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View Full Version : Vontaze Burfict - Best MLB Prospect Since Ray Lewis?


JBCX
05-12-2011, 05:55 PM
Is this guy the best MLB prospect in the nation this year? He has to be, right? There hasn't been a guy with this kind of athletic ability at the MLB position, and the nasty demeanor, since, well, probably Ray Lewis in 1996.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KvcsffTQojI

CashmoneyDrew
05-12-2011, 05:59 PM
Is this guy the best MLB prospect in the nation this year? He has to be, right? There hasn't been a guy with this kind of athletic ability at the MLB position, and the nasty demeanor, since, well, probably Ray Lewis in 1996.

KvcsffTQojI

Patrick Willis?

fenikz
05-12-2011, 06:01 PM
Burfict is so much better than Willis

Complex
05-12-2011, 06:07 PM
Most talented linebacker since Lavar Arrington.

Bob Sanders Dreadlock
05-12-2011, 06:07 PM
Looking at pictures of him he looks out of shape for a linebacker which is incredibly scary.

Ozzy
05-12-2011, 06:19 PM
I would not say Burfict is better than Patrick Willis, what Willis did with one arm basically that final year at Ole Miss was insane. Much less his 40 time at the combine. Burfict is right up there with Willis but Willis had more consistent play making ability and talking ability. Burfict is good and gets big hits but so did Rey Maualuga, and he dropped because of his lack in instincts and consistently finding and getting to the football.

He is a great prospect though, but Ray Lewis, not solid on that comparison just yet. James Laurinaitis was a hell of an inside linebacker prospect just a few years ago, and hard to beat his production he had as a sophomore. Burfict sure has the athletic power though and explosiveness.

ellsy82
05-12-2011, 06:27 PM
Looking at pictures of him he looks out of shape for a linebacker which is incredibly scary.

If you see him play, you'll think quite differently. He's a freaking animal. I'd say Ray Lewis is a good comparison, due to the fact that I can't think of any others to compare him to. Maybe an injury-free Greg Lloyd? He has that kind of athleticism.

He's batshit crazy on a football field. In fact, ASU head coach Erickson (who incidentally compared him to Ray Lewis) had to hide his helmet from him on several occasions.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/680994-2012-nfl-mock-draft-can-anyone-test-andrew-luck-for-top-spot/entry/73061-2012-nfl-mock-draft-cleveland-selects-vontaze-burfict-arizona-state-at-no-6

TitanHope
05-12-2011, 06:32 PM
Gotta love how he runs through his tackles like that. Fun to watch.

I think he has more power than Willis (not much more, as Willis can lay the wood) and better pass-rushing ability. I don't think he's quite as athletic as Willis though - Willis is one of the only players I've seen catch Chris Johnson from behind.

I'm no expert on either player, so correct me if I'm wrong. Either way, I think both are special players.

Caulibflower
05-12-2011, 06:35 PM
Most talented linebacker since Lavar Arrington.

You're pic is reaaaaally, really distracted to me when I'm trying to talk about the physical attributes of men. I kind of lose interest, to be honest.

CashmoneyDrew
05-12-2011, 06:37 PM
Burfict is so much better than Willis

Athletic ability wise?

Woody56
05-12-2011, 06:42 PM
Ray Lewis may be the best MLB of all time, but he was far from a great prospect. He was the 5th LB taken in the 1st round. The best LB prospect of recent memory would be Lavar Arrington.

OSUGiants17
05-12-2011, 06:42 PM
Kid is a freak and still hasn't maxed out bulk wise. He can bulk up his upper body quite a bit and when he does he will be the scariest LB in the league besides Ray Lewis.

FUNBUNCHER
05-12-2011, 06:56 PM
Kid is a nice player, but I doubt he tests anywhere in the vicinity of Patrick Willis and Lavar Arringyon predraft.


Ray Lewis wasn't considered an all-world pro prospect coming out of the U., otherwise he would have been a top 10 selection, instead of being selected towards the end of the first round in '96.

I've heard some criticisms of Burfict, such as his effort isn't always consistent from play to play. When he's focused, he's a beast, but if he isn't, he is not an impact defender.

Too much hype for this guy IMO. Great MLB prospect, but there have been other similarly touted Mikes ( who was a greater MIKE prospect than AJ Hawk!!??), who never lived up to their billing in the pros.

Being 'crazy' is cool for a middle linebacker, but what's cooler is to back it up with consistent playmaking ability, like say, BC's Luke Kuechly.

I know this photo of Burfict was taken before he entered college, but that's a sloppy body IMO for an elite MIKE prospect!!lol

http://media.scout.com/Media/Image/56/566571.jpg

fenikz
05-12-2011, 06:58 PM
I've heard some criticisms of Burfict, such as his effort isn't always consistent from play to play. When he's focused, he's a beast, but if he isn't, he is not an impact defender.

entirely the opposite he has a nonstop motor and he is in on every single play

FUNBUNCHER
05-12-2011, 07:09 PM
entirely the opposite he has a nonstop motor and he is in on every single play


Even his long highlight tapes on youtube don't show Burfict in 'on every single play'.

Like his aggression, but he too often goes for the big hit instead of taking the ballcarrier to the ground. Leading with your shoulderpad and not wrapping up in the NFL on any skill player bigger than 5'11, 200# in many cases will result in a whiffed tackle.

GxQEkLHo0F4

JaxJag_1
05-12-2011, 07:38 PM
The top of next year's LB crop has elite potential...

Burfict, Manti Te'o, Dont'a Hightower, and Luke Kuechly are all Juniors that could declare.

Then factor in Seniors like Courtney Upshaw, Tank Carder, and Travis Lewis.

Love that crop.

phlysac
05-12-2011, 08:02 PM
The top of next year's LB crop has elite potential...

Burfict, Manti Te'o, Dont'a Hightower, and Luke Kuechly are all Juniors that could declare.

Then factor in Seniors like Courtney Upshaw, Tank Carder, and Travis Lewis.

Love that crop.

Agree. I would have loved to add Dan Mason's name to that list. Not sure if he'll ever play again let alone be the same. I'm still crying a little bit inside...

-cOD8FB_UX8

Iamcanadian
05-12-2011, 09:09 PM
As it stands right now, the MLB for Notre Dame, Manti Te'o, is head and shoulders above Burfict and a likely top 5 pick.
Burfict is a 1st round talent but he will need a heck of a season and post season to pass the other guy, so I would have to conclude that right now, he doesn't compare to Ray Lewis.
Should be an outstanding LB crop depending on who declares.

WCH
05-12-2011, 09:15 PM
I don't like the "Ray Lewis wasn't an elite prospect" argument for one reason: while he wasn't a top-10 pick, Ron Wolf later said that he was the highest rated player on the Packers draft board that year.

We shouldn't judge the "eliteness" of past prospects based on the fact that crappy teams passed on them in the draft. These teams are picking in the top-15 for a reason.

the_dark_knight
05-12-2011, 09:35 PM
Been my #1 target from his freshman year.

K Train
05-12-2011, 09:49 PM
the dude is nuts....like a madman on the field.

that being said i liked willis better

gpngc
05-12-2011, 10:08 PM
I'll never forgot Willis winning a game by stuffing a 4th-and-1 run up the gut for a three-yard loss with that giant cast on his hand.

Willis was pretty much a PERFECT Mike prospect.

Burfict is on the same level in terms of instincts, but that's about where the comparison ends.

Halsey
05-13-2011, 12:17 AM
Rey Maualuga was talked up as the next great MLB at one time. Patrick Willis wasn't all that highly regarded by fans and media prior to becoming an NFL star. Many people didn't know much about him.

CrankthatCrabtree
05-13-2011, 12:21 AM
Willis went 11th overall (and had crazy hype during the predraft process). Won the SEC defensive player of the year. Was a two time All American, two time First- SEC team, and won the Butkus and Lambert awards.

I don't know what the **** you are talking about.

Halsey
05-13-2011, 12:32 AM
You don't know what I'm talking about because you couldn't maintain your attention span through the 2nd sentence. I said "Patrick Willis wasn't all that highly regarded by fans and media prior to becoming an NFL star". Fans and media didn't Draft him. Kind of a basic NFL Draft concept lol...

fenikz
05-13-2011, 12:35 AM
Burfict named preseason 1st team all american by The Sporting News

CrankthatCrabtree
05-13-2011, 12:51 AM
Fans and the media know every player who has been a two time All-American.

ellsy82
05-13-2011, 01:03 AM
Kid is a nice player, but I doubt he tests anywhere in the vicinity of Patrick Willis and Lavar Arringyon predraft.


Ray Lewis wasn't considered an all-world pro prospect coming out of the U., otherwise he would have been a top 10 selection, instead of being selected towards the end of the first round in '96.

I've heard some criticisms of Burfict, such as his effort isn't always consistent from play to play. When he's focused, he's a beast, but if he isn't, he is not an impact defender.

Too much hype for this guy IMO. Great MLB prospect, but there have been other similarly touted Mikes ( who was a greater MIKE prospect than AJ Hawk!!??), who never lived up to their billing in the pros.

Being 'crazy' is cool for a middle linebacker, but what's cooler is to back it up with consistent playmaking ability, like say, BC's Luke Kuechly.

I know this photo of Burfict was taken before he entered college, but that's a sloppy body IMO for an elite MIKE prospect!!lol

http://media.scout.com/Media/Image/56/566571.jpg

Sloppy? Ray Lewis has had a gut hanging over his spandex for the last 5 years...and this kid's body looks sloppy? I really don't get it, man. If there was ever a Ray Ray comparison, this guy is it. To a "T". I don't see inconsistancies in his play as much as you do. Perhaps he gives up on a play if he's out of the area of the play. I've seen that in games. But I've never seen him back off from a play that was coming at him.

K Train
05-13-2011, 08:20 AM
idk about sloppy, its crazy to think how good he could be if he were a little more jacked up though.

willis had crazy hype behind him and was being looked at to play in any scheme at pretty much any LB slot

phlysac
05-13-2011, 10:20 AM
Sloppy? Ray Lewis has had a gut hanging over his spandex for the last 5 years...

I wish my gut was "hanging over" like Ray's...

http://img811.imageshack.us/img811/4175/raylewis.jpg

FUNBUNCHER
05-13-2011, 10:43 AM
Sloppy? Ray Lewis has had a gut hanging over his spandex for the last 5 years...and this kid's body looks sloppy? I really don't get it, man. If there was ever a Ray Ray comparison, this guy is it. To a "T". I don't see inconsistancies in his play as much as you do. Perhaps he gives up on a play if he's out of the area of the play. I've seen that in games. But I've never seen him back off from a play that was coming at him.

Hey, I was responding to the dude hyping Burfict saying he was IN ON EVERY PLAY. That's ridiculous.

The problem I have with Burfict's physique is he looks like he doesn't know where the weightroom is. Granted, physique and football really have very little in common, to a point. Marshall Faulk was always considered one of the most unimpressive looking athletes with his shirt off, yet he's 10x the football player 'male model' Reggie Bush ever will be.

As for Ray Lewis, he doesn't lift the way he used to early in his career, but when he was a 20something NFL 'backer, he was creased up from neck to ankles.

It's still better to play strong than look strong.
But I still can't see a guy who looks like Burfict testing like Arrington/Patrick Willis predraft.

Burfict is a great prospect no doubt, but his hype right now is a little outrageous.

The one comparison I really don't like is people seem to underestimate one of the qualities that makes Ray Lewis 'special'; he studies film like a quarterback.

Lewis may be one of the smartest/studious LBs to ever play the game, and when you add his physical gifts and intangibles, you have the makings of a first ballot HOFer.

Burfict has some Ray Lewis qualities, clearly, but being hyper-aggressive and a high impact, collision type player really barely scratches the surface IMO.

It's the same problem I had when people were comparing Lavar Arrington out of Penn State to LT because of his improvisational style. The difference was that LT almost always guessed right when he 'went off script'.

As any Redskins fan knows, and probably most NFCE teams, Arrington took himself out of more plays than any opposing offense because he had too much faith in his questionable instincts instead of executing his assignments.

This is a big year for Burfict IMO, and I'll be watching as many Arizona State games as I can to see if this guy can dominate consecutive games ALL BY HIMSELF on defense.

JoeJoeBrown
05-13-2011, 10:51 AM
I wish my gut was "hanging over" like Ray's...

http://img811.imageshack.us/img811/4175/raylewis.jpg

I'm sure that he's that ripped outside of photoshoots.

RayRayStabberson has had a paunch for a while. Nothing big, but he's not ripped like that picture. If that hasn't been photoshopped, then he cut some serious fat a few weeks before the shoot.

Nebula
05-13-2011, 12:06 PM
Was Ray Lewis even considered an elite and all-time rare LB prospect out of the draft? I don't think so. He had some slight concerns over him as a raw athlete. He wasn't the biggest, fastest, or strongest guy. Obviously they were all wrong as his tremendous and rare instincts/downhill explosiveness put an end to any criticism real soon

phlysac
05-13-2011, 12:35 PM
RayRayStabberson has had a paunch for a while.

The fact that you call him that illustrates the strong possibility that you're "gonna hate" regardless.

Borat
05-13-2011, 01:57 PM
Burfict is so much better than Willis

Haha. This is coming from the guy that thinks Ahmed Brooks is better than Patrick Willis. Jealous much. LOL.

Roddoliver
05-13-2011, 02:20 PM
This thread ends with the fact that Ray Lewis was not considered a great MLB prospect. I believe he was the 4th LB taken in the 1996 Draft...

fenikz
05-13-2011, 03:58 PM
Haha. This is coming from the guy that thinks Ahmed Brooks is better than Patrick Willis. Jealous much. LOL.

the year i said that it was true, Brooks raped AZ while Willis did nothing

i love how you are all evaluating 17 year old Burfict's body

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/blog/dr_saturday/post/Von-Miller-then-and-now-How-recruits-grow-and?urn=ncaaf-wp1188

check that out

phlysac
05-13-2011, 04:05 PM
the year i said that it was true, Brooks raped AZ while Willis did nothing

I know this is hijacking a bit but you're speaking of the 2009 season where Ahmad Brooks had 4 tackles, 3 Sacks and 2 Forced Fumbles vs. ARI.

But Willis did more than "nothing"...

23 tackles, 1 Sack, 1 Forced Fumble, and 1 Interception.

Saints-Tigers
05-13-2011, 04:40 PM
If Burfict isn't studying film, then he's got ESP, because he's amazing at jumping snaps and being in the backfield before guys can stand up.

Kuechly is much more like a James Laurinaitis than he is like Burfict, I don't see him as a top of the 1st round type of prospect.

FUNBUNCHER
05-13-2011, 04:44 PM
the year i said that it was true, Brooks raped AZ while Willis did nothing

i love how you are all evaluating 17 year old Burfict's body

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/blog/dr_saturday/post/Von-Miller-then-and-now-How-recruits-grow-and?urn=ncaaf-wp1188

check that out

Burfict was still chubby as a prep. Just saying.

That yahoo article is sketchy IMO. This 'guy' assumes Von Miller didn't work out AT ALL his senior year at Texas A&M. And what is 'draft weight'?? There are prospect weights at the NFL combine and their weights at their prodays.

Since when was Nick Fairley 314# predraft?

Tyron Smith was 307# at the combine, not 285#.

Von Miller was 246# at the combine, not 240.

Interesting chart, but the IMO some of these numbers aren't accurate.

Saints-Tigers
05-13-2011, 04:47 PM
if speed/strength is similar, I'll take a chubby guy over a muscley guy any day.

FUNBUNCHER
05-13-2011, 04:52 PM
if speed/strength is similar, I'll take a chubby guy over a muscley guy any day.

.....Absolutely.

Jast casting a little 'shade' on the guy and trying to slow down the hype train!!lol

ToldLikeItIs
05-13-2011, 06:07 PM
He has what I call "LeBron" legs.

It's hard to describe, but basically he has this really powerful motion when he runs. His legs and upper body seem to work in perfect harmony, and it doesn't hurt that his legs are powerful as all hell.

rawdawg
05-13-2011, 06:14 PM
Does Burflict's tendency to become an absolute loose cannon affect his draft stock? He's a 15-yard penalty waiting to happen every single play.

TACKLE
05-13-2011, 08:34 PM
You don't know what I'm talking about because you couldn't maintain your attention span through the 2nd sentence. I said "Patrick Willis wasn't all that highly regarded by fans and media prior to becoming an NFL star". Fans and media didn't Draft him. Kind of a basic NFL Draft concept lol...

It's not like all those accolades and awards he won were voted on by members of the media.....

SenorGato
05-14-2011, 12:28 AM
As it stands right now, the MLB for Notre Dame, Manti Te'o, is head and shoulders above Burfict and a likely top 5 pick.
Burfict is a 1st round talent but he will need a heck of a season and post season to pass the other guy, so I would have to conclude that right now, he doesn't compare to Ray Lewis.
Should be an outstanding LB crop depending on who declares.

I'd say that's very unlikely.

I'm a big fan of Burfict and I think he's the best ILB prospect since Willis. I like him more than both Teo and Kuechly, though I guess it'll be close for a while. He needs to calm down so he doesn't get flagged out of the league, but otherwise everything else is top of the line. Hopefully he can run a bad 40 time so he falls to the Jets at 32.

TACKLE
05-14-2011, 04:35 AM
i love how you are all evaluating 17 year old Burfict's body

what are you talking about? dissecting a shirtless pic of a 17 year old is invaluable in properly evaluating a prospect.

GoRavens
05-14-2011, 06:18 AM
Ray Lewis having a gut deserves a big fat stone face for whoever said that nonsense.. Burfict isn't nearly the prospect Ray was, but he's close.
You forgot about
1) Patrick Willis.
He's definitely the best LB since Ray Lewis.
After him,
2) LaVar Arrington would've been a hall of famer if not for injuries.
3) EJ Henderson is an absolute monster at stuffing the run
4) Jonathan Vilma also had a slight edge on Burfict
I like Burfict as well as pretty much everybody else, but I think he struggles with discipline, consistency, coverage and stamina.. Other than that, the kid is clearly an absolute animal

MaybeDavis
05-14-2011, 07:07 AM
Lets wait were burfict were drafted when everything is done ('12 saison, combine, interviews). Can't see why he should be a better prospect than Willis. A MLB with the 11th ovr pick, like PW, have to be a huge prospect. And I dont think burfict will go much higher than this. He's a Top 10-15 Prospect in my opinion, today.

cajuncorey
05-14-2011, 08:37 PM
Is this guy the best MLB prospect in the nation this year? He has to be, right? There hasn't been a guy with this kind of athletic ability at the MLB position, and the nasty demeanor, since, well, probably Ray Lewis in 1996.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KvcsffTQojI

thats some seriously gloss my friend

TACKLE
05-15-2011, 01:48 AM
fBHVbNN-GPE

there's some clips of other guys but most its Taze. also the shot at 1:10 is so ******* cool.

roscoesdad27
05-15-2011, 05:37 PM
Best pure Ted/Thumper 3-4 ilb prospect ever?

etk
05-15-2011, 05:56 PM
As it stands right now, the MLB for Notre Dame, Manti Te'o, is head and shoulders above Burfict and a likely top 5 pick.
Burfict is a 1st round talent but he will need a heck of a season and post season to pass the other guy, so I would have to conclude that right now, he doesn't compare to Ray Lewis.
Should be an outstanding LB crop depending on who declares.

For once I agree with you. Te'o is the most talented and athletic LB in this draft for his size. Burfict has that "head bussa" mentality that gets you all the early hype on this site but Te'o is a better prospect.

Big Bird
05-15-2011, 06:24 PM
The more I think about it, the more I dislike Burfict. I was also quite low on Rey Rey, saying he was only a late 1st going into his Senior season and that was based solely on potential. Rey played out of control. Aggression is great and all, but you need to play under control, specifically being a Linebacker. Being a Linebacker is all about getting yourself in the right position to bring down the ball carrier.

Burfict has potential, and like Rey, you see him flash it with big hits and some solid-good athletic ability. But is he Patrick Willis? No, don't even kid yourself with that. Willis was as sound as they come. That's why he went so high for an Inside Linebacker. Burfict misses on way too many tackles and gets him out of position too often for me to touch him in the Top 15 right now.

Big Bird
05-15-2011, 06:27 PM
For once I agree with you. Te'o is the most talented and athletic LB in this draft for his size. Burfict has that "head bussa" mentality that gets you all the early hype on this site but Te'o is a better prospect.
I agree with this as well. Te'O reminds me a lot of Jerod Mayo.

roscoesdad27
05-15-2011, 06:30 PM
For once I agree with you. Te'o is the most talented and athletic LB in this draft for his size. Burfict has that "head bussa" mentality that gets you all the early hype on this site but Te'o is a better prospect.

LOVE Te'o as well, better 4-3 mlb prospect and also a slightly better 3-4 mike. Burfict is also a tremendous 3-4 mike prospect but he's a completely epic Ted 3-4 ilb and has that ray lewis esq contagious intensity.....I think both will go top 10.

GaMeTiMe
05-15-2011, 09:42 PM
The more I think about it, the more I dislike Burfict. I was also quite low on Rey Rey, saying he was only a late 1st going into his Senior season and that was based solely on potential. Rey played out of control. Aggression is great and all, but you need to play under control, specifically being a Linebacker. Being a Linebacker is all about getting yourself in the right position to bring down the ball carrier.

Burfict has potential, and like Rey, you see him flash it with big hits and some solid-good athletic ability. But is he Patrick Willis? No, don't even kid yourself with that. Willis was as sound as they come. That's why he went so high for an Inside Linebacker. Burfict misses on way too many tackles and gets him out of position too often for me to touch him in the Top 15 right now.

He's getting way too much hype here right now. His out of control style is actually his biggest flaw as a pro prospect and if he plays this way in the NFL he's going to get pancaked or blown up by the RB in pass-pro on every play. He'll never be able to get himself into position to make a tackle, just make a Madden-esque explosion at the line and hope to break through and nail the QB right away. We all get excited about that, but it doesn't make a "Patrick Willis prospect" at the ILB position. Please..

No one should even be surprised if he ends up being nothing but a gunner at the next level.

JFINK11
05-15-2011, 10:33 PM
The plain and simple answer is no. Athletic Freak? Yes. Aggressive and intimidating to his opponent in college? im sure he is.

but watch even this highlight play closely....he does not play with great leverage at all. great power and strength relative to college athletes allows him to simply overpower them at this stage of his career but these same blocks he is blowing up won't be nearly as prevalent in the nfl. He is a hard hitter but inconsistent with his tackling technique. His effort in pass coverage is down right minimal versus the blitz. In my mind this guy would best be served by being drafted by a 34 team and put as a tenacious rusher. I dont think he will be a playmaking mike in the nfl like he is in college. He is an athlete that has some potential and aggression. More like a 2nd round pick at this stage of the process in my mind.

Big Bird
05-15-2011, 10:53 PM
He's getting way too much hype here right now. His out of control style is actually his biggest flaw as a pro prospect and if he plays this way in the NFL he's going to get pancaked or blown up by the RB in pass-pro on every play. He'll never be able to get himself into position to make a tackle, just make a Madden-esque explosion at the line and hope to break through and nail the QB right away. We all get excited about that, but it doesn't make a "Patrick Willis prospect" at the ILB position. Please..

No one should even be surprised if he ends up being nothing but a gunner at the next level.
That is what I was saying.

It's Rey Rey all over again. Burfict can either get himself under control and learn how to actually play the position, or he can continue to play out of control, take poor angles, whiff on tackles, and get himself out of position, just the way Rey did, and see his stock plummet. Rey didn't even end up in my Top 100 after his terrible Senior season and average workouts, and he fell to the 2nd in the Draft when so many seemed sold he was a 1st Rounder.

Don't get sucked into big hits and flashes of athletic ability. None of it matters if you can't consistently get yourself in the proper position. Burfict doesn't belong as an elite prospect right now, and probably never will.

roscoesdad27
05-16-2011, 05:56 AM
Put him at 3-4 Ted where he can crash gaps and funnel the action to the mike while also being one of the league leaders in stuffs. The role is made for him, Rey Rey and Lavar Arlington woulda been much better as a Ted too IMHO. It's that Ray Lewis esq contagious intensity that sets him apart, that's special, that rubs off. He will put up 100+ tackles this season in a conference known for spreading the ball no less, his tackling ability and instincts aren't elite but its not bad either.

SolidGold
05-16-2011, 07:16 AM
I like the kid from BC better

K Train
05-16-2011, 09:56 AM
Burfict isn't nearly the prospect Ray was, but he's close.


not nearly the prospect, but close?

lol

Saints-Tigers
05-16-2011, 10:10 AM
Burfict is substantially faster and more fluid than Rey Rey.

TACKLE
05-16-2011, 10:25 AM
His game is almost like a combination of David Harris and James Harrison. Taze has still been getting by off raw athleticism and natural instincts. He's just such a gifted LB who still has a lot of room too grow and a lot of untapped potential which is a scary thought.

DoughBoy
05-16-2011, 10:50 AM
This topic is silly, Ray Lewis wasn't even considered the top 3 lber in his own draft class, let alone the best prospect of the last decade. Aaron Curry, Patrick Willis, Brian Urlacher, AJ Hawk, Brian Cushing, Chris Claiborne, Dan Morgan, Napolean Harris, Nick Barnett, Derrick Johnson, Lawrance Timmons, Jon Beason and Keith Rivers, would all of went ahead of Ray Lewis. Ray was just an extremely late bloomer.

thebow305
05-16-2011, 11:59 AM
I'll never forgot Willis winning a game by stuffing a 4th-and-1 run up the gut for a three-yard loss with that giant cast on his hand.

Willis was pretty much a PERFECT Mike prospect.

Burfict is on the same level in terms of instincts, but that's about where the comparison ends.

I'd have to agree with this. The insticts are there, but Willis also had them, combined with ELITE athleticism, hitting ability and overall passion for the game.

Willis is better, no question about it. But Burfict is nasty.


On a sidenote, that Mason injury is just sickening. I watched that game and I forget about that happening. What a terrible thing for him. Hopefully he recovers.

phlysac
05-16-2011, 12:23 PM
Put him at 3-4 Ted where he can crash gaps and funnel the action to the mike while also being one of the league leaders in stuffs. The role is made for him, Rey Rey and Lavar Arlington woulda been much better as a Ted too IMHO. It's that Ray Lewis esq contagious intensity that sets him apart, that's special, that rubs off. He will put up 100+ tackles this season in a conference known for spreading the ball no less, his tackling ability and instincts aren't elite but its not bad either.

The thing is, at least currently, alot of teams don't few the "TED" in it's traditional sense. A newer a seemingly more prevolent philosophy is that the MIKE and TED are in most ways interchangeable.

roscoesdad27
05-16-2011, 12:34 PM
The thing is, at least currently, alot of teams don't few the "TED" n it's traditional sense. A newer a seemingly more prevolent philosophy is that the MIKE and TED are in most ways interchangeable.

He can play either role but he's epic on an all time scale as a pure Ted IMHO. The 3-4 by design forces much more ilb vs. o.g. scenarios than a 4-3 because theres only 3 d.l. opposed to 4. Ideally you would like a guy like Burfict next to a P. Willis or J. Mayo but you could also have interchangable Ted/mikes like if he would land next to Dansby.

I have him going to k.c. at pick 7 in my first mock. Teo goes #8 to Cleveland.

dannyz
05-16-2011, 03:42 PM
Imagine if he went to the Lions being the BPA. Burfict behind Suh and Fairley! That would be like the 2000 Ravens all over Again.

JBCX
05-16-2011, 03:46 PM
Imagine if he went to the Lions being the BPA. Burfict behind Suh and Fairley! That would be like the 2000 Ravens all over Again.

The Lions won't be picking that high again next year, imho. I'm going to project Burfict as a top-15 pick and the Lions will be picking in the 20-32 range next year.

phlysac
05-16-2011, 05:11 PM
He can play either role but he's epic on an all time scale as a pure Ted IMHO. The 3-4 by design forces much more ilb vs. o.g. scenarios than a 4-3 because theres only 3 d.l. opposed to 4. Ideally you would like a guy like Burfict next to a P. Willis or J. Mayo but you could also have interchangable Ted/mikes like if he would land next to Dansby.


I completely get what you're saying and agree in theory. However, with the current emphasis in the passing game I tend to lean towards the newer philosophy of having "mirrored MIKEs" instead of a MIKE and a "traditional" TED.

Your example would be Karlos Dansby and Vontaze Burfict, while mine would be what the 49ers hope to have in Patrick Willis and NaVorro Bowman.

regoob2
05-16-2011, 05:41 PM
Lets all calm down on the YouTube sensation. Great player? Yes. Overrated? Yes. He's got a lot of talent but he needs to rein it in.

roscoesdad27
05-16-2011, 07:18 PM
I completely get what you're saying and agree in theory. However, with the current emphasis in the passing game I tend to lean towards the newer philosophy of having "mirrored MIKEs" instead of a MIKE and a "traditional" TED.

Your example would be Karlos Dansby and Vontaze Burfict, while mine would be what the 49ers hope to have in Patrick Willis and NaVorro Bowman.

By design against the run either bowman or willis will be asked to take on an o.g. a lot. Bowman will get mauled imho and Willis would be wasting his talents doing so. In return you get slightly better coverage but with taze you get better pressure so that aspect is a wash. All this isn't to say that burfict can't play 3-4 mike cause he certainly can, just reiterating how epic he could be as a ted.

AntoinCD
05-21-2011, 01:49 AM
By design against the run either bowman or willis will be asked to take on an o.g. a lot. Bowman will get mauled imho and Willis would be wasting his talents doing so. In return you get slightly better coverage but with taze you get better pressure so that aspect is a wash. All this isn't to say that burfict can't play 3-4 mike cause he certainly can, just reiterating how epic he could be as a ted.

Most NFL defenses these days play in sub packages almost 50% of the time and play all types of coverage schemes on third down. Burfict could be a complete beast if he was given a role similar to what Brandon Spikes has now with the Patriots. Put him beside a rangy playmaker and get him to blow up offensive linemen on running downs and where possible, especially early in his career, sub him out on passing downs. Burfict trying to play the deep middle in a cover 2 defense just will not work. He may never develop into the type of LB who can do everything but with development he could become at least serviceable in coverage. His intensity and temperment are a good thing in the run game but would definitely get exploited by NFL passing attacks.

A scary thought would be Burfict beside Lawrence Timmons for the Steelers. With their fire blitz scheme he could stay on the field and would be in the ideal scenario.

fenikz
05-21-2011, 02:32 AM
burfict has always looked good to me in pass coverage when did this become a weakness?

Saints-Tigers
05-21-2011, 02:44 AM
burfict has always looked good to me in pass coverage when did this become a weakness?

People saw that one highlight where he breaks his zone and mashed that QB.

AntoinCD
05-21-2011, 02:46 AM
burfict has always looked good to me in pass coverage when did this become a weakness?

I would say solid more than good IMO. I think at the minute he plays a little too undisciplined and can be manipulated with pumps and fakes

ellsy82
05-21-2011, 04:12 AM
I would say solid more than good IMO. I think at the minute he plays a little too undisciplined and can be manipulated with pumps and fakes

Well, isn't that saying something about most inside linebackers coming out of college? The dude still has two years to perfect his gift. If he's "solid" at coverage now...imagine what it'll be like one or two years from now. That's a solid, great LB prospect. And probably very worthy of a top 20 ranking. Possibly top 15.

AntoinCD
05-21-2011, 04:20 AM
Well, isn't that saying something about most inside linebackers coming out of college? The dude still has two years to perfect his gift. If he's "solid" at coverage now...imagine what it'll be like one or two years from now. That's a solid, great LB prospect. And probably very worthy of a top 20 ranking. Possibly top 15.

Sure I definitely believe he is a top 20 prospect and in fact in my first 2012 mock draft I had him going 9th overall. However he isn't this perfect ILB prospect which some are already making him out to be. My biggest criticism at the minute is he needs to play more under control, both in terms of his responsibilities and in terms of cheap shots/dirty hits. Some players have actually come out and stated publicly they were goading him into doing something stupid. Controlled aggression is what he needs to play with, not flat out insanity

TACKLE
05-21-2011, 09:00 AM
burfict has always looked good to me in pass coverage when did this become a weakness?

I would say solid more than good IMO. I think at the minute he plays a little too undisciplined and can be manipulated with pumps and fakes

more importantly when did "good" become better than "solid"?

bigbluedefense
05-21-2011, 01:12 PM
I think we need to temper expectations of this guy. He has great instincts, can lay wood, and is solid in coverage, but you guys are hyping him up too much.

He plays wild at times, doesn't wrap up much, freelances, and overpursues at times. I love the guy, I think he can be a great player, but with the way the league is moving, I don't see a top 5 pick in this guy.

Realistically, you're looking at a mid 1st round guy.

JBCX
07-19-2011, 01:53 PM
Bump. This is definitely going to be the guy to watch this year in CFB.

YAYareaRB
07-19-2011, 02:51 PM
burfict is my favorite linebacker since patrick willis. but in my opinion, hes not better than him. its a close comparison tho

AntoinCD
07-19-2011, 03:03 PM
burfict is my favorite linebacker since patrick willis. but in my opinion, hes not better than him. its a close comparison tho

Obviously until the season begins my opinion on Burfict wont change. From what I have seen he is an intense wrecking machine who at times plays way too out of control and will be exploited against. He is also a personal foul waiting to happen at any given time. I also think he is pretty limited to scheme at the next level. He has great tools to work with but I would worry about his mental approach.

more importantly when did "good" become better than "solid"?

It's exactly what it means. Solid is ok. Not bad but not necessarily good. Matt Cassell is a solid QB, Matt Ryan is a good QB. One is something that wont hurt your franchise, the other is something to build your franchise around.

SickwithIt1010
07-19-2011, 03:06 PM
Hes nowhere near the prospect that Willis was....but I do love me some Burfict.

YAYareaRB
07-19-2011, 03:08 PM
Obviously until the season begins my opinion on Burfict wont change. From what I have seen he is an intense wrecking machine who at times plays way too out of control and will be exploited against. He is also a personal foul waiting to happen at any given time. I also think he is pretty limited to scheme at the next level. He has great tools to work with but I would worry about his mental approach.

yeah but its refreshing to see an animal out there. you need at least one Vontaze on your team to punch people in the mouth.

from what i seen is that he is best lb prospect right now. i dont know about what schemes he'll succeed in but he feels like a 4-3 linebacker.

K Train
07-19-2011, 03:10 PM
hed be so pretty next to timmons.

not usre id say hes not even close to willis, its pretty close....athletically willis blows him away but as a football player hes not far behind. not to mention hes ******* insane, which is awesome

AntoinCD
07-19-2011, 03:11 PM
yeah but its refreshing to see an animal out there. you need at least one Vontaze on your team to punch people in the mouth.

from what i seen is that he is best lb prospect right now. i dont know about what schemes he'll succeed in but he feels like a 4-3 linebacker.

Yeah for sure every teams needs that presence. I actually think he's more of a 34 TED type LB. Let him play downhill and take on OGs in the running game and blow things up in the hole. I don't like the tought of him playing too much in space, particularly in a Tampa 2 system. I think Keuchley is the guy for that role.

AntoinCD
07-19-2011, 03:13 PM
hed be so pretty next to timmons.

not usre id say hes not even close to willis, its pretty close....athletically willis blows him away but as a football player hes not far behind. not to mention hes ******* insane, which is awesome

Perfect fit IMO for him. Timmons has great athleticism and range and Burfict would fit in well with Pittsburgh's attacking defense.

YAYareaRB
07-19-2011, 03:15 PM
Yeah for sure every teams needs that presence. I actually think he's more of a 34 TED type LB. Let him play downhill and take on OGs in the running game and blow things up in the hole. I don't like the tought of him playing too much in space, particularly in a Tampa 2 system. I think Keuchley is the guy for that role.

true.. i might be giving him more athletic credit than he has. i didn't realize how big he was either.

K Train
07-19-2011, 03:21 PM
yeah he would be best as a hammer in the middle of a 34, let him blow up guards and get to the ball carrier in traffic, thats his game.

fenikz
07-19-2011, 03:39 PM
He's suited for literally every position besides 3-4 OLB