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TNewFan41
03-23-2007, 02:35 PM
Per ESPN bottom line.

Thoughts?

Modano
03-23-2007, 02:42 PM
I like it. Now CB, OL or WR at #22. Right now, I want Joe Staley.

dc4life
03-23-2007, 02:52 PM
I like it. Now CB, OL or WR at #22. Right now, I want Joe Staley.


Agreed! or trade down for a DT. But we might be able to get Meachem at 22. Honestly, I think we'll get the BPA which falls under the positions needed listed above.

TheFan0520
03-23-2007, 02:58 PM
Only a one-year deal worth $2.5 mil according to NFL.com.

D-Unit
03-23-2007, 03:04 PM
WOW. JUST WOW. Mixed feelings, but I'm excited. Opens up our draft options BIG TIME!

dc4life
03-23-2007, 03:06 PM
Only a one-year deal worth $2.5 mil according to NFL.com.

Can you link me the contract details? I can't seem to find it.

reigle9
03-23-2007, 03:06 PM
Only a one-year deal worth $2.5 mil according to NFL.com.

I threw up when I saw this thread, but I guess I can deal with that. Hope we still take Reggie if we can, but it looks like another year of giving up the deep ball.

Maybe next year.

TheFan0520
03-23-2007, 03:10 PM
http://www.nfl.com/nflnetwork/story/10033511

dc4life
03-23-2007, 03:15 PM
http://www.nfl.com/nflnetwork/story/10033511


I see it now.

Ward
03-23-2007, 03:24 PM
WOW. JUST WOW. Mixed feelings, but I'm excited. Opens up our draft options BIG TIME!

Yep, BPA. Isn't a single position a rookie could come in and start unless an injury happened.

D-Unit
03-23-2007, 03:35 PM
Yep, BPA. Isn't a single position a rookie could come in and start unless an injury happened.
I actually had not thought about that. WOW.

Time to make our move to trade up for Branch.

TNewFan41
03-23-2007, 03:46 PM
Thank you. Now everyone is seeing the light! WE HAVE NO HOLES!

Super Bowl bound baby.

Oh and it is only a 1 year deal, we could still draft Nelson...

Staubach12
03-23-2007, 03:48 PM
Wow. This is spectacular. I'm very excited.

robert_in_bigd
03-23-2007, 04:07 PM
Not too happy but one year. Who cares.

22,895
03-23-2007, 04:11 PM
It's a good move. At #22 we still can draft somebody like Nelson (if avaliable) because they can learn behind him. I really didn't want to have another rookie start at S because Watkins was bad last year. Now this is perfect and very cheaply too.

robert_in_bigd
03-23-2007, 04:22 PM
It's a good move. At #22 we still can draft somebody like Nelson (if avaliable) because they can learn behind him. I really didn't want to have another rookie start at S because Watkins was bad last year. Now this is perfect and very cheaply too.

Watkins made mistakes but was not consistently poor. Roy was just bad last year and was consistently poor.

I just don't think this solves much other than Jerry signing a boy from his alma mater.

TNewFan41
03-23-2007, 04:29 PM
Watkins is our future at FS. Can't you read the writing on the wall? Hamlin is just a stop gap this year for Watkins to learn and get confidence, then Watkins comes in and owns.

DMWSackMachine
03-23-2007, 04:36 PM
This is a very, very good move. I was dreading hearing this news earlier, because I thought he would be getting a contract in the 5yr/25m range. But to get a player of his quality for that kind of chump change......just wow. He is a little more of a SS than a FS, but he is a lot better in coverage than some give him credit for. He was playing opposite Michael Boulware for much of his time in Seattle, who is a straight-up in the box safety with very limited coverage skills.

I love it. However, that doesn't mean that it necessarily solves our problems. What it does do is give us a solid, experienced veteran that won't absolutely kill us back there, while also providing an opportunity for Watkins to step up and take over without having a ton of dead weight cap money on the bench.

When I read the headline, I thought "wow, here's our version of Adam Archuleta", because I simply assumed he would get big money. But the paltry sum we paid him is what turns this from a headscratcher to a definite hit.

Excellent move. Props to the Joneses.

cowboyz
03-23-2007, 04:58 PM
just think rocky boiman $1m
$1.75 for fabini
$3m/2 years for keith davis

this looks like a bargain

but can dallas keep 5 safeties on the roster(the tony parrish spot) or is abram elam gone?

Paul
03-23-2007, 05:16 PM
One year deal? I guess it's an audition. So you know he'll play his ass off for a bigger deal. So that pretty much takes care of our BIGGEST needs, so a CB or OLB in the 1st won't bother me much anymore.

TNewFan41
03-23-2007, 06:40 PM
They sure as hell will bother me. Either draft an O-Lineman, still draft reggie nelson, trade up for branch, or trade down for tyler. If we don't do that it would be stupid. Or drafgt Robert Meachem. Henry is now staying at CB, so CB because a 3rd o r 4th round need, and we just draft 2 straight OLB's, were aren't drafting another 1, even if Carp moves inside. Not to mention Burnett.

TNewFan41
03-23-2007, 06:48 PM
Oh and if there was any question, Hamlin will be playing FS:

http://www.dallascowboys.com/multimedia_center.cfm?id=812CB5B9-F832-D195-08600533EB45290C

Jerry states it right in the beginning of the Press Conference.

TNewFan41
03-23-2007, 06:58 PM
Ehhh, in the press conference Jerry said they could sign him to a long term deal after this year, what do you think of that?

D-Unit
03-23-2007, 07:04 PM
Ehhh, in the press conference Jerry said they could sign him to a long term deal after this year, what do you think of that?
That would be ideal since he's the answer for us at FS.

Staubach12
03-23-2007, 07:05 PM
By the way, TNew, Jerry Jones said in this press conference that he sees Ken Hamlin as a long term player on our defense.

reigle9
03-23-2007, 07:12 PM
People are confusing Alan Branch for a NT just because of his weight. There isn't a top replacement for Jason in this Draft, we'll have to wait until next year.

bigmac076
03-23-2007, 07:39 PM
just think rocky boiman $1m
$1.75 for fabini
$3m/2 years for keith davis

this looks like a bargain

but can dallas keep 5 safeties on the roster(the tony parrish spot) or is abram elam gone?
I hope not, I'd rather dump Keith Davis than Elam.

D-Unit
03-23-2007, 09:23 PM
People are confusing Alan Branch for a NT just because of his weight. There isn't a top replacement for Jason in this Draft, we'll have to wait until next year.
I think you might be confused. A NT has to be heavy.

Even Tyler would be a good combo with Ferg and a future replacement.

Burns336
03-23-2007, 09:44 PM
jerry said watkins is the future though, so i'd scratch that nelson pick. lets go CB/OLB!

Paul
03-23-2007, 09:55 PM
Jerry also said Hambrick, Henson and Hutchinson were the answers, and that didn't work out. But Nelson is off the list for me also.

Macarthur
03-23-2007, 09:55 PM
I have to say, I'm really warming to the idea of either DT (preferably trading up for Branch or down for Tank), or if Moss is there, I would be happy with that.

An OLB rotation of Ware, Ellis & Moss paired with an ILB rotation of James, Adoele & Carp would be quite formidable.

D-Unit
03-23-2007, 09:55 PM
Jerry also said Hambrick, Henson and Hutchinson were the answers, and that didn't work out. But Nelson is off the list for me also.
That's false.

Paul
03-23-2007, 09:58 PM
That's false.

So Campo made those calls?

thule
03-23-2007, 09:59 PM
Perfect...I was calling for this for a bit now...great deal dirt cheap...and not tied down. Now if he steps up and plays his heart out...we nail him to a long term deal...if he plays bad or just simply gets outplayed by Watkins he is expendable...and we aren't hurt one bit. Great move...I couldn't be more happy.

LonghornsLegend
03-24-2007, 05:04 AM
i wouldnt be upset with the moss pick at all, id love ross, but henry could play #2 corner this year and we go moss early on....


Jarvis Moss
Aaron Ross
Joe Staley
Robert Meachem



id be happy with any of those picks at 22, all would step in the ideal situation and learn, although id prefer ross, more cover guys back there wont hurt at all...as much as i was for merriweather in the first, i like addressing this need for the value we did, and shows we have faith in watkins to stick around and learn, who may still see the field more then we think

TNewFan41
03-24-2007, 08:07 AM
Aaron Ross is not going to be drafted by the Cowboys. He sucks. Henry is a much better player. Henry will be healthy all year. He was hurt the first 2 years here, so the 3rd time will be the charm. And we don't need a LB, we just drafted 2 first rounders back to back, plus burnett who is a 2nd rounder. The only thing we need on defense is a future NT. We have ALL the players, and will Wade's new schemes that won't hold us back like Parcells, we will have a top 3 defense.

Modano
03-24-2007, 08:14 AM
Aaron Ross is not going to be drafted by the Cowboys. He sucks. Henry is a much better player. Henry will be healthy all year. He was hurt the first 2 years here, so the 3rd time will be the charm. And we don't need a LB, we just drafted 2 first rounders back to back, plus burnett who is a 2nd rounder. The only thing we need on defense is a future NT. We have ALL the players, and will Wade's new schemes that won't hold us back like Parcells, we will have a top 3 defense.

Aaron Ross, the Thorpe award winner, sucks. Uh?

LSUALUM99
03-24-2007, 09:47 AM
Hamlin is way better than anything we currently have at FS. He's cheap, he can cover (although not a great centerfielder). He also has a big hitter reputation. I think he helps the run defense also.

As for what do we draft now. If we don't draft a CB or WR I'll be PISSED OFF.

D-Fence
03-24-2007, 10:10 AM
Maybe it's just me, but I'm worried Hamlin might be a little too much like Roy Williams...I really think for the two of them to work together, we're going to have to get crazy pressure on the QB. I know we've drafted LBs early and often over the last few years, but if Jarvis Moss or Lawrence Timmons are available, I think we've gotta take that chance to upgrade the pass rush and run with it. Move Carp inside. I think he'd play better inside anyways.

TNewFan41
03-24-2007, 10:13 AM
I will glady take a WR in the 1st, but please no CB.

Oh and Modano, Troy Smith won the Hiesman and he sucks. Ross isn't even a top 3 CB. He is a good #2 at best in the NFL, you don't take that in the 1st round. If you all want a CB to replace Henry, we draft him in the 3rd or 4th, because Newman has the #1 spot locked up for atleast 5 more years, so if you draft a first round CB it is stupid. You can get a quality #2 like Jonathan Wade in the 3rd round. Plus Henry is one of the best #2's in the league anyway when healthy, so why draft a CB.

reigle9
03-24-2007, 10:40 AM
I think you might be confused. A NT has to be heavy.

Even Tyler would be a good combo with Ferg and a future replacement.

Oh geez, yes I'm quite aware that a NT has to be heavy. Just because of what he weighs, doesn't make him a NT.

JJJ888
03-24-2007, 12:52 PM
Maybe it's just me, but I'm worried Hamlin might be a little too much like Roy Williams...I really think for the two of them to work together, we're going to have to get crazy pressure on the QB. I know we've drafted LBs early and often over the last few years, but if Jarvis Moss or Lawrence Timmons are available, I think we've gotta take that chance to upgrade the pass rush and run with it. Move Carp inside. I think he'd play better inside anyways.

Please explain why Carpenter would be better suited inside. A number of you seem to hold this opinion and I just can't understand why. Is it because Bill moved him inside for part of the preseason last year?

D-Unit
03-24-2007, 12:53 PM
Oh geez, yes I'm quite aware that a NT has to be heavy. Just because of what he weighs, doesn't make him a NT.
What makes you think he couldn't do the job?

D-Unit
03-24-2007, 12:55 PM
Maybe it's just me, but I'm worried Hamlin might be a little too much like Roy Williams...I really think for the two of them to work together, we're going to have to get crazy pressure on the QB. I know we've drafted LBs early and often over the last few years, but if Jarvis Moss or Lawrence Timmons are available, I think we've gotta take that chance to upgrade the pass rush and run with it. Move Carp inside. I think he'd play better inside anyways.
Timmons doesn't fit well. He's a 4-3 LB. Moss would be intriguing. I agree with you on Carp.

D-Unit
03-24-2007, 12:58 PM
So Campo made those calls?
No one can honestly know who made the calls. ...but the thing I disagree with you on is that you said Jerry said they were the "answers". He may have brought them to the team, but I don't think he ever said they were "the answers". Yes, he wanted to see what they could do, so they were given a chance. But "answers"? I don't think he said they were.

D-Fence
03-24-2007, 01:22 PM
Please explain why Carpenter would be better suited inside. A number of you seem to hold this opinion and I just can't understand why. Is it because Bill moved him inside for part of the preseason last year?

To me, he just never proved to be a great pass rusher off the edge. He plays real strong, and he's alot better run-stuffer than he is coming off the edge. Put him inside, let him play into his strengths rather than trying to make him something he's never really been. He played OLB at OSU, but I'd rather have another big time passer coming off the edge opposite Ware than I would someone who lacks explosiveness off the snap and doesn't consistently get around the corner. To me, teams will continue to shift all attention in Ware's direction if Bobby is outside.

As for Timmons not fitting, they play some 3-4 at Florida State. If I remember what I read correctly, Timmons told Cowboys scouts that although he wasn't extremely familiar with all the complexities of the schemes, he had experience in the 3-4 and knew the basics of how the defense runs. He's a freak athlete, and sometimes he'll be able to excel just off of that. He's raw, so the Boys could bring him in and mold him as they see fit. Another benefit is he's pretty solid in coverage and would be able to match up well if manned up on TEs/Slot receivers. I like Moss more, and think he'd be the better fit, but I still think Timmons would be a good addition.

JJJ888
03-24-2007, 02:22 PM
To me, he just never proved to be a great pass rusher off the edge. He plays real strong, and he's alot better run-stuffer than he is coming off the edge. Put him inside, let him play into his strengths rather than trying to make him something he's never really been. He played OLB at OSU, but I'd rather have another big time passer coming off the edge opposite Ware than I would someone who lacks explosiveness off the snap and doesn't consistently get around the corner. To me, teams will continue to shift all attention in Ware's direction if Bobby is outside.

As for Timmons not fitting, they play some 3-4 at Florida State. If I remember what I read correctly, Timmons told Cowboys scouts that although he wasn't extremely familiar with all the complexities of the schemes, he had experience in the 3-4 and knew the basics of how the defense runs. He's a freak athlete, and sometimes he'll be able to excel just off of that. He's raw, so the Boys could bring him in and mold him as they see fit. Another benefit is he's pretty solid in coverage and would be able to match up well if manned up on TEs/Slot receivers. I like Moss more, and think he'd be the better fit, but I still think Timmons would be a good addition.

The bolded and underlined areas are the problems I have with your reasoning. Here's why:

Statement #1--In his senior year at Ohio State, Carpenter notched 8 sacks, playing outside linebacker and defensive end in the nickel.

2--What strengths exactly make him a better player inside? His ability to stop the run? You need run-stoppers outside too. His ability in coverage? Remember he was an outside linebacker only on first and 2nd downs in coverage. On the major coverage downs he moved to the nickel. Granted he did play some nickel this year, but did he really excel there either? Anyways, outside linebackers need to be able to cover too, and can you really expect another converted defensive end to do that effectively in his first season?

3--Same point as #1. Experience at defensive end.

4--Don't forget about Greg Ellis...in my mind he is certainly a guy who can provide the pass-rush you need out of the base 3-4, and it looks like he is going to be ready for the season. A pair of Ellis and Carpenter could be very solid for different situations in the base defense.

5--Timmons would bring about the same amount of experience in the 3-4 as Carpenter did last year...as of right now Carpenter is more progressed in the scheme. And as to his being a freak athlete, he ran .1 faster than Carpenter in the 40 and Carpenter was recuperating from a broken leg when he ran.

6--If Timmons is so raw, how can you expect him to come in and really contribute right away?

Burns336
03-24-2007, 02:36 PM
Aaron Ross is not going to be drafted by the Cowboys. He sucks. Henry is a much better player. Henry will be healthy all year. He was hurt the first 2 years here, so the 3rd time will be the charm. And we don't need a LB, we just drafted 2 first rounders back to back, plus burnett who is a 2nd rounder. The only thing we need on defense is a future NT. We have ALL the players, and will Wade's new schemes that won't hold us back like Parcells, we will have a top 3 defense.

I cant believe people let this fly. its disgusting. "Henry will be healthy all year, third time is a charm" are you fu*king kidding me? what kind of argument is that? We dont need a LB? why not? Who knows how ellis will recover, where carp will be playing, and if ware has improved on his pass rush skills? All we need is a future NT? yeah that and at least 2 CB's for the future with old ass henry and glenn.

you're an idiot.

TNewFan41
03-24-2007, 03:04 PM
I was just messing around, but ok. LMAO. I forgot this was boot camp.....

And anyway, we can draft a CB in the 3rd or 4th if you want them to be a #2, you don't draft someone in the first, or even second round to be a #2. Is it that hard to get through your thick skull? Oh and as of right now, Henry is healthy, and we have one of the best CB tandems in the league. And you can pick up a #3 CB on the street. You want to make your first round pick a #3 CB. LMAO.

Um no, your the idiot.

LSUALUM99
03-24-2007, 04:15 PM
Quick question TNEW, would you draft Champ Bailey at 22 if he were there?

Is there some fundamental reason you think that you can't have two good #1 CB's on the field at the same time?

TNewFan41
03-24-2007, 04:29 PM
We already do. Anthony Henry is a GOOD CB. Oh and you never know if the CB will be a bust or a pro-bowler, so that Champ bailey question is completely irrelevant.

Why do we need a CB? It should be a 2nd day need at best. If anything the 3rd round. We have our #1 CB locked up for a long time. Newman is turning 29 but that doesn't mean anything, he has atleast 5-6 years of his prime left. And Henry is one of the best #2's in the league when healthy. If you want to get some insurance, you can get that in the 3rd or 4th round. Maybe Jonathan Wade. But you don't spend your 1st rounder who has a chance to be your #3 CB. Um, no thank you.

So please LSU, how am I wrong?

thule
03-24-2007, 06:43 PM
We already do. Anthony Henry is a GOOD CB. Oh and you never know if the CB will be a bust or a pro-bowler, so that Champ bailey question is completely irrelevant.

Why do we need a CB? It should be a 2nd day need at best. If anything the 3rd round. We have our #1 CB locked up for a long time. Newman is turning 29 but that doesn't mean anything, he has atleast 5-6 years of his prime left. And Henry is one of the best #2's in the league when healthy. If you want to get some insurance, you can get that in the 3rd or 4th round. Maybe Jonathan Wade. But you don't spend your 1st rounder who has a chance to be your #3 CB. Um, no thank you.

So please LSU, how am I wrong?

Oh really...exactly how long is Newman locked up for...last I heard he is targeted to be a FA in 2008! Once again great post man using lots of true facts.

jetBLACK08
03-24-2007, 06:47 PM
okay TNEW
Who do you want the Boys to draft and why? Go.

MeEtMeAtTheStAr
03-24-2007, 07:49 PM
I think this is our best pick up of the whole off-season so far.

LSUALUM99
03-24-2007, 08:21 PM
TNew,

You never know if ANY player will be good or a bust. No player is a guarantee. My question was legitimate. If you knew you could have Champ Bailey at 22 would you draft him?

What is the fundamental problem with having two #1 CB's on the field at the same time?

Burns336
03-24-2007, 09:37 PM
I was just messing around, but ok. LMAO. I forgot this was boot camp.....

And anyway, we can draft a CB in the 3rd or 4th if you want them to be a #2, you don't draft someone in the first, or even second round to be a #2. Is it that hard to get through your thick skull? Oh and as of right now, Henry is healthy, and we have one of the best CB tandems in the league. And you can pick up a #3 CB on the street. You want to make your first round pick a #3 CB. LMAO.

Um no, your the idiot.

you're a complete moron. Why do you think because we draft a CB, that the CB has be be a #2. Who is number 1 ellis or ware? Williams or hamlin? Canty or spears? 2 corners are on the field at the same time and im tired of having henry either get burned on a double move or on the injured list. He really hasnt earned the money we've payed him up to this point. Aside from that, he is only getting older and Glenn is almost done too. Plus since when is henry one of the best cb's in the league. He is above average at best.

You're a huge dumb as.s for not wanted 2 shut down corners as opposed to one. just because your man crush newman is on the field doesnt mean we cant have another number 1 corner you idiot.

Number 1 refers to the caliber of the player, not the spot on the team. for example reggie wayne and marvin harrison are both #1recievers. Anquan Blodin and Larry Fitzgerald are both #1 recievers! do you understand that you uneducated re.tard

will one of the mods please RE-BAN this moron.

TNewFan41
03-24-2007, 09:42 PM
Newman will be locked up long term. There is no question Jerry signs him.

Anyway, LMAO, your the moron Burns.

Explain to we why we should draft a CB? Even though we have one of the best in the league for plenty of years to come, and a good #2. And if you want a back-up plan, how bout 3rd or 4th round? So please, explain. Harrison and Wayne are 1 lucky case. YOu have #2 CBs go on #2 WRs. But thanks for trying, maybe next time.

Oh and whoever asked we who I want, I want a WR. I don't want WR to turn into QB liek it did when Aikman left. Meachem would be nice.

Burns336
03-24-2007, 09:51 PM
Newman will be locked up long term. There is no question Jerry signs him.

Anyway, LMAO, your the moron Burns.

Explain to we why we should draft a CB? Even though we have one of the best in the league for plenty of years to come, and a good #2. And if you want a back-up plan, how bout 3rd or 4th round? So please, explain. Harrison and Wayne are 1 lucky case. YOu have #2 CBs go on #2 WRs. But thanks for trying, maybe next time.

Oh and whoever asked we who I want, I want a WR. I don't want WR to turn into QB liek it did when Aikman left. Meachem would be nice.

a 3rd or 4th rounder would either be nate jones or jacque reeves? The point of drafting a corner in the first round would be to upgrade our WEAK secondary on our WEAK defense that cost of the division title.

i dont even know why im trying to explain to you that there can be 2 #1 caliber cb's starting on a team because the idea seems to simply fly over your head. Its as if your saying a secondary made up of champ and newman isnt possible because they are both top tier cbs? Its a completely idiotic statement.

But hey, i see where you are going, isntead of ungrading a defense that just about threw away the season last year and a secondary that was the laughing stock of the league for giving up the deep ball, you would like to adress what jerry jones called one of our "deepest" positions in the first round and pay a guy a ton of money who isnt even going to see the field? sounds great tnew, really it does.

My idea of getting a corner who could instantly play in the nickle and probably unseat henry (maybe not because of his contract) is completely off base though right? and even if we didnt get a corner, someone like charles johnson, who would also actually step onto the field, would be a good choice in the first.

youre a dipsh.it, go beat off to another tnewman picture

jetBLACK08
03-24-2007, 09:52 PM
Henry is a solid #2 CB but not an excellent one. He is injure prone and lacks top-notch speed. Two things very important to have to be a really corner. Henry gave away too many passes and he was primarily picked regularly. Glenn is actually a really good CB. He can start in other teams, but he has been lucky with injuries and He is getting up there in age. He can breakdown any given moment. So Who is after Glenn? Jones? Reeves? I dont trust these guys in the nickel. And, just like teh guy above me said, Our defense was completely dismantled towards the end of the season. KITNA had a really good day against our so callled amazing defense. I dont necessarily say that we draft a CB in the first. We draft the BPA in the categories we a needing.

dc4life
03-24-2007, 11:48 PM
I gotta agree with everyone else. If the best player available at 22 is a CB, I say we take him. Henry has been battling some nagging injuries in the past couple of years. Those are VERY bad signs for an aging corner.

I'm not worried about Newman getting hurt while playing CB because -
1. He's physically gifted.
2. He manages to keep himself in tip-top-shape because he is a workout warrior in the weight room. (He's ALWAYS well conditioned)
3. Never had any serious injuries in his career, keeping him out multiple games at a time.


Newman only scares me when he plays punt returner. I think he's too valuable of an asset to lose.

Aaron Glenn is a very good nickelback. But you have to remember, he's not in on many plays. This is why we should draft a Corner to develope. Glenn won't be there next season.

LonghornsLegend
03-25-2007, 02:56 AM
Newman will be locked up long term. There is no question Jerry signs him.

Anyway, LMAO, your the moron Burns.

Explain to we why we should draft a CB? Even though we have one of the best in the league for plenty of years to come, and a good #2. And if you want a back-up plan, how bout 3rd or 4th round? So please, explain. Harrison and Wayne are 1 lucky case. YOu have #2 CBs go on #2 WRs. But thanks for trying, maybe next time.

Oh and whoever asked we who I want, I want a WR. I don't want WR to turn into QB liek it did when Aikman left. Meachem would be nice.


your argument is to not draft a CB rd 1 because he will be a #3, and thats moronic in your own words....


yet you turn around and say you want to draft a WR rd 1, who regardless of who it is, will probably end up 4th on the depth chart, so that makes more sense to you? we are just as old at both positions, and crayton looks every bit talented to start when glenn or owens leaves first, so that would mean one other WR slot to fill for the future....


but the reason you dont want a CB, makes absolutely no sense when you turn around and say take WR, who would be further down on the depth chart then a CB would

TNewFan41
03-25-2007, 07:01 AM
Actually Burns, Jones was a 6th rounder, and Reeves was a 7th rounder, just to inform you MR. Educated. If we drafted a 3rd or 4th rounder they would be ALOT better.

#2 CBs go against #2 WRs. The Colts and Cards are 2 exceptions. We don't need a first round CB at all, and you want to draft 1 in the first round? We don't need a 1st round CB to go against an old and hurt amani toomer, a horrible Lewis, or Brandon Lloyd. Come on now. If you want a nice back-up who could be a good #2 if henry gets hurt, the 3rd or 4th round would be fine. 1st is just stupid. Oh and Henry has had nagging injuries, not serious ones. We will see how this season goes.

Oh and the points who make about who is the #1 between spears and canty, Hamlin and roy, and ware and ellis are not valid, because they don't match-up with someone every play, and DE's just go against tackles, and ussualy the LT is better.

So tell me again why we should take a CB?

Oh and I want a WR because our #1 is at the end of his career in like 1 or 2 years, while at CB our #1 is fine for atleast 5-6 more years. And henry is fine, plus if you want a future #2, you get that in the 4th round.

Oh and to the guy who said Kitna torched us, that wasn't the secondaries problmen AT ALL. I know Ware had 3.5 sacks, but we still got NO PRESSURE on the QB. No secondary could have survived that slaughtering.

LSUALUM99
03-25-2007, 09:21 AM
Tnew,

You are seriously one of the worst posters on this entire website. It's painful just reading the dribble you post.

Set at CB for 5-6 years? You're absolutely wrong. We aren't set for another GAME much less years. DB's get hurt more than any other position in the NFL (except RB). We have CB's that are old and they play a position where a huge number of injuries happen. Not to mention 5-6 years is a VERY long time.

Your Man-Crush on Newman is laughable. You constistantly want us to draft OL, but by your same logic we should be set at OL for 5-6 years so lets not draft any for at least 3 years.

I could go on and on, but the bottom line is you are a terrible poster and there is a reason that no one thinks you add anything to the site worthwhile.

Paul
03-25-2007, 10:03 AM
The is why the ignore function is nice.

As for CB, for awhile I was against picking one in the 1st because of my extreme worries at FS, RG and NT. But after getting Davis and Hamlin, and no NT worth picking at 22, picking the BPA is the smart choice. And that would probably WR or CB.

TNewFan41
03-25-2007, 10:21 AM
Tnew,

You are seriously one of the worst posters on this entire website. It's painful just reading the dribble you post.

Set at CB for 5-6 years? You're absolutely wrong. We aren't set for another GAME much less years. DB's get hurt more than any other position in the NFL (except RB). We have CB's that are old and they play a position where a huge number of injuries happen. Not to mention 5-6 years is a VERY long time.

Your Man-Crush on Newman is laughable. You constistantly want us to draft OL, but by your same logic we should be set at OL for 5-6 years so lets not draft any for at least 3 years.

I could go on and on, but the bottom line is you are a terrible poster and there is a reason that no one thinks you add anything to the site worthwhile.

Why would you want to draft a CB when we already have 2 good ones?

That is my only question. You draft players in the 1st round to be #1s. What dpn't you get by that?

JJJ888
03-25-2007, 10:26 AM
The is why the ignore function is nice.

As for CB, for awhile I was against picking one in the 1st because of my extreme worries at FS, RG and NT. But after getting Davis and Hamlin, and no NT worth picking at 22, picking the BPA is the smart choice. And that would probably WR or CB.

How does this ignore function work?

TNewFan41
03-25-2007, 10:29 AM
Hey, to all of you guys that think I don't listen to anyone's opinion, why don't you listen to mine before you attack me. I always notice you don't even read my posts or my points and attack me.

My point is, we don't need a CB, but if you want a #2 in case Henry gets hurt, you can get that in the 3rd or 4th round. Why would you draft someone to be a back-up #2 CB for years to come in the first round. WR is another story because they are older, and they age fatser than DBs. Our secondary wasn't the problem, our pass rush was. And it wasn't the players, it was the scheme.

SO can someone tell me in a not attacking way were I am wrong, and I will listen? Thank you.

Paul
03-25-2007, 10:36 AM
How does this ignore function work?

If a user is on your ingore list, whenever they post all you see is collapsed version of a post with there name on it, you don't see what they post at all. But if you do want to see it just click the "view post" option. So the only way I've been seeing Tnew's post lately is when ya'll quote him.

JJJ888
03-25-2007, 10:41 AM
Why would you want to draft a CB when we already have 2 good ones?

That is my only question. You draft players in the 1st round to be #1s. What dpn't you get by that?

Why would you want to draft a WR when we already have 3 good ones? And two others with good potential?

That is my only question. You draft players in the 1st round to be #1s. What don't you get by that?

If you don't have any major needs in the first round, you are afforded the luxury of drafting best player available. In many cases that would be a cornerback or wide receiver, due to the depth at the position. And both of those picks would be able to step in when guys retire or become too old to be effective.

In case you didn't notice, a number of teams have recently spent first round picks on corners who would be a 2nd corner or a nickel corner:

-Washington spends a #9 pick on Carlos Rogers when they already have Shawn Springs
-Seattle spends a first round pick on Kelly Jennings last year when they already have Marcus Trufant and Kelly Herndon
-Carolina spent their second pick last year on Richard Marshall when they already had Ken Lucas and Chris Gamble

Would you like me to list some of the other positions where teams spent top picks on #1 guys when they already had one?
-Chicago spends the #4 pick on Cedric Benson when they already have a proven rusher in Thomas Jones. New Orleans takes Reggie Bush with the #2 pick when they already have Deuce McAllister. And remember, you can only have one running back on the field at a time, whereas you can have up to 4 corners on the field at once.
-Arizona uses the #3 pick on Larry Fitzgerald the year after Anquan Boldin wins rookie of the year and having earlier spent a first round pick on Bryant Johnson
-The Lions spend 3 first round picks on Wide Receivers, including Mike Williams, even after Roy Williams has proved himself worthy as a #1 wide receiver.

TNewFan41
03-25-2007, 11:33 AM
I could live with Chris Houston, but I still wouldn't like it.

Anyway, Glenn and Owens are older than our 2 starting CBs. Plus Crayton is npthing more than a good #3, maybe a solid #2. And please, Austin and Hurd are UFA's, there not gonna be anything special. Austin and good return man, thats about it. Maybe Jamel Richardson could be something, who knows. But I want a sure fire future #1 WR, because I don't want WR to turn into QB liek when Aikman left.

Oh and RBs are way different, they die in like 5 years. DBs have the longest NFL life-span next to QBs.

jetBLACK08
03-25-2007, 12:09 PM
I would recommend drafting a CB instead of a WR in the first because
-I would be okay if Glenn, Crayton and Hurd or Owens, Crayton and Hurd made up our starting lineup at Wideout.
-I would not be okay if Newman, Glenn, and Reeves or N.Jones started at CB.
-I WOULD NOT BE OKAY if HEnry, Glenn, and Butler or Reeves started.
Teams would constantly pick on Henry or the 3rd CB = NOT GOOD.

TNewFan41
03-25-2007, 01:03 PM
I get what your saying, but a secondary lives or dies by its pass rush, and our pass rush will be much improved this season.

jetBLACK08
03-25-2007, 01:16 PM
You can say that but its a generalization.

LSUALUM99
03-25-2007, 01:44 PM
I could live with Chris Houston, but I still wouldn't like it.

Anyway, Glenn and Owens are older than our 2 starting CBs. Plus Crayton is npthing more than a good #3, maybe a solid #2. And please, Austin and Hurd are UFA's, there not gonna be anything special. Austin and good return man, thats about it. Maybe Jamel Richardson could be something, who knows. But I want a sure fire future #1 WR, because I don't want WR to turn into QB liek when Aikman left.

Oh and RBs are way different, they die in like 5 years. DBs have the longest NFL life-span next to QBs.



Name 5 starting CB's that are 34 years of age or older?

Now name 10 starting OL that are the same age?

Notice how many MORE OL there are after that age?

Again, you generalize without ANY idea of wtf you are talking about. CB's have one of the WORST lifespans in the NFL on average.

Burns336
03-25-2007, 01:50 PM
Hey, to all of you guys that think I don't listen to anyone's opinion, why don't you listen to mine before you attack me. I always notice you don't even read my posts or my points and attack me.

My point is, we don't need a CB, but if you want a #2 in case Henry gets hurt, you can get that in the 3rd or 4th round. Why would you draft someone to be a back-up #2 CB for years to come in the first round. WR is another story because they are older, and they age fatser than DBs. Our secondary wasn't the problem, our pass rush was. And it wasn't the players, it was the scheme.

SO can someone tell me in a not attacking way were I am wrong, and I will listen? Thank you.

I dont want another "#2" CB, i want a top tier cb playing opposite newman that has the capability to shut people down and isnt going to get burned and leave our safeties on an island. You say things like "if he is healthy, he is one of the best #2's" --- there is no if in the NFL, there is only what happens and Henry happens to be injured or get burned frequently. plus hes getting old.



your entire argument is based on "finding a good cb later on but our WR superstar has to be in the first" -- well check out this article
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft07/columns/story?columnist=pasquarelli_len&id=2805425

you suck tnew

Paul
03-25-2007, 03:14 PM
I would recommend drafting a CB instead of a WR in the first because
-I would be okay if Glenn, Crayton and Hurd or Owens, Crayton and Hurd made up our starting lineup at Wideout.
-I would not be okay if Newman, Glenn, and Reeves or N.Jones started at CB.
-I WOULD NOT BE OKAY if HEnry, Glenn, and Butler or Reeves started.
Teams would constantly pick on Henry or the 3rd CB = NOT GOOD.

:confused: Uhh What? Maybe it's the wordage, but I didn't quite understand what you were trying to say in the bolded part.

thule
03-25-2007, 03:20 PM
I was reading the Ken Hamlin press conference...and I just realized how right on I was about our FS position.

Wade Phillips: Talent is why he's here, but he has leadership abilities, he's a QB of the defense, he can put people in the right place. When he learns the defense he can help the corners and the other safeties. I had Steve Atwater, another safety from Arkansas, Ken reminds me of Steve, he's physical and a smart player along with a hard worker.

Wade: When you got a guy who can do the things he can do, he's not only a QB on defense, but he's a leader. He'll take the secondary and meet with them at night after practice. We couldn't pass it up. I was surprised he was still available. He fits right in with what we needed.

Thank you Wade Phillips you now have my trust.

jetBLACK08
03-25-2007, 03:44 PM
:confused: Uhh What? Maybe it's the wordage, but I didn't quite understand what you were trying to say in the bolded part.

Im trying to say that if maybe T.Glenn got injured
-I would be fine with Owens, Crayton, Hurd in the starting lineup.
And, if Owens got injured or started misbehaving
-I would also be fine with Glenn, Crayton, and hurd starting.

And, lets say if Newman got injured
-I would not be confident in Henry starting with Glenn, and Reeves.
Lets say if Henry started up with his injuries.
-I would not like our secondary to be Newman, Glenn and Reeves either way. QB would consistenly pick our nickel Corner.

Im trying to say that we have more quality depth in WR than in CB, which entitles us to draft a CB before WR.

TNewFan41
03-25-2007, 04:24 PM
Thank you a Thule. That is why I think our defense is gonna be DOMINANT. Wade is getting get us so much pressure it isn't even gonna be funny. Newman and Henry are gonna be the most known CBs in the league next year.

TNewFan41
03-25-2007, 05:18 PM
Name 5 starting CB's that are 34 years of age or older?

Now name 10 starting OL that are the same age?

Notice how many MORE OL there are after that age?

Again, you generalize without ANY idea of wtf you are talking about. CB's have one of the WORST lifespans in the NFL on average.

So you think Newman and Bailey, both turning 29, are going to suck in 2 years? Yea right. They will both be in the pro-bowl at age 33. Newman is also an exception because he came into the league late, which means he has less wear and tear on his body.

T.O. and Marvin Harrison are best WR's in the game, and they are both turning 34 or older. Ronde Barber (who isn't good, very overrated) made the pro-bowl at 32. Tiki made it at 32 because he had barely any wear and tear because he was a bacl-up until he was 30. It isn't age, its wear and tear. Walt Harris just made the pro-bowl at 32. Jason Taylor just had his best season at 32.

Burns336
03-25-2007, 06:58 PM
So you think Newman and Bailey, both turning 29, are going to suck in 2 years? Yea right. They will both be in the pro-bowl at age 33. Newman is also an exception because he came into the league late, which means he has less wear and tear on his body.

T.O. and Marvin Harrison are best WR's in the game, and they are both turning 34 or older. Ronde Barber (who isn't good, very overrated) made the pro-bowl at 32. Tiki made it at 32 because he had barely any wear and tear because he was a bacl-up until he was 30. It isn't age, its wear and tear. Walt Harris just made the pro-bowl at 32. Jason Taylor just had his best season at 32.

who cares about the pro bowl. id rather have newman and a good starting cb opposite of him with no picks and no pro bowls with good play as opposed to our whole team in the pro bowl with a team like last year.

and thule wasnt coming to your defense. everyone thinks you are a moron.

maybe you should consider not being such a dumb poster all the time.

you suck.

JJJ888
03-25-2007, 08:44 PM
So you think Newman and Bailey, both turning 29, are going to suck in 2 years? Yea right. They will both be in the pro-bowl at age 33. Newman is also an exception because he came into the league late, which means he has less wear and tear on his body.

T.O. and Marvin Harrison are best WR's in the game, and they are both turning 34 or older. Ronde Barber (who isn't good, very overrated) made the pro-bowl at 32. Tiki made it at 32 because he had barely any wear and tear because he was a bacl-up until he was 30. It isn't age, its wear and tear. Walt Harris just made the pro-bowl at 32. Jason Taylor just had his best season at 32.

You're right about wear and tear on cornerbacks, but I don't think it's Newman that we're worried about. Henry has had a history of nagging injuries which may or may not catch up to him soon. And I don't think anyone here is comfortable with Glenn starting anymore, and the wear and tear on his body is even greater than that on Henry's. In my mind, there is less tread on Aaron Glenn's and Anthony Henry's tires than there is on TO's or Terry Glenn's. Furthermore, we have guys who have proven that they have potential backing up our wide receivers, whereas it seems that everyone thinks that Reeves and Jones are not the answers even in the nickel.

Let me say this: one of our top three cornerbacks WILL go down at some point this year, and you won't be comfortable having Reeves or Jones step in the nickel, or Glenn going up against Plaxico Burress all game long.

And you still didn't address my point about the 3 teams spending top picks on cornerbacks recently when they already had good ones.

LSUALUM99
03-25-2007, 09:24 PM
So you think Newman and Bailey, both turning 29, are going to suck in 2 years? Yea right. They will both be in the pro-bowl at age 33. Newman is also an exception because he came into the league late, which means he has less wear and tear on his body.

T.O. and Marvin Harrison are best WR's in the game, and they are both turning 34 or older. Ronde Barber (who isn't good, very overrated) made the pro-bowl at 32. Tiki made it at 32 because he had barely any wear and tear because he was a bacl-up until he was 30. It isn't age, its wear and tear. Walt Harris just made the pro-bowl at 32. Jason Taylor just had his best season at 32.

Awesome, so you effectively didn't answer my question. I asked, and I'll repeat it for your benefit, you to name 5 starting CB's in the league age 34 or older?

Again, you try to use CB's age 32 (which by the way IS the age that Henry will be after this season) to show that they don't slow down. What you have is 2 examples of CB's currently the age of Henry. What you don't have is any clue as to how GENERALIZATIONS are made. You can not GENERALIZE based on a few specific examples. You have GENERALIZE based on the average of players at a position.

It's fair to say that almost to a man, everyone here thinks your opinions are terrible. I'll stop trying to show you the light because you clearly do not have the capacity or the willingness to see it.

jetBLACK08
03-25-2007, 09:47 PM
You're right about wear and tear on cornerbacks, but I don't think it's Newman that we're worried about. Henry has had a history of nagging injuries which may or may not catch up to him soon. And I don't think anyone here is comfortable with Glenn starting anymore, and the wear and tear on his body is even greater than that on Henry's. In my mind, there is less tread on Aaron Glenn's and Anthony Henry's tires than there is on TO's or Terry Glenn's. Furthermore, we have guys who have proven that they have potential backing up our wide receivers, whereas it seems that everyone thinks that Reeves and Jones are not the answers even in the nickel.

Let me say this: one of our top three cornerbacks WILL go down at some point this year, and you won't be comfortable having Reeves or Jones step in the nickel, or Glenn going up against Plaxico Burress all game long.

And you still didn't address my point about the 3 teams spending top picks on cornerbacks recently when they already had good ones.

Thanks. This is exactly what i am talking about. We dont have quality depth in Corner.

Burns336
03-25-2007, 11:43 PM
Awesome, so you effectively didn't answer my question. I asked, and I'll repeat it for your benefit, you to name 5 starting CB's in the league age 34 or older?

Again, you try to use CB's age 32 (which by the way IS the age that Henry will be after this season) to show that they don't slow down. What you have is 2 examples of CB's currently the age of Henry. What you don't have is any clue as to how GENERALIZATIONS are made. You can not GENERALIZE based on a few specific examples. You have GENERALIZE based on the average of players at a position.

It's fair to say that almost to a man, everyone here thinks your opinions are terrible. I'll stop trying to show you the light because you clearly do not have the capacity or the willingness to see it.


.... booya

TNewFan41
03-26-2007, 06:52 AM
Yes, we don't have quality depth, but you don't FREAKIN SPEND A FIRST ROUND PICK ON QUALITY DEPTH! Is that to hard for you gusy to understand? We can get quality depth in the 3rd round or on the 2nd day. I am sorry if that is alittle to much over your heads.

LonghornsLegend
03-26-2007, 09:25 AM
Yes, we don't have quality depth, but you don't FREAKIN SPEND A FIRST ROUND PICK ON QUALITY DEPTH! Is that to hard for you gusy to understand? We can get quality depth in the 3rd round or on the 2nd day. I am sorry if that is alittle to much over your heads.

point people are trying to make, is yes it may be quality depth this year, but it may very well be a starter next year, and the #1 at some point...its not like we would draft a corner to be a backup their entire career...


but once again i ask you,

"but you don't FREAKIN SPEND A FIRST ROUND PICK ON QUALITY DEPTH!"


if you think that, why do you want meachem first rd, where do you think he fits in on our depth chart, is he going to start over crayton, glenn or owens?

mtmock
03-26-2007, 12:59 PM
Yes, we don't have quality depth, but you don't FREAKIN SPEND A FIRST ROUND PICK ON QUALITY DEPTH! Is that to hard for you gusy to understand? We can get quality depth in the 3rd round or on the 2nd day. I am sorry if that is alittle to much over your heads.

ya actually you do spend r.1 on quality depth...no matter who we pick r.1 this year they wont start....carpenter didnt start last year....meachem,jarrett,hoston,revis, it doesnt matter they wouldnt start unless injury struck

D-Unit
03-26-2007, 01:09 PM
TNew is getting owned.

Burns336
03-26-2007, 02:07 PM
TNew is getting owned.

maybe once and for all t new will learn to think before he posts. I know its an abstract concept, but just maybe.

tnew please take into consideration that not one person has you on this so maybe, just maybe, you're wrong.

its gotta be CB/OLB/NT for me now that weve got Hamlin, either way its defense not offense.

cowboyz
03-26-2007, 06:51 PM
i've been looking around the internet. seems like hamlin is more of a hitter than a coverage safety. however this post intrigued me

http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/forum/showpost.php?p=198540&postcount=34

I'm surprised the Chargers haven't made a run at him. We need a new SS after Kiel was cut. Hamlin would fit in at either free or strong because the two positions are basically the same in our defense.

so maybe wade plans to have more 1on1 coverage with roaming safeties?

TNewFan41
03-26-2007, 07:11 PM
I like thw sound of that Cowboyz, more INT opportunities for Newman. :)

Anyway Burns, I know I can be wrong. I just don't see why everyone wants to draft a CB in round 1. YOu draft a round 1 CB to be your #1. But our #1 CB spot is set for mutiple years (4-6 or so). Now if you want to draft a first round CB in 3 years I am fine with that, by why now when we already have one of the best CB in the league, who just entered his prime. I just don't get it.

thule
03-26-2007, 07:22 PM
I like thw sound of that Cowboyz, more INT opportunities for Newman. :)

Anyway Burns, I know I can be wrong. I just don't see why everyone wants to draft a CB in round 1. YOu draft a round 1 CB to be your #1. But our #1 CB spot is set for mutiple years (4-6 or so). Now if you want to draft a first round CB in 3 years I am fine with that, by why now when we already have one of the best CB in the league, who just entered his prime. I just don't get it.

Ok...lets say we draft a guy in the 3rd round...can you name a third round pick in the past 6 years that is a starting #2 corner?

I'll even be nice and give you a list.


2006
3 70 Ashton Youboty CB Ohio State
3 87 David Pittman CB Northwestern State, La.


2005
3 72 Stanley Wilson CB Stanford
3 75 Eric Green CB Virginia Tech
3 76 Karl Paymah CB Washington State
3 80 Dustin Fox CB Ohio State
3 84 Ellis Hobbs CB Iowa State
3 87 Scott Starks CB Wisconsin
3 97 Domonique Foxworth CB Maryland


2004
3 70 Joey Thomas CB Montana State
3 73 Keith Smith CB McNeese State
3 89 Matt Ware CB UCLA
3 92 Rich Gardner CB Penn State


2003
3 82 Ricky Manning CB UCLA
3 90 Donald Strickland CB Colorado
3 92 Julian Battle CB Tennessee


2002
3 68 Andre' Goodman CB South Carolina
3 72 Roosevelt Williams CB Tuskegee
3 75 Derek Ross CB Ohio State
3 79 Rashad Bauman CB Oregon
3 85 Kris Richard CB Southern California


2001
3 67 Tay Cody CB Florida State
3 69 Eric Kelly CB Kentucky
3 78 William James CB Western Illinois
3 86 Brock Williams CB Notre Dame


2000
3 64 Lloyd Harrison CB North Carolina State
3 77 Hank Poteat CB Pittsburgh
3 84 Ben Kelly CB Colorado
3 91 David Macklin CB Penn State


As you can see that list might have 1 or 2 people that are even still in the NFL. For any #2 CB you can find on that list I can find 2 players from a position you want starting in the NFL.

TNewFan41
03-26-2007, 07:57 PM
You are right, I am wrong. But, Anthony Henry was a 4th rounder. Plus, as of right now, we have a top 3 CB tandem. If Henry doesn't get hurt, we have NO need for a CB. All I am saying is, we can get a 3rd rounder to be a SERVICABLE back-up, and atleast a quality #3 if something happens to glenn, or he hits a wall, or he retires.

LonghornsLegend
03-26-2007, 08:27 PM
YouIf Henry doesn't get hurt

why would you want the season to bank on that, knowing its something that has happened before...


if we take insurance for a CB first rd, NEXT year he may end up being the #2, and in 3 years we have a #1 already when Newman is out of his prime, in other words its not a bad decision...you can never have too many good corners, its just a position that would only help you

JJJ888
03-26-2007, 08:28 PM
But you see, TNew, the hit to miss ratio is a lot lower for guys drafted in the third round. As Thule pointed out, how many of those guys are starting in this league right now? Now if you posted a list of guys drafted in the first round in the same time span, I guarantee you would see at least 10 times that number starting.

nrcirc
03-26-2007, 09:07 PM
Another word, no one should draft a CB after the second round. This is way Overkilled

JJJ888
03-26-2007, 09:15 PM
Another word, no one should draft a CB after the second round. This is way Overkilled

Are you trying to say "in other words...this is over-kill"?

If so, then my response is:

There is a much greater failure rate for cornerbacks, as with all positions, beyond the first round. As proved by the statistics thule just posted, finding starting cornerbacks in later rounds is very rare. If you are looking for a quality starting cornerback, your best bet is the first round. Certainly steals can be had in the later rounds, but those are very rare. In a draft with extremely good value at the corner position, and a team without any major needs, cornerback is a position where it makes sense to go looking for your future starter in the first round.

LonghornsLegend
03-26-2007, 09:16 PM
id be happy with houston or ross, and of course washington, but if not one of those 3 id rather take NT or jarvis moss

Burns336
03-26-2007, 11:07 PM
I like thw sound of that Cowboyz, more INT opportunities for Newman. :)

Anyway Burns, I know I can be wrong. I just don't see why everyone wants to draft a CB in round 1. YOu draft a round 1 CB to be your #1. But our #1 CB spot is set for mutiple years (4-6 or so). Now if you want to draft a first round CB in 3 years I am fine with that, by why now when we already have one of the best CB in the league, who just entered his prime. I just don't get it.

ok..... i dont know how many more times i can explain this but the point of drafting him is so we can have 2 top tier cb's instead of one.

let me put it in dummy terms for you. would you rather have 1 newman on the field or 2? I would rather have 2. especially if it is a guy like ross who can return punts and maybe be our pac-man without the off field problems.

i understand newman is a pimp, im not questioning that, or saying that a cb is brought in to replace newman but think of it like this tnew -- opposing teams cant throw to newmans side of the field so they sh*t on henry all game, if we had 2 newmans, where would they throw it? This would take some pressure off of the safeties and help out return game.

JJJ888
03-27-2007, 12:08 PM
Burns--I like it. Nice and simple and well explained. Let me add a little something:

TNew, I ask, what position, drafted in the first round this year, would NOT be a second #1? Certainly not WR.

LSUALUM99
03-27-2007, 01:26 PM
Burns, JJJ888, et al;

What TNew is trying to say is that any position drafted in round 1 would be a backup, BUT that WR is old and as such that position could be a starter next year.

TNew's primary complaint is that the CB position, if drafted in the 1st round would be a back up for at least 4 years so why waste a 1st round draft pick on this.

Now, I CATEGORICALLY disagree with this, but this is his rationale.

TNewFan41
03-27-2007, 01:42 PM
THank you for seeing my point. The only reason I would draft a WR in rd 1 is because he would be our #1 in 2 years, maybe 1 year, but if we drafted a CB he wouldn't be our #1 for 4-5, maybe longer.

Modano
03-27-2007, 02:00 PM
THank you for seeing my point. The only reason I would draft a WR in rd 1 is because he would be our #1 in 2 years, maybe 1 year, but if we drafted a CB he wouldn't be our #1 for 4-5, maybe longer.

Because it's bad to have a great #2 :rolleyes:

TNewFan41
03-27-2007, 02:06 PM
No, but you don't waste a 1st rounder on one.

Oh and another thing, how much money would we be investing in the secondary, ESPECIALLY at CB with another DB? I don't know the exact number, but it is WAY TO MUCH, that for sure.

LSUALUM99
03-27-2007, 02:33 PM
THank you for seeing my point. The only reason I would draft a WR in rd 1 is because he would be our #1 in 2 years, maybe 1 year, but if we drafted a CB he wouldn't be our #1 for 4-5, maybe longer.


I see your point, I disagree with it, but I see it.

Get off the #1 CB for a bit. Let's just concentrate on Henry's position. I think the main issue is that no one here, except you, thinks that Henry is a lock at the position for several years. In fact, my personal belief, is that if we drafted a CB in round 1 he would unseat Henry by the 2008 season as the starter. Henry would move to the Nickel if still on the team.

Henry hasn't been reliable (he's been hurt both years he's been here), isn't getting younger, and was beaten deep last year when he did play. This by no means gives me confidence in him long term.

Modano
03-27-2007, 02:36 PM
No, but you don't waste a 1st rounder on one.

Oh and another thing, how much money would we be investing in the secondary, ESPECIALLY at CB with another DB? I don't know the exact number, but it is WAY TO MUCH, that for sure.

You can pick Craig Davis, Sidney Rice, Jason Hill in the second round and have a very good #2 WR for years to come. But the value in the first round is CB. You won't find another Houston or Ross in the second round.
How in the hell is a waste another CB who can shut down the #2 receiver on the opposite team?! Henry is always hurt, and Glenn will retire after next season. It's NOT a waste to have two great CBs, it's a GREAT thing. If Newman can lock the #1 CB position for 5 more years (as you said), why don't you want a guy who can play with him for years to come?

Burns336
03-27-2007, 02:37 PM
No, but you don't waste a 1st rounder on one.

Oh and another thing, how much money would we be investing in the secondary, ESPECIALLY at CB with another DB? I don't know the exact number, but it is WAY TO MUCH, that for sure.

tnew, my opinion is that a CB would see the field much faster than a WR.

Glenn and Henry are old, and i know you like henry (when healthy) but he hasnt had an injury free season since hes been here and i dont expect that to change as the years add on. I dont think Jones or reeves will materialize into anything and last year when henry went down we were left with those guys in the nickle and it really hurt us.

I think a cb could unseat glenn easily and play in the nickle this year, fill in for henry if injured, and make an instant impact in special teams with the return game so that crayton(who isnt that good at returns anyway) and newman dont have to be back there.

WR on the other hand is someone who is going to have to sit. I dont see a wr unseating crayton as easily as a CB could unseat glenn and if Terry glenn and T.O. keep drinking from the fountain of youth, i think they could have another solid 2 years. Terry is coming off his best season in a long time and owens is coming off leading the leagues recievers in TD's and im fine with that.

Another thing to consider is that guys like sidney rice are falling and may be available with our second rounder and i dont think the difference in value between whatever reciever is available at 22 and someone like sidney rice is as big as the difference between the value of ross/houston/revis and whoever is available at cb in the second. IMO its a much bigger gap in talent.

I know ESPN doesnt mean anything to anyone on this board either, but if you read the article i posted before, it speaks great values about the risk/reward involved with recievers -- especially in the first round. The article goes on to say that reciever is actually one of the positions that where great value can be found later on in the draft.

if we are considering BPA, time it will take for the player to make an impact, and value I believe that CB provides the best addition for our team.

If it isnt CB i would also rather have a speed rush guy who could play on special teams and work in on an LB rotation. Another thing to consider is that we dont know how ellis is going to recover so this would be good insurance for that as well.

LSUALUM99
03-27-2007, 02:43 PM
No, but you don't waste a 1st rounder on one.

Oh and another thing, how much money would we be investing in the secondary, ESPECIALLY at CB with another DB? I don't know the exact number, but it is WAY TO MUCH, that for sure.

Ok, also, you are looking at this wrong.

Whomever we draft at #22 is going to cost us the same amount of money. That player's contract is dictated by the position they are drafted at. So, whether we spend that pick on a CB, OL, WR, TE, RB, QB, DE, LB, S or K, it's irrelavent.

The key is how much VALUE do you get for that money. Ok, so how do you define value?

I define VALUE as the amount of contribution that player gives to your team for the money spent. So, how do you define contribution? I'd say, number of plays played is a good indication. So, in that instance you should draft a player that plays the most plays possible to get the most value possible for the money spent.

IF you draft a CB, and you get one like Revis or Ross that returns kicks you get contribution. If that CB plays as a Gunner you get value. If that player plays on nickel and dime packages you get value.

My argument is that you get far more value than say at WR where the player won't even see the field but very rarely. DJ, BOWE, etc most of them don't even offer PR/KR capability. Again, you lower the value by drafting them instead of a CB that returns kicks.

OL - well they won't see the field at all and will likely not see more than 5 - 8 plays a game if they are even active (you have to activate only 7 OL during the game, so one has to be a LT capable player and one has to be a C capable player, neither of which Blalock would be).

This is also the reason that I was in favor of CB instead of FS at 22 before the Hamlin signing.

D-Unit
03-27-2007, 02:50 PM
This is also the reason that I was in favor of CB instead of FS at 22 before the Hamlin signing.
Had we not signed Hamlin, and drafted a FS in round 1, that guy most likely would've received much more playing time over the Watkins/Davis... and thus, more playing time than a CB who wouldn't have started over Newman/Henry.

...and if that safety was Nelson, then he'd still have the edge on special teams playing time since Nelson is a returner and a good open field tackler as well.

I still don't get the idea of selecting a CB instead of a FS prior to the Hamlin signing. But that's all moot now. I said I would quit the Nelson talk if we signed Hamlin. At the time I said that I really thought Hamlin was not coming here. Didn't think we even had a chance. So interesting how things quickly develop.

LSUALUM99
03-27-2007, 02:54 PM
D-Unit, that's possible. And in that case I wouldn't be opposed to it for that reason. I would be opposed to it, not for monetary reasons, but for the fact that I think Nelson is overrated and the difference between a 1st round FS and a 2nd round FS are much lower.

Again, this is my opinion and may turn out to be a huge oversight, but I just don't see that much difference between Nelson, Merriweather, Griffin, Weddle or (forgot his name) the Wyoming Safety.

JJJ888
03-27-2007, 03:14 PM
I just wanted to say--Awesome posts LSU and D-Unit. Well thought out and explained.

nrcirc
03-27-2007, 03:44 PM
Are you trying to say "in other words...this is over-kill"?

If so, then my response is:

There is a much greater failure rate for cornerbacks, as with all positions, beyond the first round. As proved by the statistics thule just posted, finding starting cornerbacks in later rounds is very rare. If you are looking for a quality starting cornerback, your best bet is the first round. Certainly steals can be had in the later rounds, but those are very rare. In a draft with extremely good value at the corner position, and a team without any major needs, cornerback is a position where it makes sense to go looking for your future starter in the first round.

I agree most of your points and I don't mind use the number 1 on CB. But thule and you sounds like after the first two rounder, the success for CB are very limited. This is only half truth, I have 34% starting CB in 2006 are draft after second round. 40.6% are first and 25% are from the second.

Here is 2006 starter by

thule
03-27-2007, 04:13 PM
I agree most of your points and I don't mind use the number 1 on CB. But thule and you sounds like after the first two rounder, the success for CB are very limited. This is only half truth, I have 34% starting CB in 2006 are draft after second round. 40.6% are first and 25% are from the second.

Here is 2006 starter by

Source?


LSU his name is John Wendling.

TNewFan41
03-27-2007, 05:48 PM
Well all of you who trust ESPN, they just did their "On the Clock" segment for the Cowboys, and they DID NOT mention CB at all. Not once. So the "experts" (yea right) side with me as well. Oh and they had us picking Robert Meachem.

Im_a_Romosexual
03-27-2007, 06:52 PM
also they had us looking at safeties without mentioning Hamlin which makes me wonder when they recorded all the "on the clock" segments

TNewFan41
03-27-2007, 06:57 PM
yes, they were recorded before we signed Hamlin.

Im_a_Romosexual
03-27-2007, 07:03 PM
yeah I figured

Burns336
03-27-2007, 11:31 PM
Well all of you who trust ESPN, they just did their "On the Clock" segment for the Cowboys, and they DID NOT mention CB at all. Not once. So the "experts" (yea right) side with me as well. Oh and they had us picking Robert Meachem.

if you go to the updated on the clock at ESPN.com the experts have us taking revis.

nice try tnew

nrcirc
03-28-2007, 08:29 AM
Source?


LSU his name is John Wendling.

Antrel Rolle 1
Roderick Hood UDFA
DeAngelo Hall 1
Jason Webster 2
Chris McAlister 1
Samari Rolle 2
Terrence McGee 4
Ashton Youboty 3
Chris Gamble 1
Ken Lucas 2
Charles Tillman 2
Nathan Vasher 4
Deltha O'Neal 1
Johnathan Joseph 1
Champ Bailey 1
Dre' Bly 2
Leigh Bodden UDFA
Kenny Wright 4
Terence Newman 1
Anthony Henry 4
Fernando Bryant 1
Travis Fisher 2
Charles Woodson 1
Al Harris 6
Dunta Robinson 1
DeMarcus Faggins 6
Marlin Jackson 1
Jason David 4
Rashean Mathis 2
Brian Williams 4
Ty Law 1
Patrick Surtain 2
Will Allen 1
Andre' Goodman 3
Antoine Winfield 1
Cedric Griffin 2
Mike McKenzie 3
Fred Thomas 2
Asante Samuel 4
Ellis Hobbs 3
Corey Webster 2
Sam Madison 2
Andre Dyson 2
Hank Poteat 3
Nnamdi Asomugha 1
Fabian Washington 1
Lito Sheppard 1
Sheldon Brown 2
Ike Taylor 4
Deshea Townsend 4
Quentin Jammer 1
Drayton Florence 2
Kelly Herndon UDFA
Marcus Trufant 1
Nate Clements 1
Walt Harris 1
Tye Hill 1
Fakhir Brown UDFA
Brian Kelly 2
Ronde Barber 3
Reynaldo Hill 7
Adam Jones 1
Shawn Springs 1
Carlos Rogers 1

dc4life
03-28-2007, 09:32 AM
if you go to the updated on the clock at ESPN.com the experts have us taking revis.

nice try tnew

Yesterday they showed on the clock, and it did say we take Meachem. The on the clock segment on espn's website is the same one. The show was hosted by Kiper, Woodson and Mortensen. It's basically Kiper saying we taking Meachem.

The part you are looking at is on the same page as the clip, but its the pick Todd McShay chose.

"Todd McShay: Instead of reaching for OT Joe Staley here, the Cowboys could get a much better value at CB or WR. Revis' outstanding workout at Pitt's recent pro day solidified his spot in Round 1."

TNewFan41
03-28-2007, 01:37 PM
if you go to the updated on the clock at ESPN.com the experts have us taking revis.

nice try tnew

Actually Burns, that is Todd McShay's updated mock, not the On the Clock pick. They have us picking Meachem, and don't mention a CB at all.

Nice try Burns.

Burns336
03-28-2007, 03:17 PM
well then... mcshay is smarter than the rest of them. because we will not take a wr in the first.

D-Unit
03-28-2007, 03:27 PM
if you go to the updated on the clock at ESPN.com the experts have us taking revis.

nice try tnew
That's different. That's done by Scouts Inc. I believe. I saw the segment. Kiper said he thought we'd take Meachem. I really hate that thought. He's this years Troy Williamson.

dc4life
03-28-2007, 03:34 PM
That's different. That's done by Scouts Inc. I believe. I saw the segment. Kiper said he thought we'd take Meachem. I really hate that thought. He's this years Troy Williamson.

Agreed. Both guys had their stock rise before the draft. Williamson was like a late round draft pick, and Meachem a 2nd rounder. Now all the hype cause of a few good work outs. Both have same speed and same frame almost. Williamson 4.4 speed, Meachem 4.39.

TNewFan41
03-28-2007, 05:21 PM
Dude having a similiar 40 time doesn't mean crap. Troy williamson hands equal having no hands, while Meachem has the best hands in the draft. Meachem had great production in college, Williamson didn't. And Meachem is big, williamson is a twig.

Burns336
03-28-2007, 06:20 PM
i just know that nothing meachem did in college stands out to me whereas guys like CJ, DJ, and even Ginn who I am really not a fan of at all have made a big time impact that made an impression on me. Even lower rated guys like Steve Smith, Anthony Gonzales, and Sidney Rice had more plays that stuck out to me last year than Meachem.

It may be due to the fact that tennesee didn't have a great QB or something like that, but then again, Reggie Ball isn't even going to attempt to play QB at the next level and i personally hate John David Booty (Leinart would have pulled that game out against UCLA, Booty ruined everything!! :( ) That said, I agree that Meachem is being over rated and is turning into this years Williamson.

Id much rather take DJ, Rice, Smith, Bowe, or Gonzo before i took Meachem at 22. Hopefully we dont even WR at 22 though.

Burns336
03-28-2007, 06:22 PM
Dude having a similiar 40 time doesn't mean crap. Troy williamson hands equal having no hands, while Meachem has the best hands in the draft. Meachem had great production in college, Williamson didn't. And Meachem is big, williamson is a twig.

Woah, woah, woah... Im not an expert on Meachem and wish i could have seen more of him to see what all the hype is about, but i dont really buy into him having better hands than Calvin or Dwayne who have both made some of the sickest one-handed grabs I have ever seen. Dont you think with Meachems speed, if he had the best hands in the draft, he would get bumped up to a top 15 prospect? I think you pulled that out of your ass as usual.

TNewFan41
03-28-2007, 07:03 PM
No, just because you have hands doesn't mean you are a top 15 prospect. Rhema McKnight has great hands and he is a 2nd day prospect.

Oh and Burns, you didn't rip apart my post for once, we are making progress!

Burns336
03-28-2007, 09:53 PM
No, just because you have hands doesn't mean you are a top 15 prospect. Rhema McKnight has great hands and he is a 2nd day prospect.

Oh and Burns, you didn't rip apart my post for once, we are making progress!

notice the part where i said "I think you pulled that out of your ass as usual" :D

TNewFan41
03-29-2007, 05:47 AM
Oh, I didn't see that part. Oh well, it wasn't as bad as before.

D-Unit
03-30-2007, 08:30 PM
Pick of Ken "The Hammer" Hamlin.

http://www.seahawks.com/ConPics/Con2889/HamlinHawk0908.jpg

Paul
03-30-2007, 09:03 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GvZ2ILo9b7M

Heres the video of that hit, and some other hits. Gotta see the nasty hit on Garcia. I also like the part with Farve.

D-Unit
03-30-2007, 09:24 PM
Gotta love it! Here's hopin' he's the ANSWER!