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RaiderNation
04-28-2011, 11:49 PM
Post your favorite 5 picks, and the 5 picks you have questions about in this years 1st round.

Winners:

1 13 Detroit Lions- Nick Fairley DT Auburn- Wow what great value for the Lions here at 13. Suh next to Fairley will be the one of the best DT's combo's we will ever see IMO. This defense will really improve having 2 Pro Bowl caliber guys in the middle, and will make everyone look better.

2 10 Jacksonville Jaguars- Blaine Gabbert QB Missouri- I am not a fan of Gabbert, but this might be the best situation for Gabbert to be able to succeed in the NFL. He will be able to learn for atleast 1 season, and the Jaguars have some nice talent on offence for Gabbert to work with.

3 5 Arizona Cardinals- Patrick Peterson CB LSU- I predicted this pick right, and I really feel Peterson will be a star in Arizona. He and Rogers-Cromartie will be a really good duo at CB, and I can see Peterson being a top 3 punter returner in the NFL as well.

4 22 Indianapolis Colts- Anthony Castonzo OT Boston College- Might be the ideal spot for Castonzo, and he should be Peyton's blindside protection for the rest of his career. Castonzo should start right away.

5 24&28 New Orleans Saints- Cameron Jordan DL Cal & Mark Ingram RB Alabama- These 2 are among of my favorite prospects for this years draft, and they should be big impact guys from the start for the Saints. Ingram is already my early candidate for rookie of the year, and Jordan is a great fit and value.

Losers:

1 2 Denver Broncos- Von Miller OLB Texas A&M- Dont get be wrong here, Miller should turn out to be a really good player, but the Broncos really need help on the dline. The biggest problem for the defense was the run D, and I dont see Miller as a big help against it. Also dont like his fit in a 4-3 and Dareus would have been a much more logical pick here.

2 7 San Francisco 49ers- Aldon Smith DE/OLB Missouri- This is a reach for Smith, who is a more potential based prospect coming out. I can see him turning out to be a real good pass rusher, but I can also see a Vernon Gholston type player as well. We will see though.

3 12 Minnesota Vikings- Christian Ponder QB Florida State- I really like the fit, but this is way too early for Ponder. He likely could have been there in the 20's IMO, but maybe the Vikings got some inside info like the Redskins might have wanted him at 16.

4 25 Seattle Seahawks- James Carpenter OG Alabama- Another reach, that likely would have been on the board in the 2nd round for them. I do see Carpenter as a starter in the NFL, but he isnt worth a 1st round pick and I would have liked to see them go in another direction here.

5 26 Kansas City Chiefs- Jonathan Baldwin WR Pittsburgh- Yet another reach in the 1st round. I dont see WR as the Chiefs biggest need, and Baldwin would be on the board in the 2nd for the Chiefs. If Baldwin does pan out though I could be wrong about this pick though, because he and Bowe could be deadly.

Iamcanadian
04-29-2011, 12:05 AM
I'll just add one real loser, Cleveland!
Trading back for value is one thing but trading back for the 27th pick is ridiculous, and next year's picks will likely fall in the 29-32 range, just absurd.
That late in each round and you are in reality talking about a round lower in talent. The 27th and 29-32 round 1 picks are basically round 2 talents.
Whatever happened in Cleveland to the idea that you use high draft picks to find real impact players to act as the cornerstones around which a team can be rebuilt, what good is a bunch of average starters when you have no impact players.
This draft basically dooms Cleveland to years of continuing mediocrity.

Giants34
04-29-2011, 12:09 AM
The Good-
1. Anthony Castonzo to Colts- great value at a position of need

2. Cameron Jordan to Saints- versatile, and great value

3. Patrick Peterson to Cardinals- Slam Dunk.

4. Aldon Smith to 49ers- have needed a pass rusher for years...this could be the guy

5. AJ Green to Bengals- just a good pick. #1 overall worthy, like Peterson

The Bad

1. Tyron Smith to Dallas- classic workout wonder pick..played the right side in college, is small and doesn't have an offensive linemans body, and couldn't be at out Charles Brown last year at USC...Brown, the 3rd round pick whose a backup in N.O. and he goes 9 overall? As a Giants fan, hallelujah. I was worried the Giants would be tempted by him...

2. The Julio Jones Trade- My God, Julio Jones better be a Hall Of Famer. That is all.

3. Ryan Kerrigan To Washington- hmmm. Ignore a QB for Ryan Kerrigan? I'm not sure he's explosive enough to play LB there..I'm afraid he fell into a bad spot.

4. Jon Baldwin to Chiefs- a lazy, lumbering WR in the 1st round. Awful pick. Can't believe Pioli made that pick

5. Mark Ingram to Saints- this is just based on the compensation. I do not believe Ingram is worth 2 1st round picks.

The Ugly
1. (And only) Cam Newton to Panthers- every other team picking in the round got a safer pick. A more experienced football player more capable to contribute and validate the pick. If you're gonna treat the #1 pick like this, just give it away and let Denver pick first.

keylime_5
04-29-2011, 12:10 AM
the browns are losers for trading the 6th pick for the 27th pick, a 2nd round pick, two fourth round picks, and a future 1st round pick? on a rebuilding young team i call turning a 6th into that WINNING. they turned one starter into possibly 5 starters. This is the same method that Belichick has built a dynasty in New England via the draft.

GaMeTiMe
04-29-2011, 12:11 AM
New England gets a 1st rounder in 2012 and probable future franchise LT with their player development. I think they win.

I don't like the Ingram trade for NO either. They probably just wanted him with their original pick but didn't expect Jordan to be there. I wonder if that trade was put together on the fly or already set up as a back up plan if they had a better player than Ingram fall to them.

Also seemed like a lot of trades really were supposed to go down but just didn't. We know about the clock running out on Baltimore in negotiations with Chicago, who probably realized they didn't need to move up to get Carimi and backed out at the last second. And then Minnesota was definitely looking to trade down, probably to pick Ponder a little later on, and once that fell through they just stuck to their guns and snatched him up. Detroit tried moving back with the next pick, probably using Castonzo as bait, but had the ultimate back-up plan once they had to stay put in Fairley.

keylime_5
04-29-2011, 12:11 AM
new england always wins at the draft. it's not fair.

Diehard
04-29-2011, 12:13 AM
1 2 Denver Broncos- Von Miller OLB Texas A&M- Dont get be wrong here, Miller should turn out to be a really good player, but the Broncos really need help on the dline. The biggest problem for the defense was the run D, and I dont see Miller as a big help against it. Also dont like his fit in a 4-3 and Dareus would have been a much more logical pick here.


The pick alone indicates that Denver might not be running a vanilla 4-3 this season. Fox may be the HC, but Dennis Allen is the DC and he comes from a very diverse schematic background.

My hunch is that the team didn't see Dareus as an impact guy who was head-and-shoulders above the DT's who might be available in round 2, so they took the guy they felt could become a real playmaker on defense.

DBNYDP
04-29-2011, 12:16 AM
I wanted Dareus but to be honest I feel like Miller isn't going to be used as a typical 4-3 backer. He'll probably be used as a pass rusher all over the field, which really could make him a huge impact player. Broncos pass rush should be pretty scary last year, if they can solidify the interior which I think they can with two second round DTs, they'll have helped that terrible rush defense and have one of the better pass rushes in the league.


AND HOLY ...
The Lions are one scary team. Fairley and SUH?

Iamcanadian
04-29-2011, 12:16 AM
the browns are losers for trading the 6th pick for the 27th pick, a 2nd round pick, two fourth round picks, and a future 1st round pick? on a rebuilding young team i call turning a 6th into that WINNING. they turned one starter into possibly 5 starters.

Looks OK on paper till you realize that by the 27 pick, you are in reality looking at round 2 talent and it will get even worse next year when Atlanta uses Jones to finish in the 29-32 range.
So in reality, we got 2 second round talents, a 3rd round talent and 2 fifth round talents.
Where are you going to find impact players which every contender has that late in the draft. Likely we are looking at 3 rather average starters and not much more.
Ugh and more Ugh.

Monomach
04-29-2011, 12:17 AM
I'll just add one real loser, Cleveland!
Trading back for value is one thing but trading back for the 27th pick is ridiculous, and next year's picks will likely fall in the 29-32 range, just absurd.
That late in each round and you are in reality talking about a round lower in talent. The 27th and 29-32 round 1 picks are basically round 2 talents.
Whatever happened in Cleveland to the idea that you use high draft picks to find real impact players to act as the cornerstones around which a team can be rebuilt, what good is a bunch of average starters when you have no impact players.
This draft basically dooms Cleveland to years of continuing mediocrity.
What the Browns did to Atlanta was like the super long, way too drawn out anal rape scene in Irreversible. I'd classify the Browns as strong winners.

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/2048423/monica_bellucci_in_irreversible_rape_scene/

MI_Buckeye
04-29-2011, 12:18 AM
Post your favorite 5 picks, and the 5 picks you have questions about in this years 1st round.

Winners:

1 13 Detroit Lions- Nick Fairley DT Auburn- Wow what great value for the Lions here at 13. Suh next to Fairley will be the one of the best DT's combo's we will ever see IMO. This defense will really improve having 2 Pro Bowl caliber guys in the middle, and will make everyone look better.

2 10 Jacksonville Jaguars- Blaine Gabbert QB Missouri- I am not a fan of Gabbert, but this might be the best situation for Gabbert to be able to succeed in the NFL. He will be able to learn for atleast 1 season, and the Jaguars have some nice talent on offence for Gabbert to work with.

3 5 Arizona Cardinals- Patrick Peterson CB LSU- I predicted this pick right, and I really feel Peterson will be a star in Arizona. He and Rogers-Cromartie will be a really good duo at CB, and I can see Peterson being a top 3 punter returner in the NFL as well.

4 22 Indianapolis Colts- Anthony Castonzo OT Boston College- Might be the ideal spot for Castonzo, and he should be Peyton's blindside protection for the rest of his career. Castonzo should start right away.

5 24&28 New Orleans Saints- Cameron Jordan DL Cal & Mark Ingram RB Alabama- These 2 are among of my favorite prospects for this years draft, and they should be big impact guys from the start for the Saints. Ingram is already my early candidate for rookie of the year, and Jordan is a great fit and value.

Losers:

1 2 Denver Broncos- Von Miller OLB Texas A&M- Dont get be wrong here, Miller should turn out to be a really good player, but the Broncos really need help on the dline. The biggest problem for the defense was the run D, and I dont see Miller as a big help against it. Also dont like his fit in a 4-3 and Dareus would have been a much more logical pick here.

2 7 San Francisco 49ers- Aldon Smith DE/OLB Missouri- This is a reach for Smith, who is a more potential based prospect coming out. I can see him turning out to be a real good pass rusher, but I can also see a Vernon Gholston type player as well. We will see though.

3 12 Minnesota Vikings- Christian Ponder QB Florida State- I really like the fit, but this is way too early for Ponder. He likely could have been there in the 20's IMO, but maybe the Vikings got some inside info like the Redskins might have wanted him at 16.

4 25 Seattle Seahawks- James Carpenter OG Alabama- Another reach, that likely would have been on the board in the 2nd round for them. I do see Carpenter as a starter in the NFL, but he isnt worth a 1st round pick and I would have liked to see them go in another direction here.

5 26 Kansas City Chiefs- Jonathan Baldwin WR Pittsburgh- Yet another reach in the 1st round. I dont see WR as the Chiefs biggest need, and Baldwin would be on the board in the 2nd for the Chiefs. If Baldwin does pan out though I could be wrong about this pick though, because he and Bowe could be deadly.

I like all your analysis, but I dont agree with all of it. I really like Baldwin and think he will prove everyone wrong; strong, ballsy pick by Pioli. I also like Aldon Smith and Christian Ponder a whole lot. Ponder was by far my favorite of the second-tier QBs. I thought Washington blew it by not coming out with a QB, and if they really wanted Ponder, they should have taken him at 10. Should go to show that you dont mess around when it comes to franchise QBs.

Halsey
04-29-2011, 12:21 AM
Julio Jones better be good.

Diehard
04-29-2011, 12:24 AM
Julio Jones better be good.

The thing that bothers me a bit about that pick is that receivers often take time to transition successfully to the NFL. It's not like RB's who are much easier to "plug and play" (at least from a pure running perspective... blocking and receiving is often a different story).

Clearly this would've been part of the evaluation process, but projecting these things is more art than science and the "win now" mindset doesn't give the team or player a whole lot of breathing room.

Giants34
04-29-2011, 12:26 AM
Buckeye...the plays you see Baldwin make on tv are interceptions in the NFL. Defenses can game-plan for slow, lumbering "downfield" receivers. His motor needs to run 1,000 mph to have a shot at validating a 1st round pick. My sense has always been he was lucky to be in the Big East, where elite corners are non-existent. Hell elite defenders in general are non-existent. If this played on USC, his name is David Ausberry.

wicket
04-29-2011, 12:27 AM
you can put the saints both with the winners and the losers

RaiderNation
04-29-2011, 12:28 AM
The pick alone indicates that Denver might not be running a vanilla 4-3 this season. Fox may be the HC, but Dennis Allen is the DC and he comes from a very diverse schematic background.

My hunch is that the team didn't see Dareus as an impact guy who was head-and-shoulders above the DT's who might be available in round 2, so they took the guy they felt could become a real playmaker on defense.

Well that does make the pick make more sense then if that ends up happening. I just dont see Miller be effective in coverage, and should be a Lawrence Taylor type OLB and strictly rush the passer.

the natural
04-29-2011, 12:28 AM
Best thing for Gabbert is that he was drafted where he was rated on the big boards, unlike the other quarterbacks taken, who were huge reaches. Combine that with the fact that he comes in behind an established starter in Jacksonville, unlike the others, and he is set up to succeed, rather than fail.
He lost the battle but it may help him win the war.

onejayhawk
04-29-2011, 12:34 AM
Biggest winner, by far, is Cleveland. Phil Taylor is a fantastic pick for them, plus a second for a third and 2 picks in next year's better class.

J

GaMeTiMe
04-29-2011, 12:36 AM
Biggest winner, by far, is Cleveland. Phil Taylor is a fantastic pick for them, plus a second for a third and 2 picks in next year's better class.

J

Love the Jones trade, but why Taylor with Rubin? I think they still need to add a UT early in this draft.

onejayhawk
04-29-2011, 12:36 AM
Well that does make the pick make more sense then if that ends up happening. I just dont see Miller be effective in coverage, and should be a Lawrence Taylor type OLB and strictly rush the passer.

More Derrick Thomas, but that is the idea. You may thing LTonly rushed the passer, but he spent time in coverge, and was a thumper in the running game. Miller will be a decent run and coverage LB, with that extra dimension no one else brings.

J

Basileus777
04-29-2011, 12:38 AM
I'd actually call Atlanta the biggest loser. Julio Jones' value to that franchise isn't worth the king's ransom they gave up to get him.

BigBanger
04-29-2011, 12:42 AM
I agree with the top 3 losers.


I don't understand Denver taking Miller. If they don't use him correctly (and that's primarily as a pass rusher) then he's going to disappoint. A 43 OLB? That's not worth the #2 pick. Just like "Average" Aaron Curry wasn't worth the #4 pick. Just like Rey Maluaga wasn't a top 10 player. A standard 43 OLB? I hope they don't intent to play him 5 yards off the ball. Unless they use him in exotic pass rushing packages, then this will turn out to be a mistake. Denver had a dying need for a DT and interior run stuffer. That was Dareus. Right there in front of them and they passed that up to take a pass rusher that will be playing out of position?

Does San Francisco have any idea what they want to do on defense? Really? Its been years where they're just not evaluating personnel properly. They draft a DE that plays his best over a guard... to play OLB in a 34? Again... personnel... do you not know it? I thought they should have moved down in the draft. Take an easy deal and grab a DE like Cameron Jordan or JJ Watt. Then move up and draft a Brooks Reed at the end of round 1. You got 10 draft picks. Go out and do something. Instead they sit around and draft guys that don't fit their scheme.


Minnesota Vikings... are you ******* kidding me? This will go down as one of the biggest reaches I've ever seen. The biggest reach I ever saw was Troy Williamson... when they lost Randy Moss and HAD TO REPLACE HIM... WITH TROY ******* WILLIAMSON!!!!!!! Here? They just panic and **** a brick again. Instead of drafting a top 10 talent, which is what you should get with the 12th overall pick, you draft a second or third round QB that is scheme dependent with limited upside. This is almost as bad as Tyson Jackson.

I commend Seattle for what they did. They exhausted the clock and tried to work a trade. Couldn't get any offers and stayed true to their board. Carpenter played really well against some good DEs during the Senior Bowl. They took a second round value at the end of round 1. If they're confident in Carpenter, then it's a good pick. If they reached based on need, then it could be a mistake. It's like Tyson Alualu. The Jags had him high on their board and stayed true to it. Was a reach? Yes by most accounts, but is anyone gonna care if turns out to be a real good player for them? Same thing with Carpenter.

Baldwin could be successful in KC. That could be a really interesting pick that actually pans out quite well. KC has been one of the best drafting teams over the last few years (minus Tyson Jackson).


Cleveland was in prime position to really knock the first round out of the park, then they drafted an underachieving DT with work ethic issues. Taylor had a similar rise to Tye Hill. Never really stood out on Saturdays, then played well during the Senior Bowl and all of a sudden he's a first round pick even though he didn't do anything to ever warrant a first round pick on Saturday's. I think Taylor will be a bust.


I hate Nate Solder. New England drafted a project in round 1 and then did nothing with their other first round pick.


The Baltimore Ravens though... Jimmy Smith is the best pure CB in this draft. You put that immature idiot in that locker room? If he fails it's because of a terrible entourage and terrible off the field decisions. It would prove that he would fail anywhere. Maybe I just put a lot of stock into Ray Lewis's ability to motivate, inspire and lead a young kid like this, but I think Smith will develop into a Pro Bowl CB with All-Pro potential.

REDSKINSWARRIOR82
04-29-2011, 12:42 AM
Redskins will pick a Qb in round 2, i love their first round pick. He will go great with brian Orakpo.

we need Qb and Wideout, hopping for the Qb from nevada Colin Kaepernick, *
6'5"
*
Weight:
233 lbs.
*
Arm Length:
33 1/2 in.
*
Hand Size:
9 1/8 in.
*
College:
Nevada
*
Conference:
WAC

Featured Prospects
Combine Stats

*
40 Yard Dash 4.53 Time
, and Torrey Smith from Maryland as the picks.

Torrey Smith (WR)

*
Height:
6'1"
*
Weight:
204 lbs.
*
Arm Length:
32 5/8 in.
*
Hand Size:
8 5/8 in.
*
College:
Maryland
*
Conference:
ACC

Featured Prospects
Combine Stats

*
40 Yard Dash4.43 Time

*
Bench Press

Giants34
04-29-2011, 12:44 AM
I'd actually call Atlanta the biggest loser. Julio Jones' value to that franchise isn't worth the king's ransom they gave up to give him.

I realize that was a huge jump up, but that is a franchise QB compensation package. Certainly not a #2 WR package. Dimitroff summomed his inner Millen. Wtf was he thinking and why didn't anyone in the room try to stop it?

Halsey
04-29-2011, 12:58 AM
"The Falcons gave up too much! The Falcons got a #2 WR! Blah blah blah!"

If Jones plays up to his potential, Falcon's fans won't be complaining in the long run. Obviously a big if. We'll see.

Iamcanadian
04-29-2011, 01:03 AM
What the Browns did to Atlanta was like the super long, way too drawn out anal rape scene in Irreversible. I'd classify the Browns as strong winners.

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/2048423/monica_bellucci_in_irreversible_rape_scene/

If you call never making the playoffs for the next decade a strong win, then that is what Cleveland accomplished.

wogitalia
04-29-2011, 01:08 AM
Looks OK on paper till you realize that by the 27 pick, you are in reality looking at round 2 talent and it will get even worse next year when Atlanta uses Jones to finish in the 29-32 range.

I don't get this theory. The NFL is not the NBA and based on the past 5 years teams have done just as well in the 24-32 range as teams picking in the 1-10 range have. Sure there are some elite talents that you are missing out on, but unless there is a rookie salary scale then you not only get a good chance to add elite talent still in the end of the 1st but you get to do it at a significant discount, even more so this round if they wanted a NT regardless.

Winners

1. Cleveland Browns - Got a guy who was a massive need for them and got several more picks, which is vital because they have a lot of holes to fill over the next two years, realistically they should be pretty ordinary again next year and have their own pick.

2. New Orleans Saints - Two of the best prospects who should both contribute immediately and help keep them in the Superbowl hunt. I think they did a great job of moving up with good value and really got BPA and needs based picks in both.

3. Chicago Bears - Got the best OT in the draft, imo, without having to move up. Massive need and massive talent, great move.

4. Green Bay Packers - See Bears, only they got the 3rd best OT, imo.

5. Indianopolis Colts - See Bears, only they got the 2nd best tackle, imo.

The last 3 all just locked down their LT for the next decade imo with stud talents.

Losers

1. Minnesota Vikings - How can they not be, I think Ponder is the 2nd best QB in this draft but I don't support drafting a 2nd rounder in the first half of the first. Big reach, would have been far better off drafting Carimi(or one of the other OT) and then getting Ponder in the 2nd or moving up to get him. Not much point having a glass QB behind a horrendous OL. Not to mention that the Prince was there and we have no CBs who should be starting at CB.

2. New England Patriots - Hey I love that they keep trading down and all but eventually you need to add talent and this would have been a great chance to do just that. Hate the Solder pick because I don't rate him at all as a prospect, think they took the worst OT of any taken in the first and did it at the expense of other needs as well. A really odd draft, they took neither BPA or needs based picks and even if you felt it was a need they didn't go BPA at that need. Odd moves...

3. Atlanta Falcons - I like what they did, but god they overpaid. Unless they knew that Jones was gone at 6 I'm not sold on moving that high in the first place but they paid a kings ransom to get that pick. Jones basically needs to be Andre Johnson for them now. Probably doesn't help that I don't think they are as close as a trade like this would indicate.

4. Seattle Seahawks - They reached. I like Carpenter and think he is a good solid player, but he also would have gone close to being there at their second pick.

5. Denver Broncos - Have they become the new Lions? They just drafted a 3-4 OLB to play in a 4-3, basically they need his biggest weaknesses and will hide his strengths. This pick just made no sense to me. Value was horrible here. I'm not sold on Miller regardless but you'd need to tell me I'm getting Derrick Brooks if I'm taking a 4-3 OLB at pick 2 when I have needs at just about every position.

Giants34
04-29-2011, 01:08 AM
"The Falcons gave up too much! The Falcons got a #2 WR! Blah blah blah!"

If Jones plays up to his potential, Falcon's fans won't be complaining in the long run. Obviously a big if. We'll see.

This post was quite the oxymoron...

Giants34
04-29-2011, 01:11 AM
If you call never making the playoffs for the next decade a strong win, then that is what Cleveland accomplished.

??? They got a Kings Ranson for their pick, and took a pretty good NT prospect. They aren't a playoff team with any player in the top 10...you can't argue they didn't get better, while gang-banging the Falcons.

djp
04-29-2011, 01:17 AM
I like the people that are certain Ponder would be available in the 2nd round.. I really don't think so. If the Vikings found a good trade partner for 18-24, I think it made a lot of sense to move down and get him then, but they stated no one offered them a thing for the 12th pick after the way the draft unfolded. I'm not saying Ponder is great, and I don't like him at 12 either, but let's not act like it was a certainty Ponder was going in round 2.

wogitalia
04-29-2011, 01:21 AM
I like the people that are certain Ponder would be available in the 2nd round.. I really don't think so. If the Vikings found a good trade partner for 18-24, I think it made a lot of sense to move down and get him then, but they stated no one offered them a thing for the 12th pick after the way the draft unfolded. I'm not saying Ponder is great, and I don't like him at 12 either, but let's not act like it was a certainty Ponder was going in round 2.

Then take a better player at pick 12 and move up to get him. I don't like overdrafting for a guy who is not very likely to be a genuine franchise QB. Still doesn't change drafting a glass QB to put behind one of the worst OL in the league either.

djp
04-29-2011, 01:24 AM
Then take a better player at pick 12 and move up to get him. I don't like overdrafting for a guy who is not very likely to be a genuine franchise QB. Still doesn't change drafting a glass QB to put behind one of the worst OL in the league either.

Move up w/ what ammunition? Minnesota's 2nd plus what else in 2012? This is an old football team that needs to get younger as cheaply as they can. The Moss deal handcuffed the Vikings ability to move up.

Giants34
04-29-2011, 01:24 AM
Hey, I'm one of the few that defends that pick. Its a lot safer than Newton at #1 and everyone wants to play like Newton is more a certainty because he's built like a DE and can run. I'm surprised that still can fool people in todays NFL. Sure, Ponder graded as a late 1st rd QB but if he becomes what you want, then its worth any pick, and if he doesn't, he'd be a bust wherever he went. At least its not a project player.

Crazy_Chris
04-29-2011, 01:28 AM
Then take a better player at pick 12 and move up to get him. I don't like overdrafting for a guy who is not very likely to be a genuine franchise QB. Still doesn't change drafting a glass QB to put behind one of the worst OL in the league either.

I honestly don't think that makes a difference. If the Vikes wanted to move back into the late first it would have more likely cost them their 2012 1st(Likely to be a top 15 pick). In either scenario they are using a high pick on him.

Giants34
04-29-2011, 01:28 AM
Then take a better player at pick 12 and move up to get him. I don't like overdrafting for a guy who is not very likely to be a genuine franchise QB. Still doesn't change drafting a glass QB to put behind one of the worst OL in the league either.

Who, Ryan Kerrigan? If you believe Christian Ponder is a franchise QB, you're gonna take a DE who is anything but a slam dunk talent and risk having to take a guy you don't believe in? Trading up/down is never a certainty...its like mating bro, it takes 2.

Nandoss
04-29-2011, 01:35 AM
new england always wins at the draft. it's not fair.

Tell that to the Patriots fans. Almost everyone is unhappy missing on a top tier rusher and letting Heyward and Wilkerson slip to the Jets and Steelers.

Iamcanadian
04-29-2011, 01:38 AM
??? They got a Kings Ranson for their pick, and took a pretty good NT prospect. They aren't a playoff team with any player in the top 10...you can't argue they didn't get better, while gang-banging the Falcons.

No, they didn't get a king's ransom, far from it. The 27th pick is a 2nd round talent and it will get even worse next year when Atlanta finishes in the 29-32 range, just more 2nd round talents.
If you call setting yourself up as an even better team than the 14-2 team of last year, getting gang banged, then you don't know what you are talking about.

vidae
04-29-2011, 01:43 AM
A Raiders fan trashing the Chiefs draft? Interesting ;)

I disagree with your assessment of the KC pick. WR was up there with NT tied for our biggest need. We had absolutely no one opposite Bowe to throw to on the outside, and if anyone can get the most out of Baldwin, it's Haley.

Plus we traded back and picked up an extra third pick. It wasn't half as bad as you think.

Giants34
04-29-2011, 01:43 AM
You know where Atlanta's finishing? You know Matt Ryan isn't tearing his ACL week 1? You know who will be available for Cleveland to pick next year? They got an extra 2nd and 4th this year, and a 1st and 4th next year...for a receiver. Compared with what was available, that is a bounty my friend, I'm sorry.

D-Unit
04-29-2011, 01:57 AM
The Bad

1. Tyron Smith to Dallas- classic workout wonder pick..played the right side in college, is small and doesn't have an offensive linemans body, and couldn't be at out Charles Brown last year at USC...Brown, the 3rd round pick whose a backup in N.O. and he goes 9 overall? As a Giants fan, hallelujah. I was worried the Giants would be tempted by him...

Brown was the LT. Smith was RT. There wasn't a competition for LT. Brown was a Senior and Smith was a Soph. Educate yourself before you act like you know what you're talking about. This was the most sound pick the Cowboys could've made at #9. We have all the weapons on offense at the skill positions. We needed help along the OL to get the most out of them. Smith is 20 years old. His future and upside is long and bright. To compare.... Philly took a Guard in Danny Watkins who is already 26.

Besides I like what Mike Mayock has to say... Future All-Pro

http://www.dallascowboys.com/multimedia/multimedia_center.cfm?id=9F2C700A-D0A3-7960-6D676331E5EE7847

Flyboy
04-29-2011, 02:01 AM
All I know is the NFC South just got even more competitive.

Giants34
04-29-2011, 02:06 AM
That's nice...you eat him up. I was hoping he'd land there. You should educate Kiper and McShay too because they actually mentioned the Charles Brown thing. Call em up and tell em they're frauds. If I told you Id give you an inexperienced, undersized RT with major questions as to whether he'd become a franchise LT, for a top 10 pick, you'd turn it down right? Great pick.

mqtirishfan
04-29-2011, 02:14 AM
Winners
1. Detroit Lions- Nick Fairley (13) Loved the Fairley pick at 13. After watching the Packers draft players for the past few seasons under TT, I'm come to love the BPA strategy. Filling the cupboard with the best possible players is a great strategy come draft day, and boy did the Lions pull that off. With apologies to Sammie Lee Hill and Corey Williams, Fairley is an immediate upgrade who will team up with Suh to punish teams inside. Top 5 talent, with a strong nucleus around him to hopefully keep him motivated and out of trouble. While there is some risk associated with his character, you can't pass up teaming up 2 top 5 DT prospects for the next 10+ years when you consider the amount of pressure you need to bring in the NFC North, particularly if you get one of them at a much lower price at #13.

2. Cleveland Browns- Phil Taylor (21) I came away very impressed by the Cleveland Front Office today. I felt that there was a dramatic drop-off in talent after Peterson was taken at 5, with the exception of Fairley, who might not have been worth the risk at pick number 6. Instead, the Browns let the Falcons fly up the first round and take their guy, earning them a plethora of new picks in the process. Then, after figuring out who their guy was and where they needed to be to get him, they pushed back up to get Taylor, who has the potential to be a very good NT for this squad's new 4-3 defense. The final result: Their 1st and 3rd round picks this year for #21, a 2nd and 4th this year, and a 1st and 4th next year. That's like trading with New England.

3. Dallas Cowboys- Tyron Smith (9) Everyone always says that Jerry Jones doesn't take Offensive Linemen in the first round. However, this was a very good time to change that. Dallas was awful at protecting Romo this year, and absolutely needed to add some young guys to the O-Line this summer. They do so with one of the most potentially scary OTs in recent history. His blend of size and speed is ridiculous, and he still has yet to reach his full potential. He's 300+ pounds now, and looked like a greek god in college at 280. He's a rare athlete and definitely worth the gamble, and I think it's great that Dallas recognized that.

4. Jets -Muhammed Wilkerson (30) and Steelers- Cameron Heyward (31) As a Packers fan, I shouted more obscenities than any man should when these two 3-4 teams picked up perfect 5-tech DEs one after the other. They're both great values at the end of the first, especially Wilkerson, they both fit the 3-4 perfectly, and they both seem to be great athletes with a load of potential. Building in the trenches is always a good idea, and both of these teams did that perfectly with less than ideal first round picks.

5. Buffalo Bills- Marcel Dareus (3); Cincinnati Bengals- AJ Green (4); Arizona Cardinals- Patrick Peterson (5) I simply have to give credit to these three teams for ignoring various factors like positional value or team needs at other positions, particularly QB, to take the top 3 prospects in this draft in consecutive picks. These are three elite prospects at positions that each team is not fully covered at, and they were able to ignore Gabbert and other teams trying to trade for these players and land potential franchise players, which is simply something to admire.


Losers

1. Minnesota Vikings- Christian Ponder (12) Did a team with serious needs along the OL honestly take an injury prone QB that was valued much lower than 12? Yes, yes they did. I think Ponder is a decent QB prospect, and has the potential to be a quality NFL starter. I don't, however, think that the Vikings have a guy on the roster right now to bridge that gap between now and when he'd be ready, and for that reason, I have a feeling they might do something really stupid like start him early in his career, which won't be fun for him... Just ask Brett Favre how it feels to play behind that Vikings OL. Throw in the fact that he's injury prone and doesn't have all that much potential in my opinion, and it's just a poor pick.

2. Atlanta Falcons- Julio Jones (7) Let me preface this by saying Julio Jones is a fantastic WR who is worth the 7th pick in the draft. But to be honest, is he worth everything they gave up in the trade and the 7th pick money combined? I don't quite think so. This is a deep WR class, and although there was a significant drop off after Jones, was WR such a big need that they needed to give the Browns everything but their franchise to get him? I don't personally think so, and don't see how this addresses the more glaring weaknesses on the team.

3. Seattle Seahawks- James Carpenter (25) This one is rather simple: The pick didn't seem to be a good value. I simply can't see Carpenter being a better pro than Gabe Carimi, and that automatically makes this a bad pick to me. Add in the fact that he might have been available with a trade back, and teams were obviously trading in this range, and I just see a reach.

4. Baltimore Ravens- Jimmy Smith (27) Maybe I'm nitpicking, but anytime you can't pull the trigger on your pick before the clock runs out, it's a bad thing. Clearly the Ravens wanted out of this pick, and somehow couldn't manage to pull it off, even though teams everywhere around them were trading up and down. They apparently put too many eggs in the Chicago basket and got burned. Then they took a guy with some interesting character issues. All in all, a poor effort.

5. New Orleans Saints- Mark Ingram (28) It's hard to consider the Saints losers, because they came away from the first round with Cam Jordan and Mark Ingram, which is pretty damn good. However, they simply overpaid to trade back up with the Patriots for Ingram, when there are plenty of quality RBs that would have certainly been available for them in the 2nd round if they had waited. The desperation for a RB led to a poor trade.

villagewarrior
04-29-2011, 02:33 AM
A Raiders fan trashing the Chiefs draft? Interesting ;)

I disagree with your assessment of the KC pick. WR was up there with NT tied for our biggest need. We had absolutely no one opposite Bowe to throw to on the outside, and if anyone can get the most out of Baldwin, it's Haley.

Plus we traded back and picked up an extra third pick. It wasn't half as bad as you think.

I agree, not entirely thrilled with the player or the package for moving down, but adding them together is a win in my opinion.

bullg8rdaddy
04-29-2011, 02:35 AM
What the Browns did to Atlanta was like the super long, way too drawn out anal rape scene in Irreversible. I'd classify the Browns as strong winners.

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/2048423/monica_bellucci_in_irreversible_rape_scene/

ummm..... thanks?

prock
04-29-2011, 02:42 AM
Julio Jones is the real winner here. **** Atlanta, **** Cleveland. Julio Jones went from playing for a ****** team in CLEVELAND to a great young team in the south. Julio Jones won the draft.

Iamcanadian
04-29-2011, 02:42 AM
Brown was the LT. Smith was RT. There wasn't a competition for LT. Brown was a Senior and Smith was a Soph. Educate yourself before you act like you know what you're talking about. This was the most sound pick the Cowboys could've made at #9. We have all the weapons on offense at the skill positions. We needed help along the OL to get the most out of them. Smith is 20 years old. His future and upside is long and bright. To compare.... Philly took a Guard in Danny Watkins who is already 26.

Besides I like what Mike Mayock has to say... Future All-Pro

http://www.dallascowboys.com/multimedia/multimedia_center.cfm?id=9F2C700A-D0A3-7960-6D676331E5EE7847

I totally agree. Not a fan of Jerry since he made himself the GM but I cannot find one thing against this pick.

Giants34
04-29-2011, 02:44 AM
I totally agree. Not a fan of Jerry since he made himself the GM but I cannot find one thing against this pick.

Why doesn't that surprise me?

Iamcanadian
04-29-2011, 02:51 AM
Why doesn't that surprise me?

Of course a Giant fan would say that knowing if Unit is right, the Giants just might have another lost season.
Of course, you know everything, just nobody else thinks so.

Giants34
04-29-2011, 02:57 AM
Don't bring him into it, you're a big boy. That pick doesn't make me nervous whatsoever. Taking a guy that wasn't so much a project, that might have worked better. Hell, I love the idea of Osi, Tuck and JPP pushing him around...I invite it. If he pans out, so be it. I don't like him as a prospect. Had the Giants taken him, Id be very concerned for Eli's safety. Considering how reliable you are, it doesn't surprise me you're a Tyron Smith fan. You have any day 2 guarantees? I'm going to Vegas...

Iamcanadian
04-29-2011, 03:02 AM
Good luck in Vegas!!!

prock
04-29-2011, 03:04 AM
I feel like the Rams and Lions would both be better off if they switched picks...

D-Unit
04-29-2011, 03:14 AM
That's nice...you eat him up. I was hoping he'd land there. You should educate Kiper and McShay too because they actually mentioned the Charles Brown thing. Call em up and tell em they're frauds. If I told you Id give you an inexperienced, undersized RT with major questions as to whether he'd become a franchise LT, for a top 10 pick, you'd turn it down right? Great pick.
He has major questions about him by who? You? Who are you?

Inexperienced my ass. 3 years in the Pac-10 for one of the best schools in the nation. Undersized at 6'5, 310 with long arms??? You're kidding right? Whether he becomes a LT is irrelevant for us. Our best OL last year was our LT Doug Free.

Oh and btw, don't gobble up every word Kiper and McShay say. They are often many times wrong. It doesn't make them frauds... but they are ESPN analysts, not NFL scouts.

Docta
04-29-2011, 03:48 AM
The Saints aren't winners or losers. Picking a RB in the first round was stupid enough, but they decided to even give up picks to do it.

villagewarrior
04-29-2011, 04:15 AM
I really am not a fan of Tyron Smith either. He's never played at 300 pounds. Can he keep that weight on through training camp? During the season? Will he retain that athleticism playing at a heavier weight? He rose so fast because of his athleticism.

TonyGfortheTD
04-29-2011, 05:04 AM
A Raiders fan trashing the Chiefs draft? Interesting ;)

I disagree with your assessment of the KC pick. WR was up there with NT tied for our biggest need. We had absolutely no one opposite Bowe to throw to on the outside, and if anyone can get the most out of Baldwin, it's Haley.

Plus we traded back and picked up an extra third pick. It wasn't half as bad as you think.

It's humorous, because he of all people should know WR is a huge need if he actually watched the Raiders play. Once they figured out the Chiefs had nothing at WO beyond Bowe and doubled up on him, they had a field day vs. the Chiefs offense.

WR was a big need.

The Browns made a good trade, than gave up a day 2 selection they still needed to draft someone on the line for a position they needed least. To complete the chain, they actually need to do smart things with the picks.

As for the Lions taking Fairley, am I the only one that thinks they didn't do that great? Fairley is far from a certain thing, they have swiss cheese at CB and decided to pass on Amukamara and Stafford is still sitting in the fetal position at home.

FUNBUNCHER
04-29-2011, 06:40 AM
Tyron Smith was an outstanding need pick for the Cowboys. He was a LT athlete playing on the right side at USC, and his upside is unlimited. He's already strong, ( pounded 29 reps at the combine), and who really cares about his playing weight at USC??

D'Brickashaw Ferguson never played above 290-295# at UVA, and he too bulked up before the combine.

20 yearsold, chalk pick.

I still can't get over what Detroit did for their franchise by picking Fairley. Once Suh/Fairley hit their groove, they will be the perfect antidote to Aaron Rodgers and Jay Cutler.

Atlanta gave up too much to pick up Julio Jones, but apparently the Falcons believe they are one player away from a SB. God bless them.

People are limiting themselves in their thinking what role an OLB plays in a 43. Von Miller is going to be a primary pass-rusher lined up wide on OTs, or moving up and down the LOS shooting gaps with occasional coverage responsibilities. A playmaker who will make an impact regardless, BPA.

I wanted to see Jonathan Baldwin in St. Louis, but IMO he will be a great addition to KC and their version of Vincent Jackson. Offense should be even more potent.

Saints can trade Reggie Bush now with no guilt, their running game just improved dramatically. Gregg Williams just picked up on of the more versatile Dlineman in this draft and apparently one of the most underrated; I thought he was a top 12 talent.

If the Bears couldn't snag one of the top WRs, at least give Cutler more time to set up and actually complete a pass. I think Carimi does that from Day One.

Only real loser IMO is the Vikes reaching on Ponder, who IMO at his best is Marc Bulger with a slightly stronger arm, but that's not awful.

Pats at some point need to PICK PLAYERS and not stockpile 2nd-4th round picks hoping to find uncut diamonds. NE needs playmakers on D and offense, not more solid, lunchpail guys.

Eagles I think will regret taking Baylor G Watkins that high with all the top tier talent still left on the board. Personally I would have taken Cam Jordan or given Justin Houston a really long look, because of his ability to play with a hand down or standing up. They don't have a real closer on defense either.

jriles0522
04-29-2011, 06:53 AM
No, they didn't get a king's ransom, far from it. The 27th pick is a 2nd round talent and it will get even worse next year when Atlanta finishes in the 29-32 range, just more 2nd round talents.
If you call setting yourself up as an even better team than the 14-2 team of last year, getting gang banged, then you don't know what you are talking about.

Let me ask you something. When was the last time Pittsburgh, Baltimore, New England, Indy, Green Bay drafted in the top 6? Aside from Hawk I can't think of any, and these are the best teams in the league!

If you call Aaron Rogers, Clay Mathews, Greg Jennings, Ed Reed, Troy Polamalu, Ray Lewis, Mendenhall, Hampton, Santonio Holmes, Pouncey, Wilfork, Meriweather, McCourty, etc "2nd round talent'' you are being ignorant.

An impact player you can get ANYWHERE. Especially bottom of round 1.

And don't pencil the Falcons into the super bowl either. They are miserable on D, and are an injury to ryan/turner away from struggling terribly. They have a tough division with the Saints, and the Bucs and play Houston, Indy, Green Bay, Chicago, Philly. They could easily go 8-8, 9-7. Putting us in the teens.

drd23
04-29-2011, 06:57 AM
4. Baltimore Ravens- Jimmy Smith (27) Maybe I'm nitpicking, but anytime you can't pull the trigger on your pick before the clock runs out, it's a bad thing. Clearly the Ravens wanted out of this pick, and somehow couldn't manage to pull it off, even though teams everywhere around them were trading up and down. They apparently put too many eggs in the Chicago basket and got burned. Then they took a guy with some interesting character issues. All in all, a poor effort.
You do realise that the trade was done with more than 2 minutes left OTC but Chicago never called it in to the NFL and didnt call the Ravens until time had run out, right? Are they supposed to keep taking offers after they've called the trade in?

And picking up a 4th to move down 3 spots when the guy we were taking at 26 was more than likely going to be there are 29 is "clearly want[ing] out of [the] pick"?

Finally, I'm pretty sure we were taking Jimmy Smith anyway. The Fo has done their homework on him and most of the "interesting" character issues are from a few years ago with not much having happened recently

bitonti
04-29-2011, 07:00 AM
"The Falcons gave up too much! The Falcons got a #2 WR! Blah blah blah!"

If Jones plays up to his potential, Falcon's fans won't be complaining in the long run. Obviously a big if. We'll see.

+1 this is not a team with a dozen empty roster spots either. They needed to get a little better at a couple of positions. Julio Jones by the way is a human freak. if you ever get the chance to see this guy IRL, he's like a pickup truck on 2 legs. that runs a 4.3... on a broken foot (!)

Crazy.

scottyboy
04-29-2011, 07:00 AM
the Giants are winners because at 19 they absolutely stole a premiere talent. somewhere Dez Bryant is crying. I love Corey Webster, but the Giants stole a shutdown corner

bitonti
04-29-2011, 07:01 AM
Tyron Smith was an outstanding need pick for the Cowboys.

Eagles I think will regret taking Baylor G Watkins that high with all the top tier talent still left on the board.


Tyron Smith was a hype pick and they bought the hype. Great athlete with 16 career starts at RT. at 9 overall. Mmm-kay. agree about the Eagles. Watkins is a decent but not great pick. He's got flaws and no upside for probowl.

bitonti
04-29-2011, 07:09 AM
thought both 5 tech picks at 30 and 31 were great. NYJ and PIT getting Wilkerson and Heyward. Steals... and arguably better pick than SD taking Liuget at 18.

FUNBUNCHER
04-29-2011, 07:16 AM
Amukamara strengthens the Giants defensive backfield and gives them needed quality depth, but he's not an eraser at corner. He can be beaten, and does.

One on one, I think Dez wins that matchup 9/10.

king2am
04-29-2011, 07:18 AM
Does San Francisco have any idea what they want to do on defense? Really?

Yeah. They're running a 3-4 defense. Vic Fangio is from the Dom Capers coaching tree.


Its been years where they're just not evaluating personnel properly

Vernon Davis, Patrick Willis, Joe Staley, Michael Crabtree, Anthony Davis, Mike Iupati ... are there misses in there? Sure. But that's a blanket statement you made, and it's beyond stupid.

They draft a DE that plays his best over a guard... to play OLB in a 34? Again... personnel... do you not know it?

He doesn't play his best over a guard, he was simply used there in certain situations because his college coaches knew it was a terrible mismatch. He shows great explosion and burst off the edge. He's only a RS Soph and will only get thicker in his frame. Will play 3-4 OLB and DE in passing downs.

I thought they should have moved down in the draft. Take an easy deal and grab a DE like Cameron Jordan or JJ Watt. Then move up and draft a Brooks Reed at the end of round 1

Riiiiiiight. Because if someone wants to trade down, they can choose to do that whenever they want. No. Someone has to WANT to move up first, and then you don't just take "an easy deal" as you put it, you need to get good value. Also, rush linebacker is a FAR greater needed than DE is. Not to mention the tremendous depth along the defensive line this year, taking Aldon Smith was the right choice for our scheme.

Heaven forbid they didn't call you with your obvious drat expertise to make the decision.

You got 10 draft picks. Go out and do something. Instead they sit around and draft guys that don't fit their scheme.

It's 12. Not 10.

And they didn't draft guys that don't fit their scheme. They drafted a guy that many project to a 3-4 outside linebacker. And when I say many, I mean, more people who actually get paid to make these decisions.

scottyboy
04-29-2011, 07:23 AM
Amukamara strengthens the Giants defensive backfield and gives them needed quality depth, but he's not an eraser at corner. He can be beaten, and does.

One on one, I think Dez wins that matchup 9/10.

He's young and extremely raw. He's got all the potential in the world to be a lock down corner. And I doubt that. I know Dez is the greatest thing in the world, but if we go into the season and have either Webster or Prince lined up against Dez, I'm confident in that. Plus, it leaves the other of the CB's to cover Miles.

and that's stupid, every corner can get beaten and does. and you're going a little strong with saying dez wins 9/10. we're acting like Dez came out and dominated at WR. he got shut down 1v1. he's not god's gift to the earth.
but we'll just have to see on the field. Prince v Dez could be a nice fun matchup for years to come

AntoinCD
04-29-2011, 07:32 AM
Pats at some point need to PICK PLAYERS and not stockpile 2nd-4th round picks hoping to find uncut diamonds. NE needs playmakers on D and offense, not more solid, lunchpail guys.



The Pats got an OT with almost no ceiling and will be coached by one of, if not, the best O line coaches in the NFL. Then at 28 they decide to trade for a future first round pick and a second. I dont care where the Saints finish next year that's good business. This isn't a particularly good draft so it makes sense to add future picks. Only really Miller, Dareus, Green and Peterson in this draft are guys you would be confident in trading up for to get an elite player and after that there are major question marks about others or a big dropoff in talent. If they think there is better value in getting a future first and taking someone like Allen Bailey in the second over taking Heyward or Wilkerson for example at 28 then they made the right choice.

wicket
04-29-2011, 07:38 AM
The Pats got an OT with almost no ceiling and will be coached by one of, if not, the best O line coaches in the NFL. Then at 28 they decide to trade for a future first round pick and a second. I dont care where the Saints finish next year that's good business. This isn't a particularly good draft so it makes sense to add future picks. Only really Miller, Dareus, Green and Peterson in this draft are guys you would be confident in trading up for to get an elite player and after that there are major question marks about others or a big dropoff in talent. If they think there is better value in getting a future first and taking someone like Allen Bailey in the second over taking Heyward or Wilkerson for example at 28 then they made the right choice.

I agree about the saints trade, part of the reason im still fuming about that trade is the terrible trade value on our end. That was just a really solid job by the pats.

Basically spending two premier picks on a guy the team doesnt need nor has any use for just makes it so much worse

lacotomo
04-29-2011, 07:40 AM
No, they didn't get a king's ransom, far from it. The 27th pick is a 2nd round talent and it will get even worse next year when Atlanta finishes in the 29-32 range, just more 2nd round talents.
If you call setting yourself up as an even better team than the 14-2 team of last year, getting gang banged, then you don't know what you are talking about.

I just don't agree with this thought process. Most players on a team are NOT first rounders. I don't like the pick they got in #1, but they got value for the trade, and in a draft where there were only a couple 'elite' players, I would argue that the 2-4th round guys are more plentiful. Add the fact that there were a lot of reaches in the first round, so 1st round talent is still there in the second round. They will help a team that hasn't made the playoffs in a long time. What they do with their 2nds will be huge, and I foresee both 2nd round picks starting depending on who they are(the Browns still have a lot of holes). You make 2nd rounders sound like guys that will be cut that we could have gotten in free agency.
I am hoping for a good CB and a LB here in day two. I like Brandon Harris at CB and how about Akeem Ayers from UCLA at LB? I would take Justin Houston from Georgia late in the 2nd too and put his finger in the dirt as a DE at 6'2, 270. They can use the line help.

Edit: and I would LOVE it if they rolled the dice if De'Quan Bowers was there at #6 in the 2nd. With the extra picks, they can give him a shot if they think he is healthy.

yodabear
04-29-2011, 08:17 AM
There is not enough Robert Quinn discussion in here. It was a great pick for us especially when u throw in Detroit, is Hitler running that team now? Its no fair, all the good DTs can't go there.

Matthew Jones
04-29-2011, 08:23 AM
My favorite picks:

Houston Texans select J.J. Watt (#11)

Indianapolis Colts select Anthony Castonzo (#22)

Philadelphia Eagles select Danny Watkins (#23)

New Orleans Saints select Cameron Jordan (#24)

Chicago Bears select Gabe Carimi (#29)

My least favorite picks:

Jacksonville Jaguars select Blaine Gabbert (#10)

Cleveland Browns select Phil Taylor (#21)

Seattle Seahawks select James Carpenter (#25)

Kansas City Chiefs select Jon Baldwin (#26)

Baltimore Ravens select Jimmy Smith (#27)

jth1331
04-29-2011, 08:36 AM
The people saying Von Miller was a "lose" pick for the Broncos don't understand the Broncos view Miller as a potential Derrick Thomas/Lawrence Taylor disruptive force LB.
I would've preferred Peterson, but I hope the Broncos find ways to use Miller.

phlysac
04-29-2011, 08:37 AM
Yeah. They're running a 3-4 defense. Vic Fangio is from the Dom Capers coaching tree.




Vernon Davis, Patrick Willis, Joe Staley, Michael Crabtree, Anthony Davis, Mike Iupati ... are there misses in there? Sure. But that's a blanket statement you made, and it's beyond stupid.



He doesn't play his best over a guard, he was simply used there in certain situations because his college coaches knew it was a terrible mismatch. He shows great explosion and burst off the edge. He's only a RS Soph and will only get thicker in his frame. Will play 3-4 OLB and DE in passing downs.



Riiiiiiight. Because if someone wants to trade down, they can choose to do that whenever they want. No. Someone has to WANT to move up first, and then you don't just take "an easy deal" as you put it, you need to get good value. Also, rush linebacker is a FAR greater needed than DE is. Not to mention the tremendous depth along the defensive line this year, taking Aldon Smith was the right choice for our scheme.

Heaven forbid they didn't call you with your obvious drat expertise to make the decision.



It's 12. Not 10.

And they didn't draft guys that don't fit their scheme. They drafted a guy that many project to a 3-4 outside linebacker. And when I say many, I mean, more people who actually get paid to make these decisions.

kudos my dear friend

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to king2am again.

TimmG6376
04-29-2011, 08:46 AM
Not really looking forward to facing the Suh|Fairley combo next season, but after coming to terms with that I wonder whether long term that pick makes sense. If Fairley lives up to his potential they will have two stud DTs whose rookie deals will expire very close to each other. Will they be able to afford to keep both of them when that time comes? Short term it makes that defense pretty formidable, but long term is it financially feasible?

draftguru151
04-29-2011, 08:47 AM
Winners: The entire top 5, Titans, Lions, Rams, Saints, Ravens, Jets, Packers

Losers: Seahawks (Only team that I think made a legitimately bad pick)

Meh: 49ers, Jags, Dolphins, Patriots, Bucs, Chargers, Browns

marshallb
04-29-2011, 09:06 AM
For those of you who are hating on the Vikings picking Ponder because of the fact that we have a horrendous offensive line, when did the rest of the draft happen and when did free agency happen? The team still has plenty of opportunities to upgrade the O-Line. Now if they don't do that and go into the season with what they've got, then sure, you can hate on it for that reason, but at this point in time, no, you've got no reason to hate it for that. Hate it for other reasons, such as it being a reach or whatever you want.

Splat
04-29-2011, 09:10 AM
I'm mixed on the Chiefs taking Baldwin. I do think WR is/was a much bigger need then some people realized outside of Bowe they have nothing.

I do feel he would have been there in the second but I'm not so sure he would have been there when the Chiefs picked.

Grizzlegom
04-29-2011, 09:17 AM
Winners: Broncos, Bills, Bengals, Titans, Jaguars, Texans, Redskins, Giants, Colts, Ravens, Saints, Bears, Steelers
Losers: Panthers, 49ers, Lions, Chargers, Chiefs

On the fence: Cardinals (if they get Kolb they are winners, if they don't they are losers), Falcons (gave up too much but Roddy White and Julio isn't fair), Patriots (hated their pick, can't help but love that trade), Browns (love the trades, meh on the pick)

Everyone else I consider solid. Not great, not terrible.

the_dark_knight
04-29-2011, 09:19 AM
Winners:
#1-Atlanta Falcons- People can say I have homer glasses or whatever they like, but the fact that the Falcons were able to negotiate a deal to get a player that would have never been available at any of the picks that they gave up is amazing. They gave up 4 picks, and swapped firsts, so quit saying they gave up 5, that's not true. The Falcons offense has one of the NFL's best WRs, a bright young QB, but the offense was plagued because people put 8 in the box to stop Turner and Gonzo, and then rolled help over Roddy doubling him constantly. Now when teams do that, they'll be facing Julio Jones, not Michael Jenkins and that's just not fair. The Falcons got their guy, the best fit at the biggest position of need. Others like Green more, but Julio's character, and blocking ability likely had him ahead of Green for the Falcons, despite Green being the home town boy. The Falcons are a team who has tried the sit back and wait approach, now they have built a team with a huge core of young players who are developing nicely, and needed a threat at the #2 WR position to go from a very good offense to an elite one. It's not like the Falcons had a ton of glaring holes to fill. I could go on, but I really don't need to.

#2-Detroit Lions- WHAAAT, Detroit has totally changed their team with the last 2 drafts and it's amazing what they've been able to build in such a short time. Looking up for the motor city for the first time in a very very long time. Putting those 2 monsters in the middle are going to force teams to the outside, but it's also going to give them massive interior pass rush ability. Suh is a horse by himself, but now you team him with this year's #13 overall selection and you've got a big time problem for the NFC North. Williams wall is falling to pieces in Minnesota, and Detroit just built the great wall of china to replace it. Great job by Detroit sticking to their board, and playing a game of chicken and WINNING!

#3-New England Patriots- They hosed the Saints getting their first round pick next year, and another second round pick this year, for a Runningback who has Ron Dayne 2.0 written all over him.

#4-Jacksonville Jaguars- I think with Gabbert taking a tumble a few spots further than most expected, Jacksonville made out like bandits. Everyone knows they didn't really like Garrard, and they love big massive offensive line that doesn't really move quite as well for a mobile QB. Now you're going to have a QB who can scramble, but doesn't have to scramble, with a big arm, and a guy who can make all the throws. I think J-ville just took a big step up, especially if they give him a little time to develop.

#5-Baltimore Ravens- They got potentially the best cover corner in the draft, who yes, has off the field issues, to join the strongest defensive locker room in the NFL. This kid has superstar written all over him, especially after Ray Ray and Ed get in his ear and straighten him out. I hate the Ravens, but they really really were big winners last night.

----------------------------------

Losers:
#1-New Orleans Saints-they might not be the biggest losers in the draft, but they are the first ones that come to mind, mostly because I hate them, as a Falcons fan, but also because they gave up their 2nd round pick this year, AND first next year, to get a RB who I don't think is going to be a big success in the NFL, I think he was a great college player, and his feet and ability will help him have some good games (Likely against the Falcons) but he just reminds me SO much of Ron Dayne. Doesn't have the speed to do it in the NFL like he did in college, and as strong as he is, everyone in the NFL is strong, so it's not as obvious as it was in college. Not to mention they traded with friggin Bill and the Gaytriots, ugh.

#2-Tampa Bay Bucs- Clayborne isn't a bad guy, and it's not anything against him personally, but his physical malady restricts him to playing on 1 side of the defensive line only, and no one knows if he can ever really gain strength. If he's at his ceiling now then the Bucs just screwed the pooch, when they could have really used help at a lot of other positions. For a team that over achieved last year, they needed a strong pick to not have a fall back, and I don't think this was the pick for them. I think Clayborne is a big whiff (btw, not just because he's a Buc, go look at what I said every time Scott mocked him to the Falcons)

#3-New England Patriots- wait, how can they be winners and losers right? They picked Nate Solder that's how. I think the kid is mediocre at best, and they took him very high in the draft. I know Bill is the guru of stockpiling picks etc, and they desperately needed offensive line help, but they took Solder way too high in my opinion.

#4-Philadelphia Eagles- When you select the worst player picked in the first round, and you're not picking #32 or at least close, you're a loser. Way to go, I'm glad Watkins got picked by them, and I'm happy for him to get their money, but the Eagles totally botched this one. Btw, how are those trade offers for Kolb last year sounding now?

#5-Seattle Seahawks- you picked the 2nd worst player selected in the first round, so you also get a big L. A tackle who is likely going to be forced to play guard in the NFL, and you've got too many other needs to go making picks like this one.

There are some others I think were very borderline winners too that I really wanted to put but I just didn't have the room since we were only doing 5. It was actually hard to pick 5 losers, I think most everyone did really well last night in the draft.

Like the Giants, they added a very good player a big position of need and they didn't have to do anything but sit and wait to get him. What a great player for them to have fall right in their laps, nice job for the Giants. New Orleans getting Cam Jordan all the way down there towards the bottom of the first is another win. I can't believe they got him down there and honestly I hate it. I don't want them getting quality players like him, but oh well, New England and a few others screwed the pooch on that one for me =/

jaa1025
04-29-2011, 09:20 AM
Baldwin was a great pick. Pioli could not have done better in my opinion. Huge, tall, fast receiver opposite of Bowe. The Chiefs receiving core last year was awful outside of Bowe and Moeaki (sp) at TE. Baltimore completely exposed the Chiefs offense in the playoffs when they took Bowe out (and injured Charles).

His "character" concerns are very over blown. You put Baldwin with a competent QB and coaching staff in college and he's a top 10 pick.

Jughead10
04-29-2011, 09:26 AM
For those of you who are hating on the Vikings picking Ponder because of the fact that we have a horrendous offensive line, when did the rest of the draft happen and when did free agency happen? The team still has plenty of opportunities to upgrade the O-Line. Now if they don't do that and go into the season with what they've got, then sure, you can hate on it for that reason, but at this point in time, no, you've got no reason to hate it for that. Hate it for other reasons, such as it being a reach or whatever you want.

I think people hate the pick because no one, except the Vikings apparently, think he's worth remotely close to the 12th pick.

Grizzlegom
04-29-2011, 09:30 AM
I think people hate the pick because no one, except the Vikings apparently, think he's worth remotely close to the 12th pick.

I'd put money that Miami would have taken him if he was still there at 15 honestly.

Jughead10
04-29-2011, 09:33 AM
I'd put money that Miami would have taken him if he was still there at 15 honestly.

They might of. Or Washington at 16. And they would all be equally stupid. People knock San Frans pick. I love what San Fran did. As long as they didn't take a QB they're a winner in my book. They're starting from scratch, or at least they should. I wonder how competitive some teams are going to be late in this upcoming season, once the Luck sweepstakes begins.

If Washington somehow gets Mallet in the second round after trading back, I think they'd be a winner at that point. Not used to saying that.

K Train
04-29-2011, 09:40 AM
steelers=epic win

marshallb
04-29-2011, 09:44 AM
I think people hate the pick because no one, except the Vikings apparently, think he's worth remotely close to the 12th pick.

If you read through this thread and in the Vikings team forum, and elsewhere, people were hating on it because of our "horrendous OL". I said that it's fine to hate it for other reasons, including the value, although I think it's stupid to have loved the pick as it seems many would have if we'd traded down a handful of picks and still gotten him, which the Vikings said they wanted to do, but had no takers, and like Grizz said, risk Miami or Washington taking him.

keylime_5
04-29-2011, 09:58 AM
The Browns drafted Phil Taylor to play the 3 technique. Remember when Dick Jauron was in Chicago he had Keith Traylor and Ted Washington as his DTs. The Browns apparently want enormous DTs to eat up blockers and smaller, faster, pass rushing DEs on the outside to go one-on-one with OTs. That's why they liked Phil Taylor so much and moved up to get him.

The Browns made the great trade and everyone's talking about it all over the media, but New England's butt-raping of the Saints is kinda flying under the radar. An extra 2nd and a 2012 1st in exchange for #28 used on a runningback (the most easily filled position in football by far) is borderline highway robbery. Ingram better be a 1500 yard, multiple pro bowl player to justify what they gave up for him.

Splat
04-29-2011, 10:28 AM
The Jonathan Baldwin pick really falls on Todd Haley. It's up him to do for Baldwin what he did for Bowe.

Like I said early I don't love the pick but don't hate it either. I do like that they traded down first and got another 3rd before they took him.

noondog
04-29-2011, 10:36 AM
It's humorous, because he of all people should know WR is a huge need if he actually watched the Raiders play. Once they figured out the Chiefs had nothing at WO beyond Bowe and doubled up on him, they had a field day vs. the Chiefs offense.

WR was a big need.

The Browns made a good trade, than gave up a day 2 selection they still needed to draft someone on the line for a position they needed least. To complete the chain, they actually need to do smart things with the picks.

As for the Lions taking Fairley, am I the only one that thinks they didn't do that great? Fairley is far from a certain thing, they have swiss cheese at CB and decided to pass on Amukamara and Stafford is still sitting in the fetal position at home.

1. Draft lasts more than 1 round. The Lions can still address OL, OLB and CB.
2. Free agency. Hasn't happened yet to my knowledge.

The Lions O-line played well in pass protection last year. Running game not so much, but it certainly isn't the weakness you make it out to be. Stafford's injury last year was of the freak variety. He scrambled and was tripped up from behind...**** happens. I do agree that improvements could and should be made there, but not to the point where it's worth bypassing the BPA at #13.

As for CB, the Lions and several other teams passed on Prince prior to him going to the G-men at #19. There is likely a reason for that. There should be a decent CB or two available to them in the 2nd, however Mayhew clearly subscribes to the straight BPA approach regardless of need, so we'll see what happens. Can also be addressed in FA. My pipe dream is having Asomougha sign in Detroit...that would be so very sick. Note that I did say pipe dream and am very aware of the chances of it happening.

Back to the FA point for a moment, the Lions made themselves far more attractive to FA defensive players with the addition of Fairley imo. A 4 man DT rotation of Suh, Fairley, Williams and Hill? I have to imagine that a lot of players would love the idea of playing with them. Past that, Williams is 31 and the Lions just solidified the position at least 3 deep (with Hill) for the next 10 years. They've seen an awful lot of what the Williams wall did for Minny over the past 8 or 9 years and it seemed to work out pretty damn well for them.

On a tangent, the NFL Network's commentators reaction when the camera went to Fairley on the phone prior to the announcement of Fairley was classic. Something along the lines of "this can't be fair". :D

SRogers92
04-29-2011, 10:43 AM
^

The Lions have holes no doubt, but -- the previous poster whiffed on his analysis.

First off, I love how people forget about Rounds 2,3,4,5,6,7. Secondly, as you stated, there's a free agency period.

Thirdly - as you also stated, we had one of the most efficient pass blocking OLs in the NFL. We didn't run block great, but a lot of that was Jahvid Best's inability to break a tackle. When Mo Morris was our starter were churned out some pretty big running games. They aren't that bad run blocking, either.

Fourthly, while our CBs need work ... Chris Houston was awesome for us. While he's a FA with the CBA still not being decided upon, I hear we'll have him for another 2 years. Alphonso Smith was very strong for us, too. We still need a premier number one to make us 3 deep at CB, but -- we're not terrible there. Our Front 4 also helps.


The Fairley pick was awesome. I really haven't even been remotely close to convinced it wasn't the right pick.

Rosebud
04-29-2011, 10:50 AM
I'll just add one real loser, Cleveland!
Trading back for value is one thing but trading back for the 27th pick is ridiculous, and next year's picks will likely fall in the 29-32 range, just absurd.
That late in each round and you are in reality talking about a round lower in talent. The 27th and 29-32 round 1 picks are basically round 2 talents.
Whatever happened in Cleveland to the idea that you use high draft picks to find real impact players to act as the cornerstones around which a team can be rebuilt, what good is a bunch of average starters when you have no impact players.
This draft basically dooms Cleveland to years of continuing mediocrity.

If you've got a strong environment of competition you can find impact players more easily later on in the draft. Guys have to compete against better players and can learn from better players. It increase how often they'll hit on high-upside project guys down the road if they can build up a deep team.

bitonti
04-29-2011, 10:52 AM
The Browns drafted Phil Taylor to play the 3 technique..

great idea take a player that can't pass rush and put him at the 3-tech. ok

PossibleCabbage
04-29-2011, 10:58 AM
great idea take a player that can't pass rush and put him at the 3-tech. ok

More likely they line him as the 4-3 Nose (a la Pat Williams of the Williams wall). You don't need both DTs to be pass rushers.

FrankGore
04-29-2011, 11:02 AM
Oddly enough I thought the worst moves were the trades by New Orleans and Atlanta. I didn't think either prospect was worth giving up what was given up, and I didn't think either one remotely addressed positions that were needed to push either team over the edge.

Monomach
04-29-2011, 11:13 AM
great idea take a player that can't pass rush and put him at the 3-tech. ok

Like he said...Jauron made it work with Ted Washington and Keith Traylor. Putting a big fat guy at both DT spots made Urlacher and Rosey Colvin look amazing.

Arsenal
04-29-2011, 11:16 AM
Most people seem to either love or hate the 49ers pick. It filled a huge need and I really don't think Aldon was as big of a reach as people think. Really surprising but I love it. The 49ers haven't had a good pass rusher in seemingly forever, maybe since Charles Haley. They had to get a OLB or CB here since Harbaugh obviously isn't a huge fan of Gabbert or Locker.

Wade Phillips said that the Texans were targeting Aldon Smith at #11. If Wade Phillips and Vic Fangio each like him it's good enough for me.

https://twitter.com/#!/evansilva/status/63996418540568577

keylime_5
04-29-2011, 11:17 AM
The 2000 Ravens had Sam Adams and Tony Siragusa as well. I think the Bills had Sam Adams and Ted Washington. Two nose tackles in the middle of the defensive line isn't a bad thing. I think Taylor's pass rush abilities are underrated as well. He could be another Kris Jenkins type.

keylime_5
04-29-2011, 11:18 AM
For those of you who are hating on the Vikings picking Ponder because of the fact that we have a horrendous offensive line, when did the rest of the draft happen and when did free agency happen? The team still has plenty of opportunities to upgrade the O-Line. Now if they don't do that and go into the season with what they've got, then sure, you can hate on it for that reason, but at this point in time, no, you've got no reason to hate it for that. Hate it for other reasons, such as it being a reach or whatever you want.

I think Ponder is worth a top 15 pick without question if he didn't have so many injuries throughout his college career. Spielman obviously is gambling that that trend won't continue in the NFL. Before last season it seems that everyone had Locker and Ponder in the top 12. After disappointing senior years everyone thought it was out of the question, but apparently not.

SoCalBam
04-29-2011, 11:20 AM
I'm mixed on the Chiefs taking Baldwin. I do think WR is/was a much bigger need then some people realized outside of Bowe they have nothing.

I do feel he would have been there in the second but I'm not so sure he would have been there when the Chiefs picked.


They had to pick up Kevin Curtis to start in the playoffs. He was the #4 WR on the Rams when they won the Super Bowl. The Chiefs had to get a WR. Plus picking up an extra pick was nice.

roscoesdad27
04-29-2011, 11:25 AM
Like he said...Jauron made it work with Ted Washington and Keith Traylor. Putting a big fat guy at both DT spots made Urlacher and Rosey Colvin look amazing.

the best defense of all times also used this strategy with goose and Sam Adams....it was still s dumb move cause u didn't have to trade up + Wilkerson was also still available.

keylime_5
04-29-2011, 11:37 AM
apparently Taylor was much higher on the Browns' board than Wilkerson. I think they had him rated very highly, thus the trade up. Losing the third isn't so bad after gaining a fourth and an extra second.

TimmG6376
04-29-2011, 11:43 AM
No, they didn't get a king's ransom, far from it. The 27th pick is a 2nd round talent and it will get even worse next year when Atlanta finishes in the 29-32 range, just more 2nd round talents.
If you call setting yourself up as an even better team than the 14-2 team of last year, getting gang banged, then you don't know what you are talking about.

Player - Draft Position
Rodgers - 24
Clifton - 44
Colledge - 47
Wells - 251
Sitton - 135
Bulaga - 23
Starks - 193
Jennings - 52
Jones - 78
Driver - 213
Nelson - 36
Jackson - 63
Kuhn - UDFA

Raji - 9
Wilson - 230
Jenkins - UDFA
Matthews - 26
Hawk - 5
Bishop - 192
Zombo - UDFA
Williams - UDFA
Shields - UDFA
Collins - 51

Didn't include FAs like Woodson and Pickett since they were FA acquisitions.

Granted there are some key first rounders in there but also a lot of players on that list that were drafted well below the 20s.

Nikolas
04-29-2011, 11:44 AM
A few comments:

The Cleveland-Atlanta trade: This worked out well for both teams. Atlanta needed a solid WR, and this class is very thin on quality receivers. Assuming Jones lives up to his pick, this is a great way to fill a gap in a team that is pushing for a Superbowl Run.

This was a good scenario for Cleveland as well. While it's true that Atlanta's first round pick next year will almost certainly be in the 20s, this year's class only had 3-4 standout players. Once you get down to sixth pick, you're getting almost the same caliber of player as you can get at 20. And Cleveland needs a LOT of solid players to rebuild. By moving back they save money and get picks, and set themselves up for next year when a rookie cap is in place.

My biggest loser for this draft is the Carolina Panthers. Cam Newton reminds me of Jamarcus Russell, and I predict he will hold out for a huge contract on par with Sam Bradford, and then will sit behind Claussen the whole year and never live up to the hype. Within 5 years he'll be a backup somewhere else, and within 8 he'll be out of the league and possibly facing charges.

lod01
04-29-2011, 11:50 AM
Carolina is the huge loser. The team set itself back 3-5 years. Additionally because they took Scam Newton, they will miss out on Andrew Luck even thought there is a great chance they pick #1 again in 2012. Still won't be able to put up points with Scam. Won't win a game in their division with Scam. One of the tougher divisions in NFL right now. Best hope is to be able to trade the 2012 pick to a team in need of a QB, then watch that team excel while they try and teach Scam how to play NFL QB.

initial_flo
04-29-2011, 12:00 PM
I'm mixed on the Chiefs taking Baldwin. I do think WR is/was a much bigger need then some people realized outside of Bowe they have nothing.

I do feel he would have been there in the second but I'm not so sure he would have been there when the Chiefs picked.

It's strange to me that for the Chiefs, they not have 2 Dwayne Bowes. I don't get why they didn't wait and get a smaller deep play guy down the line.

And saying that, Baldwin is my boy, totally on his bandwagon.

descendency
04-29-2011, 12:00 PM
The only losers are Seattle and Philadelphia. Everyone else I think got fair value for their picks. (Then again, I had Locker as my #1 QB, but I'm also giving Jacksonville the benefit of the doubt because I had Gabbert like 8th)

nepg
04-29-2011, 12:03 PM
If you don't think WR was the Chiefs' biggest need, you probably have brain damage. The issue with whether they'd draft one in the first was more of a historical evidence and talent issue.

This was a Haley pick, not so much a Pioli pick.

nepg
04-29-2011, 12:12 PM
It's strange to me that for the Chiefs, they not have 2 Dwayne Bowes. I don't get why they didn't wait and get a smaller deep play guy down the line.

And saying that, Baldwin is my boy, totally on his bandwagon.

I don't think this English...

But Haley ran an offense with Anquan Boldin and Larry Fitzgerald. And the Chiefs need more than one receiver out of this off-season. Their biggest need this off-season was an outside guy (Baldwin), but they still need a slot receiver.

Defensively, they just need to add depth. Their weakness defensively in 2010 was just a lack of depth. Offensively, they definitely need a couple new guys to play a large role in the receiving department.

initial_flo
04-29-2011, 12:22 PM
I don't think this English...

But Haley ran an offense with Anquan Boldin and Larry Fitzgerald. And the Chiefs need more than one receiver out of this off-season. Their biggest need this off-season was an outside guy (Baldwin), but they still need a slot receiver.

Defensively, they just need to add depth. Their weakness defensively in 2010 was just a lack of depth. Offensively, they definitely need a couple new guys to play a large role in the receiving department.

Zing...

and I think you convinced me

villagewarrior
04-29-2011, 12:38 PM
I don't think this English...

But Haley ran an offense with Anquan Boldin and Larry Fitzgerald. And the Chiefs need more than one receiver out of this off-season. Their biggest need this off-season was an outside guy (Baldwin), but they still need a slot receiver.

Defensively, they just need to add depth. Their weakness defensively in 2010 was just a lack of depth. Offensively, they definitely need a couple new guys to play a large role in the receiving department.

I disagree about greatest positional need, but I don't value receivers that highly. The Chiefs will soon have an open chasm in the middle of their offensive line and the defensive line is suspect aside from Dorsey, who is playing out of position. Heyward or Carimi would have been my choice.

SenorGato
04-29-2011, 12:38 PM
I don't think the Falcons screwed themselves at all....Jones is basically the last piece of the puzzle to their 2012 offense, and with so many guys to take attention off of him he could thrive there.

Worst pick to me was Liuget to the Chargers. Unless I underrate the crap out of him, and it's possible, I'm not sure what makes him such a standout. I don't see the potential for him to play anywhere on the DL in a 3-4, though I guess if Dorsey did it then he could pull it off. I'm not sure wtf happened to the Chargers...they used to be such good drafters...but since '06 it's been downhill and no bueno.

bambam
04-29-2011, 12:57 PM
My take on the 1st round...

http://HubsSportsReport.blogspot.com

keylime_5
04-29-2011, 01:00 PM
Carolina became the big losers this year the moment Andrew Luck announced he was returning to Stanford. Otherwise they would have been THE big winners.

Splat
04-29-2011, 01:07 PM
I disagree about greatest positional need, but I don't value receivers that highly. The Chiefs will soon have an open chasm in the middle of their offensive line and the defensive line is suspect aside from Dorsey, who is playing out of position. Heyward or Carimi would have been my choice.

The Chiefs are set at OG with Lilja at RG and Asamoah ready to take over for Waters at LG when the time comes.

I believe they can find a C later in the draft it wasn't a first round kinda of need.

I would have been fine with Carimi since I'm not high on any RT on the Chiefs roster but there is no way they were taking a DE with so much money all ready wrapped up there.

descendency
04-29-2011, 01:13 PM
Carolina became the big losers this year the moment Andrew Luck announced he was returning to Stanford. Otherwise they would have been THE big winners.

If (and I know EVERYONE is predicting against it) Cam Newton develops, oh god did the Panthers win by Luck going back to school. Lots of people swear Cam is a good kid who just needs to mature and spend some time working in the NFL. Hopefully he gets some good mentors. He could be a weapon in the NFL unlike many others. He's could be Ben Roethlisberger with better speed and a better ball (and fewer rape accusations).

bam bam
04-29-2011, 01:23 PM
My take on the 1st round...

http://HubsSportsReport.blogspot.com

My take on your user name:

get your own, fruity

Babylon
04-29-2011, 01:27 PM
Most people seem to either love or hate the 49ers pick. It filled a huge need and I really don't think Aldon was as big of a reach as people think. Really surprising but I love it. The 49ers haven't had a good pass rusher in seemingly forever, maybe since Charles Haley. They had to get a OLB or CB here since Harbaugh obviously isn't a huge fan of Gabbert or Locker.

Wade Phillips said that the Texans were targeting Aldon Smith at #11. If Wade Phillips and Vic Fangio each like him it's good enough for me.

https://twitter.com/#!/evansilva/status/63996418540568577

I think the Aldon Smith pick is a little risky because the kid hasnt played that much, i cringe at the thought of another Aaron Maybin.

I wasnt surprised at them passing on the two big name QBs because Harbaugh is going to want to bring in a lower rated guy and believes he not the player will be the reason for success, just my take.

BigBanger
04-29-2011, 01:28 PM
I would also consider the Chargers losers. They passed on Cam Jordan for Corey Liuget. Jordan is in IMO, the cream of the crop for 34 DEs. Liuget... a 43 UT? I don't get it.


I think the Aldon Smith pick is a little risky because the kid hasnt played that much, i cringe at the thought of another Aaron Maybin.
Aldon Smith is a lot better player than Maybin. That's disrespectful to Smith. I just don't understand them taking a really good pass rushing DE that plays his best with his hand in the dirt, or line up over an OG. He'll be a very good pass rusher, but the scheme... it doesn't make much sense. Especially at #7.

Jughead10
04-29-2011, 01:39 PM
I think the Aldon Smith pick is a little risky because the kid hasnt played that much, i cringe at the thought of another Aaron Maybin.

I wasnt surprised at them passing on the two big name QBs because Harbaugh is going to want to bring in a lower rated guy and believes he not the player will be the reason for success, just my take.

Or Harbaugh is holding out for either the number 1 pick or being close enough to swing a deal for it next year to get Luck. Knowing that all the QBs in this draft despite being picked high, can't hold Andrew's jockstrap.

keylime_5
04-29-2011, 01:58 PM
If (and I know EVERYONE is predicting against it) Cam Newton develops, oh god did the Panthers win by Luck going back to school. Lots of people swear Cam is a good kid who just needs to mature and spend some time working in the NFL. Hopefully he gets some good mentors. He could be a weapon in the NFL unlike many others. He's could be Ben Roethlisberger with better speed and a better ball (and fewer rape accusations).

He could be another McNabb or Roethlisberger, yes.....but I think he has a long ways to go. Big Ben and McNabb were a lot more polished passers coming out of college than Newton. Newton I think will be similar to Vince Young as a player, which isn't bad at all, but not quite Big Ben or McNabb.

FrankGore
04-29-2011, 02:00 PM
I would also consider the Chargers losers. They passed on Cam Jordan for Corey Liuget. Jordan is in IMO, the cream of the crop for 34 DEs. Liuget... a 43 UT? I don't get it.



Aldon Smith is a lot better player than Maybin. That's disrespectful to Smith. I just don't understand them taking a really good pass rushing DE that plays his best with his hand in the dirt, or line up over an OG. He'll be a very good pass rusher, but the scheme... it doesn't make much sense. Especially at #7.

He will basically be doing just that. He'll be an OLB in name only. He can rush from the outside on passing downs and on the inside in nickel situations. When he maxes out that frame he will be even more versatile. We didn't draft him to drop in coverage, trust me.

The comparisons to Maybin don't make sense. Maybin was a teeny tiny speed rusher who didn't even have that much speed and his frame was so slender, the odds of him being able to add a lot of weight were not good. Smith easily has the room to add around 15 pounds, has a monster wingspan and violent hands to beat tackles inside more than just trying to run by them like Maybin. He's not that much like DeMarcus Ware because Ware was better at getting low and getting around the corner but there's a lot to work with in Smith.

Certainly a work in progress but when you talk about a potential double digit sack guy, SF has not had that in...I don't even want to think about it.

nepg
04-29-2011, 02:02 PM
I would also consider the Chargers losers. They passed on Cam Jordan for Corey Liuget. Jordan is in IMO, the cream of the crop for 34 DEs. Liuget... a 43 UT? I don't get it..

Liuget can develop into a 3-4 NT and should be a solid 3-4 DE until he moves inside.

Babylon
04-29-2011, 02:12 PM
Or Harbaugh is holding out for either the number 1 pick or being close enough to swing a deal for it next year to get Luck. Knowing that all the QBs in this draft despite being picked high, can't hold Andrew's jockstrap.

He might be or he could even take one today. As for the guys this year holding Luck's jockstrap let's see how it plays out. There are guys in this years class that are better athletes with better arms, not totally disagreeing but let's wait.

georgiafan
04-29-2011, 02:17 PM
For the people saying the falcons gave up to many picks which could be true bc I have been debating that all day myself. Here are a few things to think about. The Falcons had 9 draft picks this year and there is no room on the roster for 9 rookies. Still the falcons have 6 more draft picks (3,5,6,7,7,7) and free agency. Charles Johnson could be a FA and if he has went to high school and college in state. So he would make a lot of sense if he hits the open market.

DE is a need, but they are alot of bodies at DE with Abe, Bierman, Chauncy Davis and Lawrence Sidberry. So any 1st round DE would have been just part of the roation. Not to mention that all the elite DE's was off the board anyway. The defense doesnt have a ton of major holes you just need a few more pieces.

Jughead10
04-29-2011, 02:22 PM
He might be or he could even take one today. As for the guys this year holding Luck's jockstrap let's see how it plays out. There are guys in this years class that are better athletes with better arms, not totally disagreeing but let's wait.

Unless you are an athlete at the level of Michael Vick, which no one in this draft is, being an athlete has very little value when being an NFL QB.

T-RICH49
04-29-2011, 02:22 PM
A Raiders fan trashing the Chiefs draft? Interesting ;)

I disagree with your assessment of the KC pick. WR was up there with NT tied for our biggest need. We had absolutely no one opposite Bowe to throw to on the outside, and if anyone can get the most out of Baldwin, it's Haley.

Plus we traded back and picked up an extra third pick. It wasn't half as bad as you think.

THIS (10 char)

Chris
04-29-2011, 03:51 PM
If you guys don't understand why Denver took Miller, clearly you haven't been exposed to John Fox's defenses or how Allen designated coverage schemes in New Orleans. Miller is going to be on the field all the time for the Broncos. His selections almost necessitates that 3-3-5 (nickel) packages are being used often.

He was one of the best defenders, if not the best in the draft, and we got him. It is a fine selection. It is only questionable to those who lack football knowledge and can't think outside the box. Sorry, but it is true.

Chris
04-29-2011, 03:53 PM
Oh, and by the way -- the Broncos are going to be selecting a DT with one of these upcoming picks. Hell, we have trades on the table.

At any case, we were devoid of a pass rush all last season as well. Last in sacks, IIRC. So getting another pass rusher was important.

Get the best linebacker and rusher in the draft, and then get a good DT in round two. Any prospect there will be an upgrade over who we have.

Think, think, hard, hard.

BigBanger
04-30-2011, 02:57 AM
He will basically be doing just that. He'll be an OLB in name only. He can rush from the outside on passing downs and on the inside in nickel situations. When he maxes out that frame he will be even more versatile. We didn't draft him to drop in coverage, trust me.

The comparisons to Maybin don't make sense. Maybin was a teeny tiny speed rusher who didn't even have that much speed and his frame was so slender, the odds of him being able to add a lot of weight were not good. Smith easily has the room to add around 15 pounds, has a monster wingspan and violent hands to beat tackles inside more than just trying to run by them like Maybin. He's not that much like DeMarcus Ware because Ware was better at getting low and getting around the corner but there's a lot to work with in Smith.

Certainly a work in progress but when you talk about a potential double digit sack guy, SF has not had that in...I don't even want to think about it.
I understand that, but Smith is tall and stiff. Those are his weaknesses. Playing a DT role in passing downs are his most effective plays. He doesn't have the burst and explosiveness off the edge to be a dominant outside pass rusher. He's more effective working inside where he has a quickness advantage with guards. He also has the strength and power to kick inside. OLB or anything close to it? I would not have taken Smith there... like, at all. That's a project. You don't change guys' position and take them in the top 10. That's a recipe for disaster.

There is a difference between OLB and DE. People say, "Well look at DaMarcus Ware. He's never in coverage. He's a DE, but an OLB in name only." Well, that's almost true, but he is a stand up backer. That's what he is. Look at his counter part. Anthony Spencer. People were worried about him being a major bust. Then all of a sudden it clicked in and he started playing up to his talents. He became a better pass rusher once he understood his responsibilities. He's not a great pass rusher, but he's terrific against the run and he's turned into a really good 34 OLB.

Tamba Hali in KC. Went from a solid DE to a All-Pro caliber 34 OLB. Vernon Gholston? Hear me out here before you say WTF?! The Jets decided that he just wasn't reacting properly at OLB and started playing him at 34 DE. And he actually did play a little better at DE (I mean he made a play every once in a while which was truly shocking). I understand he's a giant ***** and doesn't have any desire to play football, but it does further my point that he seemed to show some kind instincts and explosiveness for the 34 DE position as to opposed to having no idea what he was doing at OLB.

LaMarr Woodley would not be a great 43 DE, but he is a great OLB. Same for James Harrison. Clay Matthews. Those guys are prototypical 34 OLBs. Aldon Smith is nothing like these guys. He's more like (I know this has been beaten to death, but...) a Justin Tuck type DE. And then the inverse of that would be Brian Orakpo. He had 1.5 sacks in the last 8 games last year. From what I saw (not a huge Skins follower), he looked tentative. Wasn't as explosive and didn't seem to trust his eyes. He would be tapping his feet and not moving. He looked like he didn't know what he was doing. Last year and at Texas, he was upfield, he was aggressive and decisive... instinctive. This past year he struggled in space a little and wasn't the same pass rusher. Didn't trust his eyes. It is a different position. It is linebacker. It's not defensive end.

And Maybin sucked. Smith and Maybin are polar opposites. I've never heard the comparison until that post. It's an atrocious comparison and has no business being made. Maybin was playing at about 225-230 pounds in college. He was also getting pancaked in college on a regular basis. He has no technique and doesn't work. He's a slug and a giant bust.

I like Aldon Smith. I wouldn't mind a 43 team drafting him in the top 10. I think he can turn into a really good player, but the guy is a DE all day long. He is not an OLB. He's just not. I like the player, I don't like the team picking him. I really hate the 49ers draft through 3 rounds.

1.07 - Aldon Smith, DE, Missouri
2.36 - Colin Kapernick, QB, Nevada
3.80 - Chris Culliver, DB, South Carolina


Kapernick? Passed on Gabbert for this? Really? I mean really? Are they serious? A project QB in round 2 that you traded up for?

Culliver looks like a gifted athlete, but I've never seen him play a snap of football in my life. Most were calling it a reach, but if he's talented and has enough upside, then I wouldn't hate the pick. I thought Jim Harbaugh would have had a better start than this.

elway=goat
04-30-2011, 04:49 AM
Oh, and by the way -- the Broncos are going to be selecting a DT with one of these upcoming picks. Hell, we have trades on the table.

At any case, we were devoid of a pass rush all last season as well. Last in sacks, IIRC. So getting another pass rusher was important.

Get the best linebacker and rusher in the draft, and then get a good DT in round two. Any prospect there will be an upgrade over who we have.

Think, think, hard, hard.

Thought now? I am not very happy with this draft overall. To me you build in the trenches. We have yet to address the defensive trenches..

Chris
04-30-2011, 06:20 AM
Every player the Broncos selected, perhaps outside Irving, starts from Day One.

Very pleased.

king2am
04-30-2011, 07:37 AM
Kapernick? Passed on Gabbert for this? Really? I mean really? Are they serious? A project QB in round 2 that you traded up for?


Because Gabbert isn't a developmental guy either. Neither is.... oh wait - every single one of these kids has flaws that need to be corrected.

Yeah, we traded up for it - cost us so much, we don't even have any picks left...

GoRavens
04-30-2011, 08:29 AM
Kaepernick's release is so odd and slow.. Not sure if he'll ever amount to anything in this league.
Scrambling, 'product of a system' type QBs don't usually make solid NFL starters.
That damn release is just awkward and I don't think he can make throws out of the shotgun on a consistent basis.
Good career back up, imo