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SINCE1978
05-05-2011, 08:03 AM
2012 looking ahead at the landscape of talent in college football & matching that up with our beloved Detroit Lions needs, it looks pretty solid.

Needs (not really in order): LT, CB, LB G/C, S

My 1a strategy for Detroit would LT. This is finally the year to silence all the Backus haters and get the LT they have coveted. I was a fan of Indys strategy this draft of going back to back offensive lineman in the first 2 rounds. Jax & NY Jets have also been successful at building in the trenches with this strategy in recent drafts. Inevitably the end is near for Lions steadfast LT Backus & C Railoa. It was an up & down decade for them, but Stafford will be in need of some youth to be served up front. Some players I like early: Kalil USC, Martin Stanford, Reiff Iowa (Brewster C OSU in 2nd?)

My 1b option would be CB. OK so I have to admit, I have peaked at some 2012 mocks already. (I know, its a sickness?!) :o) But looking at the positional depth, it looks to me that there could be as many as 6 CBs taken in the top 20! Who knows where Detroit picks we are 1 injury away to Stafford from eyeing Matt Barkley, right? Assuming Stafford has shaken his injury bug though, lets look to FINALLY draft a CB early in the draft with what several "experts" have as a popular slot for Detroit, being pick #20. Some players I like early: Kirkpatrick Bama, Dennard Nebraska, Harris Oregon

My 3rd option would be LB. Bottom line they need a tackler beside Levy. Follett, Palmer, Carpenter, Hogue can be solid back-up/roll players but if they added a high impact guy like any of the 3 I listed it would instantly improve that D. Some players I like early: Burflict ASU, Upshaw Bama, & Teo ND

Your thoughts??

Fred Savage
05-05-2011, 09:36 AM
I will let you know after the combine. All joking aside, I really like the corner from Oregon, Harris. He is a playmaker.

Silver & Blue
05-05-2011, 01:10 PM
I think we should keep an eye on Jayron Hosley who is a corner from VT. He had 9 ints his sophomore season. I can only imagine how many he would get when he has the Lions d-line putting pressure on the QB. But my first choice would probably be an o-lineman since our line isn't getting any younger and I would like to have a replacement in place for Jeff Backus just in case if his performance suddenly drops off.

WMD
05-05-2011, 03:09 PM
I will let you know after the combine. All joking aside, I really like the corner from Oregon, Harris. He is a playmaker.
Cliff Harris is interesting, but he's really reallllllllly small. Oregon's site lists him at 165 pounds. That's crazy.

But he's fast and it looks like he has a crazy vertical (24 seconds in this video)

1zx5a6DKnoo

Scotty D
05-05-2011, 10:25 PM
The Lions need to draft Vontaze Burfict. Just looking at the early names that are popping up I think the OT and LB class is a lot stronger than 2011. Teo would be a nice consolation prize if they can't get Burfict. I also like the guard out of Stanford - Decastro.

IwannatalktoSampson
05-06-2011, 08:29 AM
Welp since we dont draft needs we'll probably end up drafting a really talented Quarterback or a Cant Miss WR prospect.

WMD
05-06-2011, 04:35 PM
Welp since we dont draft needs we'll probably end up drafting a really talented Quarterback or a Cant Miss WR prospect.
Yes. I'm sure that will happen.

Silver & Blue
05-06-2011, 05:44 PM
The Lions need to draft Vontaze Burfict. Just looking at the early names that are popping up I think the OT and LB class is a lot stronger than 2011. Teo would be a nice consolation prize if they can't get Burfict. I also like the guard out of Stanford - Decastro.

If we did draft Burfict (which I would love btw) no team in their right mind would want to run through the middle, unless they want their RB to be torn to pieces by Suh, Fairley, and Burfict.

Iamcanadian
05-07-2011, 08:33 AM
I think it is a reasonable expectation that we may be drafting in the 20's, certainly no earlier than the late teens. So we can forget about the top guys in the draft, those days are over, at least I hope so.
We aren't going to get a top guy and need to keep it realistic.

As a side note, I saw on NFLN today, a review of our top 3 picks and it wasn't pretty.
We are all aware of the character issues about Fairley but it turns out that Young and Leshoure had character concerns as well. Young apparently has some Terrell Owens in him and Leshoure flunked a drug test while at Illinois, only once out of many mind you, as they watched him closely after the 1st failure.

Prowler
05-07-2011, 10:32 PM
CB all the way next year. There should be 3-5 legit 1st round guys. We should be able to nab one. I like a couple of the guards too, but I don't want to blow a 1st rounder on a guard unless he changes the game in some substantial way. I wouldn't mind trading up to the top of the 2nd to grab Brewster from Ohio State to man our pivot. Well, if he lasts that long.

If I had to map out what I wanted vs depth of the projected draft...1st round is still BPA(except WR, RB, QB, or DT), then 2 of the next 3 picks have to be offensive line. This is a deep oline class across the board and we need to take advantage.

noondog
05-08-2011, 04:34 AM
Burfict would be the shiznit.

Iamcanadian
05-09-2011, 11:17 AM
No use even talking about what we should do in next year's draft till FA is finished. Obviously, our priorities will significantly change if say, we sign 2 decent CB's, etc.

Maybe This Year Mayhew
05-09-2011, 01:46 PM
No use even talking about what we should do in next year's draft till FA is finished. Obviously, our priorities will significantly change if say, we sign 2 decent CB's, etc.

Yeah not just this years FA either. 2012 FA will probably be before the 2012draft. So 2 FAs to fill 2 OLBs(1 OLB if a miracle by Palmer/Carpenter),CB1(which I would rather draft or trade for a good one),possibly CB2(depending on Houston play and contract/Smith/Berrys play in 2011), future Left Tackle(this is Backus last stand but he may move to Right) and future Center/RG/RT(maybe not RG/RT if Peterman returns to 2009 form and Gosders gets healthy from a microfracture).

Right now its wide open BPA except for TE/DT/WR. I hope QB is on that list but Stafford has to show he can take a hit in year 3. If he can't the Lions FO have a really tough decision which I hope we never have to make.

cotts1
06-24-2011, 12:34 AM
For sure CB looks like the position to address next year. So many good prospects. Dre Kirkpatrick, Jayron Hosley, Cliff Harris, Stephon Gilmore, Chase Minnifield, and Janoris Jenkins. Hopefully we can get one of them at pick 32. :P

detroit4life
06-24-2011, 11:31 AM
I wouldnt be opposed to going oline back to back this year.

There is still FA to go thru (if we ever get a cba done) and that could change needs as well but i'd say the obvious 3 needs are oline, cb, LB

detroit4life
10-11-2011, 11:22 AM
After watching 4 games I think is pretty obvious our needs: Oline and Secondary.

Assuming we are able to bring back Wright and Tulloch I think we need to address the Oline big time. Our offense has the makings to be downright dominant. Not that it isn't right now, but there's still a way for teams to beat us and thats with pressure. I would love to see Mayhew fix these holes now and let this offense reach its full potential.

Silver & Blue
10-11-2011, 12:54 PM
After watching 4 games I think is pretty obvious our needs: Oline and Secondary.

Assuming we are able to bring back Wright and Tulloch I think we need to address the Oline big time. Our offense has the makings to be downright dominant. Not that it isn't right now, but there's still a way for teams to beat us and thats with pressure. I would love to see Mayhew fix these holes now and let this offense reach its full potential.

I agree, we will probably be picking towards the end of the first round so we could get someone like David DeCastro from Stanford and he could possibly replace Peterman. Its hard to say what OT we should draft since most of the ones who are 1st round worthy would have been already picked up. Luckily this year the CB position is LOADED in this draft. Personally I would like to take Cliff Harris, Jayron Hosley, or possibly Janoris Jenkins assuming he has cleaned up his act. The only other position I would think about drafting at would be MLB, but that is ONLY if Vontaze Burfict falls to us, which is very unlikely.

Prowler
10-30-2011, 06:28 AM
2 game losing streak, so its time for some Draft talk! Our biggest need is obviously offensive line. But I figured I'd borrow from thenetrat.com and put a basic roster and contract status up here for reference. The site is missing Keiland Williams, so the info may be a few months behind the times.

Guys under contract for 2012
Name-year contract ends
QB
Stafford-2014
Hill-2013

HB
Best-2014
LeShoure-2014
Williams-2012? It wasn't on site, but we picked him up off waivers.

WR
Megatron-2012
Burleson-2014
Young-2014

TE
Pettigrew-2013
Scheffler-2013
Heller-2012

Oline
Sims-2014
Raiola-2013
Peterman-2013
Cherilus-2012
Fox-2012
Gandy-2012
Culbreath-2014

Dline
Suh-2014
Williams-2012
Fairly-2014
KVB-2013
Young-2012
Jackson-2012

Lber
Durant-2012
Hogue-2014

DB
Delmas-2012
Spievey-2012
Wendling-2013
Houston-2012
Berry-2012
Smith-2012

K/P/LS
Hanson-2012
Donahue-2013

Key Losses-2011 Contract Salary Hit
Rashied Davis-1.18M
Maurice Stovall-685k
Jeff Backus-6.723M
Cliff Avril-2.611M
Sammie Hill-645k
Stephen Tulloch-3.25M
DeAndre Levy-729k
Bobby Carpenter-525K
Ashlee Palmer-525K
Vincent Fuller-??? waiver pickup
Eric Wright-3.5M
Don Mulbach-LS 915K

People to Resign
I'm on the fence with Tulloch and Wright. I don't know about resigning 4 lbers, but Carpenter and Palmer are cheap and if we focus on oline and secondary, then we can't afford to lose much here. Backus can be back for a discount, but we'd have to see how much.

Biggest Needs-LT, CB, C, G

Mock Draft
1) Alfonzo Dennard CB Nebraska
2) Mike Adams OT Ohio State
3) Ben Jones C Georgia

Claiborne and Kirkpatrick push Dennard down to us. Mike Adams has the tools, but had suspensions and injuries at Ohio State. Ben Jones is too good of value to pass on in the 3rd. 6-3 315lbs and looks good against SEC dlinemen? Good deal. One thing to look out for is the potential 2013 class of OTs. There are probably 5-8 quality tackles in the next draft. If Adams is a bust then he can slide over the the right side or still provide cheap depth and we'll grab another quality guy next year. Lots of good Sophomores out there at tackle in the SEC.

Prowler
10-30-2011, 10:51 AM
I guess that I should add my OT rankings to clear up why this site has Mike Adams in 1st round vs me personally having him in the late 2nd.

1a. Kalil
1b. Martin
3. Reiff
4. Sanders
5. Adcock

Mike Adams- Injuries, Suspensions, inconsistent play of Ohio State's oline will raise too many questions for 1st Round. Throw in some talented guards, maybe Fluker declaring, or some surprises and he's late 2nd/3rd.

SINCE1978
11-16-2011, 07:50 PM
Mock Draft
1) Alfonzo Dennard CB Nebraska
2) Mike Adams OT Ohio State
3) Ben Jones C Georgia

Claiborne and Kirkpatrick push Dennard down to us. Mike Adams has the tools, but had suspensions and injuries at Ohio State. Ben Jones is too good of value to pass on in the 3rd. 6-3 315lbs and looks good against SEC dlinemen? Good deal. One thing to look out for is the potential 2013 class of OTs. There are probably 5-8 quality tackles in the next draft. If Adams is a bust then he can slide over the the right side or still provide cheap depth and we'll grab another quality guy next year. Lots of good Sophomores out there at tackle in the SEC.

Prowler I really like the way you think! Alfonzo Dennard & Ben Jones are 2 players I have had my eye on all season for Detroit. I think Adams is going to get a flyer by someone in the late 1st/early 2nd (imo) ... so "if" he was there in the mid to late 2nd for Detroit's pick that would be okay by me.

Prowler
11-17-2011, 06:16 AM
I've been hoping that Tampa Bay gets off their serious love crush for Dennard. The good news is that I've seen Stephon Gilmore and Travis Lewis drop to third round, so there is some serious depth at corner and linebacker this year. Throw in Datko, Adcock, Potter, and Wagner in 3rd round and there's decent oline depth as well. I'm actually cool with BPA this year too, provided its not QB or DT. Burfict, Konz, DeCastro, Glenn, Zach Brown, Jenkins, Minnifield, Te'o, Hightower, Melvin Ingram, Mike Adams, Kevin Reddick, Brewster, Zebrie Sanders, Mark Barron, Cam Johnson, etc. There are so many names in the 1st-2nd rounds that I prefer trading down in most instances.

Prowler
11-17-2011, 06:38 AM
Another way of predicting our 1st round pick may be determining who is most likely to fall to us. We have some serious draft talent mojo working for us right now. Fairley, Suh, and Stafford were all #1 prospects on draft boards at the end or at some point in the draft process. We can call this the Mayhew effect. Top talent finds a way to be on our team in the first round. I'm trying to think of other players who would qualify and might drop to us. Michael Floyd? Trent Richardson? Burfict? Janoris Jenkins? Alshon Jeffery? Burfict and Jenkins were never really at the top of the board, but can make a positional claim. Maybe Jonathan Martin takes an Oher tumble? Will fate tempt Mayhew twice?

Silver & Blue
11-17-2011, 08:17 AM
Another way of predicting our 1st round pick may be determining who is most likely to fall to us. We have some serious draft talent mojo working for us right now. Fairley, Suh, and Stafford were all #1 prospects on draft boards at the end or at some point in the draft process. We can call this the Mayhew effect. Top talent finds a way to be on our team in the first round. I'm trying to think of other players who would qualify and might drop to us. Michael Floyd? Trent Richardson? Burfict? Janoris Jenkins? Alshon Jeffery? Burfict and Jenkins were never really at the top of the board, but can make a positional claim. Maybe Jonathan Martin takes an Oher tumble? Will fate tempt Mayhew twice?

I have a feeling that Burfict could possibly drop to us since teams might be afraid of picking him due to his overly aggressive attitude which can cause him to commit stupid penalties sometimes. He would be the only guy outside of a O-lineman or CB that I would pick.

Iamcanadian
12-14-2011, 03:31 PM
I think Adams has moved way past where we will draft and only a RT type, Zebrie Sanders, Florida St or Levy Adcock, Oklahoma St. will be there when we pick. Dennard might well be in our range but I'm not so sure CB is that great of a need. Kevin Reddick is a sound LB who can play all 3 downs. Dwight Jones, WR for North Carolina might open things up for Johnson and make our passing threat that much more dangerous. Finally, Lamar Miller, LaMichael James or Chris Polk all RB's might give us a running attack that can stay healthy for a season.
As you can all see, the big names are gone from the discussion and we must choose between lessor known talent. A new experience for us all that comes from winning.

Prowler
12-14-2011, 03:43 PM
I agree about the tackles being out of reach. I'm starting to think that Mercilus from Illinois might be a good value play. I can't believe that a player with his production 52 tackles, 19.5 for loss, 14.5 sacks, 9 forced fumbles at 6'4" 265 would be there at our pick. He should rise during the combine, but for now he's got my vote.

Prowler
12-14-2011, 08:18 PM
Then again, who am I kidding? Its going to be cornerback all the way.

Scotty D
12-14-2011, 11:53 PM
Then again, who am I kidding? Its going to be cornerback all the way.

I've learned to come to terms with Mayhew not drafting for need. I don't always agree with it though.

WMD
12-14-2011, 11:59 PM
I think OL should get top priority. LT, G, C.. we need that most. We should do what it takes for DeCastro.

Prowler
12-15-2011, 07:03 AM
I think Kalil is the 2nd pick if he declares. If he doesn't...then Martin probably gets pushed up into top 5. Reiff shouldn't get past Buffalo. I can see almost every team between us and that point potentially taking DeCastro. So, the only question is do we take Zebrie Sanders (if he's still there), a Barrett Jones or a BPA approach.

I'd say BPA left at our spot would be these guys:

Mark Barron S
David Wilson RB
Vontaze Burfict LB
Alshon Jeffery WR
Zach Brown LB
Whitney Mercilus DE
Peter Konz C
Alfonzo Dennard CB
Janoris Jenkins CB depending on how far character drives him down
Chase Minnifield CB but I haven't seen anything from his games yet

Iamcanadian
12-16-2011, 01:56 PM
[QUOTE=Prowler;2789622]I think Kalil is the 2nd pick if he declares. If he doesn't...then Martin probably gets pushed up into top 5. Reiff shouldn't get past Buffalo. I can see almost every team between us and that point potentially taking DeCastro. So, the only question is do we take Zebrie Sanders (if he's still there), a Barrett Jones or a BPA approach.

I'd say BPA left at our spot would be these guys:

Mark Barron S - We could easily be drafting in the high 20's, likely gone
David Wilson RB - will never reach us IMO
Vontaze Burfict LB - will never reach us
Alshon Jeffery WR - 2nd rounder IMO and is so slow, he wouldn't be effective in our offense.
Zach Brown LB - doubt he reaches us
Whitney Mercilus DE -the combine will decide his fate
Peter Konz C - don't think he is declaring.
Alfonzo Dennard CB - might have a reasonable shot
Janoris Jenkins CB depending on how far character drives him down - Ditto
Chase Minnifield CB but I haven't seen anything from his games yet - Ditto

It will be a long day on draft day, to see who falls to us.

Xiomera
12-21-2011, 02:40 PM
Todd McShay's first mock draft today:

Detroit Lions (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/clubhouse?team=det)

Record: 9-5

http://assets.espn.go.com/i/teamlogos/nfl/sml/trans/det.gif
David Wilson (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/player/_/id/28963/david-wilson)*, RB, Virginia Tech
Spending another high pick on a running back would be a tough pill to swallow, but Jahvid Best has proved he's not durable enough to be a workhorse back. Wilson is a burner with toughness and improved inside running skills, and he could provide big-play potential.




Uhhhh, nope. Not going Running Back in the first round.

Silver & Blue
12-21-2011, 03:06 PM
McShay is on crack if he thinks we are taking a RB in the first round. Has he not seen our O-line and our secondary?

detroit4life
12-21-2011, 03:09 PM
I hope not but we all know Mayhew has been looking for a RB for the past 2 years. Not quite sure he is willing to rely on Leshoure at this point and with best's concussion problem he's about one more hit to the head before his career may be over.

With that said, and the emergence of Kevin Smith, i hope he looks to a FA RB to try and shore up our issues. I see no reason why we should avoid our obvious holes at oline and CB to fill a possible need at RB that can be fixed via FA

Xiomera
12-21-2011, 04:26 PM
I hope not but we all know Mayhew has been looking for a RB for the past 2 years. Not quite sure he is willing to rely on Leshoure at this point and with best's concussion problem he's about one more hit to the head before his career may be over.

With that said, and the emergence of Kevin Smith, i hope he looks to a FA RB to try and shore up our issues. I see no reason why we should avoid our obvious holes at oline and CB to fill a possible need at RB that can be fixed via FA

I'd feel good about Best, Leshoure, Smith and Morris next season at RB if the offensive line was upgraded. I am not willing to bail on the investments in Mikel and Jahvid (especially Mikel without ever having seen him on the field).

Prowler
12-21-2011, 10:03 PM
He's a ******* dumbass. I love David Wilson and think that he will be a Pro Bowl back, but RB is loaded this year. Richardson, Wilson, Miller, Polk, Pierce, etc. Why the heck would we blow a 1st rounder when we can get a good starter a little later?

and on that note, yeah I don't really even think we need one. LeShoure, Best, and Smith should be able to find a way to squeak 16 games(plus playoffs) out next year.

detroit4life
12-23-2011, 03:21 PM
I'd feel good about Best, Leshoure, Smith and Morris next season at RB if the offensive line was upgraded. I am not willing to bail on the investments in Mikel and Jahvid (especially Mikel without ever having seen him on the field).

Not saying give up on any of them, simply saying I would not rely on them 100% and would hope our 3rd guy can be relied upon to carry the load if necessary.

I'd stick with best, leshoure, and smith but I would drop Morris and look at a guy like tolbert in FA

Xiomera
12-23-2011, 03:35 PM
Not saying give up on any of them, simply saying I would not rely on them 100% and would hope our 3rd guy can be relied upon to carry the load if necessary.

I'd stick with best, leshoure, and smith but I would drop Morris and look at a guy like tolbert in FA

Didn't know Mo Mo was a UFA-to-be, so I'd draft a running back in the 4th round or later, but they have to address OL, CB, LB, DE before RB, if only because of the amount of resources invested in the position already.

Scotty D
12-23-2011, 09:46 PM
I'd stick with best, leshoure, and smith but I would drop Morris and look at a guy like tolbert in FA

Yeah, I'd go to camp with those 3 backs. Then sign a vet RB, maybe Ricky Williams or whoever is out there. Also bring Aaron Brown back for another training camp.

I don't care who you are drafting but using a 1st, 2nd, and another 1st round pick on RBs in consecutive years is really stupid. You can find RBs anywhere in the draft. Pretty stupid pick by McShay.

I'd say our main needs right now are OL (OTs then OG), CB, LB, S.

Who would you re-sign out of these?

Eric Wright
Chris Houston
Justin Durant
Stephen Tulloch

WMD
12-23-2011, 09:52 PM
How about we sell everything to move up for Matt Kalil? 2011 and 2012 First and Second round picks should do the trick!

detroit4life
12-23-2011, 09:54 PM
1) Tulloch
2) Houston
3) Wirght
4) durant

Honestly all of them but that may not be possible. Tulloch is a large part of our defense IMO and we need to keep him here.

As far as houston and wright, unless we have a plan to replace them (upgrade not a lesser replacement) i think they need to be brought back. Either way I hope we can upgrade a little at CB.

Durant has had his injury issues and has had less than an impact than the other 3. If we needed to i would be fine with a carpenter, tulloch, levy LB core

Prowler
12-24-2011, 08:09 AM
I'm on the "all" train with them. I like having 2 veterans at corner. If we draft a rookie then I don't want to see Smith or Berry having to start while the rookie learns the ropes. I guess I can live with just one of Houston or Wright, but I would prefer to keep both and drop Smith or Berry.

I also love our linebacking corps right now. If someone has to go then technically it should be Tulloch because Levy can man two positions and hasn't looked as impactful as he was inside. However, I would rather stockpile talent and let rookies learn like the Steelers do than have to play them right away.

Xiomera
12-24-2011, 09:31 AM
Durant was signed for 2 years. I think Houston was too, right?

Don't need to re-sign them yet. But I'd probably bring as many of them back as possible, but Avril is Priority 1.

Iamcanadian
12-27-2011, 01:41 AM
A RB isn't out of the picture with our 1st rounder. If a Wilson slips to us, then we may well grab him. This is a very weak draft with little depth. Most of the juniors declared last year before the rookie salary cap came into being leaving little talent for this year's draft. However, I suspect in this weak draft that there will be a run on RB's and we may never get a shot at Wilson.

Wilson could be a huge star in the NFL and what an offense we would have.

Of course, I'd like OLmen, at least 2 in the first 3 rounds but is there any talent there? I'm not seeing a whole lot.

I look for RB, and OL based strictly on BPA and think CB isn't a top priority any longer.

Xiomera
12-27-2011, 10:46 AM
Wasn't there a rookie cap anyways, basically?

Cam Newton got half as much as Bradford.

detroit4life
12-27-2011, 01:08 PM
With rumors of miami possibly moving jake long I have to ask the question... would you trade our 1st and possibly even our 2nd to get him?

An oline of Long at LT and backus at RT would be a significant upgrade over what we have now. Add another guard to replace peterman and we have ourselves a great oline.

Con side of it is cost and the question of longs durability. And of course losing our picks and the ability to add young talent. However the argument could be made that this team is very young and some veteran presence on offense could be better than adding more young guys to the mix

Xiomera
12-27-2011, 01:55 PM
I'd trade an entire draft class for Jake Long, assuming he's under contract or will re-sign here.

detroit4life
12-27-2011, 02:02 PM
Next year is his last year under contract so we'd have to sign him to an extension

WMD
12-27-2011, 02:02 PM
Jake Long is pretty damaged.. but I think I'd trade for him.

I wouldn't put Backus at RT though. His contract is up, and I wouldn't re-sign him unless he took a year or two for backup money.

Silver & Blue
12-27-2011, 05:19 PM
I would love to bring Jake Long back to Michigan. The injury he just had does concern me, but luckily he is still young and has time to recover. I think that we could get him for our 2013 1st and 2nd round draft picks. I would trade this years draft picks but we will probably have an even lower draft position next year. So this year we can draft a CB or OL if a good lineman falls to us.

detroit4life
12-27-2011, 05:22 PM
Not sure i'd let him walk. I would expect him to be very high on resigning with us. He's old and has been with this team while losing for way too long for him to want to leave now. Plus he's lived in michigan his college days at ann arbor. I think he'd give us a discount and would allow us to cut cherilus who has been a major bust IMO.

In a division where we play peppers, allen, and mathews 2x a year you need 2 quality tackles. They'll just switch sides and play away from long and manipulate the RT

Prowler
12-27-2011, 06:47 PM
I'd want Long, but I'd want him relatively cheap. I'd have no problem moving our 1st and 2nd to get him, provided we kept Backus as insurance as as a way of thanking him for his years of service.

Xiomera
12-27-2011, 06:50 PM
Let's draft WMU receiver Jordan White. Mid-round selection. He's been stellar today in his bowl and has obviously had a very accomplished career.

Prowler
12-27-2011, 06:56 PM
Everybody knows that he's going to get the ball 80% of the passing plays, but he still has an insanely high catch rate. Very reliable guy. I see him more as a James Jones or Antonio Brown type that can be an underneath option after CJ and Pettigrew with Titus clearing out.

Iamcanadian
12-29-2011, 11:26 AM
Signing new FA's or trading for high priced veterans is going to be very difficult for the Lions. Many, many veterans on the team will be looking for pay raises after making the playoffs and it may well cost us our entire budget to resign the team or to keep them happy.
I don't expect much movement in our roster for the coming year outside of rookies unless some veterans retire.

Prowler
12-29-2011, 11:52 AM
I guess we could resign that Calvin Johnson guy to a longer deal.

Scotty D
12-29-2011, 12:26 PM
I'm not sure we are going to be able to pay Avril. He's playing himself out of our budget.

Xiomera
12-29-2011, 12:30 PM
I'm not sure we are going to be able to pay Avril. He's playing himself out of our budget.

That's what I keep telling people. They could franchise tag him, but if they could somehow get Calvin signed longterm and bring down his $14 million cap hit for next season, they need to.

If Avril returns, there's no chance in hell we can bring Tulloch back.

Cutting Corey Williams' $9 million salary next season seems almost required to retain Avril. I'd be OK with that given how SLH seems to have improved.

Maybe This Year Mayhew
12-29-2011, 03:40 PM
That's what I keep telling people. They could franchise tag him, but if they could somehow get Calvin signed longterm and bring down his $14 million cap hit for next season, they need to.

If Avril returns, there's no chance in hell we can bring Tulloch back.

Cutting Corey Williams' $9 million salary next season seems almost required to retain Avril. I'd be OK with that given how SLH seems to have improved.


Calvin must be redone to keep Tulloch and Avril. I think Eric Wright is gone. Corey Williams cap number is only 5 million so they can hang on to him. I'd rather draft a center and get rid of Raiola and his 3.4 million before CW or restructure Burelson or Suh.

detroit4life
12-29-2011, 07:58 PM
Avril may have to be let go. Personally i could argue it is a smart decision. Avril has life easy for him playing on a line next to suh KVB and Corey or Fairley. Not quite sure his stats are an indicator of the value he brings.... At the same time I like the continuity of our front 4.

Corey should be let go. Fairley healthy and SLH warrants a cheaper option

Prowler
12-29-2011, 08:08 PM
Good thing that we draft BPA. Should make the decision much easier after this April.

Xiomera
12-29-2011, 08:12 PM
Calvin must be redone to keep Tulloch and Avril. I think Eric Wright is gone. Corey Williams cap number is only 5 million so they can hang on to him. I'd rather draft a center and get rid of Raiola and his 3.4 million before CW or restructure Burelson or Suh.

They can afford to cut Corey Williams though. Fairley must step up, but SLH and Flu are solid players. I'd rather have more money to keep Tulloch or Avril for sure.

The hope would be they could find a comparable starter to Wright in the 1st round.

Maybe Mayhew can put those great trade skills to use and swindle another couple starters with mid to late round picks (like Corey Williams, Rob Sims, Chris Houston).

Prowler
12-29-2011, 08:24 PM
I would like to see a young stud developed at OT, CB, DE with early round(1-2) picks. Then I want to see us picking BPA across the board with emphasis on those positions and interior oline.

With that said, I do love how Schwartz has relied on rotations at a lot of positions. Provides valuable experience and allows us a whole lot of flexibility.

Scotty D
12-29-2011, 09:26 PM
Willie Young could be a sleeper to break out. He's shown flashes.

noondog
12-29-2011, 11:17 PM
I'm sure I'll be scorned for saying this, but I'd rather see the Lions cut Williams and KVB and sign Avril long term. Avril has an absolute knack for separating QB's from the football (30 sacks with 14 FF's in his career) and despite all the positives the other two bring, it's tough to let a 4th year pro with that ability leave. Whether or not his production is a by-product of the rest of the line is debatable, but at the end of the day he's put up good numbers for us and is still improving.

The writing was on the wall as far as Williams is concerned with us once we drafted Fairley either way IMO. I fully expect him to be released given cap concerns and depth at the position.

shylo3716
01-01-2012, 05:57 PM
What direction will you guys go in the 1st Round?

Prowler
01-01-2012, 06:14 PM
Top of the board. Ideally OT, CB, C, G, DE, LB...but I wouldn't be shocked by a RB either. Its a crapshoot now and just depends on BPA as determined by projected skill over the course of the rookie's career. I would respect almost any mock projection right now provided they didn't have us doing some horrendous reach.

cotts1
01-01-2012, 11:53 PM
Vontaze Burfict or Mark Barron are my dream picks for the 1st round.

Tulloch has been a disappointment IMO. He may lead the team in tackles but his play has been less than stellar. Often find him out of position, over pursuing, not reading plays correctly. Bites on play action every time. Does not shed blocks well at all. Below average speed. I'm ready to move on from him....

Spievey isn't any good either. Rarely makes any big plays. No ball skills whatsoever. Average at best tackling. Poor speed. Barron may not be an upgrade in ball skills but the guy is a smasher. WR's will fear crossing the middle with him back there.

Xiomera
01-02-2012, 12:04 AM
Cornerback has to be the priority unless Mayhew can somehow acquire a starter for a late-round pick again like he did with Chris Houston.

Hopefully there is a worthy CB selection when we pick toward the end of round one.

RaiderNation
01-02-2012, 04:51 PM
If Avril leaves in F/A, could DE Vinny Curry make sense in the 1st?

BillySims
01-02-2012, 04:52 PM
Avril may have to be let go. Personally i could argue it is a smart decision. Avril has life easy for him playing on a line next to suh KVB and Corey or Fairley. Not quite sure his stats are an indicator of the value he brings.... At the same time I like the continuity of our front 4.

Corey should be let go. Fairley healthy and SLH warrants a cheaper option

Cliff Avril has improved each year since we drafted him. He was improving before we ever got Suh and William, and KVB.

Avril is most definitely a keeper. I would let Cory "Encroachment" Williams go 1000 times before I let Avril go. And we would still have 3 very good to great DT's remaining.

BillySims
01-02-2012, 05:15 PM
I look for RB, and OL based strictly on BPA and think CB isn't a top priority any longer.

Just curious. After the Packer game, do you still feel the same way?

BillySims
01-02-2012, 05:21 PM
I'm not sure we are going to be able to pay Avril. He's playing himself out of our budget.

Solution:

Cut Cory "Encroachment" Williams and give his $5Mill/year to Avril.

Prowler
01-02-2012, 06:27 PM
Backus's cap hit this year was $6.723 M, so we should have some money from that. Drafting a cornerback at 600k per would save us from having to pay Wright another $3.5 M. As for Calvin, well Fitzgerald just signed an 8 year $120 M deal in August of this past year with the final two years topping out over $17M per. Its an average of $15 M a year, but if we backload it...then we could potentially save from his $14M hit this year. We'd just have to hope the salary cap keeps increasing every year.

Scotty D
01-04-2012, 01:16 AM
Vontaze Burfict or Mark Barron are my dream picks for the 1st round.




I'd love Burfict on our defense. I think his playing style would fit in well with Suh, Fairley, and Delmas. I haven't caught any ASU games this year but heard he had a down year.

Silver & Blue
01-04-2012, 02:50 PM
Vontaze Burfict or Mark Barron are my dream picks for the 1st round.

Tulloch has been a disappointment IMO. He may lead the team in tackles but his play has been less than stellar. Often find him out of position, over pursuing, not reading plays correctly. Bites on play action every time. Does not shed blocks well at all. Below average speed. I'm ready to move on from him....

Spievey isn't any good either. Rarely makes any big plays. No ball skills whatsoever. Average at best tackling. Poor speed. Barron may not be an upgrade in ball skills but the guy is a smasher. WR's will fear crossing the middle with him back there.

Those are my two dream picks also, I wouldn't mind taking someone like Peter Konz but Barron and Burfict are definitely my top two. I agree with you on Tulloch and Spivey, I think both could make good backups though.

I'd love Burfict on our defense. I think his playing style would fit in well with Suh, Fairley, and Delmas. I haven't caught any ASU games this year but heard he had a down year.

Burfict would be a beast along with those guys, I think with the proper coaching he could end up being the next Ray Lewis. I know people are also concerned with his attitude but I think he will eventually outgrow that. It seems like he did kind of have a down year but ASU as a whole was pretty mediocre they only finished with a 6-7 record.

So my first five rounds of the Lions draft would look something like this.

1st Round: Burfict/Barron/Konz -This is in no particular order but I would be most happy with Burfict or Barron.

2nd Round: Trumaine Johnson/Jayron Hosley -I think that Trumaine Johnson would be a guy to keep your eye on, he plays like a corner but hits like a safety. Right now his stock is mid to late third round, but by the time the draft comes it will probably have risen to late 2nd round.

3rd Round: Sean Spence - This is assuming we don't get Burfict in the first round. I realize we already have Levy starting at WLB, but the only person we have behind him is Doug Hogue and I have no idea how he will turnout, Spence would be a beast at rushing the passer and stopping the run. This would be a great pickup talent wise.

4th Round: Jordan White - This is the pick that I want the most. Jordan White is extremely reliable when it comes to catching passes and he could be an incredible pickup here. Not to mention we need a 4th receiver because what if Nate, Calvin, or Titus goes down with an injury? The depth at receiver is greatly needed.

5th Round: Chris Rainey/Jeff Demps - The RB position has been devastated by injury this year. Having more depth there would be a big help. Both Jeff Demps and Chris Rainey have great speed, Rainey seems to have better spin moves and jukes then Demps does so if I had to pick one of them it would be Rainey. But I would be happy with either at this pick.

cotts1
01-05-2012, 05:41 PM
I'd love that draft. We may have an outside chance at David DeCastro as well. I'm real high on Jayron Hosley, I like him as our 1st round pick if Burfict, Barron, DeCastro and Konz are gone. I think he's the 3rd best CB in the draft. I'm not too familiar with Trumaine Johnson, I'll have to check him out.

Silver & Blue
01-05-2012, 07:28 PM
I'm not too familiar with Trumaine Johnson, I'll have to check him out.

He's a CB from Montana. He's got great size for a CB and we could use him to go against some of the bigger receivers we face. I think he has only played in two games this year, but he got one INT in each of those games. Here is some video on him.

Trumaine Johnson Highlights:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=twoBOATPVdw

Trumaine Johnson Hit:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Owp9zIS0L9s

Prowler
01-08-2012, 08:11 AM
These are my random draft thoughts that I'm attempting to make coherent in one location.

I am seriously torn with our first pick this year.

My Lions Needs
1) Corner help. We get killed by teams with more than 1 good WR.
2) Backus heir unless Fox gets a shot at it...
3) Stronger up front in oline. We need a power running game and a RB alone isn't enough.
4) Defensive studs to groom at DE and Lb.

I'm really not as worried about linebackers. We survived with Ashlee Palmer and Bobby Carpenter and as a unit its 3rd behind dline and secondary. I also believe that since our dline is purely pass rush first, then our linebackers need to be completely disciplined. That takes linebacker out of the 1st round for me. I'd prefer guys who've been in our system and are disciplined.

Philosophically speaking, I do believe that the 1st round pick should be a statement for the future of the franchise. Protecting Matt Stafford is a good statement. However, I also believe that as long as Calvin Johnson is alive then defenses will have to back off of us, which would lower Backus' replacement priority a couple notches. I think we can get away with an average player there, especially if we're not picking in top 10 anymore. Picking a Left tackle would be dependent on the combine, but as of now it isn't my pick in the 1st.

Now I believe I've narrowed it down to "CB help", "stronger on the interior oline", and "de stud" for the 1st rounder. I tend to value interior linemen as 2nd-5th round picks. I'm pretty trigger shy unless its a center that can make line adjustments himself for a 1st round pick. If we stumble on a cornerback that we like then we should take him. Houston and Wright are #2s. Teams that spread us out kill us. We can help on one of their matchups, but when we start relying on McDonald, Smith, or Berry to cover slot guys then they inevitably get burned deep for long scores. I like Spievey and Delmas, but they are merely starters and not Pro Bowl guys. We need a matchup "win" in the secondary. I also think that our corner should be drafted high, because I am tired of corners with weaknesses. The later we draft one, the more likely they'll be slower with good hands or merely fast without hands and we'll be no different than where we are at now. That leaves DE stud. We do have control of Avril, but Dline dominance is 98% of what our defense is about. It would have to be the right player here, but if we find a Dumervil/Orakpo type guy then we should snag him. Mercilus has the production, the passion, the size, and I believe the tools. He's undervalued in every professional mock draft right now, but he's a legit 1st round talent. We pay premiums for 3rd down control, which means Quarterbacks, Pass Rushers, and Cornerbacks. I'm not concerned about depth or Willie Young, its using the 1st round pick to further label "pass rush" as a pillar of the franchise. I don't want to wind up in a situation next year where Avril gets hurt and then KVB runs out of gas to make us look even worse than the Patriots D did this season.

Based on most likely draft scenarios...I see Janoris Jenkins, Mercilus, and Konz being there at our pick location. I'd recommend either:
A. drafting Mercilus or Konz
B. trading up for Claiborne or Kirkpatrick
Jenkins has character concerns, spent a year playing against lesser talent and is more of a gamble that I don't want to take. I also have a couple growing concerns about Dennard. I'd rather blow a 2nd rounder and grab a guy with less questions than take a chance on him. I see the Eagles at pick 15 as good trade partners if Kirkpatrick gets past Carolina at 8.

I want the best players at their positions for our pick. I don't want the 4th best corner. I can see scenarios where Mercilus ends up being more productive than Coples from this class. Basically I don't think Scouts Inc or most sites have even properly evaluated him yet.

And yes...our 4th or 5th "need" ends up being my 1st round pick.

wicket
01-08-2012, 11:26 AM
Since i kinda like the lions im really hoping gilmore falls to yall in the second

Babylon
01-08-2012, 11:56 AM
Not sure i've seen worse tackling LBs than i saw last night in New Orleans. I think as time goes on that front will do a better job of keeping blockers off the second level of the defense but that trio as it stands now isnt winning any championships.

On a sidenote the Stafford to Johnson connection, while still young, is the most dynamic i've ever seen and some of you know that spans quite some time.

Xiomera
01-08-2012, 12:59 PM
I would not be the least bit disappointed with a draft of only defenders.

noondog
01-08-2012, 01:09 PM
I would not be the least bit disappointed with a draft of only defenders.

Word to the big bird. If we deviate from D, I only want it to be for O-line.

Prowler
01-08-2012, 01:18 PM
but McShay says we need another Kevin Jones!

wingboy2999
01-08-2012, 02:22 PM
I would not be the least bit disappointed with a draft of only defenders.

I agree. I'd love love love LOVE if we could snag Mark Barron and pair him with Delmas.

Scotty D
01-09-2012, 12:29 AM
I feel like we have a ton of needs and positions to upgrade. I'm not happy with a lot of positions. The one thing about having a franchise QB and Megatron though is that they can cover up a lot of deficiencies (like Peyton's roster and Brady's defense).

Anyone know our draft pick now? Is it set?

cotts1
01-09-2012, 12:44 AM
Yes, I believe we have the 23rd pick.

Scotty D
01-09-2012, 12:47 AM
Yes, I believe we have the 23rd pick.

That is still a good spot. We can get a starter there.

cotts1
01-09-2012, 12:56 AM
Yea I'm sure we'll find a good player. Just gonna be hard for them to decide which way to go. I'm hoping for Burfict or Barron. Don't think either will make it to us though.

Silver & Blue
01-09-2012, 01:02 AM
Yea I'm sure we'll find a good player. Just gonna be hard for them to decide which way to go. I'm hoping for Burfict or Barron. Don't think either will make it to us though.

Both would be a immediate upgrade, I think Burfict has a slightly better chance of falling then Barron due to his attitude. We could have really used either of those guys last night.

detroit4life
01-09-2012, 09:31 AM
not a huge fan of barron as hard hitting safeties are getting flagged more and more.

I think we would have to think about moving up is kirkpatrick falls past 12 which is a legit possibility.

if not burfict or BA CB

cotts1
01-09-2012, 11:59 AM
Yea that is a concern but I don't think that should make the Lions shy away from him entirely. He's still a vast upgrade over Spievey IMO. Barron is excellent in run support, would immediately improve that aspect of our defense. Jury is still out on how good his pass coverage is. We'll see.

I'm not sure I want the Lions trading up. I love Kirkpatrick but I think we need to keep all our picks. This team needs good depth just as much as it needs starters.

Prowler
01-09-2012, 12:07 PM
I'll be watching the Alabama defense closely tonight. I like the idea of a trade up for Kirkpatrick.

Iamcanadian
01-09-2012, 12:30 PM
I think Sunday's game really exposed our weaknesses and CB was the least of our problems. Suh was terrible and really had a bad season as teams have learned to adjust to using his strengths against him and unless he adjusts next season, our DL becomes a priority. We likely cut Corey Williams, and promote Fairley/Hill to the position and replacing Vanden Bosch then becomes a top priority because he is no longer able to provide a pass rush.
Fixing our pass rush has to be the top priority if we want to take the next step.
Yes, our OL needs some replacement parts and a stud at RB would be nice, but they both may have to wait.

Please people, let's keep the draft real, Kilpatrick isn't going to be anywhere near where we draft, far more likely to go top 10 than fall anywhere near us.

This is a very weak draft year and drafting at #23 likely means we will only be getting a borderline first rounder if that. I have an awful lot of faith in Meyhew to bring home the bacon but it will be a really tough job finding some talent in this year's draft after so many juniors declared last year before the rookie salary cap came into being.

detroit4life
01-09-2012, 01:47 PM
I think Sunday's game really exposed our weaknesses and CB was the least of our problems. Suh was terrible and really had a bad season as teams have learned to adjust to using his strengths against him and unless he adjusts next season, our DL becomes a priority. We likely cut Corey Williams, and promote Fairley/Hill to the position and replacing Vanden Bosch then becomes a top priority because he is no longer able to provide a pass rush.
Fixing our pass rush has to be the top priority if we want to take the next step.
Yes, our OL needs some replacement parts and a stud at RB would be nice, but they both may have to wait.

Please people, let's keep the draft real, Kilpatrick isn't going to be anywhere near where we draft, far more likely to go top 10 than fall anywhere near us.

This is a very weak draft year and drafting at #23 likely means we will only be getting a borderline first rounder if that. I have an awful lot of faith in Meyhew to bring home the bacon but it will be a really tough job finding some talent in this year's draft after so many juniors declared last year before the rookie salary cap came into being.

In my opinion Kirkpatrick falls come draft time. Not suggesting he fall to our pick but if it takes a 3rd or 4th round pick to move up and get him i think you take it and get a good talent at a position of need.

Fact is the top 10 has 2 QBs, atleast 2 OTs, atleast 1 WR, 1 RB and claiborne pretty solidified already. Plenty of other talent in there to have Kirkpatrick take a Akamumara type dive into the teens.



The more i read about Barron the more I see his as a bust. You can't break a play up in the NFL by laying a hit anymore. Sure Barron would help in rush defense but aren't we drafting a safety for pass coverage (our biggest weakness)? He seems more of a roy williams safety. These type of safeties are getting virtuously extinct from this league and not what we need to be using a first round pick on.

Iamcanadian
01-09-2012, 01:51 PM
I like your list but it only totals 7, I look for Kilpatrick to go top 10 without much effort. Just isn't much talent in this draft for anybody to slip.

Prowler
01-09-2012, 01:55 PM
We should probably focus on Robert Lester then, the OTHER safety from Alabama. He's more of a centerfielder and is supposedly great in coverage. I have only seen 1 Alabama game this year, so I'll have my eye on him too. He's a Junior and still undecided but might jump. He should be somewhere in the 2nd round. Its possible he could jump to late 1st with a great combine, but I don't see it happening.

*and yeah, he might even grade out to be a 3rd round type on most boards.

Iamcanadian
01-09-2012, 02:01 PM
IMO, you can draft DB's from here to kingdom come but unless we can apply a pass rush, it won't change a thing. We will continue to give up 500 yards per game till we fix the pass rush.

Anyways, I'm believe in Mayhew and will accept any direction he goes in, CB, RB, OL, DE's etc. Whoever he believes in is good enough for me.

detroit4life
01-09-2012, 02:02 PM
I like your list but it only totals 7, I look for Kilpatrick to go top 10 without much effort. Just isn't much talent in this draft for anybody to slip.

Possibility is there, I'm just pointing out that while there are 3 open spots for top 10 but people said the same thing about Prince last year. Depending on what it would take we should consider moving up. Atleast make the phone call, we did it last year for peterson and refused to over pay, i'd expect we do the same this year.


What are thought on janoris jenkins? character issues but talent is certainly there

Prowler
01-09-2012, 02:09 PM
Janoris has good instincts, solid tackler, great pedigree, played at Florida as a true Freshman, but I'm seeing Patrick Robinson with additional baggage. I think he's solid, but I don't want another player with the same caliber as Eric Wright. I prefer a trade up.

I've also heard a lot of concerns about Dennard being a "holder" and I think there's a decent drop off after Claiborne and Kirkpatrick.

detroit4life
01-09-2012, 02:25 PM
Also as a 2nd or 3rd round option if not later I think David Molk, center from Michigan certainly has pro potential and wouldn't mind taking him at some point to let him play behind Raiola for a year or two

Iamcanadian
01-09-2012, 02:26 PM
Janoris has good instincts, solid tackler, great pedigree, played at Florida as a true Freshman, but I'm seeing Patrick Robinson with additional baggage. I think he's solid, but I don't want another player with the same caliber as Eric Wright. I prefer a trade up.

I've also heard a lot of concerns about Dennard being a "holder" and I think there's a decent drop off after Claiborne and Kirkpatrick.

I agree with both statements. This draft is so weak that I fully expect Janoris to move up substantially even with all the character concerns. teams will be drafting from desperation after about 15-20 picks. I also agree that there is a huge drop off after Claiborne and Kilpatrick which is why I doubt we get a shot at him.

SINCE1978
01-09-2012, 09:16 PM
Also as a 2nd or 3rd round option if not later I think David Molk, center from Michigan certainly has pro potential and wouldn't mind taking him at some point to let him play behind Raiola for a year or two

Good call. Dom (although seems to personifies the D) is 33 now & due $4M I think I read?? It's a really solid draft for C's (weird) & the big 10 was loaded with them ... in addition to Molk as a 2-3 rounder, Peter Konz (Jr Wisky) & Mike Brewster (OSU) are 1-2 rounders ... but I like Ben Jones (UGA) I think he is going to be a solid pro & Stafford would appreciate another Bulldog on the team. Especially one who he has to put his hands on his butt. :o)

1) Pay Calvin. Period. 2) Work hard to retain Avril but not much over market (he wants to stay) 3) Extend Tulloch 4) Buy Michael Griffin S Titans in FA ... then 5) draft something like this:

Chase Minnifield CB UVA
Ben Jones C UGA
Brandon Boykin CB/KR UGA
Josh Kaddu OLB Oregon

or don't go after a S in FA and ...

Mark Barron S Bama
Jayron Hosley CB Va Tech
David Molk C Mich
Tank Carder LB TCU

Xiomera
01-09-2012, 11:01 PM
I don't think Raiola will get cut. Let's be realists here.

cotts1
01-10-2012, 02:06 AM
With the wide 9 defense having safeties and CB's that are good in run support is imperative. As you probably know, our d-line plays with no regard for the run. I think its stupid but thats apparently what the coaches want. It puts a lot of stress on the LB's and DB's to come up and stop the run. Often having to take on much of the O-line because our D-line is too busy running the opposite way and not occupying blockers.

Didn't really get to see Barron in pass coverage tonight since Jordan Jefferson is god awful. Was kinda surprised they had Barron at FS and Lester at SS tonight. Coulda swore they were on opposite sides the first time they played LSU. Lester is a good prospect, looked good tonight. Hopefully he comes out. Burfict and Lester for our first two picks would make me happy.

Lastly, I hope we can find away to draft Tyrann Mathieu next year....Lions could use a sure tackling, ballhawking CB who can also return kicks in the woooorst way...

Scotty D
01-10-2012, 12:52 PM
Peter Konz, C - Wisconsin?

SINCE1978
01-13-2012, 07:49 PM
Peter Konz, C - Wisconsin?

Like Konz a TON ... what's the "?" for?
Although it would cost Detroit pick #23, a 6-5 C would be soooo refreshing! (haha)

Thanks for the service ... but Dom is 33/34 & due $4M I believe. Time to upgrade (get younger, bigger & cheaper). Monty Ball ran right up the gut behind Konz a bunch in 2011 (2010 too) I imagine Leshoure doing that too, for years to come.

Not sexy but very functional. Pair this pick with a rd 2 selection of a versatile/talented S like Markelle Martin (Ok St) or a run stuffing/6-1 CB like Stephon Gilmore (S. Carolina) or CB Casey Hayward (Vandi) I would be very happy with that 1st & 2nd round.

Resign Backus for 1 year & draft Nate Potter LT (Boise St) in rd 3. Then let Fox, Potter, Hilliard & Cherilus battle it out for 2 T spots for 2013 ... how bout dem apples !?!?! :o)

retain Tulloch & Avril ... re-up Backus for veteran min @ 1 yr deal around $1M (assuming he heals good from surgery) keep CJ but wait until next year to pay him the BIG $ contract (he'll stay)

let go of Raiola & Wright ...

see what Michael Griffin is fetching in FA & let Spievey learn S from the sidelines not on the field ... that could an amazing Mayhem off-season!


1) Konz C - Wisky
2) Gilmore CB - S. Carolina
3) Potter LT - Boise St.

(keep) Avril, Tulloch, CJ, Backus (reduced)
(+) draft, M. Griffin?
(-) Raiola, Wright

Iamcanadian
01-14-2012, 09:14 AM
Like Konz a TON ... what's the "?" for?
Although it would cost Detroit pick #23, a 6-5 C would be soooo refreshing! (haha)

I could live with Konz if he has a solid combine.

Thanks for the service ... but Dom is 33/34 & due $4M I believe. Time to upgrade (get younger, bigger & cheaper). Monty Ball ran right up the gut behind Konz a bunch in 2011 (2010 too) I imagine Leshoure doing that too, for years to come.

Yeah, but can he pass block, the combine will tell.

Not sexy but very functional. Pair this pick with a rd 2 selection of a versatile/talented S like Markelle Martin (Ok St) or a run stuffing/6-1 CB like Stephon Gilmore (S. Carolina) or CB Casey Hayward (Vandi) I would be very happy with that 1st & 2nd round.

Decent but I'm not a Hayward fan. Much rather see us draft Trumain Johnson CB/S in round 2, he could be a real steal. He's a big CB with tremendous physical abilities and dominated at the lower level.

Resign Backus for 1 year & draft Nate Potter LT (Boise St) in rd 3. Then let Fox, Potter, Hilliard & Cherilus battle it out for 2 T spots for 2013 ... how bout dem apples !?!?! :o)

None of them can be a starter at LT in the NFL IMO except Backus.

retain Tulloch & Avril ... re-up Backus for veteran min @ 1 yr deal around $1M (assuming he heals good from surgery) keep CJ but wait until next year to pay him the BIG $ contract (he'll stay)

Backus won't sign for the veteran minimum if he is healthy. He can get big bucks in FA. LT go very fast in FA as they almost never go on the FA list.

let go of Raiola & Wright ...

see what Michael Griffin is fetching in FA & let Spievey learn S from the sidelines not on the field ... that could an amazing Mayhem off-season!

Never going to happen. Spivey is the starter period.


1) Konz C - Wisky
2) Gilmore CB - S. Carolina
3) Potter LT - Boise St.

(keep) Avril, Tulloch, CJ, Backus (reduced)
(+) draft, M. Griffin?
(-) Raiola, Wright

IMO, KVB looks like he has lost a step and we need to seriously upgrade his position if we want to have a solid defense.

SINCE1978
01-14-2012, 11:58 AM
I bet Mayhew thinks they have Backus' replacement in the wings with Jason Fox. Love it or hate it, I would not be surprised if they give Fox a shot in camp (depending on the Backus contract & his healing from surgery)

Regarding Nate Potter ... he will be a LT in the NFL. He obviously is an above avg pass blocker, just ask Kellen Moore! (haha) His flaw is his run blocking but that is why he is not a 1st rounder.

Spievey is not my choice as the S next to Delmas. He seems like Cunningham's "project", so like you say he is likely locked in their unless a new DC is brought in. Maybe the below average corner play the past 2 seasons has exploited some of his on the field learning failures? I just have not seen enough to be excited about him as the starting S.

Just my opinions.

Xiomera
01-14-2012, 12:32 PM
I don't think for one second that Mayhew would give Jason Fox the job. He spent the year on IR, didn't he? And as a rookie, he played a few dozen snaps. There's no way he's the protector of Stafford.

DoWnThEfiElD
01-15-2012, 10:01 AM
What if M. Floyd or A. Jeffery fell and provided better value that any of the positions of need, could anyone see and scenario where we take one of them and cut Burleson? Or will Young eventually be able to step up and be a number 2?

Prowler
01-15-2012, 12:58 PM
They would potentially be best available and I am not opposed to drafting a WR with that talent at 4 years and just under $2 million. I would think Mercilus would still be BPA, then WRs or Konz depending on their combines. I would really prefer getting a player at a bigger need, but I wouldn't complain. We have to catch the Packers one way or another.

Xiomera
01-15-2012, 01:15 PM
What if M. Floyd or A. Jeffery fell and provided better value that any of the positions of need, could anyone see and scenario where we take one of them and cut Burleson? Or will Young eventually be able to step up and be a number 2?

It's an interesting thought. Burleson seems like he could be cut and replaced with someone younger and cheaper, but I think that's probably one year premature. If the Lions had a current fourth receiver that was worth a damn, then I could see it. But Stovall and Davis are no such receiver.

SINCE1978
01-15-2012, 06:37 PM
Not a fan of WR in 1st. There will be other BPA @ 23. I debate this with someone every year, BPA is not necessarily BPA left on your board. There is some situational intelligence applied, like if the Lions board looked like

23) RGIII (QB)
24) Mercilus (DE)
25) Jeffrey (WR)

when it's there turn to pick ... they clearly skip a 1st rd QB like Griffin & go with the DE Mercilus. This is strictly "hypothetical" but you get my drift.

DoWnThEfiElD
01-15-2012, 07:29 PM
Ya it was just a thought, there are obviously better choices for us, but I really like both of those guys as compliments to Calvin. I can imagine the rage that would erupt on 97.1 if that were to occur however haha.

I'm still all in for taking the best player available which is the strategy I think the front office will take.

I'm just imagining a scenario where it's Zack Brown or Michael Floyd (due to the way the 1st round played out), and I'd probably go with Floyd all day.

WMD
01-15-2012, 07:45 PM
Spievey kinda pretty much sucks.. how is he the "starter period"? He's the starter if we can't find an upgrade but I'd definitely look to improve that position.

Brodeur
01-15-2012, 07:47 PM
Spievey kinda pretty much sucks.. how is he the "starter period"? He's the starter if we can't find an upgrade but I'd definitely look to improve that position.

Yeahhh, please don't let him start next year. He can't do anything.

Xiomera
01-15-2012, 07:56 PM
He's the "starter, period" because there are greater positions of need and ones occupied by old players or entirely vacated.

It's pretty obvious the Lions aren't going to part with players like Spievey and Raiola (as some of you guys clamor for) when there are more glaring problems.

I'm in no way saying those guys couldn't and shouldn't be upgraded, but my expectations are realistic.

Scotty D
01-15-2012, 11:37 PM
I'm fine with Backus and Dom for one more year.

I thought Spievey played ok earlier in the season. He had a few timely interceptions. It was his first year playing safety. I think he still has a chance to be a good player. I'll give him one more year.

No to any WR picks. The offense can score points. Need to bring in a better veteran than Rashied Davis though.

I wouldn't mind a DE early.

SINCE1978
01-16-2012, 01:16 PM
He's the "starter, period" because there are greater positions of need and ones occupied by old players or entirely vacated.

It's pretty obvious the Lions aren't going to part with players like Spievey and Raiola (as some of you guys clamor for) when there are more glaring problems.

I'm in no way saying those guys couldn't and shouldn't be upgraded, but my expectations are realistic.

You brought up Burleson getting cut & I don't see how that is any more "realistic' than Raiola getting cut Xio ...

Our common ground is we both feel Raiola & Spievey are upgradable.

Prowler
01-16-2012, 02:09 PM
I wouldn't mind being able to run the ball up the middle sometime in my lifetime. Konz and Zeitler would be pretty nice. We'd have to say "f our defense" to do it though.

Xiomera
01-16-2012, 02:50 PM
You brought up Burleson getting cut & I don't see how that is any more "realistic' than Raiola getting cut Xio ...

Our common ground is we both feel Raiola & Spievey are upgradable.

I certainly wasn't the one who brought up the notion of cutting Nate. This is what I said:

It's an interesting thought. Burleson seems like he could be cut and replaced with someone younger and cheaper, but I think that's probably one year premature. If the Lions had a current fourth receiver that was worth a damn, then I could see it. But Stovall and Davis are no such receiver.

There isn't a chance in hell Burleson will be cut. Even the guy who originally brought it up was only speaking hypothetically, as many of us do.

I guarantee that Raiola, Burleson and Spievey are all on the team next year.

Iamcanadian
01-16-2012, 10:59 PM
I'm fine with Backus and Dom for one more year.

I thought Spievey played ok earlier in the season. He had a few timely interceptions. It was his first year playing safety. I think he still has a chance to be a good player. I'll give him one more year.

No to any WR picks. The offense can score points. Need to bring in a better veteran than Rashied Davis though.

I wouldn't mind a DE early.

Right in tune with you Scotty, that's pretty well how I see it.

We are scoring 35 points a game so why would we draft WR's or an OC unless they were irresistible when we draft. Rated so high above the next pick on our board that you had to take one. Sure an OC or a LT would be nice but I think we can win now, and yes, I mean a Super Bowl.

We absolutely stunk on run defense and our sack totals weren't competitive with other top teams, so it seems to me that we will draft defense and more defense. I fully agree that a DE to replace KVB who looked lost in the playoffs and appears to have lost a step, would be nice if the opportunity presents itself in the draft.

Schwartz would in all likelihood draft a bigger DE, somebody like a Cam Johnson or a Billy Winn. For those who don't know Cam Johnson, Virginia
(6'3", 270lbs.). He is the hardest working DE in college football. He wears down blockers with his fanatical effort and is also a skilled rusher capable of winning with speed and power. He has the ability to wreck havoc off the edges which makes him an ideal RDE.

Prowler
01-17-2012, 10:00 AM
1. Whitney Mercilus DE Illinois

He stays as our pick. Btw, he had 1.5 sacks against Mike Adams and got another one against Wisconsin. Scouts Inc knocks his "closing speed" but he can go speed and strength. He sets OTs up with speed, but has several good counter moves.

http://www.cfbstats.com/2011/player/301/1016550/sack/gamelog.html

2. Ben Jones C Georgia

Veteran of SEC trenches, has good hand technique, and even started 10 games at Center while Stafford was there. Can this become our own Manning-Saturday battery?

3. Casey Hayward CB Vanderbilt

I have Trumane Johnson just off the board, but Casey Hayward on the top at this point. This is another true steal. He was absolutely victimized by belonging to a terrible Vanderbilt team. If he went to school at Florida, then he would be a 1st rounder. 7 interceptions with 2 in the bowl game means that Hayward shouldn't drop game changing interceptions in playoff games.

http://www.cfbstats.com/2011/player/736/1019134/interception/gamelog.html

4. Jordan White WR Western Michigan

I know we give him love, but his reviews are mixed out there. He did have a pretty big injury that made him miss 2008 and made this year his 6th year due to medical hardship. He should go 2nd or 3rd, but I believe he'll be here for us. We won't ask much out of him initially, but he'll be very dependable and allow us to really open up the field if we want to show different spread looks.

5. Nico Johnson LB Alabama

This pick is more about depth and respect for Nick Saban's coaching. He should provide solid depth in the middle.

7. Daron Rose OT North Alabama

Credit goes to Walterfootball for this one. This guy started 11 games at left tackle for Florida State in 2007 as a Sophomore. He had to do the Janoris Jenkins thing because he was caught in a cheating scandal. He has the tools, and at this point in the draft should be a worthwhile gamble.

Late round conditional pick from Seattle

Janzen Jackson S Formerly of Tennessee and McNeese State

This dude does not have it all together, but he's got the talent. This is a throw away gamble type pick anyway and he gets the shot because he has the highest ceiling.

Iamcanadian
01-17-2012, 11:16 AM
1. Whitney Mercilus DE Illinois

He stays as our pick. Btw, he had 1.5 sacks against Mike Adams and got another one against Wisconsin. Scouts Inc knocks his "closing speed" but he can go speed and strength. He sets OTs up with speed, but has several good counter moves.

http://www.cfbstats.com/2011/player/301/1016550/sack/gamelog.html

2. Ben Jones C Georgia

Veteran of SEC trenches, has good hand technique, and even started 10 games at Center while Stafford was there. Can this become our own Manning-Saturday battery?

3. Casey Hayward CB Vanderbilt

I have Trumane Johnson just off the board, but Casey Hayward on the top at this point. This is another true steal. He was absolutely victimized by belonging to a terrible Vanderbilt team. If he went to school at Florida, then he would be a 1st rounder. 7 interceptions with 2 in the bowl game means that Hayward shouldn't drop game changing interceptions in playoff games.

http://www.cfbstats.com/2011/player/736/1019134/interception/gamelog.html

4. Jordan White WR Western Michigan

I know we give him love, but his reviews are mixed out there. He did have a pretty big injury that made him miss 2008 and made this year his 6th year due to medical hardship. He should go 2nd or 3rd, but I believe he'll be here for us. We won't ask much out of him initially, but he'll be very dependable and allow us to really open up the field if we want to show different spread looks.

5. Nico Johnson LB Alabama

This pick is more about depth and respect for Nick Saban's coaching. He should provide solid depth in the middle.

7. Daron Rose OT North Alabama

Credit goes to Walterfootball for this one. This guy started 11 games at left tackle for Florida State in 2007 as a Sophomore. He had to do the Janoris Jenkins thing because he was caught in a cheating scandal. He has the tools, and at this point in the draft should be a worthwhile gamble.

Late round conditional pick from Seattle

Janzen Jackson S Formerly of Tennessee and McNeese State

This dude does not have it all together, but he's got the talent. This is a throw away gamble type pick anyway and he gets the shot because he has the highest ceiling.

Just looking at the top 3, I could live happily with Mercilus, Jones and Hayward although I'm not convinced that Hayward can cover man to man. Strictly a zone guy IMO.

SRogers92
01-17-2012, 01:42 PM
Spievey kinda pretty much sucks.. how is he the "starter period"? He's the starter if we can't find an upgrade but I'd definitely look to improve that position.

This.

Spievey is terrible. Harris is one of the worst in the league, or so he played like it.


My wish list:

1) Melvin Ingram -- I've been on the DE bandwagon a ton. Don't think Avril is consistent at all and KVB is a rotational player now.
2) David DeCastro -- Steve Hutchinson part two.
3) Peter Konz -- Need to move on from the aging OL.
4) Mark Barron -- I hate Spievey.
5) Janoris Jenkins


In Round two I'd love to grab Brandon Boykin -- loved what I saw from him this year!

FA will be huge for us. I think the FO will push hard for both CB Cortland Finnegan(whom Titans fans feel like was one of the best CBs in the league this year) and FS Michael Griffin. Schwartz knows both and both love him and this system. Would lessen our draft day needs, too.


BTW -- Mayhew in his presser after the playoff loss said that he realizes 3 of our starting OL are on the wrong side of 30 years old and they'll begin to really look at that. Glad to hear after we seemingly have ignored it for years!

noondog
01-17-2012, 02:40 PM
This.

Spievey is terrible. Harris is one of the worst in the league, or so he played like it.


My wish list:

1) Melvin Ingram -- I've been on the DE bandwagon a ton. Don't think Avril is consistent at all and KVB is a rotational player now.
2) David DeCastro -- Steve Hutchinson part two.
3) Peter Konz -- Need to move on from the aging OL.
4) Mark Barron -- I hate Spievey.
5) Janoris Jenkins


In Round two I'd love to grab Brandon Boykin -- loved what I saw from him this year!

FA will be huge for us. I think the FO will push hard for both CB Cortland Finnegan(whom Titans fans feel like was one of the best CBs in the league this year) and FS Michael Griffin. Schwartz knows both and both love him and this system. Would lessen our draft day needs, too.


BTW -- Mayhew in his presser after the playoff loss said that he realizes 3 of our starting OL are on the wrong side of 30 years old and they'll begin to really look at that. Glad to hear after we seemingly have ignored it for years!

That gave me an instant semi.

SINCE1978
01-19-2012, 11:33 AM
This.

Spievey is terrible. Harris is one of the worst in the league, or so he played like it.


My wish list:

1) Melvin Ingram -- I've been on the DE bandwagon a ton. Don't think Avril is consistent at all and KVB is a rotational player now.
2) David DeCastro -- Steve Hutchinson part two.
3) Peter Konz -- Need to move on from the aging OL.
4) Mark Barron -- I hate Spievey.
5) Janoris Jenkins


In Round two I'd love to grab Brandon Boykin -- loved what I saw from him this year!

FA will be huge for us. I think the FO will push hard for both CB Cortland Finnegan(whom Titans fans feel like was one of the best CBs in the league this year) and FS Michael Griffin. Schwartz knows both and both love him and this system. Would lessen our draft day needs, too.


BTW -- Mayhew in his presser after the playoff loss said that he realizes 3 of our starting OL are on the wrong side of 30 years old and they'll begin to really look at that. Glad to hear after we seemingly have ignored it for years!

That is a solid list of players to target @ #23 ... I would add Alfonzo Dennard since you know Detroit is going to add a CB one way (draft) or the other (FA). I think (& others) that he outplayed Prince Amukamara in 2010 for the Huskers. I like him @ #23, Barron is VERY intriguing to me too (b/c I feel very similar about Spievey & the overall awfull depth @ S). If Avril goes elsewhere I might think DE too but like CB, S, G/C for sure.

Lockstep on Boykin. Very electric in the SEC. He had an amazing Outback Bowl against MSU, the guy was everywhere!

Melvin Ingram & Brandon Boykin would add 2 really amazing athletes to that D, (replacing Avril & Wright) thus freeing up $$ to maybe targeting those Titans you listed. EMM HMMM :o)

Prowler
01-19-2012, 11:54 AM
Top 10ish Senior Bowl guys to watch next week.

1. Matt McCants LT UAB
Current Projected Round: 3-5

Guy has an impressive resume of protecting his QB and has the tools to be a good pass protector. He needs to bulk up, but he's worth the look as a potential redshirt type guy for our left side.

2. Cam Johnson DE Virginia
Current Projected Round: 3-4

Good fit with size and motor for our line.

3. Mike Brewster C Ohio State
Current Projected Round: 2-4

How bad is he really? Is he underrated now? Worth watching the trench wars and seeing how tough he really is. Does fall off the face of the Earth like O'Dowd?

4. Zach Brown WLB North Carolina
Current Projected Round: 1-2

He's got the speed, how about the recognition? How good is his coverage skills? Can he handle TEs like Finley and Graham?

5. Alfonzo Dennard CB Nebraska
Current Projected Round: 1-2

Prove it to me that you're worth a first round pick.

6. Melvin Ingram DE/OLB South Carolina
Current Projected Round: 1

Are you a 34 lber or can you handle playing with your hand down in the NFL?

7. Bobby Wagner WLB/MLB Utah State
Current Projected Round 3-6

DeAndre Levy 2.0? Great middle draft value and is a tackling machine. Played against weak WAC competition.

8. Zebrie Sanders OT Florida State
Current Projected Round: 1-2

9. Ben Jones C Georgia
Current Projected Round: 2-3

10a. Cordy Glenn G Georgia
Current Projected Round: 1

10b. Kevin Zeitler G Wisconsin
Current Projected Round 2-3

10c. Kelechi Osemele G/T Iowa State
Current Projected Round 2-3

SINCE1978
01-20-2012, 11:25 AM
In Scott's updated mock he has Detroit taking OSU T Mike Adams. Hmmmm ....

With players still on the board like Dennard,Jenkins,Burfict,Konz,Perry,Floyd??

Maybe This Year Mayhew
01-20-2012, 11:37 AM
In Scott's updated mock he has Detroit taking OSU T Mike Adams. Hmmmm ....

With players still on the board like Dennard,Jenkins,Burfict,Konz,Perry,Floyd??

Scotts been wanting the Lions to take a tackle since the dawn of time.

But I agree Mike Adams isn't BPA. I wouldn't mind the pick though.

Xiomera
01-20-2012, 12:01 PM
Yep, that's exactly it. Scott is waiting for them to take an OT so he can finally shout "I told you so."

They'll go defense unless one of the elite interior OLineman are there, and even then, I'd still put defense as the more likely of the two.

cotts1
01-20-2012, 01:58 PM
Yea I can't see the Lions taking Adams in the 1st at this point. Doubt he is quick enough to play LT in the NFL. Just isn't worth taking a RT that early unless it's a dire need, which it isn't.

Prowler
01-20-2012, 02:29 PM
Mike Adams actually reminds me a ton of Michael Oher, only a poor mans version?(can it get poorer than homeless?) Adams is nice, but I think he's only a right tackle. He has huge problems with speed, Mercilus's speed was too much for him, and scouts unfairly question his speed. I still think of Adams as a 2nd rounder...I think people are this site are nuts for rating him top 20.

I stupidly defended our pick of Gosder a few years ago, but I've learned my lesson. You don't take right tackles in the first round. He's not good enough, so why draft a below average guy instead of actually upgrading a different position?

*And I finally saw the mock draft. That's literally my nightmare scenario. I'd have to go Konz or Glenn.

Scotty D
01-20-2012, 09:23 PM
I don't like the Mike Adams pick at all.

Prowler
01-24-2012, 09:29 AM
Senior Bowl Recap from Scott/ESPN/2-3 other sites filtered with my Lions bias.

I still don't remotely believe in Mike Adams, but apparently he looked the part of an elite RT and potential LT on Monday.

Cordy Glenn is starting Left Tackle and reminds people of Shawn Andrews.

Bobby Wagner is super disciplined and moved up to 2-3rd round consideration.

Lions showed interest in Ingram, Dan Herron, Audie Cole, Mitchell Schwartz, and I thought I saw a Doug Martin mention too.

Janoris Jenkins is helping himself a ton on the maturity issues.

Dennard does not turn and run very well. He's great with keeping his hands on receivers early...no surprise.

Nothing else major except WR news from people that I don't really want to blow 2nd-4th round picks on when we have Titus.

Zeitler is a beast and looks great.

Cam Johnson beat Bergstrom(Utah) a couple times.
I'm not buying into any of the 1 on 1 matchup news from Monday yet either. I've seen it labeled as Brewster got handled by Martin, and I've also seen it as 2-2 with both winning 2 matchups. I'm more interested in the next couple of days than day 1.

Prowler
01-25-2012, 08:22 AM
Day 2 of Lions biased scribbles

There are some outstanding linebackers. Bobby Wagner and Audie Cole are extremely impressive. Zach Brown might actually be worth the 1st round pick if he can pull off his 4.3 40 time at the combine. He really does run like a corner(crappy corner but awesome for linebacker). He'd be a huge upgrade to our back 7. I haven't really seen him hit though.

Zebrie Sanders and Matt McCants had solid days and appear to be able to do the job.

Cam Johnson still looked pretty good against Mike Adams, but Adams has the tools to become great.

Cordy Glenn is not a left tackle.

Zeitler is spending a lot of time at center.

Osemele is huge and eats defenders alive.

Dennard looks like a 2nd round corner and I'm not a huge fan anymore.

Janoris Jenkins looks like a late 1st guy.

Casey Hayward is good at press and had a good day.

I like Melvin Ingram, but would prefer he go to a 34 team.

Lavonte David murdered Polk in a pass protection drill.

Apparently we're looking at WRs for middle-late with Brian Quick and Dwight Jones.

Prowler
01-25-2012, 11:02 AM
http://aol.sportingnews.com/nfl/feed/2011-10/nfl-mock-draft/story/nfl-mock-draft-andrew-luck-robert-griffin-iii-justin-blackmon-matt-kalil?eadid=EL/SICOM&sct=hp_bf3_a2

wow...sporting news also has us taking Sean Spence...but in the 1st round.

Iamcanadian
01-25-2012, 01:58 PM
Apparently we're looking at WRs for middle-late with Brian Quick and Dwight Jones.

Quick has so far had a terrible Senior Bowl, trying to catch every ball against his body rather than use his hands and has dropped a lot of balls because of it.

Prowler
01-25-2012, 02:47 PM
Quick has so far had a terrible Senior Bowl, trying to catch every ball against his body rather than use his hands and has dropped a lot of balls because of it.

Agreed, I wish it were Marvin Jones instead.

SINCE1978
01-25-2012, 07:05 PM
To all the Senior Bowl talk for the Lions specifically ...

I am liking all I read about Audie Cole, but think a late 1st/early 2nd will end up being the cost for him. Too much? Maybe not.

Janoris Jenkins seems to be a mighty fine CB to those of you who where wondering :o) If the character stuff checks out, getting him @ #23 could be S-W-E-E-T for the Leo's.

Harrison Smith if he slipped into the 3rd I would love him as a S/gunner. May even be worthy of the 2nd rd pick given the struggles @ S (but Spievey seems to be Cunningham's "personal project")

Keleche Osemele would instantly upgrade (literally!) Peterman @ G ... although it may take pick #23 to get him. If he is there @ #46 I am all over that one!

Brandon Boyken is a CB/KR I have been very high on for awhile. He took on every #1 SEC WR & may not have the ideal size but he sure seems to make plays. He could be a sweet pick up in rd 2 depending how the Leo's go with rd 1. I like this kid.

Zebre Sanders was interviewed by the Lion's, I would not mind that pick either. Clearly they have liked what they have seen.

Melvin Ingram could be the next "it" DE. He is hard to explain, but has so many unique qualities.

Prowler
01-25-2012, 08:48 PM
I'm surprisingly getting higher on Zach Brown. I think he can turn and outrun Finley/Jimmy Graham. The guy is an outstanding pass rusher too. Speed kills and he's got it and plays smart. Gunther would have to revert to some blitzing, but I think he'd be an amazing draft pick. He can probably cover most possession receivers without it being a terrible matchup. I haven't made up my mind, but Zach Brown followed by a Cam Johnson is starting to look really good.

SINCE1978
01-27-2012, 05:35 AM
I'm surprisingly getting higher on Zach Brown. I think he can turn and outrun Finley/Jimmy Graham. The guy is an outstanding pass rusher too. Speed kills and he's got it and plays smart. Gunther would have to revert to some blitzing, but I think he'd be an amazing draft pick. He can probably cover most possession receivers without it being a terrible matchup. I haven't made up my mind, but Zach Brown followed by a Cam Johnson is starting to look really good.

So you like ...
a little bit of chicken fried & cold beer on a Friday night ... a pair of jeans that fits just right & the radio uuuuupppp! (sorry, couldn't resist)

Zach Brown is sweet fo sho! Lions interviewed him @ Senior Bowl per MLive, where I just read he was a wrestling champ & sprint champ in HS (expects to run in the 4.35 range @ combine!) so he would be an every down LB, even in nickle with that speed. Gives Detroit "options" for sure with Tulloch/Levy etc.

If Brown does run that fast @ Indy he may not be there @ #23. There are DB's that don't run that fast!

Iamcanadian
01-27-2012, 11:16 AM
Until the Combine all the 4.35 talk is just a myth, I doubt he runs under a 4.53 but you never know. Last year, they called Von Miller a 4.3 something runner and he couldn't break 4.50 at the Combine.

cotts1
02-06-2012, 11:50 AM
I guess Mike Adams is back in play after a solid showing at the senior bowl. I'm still not sure about him though, I remember Michigan D-linemen having their way with him against osu last year.

noondog
02-08-2012, 09:20 AM
I've been giving this some thought as of late, and right now I think I want to see the Lions target Dre Kirkpatrick in the first round. I think his stock will fall after his arrest and Detroit may be able to move up just enough to grab him without really giving up too much.

Scotty D
02-08-2012, 11:39 PM
I've been giving this some thought as of late, and right now I think I want to see the Lions target Dre Kirkpatrick in the first round. I think his stock will fall after his arrest and Detroit may be able to move up just enough to grab him without really giving up too much.

Well his case was dropped but I don't think that will change his situation with NFL teams. Haven't seen Mayhew draft a guy with any drug problems or off the field problems. Doesn't mean he won't but I'm still waiting for the first time. But I love SEC defenders and Dre would look great in a Lions uniform.

Prowler
02-09-2012, 09:38 AM
I think our best bet with Kirkpatrick rests with Dallas at #14. However, I don't believe that they'd let Kirkpatrick get by them. If for some reason, the Cowboys pick someone else, then the Eagles might become trade partners at #15. I can't see Philly being over excited to draft a MLB at pick #15. Trade value also matches up with our 1st and 2nd at those spots.

Fred Savage
02-10-2012, 03:11 PM
Just got excited, thinking about LaMichael James in the 2nd or 3rd. I know we went 2 high pick RB's in a row, but I assume Best is done and Leshoure is hard to rely on right now. Would basically be the same type guy as Best, can catch, break huge runs/catches in the open field, your thoughts? I know it is kinda risky.

Xiomera
02-10-2012, 03:13 PM
I'll punch you in the eye, Fred Savage.

NO ******* WAY

Fred Savage
02-11-2012, 05:44 PM
I'll punch you in the eye, Fred Savage.

NO ******* WAY

Due to misfortune/bad luck RB is still a huge need. Assume we sign Finnegan and Griffen, go BPA DE/OL/LB in round 1, if a big time RB talent is there in R2 what do we do? Kinda playing devils advocate here.

Or do we sign Kevin Smith and hope Leshoure and Best (doubtful) get healthy and produce.

Prowler
02-11-2012, 07:47 PM
Or do we sign Kevin Smith and hope Leshoure and Best (doubtful) get healthy and produce.

That. Kevin Smith/Best/Leshoure will be serviceable. RB is just too easy to find replacements. Hell, Joique Bell could probably come in and bang out a 100 yard game if we fixed our oline. Keiland Williams even had one good game last year. If we can improve that oline, then we'll be a lot better off than bringing another young running back.

Scotty D
02-11-2012, 07:59 PM
No more early round picks on RBs!

Prowler
02-11-2012, 08:41 PM
I'd be willing to look in the 4th round if the talent level was right. I'd want a criminal type of steal though, like a Pierce or Polk(current late 3rd grade from ESPN) type of guy.

Fred Savage
02-12-2012, 12:47 PM
On a semi-related note, we need an upgrade over Logan. Over the last two seasons he has been awful, makes zero plays and coughs the ball up.

Also, why doesn't Titus return punts, fumble too much? Anyone know?

Scotty D
02-12-2012, 02:49 PM
I thought Logan was great the year before but this season was sketchy. Just wild speculation on my part but I think the kick off rule was part of it. Its probably easier to return when you get more opportunities in a game and can get in to a rhythm. I think Titus is to valuable now to play special teams. Have a league minimum guy do it.

Xiomera
02-12-2012, 03:01 PM
Logan wasn't bad on kickoffs. It was his atrocious decision-making on when to signal fair catch that has people up in arms.

Logan is not a young guy. The Lions could do better than him.

Maybe This Year Mayhew
02-13-2012, 08:31 AM
Logan does well on kickoffs(but had way less opportunities this year) but has one big fumble a year it seems. Punt returns he's not very good at judging when to return or fair catch. And Logan does hold his own in coverage on special teams. Last year at Minnesota big fumble on punt, this year against Atlanta on KO(after a re-kick due to a Falcon offside penalty, which was the difference in the game).

noondog
02-13-2012, 11:19 AM
That. Kevin Smith/Best/Leshoure will be serviceable. RB is just too easy to find replacements. Hell, Joique Bell could probably come in and bang out a 100 yard game if we fixed our oline. Keiland Williams even had one good game last year. If we can improve that oline, then we'll be a lot better off than bringing another young running back.

Mehhhhh, I don't know about that. I have my doubts that Smith and Best can make through even 2/3's of a season with their history of injuries. I'm praying that Leshoure can come back and be a 14-16 game back for us, otherwise we're in trouble. I'm not even sold on Best being on the roster next season.

Fred Savage
02-13-2012, 11:41 AM
Mehhhhh, I don't know about that. I have my doubts that Smith and Best can make through even 2/3's of a season with their history of injuries. I'm praying that Leshoure can come back and be a 14-16 game back for us, otherwise we're in trouble. I'm not even sold on Best being on the roster next season.

That's kinda what I was thinking with Lamichael James. Late 2nd round pick (maybe), very similar to Best coming out of college. Would fill his roll perfectly, open space, catching the ball. I really think Best's career is done. Even if he plays next year, he is one big hit from being done. Although I would prefer to sign a good veteren back. Hopefully Ricky Williams comes out of retirement.

noondog
02-13-2012, 11:47 AM
That's kinda what I was thinking with Lamichael James. Late 2nd round pick (maybe), very similar to Best coming out of college. Would fill his roll perfectly, open space, catching the ball. I really think Best's career is done. Even if he plays next year, he is one big hit from being done. Although I would prefer to sign a good veteren back. Hopefully Ricky Williams comes out of retirement.

I think we need to find a back or two later in the draft or via FA/practice squad. We have too many other pressing holes to fill to spend another high pick on a RB imoSomeone on another thread was mentioning that Thomas Jones could be cut, and I could see him being useful to us for a season along with Mikel. Michael Bush might be available too and he would be a nice addition.

Fred Savage
02-13-2012, 11:56 AM
I think we need to find a back or two later in the draft or via FA/practice squad. We have too many other pressing holes to fill to spend another high pick on a RB imoSomeone on another thread was mentioning that Thomas Jones could be cut, and I could see him being useful to us for a season along with Mikel. Michael Bush might be available too and he would be a nice addition.

Sounds good to me.

What does everyone feel about taking a late round pick on Janzen Jackson? Amazing talent, played very good at Tennessee, started as true freshman, however, character issues, was dismissed from school.

noondog
02-13-2012, 12:09 PM
Sounds good to me.

What does everyone feel about taking a late round pick on Janzen Jackson? Amazing talent, played very good at Tennessee, started as true freshman, however, character issues, was dismissed from school.

Wonder if we could give him a look as an UDFA?

Prowler
02-16-2012, 04:12 PM
So...what does our draft board look like?

Let other teams draft these guys tier
Andrew Luck
RG3
Justin Blackmon
Courtney Upshaw
Melvin Ingram
----------------

Matt Kalil
Morris Claiborne
Quentin Coples
Riley Reiff
Jonathan Martin

Dre Kirkpatrick
Janoris Jenkins
Whitney Mercilus
Mike Adams
David DeCastro

Mark Barron
Trent Richardson
Zach Brown
Peter Konz
Nick Perry

Anything past this and I say trade down.

WMD
02-16-2012, 10:00 PM
If Dre Kirkpatrick is still there in the 12-17 area, we should really think about trading up for him.

I'm all for trading up this year.. whether it's to the top for Kalil or Claiborne, or to the middle area for Kirkpatrick or DeCastro.

noondog
02-17-2012, 08:06 AM
If Dre Kirkpatrick is still there in the 12-17 area, we should really think about trading up for him.

I'm all for trading up this year.. whether it's to the top for Kalil or Claiborne, or to the middle area for Kirkpatrick or DeCastro.

I'm all for trading up as well. An impact CB or O-lineman would be sweet.

Prowler
02-17-2012, 05:32 PM
I would love to trade everything for Kalil, but the Falcons made that way too expensive. We'd have to trade our 1st-4th rounders this year and 1st and 2nd next year. Maybe more because of demand for RG3 and the Vikings needing Kalil. I almost couldn't care less about 3rd and 4th round picks, but 2 first and 2 2nds makes me reluctantly accept that we are probably too far away from him for a trade.

Scotty D
02-17-2012, 05:59 PM
So...what does our draft board look like?

Let other teams draft these guys tier
Andrew Luck
RG3
Justin Blackmon
Courtney Upshaw
Melvin Ingram
----------------

Matt Kalil
Morris Claiborne
Quentin Coples - Move Down
Riley Reiff
Jonathan Martin

Dre Kirkpatrick - Move Down
Janoris Jenkins - Move Down
Whitney Mercilus
Mike Adams
David DeCastro - Move up

Mark Barron - Move up
Trent Richardson - Move way up
Zach Brown
Peter Konz
Nick Perry - Move up

Add Kuechly somewhere in the middle tier. I'm still researching Burfict.

Anything past this and I say trade down.

I was working on one of these at work after I saw your post. My thoughts in bold.

Prowler
02-17-2012, 08:54 PM
I like so many of these guys that its very difficult to actually think about which one I actually want in order. Especially when there's no excuse of "he probably won't be there" to help qualify the rankings. I don't want to rank Blackmon, Upshaw, or Ingram. Blackmon could be the best value, but I'm more than happy with our receiver situation. In fact, I don't want to muck it up with possible unhappiness or rivalries. I don't want to touch Ingram because I think his value is best in a scheme where he can be more of a focus. He should be creatively used as 43 End, DT, and rush LBer. We already have a Suh to play with, are we going to make Gunther design plays to get Suh, Fairley, technically still Corey Williams all involved? I want prototype freaks that can do their base jobs, while we scheme ways for Suh and the others to make impacts. I also feel safer with Cam Johnson or Vinny Curry later than forcing Ingram in round 1. Upshaw is also shorter and although he has great pass rushing talent, I don't want to mess around when we have other options out there. I think he belongs in a 34 and will easily go top 13.

I'm also wiping MLBs off of the first round picture. I know we were terrible against the run, but I think that was scheme. I don't think we should value the position that highly. I think Kuechly would actually be outstanding in our system, but I'd rather have a Zach Brown who can fly and cover in nickel packages. The Packers aren't a threat to run it down our throats, the Bears oline is our *****, and thankfully the Vikings oline and Peterson have some problems too. I'd rather have someone cover Forte and Finley down the field than tackle them one to two yards sooner. We should be a nickle team.

That's also why the corners are higher. I wish I could bring DeCastro higher, but our one building block on oline is already at LG and our tackle situation soon to be desperate. Coples is going to be slightly forgiven due to Butch Davis leaving and also Michael Johnson's play for Cincy has made me believe that talent can be coached up. I also trust that Suh would make him nasty. Mercilus, well I would draft him in the top 15 most years. I don't quite like him as much as I did Orakpo, but he's getting close. He should test well and his toughness and pass rushing ability are there. Nick Perry is great, but he seems like more of a work in progress. I want to see his workouts because I know Mercilus, Curry, and Cam can get it done from day 1.

If I had to bet money on our actual front office's decision on draft day...I'd say that we're walking out with Mike Adams or Zach Brown.

WMD
02-17-2012, 09:15 PM
We should draft someone that can cover a TE. That would help us out quite a bit.

Fred Savage
02-18-2012, 10:21 AM
We should draft someone that can cover a TE. That would help us out quite a bit.

I think you're forgeting about Amari Speviey, ahahaha.

How do people feel about a guy like George Iloka in the 2nd or 3rd? Haven't seen much of him, but he looks like he could be a potential ball hawk FS, allow Delmas to get in the box.

Fred Savage
02-18-2012, 03:27 PM
Starting to do my youtube scouting, I know, laugh it up, I have a day job. I came away very impressed with Chase Minnifield. Looks like a pure cover corner, would fit with our scheme, how about him at 23 or would we be able to move back for him.

Scotty D
02-18-2012, 05:35 PM
Starting to do my youtube scouting, I know, laugh it up, I have a day job. I came away very impressed with Chase Minnifield. Looks like a pure cover corner, would fit with our scheme, how about him at 23 or would we be able to move back for him.

I wouldn't mind that pick up at all. Pick up an extra third most likely.

2nd - Minnifield, CB / Boykin, CB - Georgia / Gilmore, CB - USC
3rd - Hosley, CB Va Tech / Casey Heyward, CB - Vandy
3rd - LaMichael James, RB - Oregon / Lamar Miller, RB - MIA/ Doug Martin, RB - Boise / Mike Brewster, C - OSU

I wouldn't mind drafting a CB in the second and third. If we got an extra third I'd be more open to drafting a RB. If we move down out of the range of Mike Adams there won't be another chance to get a LT most likely. Still would like to address DE and LB though. Maybe Doug Hogue can show something in preseason.

Prowler
02-18-2012, 07:30 PM
I'm scared of having a team of Wright, Houston, and Smith again. I don't really want 2nd or 3rd round corners. All of those guys were 2nd rounders and I'd rather trade our entire draft for one player that I can count on to be a stud. I'm not fully sold on Dre until I see him workout, but if he performs well then we might need to pull the trigger on him or Jenkins if we want a CB.

Prowler
02-18-2012, 07:54 PM
http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7582996/biggest-offseason-needs-every-nfc-north-team

Mike Kurtz is a writer for Football Outsiders.

Detroit Lions: Offensive line

The book on the 2011 Lions was that they were an awful running team that had to rely on the pass. Indeed, Detroit finished 10th in passing DVOA and right in the middle of the pack in rushing DVOA. However, Matthew Stafford was phenomenal, contributing 1,446 DYAR to the offense, more even than Super Bowl MVP Eli Manning. Stafford also has astoundingly quick feet and surprisingly good pocket presence. His Manning-esque ability to evade pressure contributed greatly to an impressive 10th-ranked ASR for the Lions' offense.

Detroit's maligned running backs played in one of the most even-handed platoons in the league. We at Football Outsiders separate running backs with fewer than 100 rushes from the main list of running backs because of concern about the smaller sample size. No Lions running back ran with enough frequency to reach that threshold. With that caveat, however, Kevin Smith (7.2 percent DVOA) and Jahvid Best (5.8 percent DVOA) were above-average backs in their limited time. Smith, in fact, was precisely as valuable on a value-per-play basis (DVOA) as Pro Bowler and first-team All-Pro Maurice Jones-Drew. Smith was also extremely valuable in the passing game, with a DVOA of 27.2 percent, good for eighth best among running backs.

By demonstrating the utility of the rest of the offense, we expose the severe issues with Detroit's offensive line that conventional statistics obscure. Detroit sported the second-worst offensive line in the league by ALY, and Smith and Best look even more impressive in light of the fact that the Lions' line allowed the defense to stuff 21 percent of all running plays. Although none of these linemen distinguishes himself in any way, center Dominic Raiola and right guard Stephen Peterman played particularly awfully and greatly contributed to Detroit's 28th-ranked power running game.

Tackles Jeff Backus and Gosder Cherilus, on the other hand, were poor in pass blocking; Backus gave up 7.5 sacks, according to tape analysis, and Cherilus 6.5. Most of these sacks were complete failures to block anybody, including one play when Cherilus was beaten on a two-man rush. Fortunately, Detroit can make immediate repairs in the 2012 draft, which has a number of quality linemen projecting out somewhere around Detroit's 23rd pick. Players such as Wisconsin's Kevin Zeitler and Ohio State's Mike Adams, both of whom could play immediately and be instant upgrades, should still be available.

Some interesting oline analysis.

Scotty D
02-19-2012, 10:03 AM
That article makes sense. Kevin Smith looked amazing before he injured his ankle. He should be brought back. We have three above average running backs but can't rely on any of them. Sort of a weird situation. The Bell pick up could end up being an under the radar move that pays dividends. He created some buzz last year in training camp for the Saints. I don't think he has a contract for next year but we can keep him because of that exclusive rights mumbo jumbo.

Prowler
02-19-2012, 10:36 AM
I wouldn't mind Zeitler in the 2nd. I think he's in that late 2nd-3rd round range. He gets the bonus points because he can play some Center in a pinch. I also like hearing that Peterman was actually terrible. It reinforces my prejudice against him and his horrible penalties.

I have no idea how we're going to cover all our needs this offseason. I think this is the year to play free agency like an auction draft. Let everyone blow huge money on the top guys with aggressive bidding and then have us raid the leftovers for a $1. Too many teams have $30-40m in cap room. I still don't even know what direction we should go in the draft yet. I can't wait for the combine and the start of FA.

Iamcanadian
02-24-2012, 09:28 AM
I have no idea how we're going to cover all our needs this offseason. I think this is the year to play free agency like an auction draft. Let everyone blow huge money on the top guys with aggressive bidding and then have us raid the leftovers for a $1. Too many teams have $30-40m in cap room. I still don't even know what direction we should go in the draft yet. I can't wait for the combine and the start of FA.

I don't think there is much choice but to follow your advice. As for the draft, it will all come down to who falls to us in each round. We likely won't target anyone in round 1 but just wait to see how it plays out.

Prowler
02-27-2012, 08:09 PM
Nick Perry has looked really impressive. Pretty much 6'3" 271lbs, 4.64 40, 35 bench reps, 38.5" Vertical, 124" Broad Jump. I don't follow much HS football here, but he went to MLK HS in Detroit. Local boy coming home?

Scotty D
02-27-2012, 10:31 PM
Nick Perry has looked really impressive. Pretty much 6'3" 271lbs, 4.64 40, 35 bench reps, 38.5" Vertical, 124" Broad Jump. I don't follow much HS football here, but he went to MLK HS in Detroit. Local boy coming home?

I'd draft him but now sure if he'll be around. I missed most of the combine so I can't really comment to much on it. All I know is we need all those DTs to move up in to the top 20.

noondog
02-28-2012, 10:38 AM
I can't believe how far Vontaze Burfict's stock has seemed to drop. His interview regarding character concerns seemed to be peppered with "yeah, but"s. 3rd round might be best case scenario for him now.

Prowler
02-28-2012, 03:11 PM
I can't believe how far Vontaze Burfict's stock has seemed to drop. His interview regarding character concerns seemed to be peppered with "yeah, but"s. 3rd round might be best case scenario for him now.

lol yeah. I love this quote, "The coaches kind of messed me up. I didn’t know if I would start a game or be benched. It hurt me, but I tried to fight through it."

He had 17 personal fouls in 35 career games...yet he was kind of messed up by being benched for it. How miraculous of him to fight through that adversity.

http://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2012/2/27/2828995/vontaze-burficts-nightmare-combine-continues -also sums his combine performance up nicely
Burfict's official 40 time was 5.09, slower than 4 offensive lineman. His broad jump was around two feet shorter than the top performers. His vertical jump was only 30, no where near the top performers. In no category did he even make the top 15.
I think he's a 6th-7th round flyer.

WMD
02-28-2012, 05:56 PM
I hate when guys have a ton of talent but can't get their head straight.

Brothgar
02-28-2012, 05:57 PM
I was in control of the Lions in the Forum Mock/FA Thoughts?

My Draft

23. Detroit Lions - OG Cordy Glenn, Georgia
54. Detroit Lions - CB Stephon Gilmore, South Carolina
87. Detroit Lions - C Mike Brewster, Ohio State
120. Detroit Lions - LB Terrell Manning, NC State
159. Detroit Lions - WR Devon Wylie, Fresno State
171. Arizona Cardinals (from MIN via WAS) - DE Olivier Vernon, Miami (TRADED TO DETROIT)

My FA

Signed:

Detroit Lions:
- OT Marcus McNiell - Mid
- OG Eric Steinbach - Mid
- S Brandon Merriweather - Low
- S Bob Sanders - Low
- LB Lofa Tatupu - Low
- OT Ryan O'Callaghan - VM
- OL Jonathan Scott - VM
- QB Drew Stanton - VM
- QB Tyler Thigpen - VM
- LB Bobby Carpenter - VM
- DT Shaun Ellis - VM
- RB Kevin Smith - VM

Lost

- Shaun Hill
- Jeff Backus
- Gosder Cherilus
- Leonard Davis
- Don Muhlbach
- Cliff Avril
- Andre Fluellen
- Stephen Tulloch
- Isaiah Ekejiuba
- Brandon McDonald
- Eric Wright
- Erik Coleman
- Chris Harris


2012 Depth Chart (pre UDFA)

QB - Matt Stafford > Drew Stanton > Tyler Thigpen
RB - Javid Best > Mikel Leshour > Kevin Smith > Keiland Williams
WR1 - Calvin Johnson > Titus Young > Rashied Davis
WR2 - Nate Burleson > Devon Wylie > Stefan Logan
TE - Brandon Pettigrew > Tony Scheffler > Will Heller
LT - Marcus McNiel > Jason Fox
LG - Rob Sims > Dylan Gandy
C - Dominic Raiola > Mike Brewster
RG - Eric Steinbach > Stephen Peterman
RT - Cordy Glenn > Jonathan Scott = Ryan O'Callaghan > Corey Hilliard

DE - Lawrence Jackson > Willie Young
DT - Ndamukong Suh > Sammie Hill
DT - Corey Williams > Nick Fairley
DE - Kyle Vanden Bosch > Olivier Vernon
OLB - Justin Durant > Bobby Carpenter
MLB - Lofa Tatupu > DeAndre Leavy > Ashlee Palmer
OLB - DeAndre Levy > Terrell Manning > Doug Hogue
LCB Chris Houston > Alphonso Smith > Aaron Berry
RCB Stephon Gilmore > Don Carey
SS - Amari Spievey > Brandon Merriweather > Chris Harris
FS - Louis Delmas > Bob Sanders > John Wendling > Ricardo Silva

Xiomera
02-28-2012, 06:01 PM
Backus isn't going anywhere. Sorry, it's hard for me to process all of it if I know right away something won't happen.

noondog
02-29-2012, 11:33 AM
I was in control of the Lions in the Forum Mock/FA Thoughts?

My Draft

23. Detroit Lions - OG Cordy Glenn, Georgia
54. Detroit Lions - CB Stephon Gilmore, South Carolina
87. Detroit Lions - C Mike Brewster, Ohio State
120. Detroit Lions - LB Terrell Manning, NC State
159. Detroit Lions - WR Devon Wylie, Fresno State
171. Arizona Cardinals (from MIN via WAS) - DE Olivier Vernon, Miami (TRADED TO DETROIT)

My FA

Signed:

Detroit Lions:
- OT Marcus McNiell - Mid
- OG Eric Steinbach - Mid
- S Brandon Merriweather - Low
- S Bob Sanders - Low
- LB Lofa Tatupu - Low
- OT Ryan O'Callaghan - VM
- OL Jonathan Scott - VM
- QB Drew Stanton - VM
- QB Tyler Thigpen - VM
- LB Bobby Carpenter - VM
- DT Shaun Ellis - VM
- RB Kevin Smith - VM

Lost

- Shaun Hill
- Jeff Backus
- Gosder Cherilus
- Leonard Davis
- Don Muhlbach
- Cliff Avril
- Andre Fluellen
- Stephen Tulloch
- Isaiah Ekejiuba
- Brandon McDonald
- Eric Wright
- Erik Coleman
- Chris Harris


2012 Depth Chart (pre UDFA)

QB - Matt Stafford > Drew Stanton > Tyler Thigpen
RB - Javid Best > Mikel Leshour > Kevin Smith > Keiland Williams
WR1 - Calvin Johnson > Titus Young > Rashied Davis
WR2 - Nate Burleson > Devon Wylie > Stefan Logan
TE - Brandon Pettigrew > Tony Scheffler > Will Heller
LT - Marcus McNiel > Jason Fox
LG - Rob Sims > Dylan Gandy
C - Dominic Raiola > Mike Brewster
RG - Eric Steinbach > Stephen Peterman
RT - Cordy Glenn > Jonathan Scott = Ryan O'Callaghan > Corey Hilliard

DE - Lawrence Jackson > Willie Young
DT - Ndamukong Suh > Sammie Hill
DT - Corey Williams > Nick Fairley
DE - Kyle Vanden Bosch > Olivier Vernon
OLB - Justin Durant > Bobby Carpenter
MLB - Lofa Tatupu > DeAndre Leavy > Ashlee Palmer
OLB - DeAndre Levy > Terrell Manning > Doug Hogue
LCB Chris Houston > Alphonso Smith > Aaron Berry
RCB Stephon Gilmore > Don Carey
SS - Amari Spievey > Brandon Merriweather > Chris Harris
FS - Louis Delmas > Bob Sanders > John Wendling > Ricardo Silva

Secondary is scary, and not in a good way. DE is weak too.

Iamcanadian
02-29-2012, 07:17 PM
To sign all those FA's would mean cutting even more starters. FA's on the open market always cost a bundle while resigning your own costs a lot less.

You team would not be possible without some more major cuts and your bringing in a lot of injured players who may be a shadow of their former selves.

This team doesn't need a major overhaul to be Super Bowl competitive next year, just better play from our younger studs with added experience.

weasel
03-09-2012, 02:14 PM
I would start with:
Janoris Jenkins CB - best cover corner in the draft/top ten talent
Brandon Washington OG - Potential inside is sky-high
Bruce Irvin OLB - Speed rusher with impact potential, very raw
Vontaze Burflict ILB - Boom or Bust, character issues veteran lockerroom
Donte Paige-Moss DE - Better than draft position
Devon Wylie WR - Can't coach speed, slot receiver
Jordan White WR - 6'3" 215 lbs., very productive. Homer pick.

I would probably not sign Avril and Tulloch and look to get Griffen at Safety and Hawthorne at OLB.

weasel
03-09-2012, 02:24 PM
I would start with:
Janoris Jenkins CB - best cover corner in the draft/top ten talent
Brandon Washington OG - Potential inside is sky-high
Bruce Irvin OLB - Speed rusher with impact potential, very raw
Vontaze Burflict ILB - Boom or Bust, character issues veteran lockerroom
Donte Paige-Moss DE - Better than draft position
Devon Wylie WR - Can't coach speed, slot receiver
Jordan White WR - 6'3" 215 lbs., very productive. Homer pick.

I would probably not sign Avril and Tulloch and look to get Griffen at Safety and Hawthorne at OLB.

Iamcanadian
03-10-2012, 10:47 PM
I would start with:
Janoris Jenkins CB - best cover corner in the draft/top ten talent
Brandon Washington OG - Potential inside is sky-high
Bruce Irvin OLB - Speed rusher with impact potential, very raw
Vontaze Burflict ILB - Boom or Bust, character issues veteran lockerroom
Donte Paige-Moss DE - Better than draft position
Devon Wylie WR - Can't coach speed, slot receiver
Jordan White WR - 6'3" 215 lbs., very productive. Homer pick.

I would probably not sign Avril and Tulloch and look to get Griffen at Safety and Hawthorne at OLB.

Avril is already franchised.

I doubt they touch Jenkins with a ten foot pole, he is the very definition of a huge character problem. Winning teams avoid guys like this as if they are a plague.

Washington would be a nice pick in round 2 if he last till our pick.

Bruce Irwin might not last till round 3.

Burfect is another prospect that winning teams will avoid. He's slower than any MLB now in the league and totally erratic on the playing field, likely because he isn't fast enough to get there on a consistent basis.

Paige-Moss doesn't excite me one bit but in round 5, just maybe.

Devon Wylie, I like but could easily go before round 6.

detroit4life
03-13-2012, 07:50 PM
If you ask me I think Mayhew is going to corner a CB in round 1. He hasn't even looked at a corner in FA and is turning his attention to safeties and OGs.

He seems as if he does not focus very heavily on 1st round Olinemen. He has had his chances before and has passed them up everytime.

I expect his to add a CB in round one and focus on Oline after that.

If Kirkpatrick is there I don't see how we say no. With Greg Jennings and now Brandon Marshall in our division we could use a bigger CB type player. Lets be real, Houston cannot guard Marshall, I dont care how fast he is, cutler can throw it over him every time.

If we manage to Sign Landry and Add a 1st round CB our secondary has a whole new look to it

Iamcanadian
03-14-2012, 08:24 PM
If you ask me I think Mayhew is going to corner a CB in round 1. He hasn't even looked at a corner in FA and is turning his attention to safeties and OGs.

He seems as if he does not focus very heavily on 1st round Olinemen. He has had his chances before and has passed them up everytime.

I expect his to add a CB in round one and focus on Oline after that.

If Kirkpatrick is there I don't see how we say no. With Greg Jennings and now Brandon Marshall in our division we could use a bigger CB type player. Lets be real, Houston cannot guard Marshall, I dont care how fast he is, cutler can throw it over him every time.

If we manage to Sign Landry and Add a 1st round CB our secondary has a whole new look to it

Doubt Kilpatrick lasts till 23, not a likely scenario. We are pretty set at Safety so why waste more money on the position.

CB is a strong possibility if they really like what is left but I doubt they find Janoris Jenkins appealing, leaving Josh Johnson and Stephen Gilmore as possibilities.

I suspect they won't reach for either but you never know. I look for them to grab whatever falls into their lap whether it is a CB, LB, DE or OLman. They won't be too picky.

Iamcanadian
03-14-2012, 08:30 PM
Sorry, my submit button went haywire on me but gave no indication of having posted so I kept hitting it.

Brothgar
03-14-2012, 09:26 PM
Doubt Kilpatrick lasts till 23, not a likely scenario. We are pretty set at Safety so why waste more money on the position.

CB is a strong possibility if they really like what is left but I doubt they find Janoris Jenkins appealing, leaving Josh Johnson and Stephen Gilmore as possibilities.

I suspect they won't reach for either but you never know. I look for them to grab whatever falls into their lap whether it is a CB, LB, DE or OLman. They won't be too picky.

Why DE? Avril's franchise tag tells me that they are looking at OL or CB. I think there is still a chance that the Lions resign Tulloch with Calvin's new deal.

Brodeur
03-14-2012, 09:58 PM
Doubt Kilpatrick lasts till 23, not a likely scenario. We are pretty set at Safety so why waste more money on the position.

CB is a strong possibility if they really like what is left but I doubt they find Janoris Jenkins appealing, leaving Josh Johnson and Stephen Gilmore as possibilities.

I suspect they won't reach for either but you never know. I look for them to grab whatever falls into their lap whether it is a CB, LB, DE or OLman. They won't be too picky.

Pretty set at safety? Amari Spievey is ******* abysmal.

Prowler
03-14-2012, 10:11 PM
It'll be pure BPA at a position besides QB, WR, TE, or DT. Everything else should be open. DE should be a good option because of potential value. Nick Perry or Mercilus could be really good players. Its worked out pretty well for the Giants.

Iamcanadian
03-16-2012, 10:16 PM
The reason I mention DE isn't about Avril, it is about the play of KVB. I noticed in the playoffs that he seemed spent and other teams really took advantage of his play and attacked him sensing a weakness. Just maybe he has lost another step and I don't want to go to another playoffs if he is a real weakness.

Now, there could have been other factors at play, perhaps he was playing with injuries that took a lot away from his performance but I completely trust the Mathew/Schwartz team to make the right decisions, so I won't complain no matter how the draft plays out.

WMD
03-16-2012, 10:36 PM
KVB needs to switch to white contacts.

Maybe This Year Mayhew
03-18-2012, 01:59 PM
The reason I mention DE isn't about Avril, it is about the play of KVB. I noticed in the playoffs that he seemed spent and other teams really took advantage of his play and attacked him sensing a weakness. Just maybe he has lost another step and I don't want to go to another playoffs if he is a real weakness.

Now, there could have been other factors at play, perhaps he was playing with injuries that took a lot away from his performance but I completely trust the Mathew/Schwartz team to make the right decisions, so I won't complain no matter how the draft plays out.

This is KVBs last year and they need to work out a long term deal for Avril before July. Lo Jack is a free agent next year(hopefully they resign him) and Willie Young will be a restricted free agent. Drafting DE at some point may not be a bad idea.

Prowler
03-19-2012, 06:54 PM
DE should have great value at our spot. Why take an inferior corner? Plus it is a premium position.

WMD
03-20-2012, 10:06 AM
I bet we pick a QB in the 5th or 6th Round this year.

mriforgot
03-20-2012, 07:26 PM
I bet we pick a QB in the 5th or 6th Round this year.

I wouldn't mind picking up one of Russell Wilson, Chandler Harnish, or Ryan Lindley around there.

weasel
03-22-2012, 10:04 PM
Nick Foles in the third,

villagewarrior
03-23-2012, 08:43 AM
What are Lions fans thinking about an offensive lineman at 23? Seems like every year they are mocked a tackle, but its been they take the best talent rather than reach for need. Is it realistic that Nick Perry could be the pick, and would that be exciting to you guys?

Prowler
03-23-2012, 11:04 AM
I personally want either Janoris Jenkins, Dre Kirkpatrick, Nick Perry, Whitney Mercilus, or Cordy Glenn.

If one of the tackles fell to us, then it would also be a good pick. We're in a great position to just take best available talent.

Scotty D
03-23-2012, 02:18 PM
What are Lions fans thinking about an offensive lineman at 23? Seems like every year they are mocked a tackle, but its been they take the best talent rather than reach for need. Is it realistic that Nick Perry could be the pick, and would that be exciting to you guys?

Its realistic Nick Perry could be the pick or any DE. Avril is on a one year deal and KVB is getting old. Its looking like the Lions and Avril view his value differently and a long term deal isn't gong to happen. I'd be happy with Perry.

I personally want either Janoris Jenkins, Dre Kirkpatrick, Nick Perry, Whitney Mercilus, or Cordy Glenn.

If one of the tackles fell to us, then it would also be a good pick. We're in a great position to just take best available talent.

Yeah, they aren't really pidgeon holed in to needing to draft one position right now. Just go BPA. I'm not happy with the talent in the secondary though.

Fred Savage
03-23-2012, 06:33 PM
Hope Kirkpatrick falls, otherwise I am all for a DE as mentioned above. Would not be surprised to see the Lions pass on Oline again.

WMD
03-23-2012, 07:04 PM
Let's trade up to #4 for Morris Claiborne. Cleveland is always up for a trade down.. They could then trade up from #23 to make sure they get that Tannehill loser.

Xiomera
03-23-2012, 07:08 PM
Is Claiborne that good? Like #4 pick good?

(I honestly haven't followed the draft much this year.)

Brothgar
03-23-2012, 08:10 PM
Is Claiborne that good? Like #4 pick good?

(I honestly haven't followed the draft much this year.)

You'll have to pick him up at 4 he doesn't get past 6 IMO. But it is too expensive to make that jump and we still have other positions to take care of.

Xiomera
03-23-2012, 08:12 PM
You'll have to pick him up at 4 he doesn't get past 6 IMO. But it is too expensive to make that jump and we still have other positions to take care of.

I know he'll be taken that high. My question was whether he's WORTH that high of a pick. Would he have been a top 10 pick last year, for instance?

Brothgar
03-23-2012, 08:28 PM
I know he'll be taken that high. My question was whether he's WORTH that high of a pick. Would he have been a top 10 pick last year, for instance?

I have him rated lower than Peterson but higher than Hadden.

villagewarrior
03-24-2012, 09:57 AM
Let's trade up to #4 for Morris Claiborne. Cleveland is always up for a trade down.. They could then trade up from #23 to make sure they get that Tannehill loser.

A move like this would definitely require a 1st in next years draft. Personally, I don't think the Lions are just one player away just yet. They should stay put and draft the best players available.

Asteinebach
03-26-2012, 06:59 PM
...They should stay put and draft the best players available.

Agreed. If anything, I'd like to see them move back for value. There's really nobody in round 1 I'd even see as worth drafting. Maybe I'm crazy, but if Barron isn't there, I say move down and grab up LaMichael James and Trumaine Johnson in round 2. That'd be a success in my eyes, especially if they end up adding two solid offensive lineman and maybe a defensive end, later on.

Xiomera
03-26-2012, 07:04 PM
You guys are out-of-your-mind crazy if you think the Lions will draft LaMichael James or any RB in the first two rounds.

Asteinebach
03-26-2012, 07:07 PM
You guys are out-of-your-mind crazy if you think the Lions will draft LaMichael James or any RB in the first two rounds.

http://www.freep.com/article/20120322/SPORTS01/203220411/Free-agent-O-J-Atogwe-says-Saints-Rams-will-be-hurt-by-suspensions

Xiomera
03-26-2012, 07:44 PM
That means nothing to me. I just refuse to believe it will happen.

Brothgar
03-26-2012, 07:46 PM
I see no chance the Lions go RB in the first three rounds let alone the first two.

WMD
03-26-2012, 09:32 PM
I see no chance the Lions go RB in the first three rounds let alone the first two.
We're trading up for Trent Richardson.

Brothgar
03-26-2012, 09:56 PM
We're trading up for Trent Richardson.

I will kick babies. In all honesty the lions are happy with Mikel and Jahvid and I hope we get Kev Smith back too. Although if Pead is around in the later rounds I wouldn't be averse to taking him there.

Prowler
03-27-2012, 09:57 AM
I'd take a look at RB in the 3rd round if James or Pierce were still available. I'm pretty happy with our current roster though.

Maybe This Year Mayhew
03-27-2012, 01:32 PM
Lions re-signed Kevin Smith today. One year deal. Good move and cheap. No way until Round 3 at least for RB. But I do like Pierce too.

Lions also have Joique Bell they picked up late from the Saints last year off waivers. See what he can do. Keiland Williams should be cut after camp this time.

WMD
03-27-2012, 04:08 PM
I'm not really against anything in the draft. I trust Mayhew.

If we draft a RB early, fine. If we draft a QB in the first three rounds, I'll just assume Mayhew got some really bad news from Miss Cleo.

Asteinebach
03-29-2012, 05:19 AM
I trust Mayhew.

Here here!

I've also heard that they may be planning a 3rd-4th round pick for a backup QB? Who do you guys think might be some good candidates in that neighborhood? Personally, I really like Kellen Moore as a backup, as well as Russell Wilson.

Scotty D
03-29-2012, 03:45 PM
I wouldn't use a pick before the 7th on a QB. You can still get potential starters in the 3rd or 4th rounds. I don't think the rest of the roster is filled out enough to draft a QB that early. If Shaun Hill and Stafford are injured just forget about the season. They'll probably bring back Zac Robinson before the season starts.

Maybe This Year Mayhew
03-29-2012, 04:25 PM
I wouldn't use a pick before the 7th on a QB. You can still get potential starters in the 3rd or 4th rounds. I don't think the rest of the roster is filled out enough to draft a QB that early. If Shaun Hill and Stafford are injured just forget about the season. They'll probably bring back Zac Robinson before the season starts.


Round 5 or 7 if a QB is clearly BPA. It would be nice to develop a backup though and later trade him for backs like the Schaub and Kolb situation. Plus Hill won't be around forever on his two year deal. Even Round 4 I wouldn't cry over it. And if he develops from rookie to year 2 we could save on Hills cap number which rises about 1 million into the 3 mil range next year.

Prowler
03-30-2012, 09:25 AM
I actually loved Zac Robinson when he was coming out of college.

I don't really want a backup qb unless its someone like Weeden. I'd be lukewarm on spending a 3rd rounder on him if he were magically still around. It would be a waste, but he would become one of the best backup QBs in the league and a potential Matt Schaub/Flynn in 3 years. I can see some positives in taking him.

Scotty D
03-31-2012, 07:38 PM
Mayhew went to the Alabama pro day. Only one he is planning on attending.

Prowler
03-31-2012, 07:46 PM
Dre slipping? I keep hearing rumors of "best fit at FS'', but I don't buy it.

WMD
03-31-2012, 11:52 PM
Mayhew went to the Alabama pro day. Only one he is planning on attending.
We're trading up for Trent Richardson.

Brothgar
04-01-2012, 12:01 AM
We're trading up for Trent Richardson.

http://i.qkme.me/bos.jpg

WMD
04-01-2012, 12:07 AM
I wouldn't hate it if we did. It's not necessary, but Trent is a sexy beast.

Brothgar
04-01-2012, 12:08 AM
I wouldn't hate it if we did. It's not necessary, but Trent is a sexy beast.

As sexy as he is trading up to the top 10 would cost WAY too much.

Brodeur
04-01-2012, 12:08 AM
http://i.qkme.me/bos.jpg

A Jeff Dunham reference......

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/angry_wolf.jpg

Scotty D
04-01-2012, 12:51 AM
I want Mark Barron. Get the best safety in the draft and forget about filling that need for 5-7 years. Also hearing some Stephen Gilmore, CB - South Carolina buzz.

WMD
04-01-2012, 01:49 AM
I want Mark Barron. Get the best safety in the draft and forget about filling that need for 5-7 years. Also hearing some Stephen Gilmore, CB - South Carolina buzz.
I have extensively scouted/watched a 5 minute Youtube video of Stephon Gilmore and wasn't that impressed. He didn't seem to make many plays, just seemed like a kinda solid tackler.. Doesn't seem like someone to get that excited about.

Scotty D
04-01-2012, 03:32 AM
I have extensively scouted/watched a 5 minute Youtube video of Stephon Gilmore and wasn't that impressed. He didn't seem to make many plays, just seemed like a kinda solid tackler.. Doesn't seem like someone to get that excited about.

The front office loves CBs who can tackle. That is why they are so high on Lacy and Berry. I just want a CB with some talent. They ignore the position every off-season.

Fred Savage
04-01-2012, 09:13 AM
I have extensively scouted/watched a 5 minute Youtube video of Stephon Gilmore and wasn't that impressed. He didn't seem to make many plays, just seemed like a kinda solid tackler.. Doesn't seem like someone to get that excited about.

I agree with you. I came away with the same impression with Gilmore from my youtube scouting/watching SC games.

I am 100% on the Dre Kirkpatrick bandwagon, have been for some time. He can come up and tackle, read plays, big, athletic. I think he can/will be a great FS at worst. Played in tons of huge games against elite competition, coached by Saban, I don't understand the pre-draft process where guys dart up or down the board for no apparent reason except boredom on the part of draft people. Kirkpatrick is a player, huge fan of his, will be just as excited if we snag him as I was last year for Fairley. Hopefully he slips to us, if he doesn't I hope we can move up and grab him at a fair price.

Maybe This Year Mayhew
04-02-2012, 01:06 PM
LeShoure just arraigned for marijuana possession. That sucks. Suspension for at least 2 games IMO

Prowler
04-02-2012, 01:51 PM
People born in prison should get an automatic get out of jail free card for little stuff like that. Time already served.

Asteinebach
04-03-2012, 08:41 AM
I actually loved Zac Robinson when he was coming out of college.

I don't really want a backup qb unless its someone like Weeden. I'd be lukewarm on spending a 3rd rounder on him if he were magically still around. It would be a waste, but he would become one of the best backup QBs in the league and a potential Matt Schaub/Flynn in 3 years. I can see some positives in taking him.

I think the key to getting the right QB for the Lions later on in the draft is to find a guy that just doesn't translate well at the next level, but has that name-brand recognition, so to speak.

That's why I like Wilson, Clemmons, and Case Keenum. All of these guys have names that NFL teams know about, but are considered too raw or not athletic enough to be a starter right away. That would allow the Lions to bring him in, cultivate his skills a bit, let him get a few starts in place of an injured Matt Stafford, and trade him off for a King's Ransom like Philly did with Kevin Kolb.

Asteinebach
04-03-2012, 08:43 AM
We're trading up for Trent Richardson.

In a recent development...

Maybe This Year Mayhew
04-03-2012, 03:40 PM
Fairley busted for weed today.

http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2012/04/former_auburn_lineman_nick_fai.html

I'm going to go punt a kitten now

Scotty D
04-03-2012, 03:44 PM
what the ****

Prowler
04-03-2012, 03:48 PM
Write your congressman. This war on drugs is now impacting the Detroit Lions. Stop the hate.

Asteinebach
04-03-2012, 03:51 PM
We're the new Cincinnati Bengals!!! Sweet, last year it was injuries this year it'll be suspensions.

:lynched:

gpngc
04-04-2012, 01:00 AM
Does the recent news affect their draft plans? Jenkins, Kirkpatrick, and Mike Adams all have off-field red flags...

Asteinebach
04-04-2012, 07:55 AM
Does the recent news affect their draft plans? Jenkins, Kirkpatrick, and Mike Adams all have off-field red flags...

To a limited extent, I think so. Obviously, with these kind of issues already present on the team, the last thing you need is your beat writers criticizing you because you took a guy like Janoris Jenkins. The more I think about it, the more I could really see the Lions taking a long hard look at Josh Robinson, Harrison Smith, and Jonathon Martin in the first round.

Prowler
04-04-2012, 08:05 AM
I think we're moving up or down this year. Most likely, we're moving up a few spots. We're going to be vultures and will take either Dre, Janoris, or Martin. I would prefer to include a couple DEs and guards in there too and just take whoever is sitting at our pick, but I see us moving up.

I personally am ok with Janoris right now and would understand stretching a bit for Adams if we stayed put.

Fred Savage
04-04-2012, 11:07 AM
I think we're moving up or down this year. Most likely, we're moving up a few spots. We're going to be vultures and will take either Dre, Janoris, or Martin. I would prefer to include a couple DEs and guards in there too and just take whoever is sitting at our pick, but I see us moving up.

I personally am ok with Janoris right now and would understand stretching a bit for Adams if we stayed put.

Think we have our eyes on Kirkpatrick.

Asteinebach
04-07-2012, 09:45 AM
I'd really prefer to skip on CB in the first round altogether. There's some really solid guys that can be gotten in round 2. How about Peter Konz in round one? Or possibly Cordy Glenn? Even Mark Barron could be a possibility. Whoever they take, I just hope it's not someone with character concerns. Josh Robinson, Trumaine Johnson, Brandon Boykin, and Alfonzo Dennard would all be great contributors in round 2.