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MI_Buckeye
05-23-2011, 01:22 AM
New York Giants

Where did the franchise stand before the draft?

It wasn't long ago at all that the New York Giants were viewed as on of the up-and-coming model franchises in the NFL.

After spoiling the Patriots' perfect 2011 season and winning the Super Bowl, The Giants responded by finishing the best record in the NFC during the regular season. With a dominant defensive front, perhaps a more dominant ground game and a rapidly maturing QB in Eli Manning who was apparently on the cusp of taking his seat at the table of elite, Hall of Fame worthy signal callers, it seemed the Giants were destined to compete year-in, year-out for Super Bowl championships.

That was then.

It hardly seems real that the Giants were so highly thought of given how ordinary they appear now. Following a crushing loss to the Eagles in that early 2009 divisional playoff game at the Meadowlands, the G-Men have gone two straight seasons without making the playoffs. Perhaps even less forgivable, they have lost the back pages to the traditionally second-fiddle Jets.

Their defense isn't as intimidating, their running game isn't as forceful, and their franchise QB has yet to live up to his billing or his contract. Sure the Giants ranked in the top ten in passing and rushing offense as well as passing and rushing defense in 2010, but they often melted under the glare of the game's brightest stages, such as when they blew a 21-point fourth quarter lead against the Eagles in December and subsequently got blown out in Green Bay the following week. Sure the Giants are a good team, but in this town; good is not good enough.

There is still a lot of hope for New York moving forward. As maddeningly inconsistent as Eli has been throughout his career, he remains a legitimate starting QB in the NFL with a very young and very talented array of weapons. The team has invested a lot over recent years to maintain their trademark defensive pressure, and very few organizations are as committed to running the ball as the Giants -- an attitude that could serve them well as defenses get smaller to adjust to the increasingly pass-happy nature of the game.

This is one of the few organizations that has a true identity with core fundamental beliefs. GM Jerry Reese retained Tom Coughlin as his head coach despite nationwide outcries for a change, because he knows few other coaches can bring the type of discipline this team needs to be successful. With a talented roster, this season will go a long way in determining whether or not the Giants' blue-collar approach will be maintained, tweaked or scrapped all together.

In the near term, the G-Men could have used help at linebacker, both inside and outside, but that was not a position of strength in this year's class. Also, the Giants are without an elite LT and could use help all along the O line.

The Picks

Round One, Pick 19: Prince Amukamara, CB, Nebraska

Not many people had the Giants taking a CB in the first couple rounds, but not many expected the Prince to fall this far either.

Corey Webster, Terrell Thomas and Aaron Ross comprise a solid but not elite corps of CBs, so the need here is suspect. However, Amukamara was viewed as a top ten pick throughout most of the draft process, and you can never have too many quality cover guys, especially on a defense like the Giants, which like to get creative in its pass rush.

Amukamara was probably always viewed higher in the media than he was in scouting circles, but he still profiles as an eventual No. 1 CB. Coming from Carl Pelini's highly-sophisticated defense at Nebraska, Amukamara is adept in a number of coverage techniques. I personally think he is best playing 7-10 yards off the line of scrimmage in man coverage, which the Giants primarily run.

Amukamara has average ball skills and probably won't be much of a playmaker at the position, but he is solid in all aspects of the game. He is good enough against the run to play a little free safety as well.

I look for Amukamara to challenge the top three cornerbacks in training camp and eventually win a starting job. He should, at some point, become their top cover corner. Although, it wasn't one of the most pressing concerns, the long-term upside of this pick makes it a good one.

Round Two, Pick 52: Marvin Austin, DT, North Carolina

Obviously an elite talent, Austin is one of the more enigmatic prospects in recent years.

There are tons of questions about Austin both on and off the field. He went to Chapel Hill as one of the most coveted prospects in the nation in 2007, and occasionally showed the elite skill set that was responsible for all his hype.

Austin has an absolutely devastating, Sappian first step. For a 6'2", 310 pound man, his lateral movement skills are absolutely breathtaking.

However, for all his immense gifts, Austin never developed into a truly dominant force in his three years playing for the Tar Heels. He showed signs of getting close towards end of his junior season, but illegal activities with an agent wiped out a crucial senior season for Austin.

At the beginning of the draft process, it looked like Austin was going to have to settle for being a mid-round pick at best. Fortunately for Austin, he was dynamic at the East-West Shrine week, showing the effort that was often lacking at North Carolina. Austin showcased his athleticism at the Combine and his Pro Day, and more importantly he positively combated questions about his maturity and left a favorable impression on front office decision makers. He did such a 180, that Mike Mayock once virtually guaranteed he would be taken in the first round.

The question remains how genuine Austin's performance in the postseason was. Was this a guy who saw a big bag of money and wised up in order to secure a big signing bonus or is this a guy who truly has learned from his mistakes and is ready to make the game of football, not the lifestyle of a football player, the first or second most important thing in his life.

Round Three, Pick 83: Jerrel Jernigan, WR, Troy

Another polarizing prospect, some had him as an early second round pick, while some think he is a one-dimensional return specialist.

At 5'7", 180 pounds, Jernigan is one of the smallest players in this year's draft class and also one of the most electrifying. He is not a polished route runner, but he has the breakneck change-of-direction abilities to develop into a threatening Air Coryell-type receiver.

The Giants have pretty good depth at WR, and their long-term starters are pretty much set, providing Mario Manningham doesn't become a menace to society like some fear he might be capable of. And I'm not sure, but I think Steve Smith might be a free agent.

Regardless, Jernigan is a long way from being a steady contributor on offense. His initial value will be as a return man. Jernigan has great top-end speed to go along with his excellent quickness.

Round Four, Pick 117: James Brewer, OT, Indiana

Although he played RT for most of his college career, Brewer probably profiles more as a developmental LT.

He has great size at 6'6" 330 pounds and shockingly nimble feet for a man that size. He hasn't played a whole lot of football and must be brought along slowly. If he doesn't develop more of an attitude, he won't have great value inside or at RT.

Something about this pick makes me think the Giants aren't 100 percent confident moving forward with Will Beatty at LT.

Round Six, Pick 185: Greg Jones, LB, Michigan State

As a Michigander, I am still trying to wrap my head around the reality of Jonas Mouton going in the second round and Jones having to wait until the sixth.

Wildly active and productive at MSU, Jones probably fell this far because he doesn't have quite the physical tool set of guys like Nate Irving or Kelvin Sheppard and doesn't offer ideal versatility or special teams value.

Still, Jones is great against the run, never misses a tackle and has command calling signals. He is a liability in man coverage but is more than adequate playing zone. Jones should easily make the team, and it wouldn't be unthinkable to see him starting later in the season.

Round Six, Pick 198: Tyler Sash, S, Iowa

Another fantastic Big Ten defender who had to wait too long.

Sash has underrated athleticism and is a pure gamer. He will be excellent against the run, although you wouldn't want him covering the slot one-on-one too often.

Coming from Iowa, where star safeties do play special teams, he was one of the best in punt and kick coverage. I would suggest he will compete for time at the gunner and jammer positions.

Round Six, Pick 202: Jacquian Williams, OLB, South Florida

Williams is the third successive pick of the G-Men who was a better college player than pro prospect.

Williams is a pure weakside linebacker who is undersized and instinctive and rarely misses a tackle but doesn't make a ton of impact plays. Must become a special teams demon.

Round Seven, Pick 221: Da'Rel Scott, RB, Maryland

Scott has durability issues and never quite lived up to the potential he flashed throughout his career, but he has a phenomenal size-speed combination and is the type of late-round flyer the Giants have hit on before (see: Ahmad Bradshaw, Brandon Jacobs).

All in all:

Once again, Jerry Reese sticks to his game plan, doesn't move around and gets players that fit in with the personality on the team.

Reese places a premium on athleticism, and this draft has plenty of athletes, but Reese has balanced this by recognizing college production and draft value. There really weren't any reaches if you go by the general draft boards, and the class has a good mix of proven, pro-ready players with high-upside projects.

There isn't a whole of sizzle in this draft, and there are some questions at the top. Austin, as mentioned earlier, is a complete enigma, and as much capital as they earned in the media by taking Prince, he fell for a reason, and it is still a question if he is really even an elite prospect.

However, I commend the Giants for staying true to themselves. There are certainly some players in here that will surprise. Jernigan has first-class skills and at least one of the sixth round pick will stick.

Draft grade: B

Rosebud
05-23-2011, 12:47 PM
Eli is not maddeningly inconsistent and I don't see how anyone who's actually watched him play could come to such a ludicrous conclusion, in fact outside of the stupidity of our OC Eli is the most consistent aspect of the giants. Not really his fault when he ends up throwing passes to Mario Manningham and a bunch of street free agents in one of the league's most unnecessarily complicated offenses.

As for our Corner crew, C-Web may be one of the top 5 corners in the entire league, but he's getting up there, add to that that both TT and Ross are nearing the ends of their contracts and it's almost a given that one of our 3 corners won't be a giant next season. In this passing league you need at least 3 starting caliber corners to match up on D, so CB was a need, and one a number of us giants fans voiced before the season.

As for Brewer I don't see how he effects Beatty since he is going to be groomed to replace the player he most reminds me of, RT Kareem McKenzie. That's why Beatty will be our starting LT next season and Brewer a developmental RT waiting until McKenzie walks next summer.

Everyone after Brewer was picked ot play special teams other than Scott who'll get a chance to at least compete for the third RB spot, depending on how FA plays out with Bradshaw.

FlyingElvis
05-23-2011, 01:18 PM
Solid notes. I think Prince is a great pick by the Giants. Nobody wins the NFC East without an excellent group of CBs. The Boys & Eagles aren't running the ball much, and even the Skins will be heaving it.

A productive guy like Jones should be a steal for them that late, too. We'll see if his relative lack of athleticism translates to him being neutralized often.



On Eli . . .
The fact that announcers, analysts and all talking heads generally question "which Eli will show up" is a pretty clear indictment that Eli is definitely inconsistent.

His numbers are all over the place, ranging from a completion percentage of 55 one game to 71 the next and the same is true of his INTs. You never know which way the 4:2 ratio will be INT:TD or TD:INT. Suggesting you "don't see how anyone who's actually watched him play could come to such a ludicrous conclusion" is ludicrous, actually.

I totally agree he takes more heat than he should, but let's not get carried away.

scottyboy
05-23-2011, 01:30 PM
so a developmental 4th rounder, with an aging an oft-injured Kareem McKenzie on the right side, leads you to believe we're not confident in Beatty going forward? sure. let's go with that.

MI_Buckeye
05-23-2011, 01:41 PM
so a developmental 4th rounder, with an aging an oft-injured Kareem McKenzie on the right side, leads you to believe we're not confident in Beatty going forward? sure. let's go with that.

That came to my mind, because I don't view Brewer as a RT. I've seen him play plenty and he is just not that physical. Honestly though, if Dave Diehl is your starting LT this season, I would be concerned about Beatty's prospects going forward.

scottyboy
05-23-2011, 04:30 PM
That came to my mind, because I don't view Brewer as a RT. I've seen him play plenty and he is just not that physical. Honestly though, if Dave Diehl is your starting LT this season, I would be concerned about Beatty's prospects going forward.

It depends what they feel on Beatty and Diehl playing inside and who they want at center. I feel Beatty may start at LT, Diehl at LG and perhaps Seubert at center if O'Hara isn't healthy enough. Then again, when all healthy, the line of Diehl-Seubert-O'Hara-Snee-KMac all have pretty good chemistry and got results

Rosebud
05-24-2011, 11:28 AM
Solid notes. I think Prince is a great pick by the Giants. Nobody wins the NFC East without an excellent group of CBs. The Boys & Eagles aren't running the ball much, and even the Skins will be heaving it.

A productive guy like Jones should be a steal for them that late, too. We'll see if his relative lack of athleticism translates to him being neutralized often.



On Eli . . .
The fact that announcers, analysts and all talking heads generally question "which Eli will show up" is a pretty clear indictment that Eli is definitely inconsistent.

His numbers are all over the place, ranging from a completion percentage of 55 one game to 71 the next and the same is true of his INTs. You never know which way the 4:2 ratio will be INT:TD or TD:INT. Suggesting you "don't see how anyone who's actually watched him play could come to such a ludicrous conclusion" is ludicrous, actually.

I totally agree he takes more heat than he should, but let's not get carried away.

You are giving announcers and talking heads way too much credit. Which Eli shows up is determined by how ******** our WRs are on a given day. Our offensive passing scheme is based entirely on choice routes meaning that WRs have to make the right read out of 6 on most passing plays. Most of Eli's picks have come when he made the right read and the WR didn't, this was a problem with Plax and Shockey and it's a problem with Mario Manningham and the street free agents we had brought in a couple weeks before hand that eli was throwing to at the end of the season.

So I guess it's not ridiculous I just generally give people the benefit of the doubt on being able to pay attention and do a little research, especially when they're putting this much work into pounding out reviews for every team in the league. I understand why clueless talking heads can't understand how "retardedly complex route system" + "not too bright/attentive/experienced WRs" goes wrong without the Eli doing a single thing wrong, but I guess I was giving the OP too much credit. My bad.

FlyingElvis
05-24-2011, 11:58 AM
You are giving announcers and talking heads way too much credit. Which Eli shows up is determined by how ******** our WRs are on a given day. Our offensive passing scheme is based entirely on choice routes meaning that WRs have to make the right read out of 6 on most passing plays. Most of Eli's picks have come when he made the right read and the WR didn't, this was a problem with Plax and Shockey and it's a problem with Mario Manningham and the street free agents we had brought in a couple weeks before hand that eli was throwing to at the end of the season.

So I guess it's not ridiculous I just generally give people the benefit of the doubt on being able to pay attention and do a little research, especially when they're putting this much work into pounding out reviews for every team in the league. I understand why clueless talking heads can't understand how "retardedly complex route system" + "not too bright/attentive/experienced WRs" goes wrong without the Eli doing a single thing wrong, but I guess I was giving the OP too much credit. My bad.

I get nothing but Giants games as my regional coverage and agree with the announcers and talking heads. I've seen Eli throw plenty of junk. It's not all WRs running the wrong route. He doesn't throw the ball away as often as he should and forces plenty of balls. It's still on him to make good decisions and there are plenty of times where he simply does not.

You're making a ton of excuses for Eli. I'm not saying it's all his fault but he's not blame-free, either. And he's sure as **** not what I would call consistent.

Rosebud
05-25-2011, 09:22 AM
I get nothing but Giants games as my regional coverage and agree with the announcers and talking heads. I've seen Eli throw plenty of junk. It's not all WRs running the wrong route. He doesn't throw the ball away as often as he should and forces plenty of balls. It's still on him to make good decisions and there are plenty of times where he simply does not.

You're making a ton of excuses for Eli. I'm not saying it's all his fault but he's not blame-free, either. And he's sure as **** not what I would call consistent.

Guess you're just not paying attention then, or watching the games. Because eli's the most consistent player on this team from game to game. Literally the only difference between his good games and terrible ones is how on the same page his wideouts are. Sometimes he does break from character and just put up a monster game from start to finish, so I guess he is inconsistent in that, but the guy comes out plays great every week and with the game on the line Tom Brady's the only QB I trust more to get it done.

NY+Giants=NYG
05-25-2011, 04:17 PM
Wow a B. That's probably the lowest grade I have seen so far.

MI_Buckeye
05-25-2011, 07:47 PM
Wow a B. That's probably the lowest grade I have seen so far.

I think people are overrating the first two picks. Austin actually went higher than he should of based on his college career, not to mention the off-field and immaturity issues. Prince was a good value pick, but it wasn't amazing value like everyone is making it out to be. I knew Houston and Detroit would pass on him, and he was never as good (slam-dunk top ten pick) as some were making him out to be.

Also, I try to be as honest as possible when evaluating a draft. Most media experts tend to chicken out a little and give way too many grades on the higher end of the curve. It's kind of like high school English, way too many A's just for not completely embarrassing yourself.

Unbiased
05-25-2011, 08:42 PM
I think people are overrating the first two picks. Austin actually went higher than he should of based on his college career, not to mention the off-field and immaturity issues. Prince was a good value pick, but it wasn't amazing value like everyone is making it out to be. I knew Houston and Detroit would pass on him, and he was never as good (slam-dunk top ten pick) as some were making him out to be.

Also, I try to be as honest as possible when evaluating a draft. Most media experts tend to chicken out a little and give way too many grades on the higher end of the curve. It's kind of like high school English, way too many A's just for not completely embarrassing yourself.

I agree on Austin. Even if you strip off all of his character concerns, I don't see the value. You have to produce to be a second round pick in my mind.

Disagree on Amukamara, though. Great value to me.

BaLLiN
05-25-2011, 10:56 PM
so a developmental 4th rounder, with an aging an oft-injured Kareem McKenzie on the right side, leads you to believe we're not confident in Beatty going forward? sure. let's go with that.

Lawlskies. I think the real thing here is that people are underestimating his ability to be a run blocker. Sure, in college he was inconsistent but his frame and long arms suggest that he would be a very good run blocker. His feet (he played basketball) seem very nimble, he could play LT in the future, but given that he is relatively new to football, RT is a better position for him. This is why Beatty will be a LT and Brewer will be a RT at least for start.

That came to my mind, because I don't view Brewer as a RT. I've seen him play plenty and he is just not that physical. Honestly though, if Dave Diehl is your starting LT this season, I would be concerned about Beatty's prospects going forward.

Honestly, Seubert got injured again. I know it may be hard to believe, but draftniks will be right about this. Diehl needs to be kicked inside, he played much better there and we Beatty was very good last year and should be given a legitimate chance.

I think people are overrating the first two picks. Austin actually went higher than he should of based on his college career, not to mention the off-field and immaturity issues. Prince was a good value pick, but it wasn't amazing value like everyone is making it out to be. I knew Houston and Detroit would pass on him, and he was never as good (slam-dunk top ten pick) as some were making him out to be.

Also, I try to be as honest as possible when evaluating a draft. Most media experts tend to chicken out a little and give way too many grades on the higher end of the curve. It's kind of like high school English, way too many A's just for not completely embarrassing yourself.

I'm pretty sure we're not overrating the first two picks, Amukamara isn't revis but neither is Peterson. Prince is also very new to his position, and you can see his technique isn't always consistent, but he has the best instincts of any corner in this class. He also ran the most diverse defense, and his 2010 stats are indicative of a what he is capable of under normal circumstances. His 2011 stats show that his defense was adjusted so that he would have no help, little to no time to see the ball before the receiver put their hands up due to the more press man looks he was put in. His defense became much less talented and even though he did have a great season (relook the ok st game, he only let up 2 catches for 47 yards 0 TD besides a flea flicker which is unrealistic and was strung out to dry by both safeties who bit, and it was against the third best WR in the country in blackmon arguably a top 10 pick next year).

Marvin Austin is a questionmark, but if as ive explained many times:

Austin is a prime example of this Boom/Bust label. He is either loved or hated, it doesn't help that we've had some duds in NY with Willaim Joseph (former first round pick) and Rocky Bernard (FA pickup). Couple that with the fact that he didn't put up great numbers and didn't play up to his potential, and you have legit concerns.

Most people disliked him because of this, regardless of where he would be drafted. But where he was drafted was at least up to his value, probably better value for the giants as a team because of our need and trust in coaching.

We have as good of the coaching and supporting cast as anyone else in the NFL, so Austin landed in a situation that is ideal for his success. He will be getting 1 on 1's and playing the position he should (UT, he played mostly over the 1 gap at UNC) which will utilize his burst and strength to its best.

I think Funbuncher said this "you don't just wake up and run a 4.8 forty at 308 pounds". Austin has shown his re-commitment to the game through a full year of hard work. He wants to get better, and his motor should not be in question. If he wins 1 or 2 out of the 10+ 1 on 1's he will get in a game, those 1 or 2 plays can completely change the tide of the game.

You all are underestimating the later round picks we had, Williams definitely profiles as a better pro in our system and as does Jones.

BaLLiN
05-25-2011, 11:11 PM
As for this whole Eli debate, Its obvious that people are critical of him (Joe ****ING BUCK and Troy ****HEAD Aikman) because of all the interceptions, its just ridiculous how they came to be. I will say that of the 25 interceptions, around 10 of them were not his fault at all, and thats being generous to all the haters.

If you did watch the giants games, i recall freak interceptions such as when hakeem nicks had the ball bounce off his hands, get hit by Finnegan and intercepted by a tennessee DL. There were a few other ridiculous ones, but the number of interceptions due to a wrong route was far more a reason.

We had Hagan, Manningham, and Duke Calhoun playing our starting three WR positions at one time.

1. Manningham got a 6 on the wonderlic
2. Duke Calhoun was a FA rookie that probably wasn't given many reps due to the depth we originally had at WR, being new to the team, not having experience with the more WR-reliant offense is definitely going to hurt a passing game.
3. We had Michael Clayton running routes just to be a body out there essentially, he didn't know what he was doing, we signed him a few days prior to a game and suited him up.
4. Hagan had just come off the street, has some familiarity with the offense because he played the year prior, but its not as simple as you think, WR's have to read coverages too, especially our slot guy who is usually the checkdown. This means that if eli is pressured and he throws to his checkdown, he probably wont have time to be questioning himself "is he running the right route" thats not his job.

Now you may say, Phillips Rivers had FA players come in and play and did well. Well no ****, that offense is a lot more open, the routes are more simple and rely purely on timing and positioning of the ball and receiver. The giants passing game moreso relies on the routes in combination given the coverage in order to get the player open, rather than just to throw him open.

MI_Buckeye
05-26-2011, 03:13 AM
I must say, I never expected this degree of Eli apologetics. I thought New Yorkers were supposed to be tough on their athletes.

Listen, you guys have a very good WR corps and a talented TE. You can't blame them for every bad play Eli has. Consistency issues have plagued him far longer than the current crop of targets have been around.

Let's be real here. Eli has played about two months of elite QB in his career, and that came during their Super Bowl run. Aside from that, he has been a solidly above average starting QB. You can certainly win with him, but I just went through a list of the starting QBs in my head, and Eli comes in around No. 14, and you could make an argument he should be as high as 11. Certainly not elite.

MI_Buckeye
05-26-2011, 03:18 AM
You all are underestimating the later round picks we had, Williams definitely profiles as a better pro in our system and as does Jones.

I'm not underestimating the later round picks, I actually like their last four picks quite a bit. I said in my final section that at least one of the sixth round picks (Jones, Sash, Williams) will stick as an impact player.

GaMeTiMe
05-26-2011, 03:31 AM
I was a huge fan of the Giants draft early, but the more I look at it the more skeptical I become. If Austin flames out fast it'll really flop, but I'm not sure any of the other players will be any better than league-average starters. They are all solid prospects with both talent and safe ceilings no doubt, but the Giants do draft a lot of guys like that and not all of them hit but are more than capable back-ups and fill-in players.


They had an A draft because they found value in every round. I just think your B grade is what we will label it as a few years down the line, if Prince is a league-average second corner, Brewer a utility reserve and Jernigan a return-man and situational speedster in the slot. I like Jones's chances of succeeding but he may just be what saves it.

scottyboy
05-26-2011, 08:25 AM
I must say, I never expected this degree of Eli apologetics. I thought New Yorkers were supposed to be tough on their athletes.

Listen, you guys have a very good WR corps and a talented TE. You can't blame them for every bad play Eli has. Consistency issues have plagued him far longer than the current crop of targets have been around.

Let's be real here. Eli has played about two months of elite QB in his career, and that came during their Super Bowl run. Aside from that, he has been a solidly above average starting QB. You can certainly win with him, but I just went through a list of the starting QBs in my head, and Eli comes in around No. 14, and you could make an argument he should be as high as 11. Certainly not elite.

yes, we're tough on our athletes...when they're not doing well and suck. which should speak volumes at the amount of Eli supporters. Eli has won with garbage. We were crushed by teh injuriez at WR last season, along with the left side of the OL. Now I'm not one to absolutely stand up and go down swinging for many Giants players, but I will take to my grave that Eli Manning is a top 10 QB in the league. Us "New Yorkers" are more sick of seeing Eli get **** on undeservingly by fans of other teams and media outlets. I swear, if the dude's last name was Eli Smith he'd be considered a top 10 QB by virtually everyone

NY+Giants=NYG
05-26-2011, 09:36 AM
I think people are overrating the first two picks. Austin actually went higher than he should of based on his college career, not to mention the off-field and immaturity issues. Prince was a good value pick, but it wasn't amazing value like everyone is making it out to be. I knew Houston and Detroit would pass on him, and he was never as good (slam-dunk top ten pick) as some were making him out to be.

Also, I try to be as honest as possible when evaluating a draft. Most media experts tend to chicken out a little and give way too many grades on the higher end of the curve. It's kind of like high school English, way too many A's just for not completely embarrassing yourself.

I think those people are the minority then. From all the "experts" grades and analysis stuff I read, they LOVED the first two picks. That jives with what our GM, coach and Director of Scouting said, when we drafted them. We had them as basically top 15 talent, that fell to us. Apparently, the guys in the media who grade and do analysis feel the same way.

Not sure, where these people are coming up with over rating the first two picks. I think we have one of the best drafts in the league. We got excellent value with respect to our position in drafting. Apparently, most of the "experts" felt the same way.

I hate drafting defense, but even I admit this draft was very successful. Just ask the giants fans on here. They can tell you how much I loathe drafting defensive players, especially since we do it year after year. But I gotta toss that bias aside and realize this draft is probably ranked up there as one of the best drafts by a team this year.

Maybe This Year Mayhew
05-26-2011, 12:33 PM
As for this whole Eli debate, Its obvious that people are critical of him (Joe ****ING BUCK and Troy ****HEAD Aikman) because of all the interceptions, its just ridiculous how they came to be. I will say that of the 25 interceptions, around 10 of them were not his fault at all, and thats being generous to all the haters.

If you did watch the giants games, i recall freak interceptions such as when hakeem nicks had the ball bounce off his hands, get hit by Finnegan and intercepted by a tennessee DL. There were a few other ridiculous ones, but the number of interceptions due to a wrong route was far more a reason.

We had Hagan, Manningham, and Duke Calhoun playing our starting three WR positions at one time.

1. Manningham got a 6 on the wonderlic
2. Duke Calhoun was a FA rookie that probably wasn't given many reps due to the depth we originally had at WR, being new to the team, not having experience with the more WR-reliant offense is definitely going to hurt a passing game.
3. We had Michael Clayton running routes just to be a body out there essentially, he didn't know what he was doing, we signed him a few days prior to a game and suited him up.
4. Hagan had just come off the street, has some familiarity with the offense because he played the year prior, but its not as simple as you think, WR's have to read coverages too, especially our slot guy who is usually the checkdown. This means that if eli is pressured and he throws to his checkdown, he probably wont have time to be questioning himself "is he running the right route" thats not his job.

Now you may say, Phillips Rivers had FA players come in and play and did well. Well no ****, that offense is a lot more open, the routes are more simple and rely purely on timing and positioning of the ball and receiver. The giants passing game moreso relies on the routes in combination given the coverage in order to get the player open, rather than just to throw him open.

How many games was that you had those guys playing? Eli I agree is a top 10 QB and not the problem last year. Nor was lack of receivers in the losses though. Nicks,Manningham and Boss played in your last 4 losses of the year. Dallas(2 ints) scored 20 points though, at Philly(3 ints) scored 17, Philly(1 int) scored 31 great game by Eli and at GB(4 ints) scored 17. The problem was your defense/special teams/turnovers gave up 33,27,38, and 45 points in those games.

Rosebud
05-26-2011, 01:31 PM
I must say, I never expected this degree of Eli apologetics. I thought New Yorkers were supposed to be tough on their athletes.

Listen, you guys have a very good WR corps and a talented TE. You can't blame them for every bad play Eli has. Consistency issues have plagued him far longer than the current crop of targets have been around.

Let's be real here. Eli has played about two months of elite QB in his career, and that came during their Super Bowl run. Aside from that, he has been a solidly above average starting QB. You can certainly win with him, but I just went through a list of the starting QBs in my head, and Eli comes in around No. 14, and you could make an argument he should be as high as 11. Certainly not elite.

See, that's just not true, Eli comes through with elite play any time we need a late game score. His #s may not be elite but his play has been. That's why you find people who watch him week to week defending him, we're very tough on our athletes when they deserve it, Eli most certainly doesn't deserve it though.

Peyton, Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Rivers and Roethlisberger, not a single other QB in the league is clearly ahead of eli. Guys like Vick have a strong case but that's it. Cutler, Romo, Ryan, Flacco, Bradford and Freeman aren't as good as Eli, at least not yet, and Eli's still getting better every season himself.

MI_Buckeye
05-26-2011, 04:34 PM
I think those people are the minority then. From all the "experts" grades and analysis stuff I read, they LOVED the first two picks. That jives with what our GM, coach and Director of Scouting said, when we drafted them. We had them as basically top 15 talent, that fell to us. Apparently, the guys in the media who grade and do analysis feel the same way.

Not sure, where these people are coming up with over rating the first two picks. I think we have one of the best drafts in the league. We got excellent value with respect to our position in drafting. Apparently, most of the "experts" felt the same way.

I hate drafting defense, but even I admit this draft was very successful. Just ask the giants fans on here. They can tell you how much I loathe drafting defensive players, especially since we do it year after year. But I gotta toss that bias aside and realize this draft is probably ranked up there as one of the best drafts by a team this year.

But see, that is why I am saying those first two picks are overrated, because everyone loves them.

It should be clear to everyone that Austin was no steal. I have already spilled my two cents a couple of times on that.

Prince, however, is interesting. He plays a premium position, started the process really highly, had really good workouts and steadily slipped throughout the draft process. That should tell you his tape wasn't THAT great.

I pretty much knew on draft day that Houston and Detroit were going to pass on him, so it really wasn't that much of a surprise to see him fall to 19. He was undeniably a good value pick at 19, just not this unbelievable steal that most have made him out to be.