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Texico From Mexico
06-17-2006, 10:49 AM
Not everyone can be added to a poll so hence the OTHER option.

Gang Green
06-17-2006, 10:51 AM
Bob Gibson was best in the clutch. Nolan Ryan is best all time.

06-17-2006, 10:52 AM
I gotta go with cy.

Brodeur
06-17-2006, 10:53 AM
I'd have to go with Walter Johnson as he threw up to 99 in the deadball era and was just dominant. He should be on there at least over Nolan Ryan, who really isn't a top 20 pitcher.

Texico From Mexico
06-17-2006, 10:54 AM
I picked Koufax because in a 10 year period I think he was the greatest pitcher to ever play the game. No he did not have the longevity of Rayn and others because he threw himself out.

VoteLynnSwan
06-17-2006, 10:56 AM
It's Walter Johnson, can't believe he's not even on the list. Nolan Ryan and Tom sever shouldn't even be on the list.

06-17-2006, 10:56 AM
I'd have to go with Walter Johnson as he threw up to 99 in the deadball era and was just dominant. He should be on there at least over Nolan Ryan, who really isn't a top 20 pitcher.

i agree johnson should be there but so should nolan ryan. i dont think maddux should. he has great numbers but hes not better than johnson.

Texico From Mexico
06-17-2006, 10:57 AM
It's Walter Johnson, can't believe he's not even on the list. Nolan Ryan and Tom sever shouldn't even be on the list.

I had to mix it up, was not going to put 20 people on the list...had to try and mix up eras as well. I could have put Ford, Nikero, Palmer and so many others...

Smokey Joe
06-17-2006, 11:15 AM
I think I gotta go with Cy Young. When it all comes down to it, only one stat matters and that is W. And Cy got 511 of them. Plus, he had a career E.R.A. of 2.6 or something.

Christy Matthewson, Walter Johnson, and maybe even Grover Cleveland Alexander should be on that list.

Take off Maddux and Clemens, they're not even done with their careers.

rainbeaukid2
06-17-2006, 11:18 AM
nolan ryan is the best of all time.

Brodeur
06-17-2006, 11:21 AM
I think I gotta go with Cy Young. When it all comes down to it, only one stat matters and that is W. And Cy got 511 of them. Plus, he had a career E.R.A. of 2.6 or something.

Christy Matthewson, Walter Johnson, and maybe even Grover Cleveland Alexander should be on that list.

Take off Maddux and Clemens, they're not even done with their careers.

Maddux is a guy that deserves to be on there. He has dominating command and has been extremely consistent. So does Clemens. Cy Young only had 511 wins because his arm lasted so long and he pitched in the deadball era, he never had any dominating stuff really.

The only player I would take off the list is Nolan Ryan, because he never had the best control.

Giantsfan1080
06-17-2006, 12:10 PM
It's Walter Johnson, can't believe he's not even on the list. Nolan Ryan and Tom sever shouldn't even be on the list.

If you don't think Tom Seaver should be on this list then you don't even belong in the discussion. He has a career E.R.A below 3 which most of these guys don't have. He also has over 300 wins and 3,500 K's.

thule
06-17-2006, 12:14 PM
I agree, I can't believe and old timer like yourself would leave guys like Walter Johnson and Grover Alexander off.

Texico From Mexico
06-17-2006, 12:15 PM
I agree, I can't believe and old timer like yourself would leave guys like Walter Johnson and Grover Alexander off.

You need to go back and read what I wrote...umm in two places actually.

06-17-2006, 12:16 PM
I agree, I can't believe and old timer like yourself would leave guys like Walter Johnson and Grover Alexander off.

You need to go back and read what I wrote...umm in two places actually.

thats not an excuse for not putting on johnson

Texico From Mexico
06-17-2006, 12:49 PM
I agree, I can't believe and old timer like yourself would leave guys like Walter Johnson and Grover Alexander off.

You need to go back and read what I wrote...umm in two places actually.

thats not an excuse for not putting on johnson

Becuase I was typing off the top of my head....you are an idiot. Sorry, but you saw my reasons. There are so many I could have listed and just threw it out there. That is what the "other" is for

P-L
06-17-2006, 12:59 PM
I agree Walter Johnson is a top pitcher of all-time, but using the fact that he pitched in the deadball era isn't really supporting that. The deadball era was when there was little offense and pitchers dominated. During the deadball era HR were a premium and pitchers had way more advantages than hitters did.

Cy Young isn't in the top 5 pitchers of all-time. He had 500+ wins, but at the same time he holds the record for most losses as well. The reason Young was able to rack up so many wins was because of how long he pitched for and how many games he pitched in a season. Young has more career losses than Tom Seaver does wins.

Personally, I like Roger Clemens. I know he isn't done with his career but he is by far the best pitcher of our era, which is arguably the hardest era to pitch in. In the current era is opposite of the deadball era. Everyone and their mother hits 30 HR a season while HR and R are all at an all-time high. Add in the steroid scandal (assuming he didn't do roids) and Clemens is pitching in an era where offense dominates. He has 300 wins and will probably finish 8th all-time, an amazing 4502 K (2nd to only Nolan Ryan), a career ERA of 3.12, 7 Cy Young awards (Most ever), and a 1.17 WHIP.

Smokey Joe
06-17-2006, 01:13 PM
I agree Walter Johnson is a top pitcher of all-time, but using the fact that he pitched in the deadball era isn't really supporting that. The deadball era was when there was little offense and pitchers dominated. During the deadball era HR were a premium and pitchers had way more advantages than hitters did.

Cy Young isn't in the top 5 pitchers of all-time. He had 500+ wins, but at the same time he holds the record for most losses as well. The reason Young was able to rack up so many wins was because of how long he pitched for and how many games he pitched in a season. Young has more career losses than Tom Seaver does wins.
Personally, I like Roger Clemens. I know he isn't done with his career but he is by far the best pitcher of our era, which is arguably the hardest era to pitch in. In the current era is opposite of the deadball era. Everyone and their mother hits 30 HR a season while HR and R are all at an all-time high. Add in the steroid scandal (assuming he didn't do roids) and Clemens is pitching in an era where offense dominates. He has 300 wins and will probably finish 8th all-time, an amazing 4502 K (2nd to only Nolan Ryan), a career ERA of 3.12, 7 Cy Young awards (Most ever), and a 1.17 WHIP.
So what! Because he was a man, and was able to start 50 games a season means he doesn't count? He had a great arm, so he isn't a top pitcher? Yes, he had a lot of losses, but when you take his win to loss ratio it is better then Walter Johnson. Plus, he pitched in nearly 1000 games, and he held a career ERA of 2.6. You cannot tell me that he is not one of the top 5 pitchers, if not the best.

Giantsfan1080
06-17-2006, 01:14 PM
I think Pedro Martinez is the greatest pitcher of our era when you take into account his dominating stretch from 1997-2003. Clemens never had a 6 year strecth like that and arguably it was better than Koufax's 5/6 year period of his dominant pitching. Pedro in 200 in the AL in the midst of the steroid era in a small ballpark had a 1.74 E.R.A with 313 K's and only 37 BB's. You'll be hard pressed to find any pitcher in the history of baseball have as good a season as that.

Tobzilla
06-17-2006, 01:43 PM
Id say Nolan Ryan. Bob Gibson was great too.

thule
06-17-2006, 01:51 PM
I think Pedro Martinez is the greatest pitcher of our era when you take into account his dominating stretch from 1997-2003. Clemens never had a 6 year strecth like that and arguably it was better than Koufax's 5/6 year period of his dominant pitching. Pedro in 200 in the AL in the midst of the steroid era in a small ballpark had a 1.74 E.R.A with 313 K's and only 37 BB's. You'll be hard pressed to find any pitcher in the history of baseball have as good a season as that.

I agree...Pedro's span of dominance has been great. I think it comes down to a personal preference when your breaking down Pedro vs. Clemens. Both have been and are currently great.

ATLDirtyBirds
06-17-2006, 01:52 PM
Pedro and Walter Johnson

GB12
06-17-2006, 05:31 PM
I gotta go with cy.

I agree 511 is almost impossible to beat

Brodeur
06-17-2006, 05:43 PM
I agree Walter Johnson is a top pitcher of all-time, but using the fact that he pitched in the deadball era isn't really supporting that. The deadball era was when there was little offense and pitchers dominated. During the deadball era HR were a premium and pitchers had way more advantages than hitters did.

Cy Young isn't in the top 5 pitchers of all-time. He had 500+ wins, but at the same time he holds the record for most losses as well. The reason Young was able to rack up so many wins was because of how long he pitched for and how many games he pitched in a season. Young has more career losses than Tom Seaver does wins.
Personally, I like Roger Clemens. I know he isn't done with his career but he is by far the best pitcher of our era, which is arguably the hardest era to pitch in. In the current era is opposite of the deadball era. Everyone and their mother hits 30 HR a season while HR and R are all at an all-time high. Add in the steroid scandal (assuming he didn't do roids) and Clemens is pitching in an era where offense dominates. He has 300 wins and will probably finish 8th all-time, an amazing 4502 K (2nd to only Nolan Ryan), a career ERA of 3.12, 7 Cy Young awards (Most ever), and a 1.17 WHIP.
So what! Because he was a man, and was able to start 50 games a season means he doesn't count? He had a great arm, so he isn't a top pitcher? Yes, he had a lot of losses, but when you take his win to loss ratio it is better then Walter Johnson. Plus, he pitched in nearly 1000 games, and he held a career ERA of 2.6. You cannot tell me that he is not one of the top 5 pitchers, if not the best.

Walter Johnson played on a terrible team nearly his whole career, which is why he doesn't have so many wins. Walter has a much better ERA, more SO's, and would adapt much better to this era than Cy Young would.

Jimmy
06-17-2006, 05:49 PM
Nolan Ryan. Simple choice for me.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
06-17-2006, 05:55 PM
I think Satchel Paige was great, and he hasn't been mentioned. Too bad he didn't play his prime in the majors.

yodabear
06-17-2006, 05:56 PM
My distant cousin Nolan.

draftguru151
06-17-2006, 07:09 PM
I'm gonna go with Bob Gibson.

Draft King
06-17-2006, 10:56 PM
I personally believe that Satchel Paige was the greatest to ever play the game, if he had a chance to play in the MLB earlier on in his career he would have shown alot of people what a dominant pitcher looked like.

Hawk
06-17-2006, 11:03 PM
Cy Young, by far IMO

giantfAn
06-17-2006, 11:56 PM
kofax dominated, he had the biggest fingers ever and could command and throw the ball better than anyone for a decade or more. i chose him but never seen cy young... i would choose him just because the trophy is named after him... but then again i do not choose things based on stats.. if i did that... i would think VY has a chance in hell to develop into a nfl qb.

06-17-2006, 11:56 PM
I don't know or follow baseball so i just guessed Cy Young

06-18-2006, 01:51 PM
My case Nolan Ryan is not worthy of the greatest of all time
Loses 292 Wins 324 thats a .526 win%

Bob Gibsons is 70% points higher

While he may be the strike out king he is also the walk king with..
2795 walks 1st all time. He led the league in walks 8 years

he has 277 wild pitches 1st all time

and hit 159 batters 9th all time

HE NEVER WON A CY YOUNG... and was only an 8 time all star taking into account he played for 27 years...

Bob Gisbon was and 8 time all start and 3 time cy young award winner and played 10 less years.

psub10champs
06-18-2006, 02:14 PM
It's Walter Johnson, can't believe he's not even on the list. Nolan Ryan and Tom sever shouldn't even be on the list.

Cy Young> Walter Johnson. Both were great pitchers

psub10champs
06-18-2006, 02:15 PM
Cy Young, by far IMO

Not by far.

Brodeur
06-18-2006, 02:40 PM
It's Walter Johnson, can't believe he's not even on the list. Nolan Ryan and Tom sever shouldn't even be on the list.

Cy Young> Walter Johnson. Both were great pitchers

Name one reason why Cy Young is better.

ny10804
06-18-2006, 04:06 PM
One notable absence is Randy Johnson and his 5 Cy Youngs and 4441 Ks. I'd say he's top 5.

Canadian_kid16
06-18-2006, 04:08 PM
It's Walter Johnson, can't believe he's not even on the list. Nolan Ryan and Tom sever shouldn't even be on the list.

Cy Young> Walter Johnson. Both were great pitchers

Name one reason why Cy Young is better.

More wins

Shiver
06-18-2006, 05:53 PM
Cy Young played in a dead-ball era, those wins do not mean much, nor do they translate.


My vote goes to Bob Gibson.

keylime_5
06-18-2006, 07:42 PM
It's definitely Spahn, Clemens, or Ryan...............but I voted Cy Young because he played for Cleveland

slightlyaraiderfan
06-18-2006, 08:55 PM
Too many people are saying Nolan Ryan, he is probably the best strikeout pitcher of all time; but not the best "pitcher" of all time.

Brodeur
06-18-2006, 08:56 PM
It's Walter Johnson, can't believe he's not even on the list. Nolan Ryan and Tom sever shouldn't even be on the list.

Cy Young> Walter Johnson. Both were great pitchers

Name one reason why Cy Young is better.

More wins

A terrible reason. Walter played for a FAR worse team than Cy did and played less years.

SidneyG
06-19-2006, 10:04 AM
Bob Gibson I mean they changed the rules because of his dominance. I only saw him at the very end of his carrer but easily the best I have ever seen and my vote for the best ever.

drowe
06-19-2006, 10:09 AM
i voted for cy young but i can't believe warren spahn doesn't have a vote yet.

P-L
06-19-2006, 04:18 PM
I think Pedro Martinez is the greatest pitcher of our era when you take into account his dominating stretch from 1997-2003. Clemens never had a 6 year strecth like that and arguably it was better than Koufax's 5/6 year period of his dominant pitching. Pedro in 200 in the AL in the midst of the steroid era in a small ballpark had a 1.74 E.R.A with 313 K's and only 37 BB's. You'll be hard pressed to find any pitcher in the history of baseball have as good a season as that.

Trust me, I know. Pedro has been my favorite player since '97. He was the reason I fell in love with the Red Sox and I was almost obsessed with him for a few years. Pedro's dominance over those 6 years was amazing, I'm not sure if any pitcher has had a stretch like that. But I just feel that Clemens has had the better overall career. Clemens has been more consistant throughout each season, has more Cy Young awards (although Pedro should have 4), and has pitched better in the play-offs.

P-L
06-19-2006, 04:19 PM
I agree with whoever said it, Nolan Ryan has way too many votes.

psub10champs
06-19-2006, 10:08 PM
Bob Gibson I mean they changed the rules because of his dominance. I only saw him at the very end of his carrer but easily the best I have ever seen and my vote for the best ever.

That is a good point, that makes me give an edge to him over Johnson or Young

njx9
06-19-2006, 10:15 PM
My case Nolan Ryan is not worthy of the greatest of all time
Loses 292 Wins 324 thats a .526 win%

Bob Gibsons is 70% points higher

While he may be the strike out king he is also the walk king with..
2795 walks 1st all time. He led the league in walks 8 years

he has 277 wild pitches 1st all time

and hit 159 batters 9th all time

HE NEVER WON A CY YOUNG... and was only an 8 time all star taking into account he played for 27 years...

Bob Gisbon was and 8 time all start and 3 time cy young award winner and played 10 less years.

jesus, thank you.

is it just me or is it strikingly obvious that nolan ryan doesn't deserve half his votes solely on the basis that no one who's supported him in this thread so far has been able to say anything other than "nolan ryan, obviously" like it's a legitimate argument and actually proves something?

draftguru151
06-20-2006, 12:22 AM
Bob Gibson I mean they changed the rules because of his dominance. I only saw him at the very end of his carrer but easily the best I have ever seen and my vote for the best ever.

That's how you know you're good.

Vespasian
06-20-2006, 01:10 AM
Nolan Ryan.

P-L
06-20-2006, 07:17 AM
Three more Nolan Ryan facts:
1. 4.67 BB/9 (That is CRAZY)
2. 10 years he finished with a record under .500
3. Only a 2.04 K/BB (Glendon Rusch has a better K/BB)