PDA

View Full Version : Topic of Interest: How Long Will It Take to Sign Cam Newton?


bucfan12
05-20-2011, 09:28 AM
Once the lockout ends, it seems like there won't be a rookie cap this year from all indications and that 2011 FA will be the same as 2010.

My question for you is , since we all know the type of person Cam Newton is, how difficult will it be for the Panthers to sign the Number 1 overall pick? Could it be as tough as the Raiders signing Russell? To me, he's going to want more than Bradford, even though most scouts had Newton as the number 2 and 3 QB and not even a top 10 overall player.

What are your thoughts?

Cudders
05-20-2011, 09:38 AM
Once the lockout ends, it seems like there won't be a rookie cap this year from all indications and that 2011 FA will be the same as 2010.

My question for you is , since we all know the type of person Cam Newton is, how difficult will it be for the Panthers to sign the Number 1 overall pick? Could it be as tough as the Raiders signing Russell? To me, he's going to want more than Bradford, even though most scouts had Newton as the number 2 and 3 QB and not even a top 10 overall player.

What are your thoughts?

Kind of a bold assumption, no?

As for the topic, I wouldn't be surprised if he holds out, especially if the lockout drags on into the late summer months before both sides agree to operate in 2011 under 2010 rules. Most high first-round picks do. It's par for the course now and the reason I don't mind the owners pursuing a rookie cap. But the Panthers should have been prepared to hand over a similar contract to Bradford's as soon as they turned their pick in. And Carolina won't be able to make the argument that he doesn't deserve that kind of contract. They drafted him first overall. Obviously, they valued him as the best quarterback prospect. Under that scenario, they're going to have to pay him like one.

jrdrylie
05-20-2011, 09:43 AM
I don't think a deal gets signed without a rookie salary cap, so I think once the new CBA is signed, it takes about 10 minutes for him to sign. I'm more interested in how long it takes him to declare bankruptcy after he retires. Over/Under six months.

Iamcanadian
05-20-2011, 10:10 AM
I don't think a deal gets signed without a rookie salary cap, so I think once the new CBA is signed, it takes about 10 minutes for him to sign. I'm more interested in how long it takes him to declare bankruptcy after he retires. Over/Under six months.

It is my understanding that the old rules will apply to this year's rookie signing. The rookie salary cap won't be put in place till the next draft.
There could be a lot of holdouts this year as teams try tough negotiations based on next year's rookie salary cap.

countryboi
05-20-2011, 10:17 AM
he is the first pick in the draft and will get paid as such... I think your going to be very disappointed if your looking for controversy here.

Scott Wright
05-20-2011, 12:11 PM
Let's just say Newton should get all he can out of this first contract...

the natural
05-20-2011, 01:14 PM
Newton is totally into the image thing. He is even doing his workouts at the IMG center. IMG is basically a modelling agency. With an army of advisors and hangers on that would put Michael Crabtree's entourage to shame. It will probably take Team Newton a few months just to get some sort of concensus on the bandwagon as to what he wants. Wouldn't want to be the people having to hammer it out, I think the guy is wierd in a clinically ill way.

PossibleCabbage
05-20-2011, 02:01 PM
Actually, from what I'm reading the courts are extremely unlikely to end the lockout, so the only people who will end the lockout are the NFL owners. The NFL owners will not voluntarily end the lockout without a new collective bargaining agreement (as doing so opens them up to a myriad of antitrust lawsuits), and they are unlikely to approve a new collective bargaining agreement without a rookie wage scale.

So I very much disagree with "it seems like there won't be a rookie cap this year from all indications and that 2011 FA will be the same as 2010". You appear to be reading the NFL labor-armageddon news that's about a month old, when it looked like the courts would life the lockout (which would force the NFL to adopt work rules, whichever ones they choose). Right now, considering the language the 8th circuit used in their decision to grant the recent stay, it's extremely unlikely that the 8th Circuit will not overturn Judge Nelson's order to lift the lockout, which would mean the lockout would continue until either the NFL lifts it voluntarily or the entire Brady case is tried (which will likely take years).

JoeJoeBrown
05-20-2011, 02:04 PM
Newton is totally into the image thing. He is even doing his workouts at the IMG center. IMG is basically a modelling agency. With an army of advisors and hangers on that would put Michael Crabtree's entourage to shame. It will probably take Team Newton a few months just to get some sort of concensus on the bandwagon as to what he wants. Wouldn't want to be the people having to hammer it out, I think the guy is wierd in a clinically ill way.

You are a troll. I have no idea why you are still allowed on this site.

the natural
05-20-2011, 02:10 PM
The Troll of Truth, JoeJoe. The guy is completely ****ing crazy, he IS working out at the IMG center in Florida, they DO specialize in image representation (hence the name), and Chemically Cultured Cameron DOES have a large entourage, including two seperate sports agents, his father and brother, IMG reps, and several former NFL quarterbacks who are either "mentoring" or directly coaching him. Four of them at last count. Along with that little worm Whitfield.

FUNBUNCHER
05-20-2011, 05:31 PM
Cam is represented by IMG for marketing, and he'd be an idiot not to take advantage of their vast client resources to prepare for the upcoming NFL season.

Despite popular belief, Newton isn't in Florida to tour the strip clubs. He isn't sitting on his butt getting out of shape practicing his autograph signature.

He's working with Chris Weinke, former Panther and aspiring NFL coach, and Ken Dorsey, both of whom have intimate knowledge of Chudzinski's offensive concepts to assimilate Carolina's playbook before the lockout ends.

Say what you want about Cam, but his work ethic and desire to do be great are proving out so far.

Weinke has already called Newton a 'perfectionist' in their workout sessions, and according to him Cam is putting in 12 hour work days at IMG's training facilities in Bradenton, FLA.

As for the difficulty in signing Cam, because of the lockout and Newton's desire to get on the field as as soon as possible, I think his negotiations are completed relatively quickly and he signs within a week of the lockout being lifited.

I'd say Newton is signed by Carolina in 48 hours once the lockout ends.

the natural
05-20-2011, 07:42 PM
So, he has five different guys helping to prepare him for the NFL. Moon, Favre, Weinke, Dorsey, and Whitfield. Even assuming there isn't input from Chudzinksi, Rivera, and Mike Shula, which there probably is. Sounds pretty chaotic to me. IMG is not in the business of training athletes, they are in the business of training models to represent products. His 12 hour days probably include about 8 hours of massage, steam treatment, and grooming. Before he gets to the style consultants, photographers, and business reps. Then he shoots up a few PEDs and watches cartoons until he falls asleep. The guy is Michael Jackson when MJ was 22 years old.

FUNBUNCHER
05-20-2011, 07:53 PM
So, he has five different guys helping to prepare him for the NFL. Moon, Favre, Weinke, Dorsey, and Whitfield. Even assuming there isn't input from Chudzinksi, Rivera, and Mike Shula, which there probably is. Sounds pretty chaotic to me. IMG is not in the business of training athletes, they are in the business of training models to represent products. His 12 hour days probably include about 8 hours of massage, steam treatment, and grooming. Before he gets to the style consultants, photographers, and business reps. Then he shoots up a few PEDs and watches cartoons until he falls asleep. The guy is Michael Jackson when MJ was 22 years old.



Per USA Today, 5/18

" For now, Newton has immersed himself in the Panthers playbook he was fortunate to secure when the lockout was briefly lifted. He is working hard with two expert translators, former NFL quarterbacks Chris Weinke— who's a former Panther — and Ken Dorsey at IMG's Madden Football Academy in Bradenton, Fla."


Read it and weep, Natch.
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/panthers/2011-05-18-newton-tutors_N.htm

the natural
05-20-2011, 08:14 PM
Yeah Fun, the overinflated dope will be huge. In Madden Football. :)

DancingMonkey
05-21-2011, 04:10 AM
Depends if he can dupe Mississippi State to get a bid in for his services to raise the price for the Panthers. (/joke) :P

Monomach
05-22-2011, 12:07 PM
He'll sign within a day of the lockout ending. You know every team is negotiating with every one of their draft picks right now.

PossibleCabbage
05-22-2011, 12:39 PM
He'll sign within a day of the lockout ending. You know every team is negotiating with every one of their draft picks right now.

I know that? You do know that "negotiating with a draft pick during the lockout" is considered a fireable offense by the NFL, right? Every team has a guy who's willing to lose his job in order to negotiate with a player, even though NFL teams don't usually negotiate with their draft picks in May?

Monomach
05-22-2011, 12:49 PM
I know that? You do know that "negotiating with a draft pick during the lockout" is considered a fireable offense by the NFL, right? Every team has a guy who's willing to lose his job in order to negotiate with a player, even though NFL teams don't usually negotiate with their draft picks in May?

Does being that naive hurt? Since when have rules stopped teams from doing anything? Do you believe that those complex $100,000,000 contracts that are signed one minute into free agency weren't negotiated beforehand, too?

...and no, it is not a fireable offense. All an owner has to do is say "nope, not firing him." The NFL can't do jack but fine them after that. The NFL can't fire anyone involved with any team. They work for a different company.

PossibleCabbage
05-22-2011, 01:09 PM
...and no, it is not a fireable offense. All an owner has to do is say "nope, not firing him." The NFL can't do jack but fine them after that. The NFL can't fire anyone involved with any team. They work for a different company.

No, the NFL has the ability to terminate any team employee for violating NFL rules that indicate it's a fireable offense. They could fire the head coach, general manager, defensive, and offensive coordinators for your favorite team if they catch wind of them violating the lockout rules. This is specific to the lockout, as violations of rules in other contexts carry much lesser penalties.

So while there's likely illegal contact going on between teams and players, there's nothing close to "negotiating for contracts" going on right now since that leaves a paper trail, and NFL teams don't do that until June or July anyway.

Roddoliver
05-22-2011, 01:36 PM
So, since when do you know Cam Newton personally?

Monomach
05-22-2011, 01:46 PM
No, the NFL has the ability to terminate any team employee for violating NFL rules that indicate it's a fireable offense. They could fire the head coach, general manager, defensive, and offensive coordinators for your favorite team if they catch wind of them violating the lockout rules. This is specific to the lockout, as violations of rules in other contexts carry much lesser penalties.Again...no. The NFL does not own any team and cannot force employment rules on any team.

Goodell: "Mr. Davis, Hue Jackson is fired."
Al Davis: "Suck my rotten old dick."
Goodell: "No, really, he's fired."
Al Davis: "His contract is with me. Not you. Me. See you in court."
Goodell: "Never mind. Sorry to bother you, sir."

So while there's likely illegal contact going on between teams and players, there's nothing close to "negotiating for contracts" going on right now since that leaves a paper trail, and NFL teams don't do that until June or July anyway.Yeah, no. Some teams have half of their picks signed by now in a usual year.

...and how about that contract that is rumored to already have been agreed to by Bulger?

Paper trail? lol? Really? How? You think they're going to print it out, sign it, and leave it sitting around?

GUARANTEED every GM has a disposable cell phone and a tiny notepad in his pocket with what they've agreed to labelled as "totally hypothetical contracts."

PossibleCabbage
05-22-2011, 02:54 PM
Again...no. The NFL does not own any team and cannot force employment rules on any team.

Goodell: "Mr. Davis, Hue Jackson is fired."
Al Davis: "Suck my rotten old dick."
Goodell: "No, really, he's fired."
Al Davis: "His contract is with me. Not you. Me. See you in court."
Goodell: "Never mind. Sorry to bother you, sir."

Goodell: Okay, the Oakland Raiders are hereby eliminated from the National Football league pursuant to the lockout rules voted approved by all 32 NFL teams, including you. Have fun in the UFL.

The league has the ability to enforce any rules approved by the owners to the extent that the owners have given them the power to enforce those rules. The owners voted unanimously to put into place lockout rules that lays out what constitutes a violation of the lockout rules and institutes the penalty of "termination" for violation of those rules. This was approved by every single NFL team.

Remember, it only takes 24 NFL owners to strip Al Davis of all control of the Oakland Raiders.

Yeah, no. Some teams have half of their picks signed by now in a usual year.

Last year at this time there were only a handful of 6th and 7th round picks signed by teams that are really aggressive about signing draft picks. Most teams don't even extend contract offers to their late round draft picks until mid-June. The Bears are just going to have to deal this time around.

...and how about that contract that is rumored to already have been agreed to by Bulger?

It was possible and legal to negotiate before the lockout was installed and during the brief lift of the lockout. A lot can get done then, so there's no reason to risk your job by negotiating with Bulger when it's against the rules.

Paper trail? lol? Really? How? You think they're going to print it out, sign it, and leave it sitting around?

When you go sniffing around here, you're not talking to team officials you're talking to agents. Agents are potentially in a lot of trouble if they're caught lying to the NFL, so they won't. You'll get at least one agent who will admit to illegal contact if it's really as widespread as you think. A recent NFL investigation has said "there's no illegal contact going on."

GUARANTEED every GM has a disposable cell phone and a tiny notepad in his pocket with what they've agreed to labelled as "totally hypothetical contracts."

Again, NFL teams don't usually start signing their draft picks until June. It's only a small handful of teams that do things early. It's entirely possible to get your entire draft class signed on time without negotiating with anybody before July.

There is especially no reason to negotiate with draft picks right now considering that when it is legal to sign draft picks, there is a better than 50% chance that there is a rookie wage scale in place.

Monomach
05-22-2011, 03:07 PM
Goodell: Okay, the Oakland Raiders are hereby eliminated from the National Football league pursuant to the lockout rules voted approved by all 32 NFL teams, including you. Have fun in the UFL.
Yeah, except it's illegal for all 32 teams to agree to rules. All it takes is one team to file suit. It's the reason Al Davis has won every suit he's filed against the NFL.

The league has the ability to enforce any rules approved by the owners to the extent that the owners have given them the power to enforce those rules. The owners voted unanimously to put into place lockout rules that lays out what constitutes a violation of the lockout rules and institutes the penalty of "termination" for violation of those rules. This was approved by every single NFL team.Cool. Except it's still an antitrust violation and quite illegal.



Last year at this time there were only a handful of 6th and 7th round picks signed by teams that are really aggressive about signing draft picks. Most teams don't even extend contract offers to their late round draft picks until mid-June. The Bears are just going to have to deal this time around.It's funny that you mention the Bears. Last year, they had every single one of their draft picks signed before May ended. Only one of them wasn't signed by this date. He was signed on the 28th. You went and mentioned one of the teams that proved you wrong. Herp derpppppp.


When you go sniffing around here, you're not talking to team officials you're talking to agents. Agents are potentially in a lot of trouble if they're caught lying to the NFL, so they won't. HAHAHA. Agents make more money by talking to teams, so they do. Same as the exclusive free agency period when it's against the rules to negotiate with other teams...and yet we have guys signing within 5 minutes of midnight every year.

You'll get at least one agent who will admit to illegal contact if it's really as widespread as you think. A recent NFL investigation has said "there's no illegal contact going on."No, you won't...because he'd never get another team to sign one of his clients. What kind of idiot is going to get himself blackballed out of a job by admitting that when there's zero way for the NFL to verify it? What became of that investigation into Albert Haynesworth signing at 12:01? Eh?



Again, NFL teams don't usually start signing their draft picks until June. It's only a small handful of teams that do things early. It's entirely possible to get your entire draft class signed on time without negotiating with anybody before July.Again, we covered this, and you proved yourself to be wrong.

Every single team in the NFL is negotiating with draft picks right now. Some teams are negotiating with free agents right now, but that's bound to be less widespread due to uncertainty about the new salary cap. Every team that has players running their own practices has at least one guy on the phone with an assistant coach or two every time they meet. If you don't believe this, you're just silly. You may as well believe in Santa Claus. No team is going to forgo contacting players when other teams are doing it. It would put them too far behind the 8 ball.

PossibleCabbage
05-22-2011, 03:19 PM
Yeah, except it's illegal for all 32 teams to agree to rules. All it takes is one team to file suit. It's the reason Al Davis has won every suit he's filed against the NFL.

Cool. Except it's still an antitrust violation and quite illegal.

It is impossible to say what is and is not an antitrust violation, a priori. If Al Davis wants to bring suit against the NFL for enforcing the rules that Al Davis himself approved, then good luck to him. You're not likely to win many cases trying to wiggle out of implied contracts (by voting for these rules you agree to follow these rules) alleging antitrust violations.

Remember that antitrust rules do not exist to protect business owners. They exist to protect consumers and labor. Al Davis is not protected by antitrust law.

Even if Mr. Davis wanted to contend that Hue Jackson's termination with cause by the NFL is an antitrust violation, that's going to be an expensive lawsuit. Considering how much the lockout is already hurting the bottom line, why would he even bother? Easier and cheaper to just tell your guys to follow the rules.


It's funny that you mention the Bears. Last year, they had every single one of their draft picks signed before May ended. Only one of them wasn't signed by this date. He was signed on the 28th. You went and mentioned one of the teams that proved you wrong. Herp derpppppp.

Learn some reading comprehension. First of all the Bears finished signing their class last year on June 10th, and it's not June yet. Second of all when I said "The Bears are just going to have to deal this time around." that was in acknowledgement that the Bears are a team that signs their draft picks early and that this time they are going to have to deal with the fact that things are different here. If you really want ot insinuate that most teams had half of their draft picks signed by this time last year, find me more than one at least? The Bears are not half of the NFL, the Bears are 1/32nd of the NFL.

HAHAHA. Agents make more money by talking to teams, so they do. Same as the exclusive free agency period when it's against the rules to negotiate with other teams...and yet we have guys signing within 5 minutes of midnight every year.

Please explain to me what a team would have to gain by negotiating a contract with a draft pick now, even though it's against the rules, when there stands to be a better than 50% chance that there will be a rookie wage scale once it is legal to actually legal to sign draft picks.

Remember that the penalties for tampering are much, much less than the penalties for illegal contact during a lockout. The league can and will express much more pressure in this case.


Again, we covered this, and you proved yourself to be wrong.

No. Admitting that the Bears signed all of their draft picks before mid-June last year (even though it was a small class) does in no way contradict a the statement that "only a handful of teams have signed any draft picks by now in a normal year."

Last year the Packers signed their first draft pick on June 23rd. The Steelers signed their first draft pick on June 15th. The Patriots signed their fourth draft pick of a twelve man class on June 8. So that's 4 out of 32 teams covered, and only one piece of evidence in support of your hypothesis. If you really want to claim that "most NFL teams have half their draft classes signed by now" you should be able to find at least eight teams who signed half their class by mid-May, right?

Complex
05-22-2011, 03:44 PM
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/05/19/league-finds-no-improper-lockout-contact/

Coaches are talking to players even though its against the rules and the league is pretty much ignoring it.

Monomach
05-22-2011, 04:03 PM
It is impossible to say what is and is not an antitrust violation, a priori. If Al Davis wants to bring suit against the NFL for enforcing the rules that Al Davis himself approved, then good luck to him. You're not likely to win many cases trying to wiggle out of implied contracts (by voting for these rules you agree to follow these rules) alleging antitrust violations.

Remember that antitrust rules do not exist to protect business owners. They exist to protect consumers and labor. Al Davis is not protected by antitrust law.Errr...wrong. Antitrust lawsuits protect businesses affected by the illegal activity every but as much as consumers and workers. That's how Netscape got 750 million out of Microsoft. The fact of the matter is that most of what makes the NFL is illegal. That's why the NFL's record in court is absolutely abysmal, ESPECIALLY against Al Davis.

Learn some reading comprehension. First of all the Bears finished signing their class last year on June 10th, and it's not June yet.Tell me how May 28 = June 10?

Major Wright- 5/28
Corey Wootton - 5/19
Josh Moore - 5/18
Dan LeFevour - 5/20
J'Marcus Webb - 5/16

Oh, look. Everyone signed in May. Just like I said.



Second of all when I said "The Bears are just going to have to deal this time around." that was in acknowledgement that the Bears are a team that signs their draft picks early and that this time they are going to have to deal with the fact that things are different here. If you really want ot insinuate that most teams had half of their draft picks signed by this time last year, find me more than one at least? The Bears are not half of the NFL, the Bears are 1/32nd of the NFL.Off the top of my head...Patriots. Last year they had two picks signed in May and two picks signed a week into June, which would strongly indicate negotiation in May. But no...I'm not googling every draft pick ever for you to get a date.


Please explain to me what a team would have to gain by negotiating a contract with a draft pick now, even though it's against the rules, when there stands to be a better than 50% chance that there will be a rookie wage scale once it is legal to actually legal to sign draft picks.There will not be a rookie wage scale until next year. No way, no how. It's too late for that.

Remember that the penalties for tampering are much, much less than the penalties for illegal contact during a lockout. The league can and will express much more pressure in this case.The league will ignore every report they have of it the same way they do with free agency. It's laughable to think that they haven't had a single report of it yet. Come on. Swept under the rug; business as usual.


Last year the Packers signed their first draft pick on June 23rd. The Steelers signed their first draft pick on June 15th. The Patriots signed their fourth draft pick of a twelve man class on June 8. So that's 4 out of 32 teams covered, and only one piece of evidence in support of your hypothesis. Except your dates are not correct. You were wrong about the Bears and wrong about the Pats (first signing of '10 class 5/18)...and that's just last year...and that's the first two teams I checked.

If you really want to claim that "most NFL teams have half their draft classes signed by now" you should be able to find at least eight teams who signed half their class by mid-May, right?I'm two for two on teams with significant progress on their draft classes at this point. I'm not googling all of them. You can, but I'm sure you'll just post incorrect dates some more.

Monomach
05-22-2011, 04:06 PM
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/05/19/league-finds-no-improper-lockout-contact/

Coaches are talking to players even though its against the rules and the league is pretty much ignoring it.

Yep. Business as usual.

PossibleCabbage
05-22-2011, 05:10 PM
There will not be a rookie wage scale until next year. No way, no how. It's too late for that.

If the 8th Circuit court of appeals rules as is expected (rescinding Judge Nelson's injunction enjoining the lockout), there are two things that can happen this offseason:

1) The NFLPA agrees to a new CBA, and any new CBA will contain a rookie wage scale.
2) The season is missed, because the owners won't lift the lockout without a CBA unless forced to by the courts, and no final ruling on the antitrust case will come this year.

In the case of #1 there will be a rookie wage scale next year.
In the case of #2, there will not be a rookie wage scale next year, but signing Cam Newton (or not) doesn't matter.

But to think there will be no rookie wage scale this year is essentially assuming that the 8th Circuit will rule contrary to the indications of their ruling in their brief granting the permanent stay, or assuming that there will be no football next year. The NFL simply won't lift the lockout voluntarily without a collective bargaining agreement. Considering that the NFL and NFLPA agreed in principle on a rookie wage scale in March (the disagreement that started this was simply "splitting the money," pretty much everything else was agreed upon), putting one in the next CBA is more or less a slam dunk.

LickaMahfeetz
05-25-2011, 02:11 AM
I can already picture his big cheesy smile right after he bends Carolina over on his new deal. I hope it's not plastered all over the interwebs for all to see but I know it will be. /sigh