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SolidGold
05-09-2011, 07:15 AM
I was reading Peter King's MMQB article and this was in it:

"Cam Newton will be the most scrutinized player in years. The experiment is on. If Newton is successful, the NFL will fundamentally change.''
-- New tweeter @CollinsworthNBC, NBC's Cris Collinsworth, on ... well, you can figure it out. Good observation.

Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/peter_king/05/08/mmqb/index.html#ixzz1LrB11GhK



Kind of blows my mind how short sighted Collinsworth is. In the NFL a QB adapts to the game, the game does not adapt to the QB. I think the same things were said about JaMarcus Russell when he was drafted.

Shane P. Hallam
05-09-2011, 07:47 AM
I was reading Peter King's MMQB article and this was in it:

"Cam Newton will be the most scrutinized player in years. The experiment is on. If Newton is successful, the NFL will fundamentally change.''
-- New tweeter @CollinsworthNBC, NBC's Cris Collinsworth, on ... well, you can figure it out. Good observation.

Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/peter_king/05/08/mmqb/index.html#ixzz1LrB11GhK



Kind of blows my mind how short sighted Collinsworth is. In the NFL a QB adapts to the game, the game does not adapt to the QB. I think the same things were said about JaMarcus Russell when he was drafted.

I wouldn't say you are entirely accurate there. The game has adapted to QBs with more spread, a lot of shorter passing games popping up, etc. At the same point, JaMarcus Russell WASN'T successful, so obviously he didn't change the game.

SolidGold
05-09-2011, 08:14 AM
If you look at QB sucess in the NFL it is from the pocket. Vick had to adapt his game, once he went to philly and played within the pocket he became deadly.

The Spread has made its way to the NFL, but its spreading out defenses and letting receivers make plays which was not the offense run at Auburn, which featured the run-option as well. The run-option in the spread will knock a QB out in the NFL in no time. The Pats, Packers and Eagles are great examples of how to run the spread in the NFL. IMO Aaron Rodgers is the model for the spread QB in the NFL.

Newton's success in the NFL will be dependent on his growth as a passer, if he can develop that part of his game than he has a chance to be a good player.

bucfan12
05-09-2011, 08:29 AM
If you look at QB sucess in the NFL it is from the pocket. Vick had to adapt his game, once he went to philly and played within the pocket he became deadly.

The Spread has made its way to the NFL, but its spreading out defenses and letting receivers make plays which was not the offense run at Auburn, which featured the run-option as well. The run-option in the spread will knock a QB out in the NFL in no time. The Pats, Packers and Eagles are great examples of how to run the spread in the NFL. IMO Aaron Rodgers is the model for the spread QB in the NFL.

Newton's success in the NFL will be dependent on his growth as a passer, if he can develop that part of his game than he has a chance to be a good player.

Yeah, even though the NFL is adapting to the 'spread', it's no where near the gimmick offenses that Newton or Tebow ran in college. It's just that teams are running more 3 and 4 WR sets.

Newton has the same questions Vince Young had coming out. Newton has a bigger arm, but never made the coverage reads or NFL type throws he needs to make. His accuracy is over blown. Too many screens and easy throws with open guys at Auburn. That won't happen and he'll have to make difficult throws in closing windows. He'll struggle with that early on and the question remains, can he overcome that.

He won't be able to run over players like he did in college. Maybe at 1st, like Young, but as defenses contain him in that department, he'll have to throw, especially on the run. Roethlisbuerger, McNair and Freeman, those guys can make things happen with their feet and shed defenders and make those throws. Newton has the size to shed defenders and avoid sacks as well, so the talent is there. I just don't see the mentality in ability to read defenses.

TimmG6376
05-09-2011, 09:47 AM
The fact that we are seeing more spread in the NFL has little to do with catering the skill set of incoming QBs and more to do with the normal evolution of the NFL game.

Defenses are constantly adapting and finding ways to stop offensive schemes. Offenses must in turn adapt to find ways to attack those defenses. When you add in rule changes that restrict how physical CBs can be with WRs, it just makes sense to spread out with 3 or 4 WRs/TEs and attack the nickel and dime DBs.

I'm not sure Cam Newton really gets how complex NFL offenses are yet. When he said he took offense to the Auburn scheme being simple, I chuckled. It may not be a High School scheme but compared to the NFL it might as well be.

He's going to have to learn to get the play from the sideline and relay it to the entire offense. He'll have to read the defense, make protection adjustments, and audible out of bad plays. It is going to be a while before he is able to do all of that considering the blank stare he gave Gruden when asked about the verbage used at Auburn.

regoob2
05-09-2011, 10:10 AM
How many Super Bowls have run first QBs won?

hockey619
05-09-2011, 10:25 AM
He's going to have to learn to get the play from the sideline and relay it to the entire offense. He'll have to read the defense, make protection adjustments, and audible out of bad plays. It is going to be a while before he is able to do all of that considering the blank stare he gave Gruden when asked about the verbage used at Auburn.

im sorry but i cant resist: really? this is one of his potential 'flaws?'

i find it hard to believe that someone that got picked first overall might have trouble repeating something he just heard spoken into his ear. the rest is legit questions but that first part is hilarious. I hope for carolina's sake he can at least repeat play calls he just freaking heard haha

TimmG6376
05-09-2011, 11:04 AM
im sorry but i cant resist: really? this is one of his potential 'flaws?'

i find it hard to believe that someone that got picked first overall might have trouble repeating something he just heard spoken into his ear. the rest is legit questions but that first part is hilarious. I hope for carolina's sake he can at least repeat play calls he just freaking heard haha

He didn't have to at Auburn. The play came from the sideline to the entire team. They rarely worked from a huddle. Each player was responsible for looking to the sideline to get the play. So until we've seen him do it, yes I think it is a valid question.

TimmG6376
05-09-2011, 11:07 AM
And NFL verbage is like a foreign language

SolidGold
05-09-2011, 11:36 AM
How many Super Bowls have run first QBs won?

I agree with you to a point but I don't necessarily think Newton is a run first QB, but he did rely on that part of his game in college due to the offense he played in. I think most of us know that his running ability with be diminished in the NFL.

It just baffles me people see someone who is a supposed expert analyst be so short sighted and not look back on history before making a statement like this. Why did he not have the same praise for Tebow? They are the same type of QB, both physical specimens with questions about how they would translate to the NFL. I think any QB who was labeled as mobile coming into the league that had any success realized that they had to learn an offense and make most of their plays within the pocket. Steve Young, McNabb, Vick, Culpepper all had to learn to play within the pocket and become passers to realize their potential.

Newton's best bet would be to model his game after Roethlisberger, the QB he compares the most too, use his sheer strength and size to be able to have defenders slip off him while he is able to improvise behind the line of scrimmage making throws down field (which is easier said than done).

yodabear
05-09-2011, 11:51 AM
And that is a mega sized if. Like someone said, I am concerned about Newton and his ability to run an offense. This is not Auburn, the play call is not QB Option Left or Right half the time like it was at Auburn. There is reason to worry.

phlysac
05-09-2011, 03:24 PM
How many Super Bowls have run first QBs won?

The only issue with your premise is the argument over who is and who isn't a "run first QB."

Being a 49ers-junkie I remember the boatload of people that said Steve Young wouldn't succeed because he was "run first."

It's unfortunate, but people still tend to have vastly differing opinions as to which QBs fall into the aforementioned category.

Ness
05-09-2011, 05:26 PM
How many Super Bowls have run first QBs won?

I don't think any quarterback that comes into the NFL runs an offense designed for him to run first.

D-Unit
05-09-2011, 06:07 PM
Collinsworth will be right if Newton doesn't rely on his arm and only finds success running AND his team wins. If Newton elevates his passing game, then he will have simply conformed to the NFL norm, not the other way around.

niel89
05-09-2011, 06:35 PM
How is Newton revolutionary? He is an outstanding prospect in terms of size and athletic ability, but there is only one real running threat at QB in the NFL, and even then Vick had to adapt himself to being a normal QB and use his running as a secondary tool.

What would really be revolutionary would be a guy with as little experience as Newton having success in the early part of his career. The guy has only 1 year of quality college experience.

J-Mike88
05-09-2011, 10:38 PM
Cam Newton was a terrible pick, no doubt in my mind. He's not a great passer.
He might be a decent passer. At best.

The NFL is a pass-first league. It's led by QBs yes, but not QBs who are runners. It's a passing league.

Cam Newton is not a great passer. It's as simple as that. I don't think anyone here thinks Cam Newton can possibly become a great passing QB. How about good? By good, do you think he can become a top-10 passer?

How about top-20 passer of the football?
Accuracy and reads.

I see no chance in hell. The best he could possibly do would be what Vince Young has done.
The worst? Just above Jamarcus Russell and Akili Smith.

Watching the path of Tim Tebow and Cam Newton going forward will be vewwwy intawesting. I love Tebow but I don't think he can ever become an above-average passer, and that's what it takes in today's NFL. And tomorrow's NFL. It amazes me that there are still some teams who get suckered by the athletic ability of QBs who are no better passers of the football than typical 3rd string, career-journeymen.

dunagan15
05-09-2011, 11:56 PM
How many Super Bowls have run first QBs won?

this, nuff said

FUNBUNCHER
05-10-2011, 01:03 AM
People don't put Cam and Tebow in the same box as reaches to be successful NFL QBs because in part Newton's throwing motion and mechanics are much cleaner than Tebow's. Also Newton was a more dynamic and fluid runner than Tebow in college, as Cam generally looked to juke a defender and run by him, whereas Tebow was more inclined to truck a LB/DB.

Why is it that people don't see Newton developing into a McNabb/Cunningham/McNair/Rich Gannon level player instead of always falling back to this default that Newton will become the next Jamarcus Russell(what's even similar about their games??) or VY??

Paid NFL analysts IMO are short-sighted.
If Cam Newton ever comes close to realizing his enormous upside, he's going to be a combo of Roethlisberger and Randall Cunningham, a guy who's physicality and mobility will allow him to buy time in the pocket to allow receivers to get open, or tuck the ball and rush for 25+ yards.

There are several QBs throughout the history of the NFL who had a similar skillset to Newton, the difference being that Cam is 6'5, 250#.

Only thing 'revolutionary' about Cam IMO is that he's more of a running threat outside of the pocket than Big Ben and he's bigger than any previous scrambling NFL QBs.

Ultimately, he's going to be judged not on his physical tools, but whether or not he can win a championship in the NFL with all that ability, or at least turn Carolina into a perennial contender.

Because Malzahn ran Cam like an option QB, IMO fans mistakenly assume it's Newton's instinct to run. If you study his history back to HS, that's simply not the case.

Cam never ran for more than 450 yards in any season in HS, his impact was as a passer first. This wasn't the case for Vick and VY when they were preps.
The fact that he was such a great athlete at the QB position inclined college HCs to see his potential threat as a runner, but I still don't believe that's hardwired into his DNA as a QB.

SolidGold
05-10-2011, 06:48 AM
People don't put Cam and Tebow in the same box as reaches to be successful NFL QBs because in part Newton's throwing motion and mechanics are much cleaner than Tebow's. Also Newton was a more dynamic and fluid runner than Tebow in college, as Cam generally looked to juke a defender and run by him, whereas Tebow was more inclined to truck a LB/DB.

Why is it that people don't see Newton developing into a McNabb/Cunningham/McNair/Rich Gannon level player instead of always falling back to this default that Newton will become the next Jamarcus Russell(what's even similar about their games??) or VY??

Paid NFL analysts IMO are short-sighted.
If Cam Newton ever comes close to realizing his enormous upside, he's going to be a combo of Roethlisberger and Randall Cunningham, a guy who's physicality and mobility will allow him to buy time in the pocket to allow receivers to get open, or tuck the ball and rush for 25+ yards.

There are several QBs throughout the history of the NFL who had a similar skillset to Newton, the difference being that Cam is 6'5, 250#.

Only thing 'revolutionary' about Cam IMO is that he's more of a running threat outside of the pocket than Big Ben and he's bigger than any previous scrambling NFL QBs.

Ultimately, he's going to be judged not on his physical tools, but whether or not he can win a championship in the NFL with all that ability, or at least turn Carolina into a perennial contender.

Because Malzahn ran Cam like an option QB, IMO fans mistakenly assume it's Newton's instinct to run. If you study his history back to HS, that's simply not the case.

Cam never ran for more than 450 yards in any season in HS, his impact was as a passer first. This wasn't the case for Vick and VY when they were preps.
The fact that he was such a great athlete at the QB position inclined college HCs to see his potential threat as a runner, but I still don't believe that's hardwired into his DNA as a QB.

Funbuncher, all good points...and the fact he probably does not consider himself a run first QB affirms the fact that he will make sure he plays from within the pocket just like all successful NFL QBs do (ie. adapting to the NFL game, not the other way around), therefore negating Collinsworth's comments. Newton isn't much different than Culpepper who was 6'4 260 and was a pass first QB who ran when he had to. I just wish these analysts got put to task more before speaking/tweeting out of their a* *. I hate the fact that journalists/analysts are rarely held accountable for stupid knee jerk comments (other than any non-PC statements).

OzTitan
05-11-2011, 10:53 PM
I don't know a QB can really "change" QB'ing in the NFL. We already have some great QBs who are pretty good on their feet and effectively add that dimension to the field. They might not pull off a 30y TD scramble very often if at all, but I don't think that's a realistic expectation out of a good QB.

A QB who can pass well is going to take scrambling opportunities away from himself. Scrambling comes about in the NFL mostly due to broken plays. A better passer will have fewer of those, probably. Also, if he is a good passer, the team is probably not going to want to call designed runs etc - yeah a 30y scramble looks great but a standard downfield pass is probably going to be just as effective, not to mention safer for the QB.

I'm not saying a QB can't come along and be a great passer while also possessing elite scrambling skills, I just don't think in the real world there is room in the NFL for both to be on constant display. Definitely not enough to "change" or "revolutionize" the position. Cam has to be a good passer to be a good NFL QB, imo, and if that becomes true, he won't be asked to scramble much and will find himself relying less and less on his legs. He might still become the best dual threat we've had in recent memory, but I don't think in real terms that necessarily translates into a major improvement to some of the mobile guys already scattered in the top 10 QB rankings today.

Once he has developed these assumed passing skills, he'd probably be the type of QB who picks up a 1st down here and there on the ground and, instead of gaining yards on the ground so much, translates his scrambling into behind the LOS escaping abilities. These would compliment his passing more so than stand on their own.

Ness
05-11-2011, 11:17 PM
Cam Newton was a terrible pick, no doubt in my mind. He's not a great passer.
He might be a decent passer. At best.

The NFL is a pass-first league. It's led by QBs yes, but not QBs who are runners. It's a passing league.

Cam Newton is not a great passer. It's as simple as that. I don't think anyone here thinks Cam Newton can possibly become a great passing QB. How about good? By good, do you think he can become a top-10 passer?

How about top-20 passer of the football?
Accuracy and reads.

I see no chance in hell. The best he could possibly do would be what Vince Young has done.
The worst? Just above Jamarcus Russell and Akili Smith.

Watching the path of Tim Tebow and Cam Newton going forward will be vewwwy intawesting. I love Tebow but I don't think he can ever become an above-average passer, and that's what it takes in today's NFL. And tomorrow's NFL. It amazes me that there are still some teams who get suckered by the athletic ability of QBs who are no better passers of the football than typical 3rd string, career-journeymen.

If Steve McNair can do it, then Newton can. McNair came from a spread system at Alcorn State for crying out loud. Later in his career he became a pretty good passer. As long as Newton has the will, he might end up being decent at passing the football.

gpngc
05-18-2011, 02:52 PM
^I was just going to bring up the same example.

McNair was known more for his scrambling ability, but developed into a proficient passer as his career went on.

There's no reason to think Newton couldn't have a similar career progression.

cvv84
05-18-2011, 04:54 PM
I wouldn't say you are entirely accurate there. The game has adapted to QBs with more spread, a lot of shorter passing games popping up, etc. At the same point, JaMarcus Russell WASN'T successful, so obviously he didn't change the game.

Its too bad he didn't change the game. I would've loved to see 300 lbs QBs under center :\