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Duffman57
05-20-2011, 12:54 AM
With the lack of football so far, i need my fix so i've been scouting out a bit of college football and looking at what i would assume to be our biggest need next year in a pass rusher.

So here are the list with Highlight vids if i can find them. (if you haven't realized, i've become somewhat obsessed with pass rushers moreso than any other position in the past few seasons of my following the draft). Obviously i haven't gotten to see a ton on all these guys so i'm going off limited game film and more highlight reel type things (aloaloysius has great stuff on youtube), so take it for what it is. So here are my favorite guys by tiers...

Tier 1 (worthy of an early/mid 1st rounder)

1. Bruce Irvin, WVU (This one was really back and fourth for me, more because of Irvin than Jenkins. Irvin has yet to be an every down player, which he will be this year and also played REALLY light at 235, but is now up to 245 lbs, and could be up to around 250lbs by the time the season is over. He's clearly the best pure pass rusher in the draft, as well as an incredible athlete. He's quick to the QB, incredibly quick off the line, and has a great amount of natural strength and with how much leverage he plays with, he is able to easily bull rush his way to the QB, so he's not just a speed rusher. You know he's not just a pure strait line pass rusher, because he's a former WR and S converted to OLB, and then ultimately to DE with WVU as a pass rusher. He's a great natural athlete that has a ridiculous amount of natural athleticism and fluidity to play in coverage, especially for a LB.

Tier 2 (Late 1st, Early 2nd)

2. Devin Taylor, South Carolina (Many people think that he's too tall to play in space as a OLB, but when you watch him play, he actually does rush out of a stand up quite a lot. While he doesn't have quite the burst that the elite pass rushers do, he makes his way to the QB with pure effort and great handwork. He's incredibly agile in space and will make plays being able to drop into zone coverage every now and then. If the Pats were still running a 34 D, he would scare the CRAP out of me in that system.)

3. Courtney Upshaw, Alabama (I personally think he's the most pro ready pass rusher in the group. There's no question in my mind, that he will come in and contribute in the pass rush department the second he steps onto a team. He doesn't have quite the elite ceiling that some of the other guys do (Jenkins/Irvin) but he will have the most immediate success. He has good burst off the line, great handwork and very good lateral agility. This is not to mention that he may be the most well rounded of the group outside of Ronnell Lewis. He has the title of "3-4 OLB" already at Alabama, so he does play a bit in coverage, but he plays about 50-75% of the snaps with his hand in the dirt rushing the passer. I see him as a guy very similar to Shaun Phillips, but much thicker and a inch or two shorter.)

4. Brandon Jenkins, Florida State (This is an interesting case. I dont really like him whatsoever. He basically has burst off the line, athleticism and thats it. Cant bull rush, doesn't really have any moves, other than a spin move every once and a while, and needs to be taught a LOT. He has the highest upside of the group, but he is RAW. Last year, he was just too light to do ANYTHING against the run, but somehow, he added 20 lbs in the offseason, so we will have to see how much that effects him, the good and the bad. He's one of the biggest wait and see cases here, he could either be at the top of the list or the bottom of the list here, it all depends on his improvement and how the weight effects him.)

5. Vinny Curry (I love this guy, very impressive stats, great pass rusher, and solid agility in space to play outside at OLB. He shows that if nothing else, he WILL get to the QB for whatever team drafts him. He's got that long lean body, but he still needs to fill it out a bit, playing at 6'5" 245-250 is just a bit too light for me, needs to get up 10 lbs or so at that height. Hard not to love this kid, though he is a little tall for the position.)

6. Nick Perry (Might be my favorite of the entire class, and i dearly hate USC. He's incredibly athletic, and has that build you look for in the mold of a Terrell Suggs type pass rusher with the thick lower body he has. He's explosive and is one of the best athletes in the group, and from the pre '10 workouts, while he was still injured, recorded a 35 inch vert, which really speaks to his athleticism. He's strong at the point and is very natural as a pass rusher, where he can set an OT up very easily, and once he beats you once or twice, he's gonna keep goin all day, because he keeps the OT guessing so well.)

Tier 3 (Late 2nd, Early 3rd)

7. Donta Paige-Moss, UNC (The more i watch him, the more i just think, OVERRATED...as an athlete, as a pass rusher and as a run stopper. When i first saw him, i was just going off peoples accounts of him, and everyone loves the big name guy. He's living completely off HS hype at this point. Doesn't get a lot of pressure, makes alot of coverage sacks, and is persistent, but doesn't use his hands well, doesn't have an elite get off and isn't that natural pass rusher like the others. He's more of a 4-3 RE at this point, but i'm still not a big fan.)

8. Brandon Lindsey, Pitt (Though i admittedly havent seen enough of him to make a fair judgement. He looks really promising. He's one of those guys thats really up and down. He'll have some incredible plays, but then he'll just disappear for a portion of the game, and then make a few great plays again. If he can be more consistent then, i'd be comfertable bumping him up to the 2nd group. One thing that i really love of him from what i've seen, he dips and bends better than anyone in this class. He's incredibly good at getting past the OT and flattening out. He's going to play the "panther LB" which is essentially the LEO position that Carroll uses in Seattle.)

9. Jonathan Massaquoi, Troy (He's another one of those guys. Even though he's only 6'2" 250, he's got a really long looking frame and is pretty lean. He's got solid burst off the snap, and has an insane effort level. He keeps going till he gets the job done. He kind of looks awkward in space but he's not going to be dropping much, since he is strong at the point and is a very good edge rusher, who is fine stunting and everything.)

Tier 4 (3rd to 4th round)

10. Ronnell Lewis, Oklahoma (He's a guy who could rise up alot. He's only 6'2" 240ish but he reminds me alot of James Harrison quite a bit. He's got really good burst, but his best asset is his physicality and versatility. He's one aggressive freakin dude. He's really good dropping back into coverage, and although he's smaller, he hits almost as hard as Harrison. He could be in the 3rd group after the season, but as of right now, he's in the 4th group, probably just a 4th rounder right now.)

Tier 5 (4th to 5th round)

Allan Branch (Dont really like him at all. Doesn't seem athletic to me, and doesn't do anything real well. His jump off the ball isn't anything special. He's strong, but doesn't combine that with speed. He's late off the snap most plays. So i'm not putting stock in him to amount to anything.)

These next three guys are ones that i still want to make sure that their in the conversation, but i have yet to see them play, so i cannot speak on anything that they do. So these guys could be Tier 2 guys for all i know, but again, havent seen um, so cant pass judgment on um.

Cam Johnson, Virginia

Jaques Smith

Alex Okeafor

Sleepers:
Sammy Brown Houston (Smaller guy with a TON of stats, should be getting more hype as he already plays as a rush LB and has monster stats)

Cornelius Washington (Bigger dude, but is a freak, at 250 in preseason workouts last year ran a 4.29 40 and had a 38" vert. Could be a breakout like Houston did last year)

Frank Alexander (Really athletic guy, bigtime recruit that has underperformed so far, and had 7.5 sacks last year. Could put up BIG numbers)

Devon Kennard (Kind of a guy who is interesting, has played all 3 LB spots and DE with USC, moving back to DE, want to see more of him, but VERY versatile)

Dexter Heyman (Freakish athletically but small for the spot. Is only 240 ish but runs a 4.5, has potential, but isn't a standout yet, moving from OLB to DE this year, so the numbers could come)

kwilk103
05-20-2011, 01:10 AM
irvin is still pretty raw

he went to juco as a wr/safety; only played 1 yr of de there and 1 yr of de at wvu

our dc said if he could learn the position hes fast enough to play safety

roscoesdad27
05-20-2011, 06:00 AM
1) Lots of undersized guys.....curry, jenkins, lindsey, dpm.

2) I really like dpm as a 4-3 olb/r.e. hybrid just like von miller will be.

3) you left off C. Upshaw and A. Branch.....both can play solb with there size and both have shown some ability in space.....Upshaw reminds me of Willie McGinist.

4) also keep an eye on C. Jones from Syracuse.

5) your right about no top end guys....all the great pass rushers (wolb) need size and all the guys with size are the less coveted solb types that lack explosion.

SickwithIt1010
05-20-2011, 12:28 PM
http://losangeles.sbnation.com/usc-trojans/2011/5/19/2180331/usc-football-devon-kennard-switch-to-defensive-end

Not for sure yet, but Kennard was the top DE prospect coming out of high school and was moved to LB at SC. Played Mike in the Tampa 2 and while he wasnt great, showed that he was athletic enough to play in coverage. I think this guy could make some noise if he is able to show off his pass rushing abilities whether it be at DE or SAM.

Duffman57
05-20-2011, 12:29 PM
1) Lots of undersized guys.....curry, jenkins, lindsey, dpm.

2) I really like dpm as a 4-3 olb/r.e. hybrid just like von miller will be.

3) you left off C. Upshaw and A. Branch.....both can play solb with there size and both have shown some ability in space.....Upshaw reminds me of Willie McGinist.

4) also keep an eye on C. Jones from Syracuse.

5) your right about no top end guys....all the great pass rushers (wolb) need size and all the guys with size are the less coveted solb types that lack explosion.

Your confused DPM is listed at 268, not small at ALL, no way at all he's a 4-3 OLB, and now that i look at it, Jenkins is listed at 258, which isn't all that small either.

And honestly i didn't know what to think about Upshaw. He's not really a true 3-4 OLB, he's more of a hybrid LB in that system where he is gonna move around alot. Dont really know much abour branch, need to look at him more.

Big Bird
05-20-2011, 12:44 PM
Brandon Jenkins gets dominated at the POA. He is simply useless against the run.

I use to like Everette Brown, but I learned from my mistakes in the past. Jenkins isn't even as dynamic of a pass rusher as Brown, and Brown is doing nothing in the NFL. As of now, I can't see Jenkins doing anything in the NFL that warrants a Top 100 selection, let alone 1st Round.

roscoesdad27
05-20-2011, 02:30 PM
Your confused DPM is listed at 268, not small at ALL, no way at all he's a 4-3 OLB, and now that i look at it, Jenkins is listed at 258, which isn't all that small either.

And honestly i didn't know what to think about Upshaw. He's not really a true 3-4 OLB, he's more of a hybrid LB in that system where he is gonna move around alot. Dont really know much abour branch, need to look at him more.

Thought I seen him listed at 245, maybe I'm wrong.

Duffman57
05-20-2011, 03:50 PM
Thought I seen him listed at 245, maybe I'm wrong.

Jenkins was listed at 245 last year, but is listed now at 258 (must have been really recent, cuz i thought i remember it was 245 when i started doing this a few days ago.

But DPM has always been right around 260 or so, and is now at 265ish.

Duffman57
05-20-2011, 03:51 PM
Brandon Jenkins gets dominated at the POA. He is simply useless against the run.

I use to like Everette Brown, but I learned from my mistakes in the past. Jenkins isn't even as dynamic of a pass rusher as Brown, and Brown is doing nothing in the NFL. As of now, I can't see Jenkins doing anything in the NFL that warrants a Top 100 selection, let alone 1st Round.

I wanna see him this year now that he's bumped his weight up to 258. That will make him much much stronger at the point.

Pat Sims 90
05-21-2011, 12:17 AM
Curry should be in tier 1 guy is a beast.

ellsy82
05-21-2011, 03:50 AM
Meh...I'll say it again. Sammy Brown, Houston. Has experience in a 3-4 defense, is explosive, and has the production. The next DeMarcus Ware.

Duffman57
05-21-2011, 12:40 PM
Meh...I'll say it again. Sammy Brown, Houston. Has experience in a 3-4 defense, is explosive, and has the production. The next DeMarcus Ware.

He's for sure one to watch out for, but he's really light right now and i havent seen him so i cant really speak on him. Looks kinda promising though, out of JC he was 6"3" 232 and ran a 4.56

ellsy82
05-25-2011, 02:03 AM
He's for sure one to watch out for, but he's really light right now and i havent seen him so i cant really speak on him. Looks kinda promising though, out of JC he was 6"3" 232 and ran a 4.56

For what its worth...he's up to 242 now.

Duffman57
05-25-2011, 02:39 AM
For what its worth...he's up to 242 now.

Yah, that changes a bit, but i would expect at the combine that he would be up to that golden 250 peak (usually the number associated with 3-4 OLB's.) hopefully. But he looks like quite the player, i'm interested to watch him I watched the two games that they had on ESPN3 and he looks REAL active behind the line of scrimage and has pretty decent handwork (something that i look at first and foremost in pass rushers (Which is why i was way down on Acho last year, only thing he had going for him was 3 cone numbers and a good sr. bowl). He just lives in the backfield. Hes now a sleeper of mine.

Matthew Jones
05-25-2011, 06:31 AM
Something no one mentions about Paige-Moss is that the guy can't get off blocks to save his life. He spends at least a good 80% of games playing patty-cake with offensive linemen and getting run straight out of plays. One of the most overrated prospects thus far. I imagine he'll make a leap forward this year but I haven't been very impressed to this point.

America
05-25-2011, 02:16 PM
Alex Okafor 1) Is not likely to declare early and 2) played DT last year. He has moved back to DE, but he's pretty much strictly a base end. I very much doubt teams would think about putting him in space.

Duffman57
05-26-2011, 12:57 AM
Alex Okafor 1) Is not likely to declare early and 2) played DT last year. He has moved back to DE, but he's pretty much strictly a base end. I very much doubt teams would think about putting him in space.

So did Sam Acho. He played mostly DT this year, which was because they were freakishly light at DT, so they had their two biggest DE's (Acho/Okeafor) play DT and play backup DE's. Just because he played DT doesn't mean he doesn't have the lateral agility to play 3-4 OLB, like Acho showed us. And he is one hell of an athlete.

Duffman57
05-26-2011, 04:28 AM
Just curious, another few guys that i thought about adding but i have no clue about, and dont know if they even fit in this position are below. Can someone let me know about these guys...

Ronnell Lewis
Nico Johnson
Chase Thomas
Sean Fisher

Anyone have any info on these guys?

Texas Homer
05-26-2011, 10:32 PM
Alex Okafor is a tall dude too(Listed 6'4.5--Looks legit on tv) to go along with his athleticism.

ellsy82
05-27-2011, 01:03 AM
Alex Okafor is a tall dude too(Listed 6'4.5--Looks legit on tv) to go along with his athleticism.

Gotta consider him to be an ideal candidate for a DE. I wanna see how explosive he is before I label him a pass rusher in a 34 front tho.

FUNBUNCHER
05-27-2011, 09:03 AM
Nice early scouting report.


I'll be honest, I'm familiar with about maybe two of these prospects, but damn if half of what was posted is accurate, is the 2012 draft class really that deep at the hybrid 34 OLB position???

Duffman57
05-27-2011, 03:52 PM
Nice early scouting report.


I'll be honest, I'm familiar with about maybe two of these prospects, but damn if half of what was posted is accurate, is the 2012 draft class really that deep at the hybrid 34 OLB position???

Its really going to depend on who comes out. Perry, Washington, Paige Moss, Jenkins, Taylor and Okeafor, and Massoquoi are all Jr's from that list, and i would bet against Okeafor, Massoquoi and Washington declaring. But yes, there are a LOT of great pass rushers in this draft. It is stacked at LB for any 3-4 position, which is why i really hope that the Chargers are looking that way this year.

wicket
05-27-2011, 04:12 PM
look out for Darius Fleming, should be a mid rounder come draft day at least

roscoesdad27
05-27-2011, 05:33 PM
I see Sammy Brown as the next 4-3 slb/r.e. hybrid ala Von Miller, Orakpo and Kam Wimbley. I have him going to Jacksonville in round 2 at pick 39 to play this role for the jags in my latest ruff draft mock.

1) DPM....UNC
2) B. Jenkins....FSU

3) V. Curry....Marshall
4) D. Taylor... S. Carolina

5) C. Jones... Syracuse
6) C. Upshaw... Alabama
7) B. Lindsey...Pitt

8) A. Branch... Clemson
9) S. Skov... Stanford

10) J. Massaquio.... Troy

niel89
05-27-2011, 05:38 PM
9) S. Skov... Stanford


Skov is more of a ILB in a 3-4. He was pretty awesome there too.

Duffman57
06-28-2011, 01:40 AM
Just recently watched quite a few Devin Taylor and Coutney Upshaw and to say the least, I'm impressed for the most part.

Devin Taylor has some very good skills, but also some stuff that needs work. He's got a solid set of moves, with a very solid Bull rush, Rip and spin move, and just from watching a few clips, he looked VERY solid when he's dropping back in coverage (for the very few times he did, i only saw like 5 plays where he did) which was a HUGE surprise for me. I thought that was where he was going to struggle, but he actually looked very comfortable both rushing out of a standup, and dropping back into coverage. The thing i'm worried about, was i didn't know he was THAT skinny. He's 6'6" but only weighs about 245-250. With the length and frame that he has, he needs to add AT LEAST 10 lbs, its probably better off gaining 20, but will he keep his explosiveness with that weight, is the big issue from me.

Upshaw was a guy that i viewed as before as a tweener OLB/ILB and wasn't a pure pass rusher, and then i realized how little i had actually seen of him (almost none). He plays alot of DE in a 4-3 front (Bama runs a hybrid, almost like that of the Ravens) and might be the most pro-ready pass rusher in the class. Not saying that he's the best pass rusher, but he's the most pro ready. He has incredible handwork, even though he has somewhat shorter arms, and a more compact, stocky body. He has a solid burst off the line and since he plays alot of OLB, he is comfortable playing in space and in coverage. He has a VERY good swim move, and Aztec (Thats at least what my coach called it, its basically just slapping the hands down to get the OT lunging and beat him with speed after that). He definitely belongs in the first round discussion. I'd probably put him in the last spot of the first tier i have in the OP.

ShockTreatment
06-29-2011, 11:02 AM
Jesus, who is doing the defensive recruiting at UNC? Guy should be given a medal by the heels.

BamaFalcon59
06-29-2011, 12:12 PM
Yes, the recruiter must be great, but he's also the head coach and blows in that department...

jbooshey
06-30-2011, 08:25 PM
Keep an eye on a Wisconsin DE named Louis Nzegwu. He is always reported as one of the fastest players/best athletes on the team and is listed at 6'4" 245lbs. He needs to be more productive this year, but based on his athleticism, he should be a combine invite and then he'll blow away the scouts and be labeled a workout warrior. Hopefully he steps up on the field with the loss of JJ Watt. Just another kid to keep an eye on.

Duffman57
06-30-2011, 10:05 PM
Keep an eye on a Wisconsin DE named Louis Nzegwu. He is always reported as one of the fastest players/best athletes on the team and is listed at 6'4" 245lbs. He needs to be more productive this year, but based on his athleticism, he should be a combine invite and then he'll blow away the scouts and be labeled a workout warrior. Hopefully he steps up on the field with the loss of JJ Watt. Just another kid to keep an eye on.

Interesting, he looks pretty solid from what i've seen of him, need to do some major work on his pass rushing, but other than that, looks like he could be a solid mid round prospect.

Duffman57
07-02-2011, 12:32 AM
The more i watch him, the more i'm disappointed in what i see from Brandon Jenkins. People can be impressed by the sack numbers and how he played against the possible top pass blocking OT in Costanzo, but right now, he looks like a situational speed rusher who is good dropping into coverage. In a 4-3, he's nearly useless outside of 3rd down rush duties. He just seems like he's got no pass rush moves other than to beat guys off the edge. Its almost impossible for him to get to the QB once he was head to head with a blocker. I just dont see a first rounder when i watch him. It looks like if he gets to the QB, he'll get the sack, but he doesn't do much if he doesn't get the sack.

When i see DPM, theres NO possible way that he is lower than 255. He's got a THICK lower body, he's gotta be bigger than the ungodly low 235 that he's listed at. But other than that, i see a great athlete, who shows flashes of the refine that he needs, but isn't quite there. If he goes out and plays like his athleticism shows he should be able to, then he's a mid, or even possibly a early first rounder. He's got pretty good burst off the line, has a good rip move and a very good pull through (i dont know what to call it, but engages and just simply gets the OL off balance with a strong punch, and when they lunge back you pull through to get by). DPM, Taylor and Upshaw are now really rising up my board, solid first round picks (for taylor if he fills out his frame more, gets to around 260+)

Duffman57
07-02-2011, 01:32 AM
Updates to some other guys...

Bruce Irvin drops down my board because, although he has great pass rushing ability, in every sense of the word, really elite, he just can do nothing against the run. He's completely one dementional, somewhat of a Dumervil type player, great player, but needs to have mroe than one skill to be a every down impact player.

Vinny Curry is also a pretty dang good player in his own right. His problem is that, although he's stout against the run, he can get caught going too far upfield (applies in pass rushing) where he is easy to wash out. He tries to use his speed too much, when he is very capable of squaring up with a blocker and using a move to beat him. Its a small thing, but it makes the difference between being a mid 1st or a solid 2nd to 3rd.

ellsy82
07-02-2011, 02:41 AM
Skov is more of a ILB in a 3-4. He was pretty awesome there too.

Ugh..that's BS to label him to one spot...He's dynamic in a way that you've rarely seen linebackers. You should reconsider your stance.

Duffman57
07-02-2011, 04:47 AM
Ugh..that's BS to label him to one spot...He's dynamic in a way that you've rarely seen linebackers. You should reconsider your stance.

Though he is a good player, he's best fit at ILB in the 3-4, maybe not his only position, but its for sure his best, since he's played there the last few years, and will again, play the 3-4 ILB spot this year. If he was a better pass rusher, he would have played as an OLB in stanford's 3-4.

ellsy82
07-02-2011, 01:13 PM
Though he is a good player, he's best fit at ILB in the 3-4, maybe not his only position, but its for sure his best, since he's played there the last few years, and will again, play the 3-4 ILB spot this year. If he was a better pass rusher, he would have played as an OLB in stanford's 3-4.

I'm not saying his best fit isn't in a 34 front mack situation, but he's not limited to it. I'm sorry, but 3-4 inside linebackers get far less credit than they deserve. If they're elite, they can cover, pass rush inside, stop the run, and cover their side of the field against dumps and screens. That is a pretty damn important job. And when you look at some of the elite defenses in the league running a 3-4 defense, there's always a solid semi-probowler at the middle linebacker spot.

Back to my point, I think he can play any linebacker spot in any scheme. Do I worry about his ability to shed blocks and break free of stronger opponents?Well, sure. However, the kid has yet to play his junior year in college, is a workout rat, and loves the game. I don't see why he couldn't be a solid "all-situations" linebacker. Would be perfect for a 3-4 defense (especially in sub-packages and special teams), but would be more than adequate in a 4-3 front...again, at any linebacker position.

Duffman57
07-02-2011, 02:53 PM
I'm not saying his best fit isn't in a 34 front mack situation, but he's not limited to it. I'm sorry, but 3-4 inside linebackers get far less credit than they deserve. If they're elite, they can cover, pass rush inside, stop the run, and cover their side of the field against dumps and screens. That is a pretty damn important job. And when you look at some of the elite defenses in the league running a 3-4 defense, there's always a solid semi-probowler at the middle linebacker spot.

Back to my point, I think he can play any linebacker spot in any scheme. Do I worry about his ability to shed blocks and break free of stronger opponents?Well, sure. However, the kid has yet to play his junior year in college, is a workout rat, and loves the game. I don't see why he couldn't be a solid "all-situations" linebacker. Would be perfect for a 3-4 defense (especially in sub-packages and special teams), but would be more than adequate in a 4-3 front...again, at any linebacker position.

Um...where did you see anyone ever dispute that? He said that he's more of a ILB in a 3-4, not that he's strictly a ILB. And you REALLY have a man boner for the guy. He's a solid LB prospect, that can do it all, but really doesn't do anything spectacular. He's not the dynamic LB that you make him out to be, but he's a solid player. If your looking for Dynamic, Burfict is that in EVERY sense of the word. Fast, instinctual, makes the big plays and is a freak.

ellsy82
07-03-2011, 11:04 AM
Um...where did you see anyone ever dispute that? He said that he's more of a ILB in a 3-4, not that he's strictly a ILB. And you REALLY have a man boner for the guy. He's a solid LB prospect, that can do it all, but really doesn't do anything spectacular. He's not the dynamic LB that you make him out to be, but he's a solid player. If your looking for Dynamic, Burfict is that in EVERY sense of the word. Fast, instinctual, makes the big plays and is a freak.

Haha. Take it easy. Yeah, I like this player more than others, its not a big secret. I'm also a huge fan (and critic) of Burflict. They're both rough drafts...2011 will hopefully resolve that. Skov could end up being a first rounder, that's what I'm saying.

Duffman57
07-03-2011, 01:36 PM
Haha. Take it easy. Yeah, I like this player more than others, its not a big secret. I'm also a huge fan (and critic) of Burflict. They're both rough drafts...2011 will hopefully resolve that. Skov could end up being a first rounder, that's what I'm saying.

Haha, yah. I'm not saying that he cant boost his stock way up this year, but i'm just sayin at this point in time hes nothing more than a very solid all around LB.

ellsy82
07-04-2011, 11:35 AM
Haha, yah. I'm not saying that he cant boost his stock way up this year, but i'm just sayin at this point in time hes nothing more than a very solid all around LB.

Burflict is a freaky beast. Wouldn't you say that Skov's potential is through the roof (not off the charts)?

Duffman57
08-26-2011, 06:15 PM
I wanted to bump this instead of creating a new one. But i updated it as of today, so the new rankings are up.

Matthew Jones
08-26-2011, 06:26 PM
At this point, I have Devin Taylor ranked as my top 3-4 OLB (16 on the big board), with Brandon Jenkins (19) and Donte Paige-Moss (20) close behind. Aside from that, I like Upshaw (32), Andre Branch (38), Bruce Irvin (39), and Vinny Curry (44) a lot. I've heard good things about Brandon Lindsey and Jonathan Massaquoi but need to watch more of both before I judge them. I see Taylor, Paige-Moss, Branch, and Upshaw as guys for more physical teams, whereas Jenkins, Irvin, and Curry seem to rely more on athleticism.

Duffman57
08-26-2011, 07:08 PM
At this point, I have Devin Taylor ranked as my top 3-4 OLB (16 on the big board), with Brandon Jenkins (19) and Donte Paige-Moss (20) close behind. Aside from that, I like Upshaw (32), Andre Branch (38), Bruce Irvin (39), and Vinny Curry (44) a lot. I've heard good things about Brandon Lindsey and Jonathan Massaquoi but need to watch more of both before I judge them. I see Taylor, Paige-Moss, Branch, and Upshaw as guys for more physical teams, whereas Jenkins, Irvin, and Curry seem to rely more on athleticism.

DPM is WAY overrated and in no way is the 20th player in the class. All Hype, no skill. Branch is another guy that i've never really liked, Seems slow, and just not productive coming off the edge. Isn't near athletic enough to play OLB, just like DPM IMO. Branch is pretty bad off the snap as well. Doesn't have that anticipation.

There is one word that describes Massaquoi, and that is RELENTLESS. He shows the potential to have an elite burst off the snap, but its inconsistent. Sometimes he'll be the last one off the snap, but at others, he's EASILY the first one off the snap. He's more of a power rusher, but he is quite a good athlete. I think he could be one of the fast risers.

Jenkins does try to get by off strait athleticism alot, but Irvin and Curry, although they are very good athletes, and their athleticism does help them, both have VERY good handwork. Especially Irvin, who has really heavy hands, and is really natural rushing the passer. But i do suppose that they, along with Perry, get by more with athleticism than the others and Taylor, DPM and Branch are more physical rushers. I will disagree with you on Upshaw though. As a pass rusher, he gets by on burst off the snap, technique, and natural leverage moreso than strength.

M.O.T.H.
08-26-2011, 07:41 PM
We'll have to keep an eye on Taylor's weight, really. The guys is already 6'7...which in itself, may be awkwardly tall for a 34 OLB. And some have said that he's weighing in at 270 now, or close to it. He may very well grow himself out of playing LB in the pros.

Duffman57
08-26-2011, 08:19 PM
We'll have to keep an eye on Taylor's weight, really. The guys is already 6'7...which in itself, may be awkwardly tall for a 34 OLB. And some have said that he's weighing in at 270 now, or close to it. He may very well grow himself out of playing LB in the pros.

Agreed. I'm only going off listed weight, and at 260, he's at the perfect weight to play OLB. But if he does get up to 270+, then he will place himself out of playing as a 34 OLB.

Ozzy
08-26-2011, 09:41 PM
Where is Dont'a Hightower? That kid could be a monster at setting the edge. Big kid, brings a big punch, he has a chance as a 3/4 OLB in my opinion, is better at that then playing in a ILB spot in a 4/3, could play 3/4 ILB but not sure he has the quickness, if he was just a pure pass rush guy he could hold up I feel, big time power but in great shape all of the time.

Nathan Williams Ohio State, where is he at, he is one heck of a player and is a lot like Kruger on the Ravens, good technique guy, uses his hands well, stocky, he could play in a 3/4 I feel.

Kyle Wilber Wake Forest- huge mistake not having him, kid is long, tall, he could really fit into a 3/4 and do very well for himself, be a 2nd or 3rd round pick possibly.

Audie Cole NC State- I would love in a 3/4, with his speed, great in coverage, has the size, is a good enough athlete, could argue he is better than a lot of 3/4 OLB you listed.

Steven Sylvester Georgia Tech- Very good late round prospect, decent pass rusher and gives good effort.

D.T. Shackelford Ole Miss- Would be up there but got injured I guess and is out for the year.

Jacob Lattimer Iowa State- He has to be on the list, huge effort guy, can really get after the quarterback and has potential to play that position, not a strong guy but just like Kerrigan he can get after the quarterback and play with effort.



So a lot of potential 3/4 OLB missing on this list I would say.

TuckNole
08-29-2011, 10:20 PM
Jenkins had problems against the run last year because he was too light (Played at 245-250). He reportedly bulked up to 270 this year, and then lost 5 pounds to settle at a 265 playing weight. That is where he is listed right now. This should help him a ton against the run.

SolidGold
08-30-2011, 07:26 AM
Do you guys think the 4-3 will be coming back in the next few years? A few teams have gone back to the 4-3 this offseason (Browns/Broncos). After awhile it seems that the talent pool dries up (I remember reading an article in 2003/2004 predicting the demise of the 3-4) - with all the teams currently running 3-4 alot of good 4-3 DE either are viewed as 3-4 OLB prospects (it's not the easiest of transitions to play with your hand down to you standing up) or slide due to the face they don't always project well to 3-4 OLB.

phlysac
08-30-2011, 09:07 AM
Do you guys think the 4-3 will be coming back in the next few years? A few teams have gone back to the 4-3 this offseason (Browns/Broncos). After awhile it seems that the talent pool dries up (I remember reading an article in 2003/2004 predicting the demise of the 3-4) - with all the teams currently running 3-4 alot of good 4-3 DE either are viewed as 3-4 OLB prospects (it's not the easiest of transitions to play with your hand down to you standing up) or slide due to the face they don't always project well to 3-4 OLB.

You could also argue the opposite, that with more and more colleges going to wide-open spread offenses, that defenders will get smaller and faster, allowing for less of a "prototype" and even more position conversion at the next level.

Duffman57
08-31-2011, 12:42 PM
Jenkins had problems against the run last year because he was too light (Played at 245-250). He reportedly bulked up to 270 this year, and then lost 5 pounds to settle at a 265 playing weight. That is where he is listed right now. This should help him a ton against the run.

Which i think will possibly hurt him just as much as it helps him, with his inconsistent burst off the line. And speed around the edge, which were his two best assets last year, but could be greatly compromised with adding 20 lbs in one offseason.

As for the 4-3, its always gonna kind of go back and fourth, but i expect it to be pretty much even for a while, like it is now (you forgot to mention Baltimore is also going to a more 4-3 heavy system, and the pats look like their completely switching to a 43).

TuckNole
08-31-2011, 07:25 PM
On Jenkins, I guess it could also be mentioned that while he may be the rawest of the top prospects, he was only a true sophomore last year and it was his first year with a real coach. His freshman year was still the old Bowden regime and his position coach was a family friend who might have been the least qualified coach from a BCS school. The HS program he came from is garbage as well, so what you saw, was Jenkins after 1 year of real coaching.

Good news and bad news for anyone who drafts him. Bad news is that he hasn't had a lot of technique coaching and relies heavily on his athleticism. Good news is that athleticism is so phenomenal that he heavily outplayed every OT he went against including an elite 1st round pick.

Duffman57
09-05-2011, 11:56 PM
Just finished watching the Marshal vs. WVU game, and here are my notes on Irvin and Curry

Irvin is an INSANE athlete. His quickness off the ball is rivaled by none, almost at the level of a guy like Cameron Wake (probably the best in the NFL). He looks good as more of an every down player, showing an incredibly strong punch coming out of his stance, and though he can get eaten up at times, he still looks very good as an all around player. He does remind me alot of Cameron Wake in the NFL with the sort of insane athleticism he has (maybe doesn't quite have a 45.5 inch vert like Wake, but again, similar athleticism) and incredible pass rushing prowess. Once again, great handwork, great athleticism, great natural instincts as a pass rusher.

Curry is much more of a power rusher who wins with his relentless effort and strength rather than Irvin. He's got enough burst off the snap to gain an advantage, but it isn't elite like Jenkins/Irvin and does a good job of getting low and getting under O linemen's pads and drives them back pretty easily once he does. He's got good handwork once he is able to gain leverage. The problem i see with him is that he's REALLY undersized for a guy whos a power rusher. If he is going to be that type of pass rusher he needs to be about 260, maybe more, and right now he's listed at 6'5" 240, even though he looks a lot bigger, but that could jsut be his body type, which he needs to gain 20 lbs and not lose the burst off the snap. He kind of seems like more of a 4-3 RE, since he's a bit awkward in space, but i think he would be fine as an OLB.

Also Just finished watching the ESPN3 replay of FSU and LMU, and Brandon Jenkins looks 100% improved. He took care of almost every question i had (albeit only against LMU so i'll wait another week or two to give him the #1 34OLB until he plays some good comp, though he did look the part this week). He rushed out of a 2 pt stance a few times and looked solid. He had 1 sack, and i'm not sure if they counted his second one as a sack (it looked like a designed QB run play, but it was so messed up, i couldn't really tell)

Tank Carradine looks Intriguing. He's got an elite burst off the snap for such a big guy (265+) and has real heavy hands at the point and his hands are very active. I want to see more of him, but i think he could be really good going further into the year. Looks like he has the quickness and agility to play OLB.