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bigbuc
05-16-2011, 01:16 AM
I know it's a little late but thinking about when D'Brickashaw
Ferguson was coming out... and becoming a top 4 pick.


If Tyron Smith had played LT and not RT would he have even been there at 9 for the Boy's to draft him? Just thinking cause if he turns out anything like Brick, Dallas got one hell on a player at 9.

SickwithIt1010
05-16-2011, 01:29 AM
No he wouldnt have....IMO.

killxswitch
05-16-2011, 07:51 AM
If he had played LT AND had done as well there as he did at RT, then no, he would not have been available.

RedVision
05-16-2011, 09:48 AM
If Carimi would have played RT(projected pro position) instead of LT would have he been there at 29?

of course. They project players. His(smith) game film would not have been more impressive playing on the left side than it looked on the right side, which was awesome btw.

It just means in my mind that Khalil won't be available at 9 next year ;)

TACKLE
05-16-2011, 09:58 AM
I really don't think the fact that he played RT in college had much bearing on his stock at all.

FUNBUNCHER
05-16-2011, 10:04 AM
What it means is that Khalil is a beast and may end up going top 5 in 2012.

killxswitch
05-16-2011, 10:05 AM
I really don't think the fact that he played RT in college had much bearing on his stock at all.

Why? That was one of the biggest questions about him in the first place. "Can he play LT?" Because no one has seen it. Project whatever you want but there is no history of him playing the position that Dallas presumably drafted him to play.

Say there are two identical prospects, both of which are being looked at as future NFL LTs. One played LT extensively in college, the other played RT in college. Which player would be more valuable? This isn't even debatable IMO.

Babylon
05-16-2011, 01:36 PM
If Carimi would have played RT(projected pro position) instead of LT would have he been there at 29?

of course. They project players. His(smith) game film would not have been more impressive playing on the left side than it looked on the right side, which was awesome btw.

It just means in my mind that Khalil won't be available at 9 next year ;)

He may turn out to be a better pro in the long run but the reason they put Khalil at LT (per USC) was that they didnt want two guys playing new positions this past year. I doubt that Khalil playing on the left side was any kind of a knock on Smith. And i do agree Khalil wont be available at #9 next year.

RaiderNation
05-16-2011, 01:43 PM
Smith would probably be the 3rd or 4th OT behind Martin and Kalil.

descendency
05-16-2011, 04:58 PM
If Carimi would have played RT(projected pro position) instead of LT would have he been there at 29?

of course. They project players. His(smith) game film would not have been more impressive playing on the left side than it looked on the right side, which was awesome btw.

There are players that fail to translate from one side to another. It would definitely have helped his stock if he were a blindside tackle from day 1.

Then again, I really doubt the competency of teams that drafted in the top 8 this year, so it may not have caused his stock to go any higher.

I really don't think the fact that he played RT in college had much bearing on his stock at all.

There will always be questions when you play one position if you can translate to another. When you are drafting that high, you don't want questions like that. RT to LT isn't automatic. Some can't make the transition.

RedVision
05-16-2011, 06:01 PM
There will always be questions when you play one position if you can translate to another. When you are drafting that high, you don't want questions like that. RT to LT isn't automatic. Some can't make the transition.

You're right, Alex Barron comes to mind, but then again, he just wasn't very good.

onejayhawk
05-16-2011, 08:18 PM
IMO Tyron Smith should not have been there at #9. However, with 3 teams reaching for QBs, all of which I would rate lower, Dallas got lucky.

One thing that is consistently overlooked, in these discussions, is is Smith's age. He is so young substantial additional body development is expected. Had he come back for another year, he had a shot at #2 after Luck.

J

D-Unit
05-16-2011, 08:36 PM
If D'Brick was in this draft, where would he have gone?

bigbuc
05-16-2011, 08:40 PM
I say Bills at 3.

TACKLE
05-16-2011, 11:28 PM
Why? That was one of the biggest questions about him in the first place. "Can he play LT?" Because no one has seen it. Project whatever you want but there is no history of him playing the position that Dallas presumably drafted him to play.

Say there are two identical prospects, both of which are being looked at as future NFL LTs. One played LT extensively in college, the other played RT in college. Which player would be more valuable? This isn't even debatable IMO.

What? Who was legitimately concerned about his ability to play LT? The guy clearly had the length, athleticism and pass pro ability to play on the left side. That was never in question. His biggest questions were his weight, his ability to anchor and his power; three things that are more important for RT's in theory. Also, Tyron has only been playing RT for two seasons so it really shouldn't be that big of an adjustment to move back to the other side.

Also the difference in importance between LT and RT is one of the biggest fallacies in pro football right now. There is no correspondence in the league right now between teams that have top LT's and teams that have explosive offenses or even winning teams. Teams have found ways to put less pressure on that position with scheme adjustments and passing concepts. And in today's NFL its no longer just a pass rushing RE and a 285lb run stuffing LE. Especially with the growth of the 3-4, you now have athletic edge rushers on both sides. In your hypothetical scenario, you lean towards to LT simply because its an easier projection. But if both players have the desired traits and ability to play LT, it doesn't really matter.

Big Bird
05-16-2011, 11:48 PM
I don't know what people's obsessions with putting an 'H' in players names from USC is, but it needs to stop.

It's Matt Kalil, not Khalil.

Matt Leinart, not Leinhart.

the natural
05-17-2011, 12:36 AM
IMO Tyron Smith should not have been there at #9. However, with 3 teams reaching for QBs, all of which I would rate lower, Dallas got lucky.

One thing that is consistently overlooked, in these discussions, is is Smith's age. He is so young substantial additional body development is expected. Had he come back for another year, he had a shot at #2 after Luck.

J

Who were the 3 quarterbacks who went before Smith?

Saints-Tigers
05-17-2011, 07:57 AM
Has anyone mentioned that Ferguson was also a much better player than Smith was at the college level?

killxswitch
05-17-2011, 08:14 AM
What? Who was legitimately concerned about his ability to play LT? The guy clearly had the length, athleticism and pass pro ability to play on the left side. That was never in question. His biggest questions were his weight, his ability to anchor and his power; three things that are more important for RT's in theory. Also, Tyron has only been playing RT for two seasons so it really shouldn't be that big of an adjustment to move back to the other side.

Also the difference in importance between LT and RT is one of the biggest fallacies in pro football right now. There is no correspondence in the league right now between teams that have top LT's and teams that have explosive offenses or even winning teams. Teams have found ways to put less pressure on that position with scheme adjustments and passing concepts. And in today's NFL its no longer just a pass rushing RE and a 285lb run stuffing LE. Especially with the growth of the 3-4, you now have athletic edge rushers on both sides. In your hypothetical scenario, you lean towards to LT simply because its an easier projection. But if both players have the desired traits and ability to play LT, it doesn't really matter.

Seriously? I don't know what you were reading but his ability to transition to LT (since he NEVER PLAYED THAT POSITION) was one of the biggest questions about him. I don't know how that is even up for debate.

TACKLE
05-17-2011, 10:00 AM
Seriously? I don't know what you were reading but his ability to transition to LT (since he NEVER PLAYED THAT POSITION) was one of the biggest questions about him. I don't know how that is even up for debate.

Well I'm not saying that people didn't ask about his ability to transition to the left side. Sorry if it came off the wrong way or you misundersood what I was saying. I'm aware those questions existed. But I don't really recall any people legitimately worried about Tyron's ability to play LT. If those concerns existed, they were about as valid as having real concerns about Gabe Carimi's ability to play RT.

AntoinCD
05-17-2011, 10:25 AM
If D'Brick was in this draft, where would he have gone?

Im thinking either 3 overall to Buffalo or 5 to Arizona

D-Unit
05-17-2011, 10:40 AM
Im thinking either 3 overall to Buffalo or 5 to Arizona
Hmm... I don't know that they would pass up on Dareus or Peterson... He'd be an option for sure, but I'm not sold they would actually make the pick.

D-Unit
05-17-2011, 10:41 AM
Seriously? I don't know what you were reading but his ability to transition to LT (since he NEVER PLAYED THAT POSITION) was one of the biggest questions about him. I don't know how that is even up for debate.
What do you mean never? He played some LT as a freshman and definitely did in HS. NEVER? Might want to check your facts.

AntoinCD
05-17-2011, 10:43 AM
Hmm... I don't know that they would pass up on Dareus or Peterson... He'd be an option for sure, but I'm not sold they would actually make the pick.

I think in this draft D'Brick would be one of the top players available. Dareus is an extremely solid pick for Buffalo but I dont think he was the type of prospect they couldnt pass on. Arizona maybe, but I think if they felt a QB or OT was worth the pick they could find themselves passing on PP based on need

D-Unit
05-17-2011, 10:44 AM
He may turn out to be a better pro in the long run but the reason they put Khalil at LT (per USC) was that they didnt want two guys playing new positions this past year. I doubt that Khalil playing on the left side was any kind of a knock on Smith. And i do agree Khalil wont be available at #9 next year.
Bingo! We have a winner!


...come up and get your prize. :)

D-Unit
05-17-2011, 10:48 AM
I think in this draft D'Brick would be one of the top players available. Dareus is an extremely solid pick for Buffalo but I dont think he was the type of prospect they couldnt pass on. Arizona maybe, but I think if they felt a QB or OT was worth the pick they could find themselves passing on PP based on need
Fun topic of debate with no real answer, but as I said before, I'm still not sold. Dareus and Peterson are elite prospects in their own right. If a Bills or Cards fans would admit to it then I might put more weight into the thought though.

killxswitch
05-17-2011, 10:58 AM
What do you mean never? He played some LT as a freshman and definitely did in HS. NEVER? Might want to check your facts.

I was not referring to HS, as I didn't and don't think his HS experience is applicable to him being picked in the top 10 for the NFL. As for his freshman year I guess I should've said he never started at LT. The overwhelming majority of his starts (I think it was 100% of them but I will leave it open for doubt) was at RT.

Iamcanadian
05-17-2011, 12:17 PM
Nevertheless, Smith's knee condition probably took him out of the top 5 consideration more than the fact he played mostly RT in college. If his knee was 100%, he might have gone even higher.
Draftniks seem to get way too caught up in position switches and systems when analyzing prospects, every college prospect at every position, is going to have to learn everything about his pro position almost from scratch, it is like night and day, the differences between the pro game and college football.
I happen to think Jerry Jones is the worst GM/Owner in pro football and if Smith's knee fails to hold up, he may well add to his ineptitude, but I really did like the Smith pick.

the natural
05-17-2011, 03:44 PM
Biggest concerns I saw expressed about Smith were his football sense and passive nature. I don't know that either of those are cured by age. Also there was some skepticism that his rapid weight gain prior to the draft was natural. He isn't nearly as naturally gifted as Ryan Clady was coming out.

niel89
05-17-2011, 03:58 PM
Biggest concerns I saw expressed about Smith were his football sense and passive nature. I don't know that either of those are cured by age. Also there was some skepticism that his rapid weight gain prior to the draft was natural. He isn't nearly as naturally gifted as Ryan Clady was coming out.

I don't think the weight gain was that crazy. I'd be surprised if he was able to keep all that weight as the year went on though.

FUNBUNCHER
05-17-2011, 05:52 PM
I don't think the weight gain was that crazy. I'd be surprised if he was able to keep all that weight as the year went on though.

When you're 6'5, gaining roughly 20# in the 7-8 weeks prior to the combine when all you're doing is lifting for 2 hours a day and consuming nothing but protein shakes and 4000+calories/per, it's not that crazy IMO.

D-Unit
05-17-2011, 06:14 PM
Nevertheless, Smith's knee condition probably took him out of the top 5 consideration more than the fact he played mostly RT in college. If his knee was 100%, he might have gone even higher.
Draftniks seem to get way too caught up in position switches and systems when analyzing prospects, every college prospect at every position, is going to have to learn everything about his pro position almost from scratch, it is like night and day, the differences between the pro game and college football.
I happen to think Jerry Jones is the worst GM/Owner in pro football and if Smith's knee fails to hold up, he may well add to his ineptitude, but I really did like the Smith pick.
Why is Jerry the worst? He's got 3 superbowl wins and more winning seasons than losing seasons. Worst based off what? His personality or something?

D-Unit
05-17-2011, 06:17 PM
Biggest concerns I saw expressed about Smith were his football sense and passive nature. I don't know that either of those are cured by age. Also there was some skepticism that his rapid weight gain prior to the draft was natural. He isn't nearly as naturally gifted as Ryan Clady was coming out.
Sounds more like you don't have a clue about him as a player or you don't have a very good analytical eye.

Feel free to back up your statement in how you came about that opinion.

the natural
05-17-2011, 06:37 PM
I don't think the weight gain was that crazy. I'd be surprised if he was able to keep all that weight as the year went on though.

Smith was playing at under 280 last season. So it is a fairly significant gain over 3 months. Normally it would take a year of concentrated effort, I would think.

the natural
05-17-2011, 06:42 PM
Sounds more like you don't have a clue about him as a player or you don't have a very good analytical eye.

Feel free to back up your statement in how you came about that opinion.

It isn't my opinion, it was one expressed by the scouts. Compare him to Clady, who came out at the same age. Clady actually lost weight prior to the Combine. He was a right tackle who moved to the left side the year before he came out, and was All American on both sides. His resume as a draft pick was far beyond Smith's and Ryan was taken with the 12th pick of the draft. The second or third tackle that year, I think. Smith may be slightly better athletically, but as a football player he is nowhere near Clady coming out. Nor is there any guarantee that he will ever get there.

FUNBUNCHER
05-17-2011, 08:18 PM
Smith was playing at under 280 last season. So it is a fairly significant gain over 3 months. Normally it would take a year of concentrated effort, I would think.

How do you know PRECISELY what Tyron Smith's playing weight was last year at USC??


Oh that's right. You don't know.

The only official weight any of us has who aren't associated with the Trojans' football program is Smith's weight at the combine or allstar games.

Again, a 6'5 Olineman gaining lbs. is usually a helluva lot easier than it is for a skill position player, because Olineman aren't necessarily concerned with gaining 'good weight', i.e., mainly muscle.

the natural
05-17-2011, 08:56 PM
How do you know PRECISELY what Tyron Smith's playing weight was last year at USC??


Oh that's right. You don't know.

The only official weight any of us has who aren't associated with the Trojans' football program is Smith's weight at the combine or allstar games.

Again, a 6'5 Olineman gaining lbs. is usually a helluva lot easier than it is for a skill position player, because Olineman aren't necessarily concerned with gaining 'good weight', i.e., mainly muscle.

He was listed at 280 on the website, but the comments I heard were that it was a generous weight. Which is usually the case. Most team websites give the players an extra inch or two and some added poundage. That is 30 pounds in 3 months. Don't try it at home. But to get back to the point, the poster seems to feel that Smith was a steal at #9 and should have gone higher. Based on other players drafted at the position, I don't think that is the case. He was generally ranked lower than that on big boards, and even their rankings were based on a huge amount of projection due to his athleticism and relative youth. If you went strictly on performance in college, Smith would be the fifth or sixth tackle drafted. Likely in the mid to late second round.

Saints-Tigers
05-17-2011, 11:33 PM
Hmm... I don't know that they would pass up on Dareus or Peterson... He'd be an option for sure, but I'm not sold they would actually make the pick.


Would you take DAreus over Ngata?

Woody56
05-17-2011, 11:49 PM
Problem with putting on a lot of weight in short span like that is not gaining it, its keeping it on. Smith will be fortunate to keep 12-14lbs of that 30 pound gain. It was the same situation with D'Brick, he was 290 at Virginia, got up to 312 for the combine and during his rookie season he was back down in the low 290's. It was until last year where he could maintain his 310 pounds. True good weight gain has to be done gradually over time to be maintained.

descendency
05-18-2011, 12:50 AM
I don't know what people's obsessions with putting an 'H' in players names from USC is, but it needs to stop.

It's Matt Kalil, not Khalil.

Matt Leinart, not Leinhart.

Yeah. Bush didn't take monhey... he took money.

(sorry, had to do it)

D-Unit
05-18-2011, 02:41 AM
It isn't my opinion, it was one expressed by the scouts. Compare him to Clady, who came out at the same age. Clady actually lost weight prior to the Combine. He was a right tackle who moved to the left side the year before he came out, and was All American on both sides. His resume as a draft pick was far beyond Smith's and Ryan was taken with the 12th pick of the draft. The second or third tackle that year, I think. Smith may be slightly better athletically, but as a football player he is nowhere near Clady coming out. Nor is there any guarantee that he will ever get there.
I said nothing about Clady. I was commenting on the bold part of your post.

You said, "Biggest concerns I saw expressed about Smith were his football sense and passive nature."

That isn't someone else's opinion. That's yours. What makes you think his "biggest concerns" are his football sense and passive nature? How did you come to that evaluation?

the natural
05-18-2011, 01:17 PM
You said, "Biggest concerns I saw expressed about Smith were his football sense and passive nature."

What it says. I saw (read) those concerns expressed in scouting profiles. I think those exact words were in his PFW writeup, but I saw similar things said elsewhere. I'm not an expert, I rely on sources.

Iamcanadian
05-18-2011, 02:01 PM
Why is Jerry the worst? He's got 3 superbowl wins and more winning seasons than losing seasons. Worst based off what? His personality or something?

Jimmy Johnson produced the talent to win those SB's when he was drafting for the Cowboys not Jones. But the rumour is Jerry couldn't stand Johnson getting all the credit so he forced Jimmy out so he could take over. Switzer won one more with Johnson's talent.
Since then what has Jerry produced since he took over the GM duties???? = zero SB's.
I equate him to Al Davis with one huge exception, Davis was a brilliant HC and owner in his youth, it is only in his old age that he has lost his grip on reality and refuses to adjust for his age.

Iamcanadian
05-18-2011, 02:12 PM
Biggest concerns I saw expressed about Smith were his football sense and passive nature. I don't know that either of those are cured by age. Also there was some skepticism that his rapid weight gain prior to the draft was natural. He isn't nearly as naturally gifted as Ryan Clady was coming out.

I watched Smith workout at his pro day and that is what confirmed his top 10 rating. He was very aggressive and looked tough as nails. It looked like he could easily gain even more weight and would have no problem carrying 300+lbs.
That is why he is viewed as a RT in a worse case scenario, because he is tough enough to be an excellent run blocker if for any reason he doesn't survive on the left side.
I'd say he is more naturally gifted than Clady and when his strength catches up with his weight gain, he will be a dominate All Pro LT.
Like I said earlier in another post, if there weren't some concerns over his knee, he would have been a top 5 pick in the draft after his excellent workout at his pro day.

the natural
05-18-2011, 07:17 PM
I watched Smith workout at his pro day and that is what confirmed his top 10 rating. He was very aggressive and looked tough as nails. It looked like he could easily gain even more weight and would have no problem carrying 300+lbs.
That is why he is viewed as a RT in a worse case scenario, because he is tough enough to be an excellent run blocker if for any reason he doesn't survive on the left side.
I'd say he is more naturally gifted than Clady and when his strength catches up with his weight gain, he will be a dominate All Pro LT.
Like I said earlier in another post, if there weren't some concerns over his knee, he would have been a top 5 pick in the draft after his excellent workout at his pro day.

Clady was a three time All American at two different positions in college. He was bigger than Smith and had the same reach on draft day. Just a couple months difference in age when they came out. Still, he went 12th overall and was the second OT taken in the draft that year.

TACKLE
05-19-2011, 02:14 AM
I watched Smith workout at his pro day and that is what confirmed his top 10 rating. He was very aggressive and looked tough as nails.

Yes, he looked tenacious when he was hitting ******* bags. Are you serious with this? I'm fine with you saying you liked the way he moved and how well he carried his weight but to judge toughness and aggressiveness at a pro day is just ret*rded.

Iamcanadian
05-19-2011, 10:21 AM
Yes, he looked tenacious when he was hitting ******* bags. Are you serious with this? I'm fine with you saying you liked the way he moved and how well he carried his weight but to judge toughness and aggressiveness at a pro day is just ret*rded.

Just shows how out of touch you are. Nobody can judge how well a prospect will work at the next level to reach his ceiling, how determined he is to be great, but you cannot fool scouts, HC's and GM's about your physical ability or fool them by acting nasty. You either have a nasty attitude or your are passive in your approach. Smith came across as nasty and aggressive, I don't think it was an act and obviously neither did the Cowboys after they again worked him out privately.

FUNBUNCHER
05-19-2011, 11:27 AM
I think it's a poor read to judge a player's demeanor from his predraft workouts.

Some of the nastiest players look disinterested going through drills.

How 'nasty' did Nick Fairley look at the combine or at Auburn's pro day??

Playing disposition is strictly seen from film IMO.

D-Unit
05-19-2011, 11:29 PM
Jimmy Johnson produced the talent to win those SB's when he was drafting for the Cowboys not Jones. But the rumour is Jerry couldn't stand Johnson getting all the credit so he forced Jimmy out so he could take over. Switzer won one more with Johnson's talent.
Since then what has Jerry produced since he took over the GM duties???? = zero SB's.
I equate him to Al Davis with one huge exception, Davis was a brilliant HC and owner in his youth, it is only in his old age that he has lost his grip on reality and refuses to adjust for his age.
Why couldn't Jimmy Johnson repeat his success then? That suggestion is popular, but it simply holds no weight. The success of a SB is not placed on one man's shoulders. Jerry hired Jimmy and he put all the other pieces in place to make it work.

D-Unit
05-19-2011, 11:35 PM
What it says. I saw (read) those concerns expressed in scouting profiles. I think those exact words were in his PFW writeup, but I saw similar things said elsewhere. I'm not an expert, I rely on sources.
Oh ok... So you're talking passionately about a player that you haven't actually watched with your own eyes. Your opinion is based off articles from Pro Football Weekly and other published sources.

If you're gonna bash a player, at least watch him. Now I doubt you've ever seen Clady play ... or hell any other player you talk about.

Why don't you tell me what you think of Tyron here. Tell me if you still think he lacks football sense and is too passive.

hRL2h7_yLyI

the natural
05-19-2011, 11:45 PM
Oh ok... So you're talking passionately about a player that you haven't actually watched with your own eyes. Your opinion is based off articles from Pro Football Weekly and other published sources.

If you're gonna bash a player, at least watch him. Now I doubt you've ever seen Clady play ... or hell any other player you talk about.

Why don't you tell me what you think of Tyron here. Tell me if you still think he lacks football sense and is too passive.

hRL2h7_yLyI

LOL, I've watched the highlight videos like everyone else. What can you judge from that? Who actually focusses on an offensive lineman in a game unless they're being paid to do it? Nothing in my original post suggested I scouted the guy extensively. I merely repeated the concerns I saw professional evaluators make. Without knowing, or really caring, who you are, I give their opinions more credence than yours.

D-Unit
05-19-2011, 11:51 PM
LOL, I've watched the highlight videos like everyone else. What can you judge from that? Who actually focusses on an offensive lineman in a game unless they're being paid to do it? Nothing in my original post suggested I scouted the guy extensively. I merely repeated the concerns I saw professional evaluators make. Without knowing, or really caring, who you are, I give their opinions more credence than yours.
LOL at not being able to form your own opinion. Before you start bashing others' opinions, you should try to form your own rather than regurgitate articles from a magazine stand.

the natural
05-20-2011, 12:02 AM
LOL at not being able to form your own opinion. Before you start bashing others' opinions, you should try to form your own rather than regurgitate articles from a magazine stand.

So you're forming your opinions by crisscrossing the country 6 months of the year watching 4 or 5 college games a week? In person. Then getting coachs tape so you have something to work on in the motels between games? I hope you're making a good living at it. All I can afford is T.V. games for the most part, with some online video thrown in, and following the scouting sites. But that just doesn't compare to your exposure.

D-Unit
05-20-2011, 01:32 AM
So you're forming your opinions by crisscrossing the country 6 months of the year watching 4 or 5 college games a week? In person. Then getting coachs tape so you have something to work on in the motels between games? I hope you're making a good living at it. All I can afford is T.V. games for the most part, with some online video thrown in, and following the scouting sites. But that just doesn't compare to your exposure.
I just believe what I see. You believe what you read and you don't form your own opinions on a player from watching them. Yet you speak passionately about it as if you have, which is the really sad part. So passionate about bashing others' views when you yourself don't have your own view, just a borrowed view of whatever you select. Even if you did form your opinion from PFW and your other published sources, if you were being honest with yourself, then you would know that there isn't just 1 side of the story that says Tyron Smith lacks football sense and is too passive.

the natural
05-20-2011, 01:44 AM
I just believe what I see. You believe what you read and you don't form your own opinions on a player from watching them. Yet you speak passionately about it as if you have, which is the really sad part. So passionate about bashing others' views when you yourself don't have your own view, just a borrowed view of whatever you select. Even if you did form your opinion from PFW and your other published sources, if you were being honest with yourself, then you would know that there isn't just 1 side of the story that says Tyron Smith lacks football sense and is too passive.

How was the original post "passionate"? All I stated was the concerns I heard expressed by evaluators on scouting sites. It wasn't like I was jumping up and down saying that Smith was a gauranteed bust and would be in the UFL in two years, or anything. The OP was based on the premise that he should have gone "top 5". That seems a lot more controversial and "passionate" than anything I said.

Rabscuttle
05-20-2011, 05:07 PM
Is there any information out on how far down Dallas was trying to move on Day one and whether Smith was going to be there target if they did manage to move down? I'm curious what Jones thinks his new tackle's value actually is.

Babylon
05-20-2011, 06:38 PM
Is there any information out on how far down Dallas was trying to move on Day one and whether Smith was going to be there target if they did manage to move down? I'm curious what Jones thinks his new tackle's value actually is.

If the Cowboys wanted to be sure of getting Smith i think that 12 would have been as far as they could trade down to with the Lions picking next. I was a little surprised that the Vikings didnt try to trade up to grab Blaine Gabbert when he was still there at 9, maybe they did.

the natural
05-20-2011, 07:32 PM
Jacksonville definitely offered Dallas for the number nine pick. As soon as they saw Gabbert get past Tennessee they started trying to trade up. I think that Jones, Locker, and the two Smiths were all overdrafted. Tyron Smith reminds me of the situation of Amobe Okoye a few years back. He was an exceptional athlete who was very young and shot up the boards after the Combine. I think he went 10th overall in 2007, based on upside potential. Four years later he hasn't advanced at all.

SativaDominant
05-23-2011, 12:02 PM
In response to the OP, would playing LT his entire college career have improved his stock? I suppose, but people just naturally assumed that his skillset projects to the left side anyways. So I'm not to sure.

In all honestly, he was the most overdrafted player in this class besides the QB trio that went directly before and after him (Locker at 8, Gabbert at 10, Ponder at 12). I really don't see a whole lot of different in tape and/or upside to justify picking 8 spots higher than a guy Solder (who was a reach as well - both of them should have been selected in the late 1st).

The only thing he happens to do particularly well is get up to the second level in the run game. He's incredibly weak at the point of attack and he plays way too tall in the passing game (ie has trouble sinking his hips) and plays without leverage. Having the athleticism to block moving linebackers is nice and all, but do you really want that as the defining trait for your top 10 offensive lineman?

I mean, I see the upside, but counting on this guy to give you anything in the first two or three years of his career is a fool's errand. People are bringing up Ferguson...well, Ferguson was downright terrible for his first two or three years. If Dallas is expecting to line this kid up as a bookend his rookie year, they're in for a rude awakening.

D-Unit
05-23-2011, 12:39 PM
In response to the OP, would playing LT his entire college career have improved his stock? I suppose, but people just naturally assumed that his skillset projects to the left side anyways. So I'm not to sure.

In all honestly, he was the most overdrafted player in this class besides the QB trio that went directly before and after him (Locker at 8, Gabbert at 10, Ponder at 12). I really don't see a whole lot of different in tape and/or upside to justify picking 8 spots higher than a guy Solder (who was a reach as well - both of them should have been selected in the late 1st).

The only thing he happens to do particularly well is get up to the second level in the run game. He's incredibly weak at the point of attack and he plays way too tall in the passing game (ie has trouble sinking his hips) and plays without leverage. Having the athleticism to block moving linebackers is nice and all, but do you really want that as the defining trait for your top 10 offensive lineman?

I mean, I see the upside, but counting on this guy to give you anything in the first two or three years of his career is a fool's errand. People are bringing up Ferguson...well, Ferguson was downright terrible for his first two or three years. If Dallas is expecting to line this kid up as a bookend his rookie year, they're in for a rude awakening.
As a Dallas fan who used to make the connection to D'Brick, I fully acknowledged that transition time it took for D'Brick to develop into the player he is today. I think if you were to browse the Cowboys team forum draft thread, it would be littered with the concerns about Tyron needing time to reach his potential. At the same time, when you're talking about upgrading Marc Colombo, it doesn't take much to fill his spot.

I don't make the comparison to D'Brick today. For one, I don't like player comparisons. Situational comparisons are fine, but while comparing 2 people alike is popular, I just can't subscribe to that as sound logic. Tyron will grow into his own player and build his own reputation.

FUNBUNCHER
05-23-2011, 12:41 PM
Tyron Smith is a starter as a rookie and will be just fine IMO.