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derza222
05-04-2011, 03:04 PM
May as well start the talk early, right? Lots of uncertainty moving forward, I could see targeting any number of positions early in the draft depending on what happens with free agents. Getting a pass rusher will hopefully be a priority. Safety is a question mark but I'm not sure how much they'll focus on that, should be interesting there. Obviously big free agents at wide receiver and corner so it really depends on who gets re-signed. Then there's some uncertainty on the OL moving forward with Slauson and Ducasse and if things don't work out well clearly Sanchez has to be protected. Other than that maybe a blocking TE, depth at ILB, can't ever hurt to go DL but that's looking good...it'll be interesting to see what happens. What are your guys' thoughts on 2012?

Hurricanes25
05-04-2011, 04:52 PM
As of right now, I think OLB and S have to be our two biggest needs going into next years draft. I say that because I don't think free agency is going to solve either position.

Blitzing 7 guys is eventually going to burn us. It's time to address OLB. If this means we'll have to trade up, then we have to do it. At least the pass rushing class looks good.

Saftey, I would say is our 2nd biggest need. A ballhawk would do wonders for this defense. Hell, we could even upgrade Leonhard.

derza222
05-04-2011, 05:45 PM
As of right now, I think OLB and S have to be our two biggest needs going into next years draft. I say that because I don't think free agency is going to solve either position.

Blitzing 7 guys is eventually going to burn us. It's time to address OLB. If this means we'll have to trade up, then we have to do it. At least the pass rushing class looks good.

Saftey, I would say is our 2nd biggest need. A ballhawk would do wonders for this defense. Hell, we could even upgrade Leonhard.

I think Leonhard may be a FA after the upcoming season as well - if memory serves he signed a 3 year deal. The one thing about safety is that it may be a play where perhaps a good but not elite talent could do really good things, with how good the defense could be around the safeties it's almost a matter of being in the right place at the right time.

That said if an absolute stud safety is available and there's no options at pass rusher I wouldn't mind going in that direction early. Very curious about how Kyle Wilson plays, who potentially steps up as a third corner depending on who gets re-signed there, and how the passing game is as well.

Hurricanes25
08-31-2011, 02:37 PM
Scott has us taking OLB Brandon Jenkins from Florida State in his first 2012 mock draft. On August 31, that looks like a really good pick. I don't think our pass rush is going to get any better this season so we very well may take an OLB come April.

Hurricanes25
10-05-2011, 06:42 PM
OLB, S, G, RT all look like pretty big needs now.

WR is a possibility with Mason and Plax on the roster.

RB and NT are other positions we could look at.

derza222
10-07-2011, 05:56 PM
Eric Smith is terrible. I want Brodney Pool starting again, but another safety is definitely a big need. If it was a premium position I think it would be the top need on the team by far. Safety play has been atrocious. The pass rush is bad too, but they've been more or less getting away with manufacturing that for awhile. I'd definitely be fine with taking an OLB, but one way or another Smith has to go I think.

Really the defense isn't that much of a problem, it's the offense that loses games, which is why OL is probably what I'd like to see addressed most. With good line play the passing game improves and hopefully they can plug and chug some mid-round RB's and get good production.

Definitely think WR could get a look as well, but veteran may be the better move with all of the other needs on the team. Unless the team completely tanks and ends up in the top 10 (which is certainly a possibility) I think a need at another spot can be better filled in terms of value, and even so in the top 10 OLB is a good option. You're not getting an elite talent at WR outside of that range anyway though, and they take time to develop too. I'd rather bring a solid possession type #2 as a veteran and let Kerley grow into the #3 role, particularly since Keller is basically a rocked up WR anyway and pretty much Sanchez's favorite target.

I'd be for an elite RB to an extent, but with the line play being an issue I'd rather fix that first and hope an average talent can put up big numbers behind the improved OL. As far as NT goes, I think Ellis is probably the NT of the future, so not sure I'd go in that direction early. I know they like MTV too. A jumbo athletic guy who can move around on the line a little would be cool, but honestly is probably a luxury pick. I think right now Wilkerson-Pouha-DeVito and down the road Wilkerson-Ellis-DeVito is fine for the three starting defensive linemen. DeVito's still just 27 and has been very, very good at stopping the run, he was elite last year. Another DL would be cool, but I think all of the other positions fill more of an immediate need and more of a long-term need. Granted RB and S aren't that valued in terms of draft position, but OLB and OL certainly are (though I guess you could argue RT and LG aren't).

All I know is based on the way the line's playing, if they could grab a guard or a tackle in the first round and another in the second, it would go a long way towards helping this team. Any first round guard basically has a shot to be elite, and a first round right tackle is pretty much elite for a RT as well. Second rounders at those spots should be really good players as well. Then hopefully the offensive line is set besides an eventual replacement for Moore, don't have to worry about Sanchez getting destroyed in the pocket and hopefully the run game gets moving again. Think that would make the biggest impact on the team, even if one of them gets picked in the third round or something. Spend other picks on a safety and another body at RB, then work on depth elsewhere, maybe a NT or a project OLB or CB. Even a blocking tight end. But shore up the offensive line, and find somebody who can cover from the safety spot. Anything else is gravy. And I'd make an exception for a legitimate potential 10 sack a year guy, but would like to see OL drafted in the next 2 rounds. If Ducasse ever ends up being a player Moore will probably be gone by then so he can be his successor, no interest in waiting around for him to fill the LG or RT slots. We've been spoiled by good line play, and I want it back.

Robcards
10-08-2011, 11:40 AM
I completely disagree with most of this. Here's our first round pick: NT
Pouha will be a free agent next year and has been awful, our run defense needs immediate attention and I just don't see anyone that would fit our scheme well coming out of free agency, so the Jets draft Ta'amu, Worthy, or Chapman round 1. Most rankings I've seen show either Curry or Taylor being available round 2 for the Jets so they can draft a pass rushing 4-3 DE and convert them to 3-4 OLB, since Bryan Thomas is also in his contract year. I really don't understand why you would think safety would be a need, but even if it is, there aren't any 1st round worthy safeties this year, they MIGHT draft one later in the draft, but certainly not 1st or 2nd round, they'd sign a free agent safety before they reached for one early in the draft. I also am fairly certain they will resign Leonhard, they better, I have his authentic jersey. LG and RT are also needs but I'd rather they fill those with free agency.

Here's how I have the Jets 2012 draft going:

1. NT (Ta'amu, Worthy, Chapman)
2. OLB (Curry or Taylor)
3. LG or RT (assuming they'll sign free agent for 1 and draft the other)
4. HB or WR (depending on what happens with Mason, Burress, and Tomlinson)
5. DB (Strickland and Pool's contracts are up, so I imagine a DB will be drafted at some point)
6. LG or RT (whichever one wasn't drafted 3rd round)
7. WR

PS- Forgot to address the "but they drafted Kenrick Ellis round 3 last year!" it was hardly a 3rd round pick, it was pick 94 so basically he was a 4th round pick, and also he lost his spot in the depth chart to an undrafted free agent (Dixon) and hasn't played a down yet. Dixon is more of a pass rushing DT and undersized for the Jets I see him becoming a backup DE at some point.

Hurricanes25
10-08-2011, 11:51 AM
Eric Smith is awful. That's why we need a saftey. I agree that there probably isn't a saftey worth taking in the first round as of right now, but it's a position we could look at in the second.

As for NT, we took Kenrick Ellis in the 3rd round. I think we have to see him play before we spend another hig pick on the d-line. And it's no secret that Eliis was a developmental guy. If it wasn't for his character concerns, he would have went higher.

We passed on OLB the last few years because there wasn't anybody worth taking in the late 1st the last couple years. If the Jets are in position to draft somebody they like, they'll draft him. Thomas is in his last year of his contract and Pace has not proven to be a "#1" type passrusher. Pace is a good player but we would be better off if we had somebody better than him playing on the other side of the D.

We need some help on the O-line. Slauson and Hunter are better suited as backups. Ducasse just sucks and I never expect him to do anything in this league. Brandon Moore is aging.

derza222
10-08-2011, 01:13 PM
The thing about drafts is they have to be way more flexible than you're making it out to be. No team goes into a draft saying we're going to address position A in round one, B in round 2, C in round 3, etc.

And I do agree NT is potentially a need, I have no problem with taking a defensive lineman. However, everybody knew Ellis would be a project as 'Canes said, and they were a big fan of his I think they had him as one of the top 40 players in the draft. It's very early at this point in his career to say a NT needs to be drafted to start next year, especially because it's such a difficult position to play as a young player so who knows how another rookie will step in and play. If by the end of the season he has been completely unable to get onto the field or plays and is awful, then that certainly changes things. Right now, I think it could go either way. I'd also like to throw out there that (at least I think) a lot of the run defense issues have been containing runs to the outside, which points to OLB and DE play a little more than NT.

I'd be fine with signing offensive linemen too, but drafting a couple of big bodies worked well a few years ago and I think would go well again. One way or another it needs to be addressed. Obviously free agents would be nice at every single position and the team could just go into the draft and pick BPA, but who knows what happens in free agency so I'm just talking about general team needs. If two legitimate linemen are brought in and there's no need to draft that position, great. If not, I think it's something that needs to be addressed, and preferably early.

I also said safety needed to be addressed and Eric Smith needed to go, never that one should be drafted in the first round. In fact, I alluded to the fact that one should be drafted in the third round or later (and again, that's assuming one isn't signed as a FA). If you don't think safety's a need at all I don't really know what to say, I definitely disagree. Smith kills the team in pass coverage, and one way or another it would be good for him to get replaced.

Robcards
10-08-2011, 03:45 PM
I agree about drafting an OLB, but with Curry and Taylor currently ranked in the 50s-60s, and you can get one of those 2 in the 2nd, I really don't see them drafting OLB round 1, especially since the Jets typically take 4-3 DE's and convert them to OLB so the only round 1 guy that would fit would be Jenkins, who IMO wouldn't be much better than Taylor or Curry. If we got Worthy round 1 and Taylor round 2 I would be ecstatic and so should you guys lol

Anyway, back to the safety thing, seems like a position Rex would want a veteran at over drafting a mediocre one in the 2012 draft. Personally, I don't think Eric Smith is "awful" as you put it. NT and OLB definitely need more immediate attention than FS. If we let Leonhard go however, which as I already stated would shock me greatly, that's a whole different story although if they did let him go it would most likely mean they really like Cook, rookie from S CAR.

Also don't think you can really blame the run d on the DEs, maybe the OLBs but then why suggest getting a pass rushing OLB? Wilkerson and Devito have been solid IMO, it's Pouha and our depth at LB that needs help.

Hurricanes25
11-21-2011, 04:05 PM
First forum mock of the season (Derza and I)
Round 1 (19)- Alshon Jeffery, WR, South Carolina
Round 2 (47)- Melvin Ingram, OLB, South Carolina
Round 3 (81)- Lucas Nix, OG, Pittsburgh
Round 4 (112)- Leonard Johnson, CB, Iowa State

I love the way our draft turned out. Alshon was a great value at 19 and he has all of the potential to be a true #1 WR in the league. Ingram was a great value in the second who would start opposite of Pace. Lucas Nix was a nice find in the 3rd who could be a day 1 starter replacing Slauson. And in the 4th, we went with Leonard Johnson. He was sensational while covering Justin Blackmon and we all know how much Rex loves his defensive backs.

jetsfan46
12-28-2011, 11:02 PM
I see that the needs for the Jets include (prioritized from highest to lowest):

1. Right Tackle: Wayne Hunter has allowed more sacks in 15 games than Damien Woody allowed in two seasons. With a quarterback who will get sacked due to stupid decisions it does not help when you have someone who is not capable of stopping the opponents pass rush. Free Agency is an easy option to consider, options include Max Starks, Flozell Adams, Levi Brown, and former Jet Kareem McKenzie.

2. Safety: Brodney Pool is a very good backup (Bradshaw of the Giants made him look ridiculous) but Jim Leonhard (the best starting safety the Jets have) is always getting injured and Eric Smith is really the worst safety starter in the NFL (suited for the practice squad). Mark Barron could be an option in the draft or the Jets could try to get Reggie Nelson from the Bengals. Despite these two options the Jets may want to consider trying to pry Adrian Wilson from Arizona. The Jets need someone who can stop the TE position and no one on the Jets at the safety position has been capable of stopping the tightends (i.e. Gronkowski, Hernandez, Celek, etc.). They might need two if they can't come to terms with Leonhard.

3. Quarterback: Say what you like about Sanchez but the numbers show he makes more mistakes than any successful quarterback in the league ever made in his first three years. All his wins in the playoffs were based on game managing and not carrying the team (which he proved he couldn't do throughout this season). Rated 28th in Total Quarterback Rating according to ESPN, he is without a doubt a disappointment thus far. He is also statistically the worst quarterback in the NFL when throwing for 15+ yards on a throw (actually he is performing worse in that category compared to last year) and has turned the ball over more frequently this year than last (fumbles and interceptions combined). The Jets should consider trading him if they can get Manning or the option to trade up to the top pick. Most likely neither option will be available so the Jets should at least sign a decent backup such as David Garrard (who is recovering from an injury this year) or Vince Young (a Probowler who just needs stability to figure out the plays and where to throw). I personally would love the Jets to trade Mark Sanchez but obviously they won't unless they can get a far superior replacement. People are naive enough to think an undersized and unintelligent quarterback can perform well as long as he can throw the ball far enough.

4. Right Outside Linebacker: This is a weakness in that Brian Thomas is not fast enough for the position and no one on the Jets is except one dimensional pass rusher Aaron Maybin. Consequently, the Jets need to get somebody that can cover and blitz. An option to consider could be drafting Zach Brown out of UNC in the 2nd or 3rd round. He is a big, strong, and fast linebacker and the only knock is people question his motor (don't worry he's not scared like Vernon Gholston). Other options include going after Manny Lawson in free agency (who is big fast strong and smart). Manny might be a perfect solution since he played defensive end at NC State and is familiar with the 3-4 due to this time with the 49ers. Drafting anybody in the first round at this position is a reach. No one really looks to be worth it and a couple of guys will be drafted way above their level of play. An outside option is the Jets can try to put a larger price on Mario Williams of the Texans (the Texans have less cap space than the Jets at the moment and will still have trouble finding some when Williams becomes a free agent but they most likely will be able to franchise Williams).

5. Halfback: Lets face it LT is getting really old for the position and Shonn Greene can't catch, so why expect Greene to fill that role of multidimensional back. Instead the Jets should look at drafting somebody at that position. The Sporting News has Trent Richardson dropping to #19 where the Jets would take him and I believe it is possible this could occur. If you look at what happened to Mark Ingram (who is maybe slightly worse than Richardson) one can see that it is possible for halfbacks to drop significantly in the draft especially since the passing attack has become more important. Another option is Doug Martin out of Boise State who would make a good 3rd round pick and a steal of a 4th rounder (I wouldn't call it a reach if someone drafted him in the 2nd round). Martin has everything you look for in a back and has the potential to be better than even Probowler Ray Rice. Either Richardson or Martin would definitely help the Jets rushing attack in a three back rotation (New Guy, Greene, and McKnight).

6. Inside Linebacker: Bart Scott lacks the agility to contribute at this point for the Jets. Drafting Vontaze Burfict of Arizona State in the 1st round, Dont'a Hightower of Alabama in the 1st or 2nd round, or Audie Cole of NC State in the 4th or 5th round would be reasonable. All of these guys have the size, agility, and tenacity to compete at the next level.

7. Wide Receiver: Mike Tannenbaum (a guy who should be on the hot seat next year) really loves drafting little guys at this position. That strategy has not worked out amazingly for him. Though Kerley seems reliable he lacks the explosion one needs at the position and Plaxico Burress (who despite his size has almost no explosiveness) will most likely not return. Resigning Braylon Edwards is an option (he'll probably come cheap now that the 49ers have cut him) but the Jets should also see who else will be in the draft and free agency. Mohamed Sanu out of Rutgers and Nick Toon of Wisconsin are great options in the 2nd or 3rd round. These type of mid height top end speed guys can be very successful (i.e: Victor Cruz and Reggie Wayne).

8. Left Guard: Slauson is an okay fill in starter but the Jets should consider cutting Vlad Ducasse if he doesn't show anything in training camp and bringing in someone to compete with Slauson. Options include drafting Kelechi Osemele out of Iowa State in the 4th round or signing Carl Nicks of the Saints (probably a more expensive but safer option in that he will instantly be an upgrade over Slauson). Other free agents available should include Ben Grubbs of the Ravens and Deuce Lutui of the Cardinals.

Robcards
01-25-2012, 10:46 AM
Here's a Jets draft I would be happy with:

1 (16): Courtney Upshaw - OLB - Alabama
The fit here is obvious, pass-rushing 3-4 OLB that could start week 1 and have a seamless transition to the NFL. He's the guy I really want round 1 if he's still on the board when the Jets pick. (Replaces: Bryan Thomas)

2 (48): Kelechi Osemele - LG - Iowa State
Ground and pound, baby. This pick and the next would be ideal if these big guys are available for them and will attempt to restore the Jets offensive line to what it once was. (Replaces: Matt Slauson)


3 (79): Bobby Massie - RT - Ole Miss
This guy surprised a lot of people when he declared but he didn't surprise me, he's a large run-blocking tackle and he would be a huge steal in the 3rd round for the Jets and fill the void left by Kareem McKenzie years ago. Fingers crossed on this one. (Replaces: Wayne Hunter)

4 (111): Alameda Ta'amu - NT - Washington
I'm not sure why his stock has dropped since the start of the year but he's a mountain of a man and exactly the help the Jets need on the front to stop the run with Pouha being old and in his contract year. Was a late 1st-2nd rounder at the start of the season, projected 4th round now, anyone know why? He looks good at Senior Bowl practice! (Replaces: Sione Pouha)

5 (143): Jeff Fuller - WR - Texas A&M OR Marvin McNutt - WR - Iowa
The WR class this year looks weak at the top (i.e. no Julio Jones and A.J. Green really, Blackmon and Floyd are not as good) but the depth at the position is what I like. Jarius Wright is projected for round 3-4 and would be a huge steal I think if he's on the board round 4, but I'm going to assume he isn't and the value with the round 5 pick here is tremendous. Either McNutt or Fuller would fill the role well. (Replaces: Plaxico Burress)

6 (175): Chris Rainey - HB - Florida
The FA market should have some good power backs if the Jets decide to go a different direction than Shonn Greene, but let's assume they give him another year with an improved offensive line, they still need to fill the impending hole left by LT who I assume will retire or go elsewhere. Chris Rainey is the fastest RB in the class and considering his stock is this low because he is not an every-down back, he's a great pick at round 6. (Replaces: Ladanian Tomlinson)

7 (207): Damien Jackson - S - Ole Miss
I'd be surprised if one of the Jets picks isn't used on a defensive back, however I don't think it will be an early one. Damien Jackson is a big physical free safety and can fight for the starting job with Eric Smith. (Replaces: Brodney Pool)

Robcards
01-25-2012, 10:48 AM
6. Inside Linebacker: Bart Scott lacks the agility to contribute at this point for the Jets. Drafting Vontaze Burfict of Arizona State in the 1st round, Dont'a Hightower of Alabama in the 1st or 2nd round, or Audie Cole of NC State in the 4th or 5th round would be reasonable. All of these guys have the size, agility, and tenacity to compete at the next level.


Bart Scott still has another year (I hope), I like waiting until 2013 when the Jets can nab Manti Te'o =)

Nebkreb
01-25-2012, 07:58 PM
Here's a Jets draft I would be happy with:

1 (16): Courtney Upshaw - OLB - Alabama
The fit here is obvious, pass-rushing 3-4 OLB that could start week 1 and have a seamless transition to the NFL. He's the guy I really want round 1 if he's still on the board when the Jets pick. (Replaces: Bryan Thomas)

2 (48): Kelechi Osemele - LG - Iowa State
Ground and pound, baby. This pick and the next would be ideal if these big guys are available for them and will attempt to restore the Jets offensive line to what it once was. (Replaces: Matt Slauson)


3 (79): Bobby Massie - RT - Ole Miss
This guy surprised a lot of people when he declared but he didn't surprise me, he's a large run-blocking tackle and he would be a huge steal in the 3rd round for the Jets and fill the void left by Kareem McKenzie years ago. Fingers crossed on this one. (Replaces: Wayne Hunter)

4 (111): Alameda Ta'amu - NT - Washington
I'm not sure why his stock has dropped since the start of the year but he's a mountain of a man and exactly the help the Jets need on the front to stop the run with Pouha being old and in his contract year. Was a late 1st-2nd rounder at the start of the season, projected 4th round now, anyone know why? He looks good at Senior Bowl practice! (Replaces: Sione Pouha)

5 (143): Jeff Fuller - WR - Texas A&M OR Marvin McNutt - WR - Iowa
The WR class this year looks weak at the top (i.e. no Julio Jones and A.J. Green really, Blackmon and Floyd are not as good) but the depth at the position is what I like. Jarius Wright is projected for round 3-4 and would be a huge steal I think if he's on the board round 4, but I'm going to assume he isn't and the value with the round 5 pick here is tremendous. Either McNutt or Fuller would fill the role well. (Replaces: Plaxico Burress)

6 (175): Chris Rainey - HB - Florida
The FA market should have some good power backs if the Jets decide to go a different direction than Shonn Greene, but let's assume they give him another year with an improved offensive line, they still need to fill the impending hole left by LT who I assume will retire or go elsewhere. Chris Rainey is the fastest RB in the class and considering his stock is this low because he is not an every-down back, he's a great pick at round 6. (Replaces: Ladanian Tomlinson)

7 (207): Damien Jackson - S - Ole Miss
I'd be surprised if one of the Jets picks isn't used on a defensive back, however I don't think it will be an early one. Damien Jackson is a big physical free safety and can fight for the starting job with Eric Smith. (Replaces: Brodney Pool)

Interesting ideas, but I doubt the Jets are going to start that many rookies, definitely not 2 on the offensive line. Slauson isn't awful, but Hunter is. So a replacement RT is more of a need than LG.

Hurricanes25
04-01-2012, 04:21 PM
I think I want either Michael Floyd or Melvin Ingram in the first round. I might be disappointed with anybody else.

derza222
04-02-2012, 11:05 AM
Agreed, at least as far as at 16 goes. I could dig Trent Richardson as well if he falls, but that seems extremely unlikely. And there are other guys I'd be happy with in a trade down, but don't really like their value at 16.

Robcards
04-02-2012, 02:22 PM
I think I want either Michael Floyd or Melvin Ingram in the first round. I might be disappointed with anybody else.

I get this feeling that Ingram will be a huge bust, id rather have upshaw or mercilus, ideally trading back and getting branch and more picks. Floyd would be good value at 16 i like him more than Blackmon.

YotoJets007
04-02-2012, 02:40 PM
WR in the first round is more plausible. Not OL or OLB. I am not sold on pass rushing OLB for first round for right price. 16th is too high for taking OL this time.


I think Jets will after either of those following WRs.

Rueben Randle
Kendall Wright
Michael Floyd
Ashton Jeffery
Justin Blackmon


I like Marvin Jones or AJ Jenkins for after 1st round but due to a lack of right value in pass rushing OLB, I can see Jets try for Andre Branch, Shea McLellan or Jacquies Smith for 2nd-5th round pick.

derza222
04-02-2012, 02:51 PM
I get this feeling that Ingram will be a huge bust, id rather have upshaw or mercilus, ideally trading back and getting branch and more picks. Floyd would be good value at 16 i like him more than Blackmon.

I don't like Upshaw or Mercilus honestly, though Branch in a trade back would be nice. Upshaw is just a poor athlete and I'm not sure he's got what it takes to be a legitimate NFL pass rusher, and Mercilus seems stiff to me and I just didn't really like what I saw when I watched him.

WR in the first round is more plausible. Not OL or OLB. I am not sold on pass rushing OLB for first round for right price. 16th is too high for taking OL this time.


I think Jets will after either of those following WRs.

Rueben Randle
Kendall Wright
Michael Floyd
Ashton Jeffery
Justin Blackmon


I like Marvin Jones or AJ Jenkins for after 1st round but due to a lack of right value in pass rushing OLB, I can see Jets try for Andre Branch, Shea McLellan or Jacquies Smith for 2nd-5th round pick.

Big fan of Marvin Jones, would be a tremendous pick in the third if he's there. Like the pass rushers you mentioned as well. I really don't like the value of OLB's in the first round either, but it seems like it's something they're considering.

As for the WR's you listed, I think they'd consider Blackmon if he's there (though that seems unlikely) and Floyd. Not sure if Wright (small, mediocre timed speed, potentially a product of the spread/Griffin) or Jeffery (work ethic concerns, mediocre tape this year) will get consideration though. Randle's a wild card, and I think Stephen Hill is as well.

YotoJets007
04-02-2012, 05:58 PM
I dont consider Wright a small WR. Compact is a right word. He has speed and quickness for sure. Simple and quick offense is a key for Sanchez to succeed a game.

I think Wright is more than just systematic spread product as Griffin often played longer and Wright ran several alternative routes. Wright is more dangerous when the play is short and clean. That is why I think Sanchez and Wright would be good partners.

Problem on Wright is Jets already have Holmes and Kerley on the roster. I am not sure about Kerley and Wright will line up at same time as far as wildcat option is concerned. Switching Sanchez with Tebow while Wright with Turner will kill some play clock and strategic exchange. I think I like a WR that can play both pro style and wildcat as I prefer fewer player changes during the game.


Jeffery is a wildcat for me because he has size and talent but he gives up too soon if a quarterback could not help the offense. Jets can't have that but Jets keep thinking Sanchez is the ONE. *cough cough hack spit* excuse me. I can see Jets are in that direction, somehow.



PO, what do you think Jets switching to 4-3? I like Nick Perry but he is better suitable for 4-3 DE. He has good size and speed to be a complete DE. Pass rushing against quarterback is a primary for Rex Ryan and I feel that Perry offers best as first round prospect. Actually, hybrid 4-3 since Jets do not have any a natural LE since Ellis departed. Jets would need an athletic with speed for OLB like Wagner or Bradham or Davis for 2nd round or 3rd round selection.

Switching to 4-3 draft:

1. Nick Perry, DE.
2. Robert Wagner, ILB/OLB.
3. Marvin Jones, WR.

Instead of incumbent defense:

1. Rueben Randle, WR.
2. Andre Branch, OLB.
3. whoever.

derza222
04-02-2012, 07:20 PM
Short is what I meant for Wright. You bring up the question of fit with Kerley and Holmes, which is my concern. Sanchez isn't a terribly accurate quarterback, neither is Tebow when it comes down to it, and the Jets don't have a big, rangy target on the roster. While speed would be great and I think is a major priority, I think a tall, fast WR is a better fit than a short, fast WR. And I wasn't necessarily bringing up things that I think Wright/Jeffery are, but question marks about them that I think make them less than ideal fits. Wright won't offer much as a blocker either.

That's a good point about Jeffery also (not adjusting well to bad QB play). I think the fact that he didn't stay in shape combined with his occasional struggles separating and him not really being a great deep threat (which the Jets need across from Holmes IMO, somebody who can threaten teams deep along with run blocking and being a red zone threat) is an issue too.

What exactly do you mean by all of that 4-3 stuff?

YotoJets007
04-02-2012, 08:49 PM
Everything would be easier if Holmes is 6 3 in height. lol. Tall and fast WR is still rare. That is why I willingly bite on taking Stephen Hill with this 16th selection. Holmes is good for 2 or 3 years as our number one. Hill and company can share roles in slot and wideout. By the time Jets dump Holmes, Hill should be ready to be our big number one.


About 4-3, Ryan wants a blue chip pass rusher but none of potential OLB stand out. Ingram is a safe pick but he wont dominate a game. What Jets need is a dominating pass rusher that actually sack a freaking quarterback regularly. So far, I can see one first round prospect that fits that mold and it is Nick Perry.

My question for Jets is will Jets pass on Perry for raw or questionable OLB somewhere in the draft? or Jets just need a qb sack machine on the team disregard of what defense formation?

Nick Perry made it clear that he prefers 4-3 DE. Ryan Kerrigan said the same thing. Who knows. If Jets actually draft Perry then Scott and Harris wont be able to cover bigger area with Perry plays tighter at LOS.

Ryan did try Gholston as DE so I can see Ryan wont have a problem with hybrid 4-3 as long as harassing quarterback works. Unfortunately, in Ryan's career as DC and HC, he never has at least ONE player with 10 sacks a season.


If Ryan sticks with 3-4 OLB then Jets wont have a sack monster on the roster. Prematurely talk, of course. I am not sure if it is a major problem for popularity belief. I am fine with average rush defense team as long as they don't give up too many points.

Robcards
04-04-2012, 12:15 AM
Need a complete overhaul to switch to a 4-3 I think David Harris and Muhammed Wilkerson are the only starters that would be good in a 4-3. Pouha and Devito are 2gap run stuffers with little pass rush ability, Pace wouldnt make a good 4-3 de, and i doubt bart scott would adjust to the 4-3 well either. Believe me I would love the Jets to switch to 4-3 but we just dont have the personnel for it.

gpngc
04-04-2012, 01:16 AM
Barron, Ingram, trade down?

Robcards
04-04-2012, 07:00 AM
Barron, Ingram, trade down?

Really dont see the value in Barron at 16. Not an Ingram fan either. Trading back and getting Andre Branch is best case scenario imo. Not sure who would trade up though

Robcards
04-04-2012, 07:05 AM
Ryan did try Gholston as DE so I can see Ryan wont have a problem with hybrid 4-3 as long as harassing quarterback works. Unfortunately, in Ryan's career as DC and HC, he never has at least ONE player with 10 sacks a season.




That cant be accurate, Suggs never got more than 10 sacks with Ryan as DC?

Ok all of Suggs 10+ sack years were when Ryan wasnt DC, but Adalius Thomas got 11 in 2006 with Ryan as DC.

YotoJets007
04-04-2012, 12:14 PM
That cant be accurate, Suggs never got more than 10 sacks with Ryan as DC?

Ok all of Suggs 10+ sack years were when Ryan wasnt DC, but Adalius Thomas got 11 in 2006 with Ryan as DC.


What a lazy work by me. Pryce and Thomas had at least 10 sacks in 2006. I dont know how I missed it. Maybe focusing on Suggs too much. my bad.

gpngc
04-04-2012, 12:16 PM
Value is a funny word. All of the pass rushers available at 16 are going to have warts. The best player there may actually be Fletcher Cox.

I think Barron is a real possibility. Most believe he's going to be taken in the top 20.

YotoJets007
04-04-2012, 12:25 PM
Need a complete overhaul to switch to a 4-3 I think David Harris and Muhammed Wilkerson are the only starters that would be good in a 4-3. Pouha and Devito are 2gap run stuffers with little pass rush ability, Pace wouldnt make a good 4-3 de, and i doubt bart scott would adjust to the 4-3 well either. Believe me I would love the Jets to switch to 4-3 but we just dont have the personnel for it.


That is why I am thinking about a hybrid defense instead of base defense. Dixon and Pito would play LE temporarily. Pace will share roles with Dixon at strongside end and Perry at weakside end. Jets would draft one or two athletic OLB. Only Scott that would be left out during the transformation. Not difficult to get it done but 3 rookies for front 7 is kind of risky if Jets continue talking about Super Bowl craps.

YotoJets007
04-04-2012, 12:29 PM
Value is a funny word. All of the pass rushers available at 16 are going to have warts. The best player there may actually be Fletcher Cox.

I think Barron is a real possibility. Most believe he's going to be taken in the top 20.


I am all for Fletcher Cox. I may be okay with Barron because I am not sold on either Landry's healthy for one full season nor Landry being 4 years as a Jet. Barron may start at FS as a rookie instead of Leonhard and Smith until Jets miraculously find a legit FS.

derza222
04-04-2012, 02:37 PM
Value is a funny word. All of the pass rushers available at 16 are going to have warts. The best player there may actually be Fletcher Cox.

I think Barron is a real possibility. Most believe he's going to be taken in the top 20.

I don't think Fletcher Cox is going to be there, but he's a guy I'd definitely be happy with. Cox is nice because he has a motor too.

A lot of the picks I'd be okay with after the obvious ones are more tools guys, not sure why. Maybe because the team really lacks speed.

Poe is a project, but one I think I'd be okay with gambling on particularly given the team has some good vets on the DL, good DL coaches, and he wouldn't need to play right away.

Stephen Hill is a perfect fit for what they need across from Holmes as a #2 in the run first, chunk play scheme IMO (tall, deep threat, good run blocker). Might not produce a ton right away, but if he can essentially be Torrey Smith (and I think he can) that might be enough as a #2. Somebody to compete with Schilens too.

Michael Floyd has pretty good measurables, I like him a lot on the field but question some of his numbers (YPA's across the board were bad) and he's got those off the field issues...think interviews will be telling for him and obviously I have no idea what those were like.

Rueben Randle's another interesting guy who was super productive in the SEC with a poor QB situation (which is potentially what he'd be coming too if the Jets drafted him). Didn't run well at the combine but looks pretty fast on tape to me and improved at his pro day. Think he might be underrated a tad and a good target in a trade down or the second, but not sure he's there in the first.

Alshon Jeffery is the kind of kid who scares me either way, usually see those more in the NBA draft but I'd be afraid to take him and afraid to pass on him. High ceiling, low floor. The weight stuff obviously isn't great and he ran alright but not great, 2010 Alshon was ridiculous though. His tape this year reminds me a bit of what Plax was able to do last year, which isn't the best thing as I thought the offense clicked more with Edwards than him.

Dre Kirkpatrick as a FS is another gamble but an interesting one, he has the requisite height and likes to hit. Seems like a worthwhile conversion project for a team that could use another safety, particularly one with coverage skills. There's no perfect option to cover the elite TE's in the league right now, but a guy with Kirkpatrick's size and coverage skills is a good option.

Not a measurables guy but Barron obviously fills a huge need and I think he's just a solid, step in and start kind of guy. Not a sexy pick, but I think it'd be a good one. Position's more valued than it used to be, although typically in the past if you went for a safety in round 1 you'd want a potential elite playmaker and I'm not sure that's Barron.

Not sure what goes down with Bart Scott, but if Luke Kuechly is on the board I would be okay with that pick. Great measurables and coverage ability, would be a good option to cover TE's and backs again which was a weakness.

Offensive tackle is kind of all over the place, everybody has clear strengths and weaknesses. I'm sure if they took one I'd be happy with it, but nobody particularly stands out. Cordy Glenn might be my favorite for the Jets, but I'm not sure how well he fits the scheme Sparano's going to run. Could be Vernon Carey-ish at RT though, so I think it could work.

Not huge on any of the OLB options, but there are some I'd be cool with. Ingram's an interesting option despite his being short and having short arms. Think his versatility is appealing. Very explosive, not sure if he's a dominant pass rusher though.

Upshaw I would be disappointed by, good football player but I don't think he's near athletic enough to be successful in the NFL.

Perry is a tremendous athlete but stiff and needs some refining IMO, it's a risky pick particularly because he's stiff but some guys who were labeled as being somewhat stiff (the Washington guys Kerrigan and Orakpo stand out) to standing up have had success. I think I'd be okay with him, might have dominant pass rusher upside moreso than some of the other guys.

I like Andre Branch a lot, the Clemson DE thing worries me a bit but he's got a good motor, pretty fluid, good against the run, can get after the QB, good athlete...his value doesn't seem to be in the 16 range but I'd be very happy with him in a trade down.

Nobody else seems to be a legit first round option off the top of my head, but I do like Vinny Curry and Shea McClellin, and Cam Johnson would be a guy I'd be cool with on day 2.

YotoJets007
04-04-2012, 06:57 PM
Bart Scott is overweight? He looked lean to me.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/27/rex-ryan-says-bart-scott-will-be-back-in-2012/


Did I read NFL network right? Shea McLellin is just behind Ingram for top DE or OLB? If so then Shea at 16th is not out of question. :wtf: :wtf:

Robcards
04-04-2012, 08:59 PM
Bart Scott is overweight? He looked lean to me.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/27/rex-ryan-says-bart-scott-will-be-back-in-2012/


Did I read NFL network right? Shea McLellin is just behind Ingram for top DE or OLB? If so then Shea at 16th is not out of question. :wtf: :wtf:

Mike mayock is a lunatic. Branch, Upshaw, and Mercilus are better.

YotoJets007
04-07-2012, 05:09 PM
LSU defensive tackle Michael Brockers (4/?).

+West Virginia linebacker Bruce Irvin (3/22, 4/?).

*Memphis guard Ronald Leary (3/?).

South Carolina receiver Alshon Jeffery (4/4).

Montana defensive back Trumaine Johnson (4/?).

Oklahoma linebacker Ronnell Lewis (?/?).

*Maine safety Jerron McMillian (?/?).

Harvard defensive end Josue Ortiz (?/?).

*Oregon State linebacker Cameron Collins (4/13).

*San Diego State punter Brian Stahovich (3/?).

LSU safety Brandon Taylor (4/?).

Utah State running back Robert Turbin (4/9).



What a terrible pre-draft visit list. Does it mean that anyone who visit Jets in final 2 weeks of April could be ours? :waiting:

Robcards
04-07-2012, 05:41 PM
What a terrible pre-draft visit list. Does it mean that anyone who visit Jets in final 2 weeks of April could be ours? :waiting:

List looks about right to me. Would like to see stephen hill and maybe branch/mercilus visit too

derza222
04-08-2012, 08:33 AM
What a terrible pre-draft visit list. Does it mean that anyone who visit Jets in final 2 weeks of April could be ours? :waiting:

TheJetsBlog put out a more extensive list. I'll sum it up below.

Defensive backs:

Janoris Jenkins, North Alabama
D'Anton Lynn, Penn State
Trumaine Johnson, Montana
Jeremiah Brown, Wagner
Brandon Taylor, LSU
Jerron McMillian, Maine
Omar Bolden, Arizona State

Front 7:

Michael Brockers, LSU
Jack Crawford, Penn State
Mike Martin, Michigan
Kendall Reyes, UConn
Justin Francis, Rutgers
Josue Ortiz, Harvard
Ronnie Cameron, Old Dominion
Quinton Coples, UNC
Jake Bequette, Arkansas
Andre Branch, Clemson
Ronnell Lewis, Oklahoma
Bruce Irvin, West Virginia
Melvin Ingram, South Carolina
Courtney Upshaw, Alabama
Delano Johnson, Bowie State
Whitney Mercilus, Illinois
Julian Stanford, Wagner
Cameron Collins, Oregon State
Lavonte David, Nebraska

Offensive line:

Cordy Glenn, Georgia
Andrew Tiller, Syracuse
Ronald Leary, Memphis
Jeff Adams, Columbia
Ben Jones, Georgia
James Brown, Troy

Skill positions:

Dan Di Lella, Albany
Robert Turbin, Utah State
Terrance Ganaway, Baylor
Doug Martin, Boise State
Isaiah Pead, Cincinnati
Cody Johnson, Texas
Evan Rodriguez, Temple
DeVier Posey, Ohio State
Joe Adams, Arkansas
Marvin McNutt, Iowa
TJ Graham, NC State
Gerell Robinson, Arizona State
Alshon Jeffery, South Carolina
Orson Charles, Georgia
Michael Egnew, Missouri

YotoJets007
04-10-2012, 09:38 AM
So far I know, Francis and Irvin already visited Jets but who will be next 28?


http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/jets/post/_/id/11518/jets-could-be-choked-by-future-salary-caps

That gives me some new ideas about Jets draft. Make sense or senseless?

Revis' next contract will be a problem but releasing Scott and Pace will create some room for Revis' first 2 or 3 years in contract depending on when the contract is signed. Rookie starter for OLB, OLB and ILB in 2013. Naturally, we will bark at that so 2012 draft prospects will be a key to rebuild the 2013-15 core. That would negate our current issue with PR, FS, WR and RT.


While I have struggled to understand why Jets bother to attempt to extend Keller's contract, I fully expect Jets to trade down from 16th to get extra picks to cover both 2012 needs and recycling needs for 13-15.


However, if Jets stand pat then Jets may split needs. I can see Jets skip FS with bringing Leonhard back and grooming Tracy Wilson or giving Cromartie a try. RT too with Ducasse, Hunter and Howard. Possibly WR as Turner will see some extra action or Campbell is ready to ride out.


After this opinion, I could see Jets look at ILB, OLB and SS instead of WR, RT, FS, Rushing OLB and RB as primary needs with 16th standing pat. Trading down from 16th would net us a good extra 2 picks, which would extend the needs by adding WR and rushing OLB.

Or focus majorly on 2012 team.

YotoJets007
04-11-2012, 11:55 AM
How do you find Tony Pauline's draft work? I am not familiar with his work and will check him out for future consideration.

I agree with his opinion on top 5 Safety but I am not sure about Hardin because he has plenty history of shoulder and arm injuries. I am not a fan of S with shoulder issue because it may cause FS any hesitation on tackling or hitting. I could like to gamble on him after 5th round so it can't be him being top 5 safety.


His comment about Jets' late round targets for S help. I believe it is purely basing on visits with Jets.

The Jets are expected to target some late-round safety prospects like Jerron McMillian, Trevor Coston and Chad Faulcon. (Tony Pauline)

No offense to small school S... Who is current solid NFL FS that came from small school? And since when did Jets focus on small school prospects? Unless I overlooked someone else, Ducasse should be the last draftee coming from a small school.

If Jets indeed do that then they should give Portland State's Deshawn Shead.

YotoJets007
04-13-2012, 09:58 AM
Not that that matters to you but WR Michael Floyd and SS Harrison Smith are other prospects that visited Jets.

Old School
04-16-2012, 08:34 PM
Maybe it's just me, but I keep wondering why there never seems to be any talk of the Jets taking DeCastro at 16. All reports say the guy could be a staple for the next decade, a safe pick. Putting DeCastro on the right side would make one sick OL.

Also, what do you guys think if Coples fell to 16 like some mocks have rumored?

As for Poe, I am a scarred fan with work-out warriors; Vernon Gholston. I'd have to say pass if he's there, and think we have way too many other needs.

Hurricanes25
04-16-2012, 08:42 PM
Maybe it's just me, but I keep wondering why there never seems to be any talk of the Jets taking DeCastro at 16. All reports say the guy could be a staple for the next decade, a safe pick. Putting DeCastro on the right side would make one sick OL.

Also, what do you guys think if Coples fell to 16 like some mocks have rumored?



I think DeCastro's best fit is at Guard and I think they would much rather upgrade the RT spot. He certainly is a safe pick. I predict he becomes an All Pro at G.

As for Coples, I don't see where he fits in the 3-4. He would be nice in some of Rex's other packages though.

derza222
04-16-2012, 09:25 PM
Agreed on DeCastro. Guard just isn't a big need at all, he's a great player but if he's on the board maybe they can entice somebody to trade up. Don't really think he'll be around anyway, but we'll see.

Coples is interesting, I think the team is thinking the same thing. They just brought him in for a visit, so I think they're trying to figure out where he fits and if they like him enough to take him if he does slip to 16, which looks more likely right now. I know Rex put him through linebacker drills at his Pro Day, but I'm not sure he's much of a linebacker. Maybe they could use him in a role like the Texans used Mario Williams in last year, but it would be better to get somebody who's a more prototypical fit.

Robcards
04-17-2012, 11:53 AM
Coples played everywhere on the line at North Carolina, could use him as a 5-tech, but with Wilkerson and Devito the need isnt there. Coples would easily be BPA at 16 though, also DeCastro is big enough to play RT hed be a hell of a lot better than Hunter or Ducasse

derza222
04-17-2012, 12:23 PM
I think part of the reason they brought Coples in is because they wanted to see where they could move him around. If he's got the ability to play some OLB then he's quite a chess piece and I think something that they wouldn't want to pass on. That said if he's just a 5-tech I'm not sure they make that move, and ultimately it really depends what they see on tape with the motor issues and how they interviewed with him. Don't think Ryan would sign off on a guy he doesn't feel would play hard.

I think DeCastro is big enough to play RT, but he's highly rated as a G not a RT. If he was just a RT then I don't think his grade would be as high. Doesn't make sense to convert him. They could draft a guy in the 3rd, maybe even the 5th round who could be a hell of a lot better than Hunter and Ducasse. Don't think they want to convert a G to tackle in the first round just because he's an upgrade over either of the two worst RT's in football.

YotoJets007
04-17-2012, 01:38 PM
If DeCastro is actually available for 16th then go for it. why?

Slauson is a finesse G and Moore is entering into the final year on contract.

DeCastro wont play RT for sure. His athleticism is awful enough to play T spot. Slauson is better so he could swing to RT if DeCastro is ours.


In reality, Jets are very loyal to OL with solid work ethic so it wont happen.

Coples is more of a specific schematic player, not a natural position player in 3-4 defense. Pass.

Old School
04-17-2012, 08:26 PM
I think DeCastro is big enough to play RT, but he's highly rated as a G not a RT. If he was just a RT then I don't think his grade would be as high. Doesn't make sense to convert him. They could draft a guy in the 3rd, maybe even the 5th round who could be a hell of a lot better than Hunter and Ducasse. Don't think they want to convert a G to tackle in the first round just because he's an upgrade over either of the two worst RT's in football.



Good call, makes sense. Guys like Massie or Osemele would would be great value if they fell to the 3rd round, but a more realistic 3rd round OT could be Schwartz. I'll throw the remote through my flatscreen if I have to watch Hunter start another season.

As for the 1st pick, I was throwing out DeCastro and Coples to see what you guys thought. Neither sound like a fit. I'm personally keeping my fingers crossed for Floyd. Although his stop is skyrocketing at the moment. Read today that some scouts are calling him a more complete WR than Blackmon. He'll probably be out of the Jets reach. Ingram would be nice, only if we don't move up to get him. Still a fan of Barron, the safety situation is scary for the Jets. Who's going to cover Gronk? Don't trust that Landry will be healthy. I live near Washington, and there aren't many fans heartbroken that Landry left.

All in all, getting pumped for the draft !!!

Old School
04-17-2012, 08:31 PM
I think DeCastro is big enough to play RT, but he's highly rated as a G not a RT. If he was just a RT then I don't think his grade would be as high. Doesn't make sense to convert him. They could draft a guy in the 3rd, maybe even the 5th round who could be a hell of a lot better than Hunter and Ducasse. Don't think they want to convert a G to tackle in the first round just because he's an upgrade over either of the two worst RT's in football.



Good call, makes sense. Guys like Massie or Osemele would be great value if they fell to the 3rd round, but a more realistic 3rd round OT could be Schwartz. I'll throw the remote through my flatscreen if I have to watch Hunter start another season.

As for the 1st pick, I was throwing out DeCastro and Coples to see what you guys thought. Neither sound like a fit. I'm personally keeping my fingers crossed for Floyd. Although his stock is skyrocketing at the moment. Read today that some scouts are calling him a more complete WR than Blackmon. He'll probably be out of the Jets reach. Ingram would be nice, only if we don't move up to get him. Still a fan of Barron, the safety situation is scary for the Jets. Who's going to cover Gronk? Don't trust that Landry will be healthy. I live near Washington, and there aren't many fans heartbroken that Landry left.

All in all, getting pumped for the draft !!!

derza222
04-17-2012, 10:14 PM
I'd be very happy with Massie, Osemele, or Schwartz somewhere on day 2. Not sure it'll happen since it looks like Ducasse may get every chance to start, but it'd be a good pick.

As for the first pick, it'll be interesting to see what the buzz is right before the draft. The Ingram stuff came out a little early, but there tend to be leaks so I wouldn't be surprised if they do move up to get him. Wouldn't be happy with it, but there's a good chance it happens. I just think there's bound to be somebody solid who slips to 16. Really the value for what the Jets need is in the late round 1/early round 2 range I think, so a trade down would be ideal. Trading 16 and 47 to the Browns for 22, 37, and a 4th would be an awesome move I think, as would any other trade down really. But I'd be shocked if that actually happened.

Old School
04-18-2012, 03:08 PM
Please, someone assure me that the Jets are not going to take Upshaw with their pick! I keep seeing too many mocks that have Upshaw going to the Jets. With all the players that have positives and hype coming out around the area of the 16th pick, Upshaw is not one of them. Recent sources through SportsNews and ESPN have Upshaw dropping to the 20 to 40 range, "over concerns about his edge pass-rush ability" and "teams worry he can't cover". I feel like this would have bust written all over it! The Jets need an impact rookie, and can't miss on this one.

derza222
04-19-2012, 11:12 AM
I don't think they'll take Upshaw for the exact same concerns you mentioned. He's not versatile enough, think his upside is a poor man's Brian Thomas. Would be fine on the second day, but I want somebody who can be more in the first round. You never know until draft day though.

Rich Cimini recently updated his list of players he thinks the Jets might take at #16. He's been money the last few years and his lists of 5 or 6 guys have always included the guy the Jets have taken. This year's most recent list has Quinton Coples, Mark Barron, Dontari Poe, Courtney Upshaw, and Michael Floyd. It's an interesting list to me because you've got two guys who are major boom or bust prospects (Coples, Poe), one guy with a low ceiling high floor who doesn't appear to be a good fit (Upshaw), and two guys who kind of make sense but seem likely to be off the board (Barron, Floyd).

Cimini also mentions that he thinks they plan on taking the best defensive player available, and tosses out that the six that he thinks they'd like are Claiborne, Cox, Kuechly, Ingram, Poe, and Coples. The reason he lists Poe and Coples on the list instead of the other four is that he thinks those are the two who are most likely to be on the board at 16. He also manages to slip in Whitney Mercilus and mention that they've shown recent interest in him, so his 5 person list really mentions 10 players, though of all of them Claiborne is basically a lock not to be available and I think Cox is close to it as well. Certainly seems like they'll stick to their prior BPA strategy, although i'm not huge on the boom or bust guys. It'll be interesting to see what his final list looks like.

YotoJets007
04-19-2012, 02:43 PM
Please, someone assure me that the Jets are not going to take Upshaw with their pick! I keep seeing too many mocks that have Upshaw going to the Jets. With all the players that have positives and hype coming out around the area of the 16th pick, Upshaw is not one of them. Recent sources through SportsNews and ESPN have Upshaw dropping to the 20 to 40 range, "over concerns about his edge pass-rush ability" and "teams worry he can't cover". I feel like this would have bust written all over it! The Jets need an impact rookie, and can't miss on this one.


I am fine with Jets taking Upshaw or another pass rusher with a questionable package in the 2nd round. It is not uncommon that rush OLB falls out of the first round due to a lack of hip flexibility to play space. All we care is to have someone that is registering 8-11 sacks annually.

2nd round is a lot of cheaper than 1st round when it comes to money for performance situation.


If we concern about hip flexibility for rush OLB then Chandler Jones should be the one Jets take in the first round. Jones will suffer some serious negative media down in the season.


I want Bruce Irvin for either 2nd or 3rd round after all "top" rush OLB are taken but I can accept one of any "Boom or Bust 1st round" OLB in the 2nd round. Good value to gamble on having a full package OLB and it will be a nice value if he sacks regularly


For 16th overall selection, Jets can't afford to gamble one at all. Not even Ingram.

YotoJets007
04-19-2012, 02:47 PM
I don't think they'll take Upshaw for the exact same concerns you mentioned. He's not versatile enough, think his upside is a poor man's Brian Thomas. Would be fine on the second day, but I want somebody who can be more in the first round. You never know until draft day though.

Rich Cimini recently updated his list of players he thinks the Jets might take at #16. He's been money the last few years and his lists of 5 or 6 guys have always included the guy the Jets have taken. This year's most recent list has Quinton Coples, Mark Barron, Dontari Poe, Courtney Upshaw, and Michael Floyd. It's an interesting list to me because you've got two guys who are major boom or bust prospects (Coples, Poe), one guy with a low ceiling high floor who doesn't appear to be a good fit (Upshaw), and two guys who kind of make sense but seem likely to be off the board (Barron, Floyd).

Cimini also mentions that he thinks they plan on taking the best defensive player available, and tosses out that the six that he thinks they'd like are Claiborne, Cox, Kuechly, Ingram, Poe, and Coples. The reason he lists Poe and Coples on the list instead of the other four is that he thinks those are the two who are most likely to be on the board at 16. He also manages to slip in Whitney Mercilus and mention that they've shown recent interest in him, so his 5 person list really mentions 10 players, though of all of them Claiborne is basically a lock not to be available and I think Cox is close to it as well. Certainly seems like they'll stick to their prior BPA strategy, although i'm not huge on the boom or bust guys. It'll be interesting to see what his final list looks like.

Clairborne going to Jets. I doubt it but I surely hope it happens because it is a good chance that Jets find a trading down partner.


Barron and Floyd are ideal targets so that means Jets could trade up to get whoever is last availability. I don't want to see Jets to sit back for 3 years in row.

YotoJets007
04-19-2012, 09:11 PM
Kendall Wright's fat percentage is 16 percentage and benched a mere 4 times. That is good enough for 3rd round. Think Jets can toughen him up with pro conditioning?

Patriots are going to try to burn Jets' picks by suggesting that Mike Barron is their target. Not cool.

Hurricanes25
04-19-2012, 09:15 PM
I don't want Wright in the first but the game tape speaks for itself. The guy was fantastic this year.

And Derza, it's interesting that Cimini didn't mention Ingram in the 5 or 6.

derza222
04-20-2012, 07:57 AM
I don't want Wright in the first but the game tape speaks for itself. The guy was fantastic this year.

And Derza, it's interesting that Cimini didn't mention Ingram in the 5 or 6.

Yeah I know they brought Wright in for a visit. I think in the first it's obviously a mistake as you said, but they're doing their homework in case he slips and he's there in the second. I've got major concerns about him, namely how much RGIII influenced his production/numbers, but if he's there in the second it'd be tough to say no.

And I think it's kind of interesting, but at the same time Cimini's probably jerking people around a bit. He's going to write another one I'm sure before the draft, and I'd bet you that Ingram's going to be on that list. He needed to write this one so he'd have some built in changes. I wouldn't be surprised if he took off Upshaw and/or Floyd and added Ingram, and possibly Mercilus.

Old School
04-20-2012, 09:28 AM
Read this report on Wright today. No thanks in the 1st round.

(According to Pro Football Weekly, Baylor WR Kendall Wright is "parked in the third round" on a number of teams' draft boards after an unimpressive offseason.
There were rumors of an offseason weight gain for Wright, and his forty time at the Combine was slower than anticipated. "Randall Cobb was a lot better," one NFL evaluator said. "Wright is nowhere near as good with the ball in his hands and (Cobb) lasted 'til the back of the second (round). People are getting snookered (by Wright)." Wright managed only four bench-press reps, and Pro Football Weekly reports his body fat was 16 percent. Per PFW, it's "one of the highest percentages for a receiver in the past decade." )

hcbrad08
04-20-2012, 12:04 PM
I'm loving what I hear about Donta Hightower...I WANT HIM. either at 16 or a trade down. Can play inside or out. Start the discussion pros/cons.


-Hightower
-Harrison Smith
-LeMichael James

Dream Scenario

YotoJets007
04-20-2012, 12:56 PM
I'm loving what I hear about Donta Hightower...I WANT HIM. either at 16 or a trade down. Can play inside or out. Start the discussion pros/cons.


-Hightower
-Harrison Smith
-LeMichael James

Dream Scenario


Hightower should not be a member of top 20 so trading down for him is fine with me. Bart Scott's weight is already down to 235, give or take so I don't see them take ILB in the first round this moment.

Jets should not try to get "versatile" player in the first round because that kind of versatile player will not give us a 10 sacks annually. I think it is a wasted value, anyway. I like him as a downhill pass rushers but I wont be surprised that Jets would want him to lose weight in order to become 3 or 4 down players. Playing coverage against experienced or better players with speed will be problematic for Hightower if he translates from college to pro the exact way.


Smith is no objection to me but after media, scouting rumors and some fans went crazy for having Mark Barron at 16th. Not sure if Smith and Barron holds value equally.

I like Barron and Smith to play FS as a stopgap for a couple years. SS will be perfect for Jets.


Why James?

hcbrad08
04-20-2012, 02:16 PM
Because he's an underrated player who produced as a HR hitter at Oregon. We need a 3rd down back and I'm not sold on mcknight. He never HR ability on either level. 3rd rd value helps the offense that will run more. I don't think anyone who's not a homer would say I'm absolutely comfortable with Green Powell and McKnight as my backfield.

Also Hightower does belong in the top 20. He was the captain and playcaller of the best defense in college football. Bart isn't 235 and if he is he shouldnt be in our system thats wayy too small. He lost 15 lbs from 260 which he reported ballooned up to during last season. hes at his playing weight, but his replacement isnt on the roster. And versatility is HUGE in Ryans system they generate pressure from the inside and outside. Robinson played DE OLB and ILB at Bama. He's big young and fast, if not for a knee injury in 09 he'd be the first bama defender off the board and the most productive. It would spell Scott at times prolong his career and create a dangerous inside for years to come, while at the same time allowing Rex to put Harris Scott and Hightower on the field at the same time. Watch Hightower's highlights he's better in lateral coverage than upshaw.

Like I said Harrison is a dream scenario. he wont be there.

YotoJets007
04-21-2012, 09:15 AM
I dont recall Scott weighed more than 250 in his entire pro career. Always close to 245 than 250. He lost weights to get rid of fat and then planning to gaining some muscles on with pro conditioning. His weight should be back to his usual 242-245 without fat. Lockout may be the reason he gathered unnecessary fat due to not enough pro conditioning. Next year, Scott should revert to his old self.

Robcards
04-21-2012, 06:23 PM
I read the BDPA report as well, and it seems like were going to get who the Cowboys and Chiefs dont take. Im assuming one will take decastro and it its the chiefs the cowboys will take either barron or poe and if not the chiefs take poe or kuechly. Barron probably goes to eagles if cowboys dont take him so Poe or kuechly are most likely. Would absolutely love Kuechly, even though the direct need isnt there, scott is likely to be traded/released, making cap room to fill a need. Would also love Poe, the ceiling is high with him even though theres a huge bust risk

Coples could also fall to 16 in which case he'd clearly be bdpa but not sure if he can adjust to becoming a 2gap run stopper in the 3-4, he definitely wouldnt be OLB.

Robcards
04-21-2012, 06:55 PM
Because he's an underrated player who produced as a HR hitter at Oregon. We need a 3rd down back and I'm not sold on mcknight. He never HR ability on either level. 3rd rd value helps the offense that will run more. I don't think anyone who's not a homer would say I'm absolutely comfortable with Green Powell and McKnight as my backfield.

Also Hightower does belong in the top 20. He was the captain and playcaller of the best defense in college football. Bart isn't 235 and if he is he shouldnt be in our system thats wayy too small. He lost 15 lbs from 260 which he reported ballooned up to during last season. hes at his playing weight, but his replacement isnt on the roster. And versatility is HUGE in Ryans system they generate pressure from the inside and outside. Robinson played DE OLB and ILB at Bama. He's big young and fast, if not for a knee injury in 09 he'd be the first bama defender off the board and the most productive. It would spell Scott at times prolong his career and create a dangerous inside for years to come, while at the same time allowing Rex to put Harris Scott and Hightower on the field at the same time. Watch Hightower's highlights he's better in lateral coverage than upshaw.

Like I said Harrison is a dream scenario. he wont be there.

Fyi, speed change of pace back isnt the same thing as 3rd down back. James is servicable in the pass game. He is a homerun hitter indeed but his hands and blocking are definitely not that of a 3rd round back. Not saying he wouldnt be a solid mid round pick, just not what LT was by a long shot.

derza222
04-22-2012, 11:25 AM
According to Pro Football Weekly, the Jets are likely to target a WR who can stretch the field in the draft. Seems like it'll be somebody outside of round 1, and they're looking for a good size to speed ratio.

I don't see how they're going to find a big, fast guy who's ready to play right away outside of the first round (not that I think that they should draft one in the first, but guys like that will be gone), but the fact that they're looking for a stretch the field type is music to my ears. Last year the receivers just didn't separate well and Holmes is much better with a receiver across from him who demands safety attention.

YotoJets007
04-22-2012, 12:52 PM
According to Pro Football Weekly, the Jets are likely to target a WR who can stretch the field in the draft. Seems like it'll be somebody outside of round 1, and they're looking for a good size to speed ratio.

I don't see how they're going to find a big, fast guy who's ready to play right away outside of the first round (not that I think that they should draft one in the first, but guys like that will be gone), but the fact that they're looking for a stretch the field type is music to my ears. Last year the receivers just didn't separate well and Holmes is much better with a receiver across from him who demands safety attention.


It is hard to find the ready one, indeed. Tommy Streeter, Michael Calvin, Toney Clemons, Tyler Shoemaker and perhaps Stephen Hill are ideal for non first round WR.

Jets could draft either of them and sign Braylon Edwards. Trading Dustin Keller for higher pick to make room in salary cap for Edwards and sign UDFA blocker. That would work if Jeff Cumberland is fully ready in health and pro skill. Or give Josh Baker a shot at TE.


Depend on what team thinks about Dustin Keller vs Coby Fleener. Jets could net a good value in return. Rams' 2nd round pick? something like that.

Dunno, I was at a loss when Tannebaum decided to keep Hunter's 2.5m.


If Jets willingly give up the greater size/speed combo for speedy compact WR then it should be no problem. We will see.

derza222
04-22-2012, 01:00 PM
It is hard to find the ready one, indeed. Tommy Streeter, Michael Calvin, Toney Clemons, Tyler Shoemaker and perhaps Stephen Hill are ideal for non first round WR.

Jets could draft either of them and sign Braylon Edwards. Trading Dustin Keller for higher pick to make room in salary cap for Edwards and sign UDFA blocker. That would work if Jeff Cumberland is fully ready in health and pro skill. Or give Josh Baker a shot at TE.


Depend on what team thinks about Dustin Keller vs Coby Fleener. Jets could net a good value in return. Rams' 2nd round pick? something like that.

Dunno, I was at a loss when Tannebaum decided to keep Hunter's 2.5m.


If Jets willingly give up the greater size/speed combo for speedy compact WR then it should be no problem. We will see.

I do think Hill's going in the first round, but that's a solid list of size/speed guys. Don't think any of them are ready though.

Signing Edwards would be smart (though they'd be smart to have another option on the table), I don't think trading Keller would be though. For one, there are a ton of question marks at the TE spot outside of him, not sure anybody would actually step up and be a legitimate starter. And more importantly, given Sanchez is the starter (for now at least) trading his favorite receiver and the one he's most comfortable with isn't a great idea for trying to help him be successful. In fact if they trade Keller, I think it's a sign that they're looking for Tebow to start long term.

Was shocked about keeping Hunter as well. There are some rumors they're looking to move veterans for cap flexibility, wonder if Hunter is one of those veterans.

Also agree that they'd have an easier time finding a field stretcher if height wasn't so much of a concern. Guys like Givens from Wake Forest, Adams and Wright from Arkansas, and Jenkins from Illinois could be 2nd-3rd round options. I know they visited with Givens and Adams.

Old School
04-22-2012, 01:01 PM
A stretch the field WR is a must for the Jets. But I agree that finding one outside the 1st round would be tough. During the Jets Predraft News Conference Tannenbaum did say that the door was still open on a Braylon Edwards return.

With less than a week until the draft the news and smokescreens are flying around. But I did find it interesting that during the conference when asked about where the strenght of the draft was, Bradway started with RB's and mentioned of course, Richardson. Then today I read, "ESPN New York's Rich Cimini believes the Jets first priority in round one of Thursday's draft will be to explore trading up for Alabama RB Trent Richardson." Can't imagine what the Jets would have to give up to move up high enough to get him. While having a star RB would be awesome, not sure it would be worth the haul when we have so many needs.

YotoJets007
04-22-2012, 01:59 PM
I dont mean Jets should move Keller but given the situation between Sparano, Sanchez, Tebow and Keller, it is not exactly closed rectangle.

Sparano misused TE for blocking job so I am not sure Keller is strong or consistent at that but if Jets could not find any WR that stretch then I suggest Jets would use Keller for that part. If Jets find someone but Keller is the price to pay for a certain WR then I have to go for it.


Blocking TE is easy to find and UDFA is filthy cheap.

Tebow will be used as a position that is not QB. 2 QBs or 3 RBs in the backfield?

Losing Keller will be blown away for Sanchez, indeed but Sparano plans to throw football a little so who knows.

Moving Keller will create some cap room for whatever reason. Scott stays put. Pitouita or Hunter may be cap causality as low level veteran (sort of) but I am not sure if it will cover Edwards' price.


Trading up Richardson may requires to clear extra cap room. It also burns few good picks which I am not a fan. I may be okay with slower Richardson in Doug Martin in the low part of the first round if Jets are committed to taking RB in the first round.

gpngc
04-22-2012, 02:46 PM
I don't think they'll take Upshaw for the exact same concerns you mentioned. He's not versatile enough, think his upside is a poor man's Brian Thomas. Would be fine on the second day, but I want somebody who can be more in the first round. You never know until draft day though.

Rich Cimini recently updated his list of players he thinks the Jets might take at #16. He's been money the last few years and his lists of 5 or 6 guys have always included the guy the Jets have taken. This year's most recent list has Quinton Coples, Mark Barron, Dontari Poe, Courtney Upshaw, and Michael Floyd. It's an interesting list to me because you've got two guys who are major boom or bust prospects (Coples, Poe), one guy with a low ceiling high floor who doesn't appear to be a good fit (Upshaw), and two guys who kind of make sense but seem likely to be off the board (Barron, Floyd).

Cimini also mentions that he thinks they plan on taking the best defensive player available, and tosses out that the six that he thinks they'd like are Claiborne, Cox, Kuechly, Ingram, Poe, and Coples. The reason he lists Poe and Coples on the list instead of the other four is that he thinks those are the two who are most likely to be on the board at 16. He also manages to slip in Whitney Mercilus and mention that they've shown recent interest in him, so his 5 person list really mentions 10 players, though of all of them Claiborne is basically a lock not to be available and I think Cox is close to it as well. Certainly seems like they'll stick to their prior BPA strategy, although i'm not huge on the boom or bust guys. It'll be interesting to see what his final list looks like.

So what do you think about him today reporting that they're looking to deal up for Richardson?

Despite something I'm sure we agree on (the fact that this team cannot afford to trade up because doing so has made the bottom of their roster terrible - they have no quality depth), here are the reasons why I think it's possible:

A) The player they'd get at No. 16 is going to be heavily flawed. Each pass rusher/DL has huge warts as prospects. Except Barron, who will be gone.

B) The "**** it" mentality of this regime. They aren't afraid to make big moves. And they are at a crossroads. They are not building some sort of deep dynasty and can delude (maybe not?) themselves into thinking that yet again missing out on opportunities to draft role players won't kill them.

C) Trent Richardson was the missing piece. I said it all along - the offense had a myriad of issues from QB to OC to OL to WR but the MAIN reason they struggled so much was because they lacked the signature running game they had in the past. I blamed Greene. The team went 8-8 with Greene, who I believe was the main culprit for the offensive putridity. THEORETICALLY, improving that one spot with a HUGE upgrade, may be just what the team needs to get back to AFCCG status (and over the hump). They had a bad year last year, but not terrible, at 8-8. I understand that the defense wasn't great either, but adding a question-marked riddled pass-rusher at No. 16 and some other decent talents later may not make nearly as much as an impact as a guy who could potentially restore ground-and-pound, which helps, not only the offense, but the defense staying off the field, and the overall culture of the team.

derza222
04-22-2012, 05:56 PM
I dont mean Jets should move Keller but given the situation between Sparano, Sanchez, Tebow and Keller, it is not exactly closed rectangle.

Sparano misused TE for blocking job so I am not sure Keller is strong or consistent at that but if Jets could not find any WR that stretch then I suggest Jets would use Keller for that part. If Jets find someone but Keller is the price to pay for a certain WR then I have to go for it.


Blocking TE is easy to find and UDFA is filthy cheap.

Tebow will be used as a position that is not QB. 2 QBs or 3 RBs in the backfield?

Losing Keller will be blown away for Sanchez, indeed but Sparano plans to throw football a little so who knows.

Moving Keller will create some cap room for whatever reason. Scott stays put. Pitouita or Hunter may be cap causality as low level veteran (sort of) but I am not sure if it will cover Edwards' price.


Trading up Richardson may requires to clear extra cap room. It also burns few good picks which I am not a fan. I may be okay with slower Richardson in Doug Martin in the low part of the first round if Jets are committed to taking RB in the first round.

Jets have plenty of cap room, so I don't think that's really going to be a consideration in terms of trading someone like Keller. Scott and Hunter are staying put anyway because cutting them won't save any money in terms of the cap.

And there's a chance that Sparano used blocking TE's because that's what he had. I'm sure given a tight end whose strength is catching the football and who has a good rapport with the team's starting quarterback, they'll use him that way. Good coaches will modify systems somewhat to fit personnel, I'm sure that won't be too hard to do in terms of finding slightly different ways to use the tight end.

And blocking TE's aren't that hard to find, but that just opens up another hole and one that would probably need to be filled in the draft as free agency is basically done. I also think Keller can stretch the seam a bit, but won't stretch the field like a fast WR would.

So what do you think about him today reporting that they're looking to deal up for Richardson?

Despite something I'm sure we agree on (the fact that this team cannot afford to trade up because doing so has made the bottom of their roster terrible - they have no quality depth), here are the reasons why I think it's possible:

A) The player they'd get at No. 16 is going to be heavily flawed. Each pass rusher/DL has huge warts as prospects. Except Barron, who will be gone.

B) The "**** it" mentality of this regime. They aren't afraid to make big moves. And they are at a crossroads. They are not building some sort of deep dynasty and can delude (maybe not?) themselves into thinking that yet again missing out on opportunities to draft role players won't kill them.

C) Trent Richardson was the missing piece. I said it all along - the offense had a myriad of issues from QB to OC to OL to WR but the MAIN reason they struggled so much was because they lacked the signature running game they had in the past. I blamed Greene. The team went 8-8 with Greene, who I believe was the main culprit for the offensive putridity. THEORETICALLY, improving that one spot with a HUGE upgrade, may be just what the team needs to get back to AFCCG status (and over the hump). They had a bad year last year, but not terrible, at 8-8. I understand that the defense wasn't great either, but adding a question-marked riddled pass-rusher at No. 16 and some other decent talents later may not make nearly as much as an impact as a guy who could potentially restore ground-and-pound, which helps, not only the offense, but the defense staying off the field, and the overall culture of the team.

I basically agree with you. Essentially, the entire post.

I'd be okay with standing pat at 16 and holding onto picks, but if they're attached to drafting a pass rusher that's scary to me because as you said, they all have a ton of warts. Honestly I'm not too big on drafting a pass rusher for that reason, and especially trading up for one. I get that it's a need, and if there was a relatively clean pass rusher in this draft I'd be down to move up to get him. But there's not at all, and I think drafting one's essentially a coinflip. Not exactly what's needed.

In all honesty there aren't a ton of great directions to go in at 16. Kuechly is one of the cleanest prospects in the draft but doesn't really fill a need and is probably gone. Exact same thing goes for DeCastro. Barron's not quite as good as those two but still damn good and also probably gone.

Then even the non pass rushers have warts Floyd's good aside from off the field and toughness issues, andh e's probably gone. Glenn's ideal aside from issues about how dominant/physical he is for his size, and it looks like they aren't going to take a RT anyway. Poe's a physical beast but doesn't play like it on the field, I think sitting for a couple years and learning from Ryan/Dunbar and Pouha would be one of the best possible situations for him but that's a huge gamble. Coples has the motor/effort issues, and I'm still not quite sure where he fits. Looks like he could be a really good 5-tech to me if he wants to be, but a) I'm not sure if he does and b) I think they might try to stand him up a-la Mario Williams and I'm not sure he's that kind of athlete.

There's a couple of guys I think fit but they don't really match up in terms of need. Hill I think is a great fit for what they need at WR - good blocker, deep threat, size - but he's super raw and in a run first offense do you really make that investment in the first round? Randle is another really interesting guy, played with eh QB's and was productive which is good because he'd see that here. Size, can run after the catch a bit and make some plays, pretty strong, think he can separate, I think he could end up a pretty good receiver but the value at 16 doesn't match up. Kirkpatrick as a FS is really interesting, but you're changing his position and since the money's better at corner he probably wants to stay there. Then pass rushers like Perry and Branch have more tools than Upshaw and Ingram but again value doesn't match up and they still have warts. I love Doug Martin, but don't like the value and he's just not nearly the back Richardson is.

If I could out of this draft with any player it's Richardson, and the reasons you outlined are rock solid. I also agree completely that this team really can't continue to just throw away picks and the depth is awful. Honestly to me it probably comes down to this - can they move up to get him without giving up their first in 2013? If they can, I'd be upset that they ignored needs and depth to go get a running back, but because I really agree with C above along with A and everything I just outlined about my opinion, I could live with it. But if they do give up that pick, and it appears they might have to, I think it's just too much to give up for an important piece on a very flawed team. Honestly I think/hope Tannenbaum wouldn't, I know that was an issue in trading up for Harvin and I think he really values number one picks, but who knows. If the team had two legitimate starting caliber safeties, wide receivers, and RT who wasn't a turnstile I think I'd be pissed about giving up the #1 next year but could deal a little better. But to give all that up to get Richardson and then watch the team fall flat on its face because of other holes and go 8-8 next year and have no #1 pick would suck.

So all in all I agree and I ended up ranting a bunch, but I think it depends where Richardson goes and how much they have to give up to go get him.

YotoJets007
04-22-2012, 09:13 PM
Jets want more than 7.8m cap room. Why? I dunno. It could be Jets bite the stick and release both Scott and Hunter after the draft is completed. It could be Jets have an expensive stud to trade for during the draft.

Robcards
04-22-2012, 09:32 PM
Trading up for trich isnt a possibility, he isnt getting past 6 how in the world are the jets going to trade for pick 4? Thats the pick theyd need bc if hes there at 5 the bucs would take him. I doubt the Browns would even trade the pick they did it last year in lieu of taking Jones I doubt theyll do it again, they need trich badly. Our depth is **** if we trade up for anyone i dont care if its jesus h christ, its a huge mistake.

YotoJets007
04-23-2012, 10:43 AM
ESPN New York‘s Rich Cimini believes that the Jets will first “explore” a trade up for Alabama RB Trent Richardson. Should that not work out, Cimini sees them shifting their focus to South Carolina DE/OLB Melvin Ingram. If by chance they can’t get either deal done, Cimini believes that they’ll stay at #16 overall and take the best player available.

A trade up for Richardson is going to cost them a lot in terms of draft picks, and considering that they’ve had a limited number of picks to work with in the past few year’s, it would make sense for them to try to do as much as possible with them this year. Running back is a need, but giving up the majority of your draft for one seems like a poor decision.

I’m a huge supporter of Melvin Ingram and see the Jets as one of the best possible fits for him. His versatility should be a huge addition to their defense and there’s actually a chance that he could still be on the board by the time they’re on the clock at #16 overall.

Cimini mentions that S Mark Barron, NT Dontari Poe and WR Michael Floyd could all be options for them if the other two players are gone.

Did I just copy and paste legally?

According to Cimini, Jets' plan will be Trent Richardson, Melvin Ingram, Mark Barron, Dontari Poe and Michael Floyd.

Is it in sequence? I am not happy with Poe and Ingram before Floyd.

katnip
04-23-2012, 12:58 PM
I'm a fan of Trent Richardson as a player. But I'm not a fan of the idea of trading up to get him. To me Doug Martin offers the same type of value, except you can get him at #16 most likely. But I'd rather have Michael Floyd, personally at #16

If the Jets go defense at #16. It wouldn't suprise me if they traded back into the late 1st to get a RB or WR to help out Sanchez. Like they did when they grabbed Vernon Gholston & Dustin Keller.

Old School
04-23-2012, 01:41 PM
As a fan, I'd like to see the Jets stay where they are at #16, but to find a way to move up in the 2nd round. For example, maybe a situation where we land a defensive player, like Ingram, at 16, then move up in the 2nd to grab a player like Doug Martin or David Wilson. Or the other way around, land a player like Floyd at #16, then move up in the 2nd for a defensive player, like Chandler Jones (who've they seem to be rumored to have high interest in).

There seems to be many directions the Jets could go at #16 where players draft out with a similar grade. Makes sense to stay put.

YotoJets007
04-23-2012, 01:56 PM
If Jets stay put at 16 then whoever is taken in it could be a reach. I will want to trade up and get one that will play right away. I like to see Jets make a small trade to move up few spots to get ahead of Chiefs, Cowboys and Seahawks for Mark Barron.

I know king's ransom is only the way to get Trent Richardson but the draft is not underway so we have no idea what package will it be to trade up and get Trent Richardson or Melvin Ingram. Only those two players Jets "rigorously" trade up for in media.

YotoJets007
04-23-2012, 02:17 PM
http://www.thejetsblog.com/2012/04/20/new-york-jets-updated-player-interest-list/

As of April 20th. I am disappointed to learn that Deshawn Shead is not one of them. grrr!!

I find the list a quite interesting. A bunch of local and small school players are on the list. It looks like Jets plan to poach lesser players for late round or UDFA as Jets would aggressively burn good picks to move up in the 1st round or 2nd round picks.

thetedginnshow
04-23-2012, 06:49 PM
Okay. So I have a bunch of random thoughts that I'll put down. To me, it's great that the NFL prohibits you from trading your compensatory picks. That way Tannenbaum can't just throw them away like he usually does. They might not make great picks, but at the very least it would be nice for them to bring in some young, athletic bodies for depth purposes.

Our needs, IMO, are OLB, S, OT, WR, and RB. Of those, I believe WR, S, and OLB are essential, but not necessarily things that need to be addressed first in the draft. We are, however, in a strange transition because of the run-heavy offense, so they might not see WR as a big issue. In my mind, WR might be more important than any other position, as they could hypothetically find stop-gaps at the other areas of need. With WR, in a worst case scenario, I would venture to say we have no viable starting receivers. Kerley really would only be effective in the slot. Holmes could theoretically separate himself from the team once more, and it's clear already that his heart isn't really in the right place. We could very easily be seeing him on a different team after this season. So to me, WR is of the greatest importance, but they probably don't see it that way.

One thing I find kind of funny is how transparent our FO is. Tannenbaum tries so hard to say exactly the opposite of what he really is thinking that he actually ends up making himself easier to read. He's just a bad liar and doesn't deal with pressure very well. It, however, is very sad that even as late as we are picking in the draft, and with our player personnel moves in general, team reps as well as the media can fairly easily depict what the Jets will do in a given situation. Hopefully the Jets are a little different this year in the draft, but we'll see.

I feel like we will, at best, only have two selections on the first two days. I think it's almost a lock for us to be trading up at some point.

I also think it's interesting because lately I've been hearing a lot about BPA from Cimini and others as far as what the Jets are doing, and I think Tannenbaum even said that they always try to do that. But honestly, I don't really remember a recent draft where we didn't go with the position of need. If they actually valued the BPA philosophy, there 1) wouldn't be such a need to trade up all the time, and 2) they'd probably be a lot better off.

thetedginnshow
04-23-2012, 07:40 PM
So these are the players that we've been mildly linked to that I want to discuss a little more. Feel free to pick things apart.

Whitney Mercilus - OLB - Illinois - Isn't that a great name for a pass rusher? I'm worried about his ability in space, but I love his motor. He never seems to stop, much more so than any other OLB prospect I saw. Just talking on the hybrid OLB guys in general, I saw the VP of scouting say they look at instincts, arm length, athleticism, and intelligence. With him, I worry about the instincts as a possible deterrant, but he really knows how to get after the QB. He's probably not well rounded enough for them, but I love his character and I really like how vicious he is finishing plays.

Bruce Irvin - OLB - West Virginia - IMO, he's the best pass rusher in the draft. He's ferocious. He's the fastest to the QB with terrific explosiveness off the snap and his combine numbers back it up. If what we were really looking for was a pass rusher, we'd go after him. I worry about his checkered past, the fact that he doesn't seem incredibly intelligent, and the recent charge he had, but if he could get past those things, I feel like he's far and away the best pure pass rusher. He doesn't have a lot of moves but he's just so fast that with some coaching I don't think anyone could stay in front of him. He would be a liability in coverage, but would it honestly matter if they have no time to throw?

Courtney Upshaw - OLB - Alabama - I honestly don't think we're looking at him, judging by what they've been saying publicly, and I don't think he's very good either. He was, at best, the third best player on that defense. He has not explosion whatsoever, is pretty slow in space, can't cover, can't really rush the QB... he's pretty decent against the run though. He would be a solid contributor, and it's funny that he's being compared to Bryan Thomas because that's what I saw in him a while back, but I really think there are better options.

Dont'a Hightower - LB - Alabama - He's the better option. He's about the same size as Upshaw and gives you the versatility of using him inside. He's pretty good in coverage, great against the run, and for my money the pass rusher on that Alabama defense. He's just nasty and he moves much better around the field. I don't really see a problem with him playing on the outside.

Michael Floyd - WR - Notre Dame - We probably wouldn't trade up for him, but to me, he's the best receiver in the draft. I love his jump ball ability. His off-field issues are a concern, but I don't think he was ever a problem on the field. I doubt we draft him, but I think he will be very good.

Trent Richardson - RB - Alabama - He's a very good runningback, but I hate drafting RBs in the first. I'm pretty picky about RBs (I didn't really care for Greene or McKnight at the time of the draft), but I think he's going to be a good one. I always liked him more than Ingram. But again, I hate drafting RBs in the first. Trading up for one would seem to be even worse of an idea, unless you're getting a franchise maker (which with him I'm not sure you get). We could do far worse though, so I wouldn't really mind, as long as they don't trade the house for him.

Stephen Hill - WR - Georgia Tech - I really like him. I think he's coming from the perfect scenario that would make him fit right into our new offense. Beyond production, he would seem to have everything that we could possibly want in a receiver. He's got the size, the speed, and the blocking ability, and he's really the only receiver in the draft that offers that repertoire. Watching him in interviews he seems to have fantastic character. Not really sure why he chose Ga Tech, but I'm going to assume he was a late blossomer. It really sounds like they have their mind set on taking defense in the first, but I can still dream. I think he's going to be good.

Melvin Ingram - OLB - South Carolina - Well, if we'll have our way, Ingram is going to be with the Jets. Rex just loves him too much and they've made that very apparent. I just find it interesting that he sees him as his Adalius Thomas, but AT was maybe the fourth best player on the defense he was on, maybe even less. I would think we would need a feared pass rusher, which Ingram is not. People have made a big deal of his athleticism, which he does have, but he doesn't have explosion. He just isn't a natural pass rusher. He may put up decent sack totals, but he can't impose his will on an opposing offense. His value is in his versatility, which I feel like the Jets sometimes get a little too caught up in. It is nice that he can do a lot of things for you, but if he doesn't do any one thing great, I don't know if that's worth a first rounder, especially when it doesn't fill the real need at the position. I think he would be good for us, but just not necessarily what we should be going after. He seems like a high character guy as well, so he could really grow into being an integral part of our defense for years to come.

Some 2nd or 3rd day guys...

RB
Chris Polk, Washington - So I live in Washington and I've seen Polk play. He's really good. We seem to need a power back though, so he's probably not what they're looking at.
LaMichael James, Oregon - However, if they do look to a smaller, quicker back, James is great. I see him going somewhere where he can fill a role, like with the Patriots, but I think he's pretty talented.
Robert Turbin, Utah St. - I don't know how well he'll transition, but he's probably the only power back worth mentioning since I don't think Doug Martin will really be in our range to draft.

WR
Brian Quick, App. St. - Outside of Blackmon, Floyd, and Hill, this is my top receiver. He's deceptively fast and has some good hands. He can do a little bit of everything and he's a big guy. The competition is a worry, but fine players have come out of the program before.
Mohamed Sanu, Rutgers - I'm only really mentioning him because he said he would rather plays for the Jets than the Giants. He's good, but nothing special. I don't think he's big enough, or conversely, fast enough, to really stand out. Nothing more than an average possession receiver, but I feel like many Jets fans will be pining for him because of the Jersey ties.
Ryan Broyles, Oklahoma - I'm assuming he's going on the third day, and if he does, and he recovers, he will be a steal. Probably doesn't fit in with us, but he's a very good receiver.

OLB
Vinny Curry, Marshall - I don't really know if he can play OLB, but I like his pass rush ability. He's probably better suited in a 4-3.

S
Harrison Smith, Notre Dame - He's actually kind of awkward moving around, but at the same time, he seems pretty fast. I can't explain it. I like his work ethic and his nose for the ball, and I think he would be best suited as a centerfielder, which just so happens to be what we need.

So, based on what we seem to truly need from a skillset standpoint at positions of need, the players I would think we should most covet would be...
Bruce Irvin
Stephen Hill
Harrison Smith
Dont'a Hightower
Trent Richardson

The players I would shy away from would be...
Quentin Coples
Dontari Poe
Cordy Glenn
Nick Perry
Andre Branch
Mike Adams
Kendall Wright
Alshon Jeffery

YotoJets007
04-23-2012, 10:43 PM
If Jets plan to trade up then the prospect will be a starter that fills a need. I am not sure about RB being a priority need with Tannebaum being a fan of McKnight and Powell but they are pushable down.

OLB in Ryan system is rarely utilized as a cover man. That is why Ryan loves to have a bunch of secondary players on the roster. Having OLB with coverage skill will help S to roam around freely. Unfortunately, OLB with coverage skill is still a rare. That is why it does not make any sense to draft OLB without good coverage skill in the first round. Ingram offers more fluidity in open space but he is only good at shoot gap like Wade Phillips system.

If Jets trade up for Ingram then Pettine has to modify the defense to make Ingram a worthy to invest in.



Panthers media suggests that Ingram wont fit and he belongs to 3-4 OLB so Jets may not have to make a great leap to get him. Tim Fugger as a demon pass rusher. It definitely sounds cooler than Whitney Merilcus. :banana:

thetedginnshow
04-24-2012, 01:02 AM
One guy that I think is pretty interesting is Shea McClellin. I don't really know where to place him. I heard he had several concussions in college, and sometimes he seems to get completely washed out. However, of all the OLB prospects, he seems to easily be the most fluid, even if the numbers don't necessarily support that. He seems to get around the edge with the greatest of ease and his penetration seems to be consistent with someone of the levels of Irvin opposed to an Ingram, Upshaw, or Perry. He also had more experience covering skill position players than most. I would say that he might even have a Clay Matthews sort of meteoric rise. Not sure how much interest we have in him though.

derza222
04-24-2012, 09:31 AM
TTGS, a few thoughts on your thoughts. From the first post, the BPA point is interesting, and to an extent I agree. I have a feeling they take the BPA on their board, but modify their board to fit needs. At the same time some picks (like the Kyle Wilson one with Revis on the roster and having just traded a 2nd for Cro) kind of seem to be BPA picks.

Mercilus I'm coming around on a bit. The first couple of times I watched him I saw a guy who picked up a bunch of coverage sacks, wasn't always the best player on the defensive front, got stood up on contact, was ineffective against the run, and was a stiff, linear athlete. But like you said he's got a tremendous motor, is a good athlete, and just finds his way to the quarterback. The one year wonder thing is a bit of a concern, but sack production seems to translate pretty well from college to the pros and he was both productive and a great athlete. Now he was told to pin his ears back and go after the QB a bunch and will need some development in terms of technique and learning to set the edge, but the production and athleticism is a really interesting package.

Sidebar, I actually think Mercilus may be the pick so to an extent I might be trying to talk myself into liking him a little bit. The comment you cited above about the front office looking for arm length, athleticism, intelligence, and instincts in OLB's has me thinking that the Ingram thing might be a bit of a smokescreen. He's going to fit in three of those areas, but is a huge question mark in terms of arm length. You run the risk that he's going to get engulfed by bigger tackles, and the fact that he was more productive going against guards is a concern. He's a great fit as a chess piece you move all over the place, but if they're looking for a pass rusher he's not the guy IMO. Maybe 8 sacks a year at the absolute most. Mercilus fits the criteria they're looking for more, you could argue that while his overall instincts aren't great he did have good instincts for getting to the QB. There's a lot of upside there too. I can just see them explaining the pick: "We felt Whitney was the best pass rusher in the draft. He was highly productive in a good conference, and we've frequently seen that sacks are a statistic that translate well from the college game to the NFL. Additionally he has not been playing football as long as many players in this draft, so we feel his overall upside is enormous. Right now we have some veterans we are happy with in Bryan Thomas and Calvin Pace and we feel they can help bring him along as he transitions to a new position along with Aaron Maybin who we feel has a bright future with this team. We're excited that Whitney is a Jet." Plus they love Big Ten players for whatever reason, seem to draft guys early who have both production in college and athleticism, and have a lot of faith in their defensive coaches to get the most out of players and help develop them. Mercilus seems like he's got a good work ethic too, and Cimini recently tossed out there that they like him. I bet he finds his way onto that final prospect list that Cimini puts out. And on top of it all this would mean they're smokescreening on Ingram but this leaks out late when Cimini writes about it, and taking Mercilus at 16 is almost like trading up for him because he'll almost certainly be on the board and considered a reach. It'll be BPA for them and they can keep their day 2 picks to address safety and WR. I could be wrong, but I think this is the pick.

Anyway back to replying to your post, I do like Irvin and think he's got a lot of upside. If I'm remembering right I think he played safety at some point so he probably could develop in coverage, he certainly has the speed and agility to do that really well. My one concern with him is he's really, really undersized and probably has no chance of starting right off the bat. He'll be a liability against the run almost guaranteed which Rex can't like and more or less he's Aaron Maybin with better movement skills and upside. Nice player, but seems a bit redundant on the roster.

Upshaw I agree, and I actually think he's worse than Bryan Thomas because Thomas is really good in coverage and I don't think Upshaw will offer anything there. I don't think they like him and I certainly hope they don't like him. Interestingly enough if 7 of their 8 OLB's on their board played DE in college, only one of Upshaw/Hightower can be on their board. I'd guess Hightower, but who knows.

With Floyd I love him on the field, but the toughness concerns bother me. Additionally he does seem to be a straight line athlete, but I think that can be overcome. He probably won't be available anyway. Richardson is awesome, but he won't be there and I'm not sure you trade up for him. If you do you're basically conceding that Tebow's going to be the starter, or you think he's the missing piece and you're comfortable with guys stepping up at WR, your two worst starters last year becoming passable players or somebody magically becoming better than them on the roster, and Bryan Thomas's health. He's an awesome player though.

Hill and Ingram I agree on, and I've been saying the exact same thing about Hill being a fit because he's big, fast, and blocks. I don't think they like Hill though, and they might like Ingram for the reasons you stated or not like him for the reasons you stated. Right now I lean not, but reserve the right to change my mind.

Polk I like though he seems to take a little while to get going. Once he does he's pretty fast though. James I think would be a nice addition to get a dynamic home run hitter, something that I think is needed on this offense because right now there's no big play threats anywhere. If he could be Leon Washington esque that'd be sweet, and I think he could. And I'm not sure they need a power back, but I do like Turbin.

Quick I like, 'Canes and I drafted him in the forum mock. Big, athletic, can move after the catch and run block. I worry that he's raw and might not be a starting caliber guy this year because of it, but he's interesting. Sanu I love and I think in the right situation he's a really good player as a #2 across from a dynamic #1 receiver. Somewhere like Houston I think he'd thrive. Not here though, he'll catch some short passes but I think a deep threat is needed for Holmes to have success. Great blocker though. Agreed on Broyles too, think he'll be a steal but don't like the fit.

Curry I like and I think with his agility he might be able to stand up. Think they'll address it in the first though so it won't be an issue. Smith I like too but I don't think he'll be around, I'd prefer a safety who's better in man too. Interestingly I saw Tony Pauline say their top 5 safeties in order are Barron, Smith, Brandon Taylor, Iloka, and Trenton Robinson. I'd guess they pop Taylor in the 2nd if they really love him, if not and he's there in the 3rd I think he's a logical pick (assuming they hold onto both/either of those picks). McClellin's interesting because he's so fluid and was a good pass rusher, I think he's getting a little overhyped though and don't like him at 16. Not the best fit either if they're looking for a pure pass rusher, although his versatility would be nice. We'll see what happens.

Hurricanes25
04-24-2012, 02:26 PM
Forum Mock (Derza and I)

1.16 Melvin Ingram, OLB, South Carolina
2.47 Harrison Smith, S, Notre Dame
3.77 Brian Quick, WR, Appalachian State
5.154 Andrew Datko OT, Florida State
6.187 Adrian Hamilton, OLB, Prairie View A&M
6.202 Rhett Ellison, TE, USC
6.203 Asa Jackson, CB, Cal Poly
7.232 Darius Fleming, ILB, Notre Dame
7.242 Carson Wiggs, K, Purdue
7.244 Andrew Tiller, OG, Syracuse

I think we're both pretty happy with the results. What are everyone else's thoughts?

YotoJets007
04-24-2012, 03:13 PM
Forum Mock (Derza and I)

1.16 Melvin Ingram, OLB, South Carolina
2.47 Harrison Smith, S, Notre Dame
3.77 Brian Quick, WR, Appalachian State
5.154 Andrew Datko OT, Florida State
6.187 Adrian Hamilton, OLB, Prairie View A&M
6.202 Rhett Ellison, TE, USC
6.203 Asa Jackson, CB, Cal Poly
7.232 Darius Fleming, ILB, Notre Dame
7.242 Carson Wiggs, K, Purdue
7.244 Andrew Tiller, OG, Syracuse

I think we're both pretty happy with the results. What are everyone else's thoughts?

Solid. Missing out a speedy WR, RT and a true FS. speedy WR always is available in UDFA. FS can be picked next year. RT remains problematic.

I like Bolden better but Jackson is good enough to replace Revis if Jets move forwards for cost effective. Surely, releasing Cromartie will be only the way to give Revis a fat contract next off season but I like Jackson, not Wilson, step up replacing Revis if he holds out this season.

Fleming is a decent pickup for a potential replacement to Bart Scott after this year.

Ingram can move Pace to SOLB so Jets wont be in hurry with Hamilton's developmental process. I believe Pace willingly restructure the contract, though.

Datko's shoulder kills his 1st round grade. 3 or 4 shoulder surgeries already. damn. He should back up Ferguson perfectly. I don't expect him play RT a full time. UDFA RT to compete with Hunter and Ducasse? eek!!

Hurricanes25
04-24-2012, 03:36 PM
Thanks for the input Yoto.

I think we have 4 immediate starters:
Ingram- self explanatory
Smith- I agree that he projects better to SS, but he would play FS this year and hopefully over to SS next year. (I don't think Landry is here long term)
Quick- Not 100 % sure if he can play right away but he's talented. He could at least compete for the starting spot.
Wiggs- Better than Folk.

Then we have:
Datko- Probably can't be a starter on the right side. He'd get a chance to compete for it though. Nice backup at LT if anything.
Hamilton: Developmental pass rusher. I could see him being Rex's pet.
Ellison: Great blocking TE. He'll contribute.
Jackson: Small school corner who has the tools to start 1 day. Good special teamer for now.
Fleming: Depth
Tiller: depth

Obviously, this is all hypothetical. Still fun to discuss.

thetedginnshow
04-25-2012, 02:48 AM
I like the mock you guys did. I honestly don't think Harrison Smith will be there at that pick because of how shallow the Safety position is this year, but we'll see. I really don't think Quick will be there in the 3rd either, but that might just be because I like him a little more than the guys that are being rated above him.

As for what you said derza...

Honestly, I don't think Mercilus is the pick. He just doesn't seem like their kind of player, IMO. I don't know. I can't put my finger on it. A lot has been made of what happened with Gholston and how that shaped their drafting methods for converted OLBs and I just don't think Mercilus would pass the test. And I love his pass rush ability but even I don't know how he would do in a 3-4. Him and Jones, to me, are hard to tell if they would be as effective standing up, though they seem to have that upper echelon level of athleticism and quick-twitch ability to get after the QB. Also, as a side-note, I hate to see Cimini talking about how nice and safe a pick like Upshaw would be, and how they always talk up Ingram's pass rush ability. I worry more because I feel like he's hearing these things from our personnel, but I also worry because I feel like it starts to mislead the Jets faithful that rely on their information. Then, if we don't take those guys and actually make a good pick, they might disapprove.

With Irvin I understand why they wouldn't take him, and they probably aren't even really seriously looking at him, but I just personally think they should look less at positional versatility and more so and what's most important (getting after the QB). The only reason they can't do things like that is because they have no real depth to speak of, but they shouldn't let their poor drafting techniques continue to hamper how the franchise runs things.

I really am terrible at scouting Safeties. I don't really know what makes them good or not. The only times I've been right were with Michael Griffin and Eric Berry being good and Taylor Mays and Michael Huff being bad, I think. Maybe a few others. I just think it's so variable whether they're going to be good or not. So I don't know what to really say about all that, but I do think Harrison Smith is better coming downfield rather than being asked to flip his hips and backpedal covering some receiver, so I would say he's better used as a centerfield type. He's kind of slow, but he's good with the ball in the air. Barron doesn't seem as special to me as people make him out to be. He's good, but I definitely don't think he's the coverage Safety we're looking for. The rest of the guys mentioned don't really do much for me, but I love Brandon Taylor's aggressiveness. It might put him in a bad situation quite a few times, but at least he's quick to the ball and fearless. That at the very least gains some points with me. I honestly would be more inclined for us to draft a big corner and put them at Safety. There isn't really too many good coverage Safeties in this draft (actually, I feel like there never are) and seems like a foregone conclusion that we will be drafting one with the [lack of] roster moves they've done and all that they've been saying (like talking up Eric Smith or thinking about bringing back Leonhard). I don't know where he heard this and he isn't a Jets fan, but one of my friends was telling me he heard a rumor about us trading up and if Richardson isn't there, we might be looking at Claiborne (which I figure would signal Cro to FS). That would be kind of interesting. I don't know what I would think about that. I certainly would be far happier trading up for him than Ingram. What say you guys? I'll try and figure out where he heard that from, but it might just be a random smokescreen.

With the RB situation, I saw from Cimini or one of them saying they were looking for a power compliment in the backfield, so that's what I figured we were looking at. Of the RBs being brought in, it also seems to be that most of the backs are either well-rounded or lean more towards the short yardage situations. While I think we do need a power back (how Greene manages to be mediocre yet good at nothing baffles me), I kind of feel that that was part of the whole spin on the Tebow trade was to use him in those situations. And I just feel like on both sides of the ball we need more explosive athletes, so a guy like James is somewhat I would be on board with. Oh one thing looking back. I lied. I think Richardson is a franchise maker. I was trying to blind myself because I hate drafting an RB early, but he's pretty amazing.

As for with McClellin, his natural pass rush ability seems to surpass the good majority of the prospects we're looking at. He has an awfully quick first step and he has very good functional strength. You might say he's getting overhyped, but he's the only one who truly stood up and played OLB and played it well. Upshaw and Ingram only did it in packages.

derza222
04-25-2012, 08:26 AM
Yeah for the mock I think we were both surprised Smith and Quick were there and happy to get good values at positions of need. Pretty happy with how it all came together.

On Mercilus, it's really just a guess more than anything else. Probably to an extent me trying to come up with something besides the extremely obvious seeming trade up for Ingram pick. If they do something unexpected, I think it's a possibility because he fits their athleticism-production criteria. It'll be interesting to see what they do for sure, kind of tough to tell because outside of Ingram we really don't know who they like. Lots of Chandler Jones in mock drafts and rumors, which I really hope doesn't happen. I think that'd be a disaster.

For Irvin I do agree that they should look less at positional versatility and more towards getting to the QB. And I think he's capable of having that positional versatility as well with his athleticism. But I also think physically being strong enough to set the edge in the run game is just a minimum requirement that they'll have for all OLB's, and I agree with it. Last year we saw examples of how teams could break big plays to the outside and take advantage of the struggles that the team's backup OLB's had setting the edge. Taking a guy who's primarily a pass rusher but has the athleticism and hip flexibility to drop occasionally and the strength to set the edge successfully would be ideal, in my eyes. But holding up in the run game is key.

As for safeties, it's tough because I think the team could use a ton of help at that spot so almost anyone is an upgrade. They're certainly tough to scout because you don't know how often the team plans on using them in man and they need to be able to do a lot of things. I like Taylor a lot though. He really fills in the run game, can hit, and doesn't look awful in coverage either. Trent Richardson made him look silly a couple of times, but he made a couple of plays on Trent too and I think that's just something that will happen with an elite, elite back like Richardson. He looked great against Florida too. If they don't take a safety in the first two rounds I'd be pretty happy with him in the third.

Agree on the explosive athletes thing at the RB position. Wouldn't be huge on a power back, that's what Greene is supposed to be. Give me somebody who can hit a home run. I'm not a big David Wilson guy because I think his vision is awful and he fumbles, but somebody like James or Lamar Miller who can take it the distance from anywhere on the field would be great for the offense. It's missing that explosive element and that'd be a nice addition. I love Doug Martin too, but not at 16 and he'll be long gone by the time 47 rolls around.

From what I've watched of McClellin I liked what I saw and he's certainly got a nice combination of athleticism, versatility, and pass rush ability, I'm a little leery of him because he was such a late riser. And maybe that was just on the internet. It seems like 16's a little early, but if he's good then it doesn't really matter.

Old School
04-25-2012, 09:06 AM
With the insane amount of Mocks I keep scrolling through, these are the ten names I see pop up most often for pick #16:

Ingram
Jones
Mercilus
Coples
Upshaw
Floyd
Barron
Reiff
Glenn
Perry

Who would you be the most excited about and why?

Who would you be the most disappointed with and why?

derza222
04-25-2012, 10:55 AM
I don't think there's much in the way of slam dunk picks that can be made at 16. Guys I'd be okay with are Ingram (versatile athlete who could be a valuable member of the defense but don't think he'll be an elite pass rusher), Barron (should be a rock solid safety but I don't see an elite talent), and Glenn (think he fits what's needed from a RT in the run heavy offense and worst case he's a really good guard, but I'd like to see more tenacity and dominance).

I'd be kind of in between on Mercilus (great athlete and highly productive but stiff, not sure he can cover, not that great against the run, not sure his production was as good as you'd think), Coples (big, strong guy who can get after the QB some and get in passing lanes but not sure where he fits, don't think he's the athlete that he's billed to be, and motor issues), Floyd (great straight line and vertical WR along with blocking, off field issues and I can't get over the toughness question marks), Reiff (seems like he'd be a solid RT, not a tremendous fit as I'd like more dominance in a run blocker, didn't love what I saw on tape and talk he might have to kick inside though), and Perry (great size and explosiveness to mold, didn't really what I watched, stiff and think he lucked into some of his production).

Then I'd be disappointed with Jones (not a ton of production, had an injury, good but not freakish athlete, doesn't move that well, not sure why he's risen so much besides long arms and people trying not to miss out on the next JPP) or Upshaw (wonder if he'll get engulfed by bigger tackles and washed out against the run, offers nothing in coverage, don't see an upgrade over Bryan Thomas).

thetedginnshow
04-25-2012, 11:15 AM
Most happy with Floyd. I think he offers the most impact. Most disappointed with Coples or Perry. If Perry was drafted that high he almost assuredly would bust. Coples just looks like a bust, and I honestly don't think he should go to a 3-4 team if he has a chance at succeeding.

Old School
04-25-2012, 11:49 AM
I keep going back and forth on Ingram and Floyd. I'd be most excited about either of those picks. Like you said Derza, I like Ingram's versatility and pass rush ability. Matched with Rex Ryan's schemes, maybe the Jets will finally have someone teams are worried about besides Revis on D.

With Floyd, how could you pass on a weapon for Sanchez/Tebow. To me, the WR position was the biggest problem for the Jets last season. One guy who gave up and wouldn't give his all on routes, another old and rusty out of jail, and a rookie. I know Sanchez gets the blame, and deserves a lot of it, but he didn't have a lot of help.

As much as some OL help is still needed, I'd be most disappointed if that is the direction the Jets went with in the 1st round. There is a better chance to pick up an impact OT in the later rounds.

I'd also be disappointed with the Jones pick. I like the story, with the interesting bloodlines and all, but I'd be turned off by the rapid rise up the board recently. I'd like the pick a lot better if it were the second round.

And then there is Coples...... I hear all the negatives, but what if Rex could get the most out of him. Could be the best pick for us.

derza222
04-25-2012, 11:54 AM
Completely off topic, but Jayron Hosley is a guy the Jets have supposedly shown interest in, and he apparently failed the combine drug test. Corner from VT, had a great sophomore year but a disappointing junior year and came out anyway, seemed like a day 2 pick prior to this news but I'm guessing might slip some.

With poor depth at the position, if the Jets still have their 5th and 6th round picks I could see them making a move for him on day 3, maybe getting up into the 4th round. They don't seem to care much about failed drug tests (tried trading up for Percy Harvin) and have taken day 3 upside types who might not have lived up to their talent level (McKnight for example).

Pure speculation, but I'm curious to see what they do with these day 3 picks. They won't be worth much in a trade up before maybe the 3rd round, but it doesn't make sense to draft 7 guys in rounds 5-7, so to me it could make sense to target a day 3 guy and go get him. Could see a developmental OL, a RB who slips, or a 4th corner make sense (plus WR, OLB, or S obviously if they don't take at least one of those positions on the first 2 days). Hosley sounds like a logical candidate. Supposedly they like Omar Bolden, ASU corner who missed the year with an injury and would fit the same mold.

Hurricanes25
04-25-2012, 12:51 PM
The rumor of the Jets trading up for Richardson is starting to pick up some steam. According to Cimini, the Jets called him on Sunday to discuss contract info in case we take him.

As much as I love Richardson, we're gonna have to give up a lot to move up for him. I don't think we can afford to do it but what the **** do I know.

Old School
04-25-2012, 12:51 PM
I always felt that the Jets willingness to take players with failed drug tests or off the field issues, was because each year we seem to lack a great number of picks and would risk those issues for greater talent. Not because they had some great mentoring program or something.

With Hosley, you'd be getting great value if he slipped. CB's seem deep this year with talent, and I've seen him ranked around 7th best. I'm not too sure he'll slip too far though, only because he hasn't had any other noticeable problems off the field. Attach that he had some concussion issues last year, and maybe that would lead him to slip. With Revis threatening hold out again, and Ryan's love for CB's, adding a player like Hosley late would be a smart move.

What about a player like Burfict? A former 1st round possibility that is now pushed down as far as being rumored to go undrafted. With so many late and sometimes almost useless picks, if he was sitting there, why not take the chance. I mention Burfict because of failing his drug test, like Hosley at the combine. I know Burfict and Hosley shouldn't be comparable, because one has much more off the field issues. But targeting late talent that slipped because of off field issues doesn't sound like a bad idea to me.

Old School
04-25-2012, 12:59 PM
The rumor of the Jets trading up for Richardson is starting to pick up some steam. According to Cimini, the Jets called him on Sunday to discuss contract info in case we take him.

As much as I love Richardson, we're gonna have to give up a lot to move up for him. I don't think we can afford to do it but what the **** do I know.


They also added that it is common practice for teams to do this leading up to the draft. But it does show that the Jets are in the mix for possibly trading up. It's tough to find a mock that doesn't have Richardson going #4 to the Browns. And there has been a lot of talk about the Vikings shopping their #3 pick with multiple suitors interested. It scares me to think of what we'd have to give up. Maybe possible players with picks? The can have Greene !!!

YotoJets007
04-25-2012, 02:37 PM
1. Colts- Luck.
2. Redskins- Griffin.
3. Jets (Vikings)- Richardson.


Next 3 teams that may take Richardson.

4. Browns.
5. Buccaneers.
6. Rams.


If Jets want Richardson that bad then they have to trade up to get ahead of those three Richardson suitors to ensure the RB pick. Rex Ryan plans to draft a blue chip pass rusher in 5th round. I guess he doesn't lie.:facepalm:


I am not sure whether or not I cancel the plan for Friday night. Sighs.

derza222
04-25-2012, 02:52 PM
The rumor of the Jets trading up for Richardson is starting to pick up some steam. According to Cimini, the Jets called him on Sunday to discuss contract info in case we take him.

As much as I love Richardson, we're gonna have to give up a lot to move up for him. I don't think we can afford to do it but what the **** do I know.

I hope it's either a) a smokescreen or b) just doing due diligence in case he slips to 7 or something. If he's around at 7 I've got no problem with biting the bullet and going to get him. He's likely the most talented player in this draft and completely changes the offense. But giving up essentially all valuable picks in this draft and next year's #1 is too much.

As a side note, you'd think one year the Jets would be able to smokescreen with ridiculous ease. Things always leak out and everybody buys it because things always leak out. If they let something false leak out for once and play their cards close to the vest it they could really benefit from it, i.e. if they don't really like Ingram but like some other OLB early this year and want to take him but keep it quiet. Or even a tackle or something. Nobody would see it coming.

thetedginnshow
04-25-2012, 03:12 PM
I've been hearing that the Jets probably aren't willing to give up as much as they would have to in order to draft Richardson, but they really like him. I guess what we can hope for is a slide to maybe 6 or 7 and swing a trade, but he will probably be gone by then. At this point, I don't really care. I've kind of resigned myself to the fact that they will trade up at some point, so I would at least like for us to trade up for someone that's really good.

Hurricanes25
04-25-2012, 03:14 PM
One guy I don't want is Chandler Jones. He's way to stiff to stand up in the 3-4 and I personally don't see him as being a great pass rusher. I just don't see what the hype is all about with him.

Old School
04-25-2012, 03:19 PM
I've kind of resigned myself to the fact that they will trade up at some point, so I would at least like for us to trade up for someone that's really good.


Agreed Ginn, although I read on "The Official Site of the New York Jets", a mock by Real Football Services that has the Jets trading up to #12 with Seattle to grab Upshaw. That would be a nightmare !!! Not that I don't trust that Upshaw could be an impact player, but if we trade up, it better be for someone like Ingram, Floyd, Richardson. Otherwise stay put.

Hurricanes25
04-25-2012, 03:21 PM
Agreed Ginn, although I read on "The Official Site of the New York Jets", a mock by Real Football Services that has the Jets trading up to #12 with Seattle to grab Upshaw. That would be a nightmare !!! Not that I don't trust that Upshaw could be an impact player, but if we trade up, it better be for someone like Ingram, Floyd, Richardson. Otherwise stay put.

Trading up for Upshaw would be horrible. Hell I don't even want to trade back for him and I would love to trade back.

Old School
04-25-2012, 03:23 PM
And with that Mock, they also noted the following:

"The guy they really want, Melvin Ingram, is already gone. But we are hearing a lot of talk about the team’s interest. If the Jets really want him, they might have to go as high as No. 7 to get him, because as we mentioned, despite the talk, there’s no guarantee that Miami is going with Tannehill and could very well look for a pass rusher with its first pick. To move that high, the Jets would have to give up a package of picks, for example, this year’s first (16), second (47), fifth (154) and sixth (187) could get it done. They could also trade next year’s first-round pick, or next year’s second and third."

The more I hear about trading up, the worse I feel about it. The Jets have so many holes and a lack of depth. This doesn't seem like a good year to do it.

YotoJets007
04-25-2012, 04:07 PM
If Jets want Richardson then they WON"T wait until he has been passed thrice (3 aforementioned teams in my previous post). I can see Jets keep trying to make a deal during each OTC for Richardson. Surely, we the public wont know what is going on in the war room but I highly doubt that Jets will wait until the selection where Jets can begin to strike a deal.

Ingram could fall out of top 10 so it is a lot cheap to trade for him (I hope not). Jets can wait to see how far will Ingram fall downward.

Basically, Jets willingly give a lot for Richardson but not for Ingram.


Ah That Jones is fluidity enough to play OLB. In fact, it is a lot more than Mericlus. His problem is indeed a legit pass rushing. Ryan failed to convert Ghloston and Westerman into a reliable pass rusher in no time so I don't see how successful will Jones be under Ryan.

derza222
04-25-2012, 05:14 PM
One guy I don't want is Chandler Jones. He's way to stiff to stand up in the 3-4 and I personally don't see him as being a great pass rusher. I just don't see what the hype is all about with him.

Agreed. That would really bum me out, and there's a bunch of rumors that they like him. Apparently they just sent a ton of guys up to 'Cuse to work him out. Long arms, not a ridiculous athlete, moves okay but not outstanding, just mediocre productivity. It's like teams are afraid to miss out on the next JPP, but Jones isn't as good.

Hurricanes25
04-25-2012, 07:51 PM
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/04/25/report-jets-unlikely-to-trade-up-to-get-trent-richardson/

The price tag is too much to move up for Richardson. If he falls the Jets might still trade up for him. I can sleep tonight.

thetedginnshow
04-25-2012, 08:11 PM
Cimini says if we don't go for Richardson, we're going to be looking at Ingram, Floyd, or Brockers. Is this his final list or does he do an official one later on? I can't remember for last year. However, I would be very surprised by Brockers. I'm not quite sure if he'll transition well to the 3-4 or not, but I would think that with all the holes we have, he shouldn't even be in consideration.

I'm so nervous. I have class at the time of the draft, so I'm either going to cause a commotion for good or for bad. Preferably good.

Old School
04-25-2012, 08:21 PM
Message to Jets: Keep pick #16. Trade up with the 2nd pick to grab Doug Martin. T-Rich is too expensive. I think we'll still be happy!

derza222
04-25-2012, 09:31 PM
I'd guess there will be another one tomorrow. That seems kind of informal and he'll probably toss a 5th, maybe a 5th and 6th name to it to make sure he can keep his streak alive. That or he's extremely confident they're trading up for Ingram and they love Brockers, because I think there's a really good chance Ingram and Floyd are off the board and to be left with just Brockers if they stand pat at 16 seems risky.

And I'm a huge Doug Martin fan, but I think they could use their picks more wisely. Wouldn't be shocked if he lands in the first either.

YotoJets007
04-25-2012, 09:38 PM
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/04/25/report-jets-unlikely-to-trade-up-to-get-trent-richardson/

The price tag is too much to move up for Richardson. If he falls the Jets might still trade up for him. I can sleep tonight.


Jets must be upset with me for exposing their plan for number 3. Abort!

Or are they trying to hush us down?

Bourbon and milk before sleeping is helpful.

YotoJets007
04-25-2012, 09:51 PM
I think Jets should sit out on Doug Martin in the 2nd round and take David Wilson instead.

1st- Chandler Jones. OLB
2nd- David Wilson. RB
3rd- Omar Bolden, CB
5th- Danny Coale. WR
6th- Tim Fugger. OLB.

That group will bolster the locker room big time but as far as game result is concerned it is hard to say. umm.

thetedginnshow
04-26-2012, 12:58 AM
So stole this from TJB but let's have a competition! Throw out any ten names of players that you believe the Jets will draft. Any round. The person that gets the most correct wins!

thetedginnshow
04-26-2012, 04:01 AM
This is my list of 10 potential's.

Melvin Ingram
Michael Floyd
Adonis Thomas
Matt McCants
Zebrie Sanders
Travis Lewis
Toney Clemons
Jeff Adams
George Iloka
Vinny Curry

thetedginnshow
04-26-2012, 04:08 AM
The draft pick value chart is most likely not an exact science, but just something to note, it seems as though our 1st and 2nd rounders would be able to get us to about 8, and our 1st and 3rd would get us to around 12. I still don't really condone trading up, but that doesn't seem to be too stiff of a price. Not sure who they'd really be interesting in trading up for besides Richardson (all smokescreens aside), however.

Speaking of the Crimson Tide, I think for me personally what would hurt most about the Upshaw pick is that I think much more highly of Hightower. We haven't really looked into either, though.

derza222
04-26-2012, 06:25 AM
For what it's worth (and who knows how much, because there's so much misinformation going around right now) Tony Pauline said in his mock that the Jets either want to move up for Ingram or down for Silatolu or McClellin. Thought it was interesting.

Old School
04-26-2012, 08:45 AM
My list of 10 potential's.


Melvin Ingram - OLB
Quinton Coples - DE
Doug Martin - RB
Nick Toon - WR
Bruce Irvin - OLB
Kelechi Osemele - T/G
James-Michael-Johnson - ILB
Philip Thomas - S
Evan Rodriguez - FB/TE
Kyle Wilber - DE/LB

Nebkreb
04-26-2012, 09:11 AM
Rather than 10 specific players, here are the positions of the ten picks in some order:

S
WR
WR
RB
CB
OT
OLB
ILB
DE
K or P

derza222
04-26-2012, 11:10 AM
Nothing specific in terms of an interest list yet, but Cimini said that he expects the Jets to consider Ingram, Barron, Floyd, or DeCastro as a RT at 16. If they're all gone then a move down is possible.

Two follow up thoughts on this. One, unless they move up I think there's a good chance that all of the players on the list are off the board. Most likely one to me is DeCastro, and I don't see why you take him to be a RT. He's elite inside, not sure if he's going to be as elite at tackle and I don't think you mess with him. That'd be a big risk to me.

And two, I'm thinking that there might be a deal already worked out with a team to move down. I also think that team might be Detroit. The real question would be the parameters of the deal, but the thought is that the Lions want to secure a player in the secondary and are willing to move up. Claiborne and Gilmore will likely be gone, so Kirkpatrick sounds like a logical target. He's also an excellent fit for the Bengals who need help in the secondary, love taking corners, frequently pick SEC guys with good tools, generally make it obvious which players they like and get snaked by teams moving up ahead of them, and happen to be picking 17. There's obviously a lot of other logical scenarios and I'm not sure what the compensation would be (based on the value chart a third this year and a third next year seems like the closest to fair, but who knows how much that's used), but that one seemed to make a lot of sense.

YotoJets007
04-26-2012, 12:26 PM
Sal said 0.0 chance to trade up for Richardson. It is likely for Jets to stay put at 16 for Ingram or Floyd with DeCastro as 3rd option.


I am not a fan of drafting OL to start right side. Please be available, Floyd.

YotoJets007
04-26-2012, 12:27 PM
So stole this from TJB but let's have a competition! Throw out any ten names of players that you believe the Jets will draft. Any round. The person that gets the most correct wins!


should start the thread for that?

Hurricanes25
04-26-2012, 12:47 PM
For what it's worth (and who knows how much, because there's so much misinformation going around right now) Tony Pauline said in his mock that the Jets either want to move up for Ingram or down for Silatolu or McClellin. Thought it was interesting.

If we move down to the low to mid 20's and take McClellin, I would be happy with that. I don't think he's an elite pass rusher, but I think he's better than what we have and getting him in the 20's would be a decent value. Getting some more picks would be nice too.

I've never seen Silatolu play but I'm a little hesitant with small school offensive lineman simply because of Ducasse.

derza222
04-26-2012, 12:47 PM
Cimini just posted an article on what to watch for in the first round. I get the feeling he's pretty plugged in, so this I think should give us a relatively good feel for what's going to happen tonight. Big point is that it's likely they move up or down, because they have 8-10 guys in their upper tier on their draft board and then around a dozen players with similar grades, so if they can't get one of those 8-10 in a move up or at 16 they may as well move down and get some value.

He basically says that trading up for Richardson is cost prohibitive, which I think we already knew. There are three potential targets in a trade up: Mark Barron, Fletcher Cox, and Michael Brockers. Barron obviously would fill a huge need, it seems that there's a ton of demand for him and I'm not sure if they really want to move up that far. The rationale for Cox and Brockers is more value than need, so I'm guessing he just knows that the Jets are really, really high on both and both are expected to be gone. Cox is awesome, but should be long gone before they have an opportunity to trade up. Brockers I don't like as much, he's a big guy who moves alright but isn't an outstanding athlete. He'll be a good run defender, but in an attacking hybrid scheme I'd want more pass rush potential, like Cox has actually. I'd hope they wouldn't trade up for him.

At 16 he says that the Jets would consider Ingram, Floyd, and DeCastro. I almost think you can throw Brockers into this group as well since trading up for him seems unrealistic, but maybe they see pass rushing upside I don't. They apparently like Ingram enough to take him at 16, but not enough to move up. This could clearly be a huge smokescreen, but it does make sense to me. I don't see a ton of pass rushing upside, so he'd be great as a versatile defender at 16 but not sure I'd sacrifice picks to move up for him. If that means he's off the board so be it, although with other guys getting chatter (Barron, Jones, Gilmore, Brockers) about going higher he might slip anyway. In fact, I kind of think he will unless somebody leapfrogs the Jets to get him. Anyway, Floyd's obviously a solid fit with #2 WR a huge need and him offering size, vertical ability, and run blocking ability. Probably off the board though. Taking DeCastro to move him to RT would be a monumental mistake IMO. he's special as a guard, don't think he'd be special as a RT. If they really feel the need to take him, move Slauson to RT or see what you can get for Moore. That's probably one of the worst things they could do tonight though.

Then if all of those players are off the board (which kind of seems unlikely, you have to figure 9 players are coming off the board after Luck, RGIII, Claiborne, Richardson, Kalil, and Blackmon, there's 6 players listed here and Chandler Jones, Ryan Tannehill, Luke Kuechly, and Stephon Gilmore seem likely to come off the board before 16 as well along with a ton of other possibilities), the Jets would consider trading down. In that trade down targets would likely be Chandler Jones or Whitney Mercilus, maybe Quinton Coples or Dontari Poe. Jones could be gone before 16 so I don't think he'd be likely in a trade down, so then you're probably looking at Mercilus if he's there and maybe Poe, Coples, another pass rusher, or somebody like Cordy Glenn if he isn't depending on how far they drop. Seems like an unlikely scenario to me though, as much as I'd like to see them move down and add some extra picks.

YotoJets007
04-26-2012, 01:09 PM
I still will get my meal ready by 3rd overall selection. Learned my lesson when Jets moved up and got Mark Sanchez and I had to eat and watch other team drafting. It was not exactly enjoyable.

I am still think Jets can trade up to Vikings' spot because Vikings may not want to pay top 5 money so they may reduce the value.

YotoJets007
04-26-2012, 01:13 PM
If we move down to the low to mid 20's and take McClellin, I would be happy with that. I don't think he's an elite pass rusher, but I think he's better than what we have and getting him in the 20's would be a decent value. Getting some more picks would be nice too.

I've never seen Silatolu play but I'm a little hesitant with small school offensive lineman simply because of Ducasse.


I am not crazy about taking small school prospects any time prior to 3rd round. Not sure about him being a first round, let 16 alone. I know 49ers love him at 30th but I am sure there are plenty of power mauler for RG and RT job for the midst of the draft. I hope Jets can focus on dynamic prospects for first 2 rounds and then beefing up linemen.

thetedginnshow
04-26-2012, 01:45 PM
Cimini's article kind of threw me off. He keeps throwing in names we haven't seen previously, so I wonder if those are smokescreens. Cox really perplexes me. I hate the idea of drafting a DT in the 1st, probably even more so than a RB, unless they're an otherworldly talent like Suh. But with Cox he seems perfectly suited for the 4-3, but I think he would be terrible in the 3-4. If that were the choice, I would expect a surprise shift in our defensive philosophy to be more 4-3 oriented, but honestly, I don't think that's happening (not that I particularly think he will be available anyway).

Brockers I don't have a huge problem with if we absolutely have no other option, and he's a smart player. I like the intangibles he brings, but I honestly don't think he'll be the pick.

The DeCastro thing is really weird though. We keep hearing that, but is there any indication he can play RT? Silatolu at least played OT. He's miles ahead of Ducasse though. At least I could tell how terrible Ducasse was. That's the one position where if they seem that dumb, there's really no hope for them. Silatolu plays with a nasty streak.

I'm really happy to hear we aren't looking to trade up for Ingram though. I'm mildly alright with the pick, but trading up for him would be ridiculous. If they were both available though, it would be interesting to see if Ingram is the top option and Floyd really is option 2.

derza222
04-26-2012, 02:09 PM
I definitely agree it was a confusing article, particularly with all the DT stuff. I just don't really see it making sense in the first round. Plus the DeCastro to guard thing. I did like that he cleared up Upshaw not being the pick and Poe/Coples not seeming likely, though. But at the same time he's flipped back and forth on so much stuff, I can't really tell what he actually knows.

Cox I actually think is a much better fit in the 3-4 hybrid front than Brockers is. He's a guy who had the athleticism to line up at defensive end for Mississippi State, and isn't just a straight line guy. I see a fluid athlete who happens to be big enough to hold up at the POA. Think his ideal fit is in the kind of 3-4 that Ryan and Pettine run actually where he can attack from an end spot and utilize his athleticism but still have some DT responsibilities with his size and strength as well. Great motor too. I actually think he's the most certain upgrade to the pass rush the Jets could pick in the draft, Ingram/Upshaw won't contribute there and everybody else is a huge question mark. Irrelevant though I think, because he'll be long gone.

Brockers I'm not as big on, because I think he's a 2 gap 3-4 lineman and won't fit as well in the attacking style the front utilizes. I think he'll get double teamed and hold up against the run, but there's not much else he brings to the table and I'd rather see a more athletic player. Particularly with Wilkerson, who's athletic but might be less so as he fills out and already really big, at one of the 5-tech spots. You're talking about down the road having two five techniques who are going to be probably in the 330 ballpark when they finish filling out, Wilkerson I think was 315 at the combine and Brockers I thought was 320-ish. If he was the freak athlete he was labeled as I'd be okay with it, but he's not. Steady, big, long arms, takes up double teams, not an outstanding athlete screams more two gap 3-4 to me than what the Jets run.

Agreed on the DeCastro/Silatolu thing. DeCastro at RT is probably the worst thing they could do tonight. There's a ton of other scenarios I'd rather play out, I just couldn't see being able to rationalize taking an elite guard and moving him out to be a tackle when there's not much that says he'll be great at it and he's special because of his qualities as a guard. Hopefully we don't have to deal with it.

I think Floyd will be gone, but it'll be interesting to see what they do. I'm skeptical about their interest in him because on a call with reporters they were so straightforward about liking him and why they like him. Makes me wonder if there's something about him that they don't like. We'll see though.

derza222
04-26-2012, 02:15 PM
Tony Pauline also just tweeted that if the Jets stand pat at 16 they could give Mercilus a long look.

Hurricanes25
04-26-2012, 02:37 PM
Tony Pauline also just tweeted that if the Jets stand pat at 16 they could give Mercilus a long look.

I prefer Mercilus over Jones but I wouldn't be a fan of the pick.

derza222
04-26-2012, 03:26 PM
I prefer Mercilus over Jones but I wouldn't be a fan of the pick.

He's interesting. On one hand from watching him play I wasn't a fan at all of a lot he did from a technique perspective. Gets stood up and washed out of a lot of plays, offers very little against the run, and he's just a linear athlete. But on the other hand he's clearly a good athlete, excels in space, has a pretty good motor, and sack production tends to translate well on the NFL. That last one I think is key too, but there are exceptions I'm sure.

Hurricanes25
04-26-2012, 03:41 PM
The 1 year of production scares me. Though, it was against some very good o-lines in the Big 10 so that's a positive I guess.

I don't know. I'm very hard to please this year. I have a feeling that I'm gonna like our 2nd and 3rd round picks a lot more than out 1st unless we take Ingram, Floyd or trade down.

derza222
04-26-2012, 03:50 PM
Yeah, it's tough to write off 16 sacks though and the Big Ten does have some good lines. As I look at it now though, sack production seems to be hit or miss. Lots of huge seasons didn't translate at all even for big conference guys: 16 for Greg Middleton and Bowers, George Selvie, Gholston, Brandon Jenkins, Jamaal Anderson, and Everette Brown all had 14...Can write off a lot of those guys for not having the tools Mercilus does, but still. Only a part of the equation.

And best case scenario for me is that I end up okay with our first round pick but have a couple of major gripes about the player or what we did to get that player, so you might have me beat there.

Old School
04-26-2012, 04:40 PM
Been off-line since this morning, feel cut-off from the draft world so far today !!! Trying to catch up. On my drive home, the radio said that there is a rumor floating that the Jets trade their 1st and Sanchez to the Browns, to move up and take T-Rich. Lol, no way I believe this, but I still thought it would be an interesting idea to post. Made me think, man, anything can happen tonight. Can't Wait !!!

derza222
04-26-2012, 04:51 PM
Rumors the Jets want Chandler Jones. Willing to trade up to get him. Wouldn't be happy about that.

thetedginnshow
04-26-2012, 06:07 PM
The 1 year of production scares me. Though, it was against some very good o-lines in the Big 10 so that's a positive I guess.

I don't know. I'm very hard to please this year. I have a feeling that I'm gonna like our 2nd and 3rd round picks a lot more than out 1st unless we take Ingram, Floyd or trade down.

Well, don't get too excited about our 2nd and 3rd rounders. We might just trade those picks. Haha.

Old School
04-26-2012, 06:12 PM
Rumors the Jets want Chandler Jones. Willing to trade up to get him. Wouldn't be happy about that.



Read the following about Jones this morning:

"Both NFL Network's Mike Mayock and Michael Lombardi agreed on Path to the Draft Wednesday night that Syracuse DE Chandler Jones is the best defensive player in the 2012 draft.
"I'm gonna make a statement," said Mayock. "Three years from now, I'm gonna say Chandler Jones is the best defensive player to come out of this draft." Chimed in Lombardi, "I think what Mike Mayock said is right. He is the best defensive player in the draft." Mayock recently bumped Jones to No. 9 overall in his top-100 rankings, and to No. 1 among defensive ends. Lombardi went so far as to suggest Jones could be a top-ten pick."


Even with that, I'm still not too excited if that is the pick. Trying to read through all the smokescreens coming out, and whose names keep getting brought up. Wouldn't surprise me if the Jets pick ends up being Ingram, trade up, or not. His name seems to be quiet today.

Old School
04-26-2012, 06:24 PM
Bury the Richardson talk.....


"The Browns acquired the No. 3 pick in the draft from the Vikings in exchange for four draft picks, including the No. 4 overall. The Vikings will also receive the Browns' fourth-, fifth-, and seventh-round picks."

YotoJets007
04-26-2012, 06:40 PM
wait a minute! trading up from 16th? It does not make any sense unless it means for trading back into 1st round from 2nd round.

Floyd and Jones in the first round sound more logical.

thetedginnshow
04-26-2012, 07:01 PM
ahhhhhhhhh i cant take the pressureeeeeeeeeee

derza222
04-26-2012, 07:06 PM
Yeah this is intense. Huge draft for this team, I think if Tannenbaum screws this up he's gone.

josh07039
04-26-2012, 08:29 PM
Nobody freak out. Its gonna be okish....maybe.

derza222
04-26-2012, 08:31 PM
Nobody freak out. Its gonna be okish....maybe.

I'm terrified it's going to be Chandler Jones.

Old School
04-26-2012, 08:34 PM
I'm terrified it's going to be Chandler Jones.


Lol, same here! This draft couldn't have unfolded better, except maybe for the Floyd pick.

josh07039
04-26-2012, 08:34 PM
I'm terrified it's going to be Chandler Jones.Id rather have others, but I dont think hes gonna be terrible, just kinda average. Ingram is probably the best pick.

derza222
04-26-2012, 08:40 PM
So Coples. Where do we put him? I think he's going to stand up and play 5-tech.

josh07039
04-26-2012, 08:40 PM
High risk high reward.

thetedginnshow
04-26-2012, 08:40 PM
Well, I'm speechless.

Old School
04-26-2012, 08:42 PM
Well, there it is. Hope Rex gets the most out of him. Could be a great pick. Not disappointed.

Old School
04-26-2012, 08:44 PM
I'm up 1 - 0 on you Ginn, lol !!!

Hurricanes25
04-26-2012, 08:45 PM
I would think they put him at DE and have him generate a pass rush from there. Like Josh said, this is a high risk high reward pick.

derza222
04-26-2012, 08:47 PM
Yup it's a huge gamble. If he works out it's a tremendous pick. Not sure it does though. If they want to play him at OLB they'd better have him drop like 20 pounds, I think he's a five technique and they try to generate pressure that way.

Interesting because it opens up the possibility of taking an OLB at #47 or moving up into the late first for one which would be a classic Tannenbaum move. Could see Branch or Curry at 47.

thetedginnshow
04-26-2012, 08:50 PM
Well, we'll know where they play him if they draft another OLB before the 4th. But honestly, Mario Williams was about the same size and played OLB for the Texans. Who knows. I was just watching tape of Coples to prepare myself yesterday and he's honestly pretty beast, but there's just something that doesn't seem that explosive about him. I don't know. We'll see. The more I think about it, however, I think I'm more content with this than Ingram for some reason.

Old School
04-26-2012, 08:51 PM
Interesting because it opens up the possibility of taking an OLB at #47 or moving up into the late first for one which would be a classic Tannenbaum move. Could see Branch or Curry at 47.


I think Jets go offense on the second pick. WR/RB/OL best player on their board at either of those positions.

Hurricanes25
04-26-2012, 08:51 PM
He's lazy and doesn't have a high motor. That's what's missing in my opinion.

Old School
04-26-2012, 08:57 PM
Good write-up on Coples:

"One of the draft's true boom-or-bust prospects, Coples will be paired with one of the league's top defensive minds in Rex Ryan after mailing in his senior year at North Carolina. Accused of playing more not to get hurt than anything else, Coples saw his numbers fall across the board before turning in a dominant Senior Bowl performance. Despite being a mammoth 6-foot-6, 284 pounds, Coples ran a 4.72 40 at the Combine in addition to an eye-popping 1.63 ten-yard split. If Ryan's motivating powers are successful, Coples could immediately emerge as one of the league's top young pass rushers."

thetedginnshow
04-26-2012, 09:14 PM
After watching this, QQmysrkRd3o

they're definitely putting him at OLB. And I feel much more comfortable about the pick now. Also looking at his stats I feel much more comfortable. People say he was underwhelming and still did great. Kind of reminds me when people were detracting from Kiwanuka.

The more I look into this, the more I'm on board. The only guy I could see being more explosive was Irvin. He definitely could still bust, but now I'm content.

thetedginnshow
04-26-2012, 09:25 PM
Goddamnit. Stupid New England. I feel like this is a rigged draft. Well maybe Jones will be bad. Hightower is going to be good though. I know it in my heart.

Old School
04-26-2012, 09:29 PM
Goddamnit. Stupid New England. I feel like this is a rigged draft. Well maybe Jones will be bad. Hightower is going to be good though. I know it in my heart.



First off, thanks for the Coples vid Ginn, enjoyed it, he looks like a beast if he wants it.

Second........ NE has a way of ruining everything. Great 1st round for them. Brady has a sh#$y grin on his face right now. Hope Jones was way overrated.

thetedginnshow
04-26-2012, 09:30 PM
Okay, I lied.

Coples was teammate of Wilkerson at Hargrave Military Acamdey. Wilkerson told Jets he's a great teammate and a better player than him. #nyj

Rex was impressed by how Coples didn't tire during Pro Day workout. Said Coples can play OLB but that's not what they brought in to do. #nyj

Those are both from Jenny Vrentas.

thetedginnshow
04-26-2012, 09:40 PM
What are the predictions for the next round? I say... we trade up... for something.

derza222
04-26-2012, 10:00 PM
So with Coples, he's playing end. And I'm happier with it that way. He seemed like a goofy fit standing up. This is essentially taking Fletcher Cox with motor concerns. Big guy who can get after the QB as a 5-tech, really good fit as a DE in a hybrid 3-4 IF they can get him to play hard. The need was to help generate pass rush, I'm fine with doing with someone in the front 3. Doesn't necessarily have to be an OLB, and particularly without an OLB who's an ideal fit, it makes sense. I do like the pick a lot more knowing he's not standing up, but there's still motor concerns.

I kind of hope the next pick is a **** the offense, let's help improve the defense selection. Upshaw's probably off the board and I'm not the biggest fan but I mean if he's on the board at 47 I'm fine with giving it a run. Branch or Curry would be nice. I could dig Iloka who I think is a great fit at safety. If Stephen Hill doesn't go to the Giants he's an ideal fit at WR, and Rueben Randle could be a really solid option as well. Cordy Glenn would be all kinds of awesome, and Massie and Schwartz are good fits at tackle as well. Lots of good possiblities. Can't wait.

Hurricanes25
04-26-2012, 10:34 PM
I'm warming up to the pick. All of a sudden, we have pretty good depth at DE. DeVito is a rotational guy now. We'll be able to keep everybody fresh along the D-line.

If Coples plays hard and up to his ability, he could end up being one of the better players from this class. It's a big if but I think it's worth the risk and I'm being surprisingly optimistic right now.

YotoJets007
04-26-2012, 10:37 PM
Coples? umm. I honestly preferred Fletcher Cox but while sitting back Coples could not be a bad pick. Big problem on him is laziness. If he stays lazy free then he could be better than Shaun Ellis.

I extremely am happy that Jets passed on DeCastro and all OLB, especially Ingram, for the 16th pick.

I think Jets wont make any trades with their 2nd round pick since there are plenty options of Branch, Curry, Upshaw, Schwartz, Osemele, Massie, Iloka, Jeffery, Hill and Marvin Jones.

Big problem for Jets is Iloka is the last option for FS job but it seems that Jets have prepared for no top FS.

Another problem for Sparano is top 3 RBs are gone before 2nd round begins. I can't think of anything RB that has good burst. Stephfon Green of PSU?

YotoJets007
04-26-2012, 10:40 PM
I'm warming up to the pick. All of a sudden, we have pretty good depth at DE. DeVito is a rotational guy now. We'll be able to keep everybody fresh along the D-line.

If Coples plays hard and up to his ability, he could end up being one of the better players from this class. It's a big if but I think it's worth the risk and I'm being surprisingly optimistic right now.


Too many run stuffers on the roster. Pass rushing ability DL is always a bonus.

Hurricanes25
04-26-2012, 10:41 PM
Adding an OLB like Curry or Branch to go along with Coples will really improve our pass rush and could actually somewhat mask our lack of a FS.

gpngc
04-26-2012, 10:41 PM
I hope the Jets take Lamar Miller.

YotoJets007
04-26-2012, 10:45 PM
Espn report already said Coples will be our LE. Not surprising.

YotoJets007
04-26-2012, 10:47 PM
Adding an OLB like Curry or Branch to go along with Coples will really improve our pass rush and could actually somewhat mask our lack of a FS.


Agreed.


No Lamar Miller for Jets. He is very slow when it comes to burst that is why scouts think he belongs ZBS offense. Think Arian Foster with speed.

derza222
04-26-2012, 11:02 PM
I hope the Jets take Lamar Miller.

I like Miller. A home run hitter in the backfield would be nice. Thought they had a chance to get him in the third, but with Martin and Wilson going in the first that probably pushes him up. Lots of great options in the second though, should be interesting. Hopefully they can find a good combination of value and early contributor.

AHungryWalrus
04-27-2012, 12:43 AM
I would like to see us try trading up to grab Glenn. Would be fine giving up our 2nd, 5th, and 6th if it could get us up there. Getting him or having Martin fall to us would be nice.

I can't take another year of Hunter.

Matthew Jones
04-27-2012, 02:17 AM
Interesting pick for New York. I like the value but Ingram seemed like a more logical fit in the defense.

thetedginnshow
04-27-2012, 02:20 AM
I feel like there are a lot of very highly rated RT prospects on the board, so unless there's a run, that would be a nice pick. There's quite a few WRs as well... and a couple OLBs... We actually, still, have too many options. But given this much time to think I could see them trading up. Hopefully not though, because we kind of still have all those holes to fill. To me, the position most likely to get a capable starter from on Day 3 would be OT.

derza222
04-27-2012, 09:09 AM
I have a feeling that the Jets looked at a lot of the OLB prospects and felt that these players were getting pushed up draft boards because of the demand for pass rushers but didn't think they were truly first round caliber talents without that demand. I'd guess they're content to sit and wait for a prospect they feel will be a really good OLB in the first round, and until then will try to get pass rush from other spots or take OLB's in later rounds.

We were talking about whether or not they were going to go BPA, and clearly they did this year. Not really a need pick, they just thought Coples was the best player left and took him. More of a gamble than usual because they've gone with pretty safe picks in the past besides Sanchez, but there's certainly upside. If the real interest was in improving the pass rush, I could see why thinking replacing DeVito with Coples would do more than replacing Thomas with Ingram. They must have had real concerns about his short arms too.

There's almost bound to be a really solid player who fills a need on the board in the second round. Three prospects who got a lot of talk as first round picks at tackle (Adams, Martin, and Glenn), plus another who got late steam (Massie) and a fifth who's thought of as an excellent RT prospect (Schwartz). I think all of them besides Martin fit the road grader that would be needed too. I've heard they're going to ignore RT, and I kind of believe it too, but there's lots of great options. They flew out to work out Silatolu right before the draft and got first round buzz too, that's not a need at all but we'll see if they continue to go BPA. Then there's two first round caliber WR's on the board in Hill and Randle along with another one who was a top 5 pick entering the season in Jeffery. The value at safety in the 2nd won't be great, but Iloka seems like a great option for covering tight ends. Jenkins is one of the top two cover corners in the draft and we know Rex loves corners. And then there's a bunch of OLB's too, Upshaw, Curry, and Branch still on the board. Lots of great players left, glad the second round pick was held onto.

YotoJets007
04-27-2012, 09:30 AM
Yea, there are plenty of RG and RT in the draft class but not all of them is at least average at pass protection so I can see Jets grab one of those with better pass protecting skill in the 2nd round.


Point off, the words I had picked up in last few weeks.

* Ryan thinks he may find a blue chip rushing OLB in the 5th round.
* Tannebaun feels that he has plenty of options for "stretch" WR between 2nd and 4th round.


Because of that, I project next 3 rounds excluding 4th.

2nd- trading up to Rams for OT Michael Schwartz. 2nd and Moore for Schwartz.

3rd- WR Marvin Jones or dare to say Danny Coale.

5th- OLB Tim Fugger

Hurricanes25
04-27-2012, 10:00 AM
Interesting pick for New York. I like the value but Ingram seemed like a more logical fit in the defense.

They may have went BPA. I also know that many teams were turned off by Ingram's short arms so that may have been a factor.

YotoJets007
04-27-2012, 10:11 AM
They may have went BPA. I also know that many teams were turned off by Ingram's short arms so that may have been a factor.


Arm length is irrelevant if he is a shoot in rusher. Problem with Ryan's defense and standard base defense is long arm is needed for in line shredder and run stuffing. Ryan does not use exotic or mismatch up rushing from OLB. Wade Phillips does. Maybe the Pagano brothers will do.

Short arm can work in Ryans as pass down specialist but it is a small role. No way for Ryan to invest in one in the 1st. Easy.

TimD
04-27-2012, 10:56 AM
Ive come around on the pick. We were most successful when Shaun Ellis generated a rush from the LE spot, and Coples definitely has the potential to do that. I think Rex can bring out the best in him. Plus our front 7 has a bunch of high motor guys, and I hope they can motivate him.

YotoJets007
04-27-2012, 12:04 PM
My bad. I forget about Randle. A thin group of WR to chase down in the 2nd round.

WR:

Jeffery.
Hill.
Randle.
Darkhorse- Jones, Givins and Coale.


OLB:

Branch.
Curry.
Upshaw.
Darkhorse- whoever.


Swing strongside OL:

Massie.
Osemele.
Allen.
Schwartz.
Darkhorse- whoever.

Hurricanes25
04-27-2012, 12:26 PM
Pretty good list of guys still available, Yoto. I know you're not a fan but I think Lamar Miller is an option too even though going RB in the 2nd seems unlikely.

thetedginnshow
04-27-2012, 12:34 PM
I really think the value here is on the OL. I think that's where our next pick should be. I think there's a large group of WRs that are all about the same (on paper, at least) and we can wait until the 3rd.

Also, I will laugh if we do draft that Fugger guy because one of you has been talking about him for a long time. lol

Hurricanes25
04-27-2012, 12:45 PM
I would love to get Vinny Curry, Lamar Miller or George Iloka but the more I think about it, I think we need to address RT in the 2nd. Osemele I think is the guy I want. Great run blocker and if he doesn't work out at RT, he could move inside when Moore hangs it up.

derza222
04-27-2012, 01:08 PM
Yeah I completely forgot about Osemele, he's somebody I'd be very happy with as well. There's a very small group of guys I'd be okay with Tannenbaum making an aggressive move for, but I'd be happiest with standing pat at 47 and seeing who falls. Large group of players I'd be okay with at 47 and it really depends who falls so it's tough to speculate on who I'd want, think Hill and Glenn would be ideal fits but I expect them both to be long gone.

Anybody else see the rumor that we would have taken Bruce Irvin if he was on the board? Thought that was interesting.

Hurricanes25
04-27-2012, 01:15 PM
Yeah, I saw the rumor too. I'm a big Irvin fan but I'm so happy he was off the board. He's not a 3 down player and taking him in the first would be a huge mistake. I was really hoping maybe he'd fall to our pick in the third.

thetedginnshow
04-27-2012, 01:33 PM
I feel like every time someone who ends up being really good gets drafted before our pick, something comes out about us having wanted to draft him. You can say whatever you want about his lack of versatility, but Irvin was the purest pass rusher in the draft, and that's really the only thing we needed.

BroadwayJoe10
04-27-2012, 03:31 PM
I feel like every time someone who ends up being really good gets drafted before our pick, something comes out about us having wanted to draft him. You can say whatever you want about his lack of versatility, but Irvin was the purest pass rusher in the draft, and that's really the only thing we needed.

My thing about the whole Irvin situation was that even if we assumed other teams didn't want him, if we wanted him badly enough St. Louis was right there for the trade up. I always feel if there's a player you want badly enough you go get him; it's thus my feeling after all the rumors and post-draft talk, we were simply comfortable sitting tight and taking either Irvin, Coples or Decastro.

I wanted a pass rushing OLB as much as the next guy, but Irvin seems to struggle against the run and covering TEs, he would essentially be occupying a similar type of role as Maybin.

Hurricanes25
04-27-2012, 03:39 PM
I wanted a pass rushing OLB as much as the next guy, but Irvin seems to struggle against the run and covering TEs, he would essentially be occupying a similar type of role as Maybin.

Exactly. When you draft a player in the first round, he better be able to play all three downs. Irvin can not. As you said, he struggles against the run and he can't cover. He's a pass rushing specialist. While valuable, I don't think that would be a great value in the first. Second round? Sure. Third round? Definitely.

thetedginnshow
04-27-2012, 03:43 PM
My thing about the whole Irvin situation was that even if we assumed other teams didn't want him, if we wanted him badly enough St. Louis was right there for the trade up. I always feel if there's a player you want badly enough you go get him; it's thus my feeling after all the rumors and post-draft talk, we were simply comfortable sitting tight and taking either Irvin, Coples or Decastro.

I wanted a pass rushing OLB as much as the next guy, but Irvin seems to struggle against the run and covering TEs, he would essentially be occupying a similar type of role as Maybin.

I get what people are saying with the duplicity there, but honestly, if you have enough heat on the QB, who really cares about coverage? We got exposed by TEs and what-not quite a bit last year, but that's also because of how we had to scheme to mask our deficiencies in rushing the QB. Look at what NE just did. Their biggest problem is coverage and they just drafted two guys that could get after the QB.

However, I think we could get what we want with Coples. We still need LBs in general, but this is all in the interest of getting after the QB. That's also why I wouldn't waste an early pick on a Safety because at this point, there are none worth mentioning. It would just be a fill-in to fulfill the need, but you can get a far more effective result by drafting another pass rusher.

Looking at things, though, I would assume our next pick is OL or WR, just by the way the board has fallen. I'm interested in seeing if they draft an OLB at some point in the draft, though, because the only one I see of interest is Curry that's left on the board, but that's just me.

BroadwayJoe10
04-27-2012, 03:50 PM
I get what people are saying with the duplicity there, but honestly, if you have enough heat on the QB, who really cares about coverage? We got exposed by TEs and what-not quite a bit last year, but that's also because of how we had to scheme to mask our deficiencies in rushing the QB. Look at what NE just did. Their biggest problem is coverage and they just drafted two guys that could get after the QB.

However, I think we could get what we want with Coples. We still need LBs in general, but this is all in the interest of getting after the QB. That's also why I wouldn't waste an early pick on a Safety because at this point, there are none worth mentioning. It would just be a fill-in to fulfill the need, but you can get a far more effective result by drafting another pass rusher.

Looking at things, though, I would assume our next pick is OL or WR, just by the way the board has fallen. I'm interested in seeing if they draft an OLB at some point in the draft, though, because the only one I see of interest is Curry that's left on the board, but that's just me.

Oh I definitely agree. I feel that WR and OL would be beneficial to our defense as well, as maybe this year they could keep our defense off the field by stringing some consistent drives together. I also have zero problem going DE in the first and OLB in the 2nd if we like upshaw, branch or curry that much. Than maybe hope Mike Adams falls to the third or something along those lines.

GET LOOSE
04-27-2012, 05:28 PM
I really like the Coples pick. Hes a flat out beast I just hope he stays motivated. Really excited for the 2nd round definitely a few nice choices but i think OL is the best way to go

derza222
04-27-2012, 06:08 PM
Forum Mock (Derza and I)

1.16 Melvin Ingram, OLB, South Carolina
2.47 Harrison Smith, S, Notre Dame
3.77 Brian Quick, WR, Appalachian State
5.154 Andrew Datko OT, Florida State
6.187 Adrian Hamilton, OLB, Prairie View A&M
6.202 Rhett Ellison, TE, USC
6.203 Asa Jackson, CB, Cal Poly
7.232 Darius Fleming, ILB, Notre Dame
7.242 Carson Wiggs, K, Purdue
7.244 Andrew Tiller, OG, Syracuse

I think we're both pretty happy with the results. What are everyone else's thoughts?

Well Smith and Quick went way before we got them. Ingram didn't but it was close. Good values.

Wonder if they move up for anybody today.

josh07039
04-27-2012, 06:41 PM
Not the best pick for need, but I really want the Jets to grab Sanu. He is a really good athlete and a good guy as well. Additionally, he ran some wildcat at Rutgers with some success, so I am just intrigued by the idea of having, Sanchez, Tebow, and Sanu in the game at the same time, even if the jets would never run a crazy play like Id want to see.

GET LOOSE
04-27-2012, 06:52 PM
traded up for hill. i definitely like that just hope we didnt give up too much

derza222
04-27-2012, 06:52 PM
I'm thrilled. Perfect fit. Stretches the field, run blocks, get some chunk plays. Could be a big bust, but I think he's a perfect fit for what the need right now and with long term upside. Great pick.

Hurricanes25
04-27-2012, 06:54 PM
Yeah, I'm excited. Great value there in the 2nd. Like you said Derza, perfect fit. He stretches the field and he's a great blocker.

YotoJets007
04-27-2012, 06:55 PM
wow.. I checked out the contest and none of us had Hill. I had Hill going to Jets in 1st in my 7 round mock but not in contest. Damn it. lol.

Old School
04-27-2012, 07:02 PM
"Jets traded up with the Seahawks to select Georgia Tech WR Stephen Hill with the No. 43 overall pick in the 2012 draft.
Seattle will receive picks Nos. 47, 154, and 232 in return."


Love it !!! Now we take care of RT with the next pick. Great draft so far.

thetedginnshow
04-27-2012, 07:05 PM
I'M SO HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAPPY

Seriously. Like I said before, he was really the only WR that had everything we would want in one. Honestly, he has everything anyone should want in a WR. He's just super raw. I've heard a lot of his interviews though and his character seems off the charts. And he looks like Maclin. Pre-draft the nickname I gave him was The Silencer.

derza222
04-27-2012, 07:09 PM
I mean to be fair, we've got a lot to be cautious about. Two huge boom or bust prospects. But I think they fit what's need at both positions right now and offer additional upside beyond that. Would be awesome if Hill reaches his potential, seems like he has a good work ethic and was a good value.

Next pick in the third, could see moving down there if safeties and tackles are gone. After that nothing until the sixth. I'd love Iloka with the next one, Brandon Taylor would be really good. Doubt Massie slips that far but he'd be good, I think Mike Adams would be worth a shot at that point too.

thetedginnshow
04-27-2012, 07:22 PM
No. Mike Adams is terrible. Don't say his name.

GET LOOSE
04-27-2012, 07:33 PM
I agree I would cry if we took Mike Adams. If Iloka or Massie is still there Id question weather these last two days have been reality or not

YotoJets007
04-27-2012, 07:38 PM
Mike Adams in 3rd? Dunno.

Old School
04-27-2012, 07:44 PM
I mean to be fair, we've got a lot to be cautious about. Two huge boom or bust prospects.


No doubt, Derza, I hear'ya. Coples and Hill's potential is a lot to get excited about though. Two huge needs, and neither pick has us saying "WTF did the Jets do".

If we end up with a Massie, Osemele, or Schwartz pick next, I won't even care what the Jets do with the rest of their picks !!!

YotoJets007
04-27-2012, 07:49 PM
now, you can say his name. lol.

GET LOOSE
04-27-2012, 07:49 PM
If we end up with a Massie, Osemele, or Schwartz pick next, I won't even care what the Jets do with the rest of their picks !!!

The browns took Schwartz earlier :( but Massie or Osemele would hae me ecstatic.

derza222
04-27-2012, 07:54 PM
No doubt, Derza, I hear'ya. Coples and Hill's potential is a lot to get excited about though. Two huge needs, and neither pick has us saying "WTF did the Jets do".

If we end up with a Massie, Osemele, or Schwartz pick next, I won't even care what the Jets do with the rest of their picks !!!

Schwartz is gone but I forgot about Osemele. He or Massie would be awesome too, as would Iloka.

GET LOOSE
04-27-2012, 08:05 PM
Dammit Curry and Osemele just went back to back! That hurt

derza222
04-27-2012, 08:13 PM
Couldn't really expect either of those guys to fall that far. Just 14 more picks away, it'll be interesting to see who falls. Based on who's around I'm expecting RT or S, maybe RB or G. Not sure who they'd go for at OLB so that'd surprise me.

derza222
04-27-2012, 09:01 PM
Bye bye Bart Scott?

YotoJets007
04-27-2012, 09:02 PM
Davis is a nice pick but I thought Jets would go after someone from big school for that spot. Nigel Bradham.

YotoJets007
04-27-2012, 09:02 PM
Bye bye Bart Scott?


I don't think so but you never know.

YotoJets007
04-27-2012, 09:03 PM
passed on Massie and Iloka... wow.

thetedginnshow
04-27-2012, 09:04 PM
I'm guessing he's going to play ILB? But I have no idea. I like the scouting report on him though. I will have to do some investigative work...

I will say, however, that I love the way they're approaching the draft. They really meant it when they said they would do BPA. Glad we haven't taken a Safety.

derza222
04-27-2012, 09:05 PM
I would've liked to see Massie or Iloka there. Either could've stepped in right away and started in all likelihood, guess they don't want to admit the Ducasse mistake/didn't really like either player. Would've loved Iloka to try to match up with TE's too.

YotoJets007
04-27-2012, 09:10 PM
It seems Jets will stick with UDFA for S jobs.

BroadwayJoe10
04-27-2012, 09:12 PM
I would've liked to see Massie or Iloka there. Either could've stepped in right away and started in all likelihood, guess they don't want to admit the Ducasse mistake/didn't really like either player. Would've loved Iloka to try to match up with TE's too.

Texans, Skins and Chiefs all passed on Massie, I've got a feeling there's something we don't know about that's making him drop. It's interesting, because I was for sure Massie or Lewis would have been the choice.

derza222
04-27-2012, 09:18 PM
Texans, Skins and Chiefs all passed on Massie, I've got a feeling there's something we don't know about that's making him drop. It's interesting, because I was for sure Massie or Lewis would have been the choice.

Yeah that's likely because he's dropping like a lead balloon, at the time though it seemed like it would've been a great pick. And you never know how it works out.

It'll be interesting to see how the 5 picks tomorrow get used. Could see OLB, OL depth, RB, CB, S, and specialist getting a look. Or anything else really, but I think at least a few of those should get a look.

thetedginnshow
04-27-2012, 09:19 PM
Oh man. Did you guys see those Davis highlights they just showed? He looks phenomenal.

Old School
04-27-2012, 09:20 PM
My bad on missing the Schwartz pick, I blame the Yuengling! Surprised they passed on Massie, but the Davis pick looks like a good one. Not sure that he'll replace Scott this season, but he will be groomed to do so in the near future. Notes have him as being quick, great inside player, good against the run, but a little lost when dropping back into coverage. Mocks had him anywhere from the 2nd round to the 7th. Jets must have liked what they saw.

As for Massie, he keeps falling. Too bad we don't have any ammo to move up at this point.

thetedginnshow
04-27-2012, 09:46 PM
Courtesy of our Pats friends.

Demario Davis, LB, Arkansas State

Height: 6’2″
Weight: 235
40 Time: 4.53
Grade: 6.9 (Grading Scale)

Arms: 32″ Hands: 9″

Vertical: 38.5″ Broad: 10’4″ 3 Cone: 7.19 Short Shuttle: 4.28 Bench: 32

Film Room Notes: Senior Bowl

Strengths: Demario Davis is a physical specimen – When watching him on film two words come to mind: explosive and powerful – He is one of the fastest linebackers in this draft class (4.53) and is THE strongest, producing 32 reps on the bench press – Davis can truly play a sideline to sideline type game – Tracks down the ball carrier all over the field, has great closing speed – When he gets to the ball he finishes with power – Has the ability to play any linebacker position, from 4-3 ILB, to OLB and could also be utilized as an edge rusher in a 3-4 – One of the most powerful tacklers in the draft, punishes the ball carrier with each tackle, wraps up and drives into the ground – Probably the most explosive first step of any LB, can get to top speed quickly – Keeps his pad level low, showcasing natural bend in his hips and knees – Takes on blockers at point of attack, can shed with his hands or with natural power – Fluid athlete, can move laterally, change direction easily and turn and run – Played in the 4-2-5, allowed to run free and make plays – Plays with an intensity and passion on each play, I think he could be at his best when he’s blitzing, just a relentless player – Plays instinctive, once he sees the play develop, it’s like he’s shot out of a cannon – His athletic ability allows him to be pretty solid in coverage, can run with backs out of the backfield and get a chip on the TE at LOS – Can also cover a WR out of the slot – Davis is one of the hardest workers in the draft and a great kid – Contributed on all special teams throughout his career – Has already graduated college and was on the academic honor roll throughout his time at Arkansas State.

Weaknesses: One of the biggest questions with Davis is where he is going to play at the next level – He was given a lot of freedom to make plays, so he will be reigned in a little bit in the pros – Technique can be improved, but has gotten better – Man coverage ability can always improve, as well as instincts while in zone coverage – Small school label, so not as well known as other players

Overall, Davis is one of the most explosive and well rounded defensive players in this year’s draft. He comes from a smaller school, where not many people saw him play. Davis is always around the ball and plays with such power and intensity that there is no doubt in my mind he will make in in the NFL. He will be a fit with just about every team in the league regardless of the type of defense they run. Look for Davis to come off the board in round three and looking back on it in five years that could be the steal of the draft.

http://www.nepatriotsdraft.com/2012/04/demario-davis-scouting-report.html

What I see personally is that he's fairly raw in technique, and I also heard that he's 23 so he's a bit older. However, he's probably the fastest linebacker I've seen of any of the prospects. He, like our other two picks, seem like the perfect balls of clay for our coaches to mold.

derza222
04-27-2012, 09:52 PM
After watching him he certainly looks like he's at his best moving forward which fits the attacking style of defense. Very fast, looked like he can get blocked and washed out a bit against the run though. Didn't get to see too much of him in coverage.

He'll certainly play specials right off the bat, and he's got to be the replacement for Bart Scott probably starting next year. This draft was certainly about adding speed on both sides of the ball. Seems like an interesting option to cover RB's out of the backfield, FWIW.

My main question for now in terms of fit is, the plan is ultimately for him to play inside next to Harris. Right now Scott is kind of the linebacker who blows up blocks and allows Harris to make plays. I don't see Davis doing that, and I don't see the point of having Harris do it either although I think he certainly could. Just hopeful that the DL can keep blocks off those guys?

thetedginnshow
04-27-2012, 10:09 PM
insE7hE_Czs

Seems like a vocal team leader, too. We need one of those on defense!

YotoJets007
04-27-2012, 10:48 PM
For now, Davis will be there for coverage asset and blitz. He wont be replacing Scott as ILB this instant. In near future, Harris replaces Scott and Davis replaces Harris for base 3-4 defense.


It is amazing how S Iloka, WR Jones and OT Massie remain available after 3rd round. Do we have a regret for acquiring Tebow? lol.

thetedginnshow
04-27-2012, 11:35 PM
So since only one of our remaining picks isn't protected, I'm pretty sure we'll be using all 5 this time around. As long as they're decent, that could mean some pretty good depth. I would like at least two OL drafted. Any specific players you guys want? Kind of hard to project since we have to wait so long...

derza222
04-28-2012, 09:10 AM
I definitely wish that they still had a 4th round pick, but oh well. I'm with you on acquiring some OL help TTGS, although I'm not sure they will. Seems like they really like Howard the tackle and Schlauderaff at guard. Plus Ducasse is on the roster, so I'd like to see a tackle drafted but not sure they will. A swing RT/G potential guy and somebody who can play center would be nice. They just signed O'Dowd who came out of USC recently but pretty sure he's got serious injury issues. So two OL's would be good, not sure they'll do it but I'd definitely be down.

I'd really like to see a fast corner, a developmental OLB prospect, and a TE who can block get looks too. Obviously a safety would be good as well. Another hope is that they don't burn a pick on a friends and family guy this year. If they have to pass on anything I guess OLB would be best since depth is at least good there, but corner, TE, and safety are kind of weak.

YotoJets007
04-28-2012, 10:54 AM
Ryan liked Mauga, Berning, Dixon and Pitouita but Jets drafted Wilkerson, Coples and Davis that high.


5 unmade picks should be:

Omar Bolden

Tim Fugger, please. :helmet:

fast CB that can play nickel/dime coverage.

Lucas Nix or similar one.

Jeff Adams or better.


Another options for extra juicy.

RS Chris Rainey.
WR Danny Coale.
OLB Ronnell Lewis.

YotoJets007
04-28-2012, 11:55 AM
Bolden was gone few spots earlier. Massie was taken in 4 spots after Jets' former 4th round pick. darn.

derza222
04-28-2012, 12:43 PM
If only for the name and the fact that you keep tossing him out Yoto, I really hope we draft Fugger now.

Lots of guys coming off the board which is expected. I'm expecting small school guys and our RB coach's son.

GET LOOSE
04-28-2012, 01:04 PM
4th round is over and iloka is still on the board. Uggh wish we had a 5th rounder

derza222
04-28-2012, 02:31 PM
Iloka just went to the Bengals, who are having an awesome draft. Right now per rumors the only guy left of the Jets' top 5 safeties is Trenton Robinson. From what I've seen of him he doesn't translate well to the NFL at all, so I'd be kind of disappointed by that. Other big school guys still on the board are Markelle Martin and Antonio Allen.

Hurricanes25
04-28-2012, 02:33 PM
If we go S, I want Martin or Allen. Or even the guy from 'Cuse.

Some interesting lineman still left are James Brown and Brandon Washington.

Plenty of small school corners left too.

derza222
04-28-2012, 02:36 PM
Asa Jackson just went. Pretty much everybody but Datko and Ingram went before we took them in the forum mock.

Cam Johnson's a really interesting pass rusher who's still on the board.

The Great Jonathan Vilma
04-28-2012, 02:51 PM
We definitely need OL depth. Who are the top guys remaining on the board? What is the though on Brandon Washington? He's played a wide range of spots on the line and has some talent, although somewhat disappointed and was inconsistent.

A developmental pass rusher and coverage safety also need to factor into these next picks. I agree that Martin or Allen would be worth a look.

Hurricanes25
04-28-2012, 02:52 PM
We definitely need OL depth. Who are the top guys remaining on the board? What is the though on Brandon Washington? He's played a wide range of spots on the line and has some talent, although somewhat disappointed and was inconsistent.

A developmental pass rusher and coverage safety also need to factor into these next picks. I agree that Martin or Allen would be worth a look.

Washington was inconsistent at LT. He's a starting caliber OG and can maybe play RT.

The Great Jonathan Vilma
04-28-2012, 03:10 PM
Washington was inconsistent at LT. He's a starting caliber OG and can maybe play RT.

That's what I thought. From a team needs perspective in the back half of the draft, i'm not sure if it is a bad thing to get a guy who can play RT or G. I wouldn't be disappointed if we drafted him.

derza222
04-28-2012, 03:15 PM
Definitely agree. Additionally from a team needs perspective I would't mind picking up somebody who's played center and can also swing to guard if necessary. Things really hit the fan when Mangold got hurt last year, O'Dowd's okay but has injury concerns, would nice to have an insurance policy.

The Great Jonathan Vilma
04-28-2012, 03:25 PM
An improved backup C is a necessity. I agree we were a complete mess when Mangold went down. Can Turner play C? If he's healthy does that help us there? OVerall i think we need guys who can be serviceable at a few spots along the line.

On the close! Fingers crossed!

derza222
04-28-2012, 03:29 PM
Rob Turner? Pretty sure he's gone, Rams I think. Definitely agree with the point about guys who can play multiple spots on the line, which is why if they go with a C I hope it's a guy who can play guard too.

The pick is in...name is taking awhile to come up. I'm okay with taking Bush if they like him as a safety. Certainly potentially could be an upgrade over Eric Smith. Interesting over Martin and Allen.

Hurricanes25
04-28-2012, 03:31 PM
I don't get taking Bush over Matin and Allen. Bush seems like a special teamer to me. I don't even think Scott has him ranked.

GET LOOSE
04-28-2012, 03:32 PM
So does anyone know about Josh bush?

Hurricanes25
04-28-2012, 03:34 PM
Bush did intercept 6 passes last year...

The Great Jonathan Vilma
04-28-2012, 03:34 PM
Well apparently i missed the Turner item. That moves up O-Line needs signficantly.

Bush is a shocker to me. I don't know anything about him.

thetedginnshow
04-28-2012, 03:36 PM
Strange that we never brought this guy up before. He was an AP All-American. Haha. From the sounds of things, he seems more oriented to becoming that centerfield type of FS. Apparently he has CB traits, too. I like the pick!

Hurricanes25
04-28-2012, 03:39 PM
I'm gonna try to find some highlights later. The stats are pretty impressive (6 int's in 2011). A few sites I've looked on have him ranked very low or don't have him ranked at all.

derza222
04-28-2012, 03:41 PM
Yeah I think he supposedly played some CB in the past. Six picks last year is nice, I've watched very little Wake Forest and there's nothing on youtube. I think this pick makes it clear that they're looking for a safety who they trust in coverage. Antonio Allen certainly wasn't going to be that guy, Martin's more of a zone guy, so they went with Bush. Given I think a cover safety and a centerfield time is more what they need, I'm okay with it.

Also for all of the talk of him having average measurables for a safety, he's not the biggest guy but he ran 4.51. That's fine to me at least. Certainly could've gotten better value, but I think he's got to be an interesting fit for the role they'll have him playing.

The Great Jonathan Vilma
04-28-2012, 03:43 PM
3rd team AP All-American. FS traits to focus on coverage. I won't pretend I know about him, but i'm okay with the pick. Safety was a need, with a focus on coverage. Let's see how it plays out.

One of the next two has to be oline. Cam Johnson the other? Or who is the best fit for our OLB rush spot?

Old School
04-28-2012, 03:45 PM
Found this on CBSsports about Bush:

"A three-year starter, Josh Bush was a two-star CB recruit out of high school, choosing Wake Forest over James Madison, Appalachian State and East Carolina. After redshirting in 2007, he saw limited time as a back-up DB in 2008 as a redshirt freshman, recording 17 tackles. Bush moved primarily to free safety in 2009 as a sophomore and started 6 games, finishing with 25 tackles and 1 INT. He played both cornerback and free safety in 2010 as a junior with 8 starts, recording 33 tackles. Bush had his best season in 2011 as a senior free safety, finishing with 59 tkls, 2.0 tackles for loss, 5 pass break-ups and a team-best 6 interceptions, earning First Team All-ACC honors. Bush wasn't a top recruit, but fought his way onto the field and put in his time on special teams, culminating with a First Team All-Conference senior season in 2011. He is tough, but needs to show he can stay healthy and do a better job finishing tackles once he gets his hands on the ballcarrier. Bush is a good (not great) athlete and shows the awareness and range to be effective in the second half of the field with experience at both cornerback and free safety. He doesn't look like much but can be a later round free safety pick with his heady, competitive skill-set."


"Strengths: Flexible athlete with good foot quickness and rangy speed to cover a lot of ground. Shows good awareness to watch the eyes of the quarterback, track the ball in the air and go get it. Does a nice job fighting for positioning in coverage, using his body to box-out the receiver. Flashes a tough, competitive drive and gets the most out of his ability. Has versatile experience with experience at both free safety and cornerback - 27 career starts in the secondary. Had a productive senior season, finishing second in the ACC in interceptions with six - totaled 115 return yards on interceptions, averaging almost 20 yards per return. Weaknesses: Bush has only average size and strength, lacking ideal muscle tone throughout his frame. Struggles on an island and doesn't have the recovery speed to hold up in man coverage. Has choppy footwork and doesn't look natural in his transition, opening his hips too early in coverage. Played mostly in the second half of the field with little experience blitzing or in press. Needs to do a better job breaking down in space and tackling through the ballcarrier in order to finish. Has some questionable durability and was often banged up over his career (hamstring and shoulder issues). -- Dane Brugler"

derza222
04-28-2012, 03:48 PM
I think Cam Johnson would be a good fit for OLB. Wouldn't be surprised if they take a small school guy, they gave Josue Ortiz, Ryan Davis, and Delano Johnson looks.

Not sure who the best fit on the OL would be but they've given some guys who played tackle in college and project to guard in the pros looks.

Hurricanes25
04-28-2012, 03:52 PM
From thejetsblog.com

S Josh Bush (Wake Forest University) 5-11, 205, 4.51 40yd dash
Projection: 6-7 Description: Bush met with the Jets on Wednesday, April 11th. Shortly after the visit Bush told me, “I had a great time…great staff and great people working with the Jets!” Bush is an opportunistic defensive back with a nice feel for coverage. He picks up assignments, showcases an ability to get outside the numbers, and effectively tracks the ball in the air. Bush is very good at reading quarterbacks’ eyes, and has very solid instincts on the football field. He has good hands and is known for his ability to shut down the opposing teams’ slot receiver. Bush chases the action hard and works to defend the run. However, he does have some flaws. Bush needs to improve his backpedal. Furthermore, he overpursues the action on occasion. Bush possesses average size/speed numbers. Bush needs to do a better job breaking down in space and tackling through the ballcarrier in order to finish. Durability is unfortunately a big question. Bush was often banged up over his career (hamstring and shoulder issues). Regardless, if healthy, Bush has the chance to be an asset as a dime back/special teams player at the next level.

derza222
04-28-2012, 04:01 PM
Will be interested to hear what they plan on him doing at the post-draft press conference. Honestly I wouldn't be entirely disappointed with taking Allen with one of the 4 comp picks. Obviously there are other needs, but I don't see Landry playing past this season with the Jets anyway, and frankly every game of this season either. Would be okay with having the better of Bush and Allen start alongside Landry this year and grooming the other to start next year.

I've heard they like Tracy Wilson too, but I'm glad they brought in somebody else at that spot. Hopefully Wilson, Bush, and Smith all compete for the starting spot across from Landry, and hopefully Wilson or Bush wins it.

derza222
04-28-2012, 04:11 PM
I don't like the Ganaway pick that much. Nice feet, but there's 3 backs on the roster they drafted and he doesn't do that much on third down. Hopefully I'm wrong, I think there's certainly an opening to get carries and hopefully he takes it because I'd like a legit back. Certainly does add some physicality and power though.

thetedginnshow
04-28-2012, 04:14 PM
Still surprised no one is taking Polk, but I like Ganaway. It's clear we need some power, among other things, from the runningback position, and he can hopefully deliver.

Funny we took two Baylor guys in a row. Maybe we got the better Griffin!

Hurricanes25
04-28-2012, 04:15 PM
Meh on the Ganaway selection. I prefer him over Bilal Powell though. At the very least, I think he's a good short yardage back.

I know nothing about the other Robert Griffin.