PDA

View Full Version : Dalton and Ponder in 1st Round?


GatorsBullsFan
03-24-2011, 10:16 AM
Ponder and Dalton seem to be shooting up draft boards very quickly

During an appearance Wednesday on the "Brock and Salk Show" on 710 AM ESPN Radio, ESPN analyst and former NFL quarterback Trent Dilfer had a contrarian take on TCU product Andy Dalton. In Dilfer's view, he'll be taken in the first round of the draft, and would be a perfect fit for the Seattle Seahawks at No. 25 overall.

Are these guys following the Josh Freeman and Joe Flacco type draft prospects?

GaMeTiMe
03-24-2011, 10:22 AM
This happens every year - 40-50 guys are considered "first rounders" until the draft, and then everyones surprised when only 32 guys fit and that's when we start saying "who would've known ____ wasn't a first-rounder all along!"

Dalton and Ponder won't both go in the 1st, unless Jacksonville really likes one of them over the handful of pass-rushers that'd be looking them in the face and then Seattle takes the other. Other than that, I don't see how they both fit. Maybe Tennessee or San Francisco moves up to 28-32, but we may never have a read on that leading up to the draft.

The fact that Dilfer is pretty much guaranteeing this tells me he's heard something, but I think he's just going with the theory that QBs are valued more than any other position.

cunningham06
03-24-2011, 10:45 AM
If Dalton goes earlier than the 3rd round I will be shocked. I really doubt that either of them crack into the 1st round.

jrdrylie
03-24-2011, 10:49 AM
This all depends on whether or not the new CBA gets signed. For Dalton and/or Ponder to go in the first round, a team like Buffalo, Jacksonville, or Cincinnati would have to trade back into the first. That usually takes a future-first round pick (which can't be traded without a new CBA). The other option would be to trade a 2nd, 3rd, and maybe a late round pick. I can't see Jacksonville or Buffalo doing that. Maybe Cincinnati.

Wrathman
03-24-2011, 11:59 AM
I think it's a stretch for Ponder to go in the first, but it's not impossible. There's no way Dalton goes in the first.

Big Bird
03-24-2011, 04:13 PM
How are they similar to Flacco or Freeman at all? Freeman was a legit 1st Rounder the whole time and the only thing many were waiting on to grade Flacco as a 1st Rounder (such as I, and I did end up rating him as a 1st Rounder), was seeing him perform in all-star games, and he looked awesome in the Senior Bowl.

Both had elite physical tools with a good head on their shoulders whereas Ponder and Dalton are both average physically and Ponder has injury concerns.

SchizophrenicBatman
03-24-2011, 04:21 PM
These guys both fit the prototype of 2nd rounders. High profile in college but fell short of impressing enough to solidify the first. Late risers that sneak into the first (Flacco is an example) typically have higher physical projection

I suppose it is possible but I think it is more likely a team would take the risk on Mallett than reach for either of these two in round 1

Pat Sims 90
03-24-2011, 04:43 PM
When did people start listening to what Trent Dilfer has to say?

Babylon
03-24-2011, 05:11 PM
When did people start listening to what Trent Dilfer has to say?

Seriously. A lot of these guys that follow pro ball even admit they havent seen most of these guys play. Someone sticks a mic in their face and they usually come up with some recycled blather. I'd listen to 90% of the posters in here before i listened to most of these guys. The classic line was from Charley Casserly who said Gabbert was his #1 guy then in the next sentance admitted he really hadnt seen him play yet.

descendency
03-24-2011, 05:17 PM
Ponder and Locker are the two best QBs in this draft class. Dalton may be 3rd. I'd rather "overdraft" one of those 3 than draft Newton or Gabbert - if I could trade down. I wish I didn't worry about Ryan Mallett becoming Ryan Leaf 2.0. If Mallett didn't have major 'issues', he'd be #1.

I don't know what I'd do if I were #1 and needed a QB. I'd probably just shock everyone and take Ponder.

BuddyCHRIST
03-24-2011, 05:22 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if one of them is, but definitely not both. Freeman was always a later 1st rounder imo.

Babylon
03-24-2011, 05:27 PM
Ponder and Locker are the two best QBs in this draft class. Dalton may be 3rd. I'd rather "overdraft" one of those 3 than draft Newton or Gabbert - if I could trade down. I wish I didn't worry about Ryan Mallett becoming Ryan Leaf 2.0. If Mallett didn't have major 'issues', he'd be #1.

I don't know what I'd do if I were #1 and needed a QB. I'd probably just shock everyone and take Ponder.

Ponder has a lot of what you look for it's just that he isnt physically as gifted as the top 3. Would it shock me if he was to rise before the draft like Mark Sanchez, absolutely not, but with at least 3 guys ahead of him he wont go that high.

Scott Wright
03-24-2011, 05:27 PM
I know there is talk of Ponder sneaking into the back end of Round 1, but I'd be surprised.

No way on Dalton.

Babylon
03-24-2011, 05:30 PM
I know there is talk of Ponder sneaking into the back end of Round 1, but I'd be surprised.

No way on Dalton.

I think a lot has to do with teams ability to trade down from the top 10. Personally i'd rather get Locker and Ponder a little later than the two that appear to be going at the top of the draft.

RealityCheck
03-24-2011, 06:10 PM
The only QB not named Gabbert, Newton, Mallett or Locker that has a chance to sneak into the 1st is on my sig.

BamaFalcon59
03-24-2011, 06:15 PM
Ponder is JP Losman with a brain and a less impressive deep ball IYAM.

SchizophrenicBatman
03-24-2011, 07:31 PM
Ponder is JP Losman with a brain and a less impressive deep ball IYAM.

The former Bills QB I was going with for Ponder is Edwards

nikkayeah
03-24-2011, 08:10 PM
dalton will go as high as the 2nd round

Dam8610
03-24-2011, 08:16 PM
Ponder is JP Losman with a brain and a less impressive deep ball IYAM.

If brain = better decision making then that might be workable.

The former Bills QB I was going with for Ponder is Edwards

Again, Edwards pre-concussion is workable.

Heisman
03-24-2011, 08:18 PM
The former Bills QB I was going with for Ponder is Edwards

I've thought this before too. I feel like Ponder's potential fatal flaw is checking down to much, its just pretty rare to see a pass go past 10-15 years in the air.

If that won't be a problem though, he has all kinds of promise

dolphinfan2k5
03-24-2011, 09:24 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if the Dolphins took Ponder.

49erNation85
03-24-2011, 09:37 PM
I see Ponder going over Mallet MAYBE by Seattle.But really hard to say.Dalton sadly is a good second rounder to either of NFC west times.

49ersfan_87
03-24-2011, 10:34 PM
The only QB not named Gabbert, Newton, Mallett or Locker that has a chance to sneak into the 1st is on my sig.

I think so too. Besides the big 4, i think Kaepernick could sneak into the late 1st round. Great arm, good work ethic, leadership qualities, and impressed during the Senior Bowl practices. I wouldn't mind SF trading up to take him late 1st round.

Big Bird
03-25-2011, 10:14 AM
Ponder is JP Losman with a brain and a less impressive deep ball IYAM.
So, a guy from a non-BCS conference coming out of a spread offense with ridiculous physical tools and very raw with poor decision-making compares to a guy who comes from the ACC, a pro-style offense, and gets by on smart decisions and accuracy to overcome average physical tools?

That's like comparing an elephant to a cat...

nepg
03-25-2011, 10:38 AM
I thought we were done with this Dalton crap.

Halsey
03-25-2011, 10:47 AM
I wouldn't be surprised to see an unexpected QB drafted in the first. Teams that need QBs don't have a lot of options right now. They may just choose to get the best QB they can get, while they can get him, and worry about other needs with the rest of their Draft picks. Teams like Minnesota and Tennessee are badly in need of an upgrade in talent at QB. Even if it means 'reaching'.

BamaFalcon59
03-25-2011, 06:02 PM
So, a guy from a non-BCS conference coming out of a spread offense with ridiculous physical tools and very raw with poor decision-making compares to a guy who comes from the ACC, a pro-style offense, and gets by on smart decisions and accuracy to overcome average physical tools?

That's like comparing an elephant to a cat...

Losman had ridiculous physical tools? That's news to me. He had a strong arm, but his HWS ratio was fairly similar to Ponder's.

Also, Ponder does not make great decisions. Like I said, he's a more intelligent QB than Losman. But Ponder still makes a ton of dumb decisions at the ends of games.

WCH
03-25-2011, 07:42 PM
I'm expecting the opposite. If there are five or six guys with equal grades plus one exceptional talent who snorts enough coke to kill and elephant, then all of those guys are going to drop in the draft. It's because teams will think "Hell, I can wait a round and get Ponder."

Iamcanadian
03-25-2011, 08:17 PM
I know there is talk of Ponder sneaking into the back end of Round 1, but I'd be surprised.

No way on Dalton.

I have to agree, it would take a really desperate team to draft Ponder in round 1. Possibly some team trades up back into round 1 to get him.
Totally agree on Dalton, he'll never see round 1.

Bobertchin
03-26-2011, 02:22 PM
I don't see Dalton getting there, but I do think he could go in the second. The QBs are hard to predict this year. There are a few that seem like they'll likely go in the first, and rather high. Gabbert and Newton could be top 10 picks (especially Gabbert). After that, things get murky. Locker and Mallett MIGHT be in the first round. I actually think Ponder is the second best QB in this draft, right after Gabbert. So I would not at all be surprised if he goes in the first round. But he has that injury question. If he were healthy, I think he'd be a top 10 pick. As is, he'll fall. But as a Titans fan, I'd be fine with the Titans trading down into the teens and grabbing Ponder. In the right system, with some talent around him, I think Ponder is a nice, safe pick, assuming he checks out physically. If a team drafts him in the first, they'll do so because their doctors have given a thumbs up on the kid.

bitonti
03-29-2011, 11:33 AM
ponder makes it to rd1, dalton probably a high 2nd.

MI_Buckeye
03-29-2011, 12:37 PM
In my latest mock, I had Ponder going 25th to Seattle and Dalton going to San Fran with the 45th pick.

SolidGold
03-29-2011, 01:24 PM
I am working on a 7 round mock..I have Ponder going to the Cardinals in the Second and Dalton to the Jags in the second.

I do think this year the stigma of second round QBs will be ignored.

Big Bird
03-31-2011, 02:23 PM
Losman had ridiculous physical tools? That's news to me. He had a strong arm, but his HWS ratio was fairly similar to Ponder's.

Also, Ponder does not make great decisions. Like I said, he's a more intelligent QB than Losman. But Ponder still makes a ton of dumb decisions at the ends of games.
Losman had a cannon for an arm and above average athletic ability. Losman's Height and Weight were average, but his arm and athletic ability put his overall physical tools at 'very good' compared to the 'average' that Ponder has.

And what games has Ponder made bad decisions at the end of games? Because he's been pretty good in my opinion, and his numbers in 4th Quarter's and on 3rd Downs are good.

FlyingElvis
03-31-2011, 02:51 PM
The run of QB needy teams at the top of round 2 (Buff / Cincy / Arizona / Tenn) plus Washington & SF not far off will likely push 2 additional QBs into round one.

I'd say it's a safe bet that Newton / Gabbert / Locker / Mallett go round one.

Then some team will feel they need to move ahead of the 34/35/38 pick. If Buffalo doesn't take a QB @ 3 then teams have to get above 34 and likely push Ponder into round one. Otherwise, 33 / 34 become the target of those teams moving up to grab the remaining QB(s) but they still go rd2.

oldman9er
03-31-2011, 07:16 PM
I would be underwhelmed if SF moved back into the 1st for either Ponder or Dalton... but at the end of the day, I wouldn't gripe about it.

Gotta trust in Jim Harbaugh, as I have no doubt that he would make a wise decision after thorough evaluations.

Now in the 2nd round, I'd be extremely happy with either QB.