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JBCX
05-01-2011, 02:24 AM
Here are my grades for every team's draft haul in the 2011 draft, ranked in order of grade:

New York Giants - Rather than pick for need, they selected BPA in nearly every round and could stand to come away with the best draft haul of any team when all is said and done. Greg Jones, Da'Rel Scott, Marvin Austin, and Prince Amukamara all have star potential, and the Giants gave up nothing but their own draft picks to select these players at draft slots far lower than their individual ratings. Easily the best draft class of any team this year, from a value standpoint. A+

Indianapolis Colts - Bill Polian finally went ahead and simply selected the BPA at the positions of greatest need on his team: DT and OT. Costanzo and Ijalana will be the cornerstones of the new Colts O-Line for years to come, and Drake Nevis has the potential to add a new dimension to their pass rush. Just a super-solid draft for a team that isn't too far away from being a Super Bowl contender once more. A

Cincinnati Bengals - The Bengals looked to be stuck between a rock and a hard place with Carson Palmer's retirement, so what do they do? They take the best WR prospect in the draft to lure Palmer back, and then take (in my opinion) the best QB prospect in the draft in the 2nd round to give themselves an insurance policy in case Palmer never comes back. The Bengals also took my favorite defensive sleeper in the third round, Dontay Moch. This could very well be the best draft class of any team, but it all depends on Palmer's decision, and subsequently, the way you feel about Dalton. A

Detroit Lions - By selecting Nick Fairley, the Lions take advantage of an elite player sliding down the draft board just as the Giants took advantage of the same thing with Amukamara. Fairley is a boom-or-bust prospect, but if he booms, the Lions successfully stole the next Warren Sapp. The 2nd and 3rd round picks, however, give this draft more margin for error with Fairley. Mikell Leshoure and Titus Young were top prospects at their positions, and I'd be shocked if the Lions don't come away with at least one star, and maybe two or more, from this draft. They still need to fill their CB need, but they went a long way to adding talent to their roster. A-

Tampa Bay Buccaneers - The Bucs grabbed one of the top DE prospects in the first round, and then took a chance in the 2nd round on an elite DE prospect who fell due to injury. If both of these guys stay healthy and pan out, and Gerald McCoy and Brian Price continue to develop, the Bucs just built an elite D-Line in two successive drafts (2010, 2011). This draft grade depends quite a bit on the status of Bowers' knee. Mason Foster and Ahmad Black are two unathletic football players who compensate for their lack of speed with grit and instincts, and could become fixtures on their defense. Luke Stocker is a solid TE prospect. This has the potential to be a very good draft haul for the Bucs. A-

Houston Texans - The Texans focused solely on defense in this draft, and for a good reason, as their defense was wretched last year. JJ Watt and Brandon Harris were two of my favorite players in this draft and will help the Texans immensely. If the Texans don't improve under Wade Phillips with all of these defensive picks, I will be very shocked. B+

Washington Redskins - The Redskins expertly manipulated the draft board with trades to stock up on both quality and quantity. Ryan Kerrigan was the BPA in the first round for them, and Leonard Hankerson and Roy Helu are later round players who have star potential. Evan Royster will be a solid 1000-yard rusher in Mike Shanahan's offensive scheme. My only reservation is that they still haven't addressed the QB position. Otherwise this draft would be an easy A+. B+

Cleveland Browns - After robbing the Falcons of their present and future draft picks, the Browns filled out their roster with a bunch of solid prospects, on both offense and defense, up and down the draft board, and look to have plenty of future ammunition in next year's draft to rebuild their team as well. This is a great move for the future by the Browns organization. Nothing sexy in this draft, but this is the right way to go to become competitive again in the near future. B+

Buffalo Bills - The Bills took solid players at every level. I don't think any of their picks have real star potential, but they picked lots of guys who will start, and contribute, right away, especially on defense. I'm not as sold on Ryan Fitzpatrick as the Bills are, so I have to dock them slightly for not even considering a QB in this draft. B

New Orleans Saints - By trading back into the first round, the Saints found their new franchise RB, and by picking Cameron Jordan and Martez Wilson, they added two potential cornerstone pieces to their defense. If they hadn't traded away so much for Ingram, I'd give them an A, and if Wilson, Jordan, or Ingram become stars, I'll bump this grade up, but right now I'll rate this a solid B

Green Bay Packers - For a team that doesn't have many holes, and will be expecting many injured players returning in 2011, the Packers simply had the luxury of picking BPA at nearly every point in the draft, and came away with a handful of talented prospects at various positions. I didn't see any real "steals" or "wow" picks, but several of these players will contribute to an already loaded team. B

Chicago Bears - This was basically a two player draft: Gabe Carimi shores up the OL, and Stephen Paea shores up their DL. Both project as solid starters, and the Bears simply waited while these two players dropped to them. The Bears successfully addressed their needs with these picks, and anything they get out of their later round picks is gravy. B

St. Louis Rams - They saw an elite prospect fall to them much in the same way as Fairley fell to the Lions and Amukamara fell to the Giants. However, Quinn, in my opinion, is not nearly as "elite" a prospect as those two. If you really like Quinn, then the Rams stole a player, but I'm not as high on him. Picking a highly-rated DE prospect to play opposite Chris Long, however, is the correct choice to make in the first round. I do like, also, how the Rams tried to get playmakers for Sam Bradford through the 2nd-4th rounds, too. B

Arizona Cardinals - They did get one of the best players in the draft in Patrick Peterson, but this draft looks like a one- or two-player draft, and that one player isn't a QB, which the Cardinals still need. However, you can't argue with getting one of the top-4 players in the draft. B-

New England Patriots - I felt that the Patriots came away with some interesting players, and yet again manipulated the draft to stockpile future picks, but also found themselves yet again passing on pass-rushing prospects to do so. I like Dowling, and Solder has elite potential, but I can't give them anything higher than a B- because they didn't address their pass rush, despite everything else they did in the draft by getting extra picks and selecting some decent prospects, and potentially stealing a franchise QB in the 3rd round. B-

Denver Broncos - The Broncos selected the best pure pass rusher in the draft at #2, but they drafted him into the wrong defensive scheme. Von Miller will excel regardless of scheme, but he had DeMarcus Ware potential in a 3-4, and in Denver's 4-3 he will merely be a Derrick Brooks type of player. Regardless, Elway's first draft goes a long way to improving Denver's defense (Rahim Moore and others), but I would have picked Marcell Dareus at #2 instead - not because Dareus is a better prospect, but because the Broncos needed the run-stuffing DT more than a pass-rushing OLB. B-

Pittsburgh Steelers - This draft was all about beefing up the lines and adding some late-round Cover-2 CBs. Nothing jumps out at you about this draft, but there are a few solid players in this bunch that should help the Steelers in their areas of need along the OL and DL. B-

San Francisco 49ers - I personally don't like Aldon Smith as a player, but if you like Smith as a prospect, the position was the correct one to draft in the first round. I do, however, like Colin Caepernick, and I believe that Jim Harbaugh will get the most out of him. Getting him in the 2nd round was solid value. The rest of this draft is mostly roster filler. B-

Tennessee Titans - The Titans targeted "their guy" in the first round, and their guy was Jake Locker. I have reservations about any QB with a sub-60% completion rate, but accuracy issues aside, this guy is the ultimate QB prospect otherwise, from an intangibles and athletic standpoint. Akeem Ayers and Colin McCarthy could form the backbone of a solid LB corps of the future. B-

Baltimore Ravens - Jimmy Smith is the purest example of a classic boom-or-bust player. He'll either be a star of he'll be the next Pacman Jones. Sure, the Ravens have a strong locker room culture to keep this kid in line, but nobody truly knows what this kid will do. The rest of the Ravens' draft was comprised of potential playmakers for Joe Flacco. The grade of this draft really, however, depends on how you feel about Jimmy Smith. This is quite a gamble by Ozzie Newsome. C+

Kansas City Chiefs - Again, just like the Ravens, this draft grade depends on how you feel about a boom-or-bust prospect, or in this case two. Jonathan Baldwin, Allen Bailey, and Justin Houston have star potential but are also prospects with some question marks. This wasn't a "solid" draft but an uncharacteristic gamble on talent. C+

Miami Dolphins - The Dolphins potentially solved their running game by taking Pouncey and Thomas back-to-back, but little else. Are they completely sold on Chad Henne? I guess they are. This draft has the potential to be very solid, but nothing more. C+

New York Jets - This draft is all about beefing up their D-Line. Nothing more, nothing less. If the later-round picks pan out, that's great, but Rex Ryan simply wants to fortify his 3-4 front. I like Ellis and Wilkerson, but both are raw and have some question marks. McElroy late is an interesting pick as well. C

San Diego Chargers - I'm not as sold on Corey Liuget as most people, and I also thought that he was a 4-3 DT exclusively, so I don't like the Chargers taking him in the first round. The DBs they selected seem like average prospects, and the rest of their picks are nondescript as well, except for Shareece Wright, who has star potential if he can overcome his injury.C

Carolina Panthers - The Panthers were simply forced to take Cam Newton. I'm not as high on Newton as some are, but I realize that this was simply a pick they had to make. The fate of Ron Rivera will be tied to Cam Newton from here til eternity. The rest of this draft was mostly a bunch of bodies at DL, LB, and OL. C

Oakland Raiders - This looks more like a class Al Davis 40-time type of draft. Van Dyke and Chekwa are both burner CBs and Taiwan Jones is a burner RB. Wisnieski has the potential to be a solid OL starter, but this draft is all boom-or-bust speed guys and one solid O-Lineman. C

Dallas Cowboys - They went for position of need in the first round, but I don't feel that Tyron Smith is as sure of a prospect as some of the other OL taken in the first round. This would have been a much better pick if they could have traded down and selected Smith or someone like Costanzo and also received more draft picks in the process. I feel that they could have easily extracted more value from their pick in a trade-down. Bruce Carter is a "meh" pick at a position they are theoretically strong at already, in my opinion, and I'm not blown away by any other pick. C-

Minnesota Vikings - I am not as high on Christian Ponder as some people, and most people believe that he was a reach at #12 overall. Both Kyle Rudolph and Christian Ballard have the potential to be solid players, but I can't get too excited about what this draft class as a whole will do for the Vikings, especially with their future resting in Ponder's hands at this point. C-

Jacksonville Jaguars - The Jaguars went all-out for a QB. I personally don't like Blaine Gabbert, and disagree with the decision to ignore defensive prospects such as Ryan Kerrigan in favor of trading up to grab Gabbert, but I have to admire the conviction with which they went for "their guy". This draft grade all depends on how you feel about Gabbert and whether or not you believed the Jags truly needed a QB instead of a defensive playmaker. C-

Atlanta Falcons - Let's be blunt. The grade of this draft class all depends on how you feel about Julio Jones' ability to be a star in the NFL, and whether or not you believe that mortgaging your future for a single player is a good idea. I don't think that any team is ever "one player away" from a championship because funny things such as injuries and "regression to the mean" happen to teams every year. If you love Julio Jones, and you think the Falcons are locks to win the Super Bowl next year, you'll give them a higher grade, but I am philosophically opposed to mortgaging the farm, even for an already loaded team (which the Falcons actually aren't). C-

Philadelphia Eagles - They reached for a non-premium position in the first round by selecting OG Danny Watkins at #23. Not only that, but better OL was on the board in Gabe Carimi and Derrok Sherrod, and that doesn't even touch on the age issue. Then they committed a truly egregious reach in the 2nd round for 4th-5th round prospect Jaiquan Jarrett, and reached for CB Curtis Marsh in the 3rd round. Selecting some decent prospects in the later rounds is the only thing that saves this draft from being a total failure. D+

Seattle Seahawks - As many other draft analysts have already noted, Seattle reached for average players at nearly every pick. They did solidify their offensive line with some of their picks, but they didn't extract any value from the draft, and none of their picks have any star potential or serious upside, which this team badly needs. D

PossibleCabbage
05-01-2011, 03:09 AM
I have to say, if any team deserves to get a pass for not addressing the QB position it's Buffalo. Ryan Fitzpatrick is a significantly better "bridge" quarterback than Joe Webb, Rusty Smith, Jimmy Clausen, John Beck, or a number of other players in QB hungry needy cities. You fill enough holes elsewhere on the roster, and Buffalo can win games with Ryan Fitzpatrick. If they didn't really like the prospects or the value of any of the QBs on the board when they were picking, they're perfectly justified in waiting waiting and actually taking a guy they like next year, which is by all accounts a better QB class.

Chris
05-01-2011, 05:20 AM
Denver a B- . . . and a Miller to Brooks comparison? LOL.

Sounds like your knowledge of football grades out to an F.

C-YA.

nepg
05-01-2011, 08:38 AM
The Giants still have a guard playing left tackle. I like Prince, but they had no business passing on an OT in the first round. They also had no business passing on linebackers that fit their system. They didn't do anything to improve their chances of winning football games, they just improved their depth at positions that were already strengths.

BaLLiN
05-01-2011, 09:03 AM
The Giants still have a guard playing left tackle. I like Prince, but they had no business passing on an OT in the first round. They also had no business passing on linebackers that fit their system. They didn't do anything to improve their chances of winning football games, they just improved their depth at positions that were already strengths.

none of the rest of the OT's in the first are LT's imo or they aren't better than what we already have. We still have Beatty (former 2nd round pick 2 years ago) who will likely be getting his chance to start after being essentially redshirted for a year then got some playing time last year and impressed.

special teams is 1/3 of the game, we VASTLY improved that portion of our team. Greg Jones might even be a starter in a year or two, and taking a ILB earlier in this draft wasnt ideal because there aren't any easy fixes.

LB was not a strength, DT was not a strength, Returner was definitely not a strength, and neither was special teams. Prince will play seeing how Ross is constantly injured, and in a year when Ross is gone and we only have Webster and maybe Terrel Thomas we will look like geniuses for filling a need and getting a year to develop him before it became a need.

JaxJag_1
05-01-2011, 09:04 AM
Jacksonville Jaguars - The Jaguars went all-out for a QB. I personally don't like Blaine Gabbert, and disagree with the decision to ignore defensive prospects such as Ryan Kerrigan in favor of trading up to grab Gabbert, but I have to admire the conviction with which they went for "their guy". This draft grade all depends on how you feel about Gabbert and whether or not you believed the Jags truly needed a QB instead of a defensive playmaker. C-

I appreciate this post, but did we truly need a QB? YES

David Garrard was never going to take us beyond .500. 2007 was the exception.

Pass rush is still a need, but we have Aaron Kampman coming back healthy and 3 DE's that were rookies last year that flashed last year -- remember the name, Aaron Morgan. Jeremy Mincey is also solid.

scottyboy
05-01-2011, 09:33 AM
The Giants still have a guard playing left tackle. I like Prince, but they had no business passing on an OT in the first round. They also had no business passing on linebackers that fit their system. They didn't do anything to improve their chances of winning football games, they just improved their depth at positions that were already strengths.

and prepared for the future with TT and Ross coming up on contract years and coming off down seasons and improving our secondary when we're in a division with guys like Dez, Miles, Jackson, Maclin etc. Plus, with super strong DL and DB's, it can cover up a bit our "weakness" at LB.

and uhm, we picked Will Beatty 2 years ago and Jerry Reese is very high on him. He's a left tackle and might start there for us moving Diehl inside. If not, Diehl is a good run blocking OT, and while he's not a star by any means, he gets the job done and is far from a liability

jrdrylie
05-01-2011, 09:34 AM
I appreciate this post, but did we truly need a QB? YES

David Garrard was never going to take us beyond .500. 2007 was the exception.

Pass rush is still a need, but we have Aaron Kampman coming back healthy and 3 DE's that were rookies last year that flashed last year -- remember the name, Aaron Morgan. Jeremy Mincey is also solid.

Getting Gabbert was good but the factcremains he ignored the pass rush. We can't just assume Kampman will be healthy. He has hurt his knee two years in a row. The other ends are okay but nothing spectacular. And they reached on all their secondary selections. With a rookie starting at QB, the offense will take a step back. I don't feel the defense improved at all in this draft. I think six wins is what we can expect next season.

DiG
05-01-2011, 09:51 AM
Good job with the Skins. Im actually really happy we didnt reach on a qb just to take a qb. The value was never strong for us with qbs that fit into Shannys offense. I'm really excited about the receivers we took considering how void we are at the position. I thought we got great value there. Only wish wed taken another interior oline instead of one of the DBs.

Seasonticketholder
05-01-2011, 09:53 AM
Again, I am seriously not comprehending how anyone can say we gave up "too much" to move up for Ingram. We swapped firsts (theirs this year for ours next year) and gave up a second. That's not any different than a team who moves up in the first and has to give up a second to do so.

It would be the same as if NE was sitting at #17 and we were sitting at #24 and traded our second to move up to the #17. The only difference is that our first is coming next year as opposed to this year. And the thing is, the first could very end up being the last pick of the round.

Too much is what Atlanta gave up for Julio Jones. That's too much!

Bobertchin
05-01-2011, 10:24 AM
I appreciate this post, but did we truly need a QB? YES

David Garrard was never going to take us beyond .500. 2007 was the exception.

Pass rush is still a need, but we have Aaron Kampman coming back healthy and 3 DE's that were rookies last year that flashed last year -- remember the name, Aaron Morgan. Jeremy Mincey is also solid.

As a Titans fan, I agree with this. The Gabbert pick was a really good one. I couldn't believe people were saying the Jags didn't need a QB. Garrard doesn't scare anybody. He's too inconsistent. He flashes at times, but he's unlikely to take you guys anywhere.

I didn't think the Jags did enough to get that defense back on track though, and I'm still not sure they've fixed the OL enough. IMO, the Jags have needs on both lines. However, they have some young guys on DL that could still work out.

I'd give the Jags draft a B, mainly because I love the Gabbert pick.

Twinblade
05-01-2011, 10:54 AM
So trading 4 draft picks (Swap 1st rounds this year) is too much? right.. sure. If the pats done the same trade, people will praise them. Too each of their own I guess.

billsfootball15
05-01-2011, 11:27 AM
I think a B is a little harsh for the Bills. They arguably drafted 3 immediate starters in their first 3 picks. BTW for the record, we were Gosselin's only A+ which makes me feel warm and fuzzy.

JaxJag_1
05-01-2011, 11:32 AM
As a Titans fan, I agree with this. The Gabbert pick was a really good one. I couldn't believe people were saying the Jags didn't need a QB. Garrard doesn't scare anybody. He's too inconsistent. He flashes at times, but he's unlikely to take you guys anywhere.

I didn't think the Jags did enough to get that defense back on track though, and I'm still not sure they've fixed the OL enough. IMO, the Jags have needs on both lines. However, they have some young guys on DL that could still work out.

I'd give the Jags draft a B, mainly because I love the Gabbert pick.

Spot on with David. Inconsistent and limits us offensively often.

I love our OL. Eugene Monroe and Eben Britton are one of the best ascending OT bookends in football. Uche Nwaneri at RG and two veterans at LG and C -- Vinny Manuwai and Brad Meester.

Will Rackley will supplant Manuwai at some point this year or next year Week 1 when Manuwai is a FA.

There are also a lot of "jars on the shelf" developing. John Estes, Kevin Haslam, and Daniel Baldridge that we are all high on.

Can't forget the veteran back-up Justin Smiley either.

I also don't think Prosinski or Issac will be considered reaches. Both are going to be very good players. I hyped Prosinski up prior to the draft on the Jaguars.com MB and Issac gives us an immediate boost at the nickel CB spot.

We can't forget that free agency will open at some point and we'll plug in some good players then. That's the plan.

NY+Giants=NYG
05-01-2011, 11:32 AM
The Giants still have a guard playing left tackle. I like Prince, but they had no business passing on an OT in the first round. They also had no business passing on linebackers that fit their system. They didn't do anything to improve their chances of winning football games, they just improved their depth at positions that were already strengths.

He has been since 2007 and still has been doing a good job. However, we have Beatty as our LT, if he doesn't progress we can still have David D play LT like always and have our rookie Petrus play guard if Rich S. is still hurt. We drafted and took care of these things. Meanwhile, we develop the tackle we drafted this year, and plug him in a season or two if need be.

As far as our chance of winning football games, we added to our defense which will be in year 2 of Perry Fewell. We added to CB, DT, LB, and safety when we go 3 safety nickel package. Now Fewell in year 2 has more toys to be creative with.

JBCX
05-01-2011, 11:43 AM
I think a B is a little harsh for the Bills. They arguably drafted 3 immediate starters in their first 3 picks. BTW for the record, we were Gosselin's only A+ which makes me feel warm and fuzzy.

A 'B' is not a bad grade. I like the Bills draft, except that I don't see anyone with real "star" potential, and they didn't address the QB need at all. Otherwise, it'd be an 'A' draft.

SenorGato
05-01-2011, 12:10 PM
I cannot wait to see Kenrick Ellis and Wilkerson on the field. Hopefully I won't have to. No homer I think they're going to be exciting for the Rex Ryan D. This team has needed a DL draft since '06 when they made the 3-4 change...finally it's been done.

SolidGold
05-01-2011, 12:36 PM
Nice write up, still think the 49ers took Caepernick way to early. Next year's draft class will probably get them a first round QB.

Bobertchin
05-01-2011, 02:18 PM
I liked the Kaepernick pick by the 9ers, actually. I'm a bit surprised they would go after another raw talent at the position, but they did have a need, and who else was left? Kaepernick was probably the best QB on the board at that point, and they can't really afford to wait until next year.

J-Mike88
05-01-2011, 02:22 PM
Denver a B- . . . and a Miller to Brooks comparison? LOL.

Sounds like your knowledge of football grades out to an F.

C-YA.
His knowledge seems fine. People disagree. People within the same team disagree.
Is your knowledge superior to his? Where's your team-by-team writeup of every draft pick?
Waiting...........

wicket
05-01-2011, 02:30 PM
Again, I am seriously not comprehending how anyone can say we gave up "too much" to move up for Ingram. We swapped firsts (theirs this year for ours next year) and gave up a second. That's not any different than a team who moves up in the first and has to give up a second to do so.

It would be the same as if NE was sitting at #17 and we were sitting at #24 and traded our second to move up to the #17. The only difference is that our first is coming next year as opposed to this year. And the thing is, the first could very end up being the last pick of the round.

Too much is what Atlanta gave up for Julio Jones. That's too much!

Ill try and not have the fit and need discussion again as you clearly think he is a good fit and rb is a need and you know I think rb wasnt a need and ingram didnt fit in the saints offense at all.

The reason I think people say we gave up to much (and I actually support this) that such a trade is just not the type of trade you want to do for a running back. Only for positions where you have gaping holes, like if you were just short a starter at OT and a solid starter level prospect fell (think what the colts did with ugoh, even though that worked out pretty bad). To trade a future first on a perceived luxury pick is a tough thing to like. On top of that the trade value was steepish. Basically we traded our next first rounder which could be a few picks later but is expected to be right around the same spot or a bit lower and to just move that pick one year forward we gave up another premium pick with which the team could be improved straight away. I think the par value for the trade was 2012 first and that washington 3rd rounder.

edit: On top of the trade could have been made quite a few picks later probably

PossibleCabbage
05-01-2011, 02:35 PM
A 'B' is not a bad grade. I like the Bills draft, except that I don't see anyone with real "star" potential, and they didn't address the QB need at all. Otherwise, it'd be an 'A' draft.

Suppose for a minute that the Bills scouted QBs extensively, and they never had a shot at a QB who was fair value that projected to be better than Ryan Fitzpatrick. Are you downgrading them for just not reaching for a QB for the sake of reaching for a QB? It's generally not worth spending a draft pick on a guy you think will be worse than a guy you've already got on your roster even if it is at a "need" position, especially when you can get a guy who is better than somebody on your roster at a "non-need" position.

It's not like it's in any way a stretch to believe that there were NFL teams who were really down on this year's QB class.

Chris
05-01-2011, 02:42 PM
His knowledge seems fine. People disagree. People within the same team disagree.
Is your knowledge superior to his? Where's your team-by-team writeup of every draft pick?
Waiting...........

I don't care about other teams, I'm not going to grade them.

His assessment of Miller is wrong, as is his player comparison. Miller is a SLB in our defense, not a WLB where Brooks thrived for his entire career.

Also, look at the scheme's each year Miller was at A&M and tell me, in which he was most productive, and which scheme he played in (or year) is most comparable to his situation right now.

I'll give you a real good guess on how it matches up.

JBCX
05-01-2011, 03:00 PM
wait, 'merely' a derrick brooks type player? 'merely' a guy who will likely be in the hall of fame (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=yasinskas_pat&id=3434965)? what a terrible draft pick. http://i613.photobucket.com/albums/tt218/darthnull/Emoticons/rolleye.gif

(and that's assuming, of course, that anything else about that statement made sense)

Look, what I'm saying is that Von Miller has the talent to be a great 4-3 OLB, but because he is such a great pass rusher, he's somewhat wasted in that scheme because he doesn't rush the passer as often as he would as a 3-4 OLB.

Pass rushing has more impact on the outcome of the game than simply tackling in space or covering RBs/TEs. Miller will excel at all facets of the game, and will look great as a 4-3 OLB, but he could be even *more* as a 3-4 OLB.

Chris
05-01-2011, 03:05 PM
Apparently you don't watch much A and M.

Do you know how often teams use nickel packages in the NFL?

He is going to boss either way.

You are a moron.

PossibleCabbage
05-01-2011, 03:09 PM
wait, 'merely' a derrick brooks type player? 'merely' a guy who will likely be in the hall of fame (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=yasinskas_pat&id=3434965)? what a terrible draft pick. http://i613.photobucket.com/albums/tt218/darthnull/Emoticons/rolleye.gif

(and that's assuming, of course, that anything else about that statement made sense)

You forget, of course, that casual fans have demonstrated that they are incredibly accurate at evaluating linebacker play by reading box scores and watching highlights on sportscenter. http://i613.photobucket.com/albums/tt218/darthnull/Emoticons/rolleye.gif

That being said, I think the more coherent version of the point is a fear of Miller following in the footsteps of other highly rated, highly drafted players who went on to be OLBs in a 4-3 defense and ended up having careers that (to this point at least) have failed to capture the imagination of anybody at all. What separates Miller from guys like AJ Hawk and Aaron Curry is pretty much "Miller can rush the passer" but it's just that schematically, as a 4-3 OLB, his opportunities to rush the passer will be limited because he has obligations. He's a player that a defensive coordinator can make good use of, but I don't love the schematic fit. In terms of positional value, I would put 4-3 OLB below Free Safety, and a bunch of people had a snit last year about Eric Berry going in the top 5 because of the position he played.

Monomach
05-01-2011, 03:15 PM
Denver Broncos - The Broncos selected the best pure pass rusher in the draft at #2, but they drafted him into the wrong defensive scheme. Von Miller will excel regardless of scheme, but he had DeMarcus Ware potential in a 3-4, and in Denver's 4-3 he will merely be a Derrick Brooks type of player. Regardless, Elway's first draft goes a long way to improving Denver's defense (Rahim Moore and others), but I would have picked Marcell Dareus at #2 instead - not because Dareus is a better prospect, but because the Broncos needed the run-stuffing DT more than a pass-rushing OLB. B-

Preach on, JBCX. You certainly roasted those poor Denver fans.

I'll try one now...Hey, Bills! Way to waste a pick on Dareus. He's no better than Warren Sapp! BURNNNNNN!

ElectricEye
05-01-2011, 03:22 PM
That merely a Derrick Brooks comment is pretty damn classic stuff. I would take a million merely Derrick Brooks all day erryday and twice on Sundays. Miller isn't even that type of player though, in the slightest. He'll get after the passer a lot even in a 4-3. Might even be a better fit for him in the end to be honest. He'll be able to go unblocked on the blitz and burst with regularity.

JBCX
05-01-2011, 03:26 PM
Maybe the "merely a derrick brooks" comment was a bit silly, but my basic point is this: Because they are switching to a 4-3 and are lacking DTs and play in a division with strong running games, picking a run-stuffing DT such as Marcell Dareus instead of a 3-4 OLB to play 4-3 OLB would have been the smarter move for Denver.

That is my only point. I love Von Miller as a prospect in general, but felt that picking Dareus was the smarter move in the long term.

ElectricEye
05-01-2011, 03:28 PM
I wouldn't be terribly concerned about scheme if I were a Denver fan. We haven't seen a lot of 43 OLB's who are big time pass rushers lately, but that's partially a function of those guys being such a highly valued commodity to 34 teams. Good coaches take the players they're given and find a role for them. Miller's best asset is his ability to get after the quarterback. If they didn't envision him doing that for them, they wouldn't have taken him at #2...unless they were absolutely blasted on draft day. John Fox is a good coach who has run multiple styles and flavors of defenses. He's coached two of the better pass rushers in the modern era in Julius Peppers and Michael Strahan, so he's obviously got a healthy respect for that element of the game. He'll find packages for Miller to play with his hand down and allow him to attack the line of scrimmage. Orakpo played a similar role in Washinton a few years ago to the one I'm envisioning for Miller and got to the quarterback plenty...and Miller is a better fit for that position anyway.

PossibleCabbage
05-01-2011, 03:31 PM
The Broncos defense wasn't going to become good in one year, no matter how many draft picks they had. McDaniel's "brilliant" personnel management and abortive switch to the 3-4 without really acquiring much talent, coupled with years of wondering what exactly Shanahan was doing on draft day have put that roster in pretty deep hole, particularly on defense.

You have to, at some level, respect the decision of "look, we're not going to be winning any championships in the next year or two, let's just get some good players in here."

PossibleCabbage
05-01-2011, 03:46 PM
i'd argue that mcdaniels choice to move to a 34 wasn't actually a bad one, provided he'd committed to that, rather than committing to destroying the offense in his first few months.

The choice to switching to a 34 wasn't a bad one (though it may have been poorly timed, occurring a time when a bunch of other teams were doing the same thing). The reason I called the switch "abortive" is that McDaniels never really committed the resources to the front 7 to actually play the 3-4 defense effectively. Of 10 picks in rounds 1-3, he spent exactly one of them on a front 7 player (and one that didn't fit especially well in the 34). This is not the way one builds, changes, or reinforces a defense.

So it wasn't a bad idea, it was just badly executed (as with most of McDaniels' gambits, many of which actually were bad ideas.)

Iamcanadian
05-01-2011, 03:47 PM
Here are my grades for every team's draft haul in the 2011 draft, ranked in order of grade:

New York Giants - Rather than pick for need, they selected BPA in nearly every round and could stand to come away with the best draft haul of any team when all is said and done. Greg Jones, Da'Rel Scott, Marvin Austin, and Prince Amukamara all have star potential, and the Giants gave up nothing but their own draft picks to select these players at draft slots far lower than their individual ratings. Easily the best draft class of any team this year, from a value standpoint. A+

I like the Giants draft but giving them an A+ for the Prince who was overrated in the 1st place and Austin who I love but he definitely has character issues is a bit too much. A-

Indianapolis Colts - Bill Polian finally went ahead and simply selected the BPA at the positions of greatest need on his team: DT and OT. Costanzo and Ijalana will be the cornerstones of the new Colts O-Line for years to come, and Drake Nevis has the potential to add a new dimension to their pass rush. Just a super-solid draft for a team that isn't too far away from being a Super Bowl contender once more. A

Sorry but I just don't see it. B+

Cincinnati Bengals - The Bengals looked to be stuck between a rock and a hard place with Carson Palmer's retirement, so what do they do? They take the best WR prospect in the draft to lure Palmer back, and then take (in my opinion) the best QB prospect in the draft in the 2nd round to give themselves an insurance policy in case Palmer never comes back. The Bengals also took my favorite defensive sleeper in the third round, Dontay Moch. This could very well be the best draft class of any team, but it all depends on Palmer's decision, and subsequently, the way you feel about Dalton. A

Cincy has a very small scouting department because Brown is cheap and more cheap, hence they tend to rely on what they hear on NFLN. I don't see Palmer being lured back, and I think all they got in Dalton is a game manager. B

Detroit Lions - By selecting Nick Fairley, the Lions take advantage of an elite player sliding down the draft board just as the Giants took advantage of the same thing with Amukamara. Fairley is a boom-or-bust prospect, but if he booms, the Lions successfully stole the next Warren Sapp. The 2nd and 3rd round picks, however, give this draft more margin for error with Fairley. Mikell Leshoure and Titus Young were top prospects at their positions, and I'd be shocked if the Lions don't come away with at least one star, and maybe two or more, from this draft. They still need to fill their CB need, but they went a long way to adding talent to their roster. A-

I'd give them an A. Their whole team now depends on the health of Stafford, so their OL had better do its job.

Tampa Bay Buccaneers - The Bucs grabbed one of the top DE prospects in the first round, and then took a chance in the 2nd round on an elite DE prospect who fell due to injury. If both of these guys stay healthy and pan out, and Gerald McCoy and Brian Price continue to develop, the Bucs just built an elite D-Line in two successive drafts (2010, 2011). This draft grade depends quite a bit on the status of Bowers' knee. Mason Foster and Ahmad Black are two unathletic football players who compensate for their lack of speed with grit and instincts, and could become fixtures on their defense. Luke Stocker is a solid TE prospect. This has the potential to be a very good draft haul for the Bucs. A-

Two guys with health issues sounds more like a C+ to me. Could go up but that is where it starts from.

Houston Texans - The Texans focused solely on defense in this draft, and for a good reason, as their defense was wretched last year. JJ Watt and Brandon Harris were two of my favorite players in this draft and will help the Texans immensely. If the Texans don't improve under Wade Phillips with all of these defensive picks, I will be very shocked. B+

Strictly a B for me. Not a fan of Harris at all. Nickle CB at best.

Washington Redskins - The Redskins expertly manipulated the draft board with trades to stock up on both quality and quantity. Ryan Kerrigan was the BPA in the first round for them, and Leonard Hankerson and Roy Helu are later round players who have star potential. Evan Royster will be a solid 1000-yard rusher in Mike Shanahan's offensive scheme. My only reservation is that they still haven't addressed the QB position. Otherwise this draft would be an easy A+. B+

D for me, Kerrigan must not only prove he can be a good pass rusher in the NFL, he must show some real ability to cover pass receivers by dropping back into coverage. Orakpo stinks at dropping back and 1 of the 3-4 LB's must be able to do it. Star potential for Hankerson, Helu and Royster, not a chance????

Cleveland Browns - After robbing the Falcons of their present and future draft picks, the Browns filled out their roster with a bunch of solid prospects, on both offense and defense, up and down the draft board, and look to have plenty of future ammunition in next year's draft to rebuild their team as well. This is a great move for the future by the Browns organization. Nothing sexy in this draft, but this is the right way to go to become competitive again in the near future. B+

This draft was a disaster for the Browns, you finish last to get high picks to get impact players around which a foundation can be built for rebuilding your franchise into a contender. This is the second time in 3 years they have traded out of the top 10, who are their franchise players??? Where is their foundation??? Atlanta gave up the 27th pick, that's 2nd round talent and Cleveland had to give up a high pick to move up to get anybody decent in this year's draft, worse yet, Atlanta could finish even higher in the standings next year, giving Cleveland another 2nd round talent. Just plain poor drafting IMO, and your not going to challenge Pittsburgh and Baltimore this way. Heck, they don't even know for sure they have a QB who can stand with Roethlisber or Flacco. D-

Buffalo Bills - The Bills took solid players at every level. I don't think any of their picks have real star potential, but they picked lots of guys who will start, and contribute, right away, especially on defense. I'm not as sold on Ryan Fitzpatrick as the Bills are, so I have to dock them slightly for not even considering a QB in this draft. B

Dareus hasn't star potential??? I agree they still need a franchise QB. B+

New Orleans Saints - By trading back into the first round, the Saints found their new franchise RB, and by picking Cameron Jordan and Martez Wilson, they added two potential cornerstone pieces to their defense. If they hadn't traded away so much for Ingram, I'd give them an A, and if Wilson, Jordan, or Ingram become stars, I'll bump this grade up, but right now I'll rate this a solid B

A+ for a contending team to get this much.

Green Bay Packers - For a team that doesn't have many holes, and will be expecting many injured players returning in 2011, the Packers simply had the luxury of picking BPA at nearly every point in the draft, and came away with a handful of talented prospects at various positions. I didn't see any real "steals" or "wow" picks, but several of these players will contribute to an already loaded team. B

Chicago Bears - This was basically a two player draft: Gabe Carimi shores up the OL, and Stephen Paea shores up their DL. Both project as solid starters, and the Bears simply waited while these two players dropped to them. The Bears successfully addressed their needs with these picks, and anything they get out of their later round picks is gravy. B

St. Louis Rams - They saw an elite prospect fall to them much in the same way as Fairley fell to the Lions and Amukamara fell to the Giants. However, Quinn, in my opinion, is not nearly as "elite" a prospect as those two. If you really like Quinn, then the Rams stole a player, but I'm not as high on him. Picking a highly-rated DE prospect to play opposite Chris Long, however, is the correct choice to make in the first round. I do like, also, how the Rams tried to get playmakers for Sam Bradford through the 2nd-4th rounds, too. B

The Prince cannot hold Quinn's jockstap if you are talking about potential. Quinn only 2 questions were his brain tumour and whether or not he could play OLB in a 3-4. Take away the brain tumour worries which obviously aren't a real great concern and the fact that the Rams don't play a 3-4 and you have a superstar.


Arizona Cardinals - They did get one of the best players in the draft in Patrick Peterson, but this draft looks like a one- or two-player draft, and that one player isn't a QB, which the Cardinals still need. However, you can't argue with getting one of the top-4 players in the draft. B-

New England Patriots - I felt that the Patriots came away with some interesting players, and yet again manipulated the draft to stockpile future picks, but also found themselves yet again passing on pass-rushing prospects to do so. I like Dowling, and Solder has elite potential, but I can't give them anything higher than a B- because they didn't address their pass rush, despite everything else they did in the draft by getting extra picks and selecting some decent prospects, and potentially stealing a franchise QB in the 3rd round. B-

A at least.

Denver Broncos - The Broncos selected the best pure pass rusher in the draft at #2, but they drafted him into the wrong defensive scheme. Von Miller will excel regardless of scheme, but he had DeMarcus Ware potential in a 3-4, and in Denver's 4-3 he will merely be a Derrick Brooks type of player. Regardless, Elway's first draft goes a long way to improving Denver's defense (Rahim Moore and others), but I would have picked Marcell Dareus at #2 instead - not because Dareus is a better prospect, but because the Broncos needed the run-stuffing DT more than a pass-rushing OLB. B-

He's got superstar in a 4-3 defense written all over him???? What do you think 4-3 OLB's like Miller did before the 3-4 defense, they dominated or maybe you never heard of Lawrence Taylor etc. etc. A+

Pittsburgh Steelers - This draft was all about beefing up the lines and adding some late-round Cover-2 CBs. Nothing jumps out at you about this draft, but there are a few solid players in this bunch that should help the Steelers in their areas of need along the OL and DL. B-

San Francisco 49ers - I personally don't like Aldon Smith as a player, but if you like Smith as a prospect, the position was the correct one to draft in the first round. I do, however, like Colin Caepernick, and I believe that Jim Harbaugh will get the most out of him. Getting him in the 2nd round was solid value. The rest of this draft is mostly roster filler. B-

I love Aldon Smith but I would downgrade them for Kaepernick.

Tennessee Titans - The Titans targeted "their guy" in the first round, and their guy was Jake Locker. I have reservations about any QB with a sub-60% completion rate, but accuracy issues aside, this guy is the ultimate QB prospect otherwise, from an intangibles and athletic standpoint. Akeem Ayers and Colin McCarthy could form the backbone of a solid LB corps of the future. B-

Locker gets a C from me. He'll have to prove he deserves more.

Baltimore Ravens - Jimmy Smith is the purest example of a classic boom-or-bust player. He'll either be a star of he'll be the next Pacman Jones. Sure, the Ravens have a strong locker room culture to keep this kid in line, but nobody truly knows what this kid will do. The rest of the Ravens' draft was comprised of potential playmakers for Joe Flacco. The grade of this draft really, however, depends on how you feel about Jimmy Smith. This is quite a gamble by Ozzie Newsome. C+

Kansas City Chiefs - Again, just like the Ravens, this draft grade depends on how you feel about a boom-or-bust prospect, or in this case two. Jonathan Baldwin, Allen Bailey, and Justin Houston have star potential but are also prospects with some question marks. This wasn't a "solid" draft but an uncharacteristic gamble on talent. C+

Miami Dolphins - The Dolphins potentially solved their running game by taking Pouncey and Thomas back-to-back, but little else. Are they completely sold on Chad Henne? I guess they are. This draft has the potential to be very solid, but nothing more. C+

I suspect they are looking to FA to solve their QB woes so I gave them a B. What else could they do at #15?

New York Jets - This draft is all about beefing up their D-Line. Nothing more, nothing less. If the later-round picks pan out, that's great, but Rex Ryan simply wants to fortify his 3-4 front. I like Ellis and Wilkerson, but both are raw and have some question marks. McElroy late is an interesting pick as well. C

San Diego Chargers - I'm not as sold on Corey Liuget as most people, and I also thought that he was a 4-3 DT exclusively, so I don't like the Chargers taking him in the first round. The DBs they selected seem like average prospects, and the rest of their picks are nondescript as well, except for Shareece Wright, who has star potential if he can overcome his injury.C

Carolina Panthers - The Panthers were simply forced to take Cam Newton. I'm not as high on Newton as some are, but I realize that this was simply a pick they had to make. The fate of Ron Rivera will be tied to Cam Newton from here til eternity. The rest of this draft was mostly a bunch of bodies at DL, LB, and OL. C

A+ for me, anytime you get a real potential franchise QB, you get an A+ till he flops.

Oakland Raiders - This looks more like a class Al Davis 40-time type of draft. Van Dyke and Chekwa are both burner CBs and Taiwan Jones is a burner RB. Wisnieski has the potential to be a solid OL starter, but this draft is all boom-or-bust speed guys and one solid O-Lineman. C

Really only see a D+

Dallas Cowboys - They went for position of need in the first round, but I don't feel that Tyron Smith is as sure of a prospect as some of the other OL taken in the first round. This would have been a much better pick if they could have traded down and selected Smith or someone like Costanzo and also received more draft picks in the process. I feel that they could have easily extracted more value from their pick in a trade-down. Bruce Carter is a "meh" pick at a position they are theoretically strong at already, in my opinion, and I'm not blown away by any other pick. C-

I hate Jerry Jones as a drafter and as a GM, he's a noose around the Cowboys' neck, but I have to give him his due in this draft. Love Smith and taking a shot on Carter is a solid risk IMO. A+

Minnesota Vikings - I am not as high on Christian Ponder as some people, and most people believe that he was a reach at #12 overall. Both Kyle Rudolph and Christian Ballard have the potential to be solid players, but I can't get too excited about what this draft class as a whole will do for the Vikings, especially with their future resting in Ponder's hands at this point. C-

I agree although Rudolph could be a potential star.

Jacksonville Jaguars - The Jaguars went all-out for a QB. I personally don't like Blaine Gabbert, and disagree with the decision to ignore defensive prospects such as Ryan Kerrigan in favor of trading up to grab Gabbert, but I have to admire the conviction with which they went for "their guy". This draft grade all depends on how you feel about Gabbert and whether or not you believed the Jags truly needed a QB instead of a defensive playmaker. C-

When you need a franchise QB and you believe in one that has that potential, it's an A+ till he flops.

Atlanta Falcons - Let's be blunt. The grade of this draft class all depends on how you feel about Julio Jones' ability to be a star in the NFL, and whether or not you believe that mortgaging your future for a single player is a good idea. I don't think that any team is ever "one player away" from a championship because funny things such as injuries and "regression to the mean" happen to teams every year. If you love Julio Jones, and you think the Falcons are locks to win the Super Bowl next year, you'll give them a higher grade, but I am philosophically opposed to mortgaging the farm, even for an already loaded team (which the Falcons actually aren't). C-

Loved the decision to trade for Jones, that is how contending teams take the next step. What do you really get with the #27 pick??? A+

Philadelphia Eagles - They reached for a non-premium position in the first round by selecting OG Danny Watkins at #23. Not only that, but better OL was on the board in Gabe Carimi and Derrok Sherrod, and that doesn't even touch on the age issue. Then they committed a truly egregious reach in the 2nd round for 4th-5th round prospect Jaiquan Jarrett, and reached for CB Curtis Marsh in the 3rd round. Selecting some decent prospects in the later rounds is the only thing that saves this draft from being a total failure. D+

Completely disagree, Watkins should be downgraded because of his age but he will be a monster till he retires and can be plugged in right away. Far better prospect than either Carimi or Sherrod. However I do believe that Reid needed to consider that Vick doesn't need the greatest OL with his excapability so I would only give them a B.

Seattle Seahawks - As many other draft analysts have already noted, Seattle reached for average players at nearly every pick. They did solidify their offensive line with some of their picks, but they didn't extract any value from the draft, and none of their picks have any star potential or serious upside, which this team badly needs. D

I'd be a bit more generous at C+.


Wasn't trying to be critical, we all know that ranking drafts the next day hasn't any real meaning but is just opinions. Just too lazy to type out my own list so yours was convenient.

PossibleCabbage
05-01-2011, 04:35 PM
Could I humbly request that you not quote the entire OP, and just issue your response? I had to use the "page down" button 14 times to get to the quick reply, and I already read the initial post once. If everybody quoted the entire OP, this thread would get hard to read in a hurry.

Iamcanadian
05-01-2011, 04:40 PM
Could I humbly request that you not quote the entire OP, and just issue your response? I had to use the "page down" button 14 times to get to the quick reply, and I already read the initial post once. If everybody quoted the entire OP, this thread would get hard to read in a hurry.

Sorry, but I cannot change it now since my comments reflect his.

PossibleCabbage
05-01-2011, 04:44 PM
Sorry, but I cannot change it now since my comments reflect his.

It's okay, it would just be a mess if this caught on.

ChiefMojo
05-01-2011, 06:17 PM
So with the Chiefs draft it could be considered a A+ or a C+ depending on what your expecting/looking for. From a pure talent/need/value aspect it was a tremendous draft for KC. But if you value in the boom or bust aspect I can understand how some are leery. If this draft booms like KC is hoping, it could spell a powerhouse with the young team KC already has compiled.

It is becoming pretty apparent that Scott Pioli prefers major BCS talent over projects/lower level prospects. To some that scares them because they think your just going off names. To Pioli if you can perform at a very high level in the SEC (his fav conference to draft from), BIG XII, Big 10, Pac-10, ACC, etc. then he thinks you will be a stud in the NFL. He wants kids that have already been in the lime light.

prock
05-01-2011, 06:18 PM
Apparently you don't watch much A and M.

Do you know how often teams use nickel packages in the NFL?

He is going to boss either way.

You are a moron.

Don't be too condescending... You are really making yourself look real smart here.

bored of education
05-01-2011, 06:27 PM
I dont see BUST with a 3-4 OLB drafted in the 3rd I can name 10-15 guys that haven't even sniffed the field in the last 5 years who were drafted in the first two rounds to play OLB. The value was amazing. The upside is amazing, the down side..is joining the club of about 85% of OLBs/DEs in the last 5-8 years that havent done much. A lot of players it too early but here is a small list( i wont post anyone drafted last year): Aaron Maybin, Aaron Curry, Robert Ayers, Everrette Brown, Connor Barwin, David Veikune, Cody Brown, Vernon Gholston, Quinten Groves, Jordon Dizon, Jarvis Moss, Derrick Harvey,

nevermind I will stop. some ****** prospects...not many with the overall talent and skillset as Houston. AND KC drafted him in the 3rd round.

k thanx

billsfootball15
05-01-2011, 06:45 PM
Please help me understand, everyone is saying they love the dareus pick but at the same time saying we (the bills) still need a franchise quarterback, so therefore our draft is downgraded. We aren't gonna find a franchise quarterback in the 5th round so why not keep building. Buddy Nix has made it clear Cam Newton would have been the pick if he was there at 3 so if they felt he was the only franchise quarterback in the draft then why waste a pick on someone they dont envision being more than a career backup. Fitz has proved to be more than a serviceable stop-gap qb as buffalo tries to build up some talent. Idk i dont understand why just because we didnt draft devlin in rd 7, our draft is considered not as good.

BaLLiN
05-01-2011, 06:54 PM
i actually think Fitzpatrick is a good starter, didnt think the bills should draft one this year, but next year possibly if he doesn't continue his production

Saints-Tigers
05-01-2011, 07:19 PM
I remember when having a 4-3 OLB that could get after the passer was a good thing. Von Miller is an explosive pass rusher, but that explosion translates very well to covering, beating backs to the corner, and causing a ton of turnovers.

Oh, and you can still rush him a lot from a 4-3.

I think he would be more of a waste if you just pencil him in as a passrusher on every down.

ramsrule
05-01-2011, 07:20 PM
There is one blogger in Charlotte who thinks Ziemba will be a steal.

http://lovingcharlotteblog.com/2011/05/panthers-make-big-splash-in-nfl-draft/#respond

no need to quote the entire post.

Texas Homer
05-01-2011, 07:29 PM
I liked the Texans draft.

JBCX
05-01-2011, 07:42 PM
I dont see BUST with a 3-4 OLB drafted in the 3rd I can name 10-15 guys that haven't even sniffed the field in the last 5 years who were drafted in the first two rounds to play OLB. The value was amazing. The upside is amazing, the down side..is joining the club of about 85% of OLBs/DEs in the last 5-8 years that havent done much. A lot of players it too early but here is a small list( i wont post anyone drafted last year): Aaron Maybin, Aaron Curry, Robert Ayers, Everrette Brown, Connor Barwin, David Veikune, Cody Brown, Vernon Gholston, Quinten Groves, Jordon Dizon, Jarvis Moss, Derrick Harvey,

nevermind I will stop. some ****** prospects...not many with the overall talent and skillset as Houston. AND KC drafted him in the 3rd round.

k thanx

Justin Houston is definitely their best pick of this draft, I'll agree. His upside is worth a risk in the 3rd round.

Jonathan Baldwin in the 1st - not so much, in my opinion.

fenikz
05-01-2011, 07:42 PM
Player for player AZ got as much talent as any team in the league. Resigning our O-Line and bringing in a vet QB is the next step but the draft itself is a B+ at worst

JBCX
05-01-2011, 07:46 PM
Player for player AZ got as much talent as any team in the league. Resigning our O-Line and bringing in a vet QB is the next step but the draft itself is a B+ at worst

Anyone can sit at #5 and take one of the top players available. To distinguish yourself as a GM and earn a higher grade for your draft, you have to extract value from your picks by, say, trading down but still getting your man in the first, or stealing higher-rated players at lower draft slots, or getting exceptional quality and/or quantity from the later rounds.

The Cardinals got Patrick Peterson, and that's great, but they didn't steal one of the top QBs in the 2nd round like the Bengals or 49ers did, nor did they do much manuevering like the Redskins and Browns, nor did they get tremendous value at every step of the way like the Giants.

Nikolas
05-01-2011, 07:55 PM
I think the problem we're having is that we each have different criteria as to what constitutes a good draft pick.

For me, an A+ pick has to satisfy three criteria:

1) How good of a fit is the player in the current system.
2) How big of a need is the player's position.
3) How much value was obtained in the pick.

To use the Texans as an example, J.J. Watt would only rate a B-, since while he's a good fit, and the Texans definitely have a need at that position, they could have traded back and still gotten their man. By contrast, Brandon Harris was an "A+" pick for them, because he not only fills a need and is a good fit, he was a steal at #60.

Of course, we'll need 2-3 years to truly judge this draft class. People thought the Texans were stupid to pick Mario Williams over Reggie Bush and Vince Young, but two of those three players are expected to be traded/cut this offseason, and it's not Super Mario.

roscoesdad27
05-02-2011, 11:11 AM
I loved the Von Miller pick at first even thou Dareus is an equal prospect that fills a bigger need. Millers unique skillset parlayed with the depth at d.t. and 2 second round picks made it a potentially very reasonable if not savy move.Then they turn around and inexplicably pass on Austin and Paea!!! That was the mistake, it wasn't the drafting of Miller.

I also feel that Von Miller is best suited in the 4-3 for a couple schematic reasons.

1) With his size Miller wouldn't of been able to set the edge against the run very well against tackles like he would be asked to do in a 3-4. In a 4-3 the d.e.'s mostly have that responsibility and when Miller does have to set the edge it will be against t.e.'s the vast majority of the time which is a MUCH better matchup.

2) At 4-3 olb Von can stack with doom and double blitz from the same side or more traditionally from the opposite side. On passing/dime situations he can stick his hand in the dirt across from doom allowing Ayers to move to u.t. potentially. The skins successfully used Orakpo like this his rookie season before they converted to the 3-4 and Miller is much better suited for this role.

At the end of the day, even thou Miller is perfectly suited for the 4-3, the broncos could only take Von IF and only IF they follow it up by taking a d.t. or 2 in the second round, which they didnt.

K Train
05-02-2011, 11:22 AM
steelers had 3 huge needs....CB, DE, and OL.

mission accomplished

wicket
05-02-2011, 11:24 AM
1) How good of a fit is the player in the current system.
2) How big of a need is the player's position.
3) How much value was obtained in the pick.


So ingram is an F, glad we agree

roscoesdad27
05-02-2011, 11:37 AM
Are u serious with that ravens grade? Nobody jeopardizes the team on our defense, our unparalleled leader affords us the luxury of taking "risks" like this. It has to make a lasting impression on a rookie when u see one of the best players of all times working his ass off from training camp to ota's, the film room and everywhere in between. Suggs had work ethic concerns and so did Ngata...how'd that work out? I understand your concern and rating range on risk players but when it comes to us look at the track record and take into consideration that we have the best defensive leader this game has ever seen.

Rosebud
05-02-2011, 11:44 AM
I loved the Von Miller pick at first even thou Dareus is an equal prospect that fills a bigger need. Millers unique skillset parlayed with the depth at d.t. and 2 second round picks made it a potentially very reasonable if not savy move.Then they turn around and inexplicably pass on Austin and Paea!!! That was the mistake, it wasn't the drafting of Miller.

I also feel that Von Miller is best suited in the 4-3 for a couple schematic reasons.

1) With his size Miller wouldn't of been able to set the edge against the run very well against tackles like he would be asked to do in a 3-4. In a 4-3 the d.e.'s mostly have that responsibility and when Miller does have to set the edge it will be against t.e.'s the vast majority of the time which is a MUCH better matchup.

2) At 4-3 olb Von can stack with doom and double blitz from the same side or more traditionally from the opposite side. On passing/dime situations he can stick his hand in the dirt across from doom allowing Ayers to move to u.t. potentially. The skins successfully used Orakpo like this his rookie season before they converted to the 3-4 and Miller is much better suited for this role.

At the end of the day, even thou Miller is perfectly suited for the 4-3, the broncos could only take Von IF and only IF they follow it up by taking a d.t. or 2 in the second round, which they didnt.

I do kinda agree that Paea should've been their second round pick, but this team was going to be pretty bad next year anyway, if they weren't in love with paea's short arms and Austin's work ethic issues I can't fault them for making the good pick that they did.

Plus whether or not that pick was a mistake does not negate the talent they brought in in Miller. They're starting to get good along the outside of their D. With Ayers having shown life, Doom coming back, Miller coming in, DJ Williams going back to the one position he was actually good at and improving corners, that's a start. Next year they need to find some DTs, then they insert Nate Irving at Mike behind those new DTs and all of a sudden they've got a good young front 7 with a ton of talent going after the QB.

roscoesdad27
05-02-2011, 11:55 AM
I do kinda agree that Paea should've been their second round pick, but this team was going to be pretty bad next year anyway, if they weren't in love with paea's short arms and Austin's work ethic issues I can't fault them for making the good pick that they did.

Plus whether or not that pick was a mistake does not negate the talent they brought in in Miller. They're starting to get good along the outside of their D. With Ayers having shown life, Doom coming back, Miller coming in, DJ Williams going back to the one position he was actually good at and improving corners, that's a start. Next year they need to find some DTs, then they insert Nate Irving at Mike behind those new DTs and all of a sudden they've got a good young front 7 with a ton of talent going after the QB.

If they didnt like Paea or Austin than Dareus shoulda definitely been the pick. I love Miller and feel like Miller/ Austin woulda been the ideal picks but if they did have concerns about Austin and Paea than going Dareus/ Ayers woulda been better than not landing a d.t.

Rosebud
05-02-2011, 11:59 AM
If they didnt like Paea or Austin than Dareus shoulda definitely been the pick. I love Miller and feel like Miller/ Austin woulda been the ideal picks but if they did have concerns about Austin and Paea than going Dareus/ Ayers woulda been better than not landing a d.t.

What if they just like Miller more than Dareus? I know you've stated you feel they were equal caliber of prospects and I wouldn't disagree, but the top of the draft is much more important than the second round, so if they had a preference for Miller, like I personally do since I see Miller becoming a more fluid and roid free Brian Cushing playing behind Robert Ayers, why should they take the guy they like less just because of a much less important pick? Plus I didn't like Akeem Ayers very much myself, what if the Broncos didn't either?

roscoesdad27
05-02-2011, 12:12 PM
What if they just like Miller more than Dareus? I know you've stated you feel they were equal caliber of prospects and I wouldn't disagree, but the top of the draft is much more important than the second round, so if they had a preference for Miller, like I personally do since I see Miller becoming a more fluid and roid free Brian Cushing playing behind Robert Ayers, why should they take the guy they like less just because of a much less important pick? Plus I didn't like Akeem Ayers very much myself, what if the Broncos didn't either?

Because their run defense stinks and they have nothing at d.t.....when is von gonna be able to blitz? It will be 2nd and 6, 3rd and 3 like every drive, they're gonna get mauled. The mistake was not taking Austin or Paea. If they didn't like the second round d.t.'s then passing on Dareus was a huge mistake from a need perspective, not neccasarily from a bpa perspective. Von won't be able to pin his ears back much cause of this, thus dampering his unique talents.

Rosebud
05-02-2011, 03:53 PM
Because their run defense stinks and they have nothing at d.t.....when is von gonna be able to blitz? It will be 2nd and 6, 3rd and 3 like every drive, they're gonna get mauled. The mistake was not taking Austin or Paea. If they didn't like the second round d.t.'s then passing on Dareus was a huge mistake from a need perspective, not neccasarily from a bpa perspective. Von won't be able to pin his ears back much cause of this, thus dampering his unique talents.

Well a) there's still FA, a trade for Fat Albert and signing a guy like Cofield negates this issue, b) they're going to have a high pick next year to when guys like Crick should be available. This isn't a team trying to contend this year so they were going to have holes anyway, why not grab the best players available to them rather than settling for a lesser player at another position of need, since it's not like an Impact LB/pass rusher wasn't a need for them as well.

roscoesdad27
05-02-2011, 04:06 PM
Well a) there's still FA, a trade for Fat Albert and signing a guy like Cofield negates this issue, b) they're going to have a high pick next year to when guys like Crick should be available. This isn't a team trying to contend this year so they were going to have holes anyway, why not grab the best players available to them rather than settling for a lesser player at another position of need, since it's not like an Impact LB/pass rusher wasn't a need for them as well.

They better do something cause we won't be able to see what von can do if they can't stop the run. Just saying that von would be best optimized on a team that can stop the run and force the pass and denver did nothing to help that terrible rush defense, they better get a couple d.t.'s in free agency and Target a guy like Dareus next season if they want von to flourish like we know he can.

RaiderNation
05-02-2011, 04:14 PM
I think this years Raiders class will surprise people similar to last years. Jones was a steal in the 4th and could be the next big play threat similar to what Jacoby Ford has brought to us. Wisniewski is a big upgrade over Satele and will give us stability at Center. Van Dyke and Chekwa are high potential guys, but we really just need one of the two to pan out to be alright since Routt is a very solid starter at the other CB position. Barksdale IMO could develp into a starting caliber guard in the NFL, and fits the mold of the big run blocking olinemen we are looking to add. Moore from Tennessee gives us another type of WR to help our offense and will likely see time at the slot. Overall I do agree this class is more of a high potential class, but I think enough guys will pan out for us to be able to call it a successful draft class

the_dark_knight
05-02-2011, 04:35 PM
Atlanta Falcons - Let's be blunt. The grade of this draft class all depends on how you feel about Julio Jones' ability to be a star in the NFL, and whether or not you believe that mortgaging your future for a single player is a good idea. I don't think that any team is ever "one player away" from a championship because funny things such as injuries and "regression to the mean" happen to teams every year. If you love Julio Jones, and you think the Falcons are locks to win the Super Bowl next year, you'll give them a higher grade, but I am philosophically opposed to mortgaging the farm, even for an already loaded team (which the Falcons actually aren't). C-


So much fail about this post. Giving up 1 future first round pick isn't mortgaging the future.

Falcons are loaded, as proven by our 13-3 record, and undeniable depth as well as representation on the All Pro and Pro Bowl squads. So keep on drinkin that hatorade.

Never once has our front office said we're 1 player away, nor is giving up 4 picks (2 of which are 3rd day picks) mortgaging the future. The FO has already stated that they are coming out after a defensive end, and that they have a plan once free agency starts.

Haters...gunna...hate

Caulibflower
05-02-2011, 04:39 PM
Look, what I'm saying is that Von Miller has the talent to be a great 4-3 OLB, but because he is such a great pass rusher, he's somewhat wasted in that scheme because he doesn't rush the passer as often as he would as a 3-4 OLB.

Pass rushing has more impact on the outcome of the game than simply tackling in space or covering RBs/TEs. Miller will excel at all facets of the game, and will look great as a 4-3 OLB, but he could be even *more* as a 3-4 OLB.

Or they'll let him put his hand on the ground on long third downs, and he and Dumervil will play "last one to the QB is a rotten egg."

The Great Jonathan Vilma
05-02-2011, 05:49 PM
I think the Jets draft is slightly higher than the C, and would go likely in the B- range. I really like the Wilkerson selection and provides solid value at that slot. He is the type of player that fits our positions of need. I believe he has a high ceiling as well.

Ellis will ultimately come down to the legal situation i think. He is a huge man with the size and strength necessary to be the centerpiece of any 3-4 scheme. Those guys don't grow on trees and to get one late 3rd round could be huge for the team. He is very competitive and again fits a position of need. Now lets just hope the legal issue goes away.

I need to see more on Powell to truly comment, but the coaches must have seen something with the intention of replacing LT. I'm not sold on McKnight and him showing up out of shape last year IMO shows his attitude. I hope i'm wrong, but we'll wait and see.

I like getting a slot receiver. Who knows what our situation will be after the gates are opened. Good value pick.

The 7th round selections, you are hit and miss anyway. Getting a smart QB with the intention of being a backup is fine by me. Making Sanchez happy....sure, whatever works.

roscoesdad27
05-02-2011, 06:06 PM
Or they'll let him put his hand on the ground on long third downs, and he and Dumervil will play "last one to the QB is a rotten egg."

I agree, the only problem is gonna be getting a team in third and long. They have no d.t.'s on an already weak run defense. Getting Miller was fine, savvy even, but passing on both Paea and Austin with BOTH second round picks was ritarded. To optimize a talent like Miller you have to force 2nd/3rd and longs, that's not gonna happen often unless they sign a couple above average free agent d.t.'s to help shut down the run.

49erNation85
05-02-2011, 08:50 PM
Sadly I disagree with you intake on CK for SF.Its gonna be a year or so before we see him in the starting spot if that unless he picks up the NFL game really fast.Odds are we bring back A.Smith and maybe pick up a FA QB to help.

Its a hit or miss C average draft grade for me.