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MI_Buckeye
05-20-2011, 03:14 AM
Can't wait to hear what you guys think on this one. I know their are a ton of Chiefs fans on these boards, ones with a lot of passion too. G-men are up next.

Kansas City Chiefs

Where did the franchise stand before the draft?

A year after easily one of the most surprising seasons in recent memory, The Chiefs must prove their 2010 AFC West championship was no fluke.

With the No. 1 ranked rushing game in the league and a feisty, opportunistic defense, the Chiefs went from one of the worst organizations in the league to hosting a playoff game last season. Jamaal Charles finished among the league's top ground gainers despite getting fewer carries than the always-reliable Thomas Jones. In a passing league, this is one team willing to defy convention.

However, not everybody is convinced this team is for real. Their offense relied on a lot of quirky imagination from coordinator Charlie Weis, who is now at the University of Florida. Their passing game, both in terms of protection and production, was highly suspect and exposed by some of the league's more fierce defenses, most especially in their home playoff game against the Ravens.

Their defense plays incredibly hard, and gets the most out of their ability, but the question remains just how talented they really are. Outside of Tamba Hali, nobody provides much threat as a pass rusher, and as much as they have invested on the defensive line, that unit remains solid but far from great.

On the bright side, this team is one of the youngest in the NFL and has made a concerted effort on building through the draft. Eric Berry looks like a future star at free safety and several players from the last three drafts, which includes the final draft of the Herman Edwards era, are starters on the team currently.

In his time, GM Scott Pioli has brought in guys that fit into the culture he has brought with him from the New England Patriots. By bringing in an energetic, confident head coach in Todd Haley and placing a heavy emphasis on character, intelligence and versatility, he built a roster that was capable of overachieving last season and has the prospect of developing into a legitimate power franchise, if they are able to keep all the core pieces together.

Immediately, the Chiefs had a number of positions where they could use an immediate upgrade -- pass-rushing OLB, No.2 WR, and O-line most significantly.

The Picks

Round One, Pick 26 (from Cleveland): Jonathan Baldwin, WR, Pittsburgh

When Baltimore and Chicago has their little draft trade SNAFU, Kansas City was ready to pounce, even though it probably didn't make that big of a difference.

Baldwin was one of the true surprises of the first round for several reasons. One, it is not in Pioli's makeup to take either a WR or a player with questionable attitude in the first round. Also, it wasn't good value if you were fixated on all the projections leading up to the draft; very few people had Baldwin in the first round.

Also, the pairing of Baldwin with true No. 1 Dwayne Bowe is a bit curious. Both are bigger, more physical WRs who don't have supreme quickness.

That being said, there is a lot to get excited about with this pick. Turn on Baldwin's sophomore tape, and you will see a legitimate stud prospect. He is ridiculously fast for checking in at around 6'5" 230. He has tremendous ball-tacking skills and snatches the ball out of the air; a pure hands-catcher.

He will be a threat in the red zone and is a guy Matt Cassel will rely on occasionally down the field. The biggest problem I have is that, in the Chiefs WCO, WRs are counted on to create a lot after catch, and I don't see Baldwin doing a lot of that at the next level.

A lot has been made of Baldwin's diva personality. He was most heavily criticized for dogging his coaching staff and QB to the media late last season. While I have no real idea what kind of a kid Baldwin is, and I do think he came off woefully immature in that whole ordeal, I have to say I absolutely agreed with him.

The unimaginative staff at Pitt had a hard time getting the most out of Baldwin's immense talent when the running game didn't dominate. That shouldn't be a problem in KC.

Round Two, Pick 55: Rodney Hudson, OG/C, Florida State

Hudson is a typical Pioli pick; smart, team captain, very athletic, versatile. He is just not my kind of guy, especially in the second round.

What Hudson has in technique he doesn't have in power or mean streak. He played at around 275 pounds his senior season, and maybe some of his issues won't be as pronounced when he settles into his NFL body. But I still think he was a reach here.

The Chiefs are old and thin inside, and I think the plan is for Hudson to be the eventual replacement for Casey Wiegmann at center. That would leave Hudson and 2010 third round draft pick Jon Asamoah to form the nucleus of the Chiefs' interior O line for years to come.

Round Three, Pick 70 (from Cleveland): Justin Houston, OLB, Georgia

Another interesting, somewhat out-of-character pick, but you can't question the value here.

Houston was the best pass rusher in the SEC last season, and tested off the charts at the Combine, but questions about his passion for the game, general character and a failed drug test in Indy (I believe it was for weed) caused him to slip into the third round.

Houston obviously has talent and should get playing time in a rotation along with Mike Vrabel and Tamba Hali, but I was still surprised by the pick. At only 6'2", Houston doesn't strike me as the typical long, rangy OLB that I am used to seeing from the Pats under Pioli.

Fortunately, Georgia switched to a 3-4 base front last year and showed multiple looks like the Chiefs do, so there wasn't as much projection involved in this pick, and the transition should be relatively smooth.

Round Three, Pick 86: Allen Bailey, DE, Miami

Perhaps, the most body-beautiful player in the draft from a remote island off the coast of Georgia, Bailey never quite lived up to his constant hype at Miami, but he was a good player.

Bailey looks like an ox, and although he weighs in at around 285 pounds, I think his best fit is as a strongside DE in a 4-3 or as an under tackle in a Tampa 2 system. I don't like his motor, technique or physicality for this scheme. I don't see him being anything more than a rotational guy to start with, but he has a lot of God-given talent.

Round Four, Pick 118: Jalil Brown, CB, Colorado

Starter Brandon Carr is a free agent, and the Chiefs don't have great depth at this position, so Brown makes sense here.

Brown is an aggressive corner without nowhere near the same physical skill set of his college teammate Jimmy Smith. Brown is one of the best-tackling corners in the draft, and should fit in well in sub-packages.

Round Five, Pick 135: Ricky Stanzi, QB, Iowa

Love him or leave him: Stanzi is terrific value here.

Stanzi doesn't wow with any of his physical skills, but he is a genuine, passionate gamer who led his team to some great comebacks over the course of his college career. He has solid accuracy and comes schooled in pro-style mechanics.

Stanzi's projection is as a backup for the first couple seasons with the chance to develop either into an eventual starter or a player with trade equity. He should be in the league for a very long time.
Round Five, Pick 140 (from Detroit as a result of tampering charges): Gabe Miller, OLB, Oregon State

A fine college player who wasn't invited to the Combine. Miller has very pronounced limitations but gives great effort. He played under Mike Riley who has a very good relationship with Pioli. Probably will be given a shot on return units.

Round Six, Pick 199: Jerrell Powe, DT, Ole Miss

Once talked about as a potential top ten pick, it looks like Pioli is just gambling here. Size and skill set are good enough for Powe to succeed.

Round Seven, Pick 223: Shane Bannon, RB, Yale

I don't watch much Ivy League ball, but Bannon was highly productive, and his name was tossed around as a super sleeper by some hardcore draftnicks. I am guessing he will be forced to try and make it on special teams.

All in all

Well, that was kind of weird. Pioli took a number of chances, especially early on, who don't necessarily seem to fit into the mold of players he has gone after in both the draft and free agency in the past.

There is no doubt he added some talented players here, I am just a bit worried he did so at the expense of his core philosophy. If these players fly right and make the most of their abilities while being good teammates and good citizens, this will have been a productive draft.

However, as Bill Parcells has said, you make your greatest mistakes when you deviate from what you believe in. Pioli is placing a lot of faith in his coaching staff and his veterans with this draft.

Overall Draft grade: B-

Texas Homer
05-20-2011, 03:26 AM
I'm not a Chiefs expert and I really don't know what their position needs were going into the draft, but just by looking at the players that they drafted, then I'd give them them a solid (A) grade.

I like their picks...Also a big Jamaal Charles and Derrick Johnson fan too.

roscoesdad27
05-20-2011, 06:19 AM
Am I the only person who thinks the chiefs traded back with Phil Taylor in mind? He woulda made the d.l. all first rounders and its more the polian way. They traded back but kept strategically in front of the jets and steelers, the only other teams looking for n.t.. Then the Browns, who run a 4-3, took Taylor.....the chiefs take Powe round 6.

Solid draft thou...B+

no bare feet
05-20-2011, 07:13 AM
The Chiefs don't run anything near a WCO.

Iamcanadian
05-20-2011, 09:00 AM
I like their draft quite a bit. I love the tape on Baldwin but I guess we won't know about his character for a couple of seasons. Talent wise, I think he should have been higher on team boards just like Jimmy Smith deserved to be but character issues took both of them further down draft boards. No way to know how either pick will turnout.
Hudson I really love a lot. His coach wanted him light but he built up to 300lbs by the time of the draft with no loss in quickness. He is a master technician with a really solid base and I think he will start almost immediately and be a star for a decade at OC.
I'm not a Justin Houston fan, he disappears when the play isn't on his side and takes a lot of plays off which is why he dropped to round 3. However, with young kids you never know if the light will go on and if it ever does, he has the athletic ability to be a star.
Bailey was a first class round 3 pick and should be a solid starter at DE with a little grooming.
There are certainly question marks with their draft. On athletic ability alone, I give them an A but overall with the character issues I can only give them a B+.

MI_Buckeye
05-20-2011, 11:11 AM
The Chiefs don't run anything near a WCO.

The offense is changing. The new coordinator is Bill Muir. He ran the Bucs O during the 200s with Brad Johnson and Jeff Garcia.

no bare feet
05-20-2011, 11:13 AM
The offense is changing. The new coordinator is Bill Muir. He ran the Bucs O during the 200s with Brad Johnson and Jeff Garcia.

Todd Haley is the play caller, he will be doing the playbook installations.

FlyingElvis
05-20-2011, 11:38 AM
Baldwin was especially surprising w/the trouble the Chiefs have had getting Bowe to pull his head out. My guess is that the diva/character concerns were a bit overblown, but it's still pretty odd.

onejayhawk
05-22-2011, 12:08 AM
The Chiefs don't run anything near a WCO.

Weis didnt. This year remains to be seen.

Am I the only person who thinks the Chiefs traded back with Phil Taylor in mind? He woulda made the d.l. all first rounders and its more the polian way. They traded back but kept strategically in front of the jets and steelers, the only other teams looking for n.t.. Then the Browns, who run a 4-3, took Taylor.....the chiefs take Powe round 6.

Solid draft thou...B+

If you look at the price Cleveland paid, no way.

Cleveland traded with KC, because they expected KC to take Phil Taylor. The Chiefs would not do the deal until the price was more in line with the #15 pick. To balance the deal, the Cleveland would normally get back the first 3rd and the 6th. Put it this way, the Chiefs got Houston and Powe as throw-ins.

That only makes sense if both teams are after the same player, and both teams know it.

Baldwin was especially surprising w/the trouble the Chiefs have had getting Bowe to pull his head out. My guess is that the diva/character concerns were a bit overblown, but it's still pretty odd.

I think is a case of Haley saying "I can deal with him" to Pioli. Both Haley and Pioli have said many times that you can handle some challanging players, as long as you have a lot more team players around them. In Baldwin's defense, a lot of people believe he had a point. There are few things more frustrating than be able to handle more responsibility, and being denied the chance for no good reason. As a favorite author put it, "Nothing inspires childish behavior so much as being treated like a child." His HS coach raved about his work ethic.

In general, this draft has some oddities, but it is not as far from the standard Pioli draft as you might think. I give you Baldwin, with the reservationstated above. Hudson would look normal in last year's squeeky clean draft. Houston,in spite of the marijuana issue, was a team captain, great value at the slot, and filled a need. Some Chiefs fans once agitated to take himat #21. No one ever complained about Allen Bailey off the field. Brown and Stanzi have a blue color reputation. Miller and Powe are more team captains. It is just more noticable when the first round pick is one of the ones with a red flag, and one of the others is for drug use.

On Baldwin, I can understand why Haley pants after this guy. Obviously, he has run a two big WR system before, with Q and Fitz. Bowe has hands issues, and that is Baldwin's best feature, even ahead of the size/speed factor.

On Gabe Miller. I dont get why people consider him limited. His Combine numbers are early second day quality. What he was is new to defense. Not DE, but to that side of the ball. He was a TE for 2 years. He also rehabbed major injuries on both legs, and still was mentioned to All Conference lists. It is a big conversion, but he should be a top drawer OLB, with a big wad of pass rush.

J

PossibleCabbage
05-22-2011, 12:56 AM
Honestly, the Chiefs draft is one of my favorite drafts. The thing you miss about the Baldwin pick is that Haley loves constructively breaking-down WRs with attitude issues (c.f. Keyshawn Johnson, Marty Booker, Terrell Owens, Terry Glenn, all of those guys produced under Haley, and Haley is getting to Baldwin when's young and hasn't become a complete PITA yet).

Both Bailey and Houston are fantastic values where they were taken. Bailey simply doesn't play if he doesn't produce since KC has an embarrassment of riches at DE and will have one of the better DL rotations of 3-4 teams. Houston grades out as probably the second best pass-rusher of the 3-4 OLB prospects in the draft, and they got him 68 picks after the #1 guy.

The Chiefs two biggest needs were likely OC and NT, and Hudson will need time but Wiegmann will hold up in time for Hudson to come into an NFL body, and Powe was great value where he was taken. With the 5-techs that are playing next to him, he doesn't have to be B.J. Raji in terms of wreaking havoc in the middle, he just has to be average.

I think Miller will prove to be a steal where he was taken him, not an immediate contributor, but a very low risk OLB prospect.

I would personally give this either a B+ or an A-. I'm a big fan of this draft.

Big Bird
05-22-2011, 01:36 AM
Am I the only person who thinks the chiefs traded back with Phil Taylor in mind? He woulda made the d.l. all first rounders and its more the polian way. They traded back but kept strategically in front of the jets and steelers, the only other teams looking for n.t.. Then the Browns, who run a 4-3, took Taylor.....the chiefs take Powe round 6.

No.

If the Chiefs wanted Phil Taylor, they would have taken him and not swapped picks with Cleveland. If you think the team trading down doesn't know who the other team is going to select, you're out of your mind.

And, I know your argument is going to be "Well, what if Team A just tricks them by saying they are taking Player A, and then end up taking Player B!" Let's remember, the NFL is a business and run by businessmen. You f them over once, it will be the last time you'll be making a deal with them. Teams aren't going to completely kill any chance to make a future deal with a team by lying to them about who they are trading up to take.

If the Chiefs wanted Taylor, they would have picked him. All and all, them trading down had nothing to do with Phil Taylor. A more potentially more reasonable scenario is that Baldwin was the top player left on their board, but they felt like they could move down, and still snag him while picking up more picks and in the process, get better value on Baldwin.

nepg
05-22-2011, 02:18 AM
Honestly, the Chiefs draft is one of my favorite drafts. The thing you miss about the Baldwin pick is that Haley loves constructively breaking-down WRs with attitude issues (c.f. Keyshawn Johnson, Marty Booker, Terrell Owens, Terry Glenn, all of those guys produced under Haley, and Haley is getting to Baldwin when's young and hasn't become a complete PITA yet).

Both Bailey and Houston are fantastic values where they were taken. Bailey simply doesn't play if he doesn't produce since KC has an embarrassment of riches at DE and will have one of the better DL rotations of 3-4 teams. Houston grades out as probably the second best pass-rusher of the 3-4 OLB prospects in the draft, and they got him 68 picks after the #1 guy.

The Chiefs two biggest needs were likely OC and NT, and Hudson will need time but Wiegmann will hold up in time for Hudson to come into an NFL body, and Powe was great value where he was taken. With the 5-techs that are playing next to him, he doesn't have to be B.J. Raji in terms of wreaking havoc in the middle, he just has to be average.

I think Miller will prove to be a steal where he was taken him, not an immediate contributor, but a very low risk OLB prospect.

I would personally give this either a B+ or an A-. I'm a big fan of this draft.
Their two biggest needs were WR and C. WR wasn't considered in mocks and such because Pioli has not shown much interest in drafting WRs in the first and the guys he's drafted in the 2nd have been...errrmmm....different.

King Carls 5 Year Plan
05-22-2011, 12:22 PM
The offense is changing. The new coordinator is Bill Muir. He ran the Bucs O during the 200s with Brad Johnson and Jeff Garcia.

very good write up. i enjoyed reading it.

you are right about Muir taking over at OC, but he is OC in name only. Haley will be play caller and the both of them will work together developing the offensive game plan each week. Muir had the exact same job in Tampa under Gruden. it was Gruden that ran a WCO, not Muir.

Haley is a WR guru. he enjoys turning WR with talent and no direction into good WRs. he will also take WRs with talent and good motors and make them elite (Q & Fitz). Bowe really started to buy into what Haley was selling and you could see it on the field. i just wish that Haley had been here from day 1 for Bowe. He will have that opportunity with Baldwin. the greatest part of this is Bowe and Baldwin will be able to talk about what Haley is doing as he is doing it. Baldwin will have a ton of questions about why Haley is being so hard on him and Bowe will be the perfect person to ask. with the proper tutelage from Bowe, coaching from Haley and the physical talent of Baldwin could be a monster combo. hopefully, it's a faster process for Baldwin than it was for Bowe for the light switch to come on.

Hudson was a great pick. he fits the profile of what Pioli looks for to a T. he is smart, his technique is sound and he has room to become even better. yes, he isn't the biggest guy, but neither is Weigmann. our C doesn't have to be the biggest guy. in pass protection, he will have help from 1 G with larger NTs and in run blocking, our C pulls/ZB a lot. it's more important that he is athletic and quick.

Justin Houston was incredible value at #70. he has 1st round talent and slipped because of a failed drug test at the combine. 6'3" 270, ran a 4.68x40, 30 reps at the bench, 6.95 3 cone, 125 broad jump and a 36.5" vertical jump. in other words he owned it, especially for his size. it is a serious question whether he is able to put down the joint, but i'm guessing Pioli and Haley have talked with him about it and feel that his talent and value at #70 are well worth the risk. maybe he'll use the millions of dollars that went up in smoke (pun intended) as motivation to show everyone he was worth a 2st round pick.

Allen Bailey is an absolute physical specimen. he looks like a chiseled Spartan from the movie 300. at 285, he can fit into a couple of spots for the Chiefs. he can be in the rotation at 5 tech with Dorsey, TJax, and Smith (i understand he is a FA). we also played a lot of nickle in passing situations and Bailey would fit in well inside next to Dorsey or even play the strong side DE with Hali at weak side DE. his versatility on the defensive line is what makes him a + player.

Jalil Brown is a big CB that knows how to tackle. with Jimmy Smith on the other side of the field, he was tested a lot. depth at CB has been a weakness for the Chiefs. plus, Carr is soon to be a FA.

Ricky Stanzi was a pick that a lot of us saw from a mile away. we knew Pioli liked drafting QBs in the later rounds. it was only a matter if Stanzi would last until Pioli felt the value was high enough. Ricky was one of the more accurate QBs in this draft. he played in a pro style of offense and is going to be able to hold a clipboard and learn the game from the sideline. in a pinch with an injury, he maybe asked to start an occasional game. he is an immediate upgrade over Brodie Croyle and is a much better fit into Haley's offense than Croyle.

this pick, i was left scratching my head. he seems athletic and has versatility on his side, but i don't quite know where he fits and if he had any value at #140 overall. i've hear he is an OLB/ILB/DE prospect. my guess is that if he can develop into a solid ILB, that would be his best fit on this team.

Jerrell Powe is a fantastic fit for this team. he addressed a need for a developmental NT and he has all the capability of turning into a steal this late. he is a massive man at 6'2" 335. he has said to have been as high as 380 at some point during his Ole Miss career. as with most NT projects, his weight and conditioning will be an issue, but as a 2 down player, he fits the bill perfectly. he demands a double team and has the strength the push the pocket. Crennel is very good at picking up NT projects and turning them into quality NTs in this league. Powe is already 24 and has had an issue with dyslexia. i don't see that being to big of an issue for a NT.

Bannon is a FB that can switch to a H back position when needed. he is a supreme blocker at the point of attack and has good hands in the passing game. that's been what Haley has asked his FBs to do, block when asked to and then catch the ball on occasion. i see Bannon helping in the # TE sets that the Chiefs ran a lot with success last year. most of Jamaal's yards came in a single back set, but TJ could use a good FB. Bannon is developmental, but should get the opportunity to win the job during training camp (if we have one).

overall, all homerism aside, i like what the Chiefs did. they drafted gifted athletes at positions they had value and addressed an area of need on the team. i do believe the questionable character issues on some of the players drafted are highly overblown. everyone wants to make a big deal about Baldwins character concerns and i don't see it. he called out his QB and then stated he wished he had be asked to run more intermediate routes. was what he said immature? absolutely. was it wrong to call out his QB? probably. was he incorrect in any of his analysis? i don't think so. his QB did suck and he was asked to run to many deep routes. Pitt didn't use Baldwin's strengths. plus, lets not forget that this was all via text message after a reporter text him a question about if he was forgoing his senior year at Pitt minutes after HC Wannstedt was fired. maybe an emotional time like that isn't the best time for a young man to be talking to the media. he'll learn from that mistake and move forward. Justin Houston does have a legit character concern. everyone knows you get tested for drugs and PEDs at the combine. it is alarming that he 1) couldn't stop smoking long enough to not drop a dirty or 2) thought he was smart enough to out think the drug test and fail. every other player drafted i think is a high character guy and adds a ton of potential to this draft class. based upon Pioli's history, i think this draft class will end up being very good.

i refuse to give a letter grade to a draft class that is less than 3 years old. it's pointless. good players get hurt, late round picks thrive and early picks may fail. to many unknowns to give a team a low or high grade this early. i do, however, love this drafts potential to push the Chiefs over the top on offense, defense and special teams.

onejayhawk
05-22-2011, 03:32 PM
No.

If the Chiefs wanted Phil Taylor, they would have taken him and not swapped picks with Cleveland. If you think the team trading down doesn't know who the other team is going to select, you're out of your mind.

And, I know your argument is going to be "Well, what if Team A just tricks them by saying they are taking Player A, and then end up taking Player B!" Let's remember, the NFL is a business and run by businessmen. You f them over once, it will be the last time you'll be making a deal with them. Teams aren't going to completely kill any chance to make a future deal with a team by lying to them about who they are trading up to take.

If the Chiefs wanted Taylor, they would have picked him. All and all, them trading down had nothing to do with Phil Taylor. A more potentially more reasonable scenario is that Baldwin was the top player left on their board, but they felt like they could move down, and still snag him while picking up more picks and in the process, get better value on Baldwin.

This is true unless the Browns pays a big enough premium to make it worth while. Cleveland did. According to the chart, they should have gotten the Chiefs top 3rd, and something else, back. The inference is that both teams were targeting Taylor with that pick.

One other thing seems clear. In the Chiefs' estimation, there is one and only one impact NT in the draft. When you look at their next three picks, the hands are tied. C is a need pick, while Houston and Bailey are huge values. By round 4, the position is pretty well picked over. Powe would have been a reach in round 4 or 5, but perfect in round 6.

J

RaiderNation
05-22-2011, 03:41 PM
I really liked the Chiefs draft overall. Stanzi will be their future starting QB in maybe 3-4 years, Baldwin is a risky pick but if he pans out he will be a very good player, Hudson is a starting caliber Center, Houston and Bailey are steals in the 3rd, and Jalil Brown is an underrated pick who adds good depth. Of course I am hoping I am wrong about this draft since I am a Raiders fan, but as a NFL draft fan I think this is one of the better drafts this year

MI_Buckeye
05-23-2011, 01:38 AM
[QUOTE=King Carls 5 Year Plan;2604252] i do believe the questionable character issues on some of the players drafted are highly overblown. everyone wants to make a big deal about Baldwins character concerns and i don't see it. he called out his QB and then stated he wished he had be asked to run more intermediate routes. was what he said immature? absolutely. was it wrong to call out his QB? probably. was he incorrect in any of his analysis? i don't think so. his QB did suck and he was asked to run to many deep routes. Pitt didn't use Baldwin's strengths. plus, lets not forget that this was all via text message after a reporter text him a question about if he was forgoing his senior year at Pitt minutes after HC Wannstedt was fired. maybe an emotional time like that isn't the best time for a young man to be talking to the media. he'll learn from that mistake and move forward.[QUOTE]

I understand your perspective on Baldwin, and a lot of people share it. He is a really talented kid whose talents weren't being utilized properly.

That being said, I think it does show at least some naievete or immaturity to say the things he did with the tone he did when you know it is going on to be printed. Some teams probably took him off their boards completely, because they have zero tolerance for anybody that would publicly criticize their coaches and teammates. You combine that with perceived lack of effort and bad body language on the field and you get the diva questions.

However, I do believe that if anybody has thoroughly vetted Baldwin's character, it is Pioli. The guy does as much homework on each player anybody, and has yet to make a meaningful faux pas on character. It was a marriage of player and team that I never expected, and it will be interesting to see if it works out.

King Carls 5 Year Plan
05-23-2011, 10:45 AM
However, I do believe that if anybody has thoroughly vetted Baldwin's character, it is Pioli. The guy does as much homework on each player anybody, and has yet to make a meaningful faux pas on character. It was a marriage of player and team that I never expected, and it will be interesting to see if it works out.

a truer statement has never been made. Pioli does as much exhausted research as any other GM.

i understand that teams may have taken Baldwin off their boards completely, but i think doing so without researching why shows that some teams will continue wallow in futility. i can easily see why Houston would be off many boards with a positive drug test. i wouldn't question that one bit. if i owned a business, a positive drug test during the pre-employment period would be grounds for an instant dissolution of any employment status. IMO, Baldwin made a mistake, but it was during an emotional time and you could see that he had been stewing over the issues all season long. it finally came to a head and he reacted poorly, like most young men would. also, speaking via text message isn't the best way for an "interview" or any other possible published quotes. twitter, facebook, text message and all other forms of social media are terrible platforms for athletes, or anyone else, to be quoted. there is no context to the statement and most times the athlete should have just kept his/her mouth closed and not commented until he/she has had time to think through the post. that defeats the whole point of social media and the instant gratification/disappointment of connecting with the world. sorry, off on a tangent. the timing for Baldwin was bad. that doesn't make him a bad kid. i really hope he uses this as motivation to keep a chip on his shoulder and make all 25 teams that passed on him pay.

onejayhawk
05-23-2011, 06:30 PM
i do believe the questionable character issues on some of the players drafted are highly overblown. everyone wants to make a big deal about Baldwins character concerns and i don't see it. he called out his QB and then stated he wished he had be asked to run more intermediate routes. was what he said immature? absolutely. was it wrong to call out his QB? probably. was he incorrect in any of his analysis? i don't think so. his QB did suck and he was asked to run to many deep routes. Pitt didn't use Baldwin's strengths. plus, lets not forget that this was all via text message after a reporter text him a question about if he was forgoing his senior year at Pitt minutes after HC Wannstedt was fired. maybe an emotional time like that isn't the best time for a young man to be talking to the media. he'll learn from that mistake and move forward.

I understand your perspective on Baldwin, and a lot of people share it. He is a really talented kid whose talents weren't being utilized properly.

That being said, I think it does show at least some naievete or immaturity to say the things he did with the tone he did when you know it is going on to be printed. Some teams probably took him off their boards completely, because they have zero tolerance for anybody that would publicly criticize their coaches and teammates. You combine that with perceived lack of effort and bad body language on the field and you get the diva questions.

However, I do believe that if anybody has thoroughly vetted Baldwin's character, it is Pioli. The guy does as much homework on each player anybody, and has yet to make a meaningful faux pas on character. It was a marriage of player and team that I never expected, and it will be interesting to see if it works out.

If you look at the situation, naiveté is a good word. This comes across as someone saying things he does not expect to be quoted. Clearly, he should have, but this is hardly a unique thing in his generation. Texting is treated as disposable. Whether it was fully vetted, or not, the Chiefs staff, meaning Haley, think they can handle him. An article on the subject.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d81fee0ff/article/in-taking-baldwin-chiefs-putting-trust-in-haleys-track-record

As has been noted, the Houston situation is much more serious. But, in his case, cutting him is relatively cheap. Take that away, and he is right out of the Chiefs' draft book: hard working, team captain, untapped potential. The bonus is that he played in a similar scheme at Georgia.

The pick I dont get people knocking is Allen Bailey. The most respected name in the business, Rick Gosselin, rated him #12 among DEs, including future LBs, eg Moch and Acho, #58 overall. By that standard he should have gone about our round 2 pick. We took him 28 picks later, but people are not on board with it. All I will say is bad college coaching, like Baldwin.

J

FUNBUNCHER
05-23-2011, 07:47 PM
The Chiefs IMO had the best draft, or damn near close to it, of any team in the NFL.

In two years, Hudson/Houston/Baldwin/Brown should all be starters, Bailey a key rotational guy and Gabe Miller a top reserve at OLB.

I see big things for the Chiefs over the next few seasons, and if they end up with a 3rd Lombardi trophy in the next five years, this draft was one of the set pieces for their franchise.

bored of education
05-23-2011, 08:11 PM
The Chiefs IMO had the best draft, or damn near close to it, of any team in the NFL.

In two years, Hudson/Houston/Baldwin/Brown should all be starters, Bailey a key rotational guy and Gabe Miller a top reserve at OLB.

I see big things for the Chiefs over the next few seasons, and if they end up with a 3rd Lombardi trophy in the next five years, this draft was one of the set pieces for their franchise.


a 3rd Lombardi?

FUNBUNCHER
05-23-2011, 08:47 PM
How many SB wins does the Chief franchise have????

I thought they'd won two previously. Whoops.

Anyway, just saying I think the Chiefs are putting together a roster capable of competing with the elite teams in the AFC.

onejayhawk
05-24-2011, 06:29 AM
Lets not get carried away. This was a solid draft, and the Chiefs have two instant starters, and at least 5 rookie contributors, but it is a long way to the Super Bowl.

J

FUNBUNCHER
05-24-2011, 07:20 AM
Lets not get carried away. This was a solid draft, and the Chiefs have two instant starters, and at least 5 rookie contributors, but it is a long way to the Super Bowl.

J

Is it??

I don't know what KC's RB depth is, but they're solid at QB with playmakers at the skill positions and a solid Oline.

Their D is underrated and they may have just added an impact pass rusher in Justin Houston.

Making it to the SB out of the AFC isn't the same proposition as it is out of the NFC, but at least the Chiefs nearly have all the pieces in place to compete with the elite teams in the conference.

nepg
05-24-2011, 08:41 AM
The big thing with the Chiefs is they had a ton of issues towards the end of the year with depth on the defensive side. They made huge strides to address that issue with this draft.

Offensively, they were exploited by defenses because they lacked another WR on the outside and they also lacked a slot receiver. Teams won't be able to shut that offense down very easily now and will have to respect the passing game.

onejayhawk
05-24-2011, 08:14 PM
Is it??

I don't know what KC's RB depth is, but they're solid at QB with playmakers at the skill positions and a solid Oline.

Their D is underrated and they may have just added an impact pass rusher in Justin Houston.

Making it to the SB out of the AFC isn't the same proposition as it is out of the NFC, but at least the Chiefs nearly have all the pieces in place to compete with the elite teams in the conference.

Definitely. The Chiefs grade out as a .500 team last season. That is two levels above where they were when Pioli/Haley took over. However, that means there is just as far to go, before they are a serious contender.

That being said, this is the point where the youth of the team takes over. Half the starters were drafted/signed from college since 2008. significant improvement is possible.

Also the AFC is tougher than the NFC
The big thing with the Chiefs is they had a ton of issues towards the end of the year with depth on the defensive side. They made huge strides to address that issue with this draft.

Offensively, they were exploited by defenses because they lacked another WR on the outside and they also lacked a slot receiver. Teams won't be able to shut that offense down very easily now and will have to respect the passing game.

This is true. Baldwin and Hudson were drafted to start from day 1, but their units are solid behind them. Of the remaining 7 picks, 5 are for defense, and 4 are front 7. All 5 will likely make the roster, though I expect Brown and Miller will be mostly ST for a year. I do not expect Vrable to return. Houston is the third day 1 starter.

J

MucBuc
05-25-2011, 08:09 AM
The offense is changing. The new coordinator is Bill Muir. He ran the Bucs O during the 200s with Brad Johnson and Jeff Garcia.

Gruden was the only one running the O while he was the Buc's HC. Muir was our O-Line coach then. Though he was also given the title of "Assistant HC", he never called any plays.

T-RICH49
05-26-2011, 08:52 PM
while I was surprised Pioli went with Baldwin due to so called character ?'s I absolutely loved the pick.Dwayne Bowe had IIRC 0 catches the last 2 games and why was that?because he was doubled teamed.Baldwin should help D-Bowe immensly by taking the double teams away

Rodney Hudson was another great pick.can play anywhere on the interior o-line should be a starter from day 1

Justin Houston was outside of Baldwin my fav pick.made some mistakes but I think having a Tamba Hali and Romeo Crennel will help him mature on and off the field

Allen Bailey was a pick that at the time I was not sure of at the time but the more I think about it the more I like it.depth at DL is never a bad thing

Jalil Brown as most have said Carr is a FA and CB is a posistion needing depth so very solid pick IMO

Ricky Stanzi have to be honest was expecting us to take him in the 4th RD so tremendous value here.And it means goodbye Brokie Croyle

Gabe Miller.....yeah still don't like that pick

Jerrell Powe a guy I was clamoring for in the 3rd falls to us in the 6th.tremendous value pick again

Shane Bannon don't know much about him so no real comment on this pick


Overall: some boom or bust types but if we hit then look out folks

onejayhawk
07-14-2011, 08:59 PM
Reading Scott's review of the Chiefs draft, makes me wish I could have seen one lst year.

I find myself in agreement down the line. I am not a fan of the Baldwin pick, but I understand it, and so does he. On the other side, after New England's 3rd round (Mallett is the steal of the draft), the Chiefs had the best single round of any team, when they got Houston and Bailey in the 3rd. Scott seems in agreement. He "gets" Gabe Miller and recognizes Stanzi as a steal. Baldwin, Hudson and Houston will start almost immediately. Several rates have so mentioned. However, Bailey, Powe, Brown, and Miller all have starting potential, which he recognizes.

Two caveats. If anything he understates the upside of this draft. Baldwin is a potential HoF talent, racking a string of double digit TD seasons. Houston, Miller, and Powe could each start for a decade, and Pro Bowls are possible. Miller was way under the radar, but his workout numbers say Monster in Training. Bailey was not under the radar, but he also never had a solid role to play, and, frankly, never was well coached. There are some character issues, which last year lacked, but the upside is way up.

The other caveat is that the risk factor is also way up. Baldwin has a diva reputation. Houston failed a drug teast. Powe has weight issues typical of his size (compare, for example, Phil Taylor).

Still, a fine write up.

J

Splat
07-15-2011, 09:20 AM
I want to have Scott Pioli's baby...

Roddoliver
07-15-2011, 10:55 AM
I like their draft. A big WR to help Cassel and Bowe, OL help to eventually replace Waters or Wiegmann and 3-4 OLB with 17.5 sacks in his final 2 seasons in the SEC.

LonghornsLegend
07-15-2011, 02:37 PM
Baldwin is a potential HoF talent


Lollzz. Good times.

PossibleCabbage
07-15-2011, 05:01 PM
Lollzz. Good times.

Well, guys who were undrafted in 12 round drafts have made it to the hall of fame. So *anybody* who was actually drafted is a potential hall of fame talent.

onejayhawk
07-15-2011, 05:18 PM
I like their draft. A big WR to help Cassel and Bowe, OL help to eventually replace Waters or Wiegmann and 3-4 OLB with 17.5 sacks in his final 2 seasons in the SEC.

17.5 sacks playing a position set up very similar to what he will playing in the NFL.
Baldwin is a potential HoF talent
Lollzz. Good times.

Why laugh? It was not a joke. In the entire draft, there are not more than 3-4 players more physically suited to a position than Baldwin to WR. That includes Jones and Green. Baldwin's issues are concerning desire, dedication and coachability. In other words he has everything you cannot coach. The bust risk is real, even significant, but the upside is as good as it gets.

J

JHL6719
07-15-2011, 05:28 PM
In other words he has everything you cannot coach.

[/QUOTE]




Except for anything resembling run-after-the-catch-ability, and the ability to create seperation on anything other than a streak where busted coverage took place.


I think he's more Patrick Turner than Calvin Johnson.

onejayhawk
07-18-2011, 10:16 PM
In other words he has everything you cannot coach.

Except for anything resembling run-after-the-catch-ability, and the ability to create seperation on anything other than a streak where busted coverage took place.

I think he's more Patrick Turner than Calvin Johnson.

Speaking of coachable things, those are a couple of good ones.

Calvin Johnson would not be my choice either. No obvious comparisons jump to mind. He should be a great jump ball receiver though. He will bring them down like Dwight Howard with a rebound.

J