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View Full Version : Who's the biggest bust of all time?


Victory X
05-09-2011, 10:25 PM
I think it's pretty clear who the top 2 candidates are.

J-Mike88
05-09-2011, 10:31 PM
I still believe factoring everything in, Tony Mandarich is the biggest bust of all time.
Why?

Well here's why:

That 1989 draft was historically awesome. You had 4 Hall of Fame picks in the first 5 choices. You couldn't go wrong if you were lucky enough to have a top 5 pick that year. That is unless you went with the blocker.
Or, the obviously-on-steroids blocker.

The #1 pick- Aikman
#3- Barry Sanders
#4- Derrick Thomas
#5- Deion Sanders

Those were guys who were unbelievable... Barry might have been the greatest ever. Deion was the best cover-corner ever. Derrick Thomas was an absolute terror off the edge sacking QBs like the Kardashian's sack bruthaz.

And Aikman won 3 Super Bowls.

The Packers, with that #2 pick, got nothing but smelly, stinky, dog s**t with their pick of the blocker.

Hurricanes25
05-09-2011, 10:34 PM
I'll go with Mandarich for the reasona J-Mike listed above.

boknows34
05-10-2011, 02:02 AM
Mandarich in 1989 before the draft.

http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2008/1003/pg2_a_workout_300.jpg

Mind you, he's now making a very nice life for himself in Arizona working as a Glamour Photographer. From being one of the NFL's greatest ever busts, he now spends all day taking photos of hot chicks' busts. Nice work Tony!! :)

http://www.mandarichmodels.com/about-us/about-tony-mandarich-professional-photographer

http://www.mandarichmodels.com/galleries/glamour-gallery

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2707/4319579785_950638806e.jpg

http://mit.zenfs.com/209/2011/04/TonyMandarichTheseDays.jpg

Nice article about his new career.

http://liveflashscore.com/tony-mandarich-is-enjoying-life-behind-the-camera/

Good luck to him. Somehow I don't think we'll hearing about a similar success story with JaSkittles in 20 years.

boknows34
05-10-2011, 02:11 AM
UPwhAMD1He8

BEtp8nY-oA0

Caulibflower
05-10-2011, 03:33 AM
You can't say it was Mandarich because of who was drafted around him. That just makes it worse on a "what-if" level, because the Packers could've had other players who were so much better. Busts are failed investments, and when you look at which players gave the least (or took the most, as the case may be) from the team that drafted them, you can't look farther than JaMarcus. Easily the biggest contract of anyone mentioned, and after three seasons he's not even on a roster. He had the one mediocre season, whereas Leaf can't even claim that, but his failure was borderline surreal given the amount of talent he had, the amount of money he was paid, and how little he cared. Leaf was certainly a headcase, but I don't think there's a player that's really on Russell's level as far as top draft picks that just didn't seem to give a **** about playing in the NFL.

SolidGold
05-10-2011, 06:52 AM
Jamarcus Russell hands down. He got paid something like 31 million guaranteed. He never cared about the game, never put an ounce of effort into getting better, screwed over a whole franchise (the Raiders are also to blame for not doing proper research).

J-Mike88
05-10-2011, 06:52 AM
You can't say it was Mandarich because of who was drafted around him. That just makes it worse on a "what-if" level, because the Packers could've had other players who were so much better.

Busts are failed investments.....

Easily the biggest contract of anyone mentioned, and

.....the amount of money he was paid, and .....
Actually, I think you can. Why? Because it is fact. It really happened.
The 4 clearcut players the Packers had to choose from, 3 became Hall of Famers. One failed out in less time than Jamarcus Russell.

And he (Mandarich) was paid more money than Barry Sanders, Deion, and Derrick Thomas. Not only did he suck, he robbed the Packers. Had the Packers taken Barry Sanders to go along with Sterling Sharpe, oh my....

That, my friends, is THE Colossal Bust!

Nalej
05-10-2011, 07:30 AM
Didn't Mandarich go on to be a decent guard though?
If I'm picking an all time bust, I'm picking someone who was out of the league quick
With that said, I go Ryan Leaf. So emotional and immature.

K Train
05-10-2011, 08:40 AM
this should be russell in a blowout, even just based on how much more money he made than leaf

CJSchneider
05-10-2011, 09:14 AM
Russel and it aint even close.

MassNole
05-10-2011, 10:06 AM
I still believe factoring everything in, Tony Mandarich is the biggest bust of all time.
Why?

Well here's why:

That 1989 draft was historically awesome. You had 4 Hall of Fame picks in the first 5 choices. You couldn't go wrong if you were lucky enough to have a top 5 pick that year. That is unless you went with the blocker.
Or, the obviously-on-steroids blocker.

The #1 pick- Aikman
#3- Barry Sanders
#4- Derrick Thomas
#5- Deion Sanders

Those were guys who were unbelievable... Barry might have been the greatest ever. Deion was the best cover-corner ever. Derrick Thomas was an absolute terror off the edge sacking QBs like the Kardashian's sack bruthaz.

And Aikman won 3 Super Bowls.

The Packers, with that #2 pick, got nothing but smelly, stinky, dog s**t with their pick of the blocker.

Gotta agree, especially given the hype around him. That said Leaf is a close second because of how dearly and stupidly the Chargers paid to trade up.

J-Mike88
05-10-2011, 10:06 AM
Didn't Mandarich go on to be a decent guard though?
Not for the Packers, the team that selected him #2 overall, and made him the highest paid OL of all-time, and selected him over 3 Hall of Famers.

The pick turned out to be a bust, despite him becoming something of a journeymen OG in Indy for a few years at least.

King Carls 5 Year Plan
05-10-2011, 10:09 AM
i guess we're arguing over the tallest midget. they all sucked and were complete busts for being picked that early. However, my vote is for Jamarcus Russell and here is why.

Mandarich for a failure of epic proportions. he flamed out very quickly. he then took some time off in rehab and made a comeback with the Indianapolis Colts between 1996-1998. he started 26 strait games at RT & RG for the Colts in '97 & '98 before retiring because of a shoulder injury. that's 2 teams that gave him a chance and 1 that he had some success with. i think some of you voting for him have your yellow colored glasses on and forget that he had a mildly productive career after he flamed out in Packland. #3 bust of all time, IMO.

Ryan Leaf was another colossal failure. i can't believe that some scouts actually like him better than Peyton because he was more physically gifted. he was immature and his head was way to squishy to make it in the NFL. he lasted only 4 years, but with 2 different teams. he was as inaccurate as they come and made terrible decisions on and off the field. for some reason Dallas saw something more in him and gave him a chance to redeem himself in 2001. he actually played in 4 games and started 3, unsuccessfully. all time bust #2, IMO.

JaMarcus Russell was the all time busts of all time busts. he wasn't really a developed QB at the collegiate level. he had a HUGE game against Notre Dame in the Sugar Bowl. Al Davis decided he like his upside and made him the #1 overall pick in 2007. JaMarcus never had a love for the game nor the work ethic to prepare for the season or individual games. he played for only 3 seasons before Al got smart and cut his ass. since he was cut almost 1 year ago, he has had legal issues with the Purple Drank, a try out for another NFL team in which he showed up weighing 280 lbs and he was fired by his "life coach" because of lack of effort by Russell (his weight has ballooned up over 300 lbs according to some sources). this is a sad case of a young kid getting to much $ and pressure with no real ambition of making something of himself. he was completely passed over during the UFL draft and no NFL team has shown interest in him in nearly 1 year. his career as a QB is over. (my criteria for all time bust is length of career, productivity of career and how many chances did he get. if more teams take a chance on him, that means there is still something there to salvage.) JaMarcus Russell, all time bust #!.

J-Mike88
05-10-2011, 10:14 AM
It is hard to argue with Jamarcus Russell winning. The thing is, with me, is I never expected him to be any good so I have not been surprised at all.

I thought Leaf would be good.
I thought Couch would be good, and he looked good early on... I believe he looked better young than Sam Bradford did actually.

Splat
05-10-2011, 10:18 AM
Jamarcus Russell hands down. He got paid something like 31 million guaranteed. He never cared about the game, never put an ounce of effort into getting better.

He gets my vote as well.

I feel like with Leaf he just couldn't handle the NFL but Russell never even tried.

Bob Sanders Dreadlock
05-10-2011, 10:35 AM
Mike Phipps

Drafted 3rd overall by the Cleveland Browns. They traded all pro receiver Paul Warfield to obtain his draft rights. Before drafting Phipps Cleveland was one of the most dominant franchises in the NFL. They had a 26-15 record in the preceding three seasons Phipps became a starter, and they did not have a losing season since 1956. During his time in the NFL he threw 55 TD's to 108 INT's along with an abysmal 52.6 QB rating. Cleveland had to put up with Phipps for 7 seasons. Since Cleveland drafted him they became one of the blackholes of the NFL.

nepg
05-10-2011, 10:48 AM
Leaf as a bust is overrated. Russell...most sane people knew he wouldn't work out.

Saints-Tigers
05-10-2011, 10:49 AM
Leaf was much more highly though of than Russell coming out of college, you can tell people here weren't old enough to remember that.

Russell also was a better player in the NFL than Leaf was. His second season, prettty much outproduces Leaf's entire "career".

Not that Russell isn't a monumental bust, but this revisionist history on how highly thought of he was is maddening. There was still talk that he should go behind Brady Quinn up until draft day, and Leaf was a 1a prospect with Manning.

Leaf would have gone first easily over Russell if you put them in the same draft.

King Carls 5 Year Plan
05-10-2011, 11:51 AM
Leaf as a bust is overrated. Russell...most sane people knew he wouldn't work out.

Leaf was much more highly though of than Russell coming out of college, you can tell people here weren't old enough to remember that.

Russell also was a better player in the NFL than Leaf was. His second season, prettty much outproduces Leaf's entire "career".

Not that Russell isn't a monumental bust, but this revisionist history on how highly thought of he was is maddening. There was still talk that he should go behind Brady Quinn up until draft day, and Leaf was a 1a prospect with Manning.

Leaf would have gone first easily over Russell if you put them in the same draft.

i agree with you both that Leaf was more highly thought of than Russell. i was old enough to remember. however, Leaf did go #2 overall and JaMarcus did go #1. as many of us may have thought it was a bad idea, the decision maker in Oakland thought differently. he even fired his HC because Kiffin wanted to bench Russell. Russell got more of an opportunity to fail in Oakland than he would have received from any other NFL franchise because The Crypt Keeper is the ultimate ego maniac and refused to admit he was wrong. it literally took 2 HCs and 3 terrible years to realize what most of us figured out before the 2007 draft.

i think it's very close between these 2, Leaf and Russell, as to which one is the bigger bust. the idea that Leaf got another try with a diiferent team shows he had the talent. Russell will never get that opportunity (unless Oakland decides to recoup some of it's $ and let JaMarcus play somewhere on the OLine). he wasn't deserving of the #1 pick because he was fat and lazy at LSU. the idea that he was drafted #1 overall without the drive to become a good player makes him even worse than Leaf. at least Leaf tried and failed from the #2 spot. Russel failed from a higher slot and didn't even try to make it work. that is the deciding factor for me.

Saints-Tigers
05-10-2011, 01:13 PM
Leaf was more highly thought of, and produced less. Not close.

Saints-Tigers
05-10-2011, 01:17 PM
I just can't buy that someone is less of a bust because Peyton MAnning went before him. Russell would be third in that draft, and would have put up better numbers than Leaf.

Russell was NOT viewed as a dominating QB prospect. Just because he was first in a weak draft does NOT mean he would be first in any draft. People need to get past the #1 selection, because he'd have gone behind a bunch of guys if you put all the QBs in the same class.

I thought he was a good prospect (really underestimated how lazy he'd get), but he was NOT at the level of Leaf, and people are still glossing over that Russell actually had a semi productive season, something Leaf never had.

Watchman
05-10-2011, 01:40 PM
I have to go with Leaf because of what the Chargers had to give up in a trade just to get him. Russell got more money, but Leaf did as well for the time. The money aspect is all relative in my opinion.

Drafting Leaf cost the Chargers so much more than it cost the Raiders to draft Russell in terms of lost picks/players.

King Carls 5 Year Plan
05-10-2011, 01:53 PM
I just can't buy that someone is less of a bust because Peyton MAnning went before him. Russell would be third in that draft, and would have put up better numbers than Leaf.

Russell was NOT viewed as a dominating QB prospect. Just because he was first in a weak draft does NOT mean he would be first in any draft. People need to get past the #1 selection, because he'd have gone behind a bunch of guys if you put all the QBs in the same class.

I thought he was a good prospect (really underestimated how lazy he'd get), but he was NOT at the level of Leaf, and people are still glossing over that Russell actually had a semi productive season, something Leaf never had.

i get what your saying, but i have a completely different view point. being a higher selection DOES matter. i'm not saying he was the best prospect in that years draft, but a team though highly enough of him to make him the #1 overall pick and everything that goes along with it. the Chiefs have failed at many picks. Trezelle Jenkins, Sylvester Morris, Ryan Sims, but none of them are near the bust because they weren't drafted near as high as Russell, Leaf or Mandarich. the reason those 3 are in the running for biggest bust is because they were drafted so high. being drafted #1 is a big deal. it comes with $ and expectations. more so than being #2, even if only a little bit. you very well may have known (as most draftniks did) that Russell wasn't worth the pick, but Oakland did not and they had the choice, not you or anyone else. like i said, i think we're trying to pick the tallest midget. Leaf was a gifted QB that couldn't handle the pressure of being a QB in the NFL. Russell had all the physical tools to be a good QB, he just refused to try and become one. Both are monumental fails.

Mr. Goosemahn
05-10-2011, 02:33 PM
I'm going with Russell based on a couple of things.

1.) The money he got. He signed a six year, $61 million dollar contract with $31.5 million guaranteed. Neither Mandarich or Leaf got that amount of money. And not only have you lost the money, but you lost a ton of cap space too, so by not working out it sets your franchise back.

2.) He failed to do anything, and lost his athleticism. Leaf at least bounced around a bit in the league when the Chargers let him go, Russell hasn't had any type of football gig since.

3.) Legal issues. The fact that he's a codeine dealer just makes things worse.

4.) Just like the "Peyton Manning was next" is said for Ryan Leaf, or other guys for Mandarich, the Raiders missed out on four, maybe even five, players who are the best at their respective positions in the entire league: Calvin Johnson, Joe Thomas, Adrian Peterson, Patrick Willis, and Darrelle Revis. The Oakland Raiders would be an entirely different franchise had they traded back and/or drafted any of those five guys. Think of Revis playing alongside Nnamdi. Things could have been very different.

5.) Russell just never cared. Leaf is a coach right now and supposedly turned things around. Russell just keeps getting worse and worse. When the guy you hired to help you turn things around quits on you, you know you're in trouble.

Saints-Tigers
05-10-2011, 02:35 PM
Lmao wow, people really don't remember the Ryan Leaf meltdowns.

Saints-Tigers
05-10-2011, 02:37 PM
Since money is hte issue, any guy that wasn't drafted in the last few seasons can't be the biggest bust. That's what I'm hearing.

San Diego Chicken
05-10-2011, 02:47 PM
It's close between Leaf and Russell. Mandarich isn't in the top 5 for me. Honorable mention goes to Akili Smith and Vernon Gholston.

ElectricEye
05-10-2011, 03:22 PM
Mandarich isn't even in the picture here, regardless of who was drafted around him. It hurts like hell when a tackle busts, but nothing hurts an organization more than a quarterback who completely fails to live up to expectations. Nothing. Look at the Raiders and the Chargers after the Leaf era. It took YEARS for those teams to climb out of the basement because of just how much they had invested in those players.

While we're on the subject of investments; Leaf is the clear choice here because of that. The Chargers traded away two first round picks, a second, and a valuable offensive contributer at receiver and a dynamic kick return specialist in Eric Metcalf. Look at the record of the Chargers after Leaf and that trade because of it too; they didn't have a winning season for five seasons after it. The Packers won with Mandarich the year he was drafted and were on their feet again three seasons later.

Saints-Tigers
05-10-2011, 03:29 PM
What is this "Leaf bounced around" stuff too? The dude played 4 games for the Cowboys.

Anyone realize that Jamarcus played 6 more games than Leaf? JaMarcus is a huge bust, but people are forgetting about Leaf, the bust of all busts.

Seriously, Russell had just as many touchdowns in 2008 as Leaf had in his entire career, and he threw 13 less INTs in 15 LESS passes.

Russell played more games, was better in every statistical category, and again, wasn't as highly touted.

YES, Leaf was THAT bad, I know it's really hard to believe... hahaha

jrdrylie
05-10-2011, 03:55 PM
Looking straight by the numbers:

Ryan Leaf: 14 TDs, 36 INTs, 3666 yards, and a 50 QB Rating. 4-17 as a starter
JaMarcus Russell: 18 TDs, 23 INTs, 4083 Yards, and a 65.2 QB Rating. 7-18 as a starter

From a strictly numbers perspective, Leaf was worse. His numbers were worse. His record was worse. I think people forget just how bad Leaf was (or are too young to remember). Just look at how bad some of his starts were.

1-15, 4 yards, 2 INTs
4-15, 26 yards, 1 INT
7-18, 78 yards, 3 INTs
9-23, 78 yards, 1 INT

Leaf had 4 games where he had more touchdowns than interceptions. Russell had 8. Leaf had 3 games where he completed more than 60% of his passes. Russell 12. Leaf had 2 games with a QB rating over 80. Russell had 12.

Leaf was much more highly regarded coming out than Russell. Many people thought he was a better prospect than Peyton Manning. leaf was also substantially worse than Russell from a statistical perspective. You can talk about how much money Russell received, but San Diego traded up to get him which cost a pro bowl player, a future top-10 pick (could have been used on Chris McAlister, Daunte Culpepper, or Jevon Kearse),and a second rounder. He was also given a 11.25 million dollar signing bonus (the biggest ever for a rookie at the time) so it isn't like he came cheap. Add all that together and Leaf is a much bigger bust than Russell.

And to J-Mike. You say Mandarich was the biggest buts because of who was drafted around him. But there were many quality players drafted around Leaf too. Peyton Manning is a lock for the Hall of Fame and Charles Woodson might get there too. Both were top-five picks. Randy Moss, another future Hall of Famer, was drafted later in the round. Add in very good players like Keith Brooking, Greg Ellis, Fred Taylor, and Alan Faneca and Leaf fits the same criteria as Mandarich with the added bonus of being much worse.

San Diego Chicken
05-10-2011, 04:11 PM
Hard to say who was the better prospect coming out of college, Russell or Leaf. Leaf probably had the more impressive career taking Washington State to the Rose Bowl, but also Russell was described as the best physical prospect with the best arm of all time. I don't know. Like I said, it's close. I might even lean towards Leaf because I thought he'd be a pretty good player, but I was never ever sold on Russell.

jrdrylie
05-10-2011, 04:15 PM
Hard to say who was the better prospect coming out of college, Russell or Leaf. Leaf probably had the more impressive career taking Washington State to the Rose Bowl, but also Russell was described as the best physical prospect with the best arm of all time. I don't know. Like I said, it's close. I might even lean towards Leaf because I thought he'd be a pretty good player, but I was never ever sold on Russell.

It's not hard to say who was the better prospect. There was not a single person covering the draft who said they had Russell rated higher than they had Manning rated coming out of Tennessee. Yet there were many who though Leaf was a better prospect than Manning.

San Diego Chicken
05-10-2011, 04:25 PM
It's not hard to say who was the better prospect. There was not a single person covering the draft who said they had Russell rated higher than they had Manning rated coming out of Tennessee. Yet there were many who though Leaf was a better prospect than Manning.

That's been a draft myth that has lasted for a while. In reality, Manning was the clear cut #1 and Leaf was the clear #2. A few teams may have had Leaf higher, but they were outliers. Both San Diego and Indy had Manning at #1. San Diego wanted to trade up to #1, but Indianapolis refused to budge.

There was a story in SI back in 98 that asked a panel of experts who was the better prospect and every one of them chose Manning. I think these myths sprouted after the fact to give a little more pizzaz to the "what could have been" Ryan Leaf stories in the media.

Philliez01
05-10-2011, 04:27 PM
I'm not a big fan of using others who were drafted around someone to argue if they are a bust or not. We have no idea what happens if the Colts draft Leaf and the Bolts got Manning (hypothetically). We don't know what would happen, no matter how great of career there has been.

To measure colossal busts (just laughed for about a minute by saying that aloud), you have to look at the implications they caused a franchise. Look what happened when the Saints went all in for Ricky Williams? Did the lack of draft picks hurt them or did Ricky help them more?

I'm not suggesting Ricky Williams was a bust at all, I'm just using him as an example.

Look what happened to San Diego when Leaf got there. He was a headache with temper tantrums and he couldn't even keep Craig Whelihan and Moses Moreno behind him on the depth chart. His stats are awful and there weren't many flashes of the prospect he was coming out of college. Also the Chargers were three years removed from a playoff appearance when they drafted Leaf. They didn't get back till 03/04 (can't remember which year they got back).

JaMarcus Russell on the other hand was seen as a high-end prospect BUT he wasn't exactly as blue-chip as Leaf looked to be. The Raiders last went to the playoffs in 2002 and haven't back since. But Russell was such a huge bust and it didn't really phase them because they looked to be a playoff contender for a while this season. It looks like they are bouncing back. Oakland had/has much bigger problems than the drafting of JaMarcus Russell. There were coach firings, questionable draft selections and odd free-agent signings.

I'd say in the grand scheme of things, I think Leaf was a bigger bust than Russell. Russell hurt himself and his team, but they moved on quick. I'm sure the selection of Leaf hurt the Chargers long-term more than JR did.

Just my .02

Bucs_Rule
05-10-2011, 06:18 PM
Hard to say who was the better prospect coming out of college, Russell or Leaf. Leaf probably had the more impressive career taking Washington State to the Rose Bowl, but also Russell was described as the best physical prospect with the best arm of all time. I don't know. Like I said, it's close. I might even lean towards Leaf because I thought he'd be a pretty good player, but I was never ever sold on Russell.

Ryan leaf had completion percentage was 54%. Russell's 62

Crazy_Chris
05-10-2011, 06:48 PM
I just can't buy that someone is less of a bust because Peyton MAnning went before him. Russell would be third in that draft, and would have put up better numbers than Leaf.

Russell was NOT viewed as a dominating QB prospect. Just because he was first in a weak draft does NOT mean he would be first in any draft. People need to get past the #1 selection, because he'd have gone behind a bunch of guys if you put all the QBs in the same class.
I thought he was a good prospect (really underestimated how lazy he'd get), but he was NOT at the level of Leaf, and people are still glossing over that Russell actually had a semi productive season, something Leaf never had.

That definatly was'nt a weak draft class especially at the very top. Calvin Johnson, Joe Thomas, and Adrian Peterson all were talents worthy of the #1 pick.

I voted for Ryan Leaf, but Jamarcus is a very close 2nd.

Splat
05-10-2011, 07:36 PM
That definatly was'nt a weak draft class especially at the very top. Calvin Johnson, Joe Thomas, and Adrian Peterson all were talents worthy of the #1 pick.

I voted for Ryan Leaf, but Jamarcus is a very close 2nd.

It was a pretty weak year for QB's JaMarcus Russell,Brady Quinn,Kevin Kolb,John Beck,Drew Stanton,Trent Edwards,Jeff Rowe,Troy Smith,Jordan Palmer and Tyler Thigpen all drafted and not one franchise QB.

You can some what make an argument for Kevin Kolb but I'm not sold on him being "the guy".

Mr. Goosemahn
05-10-2011, 08:11 PM
Since money is hte issue, any guy that wasn't drafted in the last few seasons can't be the biggest bust. That's what I'm hearing.

Nope, that's just what you want to hear. I said it's one of the reasons why I consider him a bigger bust than Ryan Leaf, not the only reason.

What is this "Leaf bounced around" stuff too? The dude played 4 games for the Cowboys.

Ryan Leaf spent time with the Buccaneers before signing with Dallas, and also spent time with Seattle after his stint in Dallas. I believe that having 3 teams in two years does count as "bouncing around a bit."

I just can't buy that someone is less of a bust because Peyton MAnning went before him. Russell would be third in that draft, and would have put up better numbers than Leaf.

You can't truly say that, it depends on each team's individual assessment. Sure, in hindsight it might appear so, but I think you're underestimating how enamored people were with JaMarcus' physical tools, which is also part of the reason why he's my #1 bust of all time.

Russell and Leaf were entirely different types of prospects. Leaf had a fantastic college career while having a poor post-season. He arrived overweight to the combine and dissed a meeting with the Colts. Russell was basically an off-season climber. While Quinn was being over-analyzed, people were falling in love with Russell's 4.83 at 260 lbs., his ridiculous arm strength, and his potential, which was through the roof.

Russell might have not been as dominant a college player as Leaf was, but Russell absolutely was a fantastic QB prospect when it came to potential, which again, was the main driving force for drafting him early. People knew he didn't have the stats Leaf had, or other QB's had, but they knew that if Russell developed he'd be a much more dominant QB than say, Brady Quinn. Unfortunately, it didn't work out, for either player.

Just because he was first in a weak draft does NOT mean he would be first in any draft. People need to get past the #1 selection, because he'd have gone behind a bunch of guys if you put all the QBs in the same class.

A weak class? The 2007 draft class was one of the strongest classes in recent years. Maybe not at the QB position, but definitely as a whole. The Raiders needed help virtually everywhere, so they could have taken any guy. You ask people right now to build a team with the top prospects by position from the past decade, and you're going to get Joe Thomas, Adrian Peterson, and Calvin Johnson on almost all of those lists. Russell also appears on some of them. And there are still other players who panned out really well in the NFL, as I've already mentioned.

There were a ton of people who said that players such as Calvin Johnson should go #1 overall, due to how rare and talented they were, and the fact that Russell was taken before them speaks volumes about what some people thought about him. Granted, it also speaks volumes about the Raiders front office, but that wasn't a bad pick at the time. They needed a QB, and Russell was probably the most physically gifted QB to come out in the past decade.

As for both their stats, Russell does have better numbers, but that still doesn't mean he was a better QB. In most of his wins, he had a lot of help from the running game, consisting of Darren McFadden, Justin Fargas, and Michael Bush.

I'm not saying Russell was a worse player than Leaf, I'm saying he's a bigger bust. To me, being a bust encompasses more than being a bad player. When people think about Ryan Leaf, they immediately think of Peyton Manning, and his locker room meltdown. But after those issues, Leaf didn't do anything. He never had any other meltdown, and teams were at least willing to give him a shot.

Russell other than two (bad) workouts after being released, there's been no mention of him whatsoever. He's been mentioned as a candidate in either the UFL, AFL, or CFL, but nothing's happened yet. His rights actually belong to the CFL's Hamilton Tiger-Cats. Furthermore, it's been discovered he's a frequent user of codeine and consumed "purple drank" during his tenure as an Oakland Raider, which incidentally is the shortest time a QB taken 1st overall spends with their original team.

JaMarcus was solid (and that's being generous) for a game here and there, but never a good QB. Furthermore, he set the Raiders franchise back just as much as Leaf did. The Chargers had an 8-8 record a year after Leaf left, and went 12-4 two years after that. The Raiders went 8-8 this year, and for all we know they could go 12-4 in two years.

All in all, Leaf failed as a quarterback, while Russell failed as both a football player and a person. Again, the fact his life coach severed all ties with him and asked him to leave the area shows this.

Jvig43
05-10-2011, 08:55 PM
Hhahahaha the packers have to have the biggest draft bust of all time. There is no topic the Packers dont come first in!


But seriously I went with Russell.

Complex
05-10-2011, 09:41 PM
Its clearly Ryan Leaf, I know Russell got paid more but every draft pick gets paid more now.

Saints-Tigers
05-10-2011, 11:31 PM
It was weak for QBs.

Russell had a very up and down off season leading up to the draft. He definitely would have gone after Leaf. Not close.

vikes_28
05-11-2011, 10:45 AM
Troy Williamson.

Monomach
05-11-2011, 11:25 AM
I still believe factoring everything in, Tony Mandarich is the biggest bust of all time.


Mandarich in college got the same reaction from me as Cushing: "Holy ****, why are they not testing this guy every day? I know he's eventually going to fail a test."

Monomach
05-11-2011, 11:38 AM
Leaf's my biggest bust. JaBust was a pretty big one, but he did more in the NFL than Leaf. I can't bring money into it because that can be written off as inflation. Had Leaf been drafted in 2007, he would have gone before Russell and would have gotten that crazy 2007 #1 money.

...and the meltdowns? KA-RAZY.

russie
05-12-2011, 10:03 PM
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f388/mrussie/tony-mandarich-sports-illustrated-cover-1989.jpg

show me where leaf or russell were called the best qb prospect ever

mandarich wins hands down

Iamcanadian
05-12-2011, 10:11 PM
There has been so many busts in round 1, it is impossible to label one over the other. Russell is current so people pick him but there are plenty of others that could be named.

J-Mike88
05-12-2011, 10:14 PM
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f388/mrussie/tony-mandarich-sports-illustrated-cover-1989.jpg

show me where leaf or russell were called the best qb prospect ever

mandarich wins hands down
Thank you. That is correct. He fooled everyone, except Dallas. But they wanted him too.

doingthisinsteadofwork
05-12-2011, 10:18 PM
Stats mean nothing really. The opinions of owners and coaches mean a whole lot more. Leaf played on other teams. Since Jamarcus has been cut he's yet to be signed anywhere.WHen a team signs Patrick Ramsey over you, your career in the NFL is over.

deepthoughtlife
05-14-2011, 01:27 AM
The problem with this topic is that the actual biggest busts in history aren't the ones you remember. What about the first rounders that only stay in the league for two years, never play, and then get cut because random scrub 53 is better than them? Two years and out with nothing but their signing bonus and a wasted pick to show for it. Aren't those actually the bigger busts?

If we're going with the big names, I agree with those saying Mandarich isn't even close. If Mandarich is bust #1, that makes Robert Gallery #1b. Any player who sticks in the NFL can't be the biggest bust of all time.

Between Leaf and Russel, it has to be Leaf, because Russel was not nearly a great prospect. He wasn't even a good college player. He was on the verge of losing his job, in college, because he wasn't good enough. There were a significant number who thought he declared entirely because he was going to lose the job. The predraft word on Russel was that he wasn't a great player, merely the highest rated QB due to size and arm strength. He was a desperation pick at number one.

Monomach
05-14-2011, 05:00 PM
He wasn't even a good college player. He was on the verge of losing his job, in college, because he wasn't good enough. There were a significant number who thought he declared entirely because he was going to lose the job.
LOLWUT


All-SEC first team
Sugar Bowl MVP
Second in SEC in yards from scrimmage
SEC offensive player of the week x3
SI All-American honorable mention

I can't remember a single person even joking that he could lose his job if he stayed in school.

phlysac
05-14-2011, 05:11 PM
LOLWUT
I can't remember a single person even joking that he could lose his job if he stayed in school.

Yeah, unless this thread is about Jevan Snead :)

7DnBrnc53
05-18-2011, 06:19 PM
Mike Phipps

Drafted 3rd overall by the Cleveland Browns. They traded all pro receiver Paul Warfield to obtain his draft rights. Before drafting Phipps Cleveland was one of the most dominant franchises in the NFL. They had a 26-15 record in the preceding three seasons Phipps became a starter, and they did not have a losing season since 1956. During his time in the NFL he threw 55 TD's to 108 INT's along with an abysmal 52.6 QB rating. Cleveland had to put up with Phipps for 7 seasons. Since Cleveland drafted him they became one of the blackholes of the NFL.

That trade was the last straw in Cleveland's downfall, but the process started in the early-60's. Modell fired Paul Brown, and rookie RB phenom Ernie Davis died. Then came Jim Brown's retirement, the trading of second-year RB Ron Johnson to the Giants for Homer Jones, and the Phipps trade. The last two coincided with the start of Chuck Noll's tenure in Pittsburgh, and the rise of the powerful Steelers.

Back to busts, though.

This guy isn't the biggest bust ever, but he should be in the top-5:

Charles Rogers.

What the heck happened to him? He was a sure-fire star.

Walt Patulski, the #1 overall pick in 1972 by Buffalo, is another candidate. He had a less than stellar career, and was out of football six years later.

jack1077
05-30-2011, 07:36 AM
Yeah, Jamarcus. At least Leaf cares about football. Mandarich cares about football. They went about things the wrong the wrong way and paid the price, but Jamarcus is the opposite of what people like in a story. All the talent in the world, but no heart.

FUNBUNCHER
05-30-2011, 09:27 AM
It's close between Leaf and Russell. Mandarich isn't in the top 5 for me. Honorable mention goes to Akili Smith and Vernon Gholston.

Akili Smith deserves some mention.

Both Leaf and Russell were in the league I believe longer than Akili.

MucBuc
05-30-2011, 09:42 AM
While Russell cost the Raiders a #1 pick and the resulting pile of cash, I'd have to go with Leaf here. He not only cost the Chargers money (his signing bonus was the largest ever given to a draft pick, back then) and their #3 pick in 1998, they also gave away their second-rounder in '98, their first-rounder in '99 (which turned out to be the 8th overall pick) and Pro-Bowl returner Eric Metcalf, along with a linebacker to move up ONE spot for Leaf.

MucBuc
05-30-2011, 09:48 AM
Akili Smith deserves some mention.

Both Leaf and Russell were in the league I believe longer than Akili.

Not really. Smith played in 4 seasons, 1999-2002. Same as Leaf, and one more season than Russell.
However, he played in less games (22) than Russell (31) and Leaf (25) during his NFL tenure.

Nalej
05-30-2011, 01:13 PM
I thought Akili Smith was going to be the next big thing.
Started a franchise in Madden with the Bengals just so I could light it up with him.
...and I did... he just never did... smh

jack1077
05-30-2011, 06:58 PM
I thought Akili Smith was going to be the next big thing.
Started a franchise in Madden with the Bengals just so I could light it up with him.
...and I did... he just never did... smh

Haha, i did the same thing with Jarmarcus in my game. I didn't think he would be anything, but 99 thp in the old games was impossible to get. So i drafted him in the fantasy draft in like the 18th round and went on to win 15 straight superbowls. The Green Bay Packers led by that fat sack of ****.

7DnBrnc53
06-02-2011, 08:28 AM
I thought Akili Smith was going to be the next big thing.
Started a franchise in Madden with the Bengals just so I could light it up with him.
...and I did... he just never did... smh

Akili Smith was a Leigh Steinberg production. That agent did a great selling job making chicken salad out of chicken ****, and guess who bought it?

That's right, the lowly Bengals. What a shock(lol).

That year was an example of how overeager teams are to find a franchise QB.

jrdrylie
06-02-2011, 08:49 AM
The fact that JaMarcus Russell is winning (or I guess you would say losing) this poll, especially by such a large margin, shows the youth of this forum. I guess a lot of you are too young to remember just how bad (both on and off the field) Leaf really was.

I was 12 during Leaf's first season. I unfortunately remember his entire career. Not once did Leaf show even the slightest glimmer of hope that he could eventually become even an average NFL quarterback. As bad as Russell was, he was at least serviceable during the 2008 season. That is much more than you could ever say about Leaf.

SativaDominant
06-02-2011, 10:31 AM
Akili Smith was a Leigh Steinberg production. That agent did a great selling job making chicken salad out of chicken ****, and guess who bought it?

That's right, the lowly Bengals. What a shock(lol).

That year was an example of how overeager teams are to find a franchise QB.

Eerily enough, I got that feeling with Tom Condon/Blaine Gabbert this year.