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View Full Version : Marvin Austin: One of the Biggest Steals of the Draft?


Nebula
04-29-2011, 11:21 PM
I realize he got suspended, but it was just for borrowing money for an agent. Bad judgement but hes pretty clean off-the-field otherwise. He's a great player who I think shouldn't have fallen all the way to 52.

draftgod
04-29-2011, 11:26 PM
Effort isn't always there. Attitude has been suspect. There was more than the agent thing. Its all uo to marvin whether he wants to apply himself or not.

Iamcanadian
04-29-2011, 11:28 PM
I realize he got suspended, but it was just for borrowing money for an agent. Bad judgement but hes pretty clean off-the-field otherwise. He's a great player who I think shouldn't have fallen all the way to 52.

He got round 1 talent but teams did their homework on him and the character issues must run deeper than just his suspension. Boom or bust type with real potential but I'm guessing that there are serious concerns.

descendency
04-29-2011, 11:28 PM
He was described as a spineless finger pointer.

It's like if I sold you a Porsche and told you I had two of them. One had a bomb and the other didn't. I forgot which this one was. Would you buy it? (ok, not perfect - but you get the idea. You turn the key and BOOM)

Top 15 talent. Bottom 15 character. Buyer beware.

marks01234
04-29-2011, 11:30 PM
He was pretty inconsistenct at UNC and disappeared for long stretches. Not sure if it was conditioning.

Boom or Bust type pick really.

Giantsfan1080
04-29-2011, 11:41 PM
The Giants wouldn't take Austin unless they really did their homework on him. I'm not to worried about his off the field issues.

onejayhawk
04-30-2011, 12:03 AM
I think you have the wrong Texas city. Justin Houston is the biggest steal so far.

J

Mr. Goosemahn
04-30-2011, 12:09 AM
I don't think it's character issues teams were worried with (legal issues, bad judgement, etc.), it was his effort and the fact that he was consistently inconsistent.

Scott Wright
04-30-2011, 12:11 AM
Went right about where he should have in my opinion.

Underachiever & Workout Warrior.

JustDezIT
04-30-2011, 12:13 AM
Bruce Carter is the best player on that D. I think two years from now, when people look back at this draft, he'll be the biggest steal.

BuddyCHRIST
04-30-2011, 12:21 AM
Workout Warrior, he was pretty average on the field.

Nebula
04-30-2011, 12:22 AM
Went right about where he should have in my opinion.

Underachiever & Workout Warrior.

Why do you think he's an underachiever? Maybe he can improve his technique a little. I respect your opinion a lot ofc so I'm asking you

Nebula
04-30-2011, 12:24 AM
Workout Warrior, he was pretty average on the field.

Just playing devil's advocate here brother..

Why would he be considered a highly drafted potential top 15 pick for like 2 years now if he was an average player on the field and it's not like his workout numbers are so exposed like Bruce Carter's.

JustDezIT
04-30-2011, 12:44 AM
Just playing devil's advocate here brother..

Why would he be considered a highly drafted potential top 15 pick for like 2 years now if he was an average player on the field and it's not like his workout numbers are so exposed like Bruce Carter's.

Don't think he was considered a top 15 pick... Bruce Carter was.

BuddyCHRIST
04-30-2011, 12:49 AM
Just playing devil's advocate here brother..

Why would he be considered a highly drafted potential top 15 pick for like 2 years now if he was an average player on the field and it's not like his workout numbers are so exposed like Bruce Carter's.

Because he was super hyped out of HS and has great physical ability. People will just assume your a good player.

Mr. Goosemahn
04-30-2011, 12:55 AM
Just playing devil's advocate here brother..

Why would he be considered a highly drafted potential top 15 pick for like 2 years now if he was an average player on the field and it's not like his workout numbers are so exposed like Bruce Carter's.

Yeah, he's living off his high school potential and his raw athleticism. He was never truly dominant in college and on top of that he hasn't played football in a year.

His workout numbers will indicate that he should be a dominant player, but that just doesn't appear on film. He was considered a top 15 pick for the same reasons people are still high on him right now: high school fame / recognition, and raw athletic ability.

He's one of the more likely players to earn a paycheck and take a back seat, which is why teams were hesitant to draft him early on.

Marvin Austin still is basically all potential, not a lot of consistent quality play available. He can absolutely dominate when he wants to, like in post-season workouts and games, but that effort and willingness to succeed was absent for the large majority of his college career.

TACKLE
04-30-2011, 01:55 AM
It's a steal if he can overcome the fact that he's a bad football player.

Rosebud
04-30-2011, 02:12 AM
It's a steal if he can overcome the fact that he's a bad football player.

Yeah, but if he can pull that off he'll be a monster.

BigBanger
04-30-2011, 03:06 AM
He sucks. So, no. Secondly, living at the playboy mansion may cause him to miss some practices, and knowing him like I do, probably some games.

Rosebud
04-30-2011, 04:11 AM
He sucks. So, no. Secondly, living at the playboy mansion may cause him to miss some practices, and knowing him like I do, probably some games.

Hey, I don't like the pick with Paea right there either, but if he can overcome not being any good at football or caring much and get his head out of his ass, he could be a really good 3rd DT for us...

Monomach
04-30-2011, 04:17 AM
Still scratching my head over him being picked before Paea. Paea had much better tape and a perfect character.

Rosebud
04-30-2011, 04:19 AM
Still scratching my head over him being picked before Paea. Paea had much better tape and a perfect character.

I can only assume his short arms bothered the team. We do like our dlineman nice and orangutan-armed.

SchizophrenicBatman
04-30-2011, 07:50 AM
I'm not convinced he goes much, if any, higher had he played last year

He was always underwhelming on the field. Improved his last season (that he actually played) but not by a whole lot. 52nd is pretty fair for him imo

Scott Wright
04-30-2011, 07:51 AM
Why do you think he's an underachiever? Maybe he can improve his technique a little. I respect your opinion a lot ofc so I'm asking you

Didn't consistently play up to talent level in college and wasn't very productive.

regoob2
04-30-2011, 07:52 AM
He could very well be a reach there. I know it's cliche but only time will tell. He was being talked about to Chicago in the 1st which I would not have been happy with.

RealityCheck
04-30-2011, 10:03 AM
He pretty much went where he was supposed to. The whole Chicago at #29 talk was just proved as BS.

thenewfeature06
04-30-2011, 10:08 AM
He is going to play 4-3 DT. I think he can dominate at that spot especially with a team like the Giants... we will see if he is motivated.

SenorGato
04-30-2011, 01:09 PM
Kenrick Ellis is better. Man I cannot wait to see what Rex does with this. Ellis is giing to trial before jury for assaulting a guy who came at him with a bat. He man is a monster.

Rosebud
04-30-2011, 01:33 PM
Kenrick Ellis is better. Man I cannot wait to see what Rex does with this. Ellis is giing to trial before jury for assaulting a guy who came at him with a bat. He man is a monster.

To be fair I've got a buddy who beat the **** out of a guy who hit him upside the head with a tire iron and he's certainly not a good enough football player to play in the NFL.

bigbluedefense
04-30-2011, 01:48 PM
I'm a little nervous about this one. I would have taken Paea, but I also trust our front office. I did say at the time we were picking (to ppl around me) that I wouldn't mind if Austin was the choice. So I'm not too upset by it.

So I'm 50/50 on this one. Big gamble. I guess only time will tell if it pays off.

cajuncorey
04-30-2011, 01:53 PM
austin is the steal of the draft. perhaps a notch below fairley but thats still pretty good value in the 2nd

FUNBUNCHER
04-30-2011, 03:32 PM
Nothing to do with motivation IMO. Austin isn't a very good DT. He hasn't improved as a football player since his freshman year, I'm talking about his technique, ability to get off blocks, play recognition.

I think he's a backup in the NFL. Out of all the studs on that UNC D front, Austin was dead last in terms of impact. Super athlete for a 300+# man, but what does that do for you in the NFL??

Based on his previous seasons and missing last year, Austin IMO should have been a 4th/5th rounder.

onejayhawk
04-30-2011, 04:05 PM
Nothing to do with motivation IMO. Austin isn't a very good DT. He hasn't improved as a football player since his freshman year, I'm talking about his technique, ability to get off blocks, play recognition.

I think he's a backup in the NFL. Out of all the studs on that UNC D front, Austin was dead last in terms of impact. Super athlete for a 300+# man, but what does that do for you in the NFL??

Based on his previous seasons and missing last year, Austin IMO should have been a 4th/5th rounder.

This is just wrong. He has far too many tools to be a backup based on talent. I would put him the #3 NT, and #2 might bea better 5 tech. Austin may not want any better, which is another issue, but the assets are there.

I still think Houston is a bigger steal, but Austin is up there.

J

FUNBUNCHER
04-30-2011, 04:12 PM
Just my opinion watching a ton of ACC ball in Virginia and expecting Austin to be a stud.

He's a bum who won't really execute his assignment, be neutralized by double teams, and play with something less than I would call 'intensity'.

THe kid isn't a 5 - 10 year starter. Eventually he'll be benched for poor play. Watch and see.

Monomach
04-30-2011, 05:49 PM
austin is the steal of the draft. perhaps a notch below fairley but thats still pretty good value in the 2nd

Would be very interested in your definition of a "notch," because I'd classify him as a couple dozen notches worse. I had 11 DTs ahead of him on my board.



I'm really torn. He looks bad on tape, Paea looks good, he's got issues, Paea is squeaky clean, he has a bad motor, Paea's is nonstop. The guy hasn't done jack but be hyped out of high school and tear up underwear drills.

...but the Giants don't draft many busts. I'd say they're probably the best drafting team in the NFC.

I'm just so damned confused here.

prock
04-30-2011, 05:59 PM
Biggest steal? He sucks. Quite the reach.

BaLLiN
04-30-2011, 06:22 PM
I agree, Im confused because we're usually not enamored with physical attributes and workouts, but merely use them as a tool to slightly adjust our board i feel.

The giants took a chance without a doubt, Marvin Austin isn't the player he should be considering his amazing physical attributes. But I don't think he'll be taking on too many double teams on the giants 4-3 front bc he is a UT and not a NT. His job will be penetrating a disrupting the line, not to hold up blockers for LB's to go and make plays.

Another thing is, if Coughlin and Reese think he is at all a problem, we wouldn't have drafted him. Mario Manningham and Ahmad Bradshaw are the only two players those two have taken chances on 'character concerns' and look what happened.

Work ethic is definitely a problem i'd have with him, but he will have a great opportunity to start very early with how thin our DT position is (Cofield apparently requested a trade and is a FA now). I dont understand how he could possibly be unaffected by a player's coach like Perry Fewell, a DL like ours, and our history of producing great DL players. If it can work out anywhere, here has to be one of the few places possible.

scottyboy
05-01-2011, 10:33 AM
ha. the opinions are so torn on him. they're either huge steal or huge reach. the definition of a boom or bust player. let's face it, if Austin isn't going to cut it next to Tuck and Osi and coached by Coughlin, then he wasn't going to make it anywhere. He landed in the ideal position for me. He's a quick pass rushing DT and will see plenty of 1 v 1 opportunities with the plethora of pass rushers the Giants have. I like the Giants taking a risk on a guy with big potential. we'll see, time will tell.

Malaka
05-01-2011, 10:45 AM
If Linval Joseph pans out too, man, the Giants are going to have a monstrous D-line.

Now they just need some decent linebackers.

Rabscuttle
05-01-2011, 11:19 AM
This is the Tarheel that benefitted from his suspension in terms of draft position. Another year of tape showing him being a near non-factorbeing outperformed by his teammates would have been devastating for his draft stock. His lazy, underachieving performances are farther from peoples' minds. A couple of recent workouts and one of the other prospect games is what is freshest with everybody.

Now, if the suspension and reduced status serve to motivate him to use the potential he showed as a recruit out of high school then the Giants may be on to something. If he continued on his pre-suspension path, he will be a wasted pick.

NY+Giants=NYG
05-01-2011, 11:34 AM
We went through this with Mario Manningham when he dropped. Same with Bradshaw who was picked in the 7th round, but had a mid round grade to him. Reese and Coughlin did their HW and talked to these guys.

Rosebud
05-01-2011, 11:37 AM
Just my opinion watching a ton of ACC ball in Virginia and expecting Austin to be a stud.

He's a bum who won't really execute his assignment, be neutralized by double teams, and play with something less than I would call 'intensity'.

THe kid isn't a 5 - 10 year starter. Eventually he'll be benched for poor play. Watch and see.

Good thing we don't expect him to ever start then, huh. That said I don't expect much from this pick either, he's giving me William Joseph vibes.

brasho
05-01-2011, 11:38 AM
Austin's measurables remind me a lot of former Maryland Terp and Buccaneer 4th rounder, Dre Moore. The big difference I see in these two guys is that Moore was actually fairly productive in school... Austin wasn't. He wasn't even very good.

brasho
05-01-2011, 11:40 AM
Nothing to do with motivation IMO. Austin isn't a very good DT. He hasn't improved as a football player since his freshman year, I'm talking about his technique, ability to get off blocks, play recognition.

I think he's a backup in the NFL. Out of all the studs on that UNC D front, Austin was dead last in terms of impact. Super athlete for a 300+# man, but what does that do for you in the NFL??

Based on his previous seasons and missing last year, Austin IMO should have been a 4th/5th rounder.

How about his motor, toughness, and heart? All UDFA-like to me.

scottyboy
05-01-2011, 11:46 AM
people are just assuming the kid wasn't humbled by not playing this year and maybe grew up. Who's to say that this experience won't make him play harder and have a better motor?
Like I said, there seems to be no in between on this kid. plenty of fans, and plenty of haters. Like I said, he's in the best possible situation for him. We'll see what happens.

NY+Giants=NYG
05-01-2011, 11:50 AM
We have a good DL coach, and he doesn't start right way so no pressure on him. With a leader like Tuck on the line, I am sure this kid will be fine. Reese and Coughlin aren't going to bring a guy that isn't motivated. We worked with Mario Manningham and Bradshaw when we drafted them too.

FUNBUNCHER
05-01-2011, 12:09 PM
Just a theory, but I think the Giants braintrust figured that Austin had a similar profile to JPP, didn't play in a ton of games but turned out to be a player who's best football is in front of him with intriguing measurables.

The difference is, IMO that JPP if the few games he did play for USF showed nothing but a huge pro upside. Beyond his athletic gifts, JPP always played with great intensity and pursuit.

That's not Marvin Austin.

His biggest problem I still feel is that Austin is a better athlete than football player, and really doesn't have that innate feel for playing the position. Maybe better coaching makes him more efficient, I dunno.

Giants don't need him to be an all-pro anyway. If he's a rotational guy who plays with effort when he's on the field and applies as best he can what he's being taught during the week, I guess there's a role for him in NY.

I absolutely agree with Rabscuttle that if Austin had played last year for the Heels, he would not have been selected by the Giants. A guy that big, strong and fast should not have been such a non-factor in 3 years for UNC.

NY+Giants=NYG
05-01-2011, 12:16 PM
Just a theory, but I think the Giants braintrust figured that Austin had a similar profile to JPP, didn't play in a ton of games but turned out to be a player who's best football is in front of him with intriguing measurables.

The difference is, IMO that JPP if the few games he did play for USF showed nothing but a huge pro upside. Beyond his athletic gifts, JPP always played with great intensity and pursuit.

That's not Marvin Austin.

His biggest problem I still feel is that Austin is a better athlete than football player, and really doesn't have that innate feel for playing the position. Maybe better coaching makes him more efficient, I dunno.

Giants don't need him to be an all-pro anyway. If he's a rotational guy who plays with effort when he's on the field and applies as best he can what he's being taught during the week, I guess there's a role for him in NY.

I absolutely agree with Rabscuttle that if Austin had played last year for the Heels, he would not have been selected by the Giants. A guy that big, strong and fast should not have been such a non-factor in 3 years for UNC.


Perhaps, but Reese is on giants.com and watching the various pressers now and he is explaining each pick. We did a lot of HW on Austin. We talked to Davis just like we did with Hakeem Nicks, and we did our due diligence. We have leaders on the line who can help and mold Austin. We felt he had top 15 ability but off the field stuff knocked him down. Mind you, we went through this with Mario Manningham and Bradshaw, which is why we dropped to the 7th round.

We have a really good DL coach, and a good DL in general. So we feel like we can mold him. Just read all the other media outlets talking about Austin. They are on par with what Reese, Ross, and Coughlin thought. Great value as well. We didn't reach, we stood still, and got excellent value. Austin doesn't have to come in right way. Linval Joseph was our second rounder last year too. So Austin can come in and take his time.

But our staff, as Reese said, did their HW on him, and he has great value when we picked, and has top 15 talent, which all our front office guys thought. So we picked him, and will develop him now along with L. Joseph, and JPP.

Rosebud
05-01-2011, 12:51 PM
Just a theory, but I think the Giants braintrust figured that Austin had a similar profile to JPP, didn't play in a ton of games but turned out to be a player who's best football is in front of him with intriguing measurables.

The difference is, IMO that JPP if the few games he did play for USF showed nothing but a huge pro upside. Beyond his athletic gifts, JPP always played with great intensity and pursuit.

That's not Marvin Austin.

His biggest problem I still feel is that Austin is a better athlete than football player, and really doesn't have that innate feel for playing the position. Maybe better coaching makes him more efficient, I dunno.

Giants don't need him to be an all-pro anyway. If he's a rotational guy who plays with effort when he's on the field and applies as best he can what he's being taught during the week, I guess there's a role for him in NY.

I absolutely agree with Rabscuttle that if Austin had played last year for the Heels, he would not have been selected by the Giants. A guy that big, strong and fast should not have been such a non-factor in 3 years for UNC.

I doubt that since work ethic and his dedication to football where what made JPP a first round pick. Everyone raved about how hard the kid worked and on the field he brought it on ever down which lead to his steady growth as a player. If Austin had JPP's work ethic and Character he would've been picked before Fairley. The giants braintrust have proven themselves good enough at their jobs that it's slightly offensive to think they thought Austin compared to JPP just because he missed his last year and so didn't have too much film exposing his play.

My take is that they simply got the feeling that the kid had matured or was ready to prove people wrong about him. As a backup to Canty and Joseph with this staff and roster he could be able to develop into a good backup who can keep those guys fresh without getting pushed around, plus with his physical tools if he does develop a greater sense for the game he could give us one of the beastliest trios of Tackles in the league as Canty's an excellent DT and Linval Joseph has done nothing but impress the few times we saw him on the field or read about him in practice.

cajuncorey
05-01-2011, 02:52 PM
Would be very interested in your definition of a "notch," because I'd classify him as a couple dozen notches worse. I had 11 DTs ahead of him on my board.



I'm really torn. He looks bad on tape, Paea looks good, he's got issues, Paea is squeaky clean, he has a bad motor, Paea's is nonstop. The guy hasn't done jack but be hyped out of high school and tear up underwear drills.

...but the Giants don't draft many busts. I'd say they're probably the best drafting team in the NFC.

I'm just so damned confused here.

common man. showed in both the east-west shine bowl and the combine that he has matured. that was the big thing we all know that hes big strong and explosive. we just needed him to answer to the character concerns. if mike mayock and scott have noticed that then you should too.

Monomach
05-01-2011, 02:54 PM
people are just assuming the kid wasn't humbled by not playing this year and maybe grew up. Who's to say that this experience won't make him play harder and have a better motor?
Like I said, there seems to be no in between on this kid. plenty of fans, and plenty of haters. Like I said, he's in the best possible situation for him. We'll see what happens.

Still...the elephant in the room is that the guy taken one pick later is worlds better in every way other than putting on speedos and running.

I can't come up with any defense for the Giants here, and I usually am one to defend their shadier picks.

scottyboy
05-01-2011, 03:10 PM
Still...the elephant in the room is that the guy taken one pick later is worlds better in every way other than putting on speedos and running.

I can't come up with any defense for the Giants here, and I usually am one to defend their shadier picks.

well I could be wrong but doesn't Paea have some injury issues in the past? Also, I think his short arms and lack of potential had something to do with it. Also, we don't need more mediocre pass rushing DT's, we've had quite our fair share in the past, and I think we believe Austin's got the potential to be a nasty pass rushing DT with his quickness and athleticism.

BaLLiN
05-01-2011, 03:40 PM
at UNC Austin played a heck of a lot over the center, i don't think they used him correctly. If his best attribute is his burst, then why use him to hold up blockers? With a guy like Linval Joseph who will be that type of player, i think it will free up Austin to use his skill to penetrate in a 1 on 1 against the guard.

FUNBUNCHER
05-02-2011, 03:27 AM
at UNC Austin played a heck of a lot over the center, i don't think they used him correctly. If his best attribute is his burst, then why use him to hold up blockers? With a guy like Linval Joseph who will be that type of player, i think it will free up Austin to use his skill to penetrate in a 1 on 1 against the guard.
Austin didn't play exclusively over center and wasn't nearly double-teamed as much as a player with his talents normally would be in college.

Here's the problem, if you can find ONE game in 3 years where Austin dominated, I'd like to see it.

Dareus and Austin physically are virtually the same player, but in pads.....not even close.

Saying Austin 'looked good' in the East West Shrine game doesn't erase 3 years of below subpar play.

Either the Giants turn Austin into a guy who's a rotational disruptive force, or he's one of NY's biggest draft disappointments in recent years.

scottyboy
05-02-2011, 07:51 AM
see here's the fun thing: who's to say if Austin played last season, he wouldn't have put up super numbers and raised his stock. You know, kinda like what that Nick Fairley dude did. You know, being subpar until the final year before he went to the draft. I'm pretty sure everyone, including the Giants, know they're taking a risk on his raw physical talent, ability and quickness because we desperately lack a pass rushing DT and hope we can mold Austin into that.

FUNBUNCHER
05-02-2011, 01:49 PM
As a SKins fan, I have an innate bias towards the Giants(!!), however if I take a step back, purely as a football fan, I'd be surprised if the Giants don't get some kind of production out of a healthy Marvin Austin.

If the expectation is that he's going to be an all-pro, IMO that's unrealistic. But if the signing was to bring onboard a depth Dline player with elite physical talent and maximize his performance by rotating him, that probably works.

If you put Austin in one-on-one situations and keep him fresh, more often than not he's going to find his way into the backfield.

With the pressure NY can bring from the edges, Austin won't ever have to do all the heavy lifting and should benefit from the opportunities that Tuck/Osi/JPP tee up for him.

Still think he was picked too high, but part of me thinks he could still put up some impressive TFL stats and sacks/pressures in limited duty.

It's not really fair to say Austin hasn't matured some from his sophomore year.
What impressed me about this predraft process for Austin is that he clearly busted his ass staying in shape and working in the weight room when he was suspended for the 2010 season.

You don't roll out of bed at 6'2, 309#, running a 4.8 flat and BPing 38 reps at the combine.

Rockhead Albert Haynesworth was used in limited duty for the Skins last year, someone who obviously quit on the team for the most part, but he still led all Skins interior Dlineman in sacks.

prock
05-02-2011, 02:15 PM
see here's the fun thing: who's to say if Austin played last season, he wouldn't have put up super numbers and raised his stock. You know, kinda like what that Nick Fairley dude did. You know, being subpar until the final year before he went to the draft. I'm pretty sure everyone, including the Giants, know they're taking a risk on his raw physical talent, ability and quickness because we desperately lack a pass rushing DT and hope we can mold Austin into that.

You can say that, and I can say that who is to say he wouldn't have had 2 sacks all year long and murdered his draft stock. My statement has a better chance of happening, since the best indicator of future performance is past performance in similar situations. The dude has not shown he can be a good football player, which not only makes him NOT the biggest steal, but quite the reach.

scottyboy
05-02-2011, 03:05 PM
While I agree with what you guys are saying (except really the "reach" part. at that point with his immense measureables and physical talents, the gamble is worth it), I again will say he's thrown in a perfect situation and plays a position that really, like RB, is one that needs good depth and guess for certain situations. Austin is a guy who has ridiculous upside as a pass rushing DT, especially with the likes of Osi, Tuck and JPP surrounding him. That's what the Giants need, as we've had an awful lack of pass rush up the gut from out DT's since Keith Hamilton. Now I'm not in the crowd saying he's a big steal, but I'm not calling him a reach by any standards. He was picked because of his physical skillset and the certain need of the Giants.

I agree with you funbuncher in his benefitting from our pass rushers, and I think that's why the Giants took him. He was NOT lasting to our 3rd round pick, and I feel the organization knows realistically, the Giants is the best spot for Austin to maximize his potential.

And prock, while you're right, I highly disagree on saying him having 2 sacks and plummetting his stock would have had a better chance of happening.

Saints-Tigers
05-02-2011, 03:10 PM
You can say that, and I can say that who is to say he wouldn't have had 2 sacks all year long and murdered his draft stock. My statement has a better chance of happening, since the best indicator of future performance is past performance in similar situations. The dude has not shown he can be a good football player, which not only makes him NOT the biggest steal, but quite the reach.

He has shown he can be a good football player, albeit not consistently. Look at his post season play, that's what we have for this season, and if he carries that over, he's going to be a huge steal.

HakeemtheMachine
05-02-2011, 09:46 PM
Austin didn't play exclusively over center and wasn't nearly double-teamed as much as a player with his talents normally would be in college.

Here's the problem, if you can find ONE game in 3 years where Austin dominated, I'd like to see it.

Dareus and Austin physically are virtually the same player, but in pads.....not even close.

Saying Austin 'looked good' in the East West Shrine game doesn't erase 3 years of below subpar play.

Either the Giants turn Austin into a guy who's a rotational disruptive force, or he's one of NY's biggest draft disappointments in recent years.
42% of the time I read in ESPN the magazine

prock
05-02-2011, 09:54 PM
While I agree with what you guys are saying (except really the "reach" part. at that point with his immense measureables and physical talents, the gamble is worth it), I again will say he's thrown in a perfect situation and plays a position that really, like RB, is one that needs good depth and guess for certain situations. Austin is a guy who has ridiculous upside as a pass rushing DT, especially with the likes of Osi, Tuck and JPP surrounding him. That's what the Giants need, as we've had an awful lack of pass rush up the gut from out DT's since Keith Hamilton. Now I'm not in the crowd saying he's a big steal, but I'm not calling him a reach by any standards. He was picked because of his physical skillset and the certain need of the Giants.

I agree with you funbuncher in his benefitting from our pass rushers, and I think that's why the Giants took him. He was NOT lasting to our 3rd round pick, and I feel the organization knows realistically, the Giants is the best spot for Austin to maximize his potential.

And prock, while you're right, I highly disagree on saying him having 2 sacks and plummetting his stock would have had a better chance of happening.

Just commenting on the bold, just because they have awesome talent doesn't make them a second round talent. Bruce Campbell would have been a reach in the second, as would have many other physical freaks. Being a freak doesn't make you a second rounder, being a football player does.

fenikz
05-02-2011, 09:57 PM
Terrible football player who is living off of his highschool hype & workout numbers, I don't feel he is a steal at all but it's where I expected him to go

Nebula
05-05-2011, 10:02 PM
see here's the fun thing: who's to say if Austin played last season, he wouldn't have put up super numbers and raised his stock. You know, kinda like what that Nick Fairley dude did. You know, being subpar until the final year before he went to the draft. I'm pretty sure everyone, including the Giants, know they're taking a risk on his raw physical talent, ability and quickness because we desperately lack a pass rushing DT and hope we can mold Austin into that.

You may be on to something here. Who knows, maybe the kid puts together an awesome senior season and improves his motor/technique from a year ago. Though I have no idea but he could be a steal in that respect

scottyboy
05-05-2011, 10:42 PM
You may be on to something here. Who knows, maybe the kid puts together an awesome senior season and improves his motor/technique from a year ago. Though I have no idea but he could be a steal in that respect

Exactly. I'm not saying he is a steal. I just feel that he has some really high upside, and I'll say this now, have said it before, and will say it again: the Giants are one of, if not THE, ideal spot for Austin and his potential to be maximized

indyfan1985
05-08-2011, 12:38 PM
Kenrick Ellis is better. Man I cannot wait to see what Rex does with this. Ellis is giing to trial before jury for assaulting a guy who came at him with a bat. He man is a monster.

I know Im a little biased but I think DT Drake Nevis will be one of the better DTs in this class. He goes to a system that perfectly fits what he does. And his numbers were right up there close with Nick Fairley.

Roddoliver
05-08-2011, 01:23 PM
Marvin Austin was not a steal. He was not that productive, is still raw in terms of technique and awareness. He's just an athletic freak at this point, but the Giants will have to build him up. I think people saw him run the 40-yard dash and went like "oh this kid is a beast".

BaLLiN
05-08-2011, 05:13 PM
As a SKins fan, I have an innate bias towards the Giants(!!), however if I take a step back, purely as a football fan, I'd be surprised if the Giants don't get some kind of production out of a healthy Marvin Austin.

If the expectation is that he's going to be an all-pro, IMO that's unrealistic. But if the signing was to bring onboard a depth Dline player with elite physical talent and maximize his performance by rotating him, that probably works.

If you put Austin in one-on-one situations and keep him fresh, more often than not he's going to find his way into the backfield.

With the pressure NY can bring from the edges, Austin won't ever have to do all the heavy lifting and should benefit from the opportunities that Tuck/Osi/JPP tee up for him.

Still think he was picked too high, but part of me thinks he could still put up some impressive TFL stats and sacks/pressures in limited duty.

It's not really fair to say Austin hasn't matured some from his sophomore year.
What impressed me about this predraft process for Austin is that he clearly busted his ass staying in shape and working in the weight room when he was suspended for the 2010 season.

You don't roll out of bed at 6'2, 309#, running a 4.8 flat and BPing 38 reps at the combine.


A lot of what is being said about Austin was being said about JPP as far as underwhelming stats for being such a physical freak. They were both unproven as prospects, but clearly Austin is being treated as a bigger question mark.

Funbuncher is right, and i tried saying this before but clearly no one reads. Austin was being used as a NT much more often than a UT. This means that he was lined up between the C and Guard and forced to take on blockers essentially in a 2 on 1 (he was the one).

If we use him as a UT, which his workout numbers and best abilities translate to, then he should have a much easier time performing up to his potential.

"you put Austin in one-on-one situations and keep him fresh, more often than not he's going to find his way into the backfield." - Funbuncher

thats exactly how i feel, and thats all we need from him. His job is to win a few times out of the many opportunities he will get a 1 on 1, and those won opportunities could be game changing plays.

"Still think he was picked too high, but part of me thinks he could still put up some impressive TFL stats and sacks/pressures in limited duty." - Funbuncher

I dont agree with this. We need a player at UT, and a specimen of his magnitude is worth this pick with the coaching we have and the realization that he will be playing a better position for his abilities as well as the fact that he'll be seeing 1 on 1 matchups. We believe his impact is worth more than our 2nd round pick, and i can agree with that wholeheartedly.

Rosebud
05-08-2011, 06:41 PM
JPP also had phenomenal work ethic, showed steady progress on the field and has never had any question marks about where his focus was as a prospect. Austin's work ethic is the biggest part of his production question mark.

BaLLiN
05-08-2011, 09:33 PM
JPP also had phenomenal work ethic, showed steady progress on the field and has never had any question marks about where his focus was as a prospect. Austin's work ethic is the biggest part of his production question mark.

What impressed me about this predraft process for Austin is that he clearly busted his ass staying in shape and working in the weight room when he was suspended for the 2010 season.

It's not really fair to say Austin hasn't matured some from his sophomore year.
What impressed me about this predraft process for Austin is that he clearly busted his ass staying in shape and working in the weight room when he was suspended for the 2010 season.

You don't roll out of bed at 6'2, 309#, running a 4.8 flat and BPing 38 reps at the combine.

didnt think i had to restate this.

Rosebud
05-08-2011, 10:29 PM
didnt think i had to restate this.

And yet we never saw that translate onto the field, as Austin's game was stagnant throughout his UNC tenure, the way we had with JPP, and so he's a much bigger risk evidenced by JPP going a whole round sooner. You might believe in Austin's work ethic but we don't have near the evidence to support it that we had for JPP.

bucfan12
05-09-2011, 08:21 AM
Yeah he could be one of the steals of the draft. I mean, he's going to a New York Giants defensive line that is one of the best. JPP, Tuck and Kiwanuka on the outside. Canty and Coefield at DT. He'll make an impact. 1st round talent at 52? I think he and Dqwan Bowers might have something to say about where they were drafted.

JBCX
05-12-2011, 09:39 AM
I love how people talk about JPP already as if he's clearly quelled all questions about his ability to be a starter in the NFL.

Yes, the kid did accumulate a handful of easy sacks playing on possibly the most talented defensive line in the NFL as a rotational player brought in on alot of loops and stunts. Let's see how he does as a starting DE against both the run and the pass for a full season before we can proclaim JPP as having "silenced the doubters".

Rosebud
05-12-2011, 10:56 AM
I love how people talk about JPP already as if he's clearly quelled all questions about his ability to be a starter in the NFL.

Yes, the kid did accumulate a handful of easy sacks playing on possibly the most talented defensive line in the NFL as a rotational player brought in on alot of loops and stunts. Let's see how he does as a starting DE against both the run and the pass for a full season before we can proclaim JPP as having "silenced the doubters".

JPP didn't get stunted much at all. I wish Fewell got creative with the DL like that, as is the most creative thing Fewell did was stick JPP at UT. Sure JPP still has plenty to learn but he had a great rookie season, not just statistically, but his performance was actually impressive he didn't just rack up unblocked sacks, kid made plays against good lineman and that's because of his crazy body control, athleticism, strength and orangutan arms, not because he was playing next to a banged up Justin Tuck and Osi.

JBCX
05-12-2011, 05:22 PM
I watched nearly every snap of JPP's rookie season and lots of times he was lined up as a linebacker and picked up a pressure or a sack on a "blitz" or he would loop in on a stunt as a 3rd down DE. Fewell put him all over the field, and more frequently in obvious passing situations such as 3rd and long.

All I'm saying is that he needs to show me he can produce vs. both the run and the pass as a first and second and third down DE for at least a year before we can claim he is assuredly not a bust. He can still easily bust if he is not capable of handling a starting DE role for at least a season. Let's not get crazy here now with a small sampling of production over the course of a few games as a rotational player.

Rosebud
05-13-2011, 03:09 AM
I watched nearly every snap of JPP's rookie season and lots of times he was lined up as a linebacker and picked up a pressure or a sack on a "blitz" or he would loop in on a stunt as a 3rd down DE. Fewell put him all over the field, and more frequently in obvious passing situations such as 3rd and long.

All I'm saying is that he needs to show me he can produce vs. both the run and the pass as a first and second and third down DE for at least a year before we can claim he is assuredly not a bust. He can still easily bust if he is not capable of handling a starting DE role for at least a season. Let's not get crazy here now with a small sampling of production over the course of a few games as a rotational player.

*shrug* JPP didn't play LB and while he did play mostly as a third down rusher Fewell was not very creative with him. JPP just lined up and beat tackles one on one, for a rookie that's all I really expect, add that he made a number of plays that most DEs just are unable to make and I feel confident saying JPP won't bust. Dude has phenomenal work ethic and upside, he may be part tard, but he was fantastic for a rookie and if you disagree I'm going to assume you were one of the people criticizing Mario for not putting up many sacks the first half of his rookie year as JPP was great for what was asked of him, he needs to keep progressing but there's absolutely zero evidence so suggest he won't.

JBCX
05-13-2011, 09:32 AM
All I'm saying is that he could still be a bust. He could also further develop into a great player, but he also might not. We can't say anything definitive about him after his rookie season - we have to wait at least until the conclusion of the 2011 season before we start making claims about JPP, imho.

NY+Giants=NYG
05-13-2011, 10:02 AM
All I'm saying is that he could still be a bust. He could also further develop into a great player, but he also might not. We can't say anything definitive about him after his rookie season - we have to wait at least until the conclusion of the 2011 season before we start making claims about JPP, imho.

That's fair about JPP. However, he did flash and progress last year, especially since people didn't think he would even play. Everyone expected him to sit and learn, but he learned everything quickly, and got to see the field. Now hopefully with another season under him, I expect him to take another step.

Rosebud
05-13-2011, 05:55 PM
All I'm saying is that he could still be a bust. He could also further develop into a great player, but he also might not. We can't say anything definitive about him after his rookie season - we have to wait at least until the conclusion of the 2011 season before we start making claims about JPP, imho.

Shrug if he never improves he's a good player. I mean sure he could bust, but the cops could find 34 kidnapped hookers in Peyton Manning's basement tomorrow. JPP right now is a good player, period, not going to develop into a good player, but he is at the very least a solid player who sporadically makes some outstanding plays. He might not become a great player, but he's already a guy who could start for a number of teams.

JBCX
05-13-2011, 06:51 PM
Let's be blunt here - I was never high at all on JPP prior to the 2010 draft, and I am still not sold on him. His combine numbers were terrible and there has never been an elite pass rusher in the NFL without excellent numbers in either the Vertical Jump/Broad Jump categories and/or the Short Shuttle/3-Cone, which JPP was abysmal in all.

So either his combine performance was a fluke and he is actually capable of doing better in those drills, or he will be a marginal player just like all of the other DE/OLB prospects of the past with terrible combine numbers. That's my opinion. I don't think he'll ever be a full-time three-down DE in the NFL. If I'm proven wrong, I will eat crow, but it will be truly remarkable because JPP will be bucking historical trends that have held true for the past 20+ years for pass rushers.

I am eagerly awaiting to see what he does in 2011 if Fewell gives him more snaps. I predict he will be mostly a non-factor, but that's my opinion.

Rosebud
05-13-2011, 11:44 PM
Let's be blunt here - I was never high at all on JPP prior to the 2010 draft, and I am still not sold on him. His combine numbers were terrible and there has never been an elite pass rusher in the NFL without excellent numbers in either the Vertical Jump/Broad Jump categories and/or the Short Shuttle/3-Cone, which JPP was abysmal in all.

So either his combine performance was a fluke and he is actually capable of doing better in those drills, or he will be a marginal player just like all of the other DE/OLB prospects of the past with terrible combine numbers. That's my opinion. I don't think he'll ever be a full-time three-down DE in the NFL. If I'm proven wrong, I will eat crow, but it will be truly remarkable because JPP will be bucking historical trends that have held true for the past 20+ years for pass rushers.

I am eagerly awaiting to see what he does in 2011 if Fewell gives him more snaps. I predict he will be mostly a non-factor, but that's my opinion.

If we're being blunt I think it's moronic to judge a player, who's clearly a superb athlete on the field, by what his combine numbers say. On the field he's explosive, remarkably fluid, is very strong, has insanely long limbs and bends his body better than most rookie DEs I've seen in the past decade I've been watching the NFL closely. Guess you just didn't watch many giants games huh since for him to be a non-factor that would mean he became worse next year, he blew quite a few plays this year making simple mistakes, but he didn't repeat his mistakes and made a number of impact plays throughout the year.