PDA

View Full Version : Denard Robinson, QB, Michigan


shylo3716
05-10-2011, 11:27 PM
Explosive as they come, needs to play some WR to get a feel for his NFL position. He has nothing to prove on the collegiate level. It is already said he will make a position change to WR. He will still play QB in Michigan's system, so for that matter he has nothing to gain or lose when it comes to his draft stock. He will be a 2nd Round pick, but I can actually see him sliding up in the 1st Round with a blazing 40 time since he is on the radar HEAVY.

http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/multimedia/photo_gallery/1009/cfb.heisman.watch.week3/images/denard-robinson.jpg

SRK85
05-10-2011, 11:31 PM
I say 5th round and he becomes a RB.

shylo3716
05-10-2011, 11:34 PM
I say 5th round and he becomes a RB.

No way he goes RB.....He is too much of a threat at WR than he would be at RB.

Victory X
05-10-2011, 11:36 PM
An injury free year would certainly help his stock.

CashmoneyDrew
05-10-2011, 11:39 PM
This is like the third time you've posted pretty much the same thing...

Also, what exactly do you mean when you say, "It is already said he will make a position change to WR. He will still play QB in Michigan's system, so for that matter he has nothing to gain or lose when it comes to his draft stock."

You're saying he's making a position change but will stay play the same position. Doesn't really make sense.

shylo3716
05-10-2011, 11:41 PM
This is like the third time you've posted pretty much the same thing...

Also, what exactly do you mean when you say, "It is already said he will make a position change to WR. He will still play QB in Michigan's system, so for that matter he has nothing to gain or lose when it comes to his draft stock."

You're saying he's making a position change but will stay play the same position. Doesn't really make sense.

NFL positional switch!

niel89
05-10-2011, 11:41 PM
He is a very explosive player but there are a lot a questions marks right now. I'm not so sure that he is in a hurry to leave.

Can he adapt to being a WR? I don't see him getting any real snaps at WR in college, so he is gonna have to learn a bunch of new stuff. He is a good enough athlete but being a great WR is in the details. Not saying he can't, he just doesn't have the experience yet.

He also isn't that big of a guy, listed at 6'0" 193 lbs, and has had a bunch of injuries. There were a ton of games that he didn't finish. It should be much less of an issue when he doesn't have to carry the ball a bunch like a runningback, but it still could be an issue.

2nd round could be a possibility after blowing up the combine/pro day but 1st seems like a stretch right now.

SRK85
05-10-2011, 11:51 PM
No way he goes RB.....He is too much of a threat at WR than he would be at RB.

Sorry I see him somewhat on the same level as Michael Robinson.

BuddyCHRIST
05-11-2011, 12:18 AM
Sorry I see him somewhat on the same level as Michael Robinson.

More of a WR build, Robinson was much thicker.

Definitely a great athlete, but I wouldn't project anything right now. I have no idea how he'll look at WR, he might be terrible. Looks like Josh Cribbs.

RaiderNation
05-11-2011, 02:07 AM
A faster Josh Cribbs potentially. I can see a team taking him in the 3rd if he is able to have another good year at Michigan and runs well at the combine.

Caulibflower
05-11-2011, 03:48 AM
Sorry I see him somewhat on the same level as Michael Robinson.

A faster Josh Cribbs potentially.

Are you guys crazy? He's a Devin Hester/Percy Harvin/Chris Johnson type. Those guys are both stocky, physical runners. Denard is almost graceful when he runs. It's all speed and elusiveness with him. Michael Robinson is playing fullback now, and Cribbs is close to 220 himself. Robinson is 30lbs lighter and runs 0.3 seconds faster in the 40. I don't see those comparisons at all, as far as playing style goes. I can see him doing some of the things Josh Cribbs, but you might as well be saying "a faster Josh Cribbs who is way skinnier and doesn't run like Josh Cribbs."

Caulibflower
05-11-2011, 04:29 AM
Also: Denard Robinson will be a first round pick.

underscore
05-11-2011, 05:23 AM
Also: Denard Robinson will be a first round pick.

In the UFL?

J-Mike88
05-11-2011, 06:42 AM
Also: Denard Robinson will be a first round pick.
Da Raidahz?

SolidGold
05-11-2011, 07:52 AM
Armanti Edwards?

Big Bird
05-11-2011, 07:57 AM
If Antwaan Randle El can only crack pick 60 after the insane career he had, which also featured stints on the diamond and hardcourt, while also showing that he could return (13 career returns, not much, but something), then Denard Robinson isn't cracking the 1st.

2nd Round is reasonable (if Pat White can go 2nd and Armanti Edwards 3rd, Denard deserves to go in that range).

jth1331
05-11-2011, 10:43 AM
Are you guys crazy? He's a Devin Hester/Percy Harvin/Chris Johnson type. Those guys are both stocky, physical runners. Denard is almost graceful when he runs. It's all speed and elusiveness with him. Michael Robinson is playing fullback now, and Cribbs is close to 220 himself. Robinson is 30lbs lighter and runs 0.3 seconds faster in the 40. I don't see those comparisons at all, as far as playing style goes. I can see him doing some of the things Josh Cribbs, but you might as well be saying "a faster Josh Cribbs who is way skinnier and doesn't run like Josh Cribbs."

Have you seen him line up and play WR? Devin Hester was a 2nd round pick and an average CB/WR when he was picked.
Percy Harvin was a WR and showed the ability to be a solid WR.
Chris Johnson was a starting RB and showed the ability to be a stud RB.
There is no way to compare Denard to them. I don't see him being able to play RB at all. Then, we have no idea how well he can play WR. He might be terrible running routes. If all he can do is return kicks/punts, he's a mid rounder at best.

Also: Denard Robinson will be a first round pick.

http://bluntobject.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/lol-wut.jpg

shylo3716
05-11-2011, 02:17 PM
Also: Denard Robinson will be a first round pick.

Da Raidahz?

I concur 2 times!

shylo3716
05-11-2011, 02:28 PM
Sorry I see him somewhat on the same level as Michael Robinson.

That is disrespectful.....Michael went from QB-RB-FB which I say is down the toilet.

A faster Josh Cribbs potentially. I can see a team taking him in the 3rd if he is able to have another good year at Michigan and runs well at the combine.

His ceiling in the draft is a 1st Rounder as a WR, latest he would go is 3rd at worst because he will be raw for the position.

RB which I highly doubt he would exercise that thought but he could be a 3rd-4th Rounder.

shylo3716
05-11-2011, 02:28 PM
I can see some Dante Hall in him as a slot man/KR

fear the elf
05-11-2011, 03:02 PM
That is disrespectful.....Michael went from QB-RB-FB which I say is down the toilet.

Why is that disrespectful? Because you don't agree with it?

The only thing he's proved so far is that he's athletic and FAST. The offense he played in last year did nothing to develop him as a passer and he obviously has no experience at any other position. He's highly developmental and unless he develops some NFL skills at a specific position, he won't go in the first.

BTW, I'm not saying he can't be great if he does eventually learn a position, I'm talking specifically about his draft stock.

K Train
05-11-2011, 03:06 PM
Why is that disrespectful? Because you don't agree with it?

The only thing he's proved so far is that he's athletic and FAST. The offense he played in last year did nothing to develop him as a passer and he obviously has no experience at any other position. He's highly developmental and unless he develops some NFL skills at a specific position, he won't go in the first.

BTW, I'm not saying he can't be great if he does eventually learn a position, I'm talking specifically about his draft stock.

matt jones was a first round pick without honing any nfl specific skills in college...and matt jones is white, so crazier things have happened

robinson has also showed hes terrific with the ball in his hands...that has alot to do with being athletic and fast but hes got vision and elusiveness too and thats an nfl specific skill

fear the elf
05-11-2011, 03:10 PM
matt jones was a first round pick without honing any nfl specific skills in college...and matt jones is white, so crazier things have happened

robinson has also showed hes terrific with the ball in his hands...that has alot to do with being athletic and fast but hes got vision and elusiveness too and thats an nfl specific skill

Obviously being white doesn't matter since he was 6'6 and 240 pounds and ran 4.37 and 4.40 at the combine. Also jumped 39.5" in the vert and a 10' 10" in the broad.

That's insane. He has 50 lbs and 6 inches on Denard.

K Train
05-11-2011, 03:12 PM
he still was drafted in the first though. imo jones was bigger but robinson is much more skilled of a football player

Ghost of Juice
05-11-2011, 03:14 PM
If he adds 15-20 lbs I could see him playing RB, otherwise he is a slot receiver. Either way he has a place somewhere in the NFL because few people are better than him with the ball in their hands.

fear the elf
05-11-2011, 03:14 PM
Eh. To me he's just another developmental athlete that didn't learn how to play football while being exploited for his natural athleticism.

He needs to learn the tricks of the trade before I think he has any success.

shylo3716
05-11-2011, 03:17 PM
There will be question marks about Denard at WR.

1.HANDS
2.route running
3.crossing the middle
4.taking contact

Big Bird
05-11-2011, 03:56 PM
he still was drafted in the first though. imo jones was bigger but robinson is much more skilled of a football player
Robinson maybe a more skilled football player, but he has still never played the position he will have to play in the NFL.

Matt Jones is at least 6 inches taller, about 50 lbs. heavier, yet put up similar numbers. Yes, Denard Robinson will probably crack 4.3's (hell, he did it in High School) and probably put up something near Matt Jones 40-Inch Vertical, but Denard is still undersized for the position and has no experience at Wide Receiver.

Denard Robinson doesn't belong in the 1st Round, period.

shylo3716
05-11-2011, 04:00 PM
Robinson maybe a more skilled football player, but he has still never played the position he will have to play in the NFL.

Matt Jones is at least 6 inches taller, about 50 lbs. heavier, yet put up similar numbers. Yes, Denard Robinson will probably crack 4.3's (hell, he did it in High School) and probably put up something near Matt Jones 40-Inch Vertical, but Denard is still undersized for the position and has no experience at Wide Receiver.

Denard Robinson doesn't belong in the 1st Round, period.

By all means 6'0'' 193 does not make you an undersized WR.

SchizophrenicBatman
05-11-2011, 04:05 PM
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_la2W1OaJGn8/SawC__VVZcI/AAAAAAAAAwU/s-YOVaMv40M/s400/0302armantiedwards.JPG

great pick imo

PossibleCabbage
05-11-2011, 04:49 PM
He won't even get a look as a QB by NFL teams, since can't even finish games at QB in the Big Ten. How high he goes is going to depend entirely on how NFL teams project him at the position they want him to play (probably WR). His stats aren't going to be especially meaningful to NFL teams, unless he improves his performance against defenses that feature more than a couple of NFL prospects (last year he had 201 and 192 combined yards against Iowa and Ohio State respectively, accounted for 1 TD between both of those games.)

JustDezIT
05-11-2011, 04:52 PM
Also: Denard Robinson will be a first round pick.

LOL. They dont televise football in Alaska, I see?

Big Bird
05-11-2011, 05:11 PM
By all means 6'0'' 193 does not make you an undersized WR.
Um, excuse me?

6-0 is a below average height, and at 193 lbs., he is skinny (if he is even either of those listings).

Let's take a look at some of Scott's scouting reports on some guys of similar size.

Randall Cobb-Kentucky
5-10 1/4
191 lbs.
"Merely average height and bulk with small frame."

Edmond Gates-Abilene Christian (basically the exact listed size as Denard)
5-11 3/4
193 lbs.
"Has average size at just 6’0, 189 pounds. Narrow and lean frame."

Vincent Brown-San Diego State
5-11 1/4
187 lbs.
"Thin, wiry frame and just doesn't have ideal bulk."

Do I need to continue, or do you get the point?

K Train
05-11-2011, 05:22 PM
6 foot isnt average...its very normal for a WR. "average height and frame" are used when simply ripping them apart as a prospect making the transistion to the pros. this "averageness" is being compared to those who have elite or tremendous height and bulk for the position.

the very best WRs are usually bigger guys, but i dont think anyone is thinking hes gonna be a top 5 wr. theres so many more effective 6 ft and under wrs than there are 6-3 and over ones

WCH
05-11-2011, 06:23 PM
Um, excuse me?

6-0 is a below average height, and at 193 lbs., he is skinny (if he is even either of those listings).


Not to be a jerk but "average" and "below average" are not the same thing. Scott clearly described two of the three guys as having "average" size.

Being "average" in size is not a bad thing. Plenty of effective NFL players have "average" size. That's what makes it the "average" size.

shylo3716
05-11-2011, 06:51 PM
Um, excuse me?

6-0 is a below average height, and at 193 lbs., he is skinny (if he is even either of those listings).

Let's take a look at some of Scott's scouting reports on some guys of similar size.

Randall Cobb-Kentucky
5-10 1/4
191 lbs.
"Merely average height and bulk with small frame."

Edmond Gates-Abilene Christian (basically the exact listed size as Denard)
5-11 3/4
193 lbs.
"Has average size at just 60, 189 pounds. Narrow and lean frame."

Vincent Brown-San Diego State
5-11 1/4
187 lbs.
"Thin, wiry frame and just doesn't have ideal bulk."

Do I need to continue, or do you get the point?

Denard does not have a lean or wiry frame. He has a nice build which I could see him adding more bulk to.

bucfan12
05-11-2011, 07:11 PM
I honestly don't know how he'd translate to the NFL. He's about 190 lbs and very fragile, so I don't think he can play RB.

He might need to add 15-20 lbs and not lose that 4.3=4.4 speed. Honestly, I can't see him doing much in the NFL.

JustDezIT
05-11-2011, 07:28 PM
Um, excuse me?

6-0 is a below average height, and at 193 lbs., he is skinny (if he is even either of those listings).

Let's take a look at some of Scott's scouting reports on some guys of similar size.

Randall Cobb-Kentucky
5-10 1/4
191 lbs.
"Merely average height and bulk with small frame."

Edmond Gates-Abilene Christian (basically the exact listed size as Denard)
5-11 3/4
193 lbs.
"Has average size at just 60, 189 pounds. Narrow and lean frame."

Vincent Brown-San Diego State
5-11 1/4
187 lbs.
"Thin, wiry frame and just doesn't have ideal bulk."

Do I need to continue, or do you get the point?


eeeehmm.... what?

You're implying he's undersized? .... Fail.

Even funnier, the "proof", if you want to call it that, of him being undersized clearly says everyone around his size and height has AVERAGE size. Not below average.

yodabear
05-11-2011, 07:32 PM
Da Raidahz?

This......was my thought haha.

shylo3716
05-11-2011, 07:41 PM
I honestly don't know how he'd translate to the NFL. He's about 190 lbs and very fragile, so I don't think he can play RB.

He might need to add 15-20 lbs and not lose that 4.3=4.4 speed. Honestly, I can't see him doing much in the NFL.

I really don't see how this would be possible. Your asking a guy who is 6'0 193 to get up to approx. 215lbs & not lose 4.3 speed. That is asking for a lot for him to maintain the speed with the size added.

keylime_5
05-11-2011, 08:13 PM
Denard's size if fine for a guy if he's gonna play WR in the NFL. Runningback and Quarterback is another story. There are plenty of guys smaller than him in the NFL who are impact players that don't have his speed.

shylo3716
05-11-2011, 08:33 PM
Denard's size if fine for a guy if he's gonna play WR in the NFL. Runningback and Quarterback is another story. There are plenty of guys smaller than him in the NFL who are impact players that don't have his speed.

QB is not an option in the NFL for him. It's not like he will pull a Tyrod and say hey I'm a QB, always have been and always will be. Denard is an experimental QB, he is someone who was thrown in there to make something happen. If I am correct he was recruited as a CB coming out of HS.

RB I don't believe he would be much of a threat then he would be at WR IMO. Wildcat RB?

Black Bolt
05-11-2011, 09:03 PM
Obviously being white doesn't matter since he was 6'6 and 240 pounds and ran 4.37 and 4.40 at the combine. Also jumped 39.5" in the vert and a 10' 10" in the broad.

That's insane. He has 50 lbs and 6 inches on Denard.

It's insane that Jones went in the first round at a position he never played.

PossibleCabbage
05-11-2011, 09:43 PM
It's insane that Jones went in the first round at a position he never played.

So if Jones going in the first as a WR is insane, what is suggesting that Robinson will go in the first as a WR?

Caulibflower
05-11-2011, 10:48 PM
LOL. They dont televise football in Alaska, I see?

I watched at least 5 Michigan games. Denard pulls away from defenses like I haven't seen since watching Chris Johnson's college highlights. It's like people are forgetting he ran for over 1700 yards last year. He was one of the best runners in college football. And unlike Tebow or Pat White, or any other college QB who's being looked at with his running in mind, Denard Robinson's 4.2-ish speed (yes, I think he will time that fast. 4.3's at the absolute lowest), he's going to be a hot commodity. If teams take Dexter McCluster in the 2nd, Matt Jones in the 1st, Antwaan Randle El in the 2nd, Reggie Bush in the 1st, Devin Hester in the 2nd, etc... Robinson belongs in that part of the draft as well. All those guys were expected to make position changes or contribute in multiple ways, and there are a number of Pro Bowls to be found among their resumes.


It's insane that Jones went in the first round at a position he never played.

Matt Jones' failures were the result of him having a cocaine problem. His last year with the Jags was on pace to be a 1000-yard season before he got hurt, if I remember correctly. Was he a fluid, polished receiver at that point? Certainly not. But he was productive, and it was on account of the same size and athleticism that got him drafted in the first place.

shylo3716
05-11-2011, 10:56 PM
I watched at least 5 Michigan games. Denard pulls away from defenses like I haven't seen since watching Chris Johnson's college highlights. It's like people are forgetting he ran for over 1700 yards last year. He was one of the best runners in college football. And unlike Tebow or Pat White, or any other college QB who's being looked at with his running in mind, Denard Robinson's 4.2-ish speed (yes, I think he will time that fast. 4.3's at the absolute lowest), he's going to be a hot commodity. If teams take Dexter McCluster in the 2nd, Matt Jones in the 1st, Antwaan Randle El in the 2nd, Reggie Bush in the 1st, Devin Hester in the 2nd, etc... Robinson belongs in that part of the draft as well. All those guys were expected to make position changes or contribute in multiple ways, and there are a number of Pro Bowls to be found among their resumes.

I could not agree anymore. You are on point.

nepg
05-11-2011, 11:46 PM
WR. He's very similar to Armanti Edwards (higher ceiling) and Josh Cribbs.

As a RB? No way. I mean, they might try it, but it's the wrong move. See: Woody Dantzler (or Bo Morgan before that). Even Michael Robinson is a massive failure compared to what he could be as a receiver.

JoeJoeBrown
05-11-2011, 11:48 PM
Matt Jones' failures were the result of him having a cocaine problem. His last year with the Jags was on pace to be a 1000-yard season before he got hurt, if I remember correctly. Was he a fluid, polished receiver at that point? Certainly not. But he was productive, and it was on account of the same size and athleticism that got him drafted in the first place.

Do they just have bowls of cocaine sitting in the lockerroom at Arkansas?

Caulibflower
05-11-2011, 11:49 PM
Do they just have bowls of cocaine sitting in the lockerroom at Arkansas?

Evidently. Or maybe it's a special treat for the quarterbacks.

borg9
05-12-2011, 12:13 AM
If Peter Warrick can be drafted in the top 4, Shoelace most definitely can be drafted in the first round.

Big Bird
05-12-2011, 12:19 AM
If Peter Warrick can be drafted in the top 4, Shoelace most definitely can be drafted in the first round.
Peter Warrick was an animal, AT Wide Receiver. He was also one of the greatest college football Wide Receivers of all-time.

How many times do conversion players need to fail before people get the point? Their success rate is low, people need to finally learn to understand that.

Caulibflower
05-12-2011, 12:39 AM
Peter Warrick was an animal, AT Wide Receiver. He was also one of the greatest college football Wide Receivers of all-time.

How many times do conversion players need to fail before people get the point? Their success rate is low, people need to finally learn to understand that.

How many times does any position bust? There are plenty of players in the NFL right now who fill a variety of roles on their teams, many of them having experience at multiple positions and many of them have been high draft picks.

niel89
05-12-2011, 12:56 AM
Reggie Bush and Matt Jones aren't even comparable guys to Robinson. Bush was an amazing prospect coming out and is a RB. Matt Jones was just a physical freak and he was pushed up because of it. Robinson is a dynamic player but you take the 6'5" guy running the 4.3 at 237 lbs over the 6' guy.

He is closer to Hester who didn't have a real position coming in, and he still isn't that great of a receiver. They are both dynamic players but will come off as square pegs in a round hole. They are athletes playing at WR rather than a WR who is athletic. Yes Hester was a 2nd rounder but he is an mega-elite return man and Robinson just isn't.

You can try to make an argument of why Robinson could be a 2nd rounder, but I don't see him being all that successful. Everyone of the realistic comparisons in this thread are guys that didn't really turn out that well.

K Train
05-12-2011, 08:31 AM
i think he clearly knows hes gonna have to spend a lot of time as a WR when the going pro process begins. everyone wants to be the QB or RB but hes gonna have to drop that kind of ego and really focus on getting polished skills as a WR. i wonder how his hands are, you would think they would try him at WR just to help the kid out for his future. i guess thats not how college ball works though.

hester is the best comparison...but he was a CB that wasnt even looked at as a WR until people saw that he was amazing at returning kicks and should get looks on offense, hopefully denard will get a jump start on those kind of reps. some team will covet his speed, i think the 2nd round is the absoulte lowest

Big Bird
05-12-2011, 09:06 AM
hester is the best comparison...but he was a CB that wasnt even looked at as a WR until people saw that he was amazing at returning kicks and should get looks on offense, hopefully denard will get a jump start on those kind of reps. some team will covet his speed, i think the 2nd round is the absoulte lowest
Hester played a bit of Offense at Miami. NFL Draft Scout even had him ranked as a Wide Receiver. Everybody knew he could and had played the position, though it was limited, but people had looked at him as a potential Wide Receiver in the NFL.

JeffSamardzijaIRISH
05-12-2011, 06:49 PM
Is he just too small to play QB at the next level? From what I've seen, he has a pretty good arm. What's to say he won't develop into a Michael Vick-esque prospect as a senior?

PossibleCabbage
05-12-2011, 07:01 PM
Is he just too small to play QB at the next level? From what I've seen, he has a pretty good arm. What's to say he won't develop into a Michael Vick-esque prospect as a senior?

Considering how things have gone with Michael Vick (even putting aside the legal problems) Vick's inconsistent play and frequent injuries, I'm not sure that if a 21 year old Michael Vick were in the draft he would go nearly as high as he actually did, though he's probably still a first round pick.

The "Vick has missed at least one game due to injury in 7 of his 8 NFL seasons" thing is going to hurt Robinson as a QB in the eyes of NFL evaluators, considering that once Robinson got to the Conference Part of Michigan's schedule he was already bowing out early of a lot of games because he was getting beat all to hell.

Iamcanadian
05-12-2011, 09:40 PM
Depends on his post season and whether or not he can demonstrate solid hands and some route running ability, otherwise, he won't go near round 1 or 2. Could be drafted as a RB if his receiving skills aren't up to par.

SRK85
05-13-2011, 01:29 AM
Round 3 at the earliest. All he has for him is speed. Pat White was drafted way too early and never did a thing. I say Denard Robinson's career will end up like Troy Smith's. A career backup who never really transitions from college to the NFL.

WCH
05-13-2011, 02:08 AM
The thing that I find interesting about Robinson is that, last season when he was playing in a spread option, he was the most dynamic open-field runner I think I've ever seen at the QB position. This coming season, he's going to be playing in a pro-style offense. If he can look half as good (literally, half as good) in a pro-style system and he does well in pre-draft workouts and interviews, then I think that he's a late first or early second round pick. His frame suggests WR, and he could certainly be a big YAC guy at the position -- if he can catch. He can clearly see the passing lanes and he's got the work-ethic to learn to run routes.

The exciting thing about Robinson is that we get to see him operate in a pro-style offense, with Devin Gardner (a more natural fit for the system -- and possibly a draft prospect to watch a few years from now) pushing him for playing time.

I look forward to seeing what he does this coming season (and possibly the next season?), and how he performs in a different system (possibly as a "utility player" who takes 30 snaps per game at various positions).

We don't often have the benefit of watching spread-option running QB's try to adjust to a pro-style system while they're still in college. Within nine months, we should have a pretty solid idea of how good of a pro prospect Denard Robinson really is.

steelcrew43
05-13-2011, 04:21 AM
Are you guys crazy? He's a Devin Hester/Percy Harvin/Chris Johnson type. Those guys are both stocky, physical runners. Denard is almost graceful when he runs. It's all speed and elusiveness with him. Michael Robinson is playing fullback now, and Cribbs is close to 220 himself. Robinson is 30lbs lighter and runs 0.3 seconds faster in the 40. I don't see those comparisons at all, as far as playing style goes. I can see him doing some of the things Josh Cribbs, but you might as well be saying "a faster Josh Cribbs who is way skinnier and doesn't run like Josh Cribbs."

thank you, comparing MR with denard. who ever posted that must have never seen either of them play/run.

steelcrew43
05-13-2011, 04:33 AM
Um, excuse me?

6-0 is a below average height, and at 193 lbs., he is skinny (if he is even either of those listings).

Let's take a look at some of Scott's scouting reports on some guys of similar size.

Randall Cobb-Kentucky
5-10 1/4
191 lbs.
"Merely average height and bulk with small frame."

Edmond Gates-Abilene Christian (basically the exact listed size as Denard)
5-11 3/4
193 lbs.
"Has average size at just 60, 189 pounds. Narrow and lean frame."

Vincent Brown-San Diego State
5-11 1/4
187 lbs.
"Thin, wiry frame and just doesn't have ideal bulk."

Do I need to continue, or do you get the point?

greg jennings 5'11 198
mike wallace 6'0 198
reggie wayne 6'0 196
hines ward 6'0 190
santonio holmes 5'10 187
steve smith 5'9 189

Need i continue?

stephenson86
05-13-2011, 06:09 AM
Career as a return specialist could be a possibility, he does have fantastic vision. He will find something at the next level but how well he does and is a totally different matter.

K Train
05-13-2011, 08:28 AM
greg jennings 5'11 198
mike wallace 6'0 198
reggie wayne 6'0 196
hines ward 6'0 190
santonio holmes 5'10 187
steve smith 5'9 189

Need i continue?

exactly...its nice to have a fitz, calvin, andre, bowe, moss, or plax....but thats not the norm. big WRs usually suck ass, i just hate it when people are like omg we need to get a big WR cause its not always that easy. Reggie Williams, Ashley lelie, dwayne jarrett, pre favre sidney rice, james hardy, ernest wilford, limas sweed, malcolm kelly...those guys just to name a few are pretty terrible. sidney rice was the only one to really improve but these big, lanky wrs that run lazy routes and lack any quickness making them slow in and out of their cuts were men among boys in college and just flop in the pros. thats why all the very best "big wrs" seem to be high first round picks, cause they are viewed as these elite athletes that can translate to the pros. having "above average size" isnt always good. dennards biggest obstacle is going to be the consistancy of his hands

deepthoughtlife
05-14-2011, 12:48 AM
I can't say I've scouted Denard Robinson as a pro prospect, but he is actually an excellent College QB, that got a lot more done with his arm than you would think. 62.5% completions. 8.8 YPA. 14.12 YPC. Some of his throws displayed good arm strength too.

Is the reason people don't see him as a QB mostly his size, or am I overlooking something?

PossibleCabbage
05-14-2011, 02:17 AM
I can't say I've scouted Denard Robinson as a pro prospect, but he is actually an excellent College QB, that got a lot more done with his arm than you would think. 62.5% completions. 8.8 YPA. 14.12 YPC. Some of his throws displayed good arm strength too.

Is the reason people don't see him as a QB mostly his size, or am I overlooking something?

Compare Denard Robinson's second year at Michigan with Pat White's second year at West Virginia. White had a 65.9% completion pecentage and averaged 9.2 YPA versus Robinson's 62.5% completion percentage and 8.8 YPA, and White played better in his Jr. and Sr. years. White and Robinson played in literally the same offense, and they're more or less the same size.

So anybody who's convinced that Denard Robinson makes a great pro prospect, ought to explain why they didn't think that Pat White was a great pro prospect (or, if they did, why did things go so terribly for White in the NFL).

You can't scout QBs by looking at stats. Anybody who watched either of those guys play knows that what they did in college wasn't something that an NFL team could be successful doing. We dock guys for coming out of gimmicky offenses in our evaluations, and we worry about spread guys. Of all the spread offenses in college football, Rich Rod's was probably the second least translatable to the NFL behind Chip Kelly's as both seriously border on gimmick/system offenses. That's not to knock those guys, the job of a college coach is to win football games using his talent however he best can, while the job of a college football player is to execute the plays that the coach calls in the manner that they're taught; nobody's responsible for making sure guys get drafted high here.

If Denard Robinson lines up under center, in a pro style offense which doesn't feature a zone read, and doesn't have "just run with the ball" as a checkdown option, then I can meaningfully evaluate his statistics as a passer. As it stands now, just watching Michigan games, I want no part of him as a quarterback in the NFL. As a receiver/returner/whatever, I have no idea. I really don't know how to scout guys for playing completely different positions than I've seen them play.

GoRavens
05-14-2011, 06:25 AM
Slot receiver in the NFL. possible return man. Definitely not an NFL QB by any means

BamaFalcon59
05-14-2011, 06:39 AM
Robinson has no right to be compared to Vick. Vick had about 20 pounds on Robinson coming out, along with one of the strongest arms in the world. Not to mention his offense was more pro-style than that of Robinson's. Vick also won like 90%+ of his college starts.

Robinson is a rich man's Armani Edwards and will go in the middle of round two.

GoRavens
05-14-2011, 12:02 PM
round two.

seriously?
I was thinking more of a 4th round grade.
With QBs converting to receivers it's always a massive gamble.
Not only are they not comfortable with the position, but they need to learn about the art of route running. Not to mention his hands, It's going to take some getting used to catching the football all the time.
That, and beating the jam at the line, which is something I doubt Robinson will be able to do. He's super frail and would die if he got smacked over the middle by a safety.. His best bet is a punt returner. His speed/vision/elusivness is out of this world.

steelcrew43
05-15-2011, 04:25 PM
rounds 1 or 2. athleticism like his doesnt come around often

K Train
05-16-2011, 08:42 AM
So anybody who's convinced that Denard Robinson makes a great pro prospect, ought to explain why they didn't think that Pat White was a great pro prospect (or, if they did, why did things go so terribly for White in the NFL).
.

simple...white refused to change positions, he was a QB and wouldnt take no for an answer. also robinson is so much more explosive than white, white was a good ball carrying QB but not even close to the breakaway speed of robinson

PossibleCabbage
05-16-2011, 01:07 PM
simple...white refused to change positions, he was a QB and wouldnt take no for an answer. also robinson is so much more explosive than white, white was a good ball carrying QB but not even close to the breakaway speed of robinson

I'm just comparing the two prospects as quarterbacks. If Pat White can't make it as a quarterback in the NFL, Denard Robinson shouldn't even be considered as a QB in the NFL. Robinson's better running skills do in no way make up for White's better arm when we're talking about NFL quarterbacks.

If you want to draft Robinson as a WR, then that's fine. But position switches are always risky so that's going to hurt his stock. We have nothing really to evaluate him on core skills at non-QB positions.

deepthoughtlife
05-17-2011, 04:33 PM
Compare Denard Robinson's second year at Michigan with Pat White's second year at West Virginia. White had a 65.9% completion pecentage and averaged 9.2 YPA versus Robinson's 62.5% completion percentage and 8.8 YPA, and White played better in his Jr. and Sr. years. White and Robinson played in literally the same offense, and they're more or less the same size.

So anybody who's convinced that Denard Robinson makes a great pro prospect, ought to explain why they didn't think that Pat White was a great pro prospect (or, if they did, why did things go so terribly for White in the NFL).

You can't scout QBs by looking at stats. Anybody who watched either of those guys play knows that what they did in college wasn't something that an NFL team could be successful doing. We dock guys for coming out of gimmicky offenses in our evaluations, and we worry about spread guys. Of all the spread offenses in college football, Rich Rod's was probably the second least translatable to the NFL behind Chip Kelly's as both seriously border on gimmick/system offenses. That's not to knock those guys, the job of a college coach is to win football games using his talent however he best can, while the job of a college football player is to execute the plays that the coach calls in the manner that they're taught; nobody's responsible for making sure guys get drafted high here.

If Denard Robinson lines up under center, in a pro style offense which doesn't feature a zone read, and doesn't have "just run with the ball" as a checkdown option, then I can meaningfully evaluate his statistics as a passer. As it stands now, just watching Michigan games, I want no part of him as a quarterback in the NFL. As a receiver/returner/whatever, I have no idea. I really don't know how to scout guys for playing completely different positions than I've seen them play.

I didn't just go off of Robinsons's stats when I said he was a good college QB. Instead, I watched him play. He was, in fact, excellent -much better than Cam Newton as a QB, and a better runner to boot. Pat White was always a tertiary option as a thrower, Robinson throwing was always a primary option.

You have to include stats in any evaluation. At the very least, you need to be able to explain them. Pat White was the guy the defense didn't focus on, so his gaining stats was easier. Also, we don't actually know why White didn't work in the NFL. As far as can be told, he gave up the first time he met adversity, and tried his hand at baseball -that has no predictive value on any other quarterback. Does Jamarcus Russel busting mean we shouldn't draft tall QBs with strong Arms and high completion percentage, and improved significantly each year as a starter?

Robinson was the entire offense almost. Pat white was a guy who caught the snap. White was surprisingly efficient, that doesn't mean we should discount Robinson. Rich Rod sucked at Michigan, and Robinson almost rescued his sorry butt; there was nothing Robinson could do about the defense.

Robinson is playing in a more professional offense this season. Shouldn't all this 'he can't play QB' stuff be put off until we see how well he does it (all indications so far are that it isn't set in stone)? If you got the impression watching the games that anyone could have done what he was asked to to do better, your eyes don't work so well.

What actual weakness does Denard Robinson have in his game? I'm sure he has some, but you seem to have done even less scouting than I have, having listed none to support your denigratory position. As far as I can tell, you are just assuming being in an unusual offense means a player isn't a good prospect. (See Bradford, Sam; Newton, Cam; Kaepernick, Colin; etc). At least the size thing makes some sense, unlike this prejudice. Maybe he isn't a good prospect, but you don't seem to know a reason why.

Oaktown1981
05-19-2011, 11:59 AM
2nd round pick IMO I def should see Oakland drafting him they love speed.

He could be a very good role player he could play WR/KR/PR/QB in Wild Cat

If he runs a low 4.3 he could go a lot sooner

shylo3716
10-29-2011, 02:53 PM
Having a decent year at QB, but will he become a draft prospect come January or will he comeback for his Sr. year?

Either way anyone looks at Robinson's prospects he cannot raise his draft stock.