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HawkEye30
05-03-2011, 11:23 PM
Welp, my philosophy for this draft will pretty much be either we get a qbotf or we're screwed. Sorry if this seems early to make this thread but I am bored out of my mind with finals week and it raining outside. Sooooo state what you think our team needs are and any specific players you like!

shylo3716
11-28-2011, 10:08 PM
Will you guys let Lynch go to potentially take Richardson, or do you bring back Lynch via Free Agency?

Caulibflower
11-29-2011, 03:29 AM
I like Lynch. But... Richardson is a rich man's Lynch. We're one of the teams who has a running back we'll give the ball to 30 times a game, so I do think we're in that group of teams that could take Richardson in the top half of the first. If we're too far down the pile to nab Barkley, I say take Richardson. We have a good defense, a young, (injured), improving line that likes to run-block and a pretty decent group of wide receivers. With this draft we need to be thinking cover corner, big-play offensive player and QB. I'm not too excited about any of the quarterbacks we're going to have a chance to draft, and Richardson would be waaaaay cheaper to draft than it would be to re-sign Marshawn, not to mention Richardson will probably be better the moment he steps on the field. Again, not to dis Lynch but by this point I am convinced Trent Richardson is in the Adrian Peterson/Darren MacFadden/Jonathan Stewart class of running backs and barring injury, is a guy whose skill set merits a premium pick.

I personally would like to take Richardson in round 1, a super athletic but maybe raw CB in round 2, and then between rounds 3 and 7 make sure to grab a QB who's got the physical ability but has some concern separating him from the first-round types. Wouldn't mind them taking a look at Brandon Weeden after in round 5. I'm intrigued by Russell Wilson, too. Height is a concern, of course, but he's really efficient, doesn't turn it over, and offers some improvisational ability. Not a standout passer, but I think he could run an NFL offense. Could probably even try him at a couple positions. And while he's short, he's stocky and you're not too worried about injuries. Looks like a running back. Kind of a cross between Drew Brees and Seneca Wallace. I like what I've seen an heard about him. I don't like to push need in the draft, although it's true with the new draft system that teams aren't nearly as committed financially to first-round QBs. I'd still rather take BPA. That's how you build talented teams. Rather take a project QB every year or two and try to maintain some good depth and competition at those important positions. Rather let coaches and scouts do their job over the course of a few years and turn a talented player into a productive player, letting players fall into positions they've earned as the positions open.

Anyways. I expect the Seahawks to make a really heavy push for one of the top QBs this draft. We're a team a good QB could put over the top, I think. We've been competitive all season, but just can't maintain anything offensively. Tarvaris Jackson is just not good enough, and Whitehurst isn't better. I like Landry Jones's arm, but don't trust his head. USC QBs...meh. But I think I like Barkley more than I liked Sanchez (who I didn't like). Like him more than I liked Leinart, but I thought Leinart was overrated, too. Basically, I just think that any QB who plays at USC is going to be both A) pretty good, and by virtue of playing at USC B) an automatic NFL prospect who is this very likely to be overrated, however good he actually is. I guess I like Barkley. Luck would be better. Robert Griffin III would be a fun player to pick. I like guys who can run.

But Tannehill is the guy I want. I think he has the best arm in this class. He throws the tightest spirals, and throws ropes to his receivers on comebacks and outs, picking up chunks of 15 between the numbers and the sideline all day. That's exactly what you have to be able to do in the NFL, and he's definitely got the arm to push it in there. Throws a nice deep ball, but his accuracy's a little inconsistent. He tries for hard throws, which I like, and makes some really impressive targets. And of course, he can run. Before watching him, I knew he had been a wide receiver converted back to a QB, but I he's a lot thicker than expected, and its obvious that the TA&M staff just couldn't just ignore his throwing ability, regardless of what he could offer at wideout. The video below is really impressive. He does look pretty raw, but there are several throws in there just screaming "NFL!" I'd be stoked to get him with a second rounder, and if it was me I might think about spending a first. He's new at the position, so I'm taking reading coverages and mechanics, footwork and stuff as granted areas of improvement. I just seriously think he has the best arm in this draft, and to be honest I don't really think it's that close. Luck throws knuckleballs, and neither he, Barkley or Jones throw with Tannehill's velocity. Tannehill's also a better overall athlete than any of them, and might be the tallest to boot. So yeah. Dream draft is starting to look like... Richardson in the first, Tannehill in the second, and then between the third and the end of the draft, pick up Jeff Demps and a corner along the lines of Trumaine Johnson.


C2heGLAjiDc

Caulibflower
11-29-2011, 03:36 AM
By the way, do we know which rounds the Seahawks are picking in this year? Have they traded away or acquired 2012 picks?

summond822
12-03-2011, 09:15 PM
I doubt that they don't resign Lynch to draft Richardson, but I also happen to be one of the people who think that Richardson won't make it to the Seahawks pick. Richardson is a much more complete runner than Lynch and before Lynch went off these past couple of weeks I was thinking about how nicely someone like Chris Polk or that RB from Miami (Lamar Miller?) would be a nice pick up in the second round.

RG3 has become my new QB fixation since I doubt that Matt Barkley is going to be available unless the Colts don't take Luck first overall. I like his arm, his mobility, and his intelligence. I think if he cleans up his footwork a bit more he could be a star.

I don't trust Landry Jones at all. He has 0 mobility, locks onto targets, and generally doesn't throw the ball more than 5-10 yards down the field more than 5 times a game. I don't think he fits our system so I'm not that worried about them drafting him.

As for the draft picks, as far as I can tell we have all of our picks, except for 1 where we traded an undisclosed pick to Detroit for Tyler Polumbus.

We also have the Raiders 7th round pick.

asdf1223
12-04-2011, 11:25 PM
We would probably lose a pick to Buffalo in the Lynch trade. Possibly a 4th rounder.

Caulibflower
12-12-2011, 08:38 PM
Just throwing it out there: credit the front office for the way they've drastically reduced the need at corner through a 5th-round rookie and a CFL player. They're actually pretty good. It's not quite a need anymore.

gpngc
12-12-2011, 10:09 PM
Eh, I don't know. Tru is probably done. We still could use another CB. Browner's playing well tonight but he could definitely be upgraded.

Caulibflower
12-13-2011, 07:17 AM
Certainly not saying we should pass on an elite corner, should the value and opportunity be there, but both of the guys we have starting are pretty young and still have some development potential - not journeyman roster-filler types we've seemed to have the last couple years. I'd still like to take a corner in the first 4 rounds, just to add depth and competition, but our safeties are so good the secondary is pretty talented overall. Those corners have some help, so as far as pass defense goes I'm just thinking I'd probably be ranking a young stud pass rusher as a higher positional priority than a cornerback.

Caulibflower
12-19-2011, 07:38 PM
Well whaddaya know... We've got a top-10 defense in yards and points allowed. Nice work, Seattle. Now if we could just get ourselves a serviceable QB...

If we get to 9-7, I think we'll be in the perfect spot to pick Tannehill. Tannehill's my guy this year. I be stoked to draft him and sign someone like Garrard or Henne to a 1 or 2-year deal while he develops. What's Tarvaris's contract look like? Really don't see a point in keeping him around. He's not an NFL starter. Wouldn't want either of them long-term, but they'd at least make our offense watchable, I think.

summond822
12-19-2011, 10:11 PM
My problem with Tannehill is that he plays for Texas A&M. The same Texas A&M team that blew like a zillion 4th quarter leads this year. I don't want a QB who can't handle the pressure of the 4th quarter in college...let alone the NFL.

And he's not going in the first anyways. He'll probably be grabbed in the second by Washington if they miss out on RG3. Course I said the same thing about Christian Ponder last year and he went at 12...

And Tavaris is on a 2 year $8 million contract if I remember correctly.

gpngc
12-19-2011, 11:01 PM
I would not be adverse to trading many, many picks to move up for one of the top three QBs.

The team could USE a lot, but there are literally no glaring needs anywhere. It's fantastic. Because of that, I say add a pass rusher (maybe WR) in FA, and trade whatever it takes picks-wise to get RG3, Barkley, Luck, or Manning.

gpngc
12-19-2011, 11:06 PM
And Calub, I'd rather start T-Jack than Henne or Garrard. T-Jack is not great but he's still relatively young and we clearly CAN win a little with him. He still has some upside in my opinion. And what he's done this year in terms of gutty performances - I like him. He's a little stupid, but that CAN improve with experience. A guy like McNair didn't develop into a quality passer until late in his career. Still, I prefer to get a young guy and let T-Jack be the bridge until the next guy. Pretty sure that's the plan based on the contract we gave him...

Caulibflower
12-20-2011, 03:46 PM
Yeah, I might be a little heavy on the Jackson hate. Part of it is one of my good friends is a Vikings fan, and was always moaning about him and now I have to watch it every week in Seattle. It's the 3 or 4 plays a game where he leaves 20 yards on the field that really bug me. (might be a slight exaggeration) Suppose Henne or Garrard probably wouldn't be any better.

Caulibflower
12-20-2011, 03:51 PM
Also definitely agree it's really, really nice to have a relatively solid, well-rounded team. Then we can just draft BPA and try to bring in some playmakers. I also understand the concerns with Tanehill not being able to bring his teams to wins in the 4th quarter, and normally that's something that would concern me a lot more. Is Tannehill finally the guy whose athleticism and arm are making me look past some other pretty important concerns? It's possible. But he's really only played the position for a year and a half, so you can't expect him to be fully developed. I easily concede he's a much riskier pick than RGIII, Luck or Barkley.

summond822
12-21-2011, 12:17 AM
I agree with you gpngc that they should trade whatever it takes to get Barkley or RG3. I don't even really care which one, because they both are excellent fits for what Carroll wants to do (at least I believe so).

I mean a RB to spell Lynch, someone to help Clemons, and maybe some more depth at LB, DL, CB are probably their only real pressing needs. This team is so young it's beyond ridiculous.

I compare Tannehill to Locker. Locker's first year under Sarkisian was really the first time he went from being an athlete to being a QB. He showed improvement in his second year, even though it was never the amount of improvement that was expected of him.

I'm not sure that Tannehill has taken that step from being an athlete to being a QB. I haven't seen his end of the year tape, but a guy I trust at evaluating QB's a lot more myself didn't really see any improvement from his bowl game last year to the Texas game this year.

There may be something that I missed and I'll have to go back and check for myself.

gpngc
02-27-2012, 11:35 PM
Two dream drafts (both assume we re-sign Bryant and Lynch):

Sign QB Peyton Manning (lose Hawthorne)
1st Round: DT Fletcher Cox
2nd Round: MLB Mychal Kendricks
3rd Round: DE Jonathan Massaquoi
4th Round: QB B.J. Coleman

OR

Re-Sign MLB David Hawthorne
1st Round: QB Ryan Tannehill (I don't love him, but I think it's very possible we end up with him)
2nd Round: OLB Lavonte David/DE Vinny Curry
3rd Round: DE Billy Winn
4th Round: T.Y. Hilton/Marvin McNutt/Ryan Broyles

Caulibflower
02-29-2012, 11:08 PM
Two dream drafts (both assume we re-sign Bryant and Lynch):

Sign QB Peyton Manning (lose Hawthorne)
1st Round: DT Fletcher Cox
2nd Round: MLB Mychal Kendricks
3rd Round: DE Jonathan Massaquoi
4th Round: QB B.J. Coleman


Good, but the latest I've heard on Manning is that he's not progressing as he should be and might even have to have more surgery. But we could still end up with Flynn, or, and I just thought of this, the nightmarish scenario where Pete Carroll reveals himself to have "always been a big Alex Smith fan, who always thought he could do it..." and the Seattle fanbase lets out a collective, "No. No... oh, no, no no no no no NO NO NO!"

OR

Re-Sign MLB David Hawthorne
1st Round: QB Ryan Tannehill (I don't love him, but I think it's very possible we end up with him)
2nd Round: OLB Lavonte David/DE Vinny Curry
3rd Round: DE Billy Winn
4th Round: T.Y. Hilton/Marvin McNutt/Ryan Broyles

Also looks good to me, except I think I consider those second-round options to be really similar types of players to Chris Clemons, who's basically in his prime and producing. So if we're already thinking rotation, my inclination would be more towards getting Marshawn Lynch a legit backup. You know I'm a big Doug Martin fan, but I was a bit intrigued by Turbin before the combine, even likening him to Marshawn Lynch, but he didn't really look fast to me on film. But after the combine, that's evidently not the case, and he gained a lot of stock with me, because my biggest thing with him was thinking he didn't look very fast. But two big, physical runners like that who both can break big plays will really make the transition easier for whatever quarterback we end up with.

stlouisfan37
03-01-2012, 07:34 PM
I come in peace! And I live here in Seattle and I'm not a hater!

I was just curious if anyone had heard a report from Jason LaConfora that a trade with the Redskins for the #2 pick was all but a done deal, and that the Rams were actually in trade talks with Seattle for the #6 pick in the event that none of the players they want are still around? I didn't actually hear the report myself; it was reported secondhand in a column in the St. Louis Post-Dispatch I believe. The thought was that Seattle would have to jump past Miami to secure Tannehill. It would, of course, hinge upon Miami still needing a QB when the draft rolls around.

Any merit to this? If so, how would you guys feel about trading up for Tannehill? Honestly I don't see him being worthy of a blockbuster trade myself.

Caulibflower
03-02-2012, 04:55 PM
You all probably know what I think. Ultimately, this is a pretty strong team across the board, with the exception of QB. I like Tannehill, and I think it's worth it for this team to make a move for a QB, whoever that ends up being. I don't really think Tannehill is a reach at #6. He's a very high-ceiling player, isn't in trouble, and fits our offense. I don't know that there would be another player on the board who would have as big an impact on the team, and that, to me, is what justifies the pick.

summond822
03-02-2012, 05:03 PM
I wouldn't believe that at all. Everything coming out right now has to be taken with a grain of salt. It's like Clayton said on 710 ESPN the other day, the Seahawks are not in on RG3 (I know not really related) at all because:

1) They can't afford to trade their entire draft.
2) St. Louis isn't going to trade with a division rival unless they get a much better deal than from anyone else.

Also, I can't buy that a trade has already been finalized. Especially when Cleveland is sitting there with 2 1st rounders and free agency hasn't even started.

One more note: Jake Locker who I feel is very similar to Tannehill was the 4th ranked QB on the Seahawks board last year.

gpngc
03-07-2012, 01:35 AM
Apparently we are willing to go "all-in" on Peyton Manning, according to multiple reports. We'd sign Wayne to accommodate him and would reportedly change the offense. And pay him top dollar. If we are able to somehow pull that off we'd likely lose Hawthorne AND Bryant which would make our draft needs pretty obvious.

Good news is that LeRoy Hill could be back because his marijuana chargers were dropped.

Imagine:

QB: Peyton Manning
RB: Marshawn Lynch
WR: Reggie Wayne
WR: Sidney Rice
WR: Doug Baldwin
TE: Zach Miller
LT: Okung
LG: Gallery
C: Unger
RG: Moffit/Carpenter
RT: Carpenter/Breno

That offense looks like a ******* fantasy team.

DE: ???
DT: Alan Branch
DT: Mebane
DE: Clemons
OLB: Hill
MLB: ????/Wright
OLB: Wright/????
CB: Browner
SS: Kam
FS: Earl
CB: Sherman

With that roster, we'll draft DE, LB, CB, DT.

Caulibflower
03-07-2012, 11:40 PM
Apparently we are willing to go "all-in" on Peyton Manning, according to multiple reports. We'd sign Wayne to accommodate him and would reportedly change the offense. And pay him top dollar. If we are able to somehow pull that off we'd likely lose Hawthorne AND Bryant which would make our draft needs pretty obvious.

Good news is that LeRoy Hill could be back because his marijuana chargers were dropped.

Imagine:

QB: Peyton Manning
RB: Marshawn Lynch
WR: Reggie Wayne
WR: Sidney Rice
WR: Doug Baldwin
TE: Zach Miller
LT: Okung
LG: Gallery
C: Unger
RG: Moffit/Carpenter
RT: Carpenter/Breno

That offense looks like a ******* fantasy team.

DE: ???
DT: Alan Branch
DT: Mebane
DE: Clemons
OLB: Hill
MLB: ????/Wright
OLB: Wright/????
CB: Browner
SS: Kam
FS: Earl
CB: Sherman

With that roster, we'll draft DE, LB, CB, DT.

Holy **** that could be a good offense. It's literally just... I mean, it's stacked. Baldwin doing the Brandon Stokely/Austin Collie thing, Reggie Wayne being Reggie Wayne, ...HOLY **** THEY HAVE SIDNEY RICE, TOO? Golden Tate running around being fast and quick and roly-poly, Marshawn Lynch eating skittles, ....HOLY ****, ZACH MILLER IS A SEAHAWK, TOO?

+ Top 10 defense.

The End.

gpngc
03-07-2012, 11:42 PM
lol ur high.

scary thing is it's possible. wow. u just got in a great mood.

Caulibflower
03-07-2012, 11:45 PM
In that scenario I like Fletcher Cox, Quinton Coples, Melvin Ingram, Courtney Upshaw or Luke Keuchly in the first, Doug Martin, Alameda Ta'amu or Mychal Kendricks in the second, Burfict, Martin or Trumaine Johnson in the third, and Dontari Poe in the fourth.

gpngc
03-07-2012, 11:58 PM
In that scenario I like Fletcher Cox, Quinton Coples, Melvin Ingram, Courtney Upshaw or Luke Keuchly in the first, Doug Martin, Alameda Ta'amu or Mychal Kendricks in the second, Burfict, Martin or Trumaine Johnson in the third, and Dontari Poe in the fourth.

With ya on most. Poe in the 4th isn't happening though.

I think CB is a bigger need for us than we think. We need three starting-quality CBs.

Only guy we don't need is Ta'amu. We are in the unique position of having two guys capable of playing the nose. Most teams have one or none.

Caulibflower
03-08-2012, 12:41 AM
With ya on most. Poe in the 4th isn't happening though.

I think CB is a bigger need for us than we think. We need three starting-quality CBs.

Only guy we don't need is Ta'amu. We are in the unique position of having two guys capable of playing the nose. Most teams have one or none.


Poe was a joke. I am intrigued by Trumaine Johnson. Yeah, probably not Ta'amu, as I think about it more. Especially considering how good our defense already is against the run. There'll be better players to fill more important needs at that pick. I basically think Ta'amu is what everyone wishes Poe was, except Ta'amu doesn't test out as well.

stlouisfan37
03-11-2012, 05:23 AM
In that scenario I like Fletcher Cox, Quinton Coples, Melvin Ingram, Courtney Upshaw or Luke Keuchly in the first, Doug Martin, Alameda Ta'amu or Mychal Kendricks in the second, Burfict, Martin or Trumaine Johnson in the third, and Dontari Poe in the fourth.

As talented as Burfict is, I doubt he is on your team's board in the top 100. He absolutely stunk up the combine to the point where several teams simply took him off their board. Kinda reminds me of Ebby Calvin "Nuke" LaLoosh from Bull Durham..."Come on, 'rook, show us that million-dollar arm. 'Cause I got; oh yeah, I got a good idea about that five-cent head of yours."

Caulibflower
03-17-2012, 06:25 PM
I like the Jason Jones signing, and think it might make it a little less likely that we go for someone like Fletcher Cox or Melvin Ingram or Coples. They might be more talented, but Jones is a pretty solid player in the same role.

But - If Manning signs with the 49ers, Flynn then signs with Miami, and then there's only Kansas City and Cleveland ahead of us in the draft possibly looking for a QB. Not sure Cleveland would be willing to take Tannehill with their first pick, and Kansas City does have Matt Cassel, who might not be great but certainly isn't terrible.

summond822
03-18-2012, 04:01 AM
I like Jones as well. He gives us more versatility with his ability to rush the passer from the interior and back up Bryant. As for draft picks, I think it just lets them focus on a DE or whoever they are targeting at the pick.

I get this feeling that if Manning signs with Denver, Jacksonville will be pressured into making a trade for Tebow by their new owner, and with the recent signing of Henne, that might make Gabbert available. I know the optimism regarding Gabbert has gone down, but he was the #1 QB on their board last year. They might be willing to trade a 2nd or a 3rd to Jacksonville to get him.

Or another scenario if Manning signs with Denver...the Seahawks go after Tebow...*shudder*

If Manning signs with Tennessee though, look for Hasselbeck to be released and then Cleveland or Miami (if they haven't signed Flynn yet) will snatch him up. Thus ensuring Tannehill falls to 12.

I just have trouble seeing Manning signing with the 49ers. The NFC West is on the upswing while the AFC West & South are on the downswing. This year he may get to the playoffs/Super Bowl, but next year it will be much harder. It is an easier path to the Super Bowl through the AFC right now. And I think ultimately his goal is Super Bowls.

asdf1223
03-18-2012, 07:24 AM
I think Manning knows he has maybe 2-3 good years left in him. Why not go to the best team that wants to upgrade its QB?
With the draft, I wonder if the team is willing to trade for picks next year for picks this year. If they have a QB target in mind for next year make sense.

summond822
03-18-2012, 10:26 PM
We signed Flynn. I think we can count out taking Tannehill at 12. I am personally hoping that Melvin Ingram falls to us since I think his versatility at LB and as a back-up to Clemons at LEO is the best fit of the possible DE guys at 12.

Caulibflower
03-19-2012, 12:25 AM
Nah, we've got a good defense and Jason Jones fills the spot we needed on the line. LEO isn't a need anymore; I think Jason Jones can do that. He's a terrific athlete. (His combine numbers from a few years ago, for example, are better than Coples', Ingram's, and others'.) I remember reading some articles a few years ago about how coaches were raving about this kid from Eastern Michigan was was playing defensive tackle at 275 lbs, and running down running backs and whatnot. I'm kind of excited to see what he does, and wouldn't be surprised if he becomes a feature of our rotation, perhaps rotating outside on passing downs, and rolling in to let Bryant hold the edge on first and second. Point being, I'm still trying to think of someone we could use offensively at #12. Beyond DeCastro, now that we have Flynn... I wouldn't mind trying to trade down, if there was any interest. I keep thinking a blue chip receiver would be a nice shot in the arm for this offense, and it'd be a nice way to welcome Flynn to Seattle. Sidney Rice has had only that one good season, and that was Favre's revenge season. He hasn't been as dynamic or healthy since. Wouldn't be opposed to taking a long look at Michael Floyd. If Flynn turns out to be good, having Michael Floyd, Sidney Rice, Doug Baldwin and Golden Tate to throw to is a pretty diverse set of weapons on the outside. But without Floyd, you're talking about a pretty skinny, injury-prone guy with good balls skills playing no. 1, and everyone else trying to fulfil a role a notch higher than their skillset. Doug Baldwin led the team last year, but he's obviously a slot-type guy with his small stature, quickness and acceleration. Bringing in a guy like Floyd would let all the other receivers shift back into roles which better suit their abilities. If you made me pick defense at #12, I might take a look at which secondary guys are on the board. Especially if Manning signs with San Francisco, with the way teams play these days it doesn't hurt to bring in talented cover men when they're available. Round two I'd kind of like to grab Doug Martin. I think he'll be gone by the time we pick again, and he's the perfect running back to spell Marshawn and keep the team from running him into the ground. He runs tough, he's fast enough for his style, breaks tackles and catches the ball well. We draft him, we might not need to be too dependent on Flynn 'cause it might be a little like MJD and Fred Taylor a few years ago. Seriously think Martin can be a serious competitor in the NFL. Anyways, those are my latest draft thoughts.

gpngc
03-19-2012, 12:59 AM
I don't see them taking a receiver with so many in the stable (and many of them having starting aspirations/experience/talent OR upside). It's possible I guess. But there are literally 7 that deserve a shot at playing time with our new real QB.

I think it's more likely Kuechly or a pass rusher. Jones will be used inside on passing downs. Our run defense should be solid assuming we can add a MLB somehow. But I don't know which pass rusher I like. They are all so sketchy to me.

Other possibilities include Kirkpatrick/Gilmore (fits the team's CB prototype), DeCastro (although I doubt they go OL with yet another premium pick), or a trade down (which they tried last year but failed somehow). Word is there is going to be A LOT of moving and shaking this year.

The great thing about the Flynn signing is that it opens up the draft for everything else. If they didn't add Flynn they would have 100% taken a QB at #12, higher, later in the first either on a trade-up or trade-down, or at the very latest in the 2nd round (Weeden or Ose).

I just want to sign LeRoy Hill and/or a MLB (Hawthorne/Lofton/Tulloch) because if we go into the draft needing TWO new starting LBs, that's not good. If we go in needing just one - Mychal Kendricks in the 2nd and call it a day.

summond822
03-19-2012, 02:29 AM
Jones is not a LEO candidate. He is a 3-tech. He was slid outside to DE this year because of his ability to generate pressure up the middle and they were hoping to captilize on that and his athleticism. It didn't work. We also only had 4 sacks combined last year from Byant, Mebane, & Branch. Jones has had at least 3 sacks every year in his career. And lets not forget we were one of the worst teams in the league in sacks (T-19th but only 5 sacks above 31st).

We still haven't upgraded the speed in our front 7 like Carroll said he wanted to. I think that we are looking at DE/LB being the pick there unless someone falls on draft day (Blackmon or Richardson).

Really the reason I love Ingram and have focused on him is because of his versatility. He can stand up and play LB. He can put his hand on the ground and rush the QB. Pretty much defenses have to account for where he is coming from. And if his primary responsibility next year is to just rush the passer, it could be like Aldon Smith this year.

The other two there (Coples & Upshaw) have more red flags to me. Coples for work ethic, Upshaw for his speed. The rest of the DE's I don't like in the Top 15.

And honestly taking OG at 12 (for any team) seems ridiculous. Maybe later 1st, but top 15? That isn't a G that's a tackle.

WR I could see, but I don't think Floyd deserves to go that high and Wright raised flags for me with his 40 time at the combine. I know focusing on the 40 is bad when I've seen his speed on the field, but that is precisely why it has me so worried.

This turned out longer than I thought but last point. I agree with gpngc, we need to sign at least 1 LB before the draft. Starting 2 rookie LB's makes me very nervous.

Caulibflower
03-19-2012, 03:31 PM
Michael Floyd, Keuchley, DeCastro are my top guys for #12 right now. Whether or not Jason Jones can play LEO remains to be seen... but you really think Ingram is better suited for the role? Why, because you saw him do it last year in college? I think Jones is just as good of an athlete, he just hasn't had the press coverage Ingram's gotten this year. He's already basically been doing in the NFL what Ingram is supposed to; move around the line, rush the passer and also stop the run. I really don't think Ingram would be all that much of an upgrade. I like him, but I'm not eager to draft him at #12.

summond822
03-19-2012, 11:41 PM
I am not saying that we use Ingram exclusively as a LEO this year. What I am saying is that with Ingram we have someone who can spell Clemons and get pressure without having to sacrifice our base formation.

Other than Clemons, we had no pressure anywhere from our front 7.

The reason that Jones was available is because his stock was shot. His stock was shot because he played DE this past year. He is a 3-Tech DT not a LEO. Even John Clayton said that today. He also explains why Jones picked Seattle over St. Louis and Tennessee.

Jason Jones comments are at 14:15 (http://mynorthwest.com/category/pod_player_sports/?a=40355&p=21&n=Cold%20Hard%20Facts)

And yes I would rather have Ingram for that spot because he did it in college. The difference between Ingram and Jones is that Ingram is a DE/OLB hybrid whereas Jones is a DE/DT hybrid.

The LEO position is a pure pass rushing position. If they wanted to just fill the LEO position they could take some one like Mercillis, Bruce Irvin, or Vinny Curry later and plug them in behind Clemons.

We are a team that blitzes a lot. It is a necessary evil with our defense. By having someone who can move around the formation and rush from different spots, we improve our defense. Of the pass rushers who I think worth the #12 pick (Coples, Upshaw, and Ingram), I think that Ingram has the greatest versatility. If I had to compare these 3 to pro's, I would probably say:

Ingram = Justin Tuck (smaller I know, but similar play styles)
Upshaw = James Harrison (mentally and playing, just mean SoB's.)
Coples = Richard Seymour when he wants to play

Would I rather have Kuechly? Yes actually I would. He reminds me of Brian Urlacher. But the reason I don't focus on him is because he doesn't rush the passer. And ultimately I think that this front office doesn't value LB's very highly.

gpngc
03-20-2012, 01:26 AM
Two new drafts (after the last two FA signings):

*Re-sign LeRoy Hill. PLEASE.

1) Luke Kuechly, MLB, Boston College
2) Vinny Curry, DE, Marshall (trade-up perhaps)
3) Omar Bolden, CB, Arizona State
4) Davin Meggett, RB, Maryland

Or

*Hopefully sign a MLB

1) Melvin Ingram, DE, South Carolina
2) Mychal Kendricks, LB, Cal
3) LaMichael James, RB, Oregon
4) Travis Lewis, LB, Oklahoma

I think our needs are as obvious as it gets:

LB (maybe two)
DE
RB
CB
OG

In that order.

villagewarrior
03-23-2012, 10:52 AM
I've got Melvin Ingram and David DeCastro sitting there at 12, who do the Seahawks take?

asdf1223
03-23-2012, 08:36 PM
Ingram for me. They spent consecutive first round picks on OL. 3 is way too much.

Caulibflower
03-24-2012, 12:59 AM
But... David DeCastro is better, and we have a starting spot at G, and not necessarily at defensive end. Ingram would probably be rotating. It's all about adding talent, and especially where you need it - can't just get bored with drafting guys who don't post stats. They're important, and DeCastro could really take our run game up another notch - Gallery might've been the weakest point at an already pretty decent rush attack.

summond822
03-24-2012, 06:14 PM
Your still talking about spending 3 consecutive 1st round picks on OL. That is unprecedented, when really, how much of an upgrade is DeCastro going to be over a McQuistan? Not that much based on how well he played at the end of last year.

As opposed to Ingram being an upgrade over Raheem Brock (3 sacks last year).

Elite pass rushers are harder to find than elite interior linemen. Most really good center/guard prospects aren't even considered 1st round picks.

Caulibflower
03-26-2012, 03:36 PM
Do you want a starter or a rotational player with the 12th pick? Do you want a player who's going to make an impact throughout the game, or just on particular plays? I agree the pass rush needs to be upgraded, but I'm just not big on Ingram for our team, considering the guys we already have. I'll say it again - Jason Jones is capable of playing a role very similar to what we'd be having Ingram do. We did address the position. He'll be replacing Raheem Brock, if not pushing Red Bryant, too. As for the draft, a guy like Mychal Kendricks can add pass rush blitzing up the middle - he was terrific at that in college, and fills a LB need. There's going to be guys like Whitey Mercilus and Nick Perry in round 2 (I think they're more second-round types), and if not them, Vinny Curry and others. I'm talking specifically about need and value at #12, and if it's Ingram vs. DeCastro, with the departure of Robert Gallery and the addition of Jason Jones, DeCastro makes more sense to me. Particularly in light of the fact that some people hold the opinion that he's one of the best guards to come out in awhile. People just expect Ingram to be a solid player. Id rather have the better player, and then fill other needs as necessary later. You can't just say, "I'd rather have a pass-rusher than a guard."

summond822
03-26-2012, 11:04 PM
You bring up good points and I agree with some of them (we'll have to agree to disagree on Jones).

The thing is, most rookies (DE, WR, & QB's especially) do not come into the league and make an impact. I look at Ingram and I see us using him like the 49ers used Aldon Smith (the type of player I think they really want for the LEO) this last year. He is a situational pass rusher early in his career. I think eventually Ingram can develop into a 3-4 rush backer where when he is on the field you have to account for him, but he may not be rushing every play.

I actually see Ingram as a LB down the road as opposed to a DE. But I am willing to take the gamble on him developing (key word here) into an impact player and a starter.

DeCastro comes in day 1 and starts. I think he is almost maxed out, so what you see year 1 is going to be slightly less than what he should be in his prime. I mean people point to the fall off after Hutchison left as the sign of what an All-Pro guard can do, but honestly, to even begin to be worth the #12 pick DeCastro has to be playing at a level of a perennial Pro Bowler.

I just can't see how we could take an OG at 12. I just can't. This team is based on defense and running the ball. DeCastro helps with running the ball, but our defense is not elite yet. We can't win Super Bowls without an elite defense. We need talent to help this defense take that next step. Sacking the QB.

gpngc
03-27-2012, 01:14 AM
I have struggled with both sides of the DeCastro/DE argument.

The main reason I think ultimately I side with DeCastro, despite how crazy it would be to spend yet another premium pick on OL is that I simply don't love any of these DEs.

I don't know about Kuechly though. Why not just take him?

Caulibflower
03-29-2012, 04:25 PM
I have struggled with both sides of the DeCastro/DE argument.

The main reason I think ultimately I side with DeCastro, despite how crazy it would be to spend yet another premium pick on OL is that I simply don't love any of these DEs.

I don't know about Kuechly though. Why not just take him?

I know Keuchley's highly-rated and no one would rag on the Seahawks for taking him, because he fills a need, too - But he's never impressed me. I haven't watched a ton of tape, but I've watched some, and he doesn't pop out at me. I know who he is because of the little scouting circle that pops up over him before the play starts. He gets washed out by blockers and doesn't look particularly violent to me. He's a tackling machine with speed. To tell the truth, I feel a little Aaron Curry about him. Respected teammate, great athlete... I don't know. I don't really see the fire about him I like in my MLB. I actually like Mychal Kendricks a lot better. I'm low on Keuchly and high on Kendricks. From what I've seen, I'd be totally ok with Kendricks in the second, and would be thrilled if we nabbed him in the third.

To breifly reiterate my DeCastro argument - it's as simple as this:

DeCastro profiles as a Pro Bowl guard. He would start from day 1 and be an upgrade, not only because our starter wasn't great, but because our starter left.

Ingram profiles as a rotational player who gives you positional versatility. He's 6'1", 270 and runs about a 4.8. We just signed a guy who was picked in the second round only a few years ago after measuring out at 6'5", 275 and running mid 4.7 forties. He offers positional versatility and pass rush. He's also a much better fit for our 4-3 than Ingram is. With prospects you can always speculate that they'll be great, but the fact is we just signed a freak athlete with a reputation as a very solid player for the same role Ingram would hypotheticall hold. I just don't see why you'd double-dip with a position you just addressed when there's a superior player (held against his peers at the same position) available on the board that addresses a more pressing need.

Other than DeCastro, if we're going to pick a lineman, I'd be much more inclined to go Michael Brockers or Fletcher Cox. Both pass-rushing defensive tackles, but with better size than Ingram - both of these guys are true defensive tackles. If we want to go "pure pass rusher," I think you also have to be thinking of trading down. I just don't like any of the guys on the board at #12. If you want a fast edge rusher, you'll be reaching at #12. I suppose if you ask me, the only edge rusher who even really intrigues me this draft is Nick Perry, and he's a second-rounder in my eyes. This is a bad year for rush ends. I'd rather not force a pick.

I wouldn't be terribly unhappy if we took Michael Floyd. I think Seattle's got a locker room that's pretty cohesive, and might be willing to take a gamble here. Rice has had persistent health problems, and getting a no. 1, big-bodied wideout with speed, and the addition of Matt Flynn, could take this passing attack up TWO levels. We have a great cast of supporting receivers, but unless Sidney Rice suddely reverts to his 2010 form, and can stay healthy, that's going to remain a need. When your number one has several "ifs" about him, you're not out of line to be thinking of taking a top wideout in the draft. Problem with Floyd is there are "ifs" about him, too.

And I'll finish with someone I'm certain will get poo-poo'd -

I still really like Tannehill. Flynn is no sure thing, and his contract is flexible. Tannehill has huge upside, and having the QBs we do gives us a really good situation to draft the high-upside guy, let him learn for a year or two, and then re-evaluate the position - Developing QBs can be an investment that provides fantastic returns, as starting-caliber QBs are already in demand. I don't love most of the picks that make sense at #12, but I've been high on Tannehill for a long time. But you all probably know that. I don't think there's anything about Flynn that should make our front office pass on a QB if one they really like comes around, but of course you always have to be thinking about what benefits your team now as well as later. Tannehill would certainly be a "later"-minded pick, but like I say - if there's not a guy at #12 I'm excited about, I'd be the crazy GM who's sort of waiting to see if Tannehill makes it through the Cleveland-Kansas City-Miami gauntlet.

summond822
03-31-2012, 12:23 AM
Actually the more tape I watch of my 3 top pass rushers (Coples, Upshaw, and Ingram), the more I am starting to want Upshaw. He makes plays in space, he is violent with his hands, has good speed (4.7 at 280), and is just plain nasty.

That said, if Coples is there at 12 (which I doubt) I think the Seahawks take him (not my preference). Physically he is everything you want in a pass rusher, but I keep thinking Vernon Gholston every time I see him. Pete probably thinks that he can force him to buy into the system and get greatness out of him.

Again we'll disagree on Jones, who I feel is purely a DT. Sliding him out to DE is what resulted in him having a bad year this year. We also know I don't feel like DeCastro is worth a Top 15 pick.

Brockers is just another Mebane/Branch (especially when he shows up at the combine with NT weight). He is a big guy who clogs the interior of the line but isn't going to add much to the pass rush. Cox however does intrigue me. I think he could add to the pass rush, I'm very unsure if it is going to translate to the NFL however.

I think the Seahawks are trying to make sure teams know they are interested in Tannehill if he is at 12. I think they would like to trade down, and if Tannehill is still on the board, they may get an offer. Just keep in mind that they showed up to Mallett's pro day last year and worked out Clausen even though they had no interest in either QB so being at Tannehill's pro day may not mean anything. Also they could have been scouting Fuller.

And finally I think we may be surprised with who they pick we do in fact trade down this year. I am actually thinking that they may be targeting Colby Fleener. Pete has said he wants to use 2 TE sets, and with the success of Gronk & Hernandez in NE, it could add value to having that second TE. At his pro day they took him off to the side for a private conversation. I don't remember who the Seahawks personnel were, but when I find it I'll link it.

EDIT: Found it
Pic of Fleener + Seahawk Coach (http://yfrog.com/kfqogfyj)

Can't be confirmed but speculation is that it's Pat McPherson our TE coach. Only other possible match for that head of hair is Darrel Bevell. Can't confirm since they don't have height/weight for the coaches.

Caulibflower
04-01-2012, 07:46 PM
After watching Ingram's pro day workout and hearing Mike Mayock gush about him (including his apparantly terrific hands), I'm starting to think he may be physically talented enough to warrant the pick as BPA, which had been my problem with taking him up to that point. I suppose I'd thought of him as more of an "effort player" being undersized, but I feel like I'm realizing he could play DT, DE and OLB (And take direct snaps on special teams, etc.) because he's a terrific athlete at 270 lbs. He's a bit shorter than I like for his position (height and arms), but if you are telling me I could be getting a (possibly) more athletic version of LaMarr Woodley or Adalius Thomas for our defense, that doesn't sound too bad. I do still wonder how he'd fit into our defense, though. Would the Seahawks gameplan specifically around his skillset? I guess if he's that good, I want him, but if he's not... where does he fit?

Haven't watched a whole lot of Upshaw, but he'd basically be a pure 4-3 base end, right? Essentially Red Bryant's position? The problem I have with that is that Red Bryant is 1. good, and 2. a run-stuffer. I don't really have the impression that Upshaw is a dynamic pass rush threat, so if you're rotating a guy with Bryant I'd want to be sure that's what Upshaw can bring.

So Ingram's stock is on the rise for me. I really didn't think I'd be saying this a few months ago, but Brock Osweiler in the third doesn't sound like too bad of an idea to me anymore. I'm not thrilled about him, but we're nowhere near set at the position and I'd feel better about a third for Osweiler than I was when I learned we were trading one for Whitehurst, that's for sure. The only reason I suggest Osweiler is because our current projected starter, Flynn, is a totally unknown commodity and by the time we know what he is, we can have groomed another QB as a backup plan. If Flynn is good, we keep the QB in the fold and we've got a good backup, or we trade him. If he's bad, the formerly raw prospect who's been groomed for a year or two, or whatever, gets a shot.

Still would rather draft Kendricks a round or two later than Keuchly at 12. Still want Doug Martin to end up on the team. For what we need and what we're looking at, trading down sounds good, too.

summond822
04-02-2012, 10:37 PM
Actually of the 2, Upshaw is better in space right now because he did it at Alabama. He isn't as fast/quick as Ingram, but he makes reads quicker and is more instinctive and that makes up for it. He also has a great bull rush.

As for how we use them, think of how Pete used Clay Matthews at USC. I think that is how he wants to use them. Someone who can blitz, rush with their hand on the ground, and cover. I think that they already have it built into the defense, they have just been looking for the right guy to plug in there.

Upshaw vs LSU NC (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2NGJD_naF0)

I like this tape because it shows Upshaw having to react to LSU's run game instead of just rushing the passer. I think my favorite is when he stops the option by himself at around 0:50.

gpngc
04-03-2012, 01:28 AM
I think we may take Kendricks at 12. Or trade down and take him.

Caulibflower
04-03-2012, 03:46 PM
Wouldn't mind at all. It might be higher than people expect him to go, but we're talking about a guy that could be an impact player immediately at a position of need. I'd be excited to see how Pete Carroll works him into blitz packages. If we could trade down and grab him int he early twenties or something, that'd be a great start to our draft. Did you hear that somewhere?

Smash28Dash34
04-05-2012, 09:27 PM
Hey sup guys I'm going to be drafting for the Seahawks in the 2nd Annual 5 Rounds in 5 Days Mock Draft and I thought of seeking the advice of the guys that know this team best. I have been thinking of a couple different directions for the first two rounds I just wanted to get everyones opinion.

Caulibflower
04-06-2012, 06:12 PM
Hey sup guys I'm going to be drafting for the Seahawks in the 2nd Annual 5 Rounds in 5 Days Mock Draft and I thought of seeking the advice of the guys that know this team best. I have been thinking of a couple different directions for the first two rounds I just wanted to get everyones opinion.

I came back to the team thread with a related topic, so I'll piggy back onto this. Obviously, my Seahawk's fantasy mock is my sig, and I'm curious as to other Seahawkers' thoughts on it at this point in the process.

Regarding your question specifically, Smash&Dash:

It's a pretty solid team without glaring weaknesses, so I'm inclined towards the BPA approach even more than usual. That said, (and as my sig indicates) some guys I'd really like to bring into camp are a legit backup for Marshawn (I looooove Doug Martin, but a guy like Turbin or Polk in the middle rounds wouldn't be bad, either, although I don't like either of them nearly as much as Martin; Martin, to me, is a guy who could switch roles or replace Marshawn in a couple years, while those guys would be drafted just thinking "backups." Another guy, although he doesn't really profile as the kind of running back we need - I think I like Edwin Baker more than most people.) We could use a pass rusher, but this isn't a great draft for that and if we pick one early we'll probably be reaching. If Malcolm Floyd is there at 12 and some of the other guys we'd like, like DeCastro or Melvin Ingram are gone, (or even if they're not, really), a no. 1 wideout is something that would benefit this team. Yes, we have Sidney Rice, but he's injury prone and made his reputation on one season. He's got to do that a few more times before I stop thinking we need a number one. And hell, Atlanta just traded their draft for Julio Jones when they already had Roddy White, so it's not unprecedented even if you've got an established corps. Malcolm Floyd could do a lot, I think. We're weak at linebacker, so Kuechly is a realistic option, although I've become more of a Kendricks guy.

So aside from those specific names, here's our current depth chart, basically, on a talent level:

QB: 1. (relatively unknown, perceived upside) 2. (low-level starter) 3. (young project)
RB: 1. (Pro Bowler, power runner, decent hands) 2. (change of pace/3rd down back) 3. (change of pace/3rd down back, returner)
FB: 1. (Pro Bowler, decent player)
WR: 1. (Athletic, skinny, medium-speed, injury-prone, great hands) 2. (Big-body, slow, strong, inconsistent hands) 3. (slot-type, very quick, good speed, good hands, small) 4. (average, average, average) 5. (developing player, can make spectacular catches, inconsistent, good run after the catch, some return ability) 6. (tall, fast project)
TE: 1. (Former Pro Bowler, good blocker, good receiver, not very fast) 2. (Mediocre player, can catch a bit, little production thus far)

LT: (Young player, talented, injury-prone, Pro Bowl potential)
LG: (open, for all intents and purposes)
C: (decent player, a little underpowered, injuries)
RG: (Underwhelming rookie last year who suffered an ACL tear midway through the season)
RT: (average)

DEFENSE:

RE: (team's best pure pass-rusher. Has been effective at getting to the QB the last two years, but isn't terribly distinguished in run support. Not that he's terrible)
DT: (Big body, average production. Nose-type.) DT/DE 2: (Swing player, can defend the run or pass but is more DT than DE.)
DT: (smaller body, disruptive player. nose-type.)
LE: (Huge, big-bodied player who looks like a DT, but sets the edge against the run and is great against it. Not a pass rusher.)

OLB: (open)
MLB: (open)
OLB: (Good player)

CB: 1. (rookie last year, tall, surprisingly good, gets hands on a lot of balls, occasionally gives up big plays.) 2. (athletic, developmental player)
CB: (Canadian import, starting for the first time last year, huge for a cornerback, big hitter, good in coverage, breaks up a lot of passes, 2 defensive TDs last year)
FS: (Pro Bowler, on the small side, good in coverage, good enough in run support)
SS: (Pro Bowler, enormous, plays like a linebacker but is fluid enough to be an effective strong safety, makes big plays)

Return: (not much)

Caulibflower
04-14-2012, 05:33 PM
Was thinking about our linebackers again; We might not need a starter this year. K.J. Wright can play in the middle, Hill is a pretty good OLB, and Malcolm Smith is an undersized athletic freak at WLB - I was just watching some college highlights of him, and he really gets around. 6'0" 225, but really strong and fast, and comes from a program that's produced several starting linebackers in the last couple of years. And Pete Carroll obviously coached all those guys, so if he thinks Smith could start, he'd be the one to know.

summond822
04-15-2012, 02:25 PM
The real x-factor is Smith. If Carroll thinks that he can step in and start this year, we may be looking at BPA picks for both 1st & 2nd round. I still like Kendricks in the 2nd and would love to see us take him there, but now if Doug Martin is still there (seems unlikely) be hard to pass him.

summond822
04-21-2012, 11:11 AM
Anyone else preparing for the fallout from the pick? I was realizing these past couple of days that while we may know what the Seahawks want, we don't know in what form they are going to go out and get it. 2 years ago they wanted Eric Berry & Trent Williams and instead got Okung & Thomas (not complaining). Last year they wanted to trade down and instead grabbed Carpenter.

I'm just starting to mentally prepare myself that whoever the Seahawks pick is probably not going to be who everyone is expecting/wants them to pick.

summond822
04-26-2012, 09:59 PM
Well...in the interest of trying to avoid people from jumping off of bridges...some lovely quotes that make me slightly more excited about taking Irvin.

http://www.bloggingtheboys.com/2012/4/2/2920139/bruce-irvin-ive-never-been-taught-how-to-pass-rush
Bruce Irvin: "It doesn't matter to me. I feel like, to be honest with you, I've never been taught how to pass rush. The last two years, the 23 sacks that I got, it was all natural ability. Not to knock my coaches, but they emphasized stopping the run, and that's what we did. We never did any pass rushing drills. I feel like, with the proper coaching and the right people around me I feel like I can be a very productive player in this league."

https://twitter.com/#!/dannyoneil/status/195699895116632065
"I love eating quarterbacks," said Bruce Irvin in media conference call.

This one was predraft and speculation is that the 9ers were targeting him.
http://www.fantasysp.com/player/nfl/Bruce_Irvin/2211329/according-to-nfl-networks-michael-lombardi-west-virginia-olb
According to NFL Network's Michael Lombardi, West Virginia OLB Bruce Irvin was told by a team in the bottom third of the draft order that he will be picked in the first round

And when it came to having to explain why I was upset with the pick to my dad who was right there...
He's a pass rusher. He's probably the best pure pass rusher in this draft...but that's all he does

Bruce Irvin on KJR
https://twitter.com/#!/SportsRadioKJR/status/195700573423673344
"I'm going to do great stuff for this organization. The sky's the limit for me"

And of course the ultimate way to get excited about a player. Listening to Carroll gush about him.
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/seahawksblog/2018081264_videogmschneidercoachpetecarrolltalkabo utbruceirvin.html

Only took me an hour and a half to start getting excited about this guy. He's going to be used exclusively as a LEO (I mean he's even listed as LEO on seahawks.com) where all he has to do is pin his ears back and get to the QB. I'm not going to say he has 10+ sacks this year, but I would not be surprised if he had 5-8.

703SKINS202
04-26-2012, 11:08 PM
You guys got a great player. Character concerns are hyped. Natural pass rusher who just gets after the quarterback relentlessly due to his great leverage. Better against the run than people give him credit for.

summond822
04-27-2012, 12:44 AM
I am just going to say that the Seahawks are going to get killed for taking Irvin in the draft grades. That said they were killed last year as well (D+ from Kiper. He changed it to a B+ after 1 season) and ended up with Carpenter, Moffitt, Wright, Sherman, and Baldwin all starting.

At the end of the day we need to have faith in Pete Carroll & John Schneider. I mean they've only gone 3 for 3 on 1st round picks starting. They know what they want and they stuck to it. We got a 3rd down pass rush specialist (this year), but so was Aldon Smith a year ago at 7. Bruce Irvin is our eventual successor to Clemons but for now, he just gets to do what he does best, get to the QB.

And honestly the more I think about taking Irvin over Ingram, Coples, Jones, etc. the more I love the thinking behind it. Every single one of the other pass rushers had questions regarding their ability to get to the QB in the NFL. Irvin was always going to be a pass rusher regardless of the team that took him. He may be a boom-or-bust prospect, but speed rushers with high motors tend to do well in the NFL.

And again sticking with my "make everyone feel better" theme
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/04/26/at-least-seve-teams-had-bruce-irvin-in-top-15/

Caulibflower
04-27-2012, 03:25 AM
...Aldon Smith?

EDIT: Just realized you mentioned Aldon Smith in the above post, too. The stylistic similarities between are actually pretty striking. To be perfectly honest, I don't know if I watched any of Bruce Irvin's tape leading up to the draft. But I saw some things today that made me give a "not bad" face. Little Von Miller-ish, too. I just hope he keeps his head on his shoulders.

Caulibflower
04-27-2012, 10:34 PM
Second year in a row the Cal player I really wanted went the pick before us. Bobby Wagner looks a lot like Aaron Curry to me on tape. In the second round, maybe that's not such a terrible thing. Russell Wilson was my 4th-rated QB, so I'm alright with the pick. I wouldn't have expected it with the Flynn signing, but he's got a good arm, great accuracy, especially on the run, and might be the most elusive pocket passer we've seen in years - he can buy a loooooot of time, and it's exactly what he needs to be able to do to compensate for his height. So we'll see. It's an intriguing pick to me.

gpngc
04-27-2012, 10:36 PM
I really want to know if they would have taken Kendricks over Wagner had he not gone the pick before...

Caulibflower
04-28-2012, 12:03 AM
Yeah. I figure Bobby Wagner will at least compete for a starting spot and provide depth, but I feel like Kendricks would have had a much bigger impact. But that's the draft for ya! But it occurred to me - I think I even had Russell Wilson going to us in the 4th in my sig-mock at one point, so I actually feel pretty good about our QBs right now. This is the scenario where I'm glad to have Tarvaris Jackson on the roster. There are two other QBs to compete with who all have a legitimate claim to starting ability, yet are unproven. They're all pretty mobile guys. If Flynn can't beat out Tarvaris, it means we at least have a mediocre QB. We're not in dire straits - we still just will want to upgrade. With Russell Wilson, I feel like we'll know right away whether he can play. I'm going to call it right now - I think he'll be a preseason superstar. But whether or not that translates into being a starting-caliber QB will just be a matter of waiting for him to get his opportunity to see.

Caulibflower
04-28-2012, 12:06 AM
What would you guys think of trading up for the local guy Ta'Amu at this point?

Clemons, Jones, Ta'Amu, Mebane, Irvin? Run a little 5-2 ?

Caulibflower
04-28-2012, 12:03 PM
Really like picking up Turbin and Howard.

Caulibflower
04-28-2012, 12:45 PM
nXtU2cNe99k

I like this draft so far.

Caulibflower
04-28-2012, 02:06 PM
Another terrific athlete in Toomer. Are we the new Raiders...?

0_0

summond822
04-28-2012, 04:22 PM
I love their philosophy on late round picks. They go out and get guys who are phenomenal athletes who are being dropped for some reason (too big for a CB/S, hasn't played much, etc.). More likely than not these guys are just going to be special teams players, but if they can become more than that, you have so much value.

If they bust, oh well they didn't have a good chance of working out. But if they do work out...

I am surprised we haven't taken any WR's yet though.

Caulibflower
04-28-2012, 06:30 PM
I think with the WRs it's a matter of getting a "no. 1" - we're already pretty deep. Especially if Sidney Rice comes back healthy next year.

But I think we might now be really seeing what Pete Carroll plans to do with this team - it's sort of all coming together for me on this draft. It's all about hybrid players and formations that can bring pressure or support from different angles. We can now play varieties of 3-4 defense, 4-3 defense and 5-2 defense. It's just going to be a matter of the situation and how we want to defend it; we've got big bodies, we've got fast players, and I love the Jaye Howard pick, because he could be the wildcard D-lineman that means it doesn't matter if having Clemons, Jones, Mebane, Howard and Irvin on the field all at once means we're playing "3-4" or "5-2;" it's about what a player can do, and our line suddenly is made up of players who are extremely scheme-diverse. Then you start talking about our linebackers, and you have Smith, who's a 4.4 guy, Bobby Wagner, who's a 4.4 guy, and while KJ Wright and Hill are already proven starters, you're adding yet another extremely gifted athlete into the mix with Korey Toomer - if he'd gone to the combine, he'd have blown it up. I'm sure people have looked it up, but for anyone who hasn't, here are his Pro Day numbers:

6'2" 235 (a little light, but the height is perfect and he might have room to grow a little.)

4.53 40, which I won't compare to the combine times because the discrepancies are always biggest with 40 times. But things that don't change as much...

10'10" broad jump would've been best among linebackers and 5th overall

4.00 short shuttle would've been best among linebackers by nearly a tenth of a second and 10th out of all prospects, all positions

42" vert would've been best among linebackers and 2nd out of everyone.

That kind of athleticism for a 5th round pick? OK!

Oh, and last year he played inside and outside linebacker, defensive end, nickel DB and a little fullback. All-WAC with almost 70 tackles, double-digit TFL and 4 sacks. I'm liking the way the Seahawks drafted this year.

Also, I've watched some Winston Guy footage after seeing they picked him, and he's a perfect developmental understudy for Kam Chancellor. Same questions coming out about whether he can be an NFL DB, but our scheme protects him and allows him to play like a deep rover. Like Kam, Guy's a big-bodied safety who can play up at the line and move all around the field. Kam's surprisingly good in coverage and faster than Guy - Guy doesn't have the speed to play with his back to the ball - But he does enough things that I think the Seahawks will be able to rotate him in for a few plays at a time if Kam needs a breather. And I mean, that's just as important to consider at the later stages of the draft; it's not about getting superstars, but players who are going to make your superstars better. This is another pick that I might not like for most teams, but with the way Pete Carroll is designing our defense I think it makes a lot of sense. Irvin's not really a "Defensive End;" they're going to line him up everywhere, standing up or with his hand down. He has a job. Guy's not going to just be a "safety," but he'll rove around the field alternating between run blitzing and hanging in a deep zone. He'll never be on the field on obvious passing downs, but he's an aggressive tackler who'll have some value as depth. Really stoked about his draft. Got three guys I'd fantasy mocked to us, and more or less in the rounds I wanted them: I'd had Russell Wilson, Turbin and Jaye Howard all going to us in the 4th at one point or another. Losing out on Kendrick's explosiveness is disappointing, but he doesn't have much, if anything, on Bobby Wagner from an athleticism standpoint. I'd still rather have Kendricks, but Wagner isn't terrible compensation. Called Turbin a poor-man's Marshawn in the comparison thread, so I'm just fine with that. But I think a more precise comparison is LaMont Jordan, and having him and Marshawn Lynch together is a backfield I'm pretty excited about. They both run hard and can catch the ball. Wasn't thrilled about last year's draft, but that's not the case this time around. I'd say my confidence in Pete Carroll is growing a bit.

gpngc
04-28-2012, 06:34 PM
Don't need receivers because Kris Durham.

As for Toomer's workout #s... are those inflated or something?

Caulibflower
04-29-2012, 01:32 AM
Don't need receivers because Kris Durham.

As for Toomer's workout #s... are those inflated or something?

Who knows? It's what's reported as his pro day #s on nfldraftscout. Regardless, we got a loooooot faster and more athletic on our defense, which was already pretty good.

Caulibflower
04-29-2012, 09:22 AM
I'm watching some video of Lavasier Tuinei again since we brought him in as a UDFA, and here's what I'm seeing:

Really tall, really long, rangy player with huge hands and a very wide catching radius. But he's not simply long - he knows how to use that length to reach for and snag balls that are out of his reach. He's a hands catcher, and he's got great coordination and body control, and you see him tapping both feet in the end zone, even in college. What you don't see is any kind of route running at all. Not even a little bit. He's not sudden at all running down the field, either running deep routes or meandering through wide-open spaces in the middle of the field. He does seem to have the requisite timed speed, especially for his size, but he's not a speed receiver, and he shows no route running ability. But his catching range and hands are really intriguing, I think. Makes me wonder if there could even be a use for him immediately in goal line situations and all-go type plays where everyone already knows the ball's just going to get thrown up in the air for someone to come down with.

He's a UDFA, so I'll preface this with "a very poor man's," but watching him I thought "Plaxico Burress."

Caulibflower
04-29-2012, 09:27 AM
__6dwDilIl4

Obviously it's a highlight video so you're not seeing negative plays, but some of those catches he makes are basically un-denfendable.

Caulibflower
04-29-2012, 09:39 AM
8yE21QPF9CE

2:35.

And besides the fact that he looks like he's on an entirely different level than his competition... these are his freshman and sophomore highlights. Really liking what I see in this video. He's a really violent hitter, especially for a cornerback. But he's yet another guy this year who's got incredible athleticism; he's been playing CB in college at 6'1" 220, and also SS, FS and some linebacker. Ran a 4.53 and had a 6.76 3-cone drill - when you watch him in the video, he's got the hips Mayock is always raving about. It's always just a question of ability to transition with the small-school guys, but I see a really smooth, sudden athlete who really likes to pop offensive players. You see him straight-arming wideouts to the ground when a running play goes to the other side of the field and they're giving a half-assed blocking attempt. I like that.

Caulibflower
04-29-2012, 09:51 AM
but yeah... I haven't been able to sleep to...day? tonight? last night? I don't know. But I did some homework on the UDFA's and Tuinei and Shead are the two that look the most roster-worthy to me. We are pretty deep at wideout though, so someone would have to go. Might depend on how Tuinei compares to Durham in training camp.

summond822
04-29-2012, 05:51 PM
http://imgs.sfgate.com/c/pictures/2012/03/08/sp-turbin09_PH1_WRE0107122227.jpg

So I was reading an article about Turbin, and I saw this picture. Those arms just made me stop and say "Holy ****".

Is there a way to make the pic smaller?

Jimmy
04-29-2012, 09:25 PM
so ******* jealous. you guys got two of my favorite players in this year's draft. turbin and wagner. and irvin is gonna be a contender for DROY.

guess i have a back up team in madden this year

Caulibflower
05-15-2012, 05:21 PM
Not gonna lie, getting more and more excited about this season. Already had a solid team, now have a legitimate three-way competition for starting QB. Russell Wilson is starting to excite me. I liked him a lot before the draft, and it's looking more and more like the only bad thing people can find to say about him is the "HT" number next to his name. (But he's got huge hands!) He's a tremendous athlete, he's going to be able to move around to find throwing lanes, he improvises well, and for Pete Carroll to say he's just as much in the starting battle after one minicamp as Tarvaris and Flynn says a lot.

Irvin, by all acounts looked good in minicamp and Carroll was raving, as usual, about his speed, but also said something else that I liked - said he was asking a lot of questions at team meetings - "good questions." Turbin's got people talking, and as much as I would've preferred Kendricks over Wagner, and as much as he reminds me of Aaron Curry, he's fast, he's rangy, he's stout and could very well turn into another good player. I haven't heard much about him from minicamp, but I liked what I saw when I was watching Winston Guy's gamefilm from Kentucky and am excited to see what kinds of defensive packages Pete Carroll is going to come up with. Really, really liking the way our defense is starting to look (And Trufant's back!), and the offense has gotten a shot in the arm, too.

Caulibflower
08-25-2012, 01:16 PM
Yeah. I figure Bobby Wagner will at least compete for a starting spot and provide depth, but I feel like Kendricks would have had a much bigger impact. But that's the draft for ya! But it occurred to me - I think I even had Russell Wilson going to us in the 4th in my sig-mock at one point, so I actually feel pretty good about our QBs right now. This is the scenario where I'm glad to have Tarvaris Jackson on the roster. There are two other QBs to compete with who all have a legitimate claim to starting ability, yet are unproven. They're all pretty mobile guys. If Flynn can't beat out Tarvaris, it means we at least have a mediocre QB. We're not in dire straits - we still just will want to upgrade. With Russell Wilson, I feel like we'll know right away whether he can play. I'm going to call it right now - I think he'll be a preseason superstar. But whether or not that translates into being a starting-caliber QB will just be a matter of waiting for him to get his opportunity to see.

Sort of feel like bumping this draft-day comment. For some reason.