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View Full Version : Cam Newton is the Clear Favorite for OROY


Halsey
05-02-2011, 03:22 AM
I just wanted to make sure everyone realizes this. The Panthers have already said he will have a chance to play early. Athletic QBs have a history of making an impact as a rookie:

Vince Young was OROY
Vick make an impact as a rookie
Tebow made an impact as a rookie
Joe Webb made an impact as a rookie
and so on

So why shouldn't Cam be expected to make an early impact? Watch for the Newton bandwagon to start up early in the year. He'll make some highlight plays, have some big games and be featured on Sportscenter a lot. Even if he doesn't have a great career, he'll make some plays as a rookie and get people excited.

FUNBUNCHER
05-02-2011, 03:34 AM
Back in the day rookie RBs owned this award.

If someone like Mark Ingram or Ryan Williams rushes for over 1000 yards and around 10TDs, they're gonna in the mix too.

Regardless of the stats, if any of these rookie QBs leads their teams to the playoffs or a .500 record, it's theirs to lose.

What if AJ Green or JJ put up a borderline pro bowl season at wideout???

NFCS is too competitive to simply declare Cam the OROTY.

AntoinCD
05-02-2011, 04:56 AM
m gonna say Julio Jones. Rookie WRs generally dont have amazing seasons but he is in the absolute ideal situation. An up and coming young QB, a HOF TE, a very good running attack and probably the best WR in the NFL last year all taking attention away from him. And let's be honest, with no disrecpect intended, the NFC South isn't overloaded with great defenses

Wrathman
05-02-2011, 05:06 AM
It will be hard for Newton to be the OROY as a rookie. He'll have index cards taped to every part of his body so he can call the plays that are sent in which will cost him fluidity of movement. I think that will cut into his effectiveness.

Bobertchin
05-02-2011, 06:16 AM
Locker is likely to play too, and he's athletic in his own right. However, I think the OROY will be either Ingram or Julio Jones. Both go into good situations where they could put up numbers as rookies.

wicket
05-02-2011, 06:25 AM
locker will play to and is in a way better situation. The same could be said of dalton.

stephenson86
05-02-2011, 07:29 AM
locker will play to and is in a way better situation. The same could be said of dalton.

Locker is unlikely to start this year, the organization want him to sit behind a vet until he is ready.

stephenson86
05-02-2011, 07:29 AM
Mike LeShoure could be a contender.

roscoesdad27
05-02-2011, 09:28 AM
Kaepernick could have a shot if he can start, fits the running q.b. criteria. D. Thomas could also contend pending on what the phins do at r.b..

Newton and Ingram are the clear favorites thou.

Diehard
05-02-2011, 09:34 AM
If the Saints are committed to running the ball, Ingram should win it fairly easily. The Saints have plenty of weapons to stretch the defense to open things up for their new workhorse.

Splat
05-02-2011, 09:36 AM
I also have to give the edge to Mark Ingram so many weapons around him should free him up to have a solid rookie season.

AntoinCD
05-02-2011, 09:41 AM
I also have to give the edge to Mark Ingram so many weapons around him should free him up to have a solid rookie season.

With the amount the Saints throw it, added to issues with Ingram's knee, added to the depth of players at the position I just dont see Ingram getting enough touches as a rookie to be a real contender. I would be surprised to see Ingram get more than 15 touches a game next year

Caddy
05-02-2011, 09:56 AM
There is a great shot a QB wins the award this year, moreso than usual. Given it wouldn't be odd to see Newton, Gabbert, Locker, Ponder, Dalton and Kaepernick all starting for some period of time.

Scott Wright
05-02-2011, 10:17 AM
Newton could have some initial short-term success just like Vince Young did.

Then NFL defenses and coaches will adjust...

wicket
05-02-2011, 10:24 AM
With the amount the Saints throw it, added to issues with Ingram's knee, added to the depth of players at the position I just dont see Ingram getting enough touches as a rookie to be a real contender. I would be surprised to see Ingram get more than 15 touches a game next year

i think 15 is pushing it and thats exactly why i hated the pick & trade as much as I do. The 24 carries the saints have a game will now be spread out over 4 different running backs, all of whom will get touches.

the_dark_knight
05-02-2011, 10:26 AM
I believe that Christian Ponder is in an amazing situation to become the OROY. He's got an insane running back and a pair of playmaking WRs, a pro bowl TE, and a nice new TE to back that up as well. Ponder should easily have the best rookie season of all QBs drafted. Vikings won't under achieve again.

Homer Pick:
Julio Jones

I know ATL overspent blah blah blah, but this kid has a serious shot at it. It would only take about 8 touchdowns and 750 yards or so to have him in consideration, and if teams leave him 1 on 1, I could see him easily hitting those numbers. He's no Randy Moss, but in this situation he's going to be the #3 or 4 focus of defenses, allowing him to be in some great situations.

AntoinCD
05-02-2011, 10:29 AM
I believe that Christian Ponder is in an amazing situation to become the OROY. He's got an insane running back and a pair of playmaking WRs, a pro bowl TE, and a nice new TE to back that up as well. Ponder should easily have the best rookie season of all QBs drafted. Vikings won't under achieve again.

Homer Pick:
Julio Jones

I know ATL overspent blah blah blah, but this kid has a serious shot at it. It would only take about 8 touchdowns and 750 yards or so to have him in consideration, and if teams leave him 1 on 1, I could see him easily hitting those numbers. He's no Randy Moss, but in this situation he's going to be the #3 or 4 focus of defenses, allowing him to be in some great situations.

If any of the QBs have a good season and bring their franchsies up then they will win it. Last year there was a rookie 1000yd rusher, 1000yd WR, a TE with double digit TDs etc and yet it went to a QB. QB trumps everything if they play well. I just dont trust any of them to do so.

tjsunstein
05-02-2011, 10:32 AM
Based on talent, Newton has the edge but the award does hinge a lot on team success. I'll go with the reach, Christian Ponder.

Saints-Tigers
05-02-2011, 11:20 AM
With the amount the Saints throw it, added to issues with Ingram's knee, added to the depth of players at the position I just dont see Ingram getting enough touches as a rookie to be a real contender. I would be surprised to see Ingram get more than 15 touches a game next year

Exactly. We have 4 legit running threats right now, and we're pass happy. Thomas/Ivory/Bell were the leading guys in carries, but Bush played the most snaps on average every year, he's always on the field it seems.

Cam probably will win, he's a little better than a lot of people give him credit for, the offensive line is going to be healthy again, the backs are still studly, and they are going to win more games than expected, despite not being a real playoff threat.

Monomach
05-02-2011, 01:19 PM
I'm going with Roy Helu. He's a legit full-time back, he's going to be the most talented back on that team, and he's going to Shanny.

Wrathman
05-02-2011, 01:21 PM
Newton will be throwing to LaFell and Gettis ... raw receivers looking to hook up with a raw quarterback. That doesn't sound like a recipe for success to me.

SchizophrenicBatman
05-02-2011, 02:35 PM
If we win 6 games or more the award is Newton's

bitonti
05-02-2011, 02:50 PM
Mike LeShoure could be a contender.

+1 also MIA RB Daniel Thomas is replacing not 1 but 2 high 1st round picks and is in a run heavy system.

agree Newton could win it but don't count out some of these tailbacks

how about Da'Rell Scott the only RB the giants drafted in a year they could lose both jacobs and bradshaw

umphrey
05-02-2011, 02:54 PM
I would have to agree. Even if he isn't that good, he can still pass for 2000 yards an run for 400 just by starting and completing 50% of his passes. That will be enough to trump poor QB rating, interceptions, a rookie running back with a decent season. Julio Jones could put up some numbers since he will probably waltz into the #2 WR role, has Matt Ryan, and Roddy White will take all the attention at least the first 4 games.

SchizophrenicBatman
05-02-2011, 04:55 PM
I would have to agree. Even if he isn't that good, he can still pass for 2000 yards an run for 400 just by starting and completing 50% of his passes. That will be enough to trump poor QB rating, interceptions, a rookie running back with a decent season. Julio Jones could put up some numbers since he will probably waltz into the #2 WR role, has Matt Ryan, and Roddy White will take all the attention at least the first 4 games.

Exactly, as long as no other rookie pulls a Suh and has a MVP-worthy performance next year the award is basically being handed to Cam

All he has to do is win enough games to keep us from picking in the top 5 and make some highlight reel plays. The stats won't matter unless he is Clausen-level terrible

Heisman
05-02-2011, 05:23 PM
I believe that Christian Ponder is in an amazing situation to become the OROY. He's got an insane running back and a pair of playmaking WRs, a pro bowl TE, and a nice new TE to back that up as well. Ponder should easily have the best rookie season of all QBs drafted. Vikings won't under achieve again.

Homer Pick:
Julio Jones

I know ATL overspent blah blah blah, but this kid has a serious shot at it. It would only take about 8 touchdowns and 750 yards or so to have him in consideration, and if teams leave him 1 on 1, I could see him easily hitting those numbers. He's no Randy Moss, but in this situation he's going to be the #3 or 4 focus of defenses, allowing him to be in some great situations.

That's funny, I was going to say that Julio Jones is in an amazing situation to win OROY and that Ponder was going to be my homer pick. Ponder is the most pro-ready of the QB's, and will start right away in an offense with all the right pieces. If he pans out how he should as a prospect, he'll win rookie of the year (again I'm a homer so take it with a grain of salt).

But I do think Daniel Thomas has a chance to contend as a darkhorse.

draftgod
05-04-2011, 01:21 AM
Cam Newton??? Lol. Maybe if Carolina goes number system this year and teams are kind enough to open holes in their defense for him to run through. If not, he's gonna have a hard time reading defenses and throwing the ball at this level.

PossibleCabbage
05-04-2011, 01:38 AM
I hate how offensive linemen are automatically out of the running for OROY. If I had a vote last year, I would have given it to Pouncey or Saffold before I would have given it to Bradford. Why can't we consider Smith, Castonzo, Pouncey II, or Carimi for OROY?

LonghornsLegend
05-04-2011, 02:41 AM
Exactly, as long as no other rookie pulls a Suh and has a MVP-worthy performance next year the award is basically being handed to Cam

All he has to do is win enough games to keep us from picking in the top 5 and make some highlight reel plays. The stats won't matter unless he is Clausen-level terrible

You seem to be under the assumption that Cam Newton is the only QB in the 2011 draft. These comments were laughable. Christian Ponder can easily win the award especially if he starts and takes them to the playoffs, same goes for Jake Locker. Neither would have to have an MVP worthy performance.


Last year there wasn't another QB who could challenge Bradford what so ever, this year there could be up to 5 rookie QB's playing a majority of the season as the starter. Nobody is just gonna hand the award to Cam for playing, that makes no sense.

DecisiveLeaf
05-04-2011, 03:17 AM
He'll win. He'll make the highlight reels by running through some tackles, by juking a couple people, by leading a couple game winning drives, etc. He'll give your franchise hope. You'll buy his jersey. Then 5 years later, he'll throw his shoulder pads into the stands, cuss out the coach, and walk out on his team.

LonghornsLegend
05-04-2011, 03:18 AM
He'll win. He'll make the highlight reels by running through some tackles, by juking a couple people, by leading a couple game winning drives, etc. He'll give your franchise hope. You'll buy his jersey. Then 5 years later, he'll throw his shoulder pads into the stands, cuss out the coach, and walk out on his team.

Yep. You know how every black QB is exactly the same and all so this makes perfect sense. /sarcasm

DecisiveLeaf
05-04-2011, 03:20 AM
Yep. You know how every black QB is exactly the same and all so this makes perfect sense. /sarcasm

Yep, that's what I said. Don't be hypersensitive.

Oh, I forgot. /sarcasm

FootballGod
05-04-2011, 06:56 AM
Ponder or Dalton are in better situations to win and put up better numbers as rookies than Newton.

OhioJB
05-08-2011, 05:39 AM
I have a hard time believing Cam is going to be able to step in and start effectively his rookie year. Not to mention due to the lockout his development will be further hindered. If Carolina's smart they'll sign or trade for a veteran to start this year, and give Cam a year or two to develop.

All rookie QB's need time to develop, but I get the impression it'll take this player longer than average to get him up to speed. And that's one of the reasons why I hated this pick for Carolina at #1 overall. If they handle him right he could turn out to be a top 10 QB in the league eventually, but if rushed he'll be a major disappointment early on.

One thing that would scare me a little if I were a Panthers' fan is the inaccuracy that was displayed, not only at the Combine but in another workout (or practice?) I saw a clip of. I didn't watch much of his play while in college so don't know if that was a problem during games, but if it was nerves that affected him at the Combine, then how nervous will he be during NFL games? Some of those passes were literally ten feet over the receivers' heads as they sailed out of bounds.

Teams continue to insist on pushing QB's much higher than they should be drafted, for fear of missing out on a franchise QB.

This pick could set Carolina back for a couple of years, at least.

FUNBUNCHER
05-08-2011, 11:13 AM
If the lockout extends into the summer, odds are that a RB wins this award.

Rookie QBs need every rep of OTAs and minicamps, and missing even a few practice sessions severely delays their development. IF training camps and the preseason are cut short, I doubt many of the high draft picks at QB even start the season, which favors the RBs.

gpngc
05-08-2011, 02:28 PM
I like Ryan Williams or Daniel Thomas to win it.

As for Newton, I think Clausen will start the season so I'm not sure he'll be able to compete statistically. If Newton does win the job and starts week one, he'd be my pick.

gpngc
05-08-2011, 02:29 PM
I hate how offensive linemen are automatically out of the running for OROY. If I had a vote last year, I would have given it to Pouncey or Saffold before I would have given it to Bradford. Why can't we consider Smith, Castonzo, Pouncey II, or Carimi for OROY?

Little Mike Williams should have won it.

jnew76
05-08-2011, 02:45 PM
I like Greg Salas and Roy Helu as two under the radar players in good situations that could easily win the award.

MassNole
05-08-2011, 04:12 PM
If any QB is going to win the OROY (and I think a RB will FTR), it would be Christian Ponder. He is the only 1st Rounder who played in a Pro Style offense and the only one who had to read defenses and make pre-snap adjustments.

JustDezIT
05-08-2011, 08:03 PM
Demarco Murray = OROTY.

Garret said he's got a real shot to get majoirty of the carries. With an upgraded o line and him being inury free.. watch out.

My prediction.

900 Rushing Yards

550 Receibing Yards

12 total TD's

CrankthatCrabtree
05-08-2011, 08:06 PM
....Are you ******* kidding me?

1440 yards and 12 TDs.

From now on...when you make predictions with numbers....just uh....divide them by 2....or in this casee 4 or 6.

Shane P. Hallam
05-08-2011, 08:10 PM
From the premise of this thread, Locker would be the front-runner. Dual threat QB, Same 40 time as Newton, starter from Day 1, a team that could possibly make the playoffs.

D-Unit
05-08-2011, 08:22 PM
I'm pretty sure Tyron Smith's got OROY locked up. :D

PossibleCabbage
05-08-2011, 08:27 PM
From the premise of this thread, Locker would be the front-runner. Dual threat QB, Same 40 time as Newton, starter from Day 1, a team that could possibly make the playoffs.

Honestly, given that Tennessee plays in the AFC and the AFC South no less, I'd have to put the "dual threat QB for a team who can possibly make the playoffs" crown on Kaepernick, just because the NFC West is so weak and the wild card spots in the NFC are not virtually guaranteed to the North and East runners up like they are in the AFC.

RealityCheck
05-08-2011, 09:47 PM
I'll be heavily surprised if Newton's rating finishes over 3.

SchizophrenicBatman
05-08-2011, 11:01 PM
From the premise of this thread, Locker would be the front-runner. Dual threat QB, Same 40 time as Newton, starter from Day 1, a team that could possibly make the playoffs.

tragic logic

if locker tries to run in the nfl he's going to be sitting on the sidelines concussed

newton will probably get culpepper'd at some point in his career but he's WAAAAY more prepared to run in the pros than locker is

JoeJoeBrown
05-08-2011, 11:56 PM
I think Greg Little will be OROY. I'm not a homer at all.

the natural
05-08-2011, 11:59 PM
The "Clear" or the "Cream" choice? Probably both in the case of the Large Slimy Newt. Along with the HGH that has altered the shape of his head and neck so drastically.

CrankthatCrabtree
05-09-2011, 12:20 AM
The "Clear" or the "Cream" choice? Probably both in the case of the Large Slimy Newt. Along with the HGH that has altered the shape of his head and neck so drastically.

I hear he is also a national socialist who bathes in stem cells, sleeps in piles of dead babies and uses puppies as toilet paper.

the natural
05-09-2011, 12:45 AM
I hear he is also a national socialist who bathes in stem cells, sleeps in piles of dead babies and uses puppies as toilet paper.
I didn't know that, but I can't say I'm surprised.

the natural
05-09-2011, 12:49 AM
If you look at the first pro season of all the top quarterbacks in the league, they either didn't play or had stats not much different from Jimmy Clausen. Clausen got an 8.6 rating from the NFL scouting department a year ago prior to the draft. Newton only got an 8.1 from the same crew this year. That is a fairly significant difference in the perception of those scouts. Plus Clausen has had a year in the system.

Caulibflower
05-09-2011, 01:49 AM
Mmmmm..... nope. It's not that significant. And for what it's worth, that means that crew rating prospects is doing a lousy job. They rate the well-known prospects the highest. That 8.6 Clausen got was included in his Notre Dame scholarship.

Halsey
05-09-2011, 01:54 AM
I don't know what "the NFL scouting department" is, but it's a fact that NFL teams passed Clausen almost 50 times before he was selected, while Newton was never passed on.

MassNole
05-09-2011, 08:07 AM
I don't know what "the NFL scouting department" is, but it's a fact that NFL teams passed Clausen almost 50 times before he was selected, while Newton was never passed on.

By the same logic any first pick who was a bust was never passed on, like say Jamarcus Russell or Ki-Jana Carter. Doesn't mean other teams wouldn't have passed on them if given the chance.

bucfan12
05-09-2011, 08:17 AM
I have no doubt in my mind that Newton can make an impact as a rookie. However, so did Vince Young, but with his legs he did it.

Newton can make that same impact, but remember, defenses figured out Young and Young could never react or read defenses and could not throw the ball. That is where I think Newton won't be successful in the NFL. He never made any type of NFL throws at Auburn. Sure, he's got a big time arm, but I never saw throws where he fit them into tight windows. They simplified the offense and the throws were quite easy to make.

He can catch defenses off guard at first with his athleticism and speed, and especially with the new 'QB' rules the NFL has in place. But eventually he's going to have to be an NFL QB and make the throws.

AMERICAN MUSCLE
05-09-2011, 12:25 PM
New coach, new scheme, no #1 wr if Smith gets his wish, a shortened off-season... The odds are stacked against him. Sure, he has a good/great running game over there (when healthy) assuming DeAngelo Williams re-signs, but I don't see it happening. Carolina is a wreck right now. He wants to be elsewhere.

the natural
05-09-2011, 01:07 PM
What is with that chemically jacked p.o.s. walking in and saying he owns a veteran's sweater number? PED HEAD Newton will go into camp expecting the vets to carry his pads for him so he can properly display the Under Armour gear on his pharmaceutical physique.

niel89
05-09-2011, 06:29 PM
What is with that chemically jacked p.o.s. walking in and saying he owns a veteran's sweater number? PED HEAD Newton will go into camp expecting the vets to carry his pads for him so he can properly display the Under Armour gear on his pharmaceutical physique.

Do you have any evidence of this other that "zomg look at him!" ? Its annoying that you just runn around claiming this with no factual basis.

I agree that Cam has some entitlement issue imo. I shouldn't be a huge issue but he is gonna be in for a shock.

batsandgats
05-09-2011, 07:29 PM
tragic logic

if locker tries to run in the nfl he's going to be sitting on the sidelines concussed

newton will probably get culpepper'd at some point in his career but he's WAAAAY more prepared to run in the pros than locker is

how is a 6'2 - 6'3 230-235 pounder going to get concussed if he tries to run? how is that any different than a runningback like Eddie George who was 6'3 around the same weight? Id say his knees are more prone to injury than his head. How is Newton more "prepared" to run in the NFL than Locker? Why are some quarterbacks treated like they are glass when it comes to getting hit when others are considered men of steal......

They said the same thing about Tebow last year, he got hit in the ribs in preseason and learned to adjust his game, and was the 2nd leading rusher on the team last year, with over 5 ypc. I don't see Locker being any different.

Newton started for one year against real defenses, there is no way to tell how his body would hold up in the NFL. He took a pretty bad hit to the head in the 4th quarter against Oregon and then looked confused afterwards, missing 7 of 9 passes and fumbled the ball the following 20 minutes after that hit. Locker also took a hit to the head in his bowl game, one that looked a little more brutal, but came back to play. I don't see how one is WAAYYYY more prepared to run in the NFL. Newton also had a back injury treated after game, even if his back checked out as fine, back problems can linger, its hard to diagnose if a back is 100 percent.

J-Mike88
05-09-2011, 10:47 PM
To the topic of this thread: FALSE

FUNBUNCHER
05-10-2011, 12:25 AM
I have no doubt in my mind that Newton can make an impact as a rookie. However, so did Vince Young, but with his legs he did it.

Newton can make that same impact, but remember, defenses figured out Young and Young could never react or read defenses and could not throw the ball. That is where I think Newton won't be successful in the NFL. He never made any type of NFL throws at Auburn. Sure, he's got a big time arm, but I never saw throws where he fit them into tight windows. They simplified the offense and the throws were quite easy to make.

He can catch defenses off guard at first with his athleticism and speed, and especially with the new 'QB' rules the NFL has in place. But eventually he's going to have to be an NFL QB and make the throws.

Did you even watch the game against Alabama last season?? The Tide took away his run option and dared Cam to beat them with his arm. So that's what he did.
I'd venture to guess Newton made at least between one and three NFL difficulty throws a game where he either had to hit a moving target or beat coverage with his arm.

All rookie QBs have the same hurdles to overcome, in that playing QB in college has very little to do with playing the position in the NFL.

Whether Cam achieves his potential or not at this point is up to him, it's not about some innate deficit he possesses or lack of physical talent.

FUNBUNCHER
05-10-2011, 12:32 AM
What is with that chemically jacked p.o.s. walking in and saying he owns a veteran's sweater number? PED HEAD Newton will go into camp expecting the vets to carry his pads for him so he can properly display the Under Armour gear on his pharmaceutical physique.

Not one scintilla of any evidence, you can't even make a circumstantial visual case to support this argument. Cam left HS at a weight of over 230#, doubtful he juiced because there was never really a need at his position.


BTW, not to 'jack this thread, but if the NFL owners are successful in negotiating to allow the World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA) to do the league's drug testing, be prepared to see lineman and LBs miraculously lose on average 20-40# per, and NFL players begin to look like they did in the early to mid 1980s.

Part of me hopes this does happen, part of me doesn't.

CashmoneyDrew
05-10-2011, 12:40 AM
Do you have any evidence of this other that "zomg look at him!" ? Its annoying that you just runn around claiming this with no factual basis.

I agree that Cam has some entitlement issue imo. I shouldn't be a huge issue but he is gonna be in for a shock.

He's just a troll. Backing up his ridiculous claims and opinions with any evidence is not even on his to-do list.

SchizophrenicBatman
05-10-2011, 01:44 AM
how is a 6'2 - 6'3 230-235 pounder going to get concussed if he tries to run? how is that any different than a runningback like Eddie George who was 6'3 around the same weight? Id say his knees are more prone to injury than his head. How is Newton more "prepared" to run in the NFL than Locker? Why are some quarterbacks treated like they are glass when it comes to getting hit when others are considered men of steal......


have you seen how locker and gabbert run? it has nothing to with their height or any other physical characteristic

it has to do with how they run. theyre straight line guys who charge forward and then when contact comes duck their head down. in fairness, gabbert is WAY worse than locker at this but locker is still bad

eddie george ran on every play, he figured out how to protect himself. newton ran enough at auburn to get an idea and seems to have taken steps towards protecting himself. like 2 games into the year he stopped trying to plow through people like tebow and started falling forward (which makes him more prone to injury than guys who slide but he's a running qb, what do you expect?). in fairness, you cant really say newton is super agile or anything but he's a long strider who lessens the damage of hits by not taking them full on all the time. he did pick up a knock and got worn down against oregon, fwiw, and for that reason...

...i AM worried about newton getting injured over his career. not as much next year, since he's still young without a ton of wear+tear and teams won't know what to expect like vince young. although it just takes one play so you never know

that post was originally in response to someone saying locker could run as well as newton in the nfl because of his 40 time, which is ridiculous. brady quinn really lit it up as a dual threat qb, huh? and i guess josh freeman is a statue

Caulibflower
05-10-2011, 03:38 AM
i'm not defending the original statement, because i didn't read it,

Hilarious.

but the idea that size and weight will prevent concussions is frankly ridiculous and has no basis whatsoever in reality. a concussion is caused when your brain bounces against your skull. there's no correlation or connection between the incidence of that happening and your body weight. period.

But I beg to differ. When you're talking about someone's brain bouncing against their skull, you have to take into account the support structure. Some guy who's got a thick neck and a massive body isn't going to be subjected to the same kind of trauma as a smaller player. A strong neck and shoulders can absorb some of that impact, and avoid some of the whiplash effect. If it's a matter of two unconnected heads baning into each other, yeah, the bouncing brains might look pretty similar, but if you line up Cam Newton across from Dexter McCluster and tell them to make like mountain goats, you can bet McCluster's going to get the worse end of it. From certain angles, you can think of the nearest muscles as shock absorbers; body size (weight, mostly) is going to be indicative of that.

MidwestJimmy
05-10-2011, 09:07 AM
If Newton has any kind of decent season at all, they will give him the O-rookie award because of the hype surrounding him since midway through last season.

Halsey
05-10-2011, 09:15 AM
If Newton has any kind of decent season at all, they will give him the O-rookie award because of the hype surrounding him since midway through last season.

Yeah, Newton is all hype. When is the guy going to do something on the football field!?

Nalej
05-10-2011, 09:26 AM
or maybe the hype is from his production on the field?
I don't associate "hype" as a negative term until you say the guy is "all hype"

the natural
05-10-2011, 10:57 AM
Not one scintilla of any evidence, you can't even make a circumstantial visual case to support this argument. Cam left HS at a weight of over 230#, doubtful he juiced because there was never really a need at his position.


BTW, not to 'jack this thread, but if the NFL owners are successful in negotiating to allow the World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA) to do the league's drug testing, be prepared to see lineman and LBs miraculously lose on average 20-40# per, and NFL players begin to look like they did in the early to mid 1980s.

Part of me hopes this does happen, part of me doesn't.

According to Scout Inc. The Large Slimy Newt was 225 at their combine out of H.S. That was the only verified weight I could find. But he was obviously chubby at the time and ran a verified 4.75 40. From looking at his face (which definitely looked different then) he looked like he had about 15% body fat. Gabbert at the same combine a year later was 226 pounds and ran a verified 4.6 40. Fast forward and Short Cut Cheater is (according to his coach) "over 260 pounds with less than 6% body fat" in San Diego prior to NFL Combine. Look at his head now. Massive jaw, prominent cheekbones, ridge at base of forward, neck as thick as his head, no eyeglasses anymore.

Then due to drug testing at Combine, he goes off the cycle and shows up at Combine at 248. But still shaves .2 seconds from his H.S. 40 time when he was 30 pounds lighter. Papa Cecil was on the fringes of the NFL for a few years, so he knows the routine. Like Mark Ingram and his father. Both of them have been chemically jacked up by their fathers since they were in grade school.

the_dark_knight
05-10-2011, 11:04 AM
Newton has gotten a lot of press, therefore a lot of attention, both positive and negative. He persevered through the pressures of college, and the media, and was able to shine as the best player in college football, not to mention his personality is friggin electric. I don't want to like Newton, I don't like his college, I don't like his NFL home either, but the kid's got a million dollar smile and just seems like one of those guys to rally around.

I don't care how awful Carolina is, he's going to have them playing unified at least. Does he have what it takes to be a big time NFL QB? I'm not sure, but I'm rooting for no, since I'm a Falcons fan, we like having those 2 easy games on our schedule every year, but if he can live up to his hype, and potential, talk about a freak.

That being said, as a rookie I don't expect much from him, because his supporting cast is pure garbage. There isn't a single threat on that offense if they lose their RBs in free agency, and Steve walks. They will just get massacred, and you can't win OROY when you're the QB for the worst team in the NFL.

I'd have to toss my name in the Ryan Williams hat at this point. Either that or the Julio Jones hat. Only reason I bring Julio into it, is yes he has the skills (but so do a lot of guys in the draft) but he landed on the best team fit for him in the NFL. He couldn't have hand picked a better landing spot, with all the other weapons on that team he'll be overlooked and left in 1 on 1 a lot, and I see him making some big plays and getting a lot of attention, because he's playing on a team, that if they're healthy, has a chance to win 12+ games this year. So he will get a lot of press because of that, so if his production is solid (700+ yards and 6-7 TDs) on a 'run first' team in Atlanta, as long as a few of those are explosive 40+ yard touchdowns, he'll be getting praised.

With the shortened offseasons in the NFL, I can see a guy like a RB making the most impact, and that's why I think Ryan Williams is going to be a big name. No, he didn't go first, no he didn't win the Heisman, but Ingram landed in New Orleans, amongst a stable of backs where he's going to get maybe 25-35% of the carries. So that will hurt him, where as Ryan Williams will likely be a guy getting 60%+ of the carries, and with his ability, he'll be putting up somewhere in the neighborhood of 800-1000 yards with 7-10 touchdowns, and that's going to be a big help for him too.

the_dark_knight
05-10-2011, 11:08 AM
According to Scout Inc. The Large Slimy Newt was 225 at their combine out of H.S. That was the only verified weight I could find. But he was obviously chubby at the time and ran a verified 4.75 40. From looking at his face (which definitely looked different then) he looked like he had about 15% body fat. Gabbert at the same combine a year later was 226 pounds and ran a verified 4.6 40. Fast forward and Short Cut Cheater is (according to his coach) "over 260 pounds with less than 6% body fat" in San Diego prior to NFL Combine. Look at his head now. Massive jaw, prominent cheekbones, ridge at base of forward, neck as thick as his head, no eyeglasses anymore.

Then due to drug testing at Combine, he goes off the cycle and shows up at Combine at 248. But still shaves .2 seconds from his H.S. 40 time when he was 30 pounds lighter. Papa Cecil was on the fringes of the NFL for a few years, so he knows the routine. Like Mark Ingram and his father. Both of them have been chemically jacked up by their fathers since they were in grade school.

Okay, while you have valid points, there's also this thing called Puberty, some guys hit later than others, there's also this thing called Division 1 College Weight Training Programs. We all know his dad had money to pay for him to have a personal trainer too. While it seems like a likely scenario for him to have juiced, at the same time, it's not like he went all Barry Bonds and gained 35 pounds of muscle in 1 year, at the age of 35 none the less.

Should prolly just drop your vendetta, we'll see how it shakes out on Sundays, and if we get HGH testing, even sooner.

the natural
05-10-2011, 01:14 PM
have you seen how locker and gabbert run? it has nothing to with their height or any other physical characteristic

it has to do with how they run. theyre straight line guys who charge forward and then when contact comes duck their head down. in fairness, gabbert is WAY worse than locker at this but locker is still bad

Gabbert never missed a game in college. You make it sound like he was getting his bell rung every game. The only time I saw him take a head shot was against Nebraska, but he was dropping back to pass and the blitzing safety went high on him. He never missed a play.

the natural
05-10-2011, 01:17 PM
Okay, while you have valid points, there's also this thing called Puberty, some guys hit later than others, there's also this thing called Division 1 College Weight Training Programs. We all know his dad had money to pay for him to have a personal trainer too. While it seems like a likely scenario for him to have juiced, at the same time, it's not like he went all Barry Bonds and gained 35 pounds of muscle in 1 year, at the age of 35 none the less.

Should prolly just drop your vendetta, we'll see how it shakes out on Sundays, and if we get HGH testing, even sooner.

The Newtons have a history of taking shortcuts and cheating the system. I can't imagine they would overlook the most obvious way to do it. It's not like Cam was ever a gym rat like Tebow. Still he gained more weight and muscle than Tebow from high school to college. Take a look at Newton's head in the picture above and look at it now. That is not a natural process.

regoob2
05-10-2011, 01:17 PM
Its Mark Ingrams to lose imo.

FUNBUNCHER
05-10-2011, 03:04 PM
According to Scout Inc. The Large Slimy Newt was 225 at their combine out of H.S. That was the only verified weight I could find. But he was obviously chubby at the time and ran a verified 4.75 40. From looking at his face (which definitely looked different then) he looked like he had about 15% body fat. Gabbert at the same combine a year later was 226 pounds and ran a verified 4.6 40. Fast forward and Short Cut Cheater is (according to his coach) "over 260 pounds with less than 6% body fat" in San Diego prior to NFL Combine. Look at his head now. Massive jaw, prominent cheekbones, ridge at base of forward, neck as thick as his head, no eyeglasses anymore.

Then due to drug testing at Combine, he goes off the cycle and shows up at Combine at 248. But still shaves .2 seconds from his H.S. 40 time when he was 30 pounds lighter. Papa Cecil was on the fringes of the NFL for a few years, so he knows the routine. Like Mark Ingram and his father. Both of them have been chemically jacked up by their fathers since they were in grade school.


Last time I'm going to say this; Newton participated in that HS combine as a HIGH SCHOOL JUNIOR TO BE.

By the time he finished playing his senior year of HS Cam weighed in excess of 230#.

Newton has NEVER been 'chubby' as a prep, never had 15% bodyfat. You don't have a six pack with 15% bodyfat.
He's always been a lean kid who simply grew into his frame over time.

Gabbert is the lazy ass....in the weight room.

Here's a link to Rivals after Cam completed his senior year.

http://dallasnews.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?pr_key=41356&Sport=1

Notice his weight. Notice his reported 40 time.
Check out his photos. The dude gained 15# in college. Big deal.

the natural
05-10-2011, 04:31 PM
Last time I'm going to say this; Newton participated in that HS combine as a HIGH SCHOOL JUNIOR TO BE.

By the time he finished playing his senior year of HS Cam weighed in excess of 230#.

Newton has NEVER been 'chubby' as a prep, never had 15% bodyfat. You don't have a six pack with 15% bodyfat.
He's always been a lean kid who simply grew into his frame over time.

Gabbert is the lazy ass....in the weight room.

Here's a link to Rivals after Cam completed his senior year.

http://dallasnews.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?pr_key=41356&Sport=1

Notice his weight. Notice his reported 40 time.
Check out his photos. The dude gained 15# in college. Big deal.

The Scout numbers were recorded. Under the same conditions for all players. PED HEAD ran a VERIFIED electronically measured 4.75 there. At 225 pounds. I can estimate my own 40 time as 4.51 as well. That doesn't make it true. Did you see the pictures of him at his media workout? Looks like something from the Pleistocene Era. Cheaters and frauds are despicable, and their behavious should not be enabled and rewarded. Newton and Ingram are two of the most obvious drug cheaters to come on the scene in years and they're having statues built for them on campus. It demeens the game and all of sport.

the_dark_knight
05-10-2011, 04:46 PM
Its Mark Ingrams to lose imo.

Sharing carries with 3 backs = not a chance in this world.

Caulibflower
05-11-2011, 03:51 AM
Sharing carries with 3 backs = not a chance in this world.

Replacing 3 backs by himself = a very real chance. He does everything Pierre Thomas and Chris Ivory can do, and it doesn't really matter if he can do what Reggie Bush can do, because Reggie Bush is a mostly ineffective runner.

the_dark_knight
05-11-2011, 07:54 AM
Replacing 3 backs by himself = a very real chance. He does everything Pierre Thomas and Chris Ivory can do, and it doesn't really matter if he can do what Reggie Bush can do, because Reggie Bush is a mostly ineffective runner.

He's not going to replace anyone, that's the problem. Saints coach just stockpiles, there was no good reason to take Ingram in the first, no reason to trade away next year's first for him. He wasn't even the best back on his team last year, if you want to do something like that, wait until next year and give up the following year's first to move up to get Richardson.

That being said I'm glad they didn't do that, cause he'd actually be kinda scary, Ingram isn't scary to me at all. Ron Dayne 2.0. Going to be interesting to see how it works out, but I see no chance of the Saints plugging Ingram in as a full time starter, he's going to be sharing the carries heavily. They loved Ivory, and Ingram just doesn't have the same tenacity that Thomas does.

regoob2
05-11-2011, 08:40 AM
Sharing carries with 3 backs = not a chance in this world.
He'll get the most carries.

FUNBUNCHER
05-11-2011, 12:52 PM
He's not going to replace anyone, that's the problem. Saints coach just stockpiles, there was no good reason to take Ingram in the first, no reason to trade away next year's first for him. He wasn't even the best back on his team last year, if you want to do something like that, wait until next year and give up the following year's first to move up to get Richardson.

That being said I'm glad they didn't do that, cause he'd actually be kinda scary, Ingram isn't scary to me at all. Ron Dayne 2.0. Going to be interesting to see how it works out, but I see no chance of the Saints plugging Ingram in as a full time starter, he's going to be sharing the carries heavily. They loved Ivory, and Ingram just doesn't have the same tenacity that Thomas does.
Ingram is not Ron Dayne. Ingram initiates contact, he doesn't run from it.

Ron Dayne was a 5'10, 250# tailback, his lateral quickness was nowhere near Mark Ingram's.

The Saints didn't draft Ingram in the first round to platoon him IMO. If he demonstrates it during TC, I don't think Payton has any issues about naming Ingram the starter and giving him 15-20+ carries a game.

If Ingram is the second coming of Ron Dayne, then he's a future bust, in which case he was a bad pick for the Saints.

If instead Ingram is a 1250-1500+ yd RB, he's the missing piece for another SB run.

I think Saints fans will realize soon that Mark Ingram is several steps up over Pierre Thomas and Ivory, no matter how physically similar they all appear to be.

SRK85
05-13-2011, 01:33 AM
OROY really? If Cam starts at QB this season I guarantee he will be picked apart, especially since he will have to face NFC south teams a lot. My money is on Julio Jones or Titus Young.

ellsy82
05-13-2011, 01:47 AM
I haven't posted on this thread yet because I believe a rookie's first year will be nothingness by the second year...Especially with the lockout. But if I had to pick one player...It'd be Lance Kendricks. I think he'll have a "Tony Moeaki" type performance, hopefully without the injuries.

I think St. Louis is the perfect place for a guy like that. Give Bradford a weapon...well done, St. Louis.

TACKLE
05-13-2011, 08:55 PM
OROY really? If Cam starts at QB this season I guarantee he will be picked apart, especially since he will have to face NFC south teams a lot. My money is on Julio Jones or Titus Young.

But all the defenses in the NFC South are very average.

etk
05-15-2011, 06:06 PM
Unfortunately I think Ingram will win it.

^TACKLE is right.

countryboi
05-15-2011, 08:05 PM
the only way ingram wins is if thomas gets hurt....while i think ingram is the better player thomas knows the system and is a baller in his own right

GaMeTiMe
05-15-2011, 10:38 PM
Daniel Thomas?

J-Mike88
05-16-2011, 11:10 PM
Its Mark Ingrams to lose imo.
If he's THE MAN to start the season, yep it is.... and then the only way he'd lose it is if he gets injured.