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View Full Version : Vontaze Burfict, ILB, Arizona St.


ChiefMojo
05-02-2011, 07:13 PM
What do you guys think of Vontaze (Arizona State) when it comes to the 2012 NFL Draft? One would expect him to go very early in the 1st round as they guy is a athletic marvel and a physical beast!

With that said, one has to wonder if he is very similar to Lavar Arrington in the fact once he gets into the NFL they will try to reign him in? He seems to go for the kill shot a lot and teams and the NFL in general probably won't be to keen on that. Not only due to safety reasons, but the sake of his own pockets and possibly getting outside the grand scheme of the defense.

Do you guys think this is a legit worry or does his athletic/physical/production talents out weigh the concern?

bored of education
05-02-2011, 07:14 PM
A special prospect. His tenacity on the field is unreal, he goes balls to the wall, he actually can diagnose plays, he does not over pursue. I dont know what is wrong with his game, well he is a headcase..but that is a good thing

ChiefMojo
05-02-2011, 07:16 PM
Everything you said is true, but the possible headcase aspect probably goes hand and hand with his beastly nature. He plays one way... GO!

JustDezIT
05-02-2011, 07:20 PM
He's an incredible player, but a little ****** in the head.

fenikz
05-02-2011, 07:25 PM
I met him once had huge entourage, but he doesn't drink or smoke and is all intensity all the time. His on the field problems are overblown, besides the incident at Washington State(I think) where he head butted a player he really hasn't deserved the penalties he has gotten. Plenty of times it seems like refs are entirely going out of their way to flag him for very legal hits.

roscoesdad27
05-02-2011, 07:25 PM
LOVE him, my #1 guy early on....got a little Ray Ray in him.

ElectricEye
05-02-2011, 07:31 PM
Closest thing to Ray Lewis we're ever going to find. Nastiness personified on the field and one of those rare ILB's who you can just build a defense around. Excellent all around athlete with a fantastic build too. True tone setter in every sense of the word with all the devastating blows he's able to deliver on the football field. I'm interested in seeing his ability to play within the context of a scheme, but aside from that this guy is pure money in the bank, even at this point. As roscoesdad said, he's an early candidate to be the top overall prospect next year even though he's only played two years, kind of like Peterson was this year.

FUNBUNCHER
05-02-2011, 07:33 PM
Tackle numbers don't show the production I would expect from so highly regarded a prospect, can't really explain that.

But if Burfict tests well and blows up in 2011, he looks like a first round Mike, which is kinda rare nowadays.

ChiefMojo
05-02-2011, 07:37 PM
Who was the last first round MIKE??? McClain?

descendency
05-02-2011, 07:40 PM
If he plays up to his talent, top 10.

OSUGiants17
05-02-2011, 07:43 PM
He plays with so much fury and tenacity out there. He just doesn't stop going. He is the most energetic and intense player I have watched at the college level ever. He is considered a head-case because he is all pure raw emotion and acts off that emotion a little too much sometimes. I have never seen a player that can literally jump past an opposing OL to get into the backfield and make the tackle. His ability to rush off the edge, read plays to stop the run, rush up the middle is unreal and his coverage isn't weak either. This kid reminds me a lot of Ray Lewis with his emotion and love for the game and his skills are insane to go with that great emotion and non-stop motor.

ElectricEye
05-02-2011, 07:45 PM
Tackle numbers

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/__-pMfc8Cl9U/TD2a5srbEpI/AAAAAAAAELQ/oduPptzG_Kg/s1600/girls%20laughing.jpg

dannyz
05-02-2011, 07:45 PM
Probably the best LB Prospect since Patrick Willis.

fenikz
05-02-2011, 08:12 PM
he is a better prospect than Willis imo. Prob have to go all the back to 2000 with LaVar Arrington to find a better prospect, and idk if he will even be considered better at the end of the day. Remember these last 2 season have been his true Fr. & So. years very rarely do any players make this type of impact let alone middle linebackers.

and as for his tackle stats while it's a irrelevant stat he was getting robbed, myself and boe both believe that he had around 20 tackles in the Arizona game and he credited with only 7

A perfect landing place for him would be Cleveland imo, behind Phil Taylor & Ahtyba Rubin he could put up some stupidly insane numbers

OSUGiants17
05-02-2011, 08:18 PM
fenikz hit the nail on the head, he is a special talent at a young age and a position where it is rare to find that ability. Because he plays with so much emotion though he has "character concerns" and may never be seen as the better prospect. He also doesn't have the stats, but the skill and intensity is still there. Simply put, he is a man among boys in college football and is only in his true Jr. year. He could go pro now if you ask me. The kid can flat out play. He is a real difference maker that you must account for on defense which is rare for a MIKE.

Complex
05-02-2011, 08:24 PM
Future Titan

ElectricEye
05-02-2011, 08:26 PM
There's very few linebackers you can put as the center piece of the defense and build around like a quarterback. Ray Lewis and Patrick Willis are two prominent ones. Brian Urlacher has played up to that level at times as well at different points in his career. Burfict is that kind of guy in my opinion and that's absolutely special like you guys said. He can legitimately effect a game with his presence.

OSUGiants17
05-02-2011, 08:30 PM
There's very few linebackers you can put as the center piece of the defense and build around like a quarterback. Ray Lewis and Patrick Willis are two prominent ones. Brian Urlacher has played up to that level at times as well at different points in his career. Burfict is that kind of guy in my opinion and that's absolutely special like you guys said. He can legitimately effect a game with his presence.

I feel like Luke Kuechly is the same way, but he won't be nearly as talked about because of Burfict. Kuechly is a tackling machine and is similar to Urlacher and could be the leader of a defense that you build around.

ElectricEye
05-02-2011, 08:32 PM
Kuechly is special too and a guy I love to watch every week. He's not the physical monster than Burfict is though, and you're right...he probably won't get his due because of it. I would still like to see him add some weight and get stronger, but he gets to the ball like he's shot out of a cannon and has this weird ability to drift around traffic and get in the play. If I'm being completely honest, I'm not sure how he ends up being perceived. I don't think he's a pure James Laurinaitis type, but I'm not ready to put him in that category we're talking about quite yet either.

roscoesdad27
05-02-2011, 08:35 PM
I feel like Luke Kuechly is the same way, but he won't be nearly as talked about because of Burfict. Kuechly is a tackling machine and is similar to Urlacher and could be the leader of a defense that you build around.

He's an absolute beast as well, in my top 10 overall for sure.

OSUGiants17
05-02-2011, 08:36 PM
Kuechly is special too and a guy I love to watch every week. He's not the physical monster than Burfict is though, and you're right...he probably won't get his due because of it. I would still like to see him add some weight and get stronger, but he gets to the ball like he's shot out of a cannon and has this weird ability to drift around traffic and get in the play.

He isn't as physical because Burfict is just a bigger build(who still hasn't maxed out which makes him even scarier), but he is just always near the ball carrier getting in on the tackle and always finds his way to the perfect spot at the perfect time. If Kuechly adds some bulk and keeps his speed he is a top 15 talent, he is already a first round talent, but he needs to bulk up a tiny bit.

OSUGiants17
05-02-2011, 08:36 PM
He's an absolute beast as well, in my top 10 overall for sure.

He may be in our top ten, but not everyone else's sadly.

ElectricEye
05-02-2011, 08:40 PM
I see him as a guy with that type of potential for sure. His instincts, agility, and end to end speed are top notch. All I'm trying to see is that he might be a little closer to Jerod Mayo than he is to Patrick Willis. I well could be wrong though, would love to see him come in and play with an extra ten to fifteen pounds of muscle.

OSUGiants17
05-02-2011, 08:41 PM
I see him as a guy with that type of potential for sure. His instincts, agility, and end to end speed are top notch. All I'm trying to see is that he might be a little closer to Jerod Mayo than he is to Patrick Willis. I well could be wrong though, would love to see him come in and play with an extra ten to fifteen pounds of muscle.

You talking about Kuechly or Burfict? Lol

roscoesdad27
05-02-2011, 08:41 PM
A perfect landing place for him would be Cleveland imo, behind Phil Taylor & Ahtyba Rubin he could put up some stupidly insane numbers

That would be insane, 2000 ravens baby!!!

But that would pale in comparison to if he somehow went to the ravens to play with ray....how sick would that be?

ElectricEye
05-02-2011, 08:42 PM
Kuechly sir.

prock
05-02-2011, 08:42 PM
I think it is obviously Kuechly, since Burfict is about as flawless of a prospect as I think you will find.

OSUGiants17
05-02-2011, 08:46 PM
Haha ight had to make sure. I agree though, my two main issues with Kuechly are his weight/bulk/size and physical play, but if he fixes one and adds about 10-15lbs the other will fix itself and he will be a top 15 talent on everyones board.

Complex
05-02-2011, 08:52 PM
Where does Dont'a Hightowe rank?

ElectricEye
05-02-2011, 08:53 PM
Where does Dont'a Hightowe rank?

Well below those two. I've heard some early buzz from scouts that Hightower is fairly overrated.

OSUGiants17
05-02-2011, 08:55 PM
A little off topic, but I would love to see either of these two step in as the Giants MIKE. Burfict would do great with our blitz packages and his athleticism and abilit to read plays and just shut down offenses. Plug him in with Tuck, Osi, JPP, Joseph and Austin. Kuechly would finally be that guy we need at MIKE with his ability to fly all over the field and manage to end up involved in every tackle.

OSUGiants17
05-02-2011, 09:00 PM
Where does Dont'a Hightowe rank?

2nd or 3rd best LB on his own team behind Courtney Upshaw and Nico Johnson. Manti Te'o is the number 3 LB in this class IMO, with Tank Carder following him and Zach Brown rounding out the top 5. Not to mention he still has Travis Lewis, Upshaw, Lavonte David, Sean Spence and Emmanuel Acho above him as well. I feel he has been vastly overrated.

ElectricEye
05-02-2011, 09:08 PM
Skov is another guy I absolutely love right now. One of the real leaders on that Stanford defense and a nasty hitter in his own right. Really like how he plays downhill and fights through the blocks.

niel89
05-02-2011, 09:09 PM
Burfict has scary good ability. The only team that really handled Stanfords running game well was ASU and he was just dominant that day. He needs to work on controlling his emotions sometime though. He had a very costly personal foul (I think for mouthing off to the ref) that had a direct effect on his team losing the game. He going to make some team very happy.

OSUGiants17
05-02-2011, 09:13 PM
Skov is another guy I absolutely love right now. One of the real leaders on that Stanford defense and a nasty hitter in his own right. Really like how he plays downhill and fights through the blocks.

Shot can't believe I forgot him. I love Skov too. I always feel like I'm forgetting a player in this LB class because it's just that stacked. Skov is #4 in this class fighting with Te'o for 3.

roscoesdad27
05-02-2011, 09:23 PM
Where does Dont'a Hightowe rank?

3-4 ted/thumper only, doesn't have the fluidity or instincts to play 4-3 mlb or 3-4 mike/feature imho.

ElectricEye
05-02-2011, 09:23 PM
I'm amazed at the physical progression Te'o has made since coming to Notre Dame. He came in with a mans body already and gained almost 40 pounds on top of it. In spite of that, he's probably the linebacker I'm least sure of my feelings about right now. I really need to see some more of him.

WMD
05-02-2011, 11:55 PM
A perfect landing place for him would be Detroit imo, behind Ndamukong Suh & Nick Fairley he could put up some stupidly insane numbers

It'll happen one way or another.

Saints-Tigers
05-03-2011, 12:39 AM
Hopefully he stays for his senior season, or the Saints trade back into the first :)

Do want.

BigBanger
05-03-2011, 01:08 AM
Burfict wont be a first round pick, and if he is, it'll be based all on potential. I have no idea what is going on in this thread. The kid from BC is far superior. #40, someone mentioned him but I'm too lazy to look it up and it's hard to pronounce, but he has much better instincts, a much better motor and plays sideline-to-sideline. Also much smarter with better instincts and technique. Lacks the size, strength and physicality of Burfict though and struggles at times disengaging from blockers. Not as much upside or potential.

and as for his tackle stats while it's a irrelevant stat he was getting robbed, myself and boe both believe that he had around 20 tackles in the Arizona game and he credited with only 7
I took notes on this game. Foles was getting a ton of hype and Burfict flashed as a freshman. I credited him with 9 tackles in the game, but not anywhere close 20.

Negatives:

- Looks lazy on the field and plays slow
- Really bad motor, quits on plays away from him
- Missed numerous tackles (5) and plays put of control
- Very wild, drops his head and doesn't keep his eyes up
- Doesn't wrap up and a lot of times wont take ball carrier to the ground
- Plays upright
- Looks mediocre in space
- Straight line player, all downhill
- Would come out of zone coverage and rush towards the QB when QB scrambled, creating voids: undisciplined
- Blew coverage on game tying TD (see previous negative)
- Did not show much instincts in coverage
- Showed no feeling (or awareness) of receivers behind him
- Tap dancer who didn't trust his eyes
- Didn't disengage from blockers, lacks technique
- Most of the tackles he made were when he was free and unblocked
- Chippy play after the whistle
- Incredibly raw
- Looks like he's playing his own game and not within the defense
- Was in the backfield three times all game
- Virtually no impact (blew up 1 WR screen where he was held and 2 run stuffs: 3rd and short)
- Didn't make 1st tackle until the very end (44 seconds) of the 1st QT
- All but 3 tackles made (9 tackles total) were 4 to 8 yards down field
- Was taken off the field on quite a few passing downs

He's probably one of the worst tacklers I've seen in the past two years. Not that bad, but he's so out of control, he's pretty frustrating to watch. If you wanna see a MLB jog around the field all day long, watch ASU and then watch #7. That'll be him jogging.

A lot of those negatives can go hand in hand with each other, but I try to be as descriptive as possible. And it's from just the one game.

He's made some highlight reel plays that have gotten him a lot of recognition. He's a 5 star recruit with ridiculous size, and I'd venture to guess some pretty good straight line speed. He does act like a complete bonehead and would rather get into shoving matches with linemen after the play is dead instead of actually disengaging and making a tackle. He has a reputation for letting his emotions get the best of him. Probably just immature.

He looks like Rey Maualuga all over again. A two down player that has no technique, is big, makes some huge hits, but misses a lot of tackles because he's always looking for the knockout blow. He's just undisciplined and does his own thing out there.

I made this post because of the insane overhype he's receiving in this thread. I like the kid and he's got a lot of potential, but he's really raw and didn't make much improvements from his freshman year. If he was in this draft I would have given him a third round grade.


Well below those two. I've heard some early buzz from scouts that Hightower is fairly overrated.
Yeah, I would say the same. I don't know what happened to him. I really liked him and thought he was just as good as McClain a couple years ago. After the injury he appeared about 40 pounds fatter, much slower and was looking like a DE. There were games last year where he simply looked terrible. I mean terrible.

FUNBUNCHER
05-03-2011, 02:13 AM
College tackle stats may never be the 'end all-be all' for grading college Mikes, but IMO Kuechly is more instinctive, more productive and it shows up in his numbers.

Burfict is a 'wow' type prospect, meaning at least a couple times a game he's going to make you catch your breath in your throat. Hyper-physical player.

Keuchly IMO locates the ball better and seems like the more instinctive ILB.

Keuchly's numbers reflect his evaluation, and had more than twice the solo tackles that Burfict had in 2010.

Yeah tackle numbers can be subjective, but that discrepancy IMO between the two players isn't.

IMO those two are in direct competition in 2011, although I'm not sure Kuechly leaves BC after his junior season.

I'd almost bet that it's 90% certain Burfict is gone after his junior year.

Rosebud
05-03-2011, 02:21 AM
he is a better prospect than Willis imo. Prob have to go all the back to 2000 with LaVar Arrington to find a better prospect, and idk if he will even be considered better at the end of the day. Remember these last 2 season have been his true Fr. & So. years very rarely do any players make this type of impact let alone middle linebackers.

and as for his tackle stats while it's a irrelevant stat he was getting robbed, myself and boe both believe that he had around 20 tackles in the Arizona game and he credited with only 7

A perfect landing place for him would be Cleveland imo, behind Phil Taylor & Ahtyba Rubin he could put up some stupidly insane numbers

Not quite, the perfectly landing spot for him would be the Giants after a Falcons for Julio Jones type trade with Cleveland.

Mr. Goosemahn
05-03-2011, 02:36 AM
I would absolutely love to have either Burfict or Teo play alongside Lawrence Timmons in the middle for the Steelers. They'd be perfect complements. Burfict or Teo would be the thumpers, enabling Timmons to become the playmaker.

Burfict would be my #1 guy though, he plays with the nastiness and tenacity required to take on (and take out) blockers. There's a clip of him completely destroying an offensive lineman. Every single time I watch it I just shake my head in amazement for Burfict and embarrassment for the center.

9j3xYWnXWCM

As for Burficts "character concerns," I'd agree with Fenikz, they're overrated. It's simply a guy playing with a ridiculous amount of energy and intensity. I'd rather he get a bit carried away at times than have him lack these qualities. I don't think it's something that will affect him a lot, and I think that a good coach, and good teammates, will help him control. He simply gets too carried away at times.

fenikz
05-03-2011, 02:44 AM
College tackle stats may never be the 'end all-be all' for grading college Mikes, but IMO Kuechly is more instinctive, more productive and it shows up in his numbers.

Burfict is a 'wow' type prospect, meaning at least a couple times a game he's going to make you catch your breath in your throat. Hyper-physical player.

Keuchly IMO locates the ball better and seems like the more instinctive ILB.

Keuchly's numbers reflect his evaluation, and had more than twice the solo tackles that Burfict had in 2010.

Yeah tackle numbers can be subjective, but that discrepancy IMO between the two players isn't.

IMO those two are in direct competition in 2011, although I'm not sure Kuechly leaves BC after his junior season.

I'd almost bet that it's 90% certain Burfict is gone after his junior year.


Guarantee you if someone actually took the time to count each tackle Burfict had would be ahead of Kurecky as i said before against Zona he was only credited for 7 and he had about 20, I'd estimate he is in on at least 12 tackles a game

GxQEkLHo0F4
not all the plays but there is def more than 7 tackles on there

Duffman57
05-03-2011, 02:48 AM
I would absolutely love to have either Burfict or Teo play alongside Lawrence Timmons in the middle for the Steelers. They'd be perfect complements. Burfict or Teo would be the thumpers, enabling Timmons to become the playmaker.

Burfict would be my #1 guy though, he plays with the nastiness and tenacity required to take on (and take out) blockers. There's a clip of him completely destroying an offensive lineman. Every single time I watch it I just shake my head in amazement for Burfict and embarrassment for the center.

9j3xYWnXWCM

As for Burficts "character concerns," I'd agree with Fenikz, they're overrated. It's simply a guy playing with a ridiculous amount of energy and intensity. I'd rather he get a bit carried away at times than have him lack these qualities. I don't think it's something that will affect him a lot, and I think that a good coach, and good teammates, will help him control. He simply gets too carried away at times.

Its not character concerns that scare me, though people may get this mixed up with character concerns because of the pure association, but he lacks any discipline in his game. He is crazy and goes crazy durring games, but when he hits that crazy point, he forgets anything he learned in the film room and goes off pure athleticism and instinct, which, if i'm a DC REALLY scares me.

wicket
05-03-2011, 03:07 AM
1 Luke Kuechly
2 Vontaze Burflict
3 Manti Teo

Burflict could give you an allstar for many years but with luke kuechly you could get that as well along with someone who is smart enough to play all linebacking spots in a 4-3 and a guy whose floor is the was James Laurinaitis plays with the rams, aka unreal high floor.

Te'o is a bit of a mix of the two. hard hitter, good diagnostic skills, great leader, etc etc etc. I really cant think of anything bad to say about Manti and imo he would be the top ILB in many of the drafts but both Burflict and especially kuechly are just unreal prospects. I doubt all three will go pro though, I think burflict will but I actually could see both Kuechly and Teo returning.

bullg8rdaddy
05-03-2011, 03:28 AM
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/prospectrankings/TSX/2013_ILB

fenikz
05-03-2011, 05:10 AM
That scariest part about Burfict is that he isn't muscular, he is even a little on the pudgy side. ASU doesn't really have a great weight lifting program so he is no where near his physical peak yet. Could be running a 4.5 at 255 come the combine if he entirely commits himself to it.

AntoinCD
05-03-2011, 06:17 AM
I think Burfict has to go to the right place to have great success. I don't see him being the type to go to a very structured defense and having to play within the system. If he goes to an attacking defense and just has to find the ball the he could be a monster but for example if he goes to a cover 2 I think he would be way out of his depth.

I like Kuechly quite a lot too but Im all over Manti Teo's nuts this year. I think he will be really special

roscoesdad27
05-03-2011, 06:45 AM
I think Burfict has to go to the right place to have great success. I don't see him being the type to go to a very structured defense and having to play within the system. If he goes to an attacking defense and just has to find the ball the he could be a monster but for example if he goes to a cover 2 I think he would be way out of his depth.

I like Kuechly quite a lot too but Im all over Manti Teo's nuts this year. I think he will be really special

I think its safe to say that Burfict might be the best pure 3-4 ted/thumper prospect ever....yea I said it. Might not have the discipline to be a 4-3 mlb, unless in a giants/n.o. type scheme, but he could be an epic ted backer. Can't get over the Ray traits thou. When that intensity starts to spread thru the team, coaching staff and spills over into the crowd you got something special.

My very early #1 overall prospect...the best pure ted backer prospect ever...check this out.

http://m.youtube.com/index?desktop_uri=%2F&gl=US#/watch?v=KvcsffTQojI

The hop step after the interception at the 2 minute spot is impressive and shows fluidity, jumping the snap soo often shows great anticipation/instincts.....yea he's nasty and reckless, and I love it.

fenikz
05-03-2011, 07:47 AM
your link isn't working for me but I agree that his best position is SILB in a 3-4

FUNBUNCHER
05-03-2011, 12:01 PM
If Hightower can return to his 2008 form, he could work his way into first round consideration too.

If the top guys come out, assuming they test well, specifically the 40, I could easily see Teo/Kuechly/Burfict all going in the first.

LickaMahfeetz
05-04-2011, 02:04 AM
Guarantee you if someone actually took the time to count each tackle Burfict had would be ahead of Kurecky as i said before against Zona he was only credited for 7 and he had about 20, I'd estimate he is in on at least 12 tackles a game

GxQEkLHo0F4
not all the plays but there is def more than 7 tackles on there
Yes sir. I counted I think 11 on there in that video alone with one real questionable one. Definitely more than 7 but not quite 20.

LickaMahfeetz
05-04-2011, 02:13 AM
One thing I know about Burfict is he plays too emotionally. So much so that it always gets him in trouble. I'm an SC guy in the Pac-10. They recruited Burfict hard. I think part of the reason he chose Arizona St. over USC was because they already had a few guys at MLB over there and he didn't like the competition. That prompted Devon Kennard to be moved from DE to ILB but that's another story.

Let me go back to USC vs Arizona St. 2010 now. Kiffin knows this guy well, really well and USC used what they knew about Burfict to basically get them a win. When they played last year USC needed to a FG to put them up by one point on their final drive to win the game. Kiffin put out a hit on Burfict, he knew what kind of explosive personality he has. The goal was to goad him into a 15 yard unsportsmanlike. Play after play went right at Burfict. After every play somebody made sure to give Burfict a little something extra after the whistle. Burfict was real good at keeping himself in check for a little while. I believe they even knocked him over after one play, Tyron Smith maybe? Eventually he did lose it though and he retaliated and that penalty actually put USC in FG range. They played him like a muppet.

I have to say as a Pac-10 guy who gets to see all the games, I have to agree with fenikz here. He's getting a little overrated in this thread. Nice prospect though.

Rosebud
05-04-2011, 02:14 AM
If Hightower can return to his 2008 form, he could work his way into first round consideration too.

If the top guys come out, assuming they test well, specifically the 40, I could easily see Teo/Kuechly/Burfict all going in the first.

I doubt it. Hightower is Rey Rey stiff. A sweet run thumper for a 3-4 team looking for one, but that's a positiong that doesn't get drafted in the first round, he's like Rey Rey or Spikes, not a 3 down ILB like Willis, Mayo or Burflict.

fenikz
05-04-2011, 02:16 AM
One thing I know about Burfict is he plays too emotionally. So much so that it always gets him in trouble. I'm an SC guy in the Pac-10. They recruited Burfict hard. I think part of the reason he chose Arizona St. over USC was because they already had a few guys at MLB over there and he didn't like the competition. That prompted Devon Kennard to be moved from DE to ILB but that's another story.

Let me go back to USC vs Arizona St. 2010 now. Kiffin knows this guy well, really well and USC used what they knew about Burfict to basically get them a win. When they played last year USC needed to a FG to put them up by one point on their final drive to win the game. Kiffin put out a hit on Burfict, he knew what kind of explosive personality he has. The goal was to goad him into a 15 yard unsportsmanlike. Play after play went right at Burfict. After every play somebody made sure to give Burfict a little something extra after the whistle. Burfict was real good at keeping himself in check for a little while. I believe they even knocked him over after one play, Tyron Smith maybe? Eventually he did lose it though and he retaliated and that penalty actually put USC in FG range. They played him like a muppet.

I have to say as a Pac-10 guy who gets to see all the games, I have to agree with fenikz here. He's getting a little overrated in this thread. Nice prospect though.

ya that was ********, a USC guy on the sideline pushed Burfict and Burfict got the penalty, Refs are ********

and I never said Burfict was overrated, he is a top 5 prospect and one of the best ILB prospects of all time

and he selected ASU cus all of his friends went there, the entire LB core is from the same HS I believe

LickaMahfeetz
05-04-2011, 03:15 AM
ya that was ********, a USC guy on the sideline pushed Burfict and Burfict got the penalty, Refs are ********

and I never said Burfict was overrated, he is a top 5 prospect and one of the best ILB prospects of all time

and he selected ASU cus all of his friends went there, the entire LB core is from the same HS I believe
My bad. That was supposed to say BigBanger, not you. I just got your name caught up after replying to your other post minutes before.

I like Burfict too but he's not perfect. He's definitely one of the top 5 ILB's in college this year. All time? We'll see.

bullg8rdaddy
05-04-2011, 06:16 AM
and he selected ASU cus all of his friends went there, the entire LB core is from the same HS I believe

6 Lyons, Shelly 74 6-2 230 Linebacker 7 SR Corona, Calif./Centennial
7 Burfict, Vontaze 75 6-3 252 Linebacker 5 JR Corona, Calif./Centennial
8 Magee, Brandon 71 5-11 230 Linebacker 7 SR Corona, Calif./Centennial

Not to mention a RS JR WR, Soph DT, and Frosh QB. lol

LINK (http://thesundevils.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/asu-m-footbl-mtt.html)

BTW, I live 30 minutes away from their HS.

amdahlj
05-04-2011, 10:04 AM
Yes sir. I counted I think 11 on there in that video alone with one real questionable one. Definitely more than 7 but not quite 20.
I wouldn't give him credit for any more than 8 tackles (and at least two of those are shared with other defenders). In getting 11, you really must have counted either whiffs that looked like tackles or plays where Burfict makes slight contact but doesn't actually contribute much of anything to bringing the runner down.

After watching the video, I a LOT of the negative things that BigBaner cited previously. Burfict missed a lot of tackles. He went for big hits when he really ought to have wrapped up. He prematurely abandoned zone coverage at least once. Here's my detailed breakdown of the video:

0:13 WR on end around breaks Burfict's attempt at a tackle and is tackled by someone else. Burfict shows great pursuit here but his technique on the tackle was atrocious and the play would have resulted in a big gain if there rest of the defense hadn't read the play as well.
0:55 RB falls at Burfict's feet after being tripped up by another defender. Looks like a tackle but Burfict played no role. If the tackle would have gone the exact same way without him being there, it isn't a tackle.
1:32 Burfict delivers a pretty weak hit to a WR already wrapped up by another defender. Burfict plays very little role in the tackle but you could generously credit him with an assist here.
1:50 Burfict's first real tackle come here against a scrambling QB.
2:30 Burfict tries for an ankle tackle on a WR screen and fails. No tackle or assist here. Looks like an O-Lineman may have tripped him from behind, but definitely not an impressive play.
3:00 Burfict's second real tackle again comes against a scrambling QB. Afterwards he looks absolutely winded when he comes off field.
3:40 Burfict whiffs running back on inside run. No tackle.
3:53 Burfict gets a tackle by knocking a RB out of bounds, gets up, then falls on the ref. I'm not sure which showed better technique.
4:31 Burfict is in the vacinity of a gang tackle and makes some contact with the runner, but all the credit goes to the two DTs here. The play goes the exact same way even if Burfict isn't involved. Again, you can give Burfict an assist here if you are feeling really generous.
4:58 Burfict aims low on RB, but makes no visible contact because #2 gets there first and RB flies right over Burfict. No tackle, no assist.
5:35 Burfict's tackle broken by RB. Burfict made a good read here, gets past a lineman but makes another poor attempt to bring the runner down. No tackle, no assist.
5:45 Burfict makes a genuinely good tackle on RB and strips ball. Well done!
6:46 Burfict whiffs RB on counter play. Makes only the slightest contact with runner and plays no real role in tackle. Burfict helps re-reroute the play at least, but only because RB chooses wrong hole. If he doesn't cut this one inside, the pulling guard has a shot at Burfict and he can follow the FB's lead block.
6:56 Burfict makes a good sideline tackle.
7:26 Burfict comes out of zone coverage to go after QB and is at least partially responsible for allowing a TD pass.
7:34 Burfict makes solid tackle on RB.
7:48 Burfict ties to make a big hit on a WR who has already been wrapped up and is going to ground. Burfict largely whiffs but makes a little bit of contact. You can call this an assist if you are feeling really generous.
7:53 Burfict makes a good tackle here, but the first angle show makes it look much better than it was. Replay at 8:10 shows that runners feet have already been wrapped up by another defender, making it easies for Burfict to really drive him back with a good hit. Nice play by Burfict, but not really deserving of the "Wow" I gave it on first viewing. It's fair to call this a full tackle.
8:26 Burfict again makes a nice hit to bring down a runner already wrapped up by a team mate. Again, I'll could this as a full tackle.
8:53 Nice ankle tackle that potentially stops a big play.

Rosebud
05-04-2011, 10:51 AM
^ lulz, dude, do you know how most college Tackles #s are counted? If you're going to be that harsh on assigning tackles you should just completely ignore every prospect's tackle stats since every prospect has a lot of tackles where the didn't actually change the result of the play at all, in which case quit bitching about Burfict's tackle numbers.

LickaMahfeetz
05-04-2011, 12:21 PM
I wouldn't give him credit for any more than 8 tackles (and at least two of those are shared with other defenders). In getting 11, you really must have counted either whiffs that looked like tackles or plays where Burfict makes slight contact but doesn't actually contribute much of anything to bringing the runner down.

After watching the video, I a LOT of the negative things that BigBaner cited previously. Burfict missed a lot of tackles. He went for big hits when he really ought to have wrapped up. He prematurely abandoned zone coverage at least once. Here's my detailed breakdown of the video:
I don't count whiffs or tackles that never happened. I'm insulted you'd insinuate that. I think what happened here is you didn't give him credit where credit was due by inaccurately stating he whiffed on a guy he didn't. I'm not going back to recount my 10 to 11 to see which ones we're going to have to agree to disagree about. It's not that serious. But you should know that assisted tackles still count as tackles, no matter who made contact first. He can share all of them with other defenders if that was the case.

ElectricEye
05-04-2011, 12:27 PM
I'm honestly surprised people care this much about tackle numbers. It's a good stat when it's extreme one way or the other, like with Keuchly, but in that ASU defense there's lot of guys who get to the ball in a hurry.

Saints-Tigers
05-04-2011, 12:46 PM
YOu can find plenty of guys that pile up tackles anyway, Burfict is disruptive and physically imposing to everyone he gets near.

FUNBUNCHER
05-04-2011, 04:04 PM
I doubt it. Hightower is Rey Rey stiff. A sweet run thumper for a 3-4 team looking for one, but that's a positiong that doesn't get drafted in the first round, he's like Rey Rey or Spikes, not a 3 down ILB like Willis, Mayo or Burflict.


As a true freshman, Hightower was the most physically gifted LB on Alabama's football team. He had the size, range and a knack for making the huge hit.

That's why I say if Hightower can get near 90% back of who he was as a frosh, the guy people were comparing to Keith McCants/Cornelius Bennett/Derrick Thomas, he would have a real chance at working his way into the 1st round.

2012 is huge for him. If Hightower indeed regains his former athletic prowess, it will be quite obvious in the first couple of defensive series of their SEC season.

I think Hightower player last season well over 270#. He's just not that explosive at that weight.

At 255-260# Hightower is a sideline to sideline ILB.

bullg8rdaddy
05-04-2011, 06:18 PM
I'm honestly surprised people care this much about tackle numbers. It's a good stat when it's extreme one way or the other, like with Keuchly, but in that ASU defense there's lot of guys who get to the ball in a hurry.

Ruud has a ton of tackles......

/giggles.

Rabscuttle
05-04-2011, 09:51 PM
I heard a rumour that Vontaze Burfict just took a day trip to Pakistan as part of a Geography course.

bullg8rdaddy
05-04-2011, 11:43 PM
I heard a rumour that Vontaze Burfict just took a day trip to Pakistan as part of a Geography course.

lolz

1ochar

roscoesdad27
05-05-2011, 05:55 AM
Vontaze Burfict is like a deranged hybrid between Ray Lewis and Night Train Lane. Don't like his fit as a classic 4-3 mlb unless in a giants/saints scheme, could struggle as a 3-4 weak/feature backer BUT I'M GONNA GO HEAD AND DECLARE HIM THE BEST 3-4 thumper/silb/ted PROSPECT EVER. Won't put up big tackle #'s but will make an all pro out of his wilb partner, bring an intimdating presence and just has that invaluable Ray Lewis esq. contagious intensity.

I hope he somehow gets over analysed and falls to my beloved ravens....wow.

brat316
11-30-2011, 10:23 AM
lNbMnThnfIA


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ea9YmLSMGeQ

He looks like a sure 1st round pick to me.