and can turn a penny into a dollar without trying.

OzTitan
03-24-2011, 01:17 AM
He spelled LSU with a 6.

And he can count to potato.

phlysac
03-24-2011, 08:17 AM
Another interesting point-of-view regarding low Wonderlic scores...

As Scot McCloughan, then the team's vice president of player personnel, noted in 2005, teams don't want players to be too smart either, especially at certain positions. "Some positions, like cornerback, you don't want a really intelligent guy because if he does get beat, you don't want him overanalyzing it,"
http://blogs.sacbee.com/49ers/archives/2011/03/kolb-kaepernick.html

Bob Sanders Dreadlock
03-24-2011, 08:26 AM
Scores below 12 for someone who's been attending classes for three years no matter the curriculum at a D1 school means they just blew off the test.



Things get tougher when you don't have your tutor by your side explaining every question in great detail.

stephenson86
03-24-2011, 08:31 AM
Another interesting point-of-view regarding low Wonderlic scores...


http://blogs.sacbee.com/49ers/archives/2011/03/kolb-kaepernick.html

http://www.arlnow.com/wp-content/comment-image/37747.jpg

MaybeDavis
03-24-2011, 08:40 AM
I heard the average at wonderlic of all CB's are 11, so i dont worry about PP's test.

J-Mike88
03-24-2011, 09:01 AM
Doesn't make a difference for a cornerback.
But we've seen a lot of athletically-gifted great college WRs who totally flop in the NFL, and usually it's because they need to be/do more than just be fast.

A lot of these guys were too dumb/too lazy to figure out how to learn all the nuances of being a great route-runner in the NFL.

phlysac
03-24-2011, 10:07 AM
I heard the average at wonderlic of all CB's are 11, so i dont worry about PP's test.

Considering that Prince Amukamara got a 35 that average seems highly unlikely.

wordofi
03-24-2011, 10:19 AM
You mean like Mark Brunell???

OJ Simpson turned his meager NFL earnings from the '70s into several million and I bet he would have struggled to crack double digits on the wonderlic too.

Some guys just have a high financial IQ and can turn a penny into a dollar without trying.

OJ Simpson doesn't have a high financial IQ. He probably hired somebody to handle his money. Also, he has great lawyers who put all of his money in a trust.

D-Unit
03-24-2011, 02:11 PM
I'm thinking that this will make him available to the Cowboys at #9. Lol. I wish!

JoeJoeBrown
03-24-2011, 04:41 PM
Like I said when I posted it, I doubt that it effects their draft status. But it's mind boggling how stupid you would have to be to get a 9/10 on the Wonderlic.

A good football player almost always has to have a functioning brain. There are a few exceptions here and there, but for the most part, you have to be able to process a limited amount of information very quickly. I.e. they are showing this formation, this means I have to do this based on the play that was just called.

Not rocket science, but it's no cakewalk either.

Babylon
03-24-2011, 05:16 PM
Like I said when I posted it, I doubt that it effects their draft status. But it's mind boggling how stupid you would have to be to get a 9/10 on the Wonderlic.

A good football player almost always has to have a functioning brain. There are a few exceptions here and there, but for the most part, you have to be able to process a limited amount of information very quickly. I.e. they are showing this formation, this means I have to do this based on the play that was just called.

Not rocket science, but it's no cakewalk either.

Just as there is a differance between book smarts and street smarts i think you can be smart on the field and not be too bright. Larry Bird was no Rhodes scholar but his IQ on the court was better than everyone else.

saintsfan912
03-24-2011, 05:24 PM
And the Peterson haters start to come out. Didn't take long.

JoeJoeBrown
03-24-2011, 05:30 PM
And the Peterson haters start to come out. Didn't take long.

LOL, a wee bit over protective of a guy you don't know? Pointing out that he's dumber than a box of rocks is not "hating".

I would love if he fell to number 6 for the Browns. I think that he has a real chance at being a special player. I would be shocked if he fell that far.

I do agree with Babylon that there is a difference in smarts. I think IQ tests for the most part is a pointless measurement once you prove that someone is above a certain threshold.

Maybe they should devise a better test, one that quizzes football IQ.

SilentJaguar
03-24-2011, 05:52 PM
PP7 shouldn't feel too bad...

... at least he's not Carl Johnson. (http://www.everydayshouldbesaturday.com/2011/3/23/2068231/low-wonderlic-score-florida-gators)

Ghost of Juice
03-24-2011, 06:19 PM
Some players are really smart when it comes to football but are complete idiots when it comes to school and vise-versa. As long as PP is coachable and knows how to play his position I could care less if has this in front of his house

http://i537.photobucket.com/albums/ff340/Cordelmykoo/Funny%20Pics/0000004220_20060919220407.jpg

YAYareaRB
03-24-2011, 06:20 PM
Have any of you ever taken this test? I had to take it a few weeks ago (along with get measured and run the 40) but its really pointless and the result has no correlation to what goes on on the field. NO ONE has EVER finished it and they only give you 15 minutes to finish 40-50 somthin questions.

JoeJoeBrown
03-24-2011, 06:32 PM
Test Info (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wonderlic_Test)

Pat McInally, a graduate of Harvard University is the only football player to record a confirmed perfect score of 50.

According to Zimmerman, examples of average scores for each position are:

Offensive tackle – 26
Center – 25
Quarterback – 24 (Most teams want at least 21 for a quarterback.)[6]
Guard – 23
Tight end – 22
Safety – 19
Linebacker – 19
Cornerback – 18
Wide receiver – 17
Fullback – 17
Halfback – 16


For reference to other professions:
While an average football player usually scores around 20 points, Wonderlic, Inc. claims a score of at least 10 points suggests a person is literate.[2] Furthermore, when the test was given to miscellaneous people of various professions, it was observed that the average participant scored a 24. Examples of scores from everyday professions include:

Chemist – 31
Programmer – 29
Journalist – 26
Sales – 24
Bank teller – 22
Clerical worker – 21
Security guard – 17
Warehouse – 14


So basically, a 9 tells me that you are going to have some serious issues working in a warehouse. Or bagging groceries. But, it doesn't say that you have no business on the football field:

Similarly, a study[15] by Brian D. Lyons, Brian J. Hoffman, and John W. Michel found that Wonderlic test scores failed to positively and significantly predict future NFL performance for any position. The Lyons et al. (2009) study also found that the relationship between Wonderlic test scores and future NFL performance was negative for a few positions, indicating the higher a player scores on the Wonderlic test, the worse the player will perform in the NFL. Results from this study were recently highlighted in an Atlanta Journal-Constitution article by D. Orlando Ledbetter.

borg9
03-25-2011, 07:13 PM
Not too worried about PP but man, AJ Green reminds a lot of Charles Rogers. Tons of natural ability and athleticism but both never really worked at it in terms of preparation or hitting the weights.

RealityCheck
03-25-2011, 08:17 PM
These tests are too easy. If you get anything less than 20, there is something wrong with you.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
03-25-2011, 10:15 PM
Have any of you ever taken this test? I had to take it a few weeks ago (along with get measured and run the 40) but its really pointless and the result has no correlation to what goes on on the field. NO ONE has EVER finished it and they only give you 15 minutes to finish 40-50 somthin questions.

People have finished it, but I think the time constraints are all part of it. They just want to see how you can react to pressure like that and think on your feet. Anyone can see a few sample questions and be like, oh that's easy as hell, but it's different when you're facing 50 questions and can devote <20 seconds to each.

OhioJB
03-26-2011, 06:32 AM
My opinion of the Wonderlic is that it's useless. If the NFL wants to test players intelligence level they should just give a more standard type of test that the NFL could put together themselves to test math and english skills. And maybe in addition a questionnaire rather than a test that gives players real life scenarios and asks how they would handle each situation. Could be questions asking how they would handle drunk obnoxious opposing fans or friends they grew up with who are involved with selling drugs. Just to get an idea of how the players might react to everyday challenges in a pro athlete's life.

I once applied for a job at Mutual of Omaha and they gave a Wonderlic test (not the same one they give to NFL draft eligible players), and it was the most irrelevant test I've ever taken. It was more about psycho-analysis than testing intelligence levels. I actually found it a little insulting that they would give it to us in the first place, and then to not even tell us the results was doubly insulting. Humph...I have little good to say about the Wonderlic or Mutual of Omaha. So no, I didn't get the job, although it had nothing to do with the test. Just a case of a manager who wanted to hire a nice looking gal in a tight skirt than a slightly aging man. hah....

BandwagonPunditry
03-26-2011, 08:33 AM
He's probably going to be another one of those broke athletes. He may be doing fine now, but wait until he's retired and broke.

You don't need a Wonderlic score to be alright financially down the road, you just need the common sense to hire someone to deal with the money.

PickedOffTwice
03-26-2011, 01:54 PM
I think the Wonderlic score is completely irrelevant when it comes to examining how good of a football player someone is or will be.

What baffles me, though, is that these guys get trained something around 15 years to be exactly this kind of "book smart". They go through high school AND college. Every day. And still some guys apparently have a hard time to perform a simple addition or tell vegetables from animals...

thule
03-26-2011, 02:28 PM
The thing I find interesting about this all is how well PP speaks in front of the camera. We all have interaction with illiterate people on a daily basis....and PP comes off very well in front of the camera. This is what worries me. I think PP might have taken a page out of Jim Craigs book. If I'm a top 5 lock and someone puts a piece of paper in front of me and give me 20 second to answer 50 questions I might get 10 questions in and say this is stupid...now is this something that is smart...probably not...but Peterson handles himself well in front of the camera and while that doesn't directly correlate to intelligence I do think that it's possible he just said f' it.

Babylon
03-26-2011, 02:36 PM
The thing I find interesting about this all is how well PP speaks in front of the camera. We all have interaction with illiterate people on a daily basis....and PP comes off very well in front of the camera. This is what worries me. I think PP might have taken a page out of Jim Craigs book. If I'm a top 5 lock and someone puts a piece of paper in front of me and give me 20 second to answer 50 questions I might get 10 questions in and say this is stupid...now is this something that is smart...probably not...but Peterson handles himself well in front of the camera and while that doesn't directly correlate to intelligence I do think that it's possible he just said f' it.

Miracle on Ice Jim Craig?

thule
03-26-2011, 02:56 PM
Miracle on Ice Jim Craig?

Ya when he refuses to take the test....

romo4prez415
03-26-2011, 03:57 PM
The thing I find interesting about this all is how well PP speaks in front of the camera. We all have interaction with illiterate people on a daily basis....and PP comes off very well in front of the camera. This is what worries me. I think PP might have taken a page out of Jim Craigs book. If I'm a top 5 lock and someone puts a piece of paper in front of me and give me 20 second to answer 50 questions I might get 10 questions in and say this is stupid...now is this something that is smart...probably not...but Peterson handles himself well in front of the camera and while that doesn't directly correlate to intelligence I do think that it's possible he just said f' it.

I believe that is what he did because and that is why I wouldnt take him. Its that arrogance and complacency that translates into the lack of technique in his game. He speaks of himself in 3rd person. He was benched by his own father in high school for not studying enough tape. He reminds of a player that would fit in with the Cowboys. Athletic talent, sense of entitlement, and 2 cent brains. I pray this kid is not a Dallas Cowboy. The wonderlic wouldnt also be a big issue if he played instinctually but on tape he plays like a guy that lacks football smarts and is more of a roamer who doesnt play within the scheme.

FUNBUNCHER
03-26-2011, 09:53 PM
I believe that is what he did because and that is why I wouldnt take him. Its that arrogance and complacency that translates into the lack of technique in his game. He speaks of himself in 3rd person. He was benched by his own father in high school for not studying enough tape. He reminds of a player that would fit in with the Cowboys. Athletic talent, sense of entitlement, and 2 cent brains. I pray this kid is not a Dallas Cowboy. The wonderlic wouldnt also be a big issue if he played instinctually but on tape he plays like a guy that lacks football smarts and is more of a roamer who doesnt play within the scheme.

Better players than PP have blown off the wonderlic. Sorry, but it happens.
Oh, where do you get that PP has a 'sense of entitlement'??

His character IMO is why PP is considered by many to be the safest pick in this draft.
Peterson is a guy who's unlikely to get into trouble off the field, won't be a cancer in the lockerroom, won't trash his teammates and is willing to play whatever position on defense to help his football team.

Character-wise, he's Champ Bailey, a real solid citizen all around IMO.

What would be more informative for all you wonderlic devotees would be to find out how many of the questions that PP completed did he answer correctly??

rojones82
03-28-2011, 05:06 AM
No idea how people can fail so hard on these tests. Ive done a few tests (and time restricted my tests also) i got in the mid to low 30's, usualy 1 or 2 questions trip me up due to my lack of Math skills ;)

but to be down in sub 10 scores is just plain Criminal.

YAYareaRB
03-28-2011, 03:41 PM
People have finished it, but I think the time constraints are all part of it. They just want to see how you can react to pressure like that and think on your feet. Anyone can see a few sample questions and be like, oh that's easy as hell, but it's different when you're facing 50 questions and can devote <20 seconds to each.

It gets significantly harder as you progress thru it

nobodyinparticular
03-29-2011, 01:38 AM
Test Info (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wonderlic_Test)
Quote:
Pat McInally, a graduate of Harvard University is the only football player to record a confirmed perfect score of 50.
Quote:
According to Zimmerman, examples of average scores for each position are:

Offensive tackle 26
Center 25
Quarterback 24 (Most teams want at least 21 for a quarterback.)[6]
Guard 23
Tight end 22
Safety 19
Linebacker 19
Cornerback 18
Wide receiver 17
Fullback 17
Halfback 16
For reference to other professions:
Quote:
While an average football player usually scores around 20 points, Wonderlic, Inc. claims a score of at least 10 points suggests a person is literate.[2] Furthermore, when the test was given to miscellaneous people of various professions, it was observed that the average participant scored a 24. Examples of scores from everyday professions include:

Chemist 31
Programmer 29
Journalist 26
Sales 24
Bank teller 22
Clerical worker 21
Security guard 17
Warehouse 14
So basically, a 9 tells me that you are going to have some serious issues working in a warehouse. Or bagging groceries. But, it doesn't say that you have no business on the football field:

Quote:
Similarly, a study[15] by Brian D. Lyons, Brian J. Hoffman, and John W. Michel found that Wonderlic test scores failed to positively and significantly predict future NFL performance for any position. The Lyons et al. (2009) study also found that the relationship between Wonderlic test scores and future NFL performance was negative for a few positions, indicating the higher a player scores on the Wonderlic test, the worse the player will perform in the NFL. Results from this study were recently highlighted in an Atlanta Journal-Constitution article by D. Orlando Ledb

Well I scored a 38 with an ocular migraine (half blind with a headache).

1) That makes me feel like I'm in the wrong profession
2) I am dumbfounded by the inability of some people to correctly answer the question

"If one piece of rope is a 1 1/2 ft long and the canyon is 10 ft wide, how many pieces of rope is needed in order to span the canyon?"

a) 5
b) 6
c) 7
d) What's a canyon?

ellsy82
03-29-2011, 01:45 AM
I don't see the relevance of judging a receiver on the wonderlic. QB? Okay. A running back in a west coast offense? Maybe. A middle linebacker in a 3-4 defense? Understandable. A WR whose only job is to master his route book? I don't buy it.

nobodyinparticular
03-29-2011, 02:22 AM
I don't see the relevance of judging a receiver on the wonderlic. QB? Okay. A running back in a west coast offense? Maybe. A middle linebacker in a 3-4 defense? Understandable. A WR whose only job is to master his route book? I don't buy it.

Meh... I can see how it can be a concern even for the WR position, but any of those positions you mentioned can more than make up for it with athletic IQ. There's something to be said about the Wonderlic aiding measuring intellectual capacity--something that is necessary in order to learn any playbook from any position--however, there are plenty of players out there who are more than physically gifted, who have the gift of a high athletic IQ, who have a sub-par intellectual capacity. Some people can be as dumb as a brick when it comes to analogies, comparisons, simple mathematics and logic, but put them in sports situation and they are intellectual wizards. They can read the defense, instinctively react and even draw up plays to counter the opponent on the fly--all because of natural giftings. But heck if they know how many 1 1/2 ft ropes it takes to span a 10 ft canyon.

In the end, I agree that WR is among the lowest in terms of intellectual requirements.

I just think people have to be borderline impaired to get single digits on the Wonderlic. Seriously, no one who was able to make it through high school (i.e. anyone who would be in the NFL draft) should score in the single digits on this thing. Unless they made it through high school with lots of "help" (ding ding ding ding!).

ellsy82
03-29-2011, 02:45 AM
Exactly. You start taking the combine and pre-draft tests too seriously and you end up with a franchise like the Raiders. Its nuts. Nobody, out of curiousity out of the blue, who is your top WR in the draft? Green or Jones?

nobodyinparticular
03-29-2011, 12:26 PM
Just a random thought... I wonder what the average Wonderlic score is for coaches. I think that would be interesting to see as well.

nobodyinparticular
03-29-2011, 12:28 PM
Exactly. You start taking the combine and pre-draft tests too seriously and you end up with a franchise like the Raiders. Its nuts. Nobody, out of curiousity out of the blue, who is your top WR in the draft? Green or Jones?

I think I'm going to bite on the upside of Green. I feel he has the ability to be an absolutely special WR in this league. Julio Jones is incredibly talented as well though. We could see this draft produce 2 perennial Pro Bowlers IMO.

ellsy82
03-31-2011, 12:51 AM
I think I'm going to bite on the upside of Green. I feel he has the ability to be an absolutely special WR in this league. Julio Jones is incredibly talented as well though. We could see this draft produce 2 perennial Pro Bowlers IMO.

There's a wide gap between those two and the next WR. I wonder if that might push Smith or Baldwin into the mid twenties. Baltimore perhaps? If that's the case, Smith would be the guy. Then maybe Baldwin to the Bears or Patties.