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MI_Buckeye
05-07-2011, 03:14 PM
Sorry about the delay the past couple days. I should be getting to the 49ers soon.
Buffalo Bills
Where did the franchise stand before the draft:
Ever since going to four straight Super Bowls and being competitive throughout the 90s, the Buffalo Bills became one of the most frustrating franchises in professional sports. A series of failed coaches and quarterbacks have come in and out of Buffalo faster than a Grand Central Station turnstile, and repeated conservative decision-making had the franchise in a holding pattern of mediocrity for years until the bottom fell out last season.
Once a fixture in the 8-12 range of the first round, bad decisions made by an over-the-hill personnel department – including 92-year-old owner Ralph Wilson – came back to haunt the Bills last season as they put out the worst roster in the NFL, needing to overachieve just to finish 4-12. The team had no shortage of needs and any prospect selected in the first couple rounds, regardless of what position the player played, would probably start.
The first draft of GM Buddy Nix and Head Coach Chan Gailey does not look promising. No. 9 overall pick C.J. Spiller was shockingly unproductive and will probably never be an every-down back. NT Torrell Troup was one of the biggest reaches of the draft. IMO, this is “Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.” Needless to say, this was a critical draft for the new regime. Right now, I don’t think there is a harder team to be a fan of than the Buffalo Bills.
The Pick
Round One, Pick 3: Marcell Dareus, DL, Alabama
Last season, the Bills tried unsuccessfully to transition to a 3-4 defense. This offseason, the Bills announced they were switching to a multiple base front, meaning they needed to add guys capable of playing in both fronts.
Sitting at three, Buffalo could not miss. After Denver strangely took Von Miller instead of the best player at their biggest position of need, the Bills wisely jumped on Dareus. Dareus dominated playing DE in a 3-4 at Alabama, but is 320 pounds actually better suited to play inside in a 4-3. He has rare athleticism for someone with his size and strength.
Dareus is a sincerely humble and self-motivated man who was one of Nick Saban’s favorite players at Bama. He always played his best in the biggest games in college. Although impressive, his stat line is not what it could have been had played in a one-gap scheme. It would be too much to expect him to be as good as King Suh in 2011, but I think the Bills just got the best player on their roster.
Round Two, Pick 34: Aaron Williams, DB, Texas
Rated by some as the best safety in a weak class, this college corner has enough speed and fluidity to stay at the position in college. Williams is strangely physical for a corner, and at 6’1” 210, he can match up with big, possession receivers like intra-divisional Brandon Marshall and Braylon Edwards if he returns.
However, Williams sometimes lacks confidence in coverage and doesn’t take many chances. While his speed and athleticism is good, it is not elite and will likely hold him back from ever being a shutdown corner. The Bills have five DBs that are free agents, so taking a player with Williams’ potential versatility makes a lot of sense.
Round Three, Pick 68: Kelvin Sheppard, ILB, LSU
Sheppard was a fine player at LSU with good instincts in the running game. He has nice tackling range and is an overall good not great athlete.
Sheppard will likely compete with Akin Ayodele, who is on the back end of his career, for the inside job opposite Paul Posluszny. Sheppard is a curious match with Poz, as Poz will likely remain the playmaker inside, and Sheppard is not a thumper and could struggle taking on blocks.
Round Four, Pick 100: Da’Norris Searcy, S, North Carolina
The Bills once again take a defensive back with multiple projections. At close to 225 pounds, Searcy is widely considered a better fit at safety, where he played this past season, but also has experience at corner and could cover the slot and should become a core special teamer. For his size, you’d like to see him play a whole lot more physically.
Round Four, Pick 122 (from Seattle): Chris Hariston, OT, Clemson
Interesting pick since the Bills already seem to have a hoard of RTs with no true LT on the roster. Hairston is huge at 6’7” and over 330 pounds and does most of his damage in the running game with a nasty demeanor and terrific leverage. I think his long-term upside is limited but he will have every chance to beat out Mansfield Wrotto and Ed Wang on the right side, although the Bills would ideally like a LT to come in and force Demetrius Bell to the right.
Round Five, Pick 133: Johnny White, RB, North Carolina
Here is a pick I liked a whole lot more than most experts. White is an athletic thumper who adds depth to a position of relative strength. If Fred Jackson falters or gets hurt, don’t be surprised if White fills in more than adequately as their between-the-tackles runner. Will compete for the short-yardage job immediately.
Round Six, Pick 169: Chris White, ILB, Mississippi State
An aggressive, athletically-limited JUCO transfer who really came on as a senior. He tries hard, but often gets lost in traffic and is weak in coverage, especially when asked to go man-to-man. He will probably not make the team unless he can offer something in special teams.
Round Seven, Pick 206: Justin Rogers, CB, Richmond
A much talked-about small school sleeper, Rogers is smooth and smart with nice ball skills. Although he lacks great size and athleticism, there should be a place for him in nickel and dime packages.
Round Seven, Pick 245: Michael Jasper, DT, Bethel (TN)
I had never heard of him before, but apparently he was once over 400 pounds and played offense. This looks like a throwaway pick. The Bills must really trust their regional scout on this one.
All in all:
Well, if you were looking for the Bills to rock the boat, forget it. This was a typical Bills draft with no trades except for the one made during the season with Seattle for Marshawn Lynch, and few picks that figure to turn this team around.
Yes, I love the Dareus pick, but the Bills left this draft having not addressed QB, LT and pass rusher. In spite of everyone in the world telling them they need to upgrade over Ryan Fitzpatrick, Demetrius Bell and whichever “promising” mid-round draft pick OLB they are trotting out this week.
For an organization that has been in a rut for over ten years, this draft was just more of the same. Wake me up when Buffalo actually does something interesting for a change.
Draft grade: C

Iamcanadian
05-07-2011, 03:41 PM
I don't disagree with the grade so much but the organization is a mess because Ralph Wilson is the cheapest owner in the NFL bar none.
It is no coincidence that Buffalo downfall coincided with FA and with the salary cap era.
He refuses to retain his own high priced FA's by franchising them and I'd bet if you could open his books, you would find that he has never come close to spending to the cap limit.
For a small market team to succeed, the owner and the whole organization has to be well run, in Buffalo, that just isn't the case. I can guarantee you that as long as Ralph owns the team, they will be lucky to see the playoffs again, never mind winning a SB.

stephenson86
05-07-2011, 03:54 PM
Good read but please make the layout more reader friendly.

Roddoliver
05-07-2011, 05:52 PM
How did Dareus "dominate" playing DE in a 3-4 if he only made 30 tackles and 4 sacks? And Alabama used a lot of 4-3. The fact that he is a good DL does not mean he dominated the competition.

onejayhawk
05-07-2011, 06:48 PM
That is hard to read. Ever heard of paragraphs?

Rick Gosselin on the Bills, "A good draft becomes great in the third day. The Bills hit for the cycle on Saturday."

Both White's were very strong value picks. Jonny White is a perfect compliment to CJ Spiller. The thing to like about Chris White is between the ears. If he can make the physical grade, he can run the defense on the field. Scott gave him a mid round grade. Everyone loves the Rogers pick, for good reason, but Jasper is my favorite. The Bills seem to be toying with a multiple front approach. Dareus can play either way, and Jasper is the perfect 20 snap NT.

I thought the Bills did well for their defense last year. This year, those guys will be blooded, and this group is meat on those bones.

J

thenewfeature06
05-07-2011, 06:50 PM
Searcy is most def a better fit at Safety.. he isn't great in coverage but is a good pick for them.

Rabscuttle
05-07-2011, 07:31 PM
This is a team that needs to find a coaching staff that can coach up second and third day talents with upside and a scouting staff to consistently find this talent to get out of the rut they are in. This isn't going to happen until Wilson dies and the team is sold to an ownership group that doesn't see the franchise as the way to keep the brats in Benzes.

DBNYDP
05-07-2011, 08:40 PM
How did Dareus "dominate" playing DE in a 3-4 if he only made 30 tackles and 4 sacks? And Alabama used a lot of 4-3. The fact that he is a good DL does not mean he dominated the competition.
When you look at his film at Alabama you come back pretty impressed. Whether it was as a 3-4 DE or NT, or as a 4-3 DT (which I'd hardly say they used a lot, maybe about 5-6 plays a game on average), he not only was double teamed on every play, he was also triple teamed. That being the case he still defeated those double teams and even triple teams. The fact is that his play was the reason that Alabama's linebackers and safeties could be the playmakers that they were. And in addition, this consistently closed the pocket, forced runners out of their path, and got a great deal of pressure on QB chasing him.

IMO, Marcel Dareus is going to have a huge impact on that Bills defense, and should greatly improve their run defense which was the worst in the league (right behind DENVER).

Roddoliver
05-07-2011, 11:03 PM
Alabama used a lot of 4-3. Not just 5-6 plays. Against Arkansas, they used a 4-man front more than 10 times only in the 1st quarter. And kept doing it for the rest of the game. Against LSU, Alabama D had something like 8 plays with a 4-man front only in the 1st quarter. It was a constant theme.

And Dareus was not double teamed on every play. I'm not saying he isn't good. He is. But personally, I don't think he is a monster game changer as advertised by the media.

To me, Dareus has a serious problem with endurance, stamina. Like other big linemen, he gets tired and disappears. 1 man can block him, he just stays blocked.

If you want an example of what I mean, just watch Auburn's scoring drive that started by the end of the 3rd quarter. Dareus was done, jogging on the field, and did not make any impact to stop that offense.

Here it is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAurJSa_zTg

Cameron Jordan also played 3-4 DE and he made 62 tackled in 2010. Nick Fairley often made big plays when his defense needed him. Even in the 4th quarter. 60 tackles, 24 for loss. That's a lot of plays for someone who was labeled as lazy. I believe Dareus took more plays off than Fairley.

He will have to improve his stamina and play with a better motor late in games to justify that 3rd overall pick.

Abaddon
05-07-2011, 11:30 PM
tl;dr

Also, an eyesore.

Also, isn't there a Bills forum here?

Bills2083
05-08-2011, 07:58 AM
tl;dr

Also, an eyesore.

Also, isn't there a Bills forum here?

Yes, just as there is a forum for every other team that MI_Buckeye has done a draft review for

MI_Buckeye
05-08-2011, 02:10 PM
That is hard to read. Ever heard of paragraphs?

Rick Gosselin on the Bills, "A good draft becomes great in the third day. The Bills hit for the cycle on Saturday."

Both White's were very strong value picks. Jonny White is a perfect compliment to CJ Spiller. The thing to like about Chris White is between the ears. If he can make the physical grade, he can run the defense on the field. Scott gave him a mid round grade. Everyone loves the Rogers pick, for good reason, but Jasper is my favorite. The Bills seem to be toying with a multiple front approach. Dareus can play either way, and Jasper is the perfect 20 snap NT.

I thought the Bills did well for their defense last year. This year, those guys will be blooded, and this group is meat on those bones.

J

I wrote this in Word with paragraphs and bolded subtitles. For some reason, when I transfered it over to this forum, it all got smushed.

Rosebud
05-08-2011, 02:24 PM
Torrell Troup wasn't a reach, he was a guy with a ton of upside who a number of teams would've dropped a second round pick on had Buffalo let him pass them. Kid's really raw, but personally I love the DL they're building, with Dareus and Kyle Williams raw guys like Troup and Carrington should become really effective and give Buffalo a deep and talented 3-4 DL.

That's why I personally don't care that they didn't find an elite edge rusher, they're building up a strong DL to get the most out of the solid guys they do have and are creating an environment for a young stud to come in and beast.

Offensively they do still need a franchise QB and LT, but their interior OL is coming together really nicely and Fitzy will let them be patient with whatever rookie they do bring in next year.

nepg
05-08-2011, 02:25 PM
I flat-out could not read that.

nepg
05-08-2011, 04:11 PM
I like Dareus, but I hate Buffalo's draft.

Buffalo M
05-08-2011, 06:30 PM
Best player in draft - check
Run stuffing ILB (2)- check
Secondary help (3) - check
Freak DT 7th round gamble - check

Good. They didn't bite on all those overrarted QB's like other teams.

roscoesdad27
05-08-2011, 06:44 PM
1) LOVE Dareus, I can see some Ngata in him both in his play and versatility in the hybrid 4-3/3-4. He won't get the #'s Suh gets but he will have a noticeable affect on the rush defense while making the occasional sack or tfl. Going this route could possibly allow Fitzgerald to be more of a game manger and takes q.b. off the immediate need list. A+

2) A. Williams is a solid pick and also very versatile but I woulda took B. Reed for the key 3-4 olb/4-3 r.e. role. This position was a bigger and more immediate need than secondary help + the positional value is higher....both prospects are even overall imho so I give it a C+.

3) I actually think K. Sheppard's best position is at Ted and in the hybrid he woold go to 4-3 slb spot to mix it up. I love the fit and he should further help the abysmal run defense. A

4) LOVE the Hairston pick and feel that he'll be the starter at r.t. by week 4 or so. Moving to more of a power run approach sticking to the theme of the draft, helping Fitzgerald to become a game manager ala Flacco and playing to the defense. A


Overall I'd say an A for sticking to a theme. The only immediate need now is at the 3-4 olb/4-3 r.e. spot.

Halsey
05-09-2011, 02:59 AM
Best player in draft - check
Run stuffing ILB (2)- check
Secondary help (3) - check
Freak DT 7th round gamble - check

Good. They didn't bite on all those overrarted QB's like other teams.

They haven't bitten on a first round QB since 2004. The list of franchise QBs they've passed up in favor of 'teh best playerz' should make Bills' fans ill. They are a case study in why teams should aggressively pursue a franchise QB.

fenikz
05-09-2011, 03:15 AM
if only there were some sort of key on your keyboard that would enter spaces between paragraphs

Buffalo & Denver will forever regret passing on PP

Rosebud
05-09-2011, 03:19 AM
They haven't bitten on a first round QB since 2004. The list of franchise QBs they've passed up in favor of 'teh best playerz' should make Bills' fans ill. They are a case study in why teams should aggressively pursue a franchise QB.

Really? The Bills have passed on Jay Cutler, Matt Leinart, Jimmy Clausen, Brady Quinn, Josh Freeman and Joe Flacco since the 2006 draft. Criticizing them for passing on Cutler/Leinart in 06 is unfair since Losman was still just entering his third season. Clausen and Quinn would have obviously been bad picks and Freeman and Flacco were both super raw prospects that a lot of people were uncertain about coming out. Flacco also came out the summer after Trent Edwards showed a lot of talent, unfortunately he got concussed the very next season, leaving him scared and buffalo QB-less.

So other than Freeman, who again had a lot of blemishes, there really isn't a good case to support your asinine conclusion. Buffalo are a perfect case of how much it sucks to have bad luck with franchise QBs, Losman being tarded, Edwards being castrated, not a team failing to address the position. They've tried to address QB, **** just hasn't worked out for them. Hell they're an example of a team failing to surround a young QB with the proper personnel if anything.

Halsey
05-09-2011, 04:20 AM
The Bills have had more than enough chances to stay where they are and take a QB or trade up for one. They could have traded up for Ben Roethlisberger in 2004, but instead chose to trade up for a second rate QB prospect in JP Losman later in the first round. At least they got 'teh best playerz' Lee Evanz to help out their second rate QB prospect. The NFL isn't fair. Find a franchise QB or lose.

Rosebud
05-09-2011, 04:51 AM
The Bills have had more than enough chances to stay where they are and take a QB or trade up for one. They could have traded up for Ben Roethlisberger in 2004, but instead chose to trade up for a second rate QB prospect in JP Losman later in the first round. At least they got 'teh best playerz' Lee Evanz to help out their second rate QB prospect. The NFL isn't fair. Find a franchise QB or lose.

At least you've conceded your initial statement was ********. Now to this one, who exactly where they going to trade with for Big Ben? They weren't going to take him with a top 8 pick so that lft Jacksonville and Houston, two teams who were really looked in on taking advantage of their high pick to address a position of need with a top tier prospect. Sure in hindsight if you could guarantee that Big Ben would've developed as well in Buffalo as he did in Pittsburgh they should've gave up the moon to make the trade up for him, but at the time he was a kinda stupid QB from a small school with a goofy name.

Plus while Losman wasn't in the Eli/Rivers/Big Ben tier he was a legit first round QB in his own right and I'm not entirely uncertain that if the situations weren't reversed that Big Ben would be the bust and Losman the successful SB winner. Pittsburgh was an absolutely perfect situation for a guy with the question marks that Big Ben had, you wouldn't overwhelm him mentally by pounding the ball, you wouldn't put too much pressure on him while he made the massive adjustment to NFL speed with a great D and he didn't have the pressure to lead at a young age with a veteran locker-room, Buffalo did not have these things.

I still don't get your point, Buffalo knows they need a QB, they've invested a lot in different QBs and trying to find one that can carry their team. Yes they haven't just drafted a QB in the first round of every draft until one worked out, but that's because that lacks a lot of talent at other positions, positions which make it more difficult for a young Franchise QB to develop as evidenced by the castration of Trent Edwards, a once very promising QB who was destroyed by an embarrassingly bad OL to the point where he plays scared. Buffalo spent plenty of time with each of the QBs in this draft and if they had a chance to draft one who they really liked they'd have taken em, but since they didn't get a shot at Newton they didn't find themselves in that situation.

Now personally I am kinda disappointed they didn't draft a QB, but that's because I felt like Locker would've been a perfect fit for them if he had fallen to the second round. But that's not something they had a chance to make happen.

Halsey
05-09-2011, 05:18 AM
Yeah, my initial statement was bs. The Bills have clearly been wise to pass up first round QB prospect after first round QB prospect in favor of a constant state of 'building up the roster.'

Leon Sandcastle
05-09-2011, 09:56 AM
The Bills probably go after Luck, Barkley, Jones, Foles, Cousins or Lindley next year.

Rosebud
05-09-2011, 10:32 AM
Yeah, my initial statement was bs. The Bills have clearly been wise to pass up first round QB prospect after first round QB prospect in favor of a constant state of 'building up the roster.'

No you're statement is BS because the Bills haven't passed on a list of franchise QBs that should make Bills' fans ill, they passed on Freeman, a guy most people on this board disliked as well. Other than that you're suggesting that the Bills should've just drafted Brady Quinn or Jimmy Clausen with nearly top ten picks.

Nor are they a case study in why teams should aggressively pursue a franchise QB seeing as they have aggressively pursued franchise QBs.

Iamcanadian
05-09-2011, 11:05 AM
At least you've conceded your initial statement was ********. Now to this one, who exactly where they going to trade with for Big Ben? They weren't going to take him with a top 8 pick so that lft Jacksonville and Houston, two teams who were really looked in on taking advantage of their high pick to address a position of need with a top tier prospect. Sure in hindsight if you could guarantee that Big Ben would've developed as well in Buffalo as he did in Pittsburgh they should've gave up the moon to make the trade up for him, but at the time he was a kinda stupid QB from a small school with a goofy name.

Plus while Losman wasn't in the Eli/Rivers/Big Ben tier he was a legit first round QB in his own right and I'm not entirely uncertain that if the situations weren't reversed that Big Ben would be the bust and Losman the successful SB winner. Pittsburgh was an absolutely perfect situation for a guy with the question marks that Big Ben had, you wouldn't overwhelm him mentally by pounding the ball, you wouldn't put too much pressure on him while he made the massive adjustment to NFL speed with a great D and he didn't have the pressure to lead at a young age with a veteran locker-room, Buffalo did not have these things.

I still don't get your point, Buffalo knows they need a QB, they've invested a lot in different QBs and trying to find one that can carry their team. Yes they haven't just drafted a QB in the first round of every draft until one worked out, but that's because that lacks a lot of talent at other positions, positions which make it more difficult for a young Franchise QB to develop as evidenced by the castration of Trent Edwards, a once very promising QB who was destroyed by an embarrassingly bad OL to the point where he plays scared. Buffalo spent plenty of time with each of the QBs in this draft and if they had a chance to draft one who they really liked they'd have taken em, but since they didn't get a shot at Newton they didn't find themselves in that situation.

Now personally I am kinda disappointed they didn't draft a QB, but that's because I felt like Locker would've been a perfect fit for them if he had fallen to the second round. But that's not something they had a chance to make happen.

First, Charley Casserly has said many times on NFLN that if a team offered him an extra 1st, he would take that trade every time, so Roethlisberger could have been had if they had offered next year's first in a trade.
Second, if you don't have a franchise QB you cannot win in the pass happy NFL any longer. You either find a franchise QB or you are dead in the water.
I congratulate teams that drafted QB's in the top 10, they are at least trying to win, Ralph Wilson isn't.
Face it, Buffalo has the smallest scouting department in the NFL which usually translates to many flops occurring.
We have no plan on how to rebuild the franchise and until Ralph dies, I doubt we ever make the playoffs again.

Rosebud
05-09-2011, 11:33 AM
First, Charley Casserly has said many times on NFLN that if a team offered him an extra 1st, he would take that trade every time, so Roethlisberger could have been had if they had offered next year's first in a trade.
Second, if you don't have a franchise QB you cannot win in the pass happy NFL any longer. You either find a franchise QB or you are dead in the water.
I congratulate teams that drafted QB's in the top 10, they are at least trying to win, Ralph Wilson isn't.
Face it, Buffalo has the smallest scouting department in the NFL which usually translates to many flops occurring.
We have no plan on how to rebuild the franchise and until Ralph dies, I doubt we ever make the playoffs again.

First off, again I'll bring up the environment concern, and if you Big Ben didn't develop as well as he did he wouldn't be worth that extra first round pick. Plus Charley Casserly doesn't run an NFL anymore, unfortunately for the other 31 teams in the NFL, so just because he said something on TV doesn't mean the Stillers were going to give up their chance at a frnachise QB for anything less than a king's ransom, in which case one has to wonder whether Big Ben could've developed into any where close to the QB he has.

Iamcanadian
05-09-2011, 11:42 AM
No you're statement is BS because the Bills haven't passed on a list of franchise QBs that should make Bills' fans ill, they passed on Freeman, a guy most people on this board disliked as well. Other than that you're suggesting that the Bills should've just drafted Brady Quinn or Jimmy Clausen with nearly top ten picks.

Nor are they a case study in why teams should aggressively pursue a franchise QB seeing as they have aggressively pursued franchise QBs.

I disagree, Indy drafted Jeff George and when he completely flopped they drafted Peyton Manning. San Diego took Ryan Leaf but they kept on looking and found Rivers. In the NFL, you just keep on drafting QB's till you find one and you pay whatever price is necessary. I don't care how many flops you draft.

Rosebud
05-09-2011, 12:11 PM
I disagree, Indy drafted Jeff George and when he completely flopped they drafted Peyton Manning. San Diego took Ryan Leaf but they kept on looking and found Rivers. In the NFL, you just keep on drafting QB's till you find one and you pay whatever price is necessary. I don't care how many flops you draft.

Yeah, the Bills drafted Losman and when it was starting to become clear he'd never be a top starter they got Edwards who was looking great until his concussion. Granted they haven't invested in a QB since then but other than Freeman we're griping about them passing on guys like Clausen, McCoy, Kaepernik and Dalton. None true franchise QBs who can turn a bad team around. Unless of course you suggest the Bills should've just said **** it and taken Locker at #3, which everyone, including me who likes Locker and loves his fit in Buffalo, would've derided much more viciously. I mean I too think Buffalo needs to find a franchise guy, but short of Locker I don't think they've passed on anyone who fits that bill since Freeman.

Poz51
05-09-2011, 01:00 PM
Best player in draft - check
Run stuffing ILB (2)- check
Secondary help (3) - check
Freak DT 7th round gamble - check

Good. They didn't bite on all those overrarted QB's like other teams.

Just like they didnt bite on Clausen last year, most of the QB's this year were 3rd-4th round talents moved up on draft boards based on need, the Bills have all but said they would have taken Newton if he were there, and have publically said if Dareus was gone would have taken Gabbert, but Dareus was #1 on their board and could not pass them up.
Like BM points out, and many people forget Buffalo had the worst run D in the league, so we didnt reach for a QB, Fitzpatrick beats Pittsburgh if Johnson can catch, he beats Kansas City if our recievers can hold on to the ball and the Run D doesnt give up 274 yards at 6.1 a clip, He also probably beats Baltimore is forward progress is properly ruled and 7 Ravens are not allowed to hold up Shawn Nelson and strip the ball, or if someone could cover Heap. They were 4-10 as it was and easily could have been 7-7, in which case them passing on a QB would make the media and those who dont actually watch this team more realist in there assessments. Everyone and their mother thought Von Miller would be the guy if he was there, they have publically stated they would have taken Gabbert over him.

They haven't bitten on a first round QB since 2004. The list of franchise QBs they've passed up in favor of 'teh best playerz' should make Bills' fans ill. They are a case study in why teams should aggressively pursue a franchise QB.

Interestingly enough, Rosebud a Giants fan, might be the smartest poster in this discussion. If you look at the timeline and their QB situation at the time, he is pretty spot on. For all those who did not know, or thought they have not tried to trade up, they did, in 2004 Buffalo tried to trade up for Roethlisberger, the Falcons and Jaguars from what I remember were not taking offers, and the Texans would have done it, but they feared Pittsburgh would take Robinson and wouldnt trade. They later traded up for Losman.
Realistically they are a case study of a cheap owner, and poor management, which leads me to my end point.

I disagree, Indy drafted Jeff George and when he completely flopped they drafted Peyton Manning. San Diego took Ryan Leaf but they kept on looking and found Rivers. In the NFL, you just keep on drafting QB's till you find one and you pay whatever price is necessary. I don't care how many flops you draft.

That is a good point, but if you are not comfortable with a guy and dont think he will be a P. Manning or P. Rivers, do you draft one just to draft one?


End point, people in this thread keep mentioning the past, FYI the past is almost officially the past in Buffalo, the firing of Modrak and promotion of Whaley has just about completely cleaned house in the personnel department.
Nix has now been the GM for 2 years, let me say that again, Nix has only been the GM for 2 years. This is one of the guys who was vital in building San Diego into a contender, who was the scout in charge of the SE, had a big hand in the drafting of Eli Manning, and I am assuming gave his approval of the trade for Rivers and Co.
So saying "For an organization that has been in a rut for over ten years, this draft was just more of the same. Wake me up when Buffalo actually does something interesting for a change." sounds horribly ignorant to me.
The last ten years is gone in Buffalo, gone... No more marketing director in charge, No more Dick Jauron pushing for Aaron Maybin and getting his wish instead of Oher or Orakpo and no more Tom Donahoe grabbing Mike Williams instead of Mount "no sacks allowed in two years, two time all american" McKinnie. This draft has a clear direction, shore up the worst run D in the league, shore up and injury prone and aging corner postion in a passing league, do not reach for a QB in a weak class... The interesting change is that there appears to be a direction, Nix is building the foundation, thats what Donahoe, Jauron and Co. neglected, Nix is the first Bills GM since Polian that appears to have any forsight, and sense of direction that I can remember. Things take time, and rebuilding a team like this, that has been so poorly run over the last decade, is going to take time, next years class looks to be very strong in two postions the Bills could/should upgrade; QB and LT, where as this years class was weak in those two postions. We'll see...

Mac
05-10-2011, 10:26 AM
Sorry about the delay the past couple days. I should be getting to the 49ers soon.
Buffalo Bills
Where did the franchise stand before the draft:
Ever since going to four straight Super Bowls and being competitive throughout the 90s, the Buffalo Bills became one of the most frustrating franchises in professional sports. A series of failed coaches and quarterbacks have come in and out of Buffalo faster than a Grand Central Station turnstile, and repeated conservative decision-making had the franchise in a holding pattern of mediocrity for years until the bottom fell out last season.
Once a fixture in the 8-12 range of the first round, bad decisions made by an over-the-hill personnel department – including 92-year-old owner Ralph Wilson – came back to haunt the Bills last season as they put out the worst roster in the NFL, needing to overachieve just to finish 4-12. The team had no shortage of needs and any prospect selected in the first couple rounds, regardless of what position the player played, would probably start.
The first draft of GM Buddy Nix and Head Coach Chan Gailey does not look promising. No. 9 overall pick C.J. Spiller was shockingly unproductive and will probably never be an every-down back. NT Torrell Troup was one of the biggest reaches of the draft. IMO, this is “Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.” Needless to say, this was a critical draft for the new regime. Right now, I don’t think there is a harder team to be a fan of than the Buffalo Bills.
The Pick
Round One, Pick 3: Marcell Dareus, DL, Alabama
Last season, the Bills tried unsuccessfully to transition to a 3-4 defense. This offseason, the Bills announced they were switching to a multiple base front, meaning they needed to add guys capable of playing in both fronts.
Sitting at three, Buffalo could not miss. After Denver strangely took Von Miller instead of the best player at their biggest position of need, the Bills wisely jumped on Dareus. Dareus dominated playing DE in a 3-4 at Alabama, but is 320 pounds actually better suited to play inside in a 4-3. He has rare athleticism for someone with his size and strength.
Dareus is a sincerely humble and self-motivated man who was one of Nick Saban’s favorite players at Bama. He always played his best in the biggest games in college. Although impressive, his stat line is not what it could have been had played in a one-gap scheme. It would be too much to expect him to be as good as King Suh in 2011, but I think the Bills just got the best player on their roster.
Round Two, Pick 34: Aaron Williams, DB, Texas
Rated by some as the best safety in a weak class, this college corner has enough speed and fluidity to stay at the position in college. Williams is strangely physical for a corner, and at 6’1” 210, he can match up with big, possession receivers like intra-divisional Brandon Marshall and Braylon Edwards if he returns.
However, Williams sometimes lacks confidence in coverage and doesn’t take many chances. While his speed and athleticism is good, it is not elite and will likely hold him back from ever being a shutdown corner. The Bills have five DBs that are free agents, so taking a player with Williams’ potential versatility makes a lot of sense.
Round Three, Pick 68: Kelvin Sheppard, ILB, LSU
Sheppard was a fine player at LSU with good instincts in the running game. He has nice tackling range and is an overall good not great athlete.
Sheppard will likely compete with Akin Ayodele, who is on the back end of his career, for the inside job opposite Paul Posluszny. Sheppard is a curious match with Poz, as Poz will likely remain the playmaker inside, and Sheppard is not a thumper and could struggle taking on blocks.
Round Four, Pick 100: Da’Norris Searcy, S, North Carolina
The Bills once again take a defensive back with multiple projections. At close to 225 pounds, Searcy is widely considered a better fit at safety, where he played this past season, but also has experience at corner and could cover the slot and should become a core special teamer. For his size, you’d like to see him play a whole lot more physically.
Round Four, Pick 122 (from Seattle): Chris Hariston, OT, Clemson
Interesting pick since the Bills already seem to have a hoard of RTs with no true LT on the roster. Hairston is huge at 6’7” and over 330 pounds and does most of his damage in the running game with a nasty demeanor and terrific leverage. I think his long-term upside is limited but he will have every chance to beat out Mansfield Wrotto and Ed Wang on the right side, although the Bills would ideally like a LT to come in and force Demetrius Bell to the right.
Round Five, Pick 133: Johnny White, RB, North Carolina
Here is a pick I liked a whole lot more than most experts. White is an athletic thumper who adds depth to a position of relative strength. If Fred Jackson falters or gets hurt, don’t be surprised if White fills in more than adequately as their between-the-tackles runner. Will compete for the short-yardage job immediately.
Round Six, Pick 169: Chris White, ILB, Mississippi State
An aggressive, athletically-limited JUCO transfer who really came on as a senior. He tries hard, but often gets lost in traffic and is weak in coverage, especially when asked to go man-to-man. He will probably not make the team unless he can offer something in special teams.
Round Seven, Pick 206: Justin Rogers, CB, Richmond
A much talked-about small school sleeper, Rogers is smooth and smart with nice ball skills. Although he lacks great size and athleticism, there should be a place for him in nickel and dime packages.
Round Seven, Pick 245: Michael Jasper, DT, Bethel (TN)
I had never heard of him before, but apparently he was once over 400 pounds and played offense. This looks like a throwaway pick. The Bills must really trust their regional scout on this one.
All in all:
Well, if you were looking for the Bills to rock the boat, forget it. This was a typical Bills draft with no trades except for the one made during the season with Seattle for Marshawn Lynch, and few picks that figure to turn this team around.
Yes, I love the Dareus pick, but the Bills left this draft having not addressed QB, LT and pass rusher. In spite of everyone in the world telling them they need to upgrade over Ryan Fitzpatrick, Demetrius Bell and whichever “promising” mid-round draft pick OLB they are trotting out this week.
For an organization that has been in a rut for over ten years, this draft was just more of the same. Wake me up when Buffalo actually does something interesting for a change.
Draft grade: C

Wow, what a terrible breakdown.

First of all, the past 2 QB classes were pure garbage (except Bradford) and you want us to take a QB when Fitz actually played decent last year? We'll target one next year in a much better and deeper QB class, you know, when there is one actually worth picking.

Second, you must admit you have never seen Bell play LT. He played well last year and excells in pass pro but struggles at run blocking, and you want to move him to RT??? That's pretty hilarious.

I also love how you didnt say we address our 32nd ranked run D, but instead you criticize players who actually played well last year (Fitz and Bell) and complain how we didnt replace them. I honestly dont know why you wasted your time writing this when you clearly know nothing about the team.

It's very possible that our first 5 picks turn out to be starters and yet you grade the draft a "C" LOL.

And since you dont know anything about our "throw away pick" I'll post this

He's about the size of three people and can play multiple positions.

Jasper is 6-foot-4 and played last season at 430 pounds. He weighed 448 pounds in January. To get an idea of his enormity, you can check out photos of Jasper on his personal website.

Jasper started out as a defensive tackle at Tennessee-Martin and switched to offensive tackle. Then he transferred to Middle Tennessee State before landing at Bethel, where he started at both guard and defensive tackle.

We finally found him listed at guard in Kiper's guide.

Bills scouts asked Jasper to get below 400 pounds, and he trimmed down to 375.

"He's drying up to nothing," Bills general manager Buddy Nix cracked.

Nix said Bills regional scout Matt Hand "has been stalking this guy for a year or longer."

The Bills planned on signing Jasper as a rookie free agent but took him in the seventh round.

"This is an amazing kid," Nix said. "He vertical jumps 32 inches, and he longed jumped like 9-5 and dunks a basketball with both hands. ... He's an exceptional athlete.

http://espn.go.com/blog/afceast/post/_/id/28617/bills-draft-pick-weighed-448-in-january

I'll give your breakdown a D+.

Roddoliver
05-10-2011, 08:02 PM
First of all, the past 2 QB classes were pure garbage (except Bradford) and you want us to take a QB when Fitz actually played decent last year?

Obviosuly, you say that only because your team did not draft a QB. If the Bills could keep secret of who are their targets at QB, other teams would not jump ahead of them and steal the QBs. The Bills lost the QBs they wanted in the last 2 drafts.

Rosebud
05-11-2011, 01:06 AM
Obviosuly, you say that only because your team did not draft a QB. If the Bills could keep secret of who are their targets at QB, other teams would not jump ahead of them and steal the QBs. The Bills lost the QBs they wanted in the last 2 drafts.

Cam Newton and Sam Bradford went first overall, I'm pretty sure that that wasn't because teams jumped ahead of the Bills and stole the QBs.

ellsy82
05-11-2011, 02:07 AM
Dareus will be a great DT for years to come. He can stop the run and he can pressure the QB. That's not a bad first pick. In fact, I think Darius might be the next DT to raise some noise in any division, any conference. I believe he's that good. Brady, Sanchez, and Henne better watch their backs. This boy has a motor.

Bucs_Rule
05-11-2011, 08:44 AM
I'd rather have Fitz and Dareus then Gabbart/Locker/Ponder. And Fitz and Aaron Williams over Dalton/Kaepernick.

This year had a bunch of QB prospects that weren't terribly impressive. Its not like Buffalo was passing on great ones.

SolidGold
05-11-2011, 08:59 AM
Without sounding stupid...Didn't Gailey like what he saw out of Levi Brown? I am not saying he will amount to much but I think Gailey was impressed and thinks he can develop him. He was like a 6th or 7th round pick in 2010 out of Troy I believe.

Poz51
05-11-2011, 10:57 AM
Obviosuly, you say that only because your team did not draft a QB. If the Bills could keep secret of who are their targets at QB, other teams would not jump ahead of them and steal the QBs. The Bills lost the QBs they wanted in the last 2 drafts.

Maybe he agrees with Mike Mayock...
Maybe he agrees with numerous others who say the same thing...
Or...
Maybe he said that because its true...

Who are the teams that jumped ahead of the Bills in the last two drafts to draft QB's?
Who are the QB's they wanted?

- Bradford went 1st, Clausen 48th last year, no trades ahead of the Bills in 2010.
- Newton went 1st, and Miller 2nd in 2011, no trades ahead of the Bills... Oh wait, I got it!! No, Jacksonville traded up for Gabbert ahead of Minnesota and Miami possibly to get Gabbert... No trades ahead of the Bills in 2011.
- Just think of the possibilities if they would only stop posting thier big board, and internal mock drafts on that fancy intranet thing....
- You just posted the most ignorant BS I have seen in some time, congradulations.

Poz51
05-11-2011, 11:01 AM
I'd rather have Fitz and Dareus then Gabbart/Locker/Ponder. And Fitz and Aaron Williams over Dalton/Kaepernick.

This year had a bunch of QB prospects that weren't terribly impressive. Its not like Buffalo was passing on great ones.

Looking at it that way makes sense.

Without sounding stupid...Didn't Gailey like what he saw out of Levi Brown? I am not saying he will amount to much but I think Gailey was impressed and thinks he can develop him. He was like a 6th or 7th round pick in 2010 out of Troy I believe.

Gailey liked him enough to cut him, then cut Edwards and bring him back. He is a developmental guy, but Gailey has said he likes him, and implied he can be developed. 7th rounder out of Troy. Right now it looks like they will bring in a veteran or two into camp to back up Fitz, cut whomever they dont like if they bring in 2, and have Brown as the third QB, and develop him. Didnt sound stupid at all ;)

Monomach
05-11-2011, 11:13 AM
I'd give feedback, but I just plain couldn't read it. For all I know, it could the best review ever or a steaming pile of garbage. You've got to go back in there and hit the enter key between paragraphs.

This thing hurt my eyes and brain until I gave up.

Halsey
05-11-2011, 01:20 PM
I'd rather have Fitz and Dareus then Gabbart/Locker/Ponder. And Fitz and Aaron Williams over Dalton/Kaepernick.

This year had a bunch of QB prospects that weren't terribly impressive. Its not like Buffalo was passing on great ones.

You also would have rather the Bucs taken someone other than Josh Freeman.

I didn't want Freeman before and definitly not now.

http://draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1505164&highlight=Freeman#post1505164

Teams that wait around for the perfect franchise QB prospect never find one. Lucky for you that your favorite team didn't wait.

Roddoliver
05-11-2011, 03:08 PM
LOL I can't believe no one knows who are the two QBs that Buffalo wanted in 2010 and 2011.

K Train
05-11-2011, 03:10 PM
LOL I can't believe no one knows who are the two QBs that Buffalo wanted in 2010 and 2011.

tebow and ponder

Roddoliver
05-11-2011, 03:15 PM
tebow and ponder

We got a winner.

Halsey
05-11-2011, 03:20 PM
They didn't want them that bad. They could have stayed put, traded up or traded down in a variety of ways in order to get one of them.

Roddoliver
05-11-2011, 03:31 PM
At least they are not in bad shape with Fitzpatrick. Much better than last offseason, when Trent Edwards (ugh) was named the starter early and took most of the practice reps before the regular season.

Bucs_Rule
05-11-2011, 03:39 PM
You also would have rather the Bucs taken someone other than Josh Freeman.



http://draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1505164&highlight=Freeman#post1505164

Teams that wait around for the perfect franchise QB prospect never find one. Lucky for you that your favorite team didn't wait.

I was definitely wrong about Freeman and fortunately Morris is in charge not me.

One or two of the guys the Bills passed on will be better then Fitz. Which two of those I have no idea.

nepg
05-11-2011, 03:51 PM
First off, again I'll bring up the environment concern, and if you Big Ben didn't develop as well as he did he wouldn't be worth that extra first round pick. Plus Charley Casserly doesn't run an NFL anymore, unfortunately for the other 31 teams in the NFL, so just because he said something on TV doesn't mean the Stillers were going to give up their chance at a frnachise QB for anything less than a king's ransom, in which case one has to wonder whether Big Ben could've developed into any where close to the QB he has.

Yes, Big Ben would have had a much better chance to develop in that situation than JP Losman. However, Halsey is forgetting that the Bills still had Drew Bledsoe when they drafted Losman and had put a **** team around Bledsoe (not helped by trading a first round pick for Losman).

I do think the Bills should have jumped all over Locker at #3, though.

SolidGold
05-11-2011, 03:57 PM
Do you think they may go after Thigpen? I think he is a FA.

Bucs_Rule
05-11-2011, 06:32 PM
Thigpen was not very good as a Dolphin last year. Which makes him an average backup. Bills may get him for that role, but not to compete for a job or long-term answer.

SolidGold
05-11-2011, 06:35 PM
I just figure he is one of the more obvious possibilities because he played in Gailey's system and put up pretty good numbers. Don't think he is a franchise type but would be a good depth QB and spot starter.

Rosebud
05-12-2011, 12:51 AM
We got a winner.

Do you really think either of those guys will be significantly better than Fitzy down the road? I do think Tebow could be a really good QB but that's a massive gamble and takes a lot of time, can't really forsake them for not getting Tim Tebow, especially since I was one of the only people on here who didn't make fun of Denver for doing precisely what you are suggesting Buffalo should have.

I think that they need a guy with huge upside or a truly elite QB prospect so that they can take their time polishing that guy while Fitz holds the fort rather than going after some mid-tier guy who's yet to prove his limitations, that's why I agree that Cam Newton would've been a really intriguing fit in Buffalo but a guy like Ponder would've been a wasted pick.

I get the point that Buffalo needs a franchise QB, but it's not like they passed on anyone who was going to be a real upgrade over Fitz, had a guy like Jake Locker really fallen to the late first, then you're criticism might hold water, but as is you're skewering Buffalo for America not having produced enough babies with QB-genes 20-odd years ago.

Edit: Sorry bro, quoted you but was also responding to Halsey and the "Buffalo should've gotten a QB" crowd.

Rosebud
05-12-2011, 01:00 AM
Yes, Big Ben would have had a much better chance to develop in that situation than JP Losman. However, Halsey is forgetting that the Bills still had Drew Bledsoe when they drafted Losman and had put a **** team around Bledsoe (not helped by trading a first round pick for Losman).

I do think the Bills should have jumped all over Locker at #3, though.

Well yes, Big Ben would've been better that JP ******* Losman, but that's because a concussed Trent Edwards was better than JP Losman. Still I think that our view point on Big Ben the prospect is a little tainted by just how successful he has been, forgetting that he walked into one of the most perfect set ups a rookie QB could have. Dominant D, running game, strong OL with Receivers who would make tough catches and a coach who knew how to call plays within Ben's limits.

In Buffalo he could've sat behind Bledsoe for a little while...although I think Bledsoe had signed with Dallas before the draft...but that offense fell apart quick, the OL went to ****, receiving corps got decimated and running game was non-existent. Big Ben would've been working with a solid defense, it was funny how in one season they went from a team with a high power offense and awful D to a pretty good D and terrible O, but little help on the offensive side of the ball. So while he probably wouldn't have been Losman bad, he definitely wouldn't have been in as great of a situation as he was and so probably wouldn't be as good as he is today.

K Train
05-12-2011, 08:24 AM
Well yes, Big Ben would've been better that JP ******* Losman, but that's because a concussed Trent Edwards was better than JP Losman. Still I think that our view point on Big Ben the prospect is a little tainted by just how successful he has been, forgetting that he walked into one of the most perfect set ups a rookie QB could have. Dominant D, running game, strong OL with Receivers who would make tough catches and a coach who knew how to call plays within Ben's limits.
.

ben was a fantastic prospect...i think it might be just the opposite of what your saying. i think the views on bens ability are low balled just because of how perfect the setup was, not saying it wasnt perfect because it was but thats not the whole story when it comes to his ability.

im gonna be honest though i kinda like fitz....i think hes a tough dude, a good player, and he shows an underrated amount of ability on the field, i see why they are comfortable with him for now but i do think they should have invested in a guy to take over in a year or 2 and spend that time getting him ready while fitz does his thing

Roddoliver
05-12-2011, 10:41 AM
Do you really think either of those guys will be significantly better than Fitzy down the road?

That's what the Bills must have thought to be intetested in those QBs.

After Denver drafted Tebow, Adam Schefter reported that Buffalo was also trying to trade back into the 1st round to draft him. He even said that GM Nix was "distraught". And they were in love with Tebow before the draft, with big support from Jim Kelly.

Even if they like Fitzpatrick, I believe they will keep searching for an upgrade, someone younger to be developed as the franchise QB.

Rosebud
05-12-2011, 10:51 AM
That's what the Bills must have thought to be intetested in those QBs.

After Denver drafted Tebow, Adam Schefter reported that Buffalo was also trying to trade back into the 1st round to draft him. He even said that GM Nix was "distraught". And they were in love with Tebow before the draft, with big support from Jim Kelly.

Even if they like Fitzpatrick, I believe they will keep searching for an upgrade, someone younger to be developed as the franchise QB.

As they should, I just feel the only obvious upgrades where guys they didn't have a shot at, Bradford and Newton, or guys that would have been huge reaches/risks, Locker.

Iamcanadian
05-12-2011, 08:19 PM
Dareus will be a great DT for years to come. He can stop the run and he can pressure the QB. That's not a bad first pick. In fact, I think Darius might be the next DT to raise some noise in any division, any conference. I believe he's that good. Brady, Sanchez, and Henne better watch their backs. This boy has a motor.

Buffalo plays a 3-4 defense and last I looked 3-4 DE's or even NT's don't exactly dominate that defense. If your expecting him to provide a pass rush, then I think you have the wrong player in the wrong defense.

Bills2083
05-12-2011, 08:49 PM
Buffalo plays a 3-4 defense and last I looked 3-4 DE's or even NT's don't exactly dominate that defense. If your expecting him to provide a pass rush, then I think you have the wrong player in the wrong defense.

Kyle Williams had 5.5 sacks last year playing NT in a 3-4.
Is that an earth-shattering number? No. But he was getting those numbers with absolutely NO help from his DEs. Johnson/Edwards/Stroud were abysmal last season. He faced constant double-teams but still produced. Now what will happen when Olinemen can't double team Williams anymore in order to keep Dareus out of the backfield? That will free up Williams to make more plays, which equates to more sacks. Will Dareus be getting 10+ year? Absolutely not. But his play will allow for Williams, himself, and the OLBs to get sacks.

Iamcanadian
05-12-2011, 08:50 PM
I like how everybody assumes that Locker, Gabbert and Ponder will amount to nothing and be flops. Those team's GM's couldn't possibly know what they were doing, they were obvious reaches, everybody knows that except maybe it isn't true, just maybe those teams knew exactly what they wanted and those QB's filled the bill.
Who made the posters on this site draft geniuses?
By any standard, ever since FA and the salary cap came into being, Buffalo has had an owner incapable of building a team under these rules.
Just maybe Ralph Wilson hasn't drafted a QB very high because he doesn't want to pay them a huge salary. He certainly refuses to pay any of his players a huge salary which is why every star player he has had over the last decade or 2, has been dumped in FA or traded when they demanded to be paid as stars.
He can hire Gailey or a Nix but in the end he makes all the financial decisions for Buffalo and he is cheap, cheap and more cheap.
He doesn't spend near the cap limit, which means he pockets the difference. Heck, he sells his home games off to Toronto, spitting in the Bill's fan's faces even though they were selling out every home game while being a rotten team.
Bottom line, no matter what you want to argue, you cannot win under the new rules favouring passing, without a true franchise QB in today's NFL. You draft a QB every year if necessary till you find a franchise QB. It doesn't matter if they flop, you just keep on trucking till you reach your goal or you are dooming your franchise to total mediocrity.
Indy flopped with George, they still took Peyton, San Diego flopped with Leaf, they still took Rivers, VY was a failure in Tennessee, they took Locker, Minny had Favre retire, they took Ponder, and Jacksonville had their own Fitz and they still took Gabbert. That is what you do if you want to compete in the NFL.

Iamcanadian
05-12-2011, 09:00 PM
Kyle Williams had 5.5 sacks last year playing NT in a 3-4.
Is that an earth-shattering number? No. But he was getting those numbers with absolutely NO help from his DEs. Johnson/Edwards/Stroud were abysmal last season. He faced constant double-teams but still produced. Now what will happen when Olinemen can't double team Williams anymore in order to keep Dareus out of the backfield? That will free up Williams to make more plays, which equates to more sacks. Will Dareus be getting 10+ year? Absolutely not. But his play will allow for Williams, himself, and the OLBs to get sacks.

Last I looked, 3-4 DE are asked to tie up blockers so their LB's can make the tackle, they aren't asked too often to rush the passer and 5.5 sacks is about all you are going to get from a NT.
With 3 DLmen in a 3-4, double teams are a way of life unless you have an outstanding OLB which Buffalo doesn't. Every NT in the NFL is double teamed on running plays and basically ignored on passing downs.
It may help your run defense but Dareus isn't going to make much of an impact as a pass rusher.

Bills2083
05-12-2011, 09:05 PM
Heck, he sells his home games off to Toronto, spitting in the Bill's fan's faces even though they were selling out every home game while being a rotten team.


It's a 5 year deal for 8 games (3 preseason) which generates $78 million for the team ($15.6 mil/game)
If that is what it takes to keep the team in Buffalo, I (a season ticket holder) am all for giving Toronto 1 regular season game a year. I dont care about preseason in the slightest. It just saves me from having to pay full price for a useless game

What would be interesting is to see how much money a typical Bills preseason/regular season game at the Ralph generates.

Bills2083
05-12-2011, 09:11 PM
Last I looked, 3-4 DE are asked to tie up blockers so their LB's can make the tackle, they aren't asked too often to rush the passer and 5.5 sacks is about all you are going to get from a NT.
With 3 DLmen in a 3-4, double teams are a way of life unless you have an outstanding OLB which Buffalo doesn't. Every NT in the NFL is double teamed on running plays and basically ignored on passing downs.
It may help your run defense but Dareus isn't going to make much of an impact as a pass rusher.

What I'm saying is, even though Williams was double teamed on passing plays last season, he was still able to get 5.5 sacks. Now, if the C/RG are keyed in on Williams, that leaves Dareus 1-on-1 with the RT, allowing him to play his game and get to the QB. If he can't, he ties up the tackle and allows the rush backer to create pressure. Plus, Williams has shown that he can beat double-teams and I'm sure Dareus can beat a few 1-on-1's during his first season so there's no doubt in mind they'll have more sacks - indirectly in part due to Dareus.

Vox Populi
05-12-2011, 09:32 PM
I don't get how people make the argument that the Bills don't try to address the QB situation... Since Jim Kelly retired after the 1996 season, heres what happened.

1. Start their 2nd round pick from '95 in the '97 season, Todd Collins
2. Traded 1st & 4th round picks in '98 for Rob Johnson & acquired Doug Flutie in '98
Everything is cool until Flutie leaves (10-6, 11-5, 8-8), Rob Johnson is exposed as the complete piece of **** that he is, 7th year Bills backup clipboard champ Alex Van Pelt gets thrown in and is terrible as well and the Bills go 3-13.
3. Traded 2003 1st round pick for Drew Bledsoe in 2002
4. Spend 1st round pick on J.P. Losman in 2004
5. Sign Craig Nall in 2006 (apparently people thought he could have been solid)
6. Spend 2nd round pick on Trent Edwards in 2007
7. Sign Ryan Fitzpatrick in 2009

In the past decade the Bills have thrown pretty much everything but a top 10 pick at the QB position. The Bills have a solid QB now, hes without question better than or as good as half of the league's starters, he is only 28 (younger than Rivers & Eli, same age as Big Ben, only a year older than Rodgers & Cutler, to give some perspective) and because he wasn't a first rounder and doesn't have a cannon for an arm, apparently he needs to be replaced immediately.

I don't really understand it... As long as the players the Bills pick contribute I don't care, Fitzpatrick might not carry a team, but he isn't going to be the team's undoing either. Would it be the end of the world if the Bills managed to become a team like the Panthers or Seahawks of the past decade?

Halsey
05-13-2011, 12:26 AM
The Bills have been half assing their QB position since they missed on JP Losman. Craig Nall? lol. Trent Edwards was a third rounder and Fitzpatrick was brought in to be Edward's backup. Like I said earlier, they've chosen to bypass numerous first round QB prospects in favor of less important, but supposedly 'safer' players.

onejayhawk
05-13-2011, 01:52 AM
Last I looked, 3-4 DE are asked to tie up blockers so their LB's can make the tackle, they aren't asked too often to rush the passer and 5.5 sacks is about all you are going to get from a NT.
With 3 DLmen in a 3-4, double teams are a way of life unless you have an outstanding OLB which Buffalo doesn't. Every NT in the NFL is double teamed on running plays and basically ignored on passing downs.
It may help your run defense but Dareus isn't going to make much of an impact as a pass rusher.

3-4 DEs are asked to stack up the lateral movement of the OL. It is not quite the same thing. NT with 5+ sacks are rare, and usually not asked to double gap, eg Dallas.

Dareus can have a pass rush element. They tools and skills are there. Richard Seymour did it out of a 3-4 set. If they go to an even number line in their nickel, he will be asked to penetrate more. A lot of this is how you scheme things, and the thing to like about Dareus is that he can play them all: 3-4 DE, 4-3 DT, 2-4-5 pass rusher.

J

Rosebud
05-13-2011, 03:18 AM
I like how everybody assumes that Locker, Gabbert and Ponder will amount to nothing and be flops. Those team's GM's couldn't possibly know what they were doing, they were obvious reaches, everybody knows that except maybe it isn't true, just maybe those teams knew exactly what they wanted and those QB's filled the bill.
Who made the posters on this site draft geniuses?
By any standard, ever since FA and the salary cap came into being, Buffalo has had an owner incapable of building a team under these rules.
Just maybe Ralph Wilson hasn't drafted a QB very high because he doesn't want to pay them a huge salary. He certainly refuses to pay any of his players a huge salary which is why every star player he has had over the last decade or 2, has been dumped in FA or traded when they demanded to be paid as stars.
He can hire Gailey or a Nix but in the end he makes all the financial decisions for Buffalo and he is cheap, cheap and more cheap.
He doesn't spend near the cap limit, which means he pockets the difference. Heck, he sells his home games off to Toronto, spitting in the Bill's fan's faces even though they were selling out every home game while being a rotten team.
Bottom line, no matter what you want to argue, you cannot win under the new rules favouring passing, without a true franchise QB in today's NFL. You draft a QB every year if necessary till you find a franchise QB. It doesn't matter if they flop, you just keep on trucking till you reach your goal or you are dooming your franchise to total mediocrity.
Indy flopped with George, they still took Peyton, San Diego flopped with Leaf, they still took Rivers, VY was a failure in Tennessee, they took Locker, Minny had Favre retire, they took Ponder, and Jacksonville had their own Fitz and they still took Gabbert. That is what you do if you want to compete in the NFL.

Look, I like Locker a lot, but Buffalo would've been evicerated for taking a QB with numbers like Locker's' in the top 3. It was just too big of a risk for that high value of a position.

The bolded is IMO just stupid. Picking a QB every year until you get Peyton Manning ensures that even if you get Peyton he'll bust. You need ot be a good team for a young QB to actually hit his potential, which is why a team as bereft of talent as buffalo doesn't need to waste any more picks on guys they don't see as franchise QBs.

Yes you need a franchise QB to win, but you need a some pieces for a rookie QB to become a franchise QB, and if you're wasting ever first rounder on trying to find a franchise QB you'll never get a deep enough team to help that franchise QB. between the selection of Leaf and Brees there was a couple of years, same with Brees to Rivers or VY to Locker. Teams don't just take a franchise QB every year.

Last I looked, 3-4 DE are asked to tie up blockers so their LB's can make the tackle, they aren't asked too often to rush the passer and 5.5 sacks is about all you are going to get from a NT.
With 3 DLmen in a 3-4, double teams are a way of life unless you have an outstanding OLB which Buffalo doesn't. Every NT in the NFL is double teamed on running plays and basically ignored on passing downs.
It may help your run defense but Dareus isn't going to make much of an impact as a pass rusher.

...and tying up blockers leaves OLBs with much easier matchups. Just look at what Joey Porter needed to do for Pittsburgh. The man was not a great pass rusher, but since the DL was so good he got to face off against a lot of TEs and RBs, which were battles he could win. If Troup or Carrington hits alongside Dareus and Kyle Williams, Buffalo won't need DeMarcus Ware to get pressure.

Rosebud
05-13-2011, 03:22 AM
The Bills have been half assing their QB position since they missed on JP Losman. Craig Nall? lol. Trent Edwards was a third rounder and Fitzpatrick was brought in to be Edward's backup. Like I said earlier, they've chosen to bypass numerous first round QB prospects in favor of less important, but supposedly 'safer' players.

Trent Edwards also almost beat a stacked Dallas squad with little help. Trent may have been a third rounder, but he was a guy who a lot of people thought had starter potential, and even performed well as a starter, had he never been concussed I doubt we'd be talking about Buffalo's need for a QB at all as he was a good one before he lost his balls.

Bills2083
05-13-2011, 08:14 AM
The Bills have been half assing their QB position since they missed on JP Losman. Craig Nall? lol. Trent Edwards was a third rounder and Fitzpatrick was brought in to be Edward's backup. Like I said earlier, they've chosen to bypass numerous first round QB prospects in favor of less important, but supposedly 'safer' players.

How many times have the Bills had the opportunity to draft a 'sure-fire' QB at the top of the draft like the Falcons with Ryan; Rams with Bradford; Lions with Stafford? None. Those guys did not have the huge question marks that Newton, Gabbert, and Locker have. I would bet ANYTHING that if a player like Ryan/Bradford/Stafford were there the Bills would have sprinted up to the table with their card.

K Train
05-13-2011, 08:47 AM
How many times have the Bills had the opportunity to draft a 'sure-fire' QB at the top of the draft like the Falcons with Ryan; Rams with Bradford; Lions with Stafford? None. Those guys did not have the huge question marks that Newton, Gabbert, and Locker have. I would bet ANYTHING that if a player like Ryan/Bradford/Stafford were there the Bills would have sprinted up to the table with their card.

not really stafford but ryan was hardly a sure fire QB and i still think bradford is gonna fall on his face now that teams make him throw to mediocre WRs more than 10 yards down the field.

gabbert and newton have just as many ??? as ryan, bradford, lienart, and young. Quinn and stafford being the safest i can think of, and quinn flopped hard

Halsey
05-13-2011, 11:33 AM
How many times have the Bills had the opportunity to draft a 'sure-fire' QB

There's no such thing as a sure fire QB. Jim Kelly wasn't a sure fire QB when the Bills selected him with pick 14 of the first round in 1983.

Bills2083
05-13-2011, 11:45 AM
There's no such thing as a sure fire QB. Jim Kelly wasn't a sure fire QB when the Bills selected him with pick 14 of the first round in 1983.

Talking about this past draft...
I FULLY believe that if Newton was on the board at #3 the Bills would have taken him.
They feel like they can win with Fitzpatrick and if that is the case then keep him at QB. While I would have liked for them to take a QB of the future, I didn't want them reaching on one who they didn't like, just to appease the fans/media. I would have liked someone like Kaepernick in the 2nd, to have sit behind Fitz for year or two, then have him come in with a solid understanding and supporting cast, but they just went the Aaron Williams route.

Vox Populi
05-13-2011, 08:38 PM
There's no such thing as a sure fire QB. Jim Kelly wasn't a sure fire QB when the Bills selected him with pick 14 of the first round in 1983.

He was a sure fire to not play for the Bills until half a decade after they drafted him because his league folded...

Seriously, its only been 2 years since Trent Edwards was actually a good QB until Adrian Wilson literally turned him into a ***** with a headshot in week 5. The Bills were 4-0 going into that game and Edwards led a couple of comebacks. He was looking great. They didn't know 1 concussion would forever turn him into a walking vagina, so they didn't draft a QB in the '09 draft for pretty obvious reasons. Last year it was Jimmy Clausen or nothing, I'm pretty sure they made the right decision. This year it was grab Gabbert/Locker at 3 or pick someone that probably won't be any better than Fitzpatrick or any of the other QB's the Bills have had over the past 15 years.

I really don't buy the criticism. BUT U NEED TO TAKE TOP QB WHEN HES THERE. He hasn't ever been there for the Bills the past two years, and before then Bills have always had someone on the roster that appeared to be "the guy" since they traded for Bledsoe. You can disagree all you want, but right now Ryan Fitzpatrick is "the guy" for the Bills. If there is an opportunity to upgrade the position at an appropriate value, I'm sure the Bills will at the very least consider it.

Also, what the **** does Ralph Wilson's cheapness have to do with not drafting a QB? You get paid based on where you're drafted, not what position you play, and its not like there have been a tonne of unbeliveable quarterbacks available through free agency year after year... I'm pretty sure Fitzpatrick has probably been the best free agent QB for his new team in the past few years (excluding Vick because the circumstances were, well, yeah...) ... so yeah...

/rant

onejayhawk
06-11-2011, 11:13 AM
I was just reading Scott's review of the bills draft, and I do not get the grade. Giving a B is very inconsisitant with the comments.

Start with the first pick. Picking #3 is hard to mess up, but teams have managed. Dareus hits the trifecta: Need, Impact, Upside. It may be argued that it was a no brainer, but its was one they got right.

His biggest problem with Aaron Williams seems to be that he does not fill a pressing need. Good value at a premium position, but not a rookie impact player. While I would have been sorely tempted to take Colin Kaepernick, the pick is too good to downgrade on that point alone. If nothing else, the Bills stated clearly that their starting QB is on the roster.

Round three pick Kelvin Sheppard gets no criticism, other than it came too late. Sheppard, like Dareus, is scheme flexible, and more could have been made of that point.

So, of the premium rounds, there was a big hit in round one, and three solid picks, two big holes filled. Based on the comments, nothing less then a B+ would be consistent. To quote Rick Gosselin, "A good draft becomes great on day three." Hairston, both Whites and Rogers all rated to go significantly higher. Nothing is said of the value, but much is said of filling need--the problem with Aaron Williams, who also was rated to go much higher.

While it is often said that teams cannot fill every hole in one draft. Yet the Bills did well on that score. They drafted two near certain starters in the front seven, and a likely hole plugger at RT. A future starter in the secondary, a very useful backup RB, Four players taken at value, five taken as value picks. It seems, based Scott's comments, that the only reason this is not an A draft is the lack of a QB. Sorry, but I cannot fault someone for thinking Colin Kaepernick is not an upgrade on Ryan Fitzpatrick, even in Scrabble.

Very odd final score.

J

Poz51
06-14-2011, 12:55 PM
1st - Nice point J. I agree, and thought the grade was low myself.

2nd - Some thoughts on the Bills QB situation the last half decade or so.
In the last five years (not including this year) the Bills have passed on first round QB's; Matt Lienart (Whew!!), Jay Cutler (You got 1 PT., but Losman did come off a 3000 year season with 19 TD's and 14 INT's in his first season (and only) as a starter), Brady Quinn (Swing and a ???, Whew...), Joe Flacco (Just drafted Edwards who had a solid rookie year, Losman was still on the roster, and they landed the consensus #1 CB on the board in what is becoming a passing league...), Josh Freeman (Edwards was 7-7 and building on a solid rookie year, it is the following year he is decapitated and neutered by Adrian Wilson and is never the same.), and Tim Tebow (With the 9th Pick? Really?), anyone with actual knowledge of this team, its actual history of GM's and head coaches, or anyone who did some actual research would realize they actaully have not passed on a QB in the last five years in the first round.

The last two years, with actual football people in charge, both of whom now more than you, me, and yes even Mr. Wright himself about football, and especially QB's, have passed on Tim Tebow (see previous comment) and this past year; Blaine Gabbert (Whom they said they would have taken if Dareus was not there, and developed), Jake Locker (With the 3rd pick? Really?), and Christian Ponder (With the 3rd pick? C'mon...) in what is widely considered by many "experts" one of the weakest QB crops ever...
Thoughts?

onejayhawk
06-14-2011, 05:30 PM
1st - Nice point J. I agree, and thought the grade was low myself.
:bows:
The last two years, with actual football people in charge, both of whom now more than you, me, and yes even Mr. Wright himself about football, and especially QB's, have passed on Tim Tebow (see previous comment) and this past year; Blaine Gabbert (Whom they said they would have taken if Dareus was not there, and developed), Jake Locker (With the 3rd pick? Really?), and Christian Ponder (With the 3rd pick? C'mon...) in what is widely considered by many "experts" one of the weakest QB crops ever...
Thoughts?
I really liked the Bills draft last year, but they did not use any rookies but Spiller, and him in a limited role No returns). In comparison the Patriots had 57 games started by McCourty, Gronkowski, Spikes, Hernandez, even 7th rounder Deaderick. Of course the Pats dont have 4 consecutive Super Bowls in their team history, do they?

J

Poz51
06-15-2011, 07:42 AM
:bows:

I really liked the Bills draft last year, but they did not use any rookies but Spiller, and him in a limited role No returns). In comparison the Patriots had 57 games started by McCourty, Gronkowski, Spikes, Hernandez, even 7th rounder Deaderick. Of course the Pats dont have 4 consecutive Super Bowls in their team history, do they?

J

There is a major difference between the Patriots and Bills is that the Pats already have solid and experienced foundation around those guys, and long time systems in place, IMO, having Brady who knows the offensive system inside and out helps Gronk and Hernandez, and having few options outside those two heading into the season allowed them to maximize their potential early, as they were pretty much forced into action, and few teams utilize TE's like the Pats. Almost like a perfect storm. Similarly to the TE's, Spikes was forced into starting IMO because they needed a thumper next to Mayo who simillarly to Brady knows the defense inside and out, having Mayo infront of him also helps cover him as a rookie. McCourty... Apparently won the the job early and ran with it all the way to the pro-bowl.
The Bills are a whole different story. New defensive system, with few pieces in place around the defensive rookies. Carrington, Troup, Moats, were all developed properly for the system, none of them played in 3-4's in college, in fact I believe Moats came frome a 5-2 or a 4-4. Everything was a transition, and all three I mentioned Started playing more as the season progressed
and made plays, Moats should start from day 1, Carrington will be part of the best young 5 tech rotation in the league with Dareus (who I actually like better at the 3), and Troup will platoon with Williams more this year. Offensively Nelson and Jones started a bunch of games at WR, and made plays, Spiller one a RB, and again, a new system with new pieces and little experience. They did use rookies, they just took thier time to work them in properly for the given situation. Spiller was handling kick off returns, he had 44 for over a 1000 yards and a TD. All the other rookies were mostly hurt and out for the year, or most of it. The Bills rookies had 15 or so
The Pats have super bowl wins, but not 4 straight appearances (schucks...)...
I will say this in conclusion; the Bills GM knows what he is doing, and has given this team direction. The front 7, especially if Merriman can stay healthy, has the potetial with Dareus, Williams and Carrington upfront, Merriman, Pozluszny, Sheppard and Moats at LB to be one of the best front seven's in all of football. For the first time in a long time I like the Bills draft for two years in a row, and like the foundation being laid.

onejayhawk
06-17-2011, 04:59 PM
As I said, I like the Bills draft in 2010. I was just disappointed that rookies did not command more PT.

J