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RaiderNation
06-01-2011, 03:31 PM
Rumors are Terrelle Pryor could be leaning toward entering the supplemental draft instead of dealing with what's going on at Ohio State. What teams could you see Pryor going to? What round?

The first team that came to mind for me is the Dolphins. They didn't add a young QB to be behind Henne, and Pryor could see time as a wildcat QB early on. Another team could be the Raiders since we were rumored to be targeting Kaepernick but missed out on him and Pryor brings a lot of the same attributes to the table. Plus Al would like Pryor's strong arm and athleticism.

vidae
06-01-2011, 03:35 PM
What about the Redskins? A lot of people thought they'd add one on draft day and they didn't.

And I don't know much about Pryor (I don't watch OSU), but doesn't he suck?

RaiderNation
06-01-2011, 03:43 PM
What about the Redskins? A lot of people thought they'd add one on draft day and they didn't.

And I don't know much about Pryor (I don't watch OSU), but doesn't he suck?

Ya that's another team that could has Pryor on their radar. I don't like Pryor that much as a prospect and probably wouldn't touch him until the 4th round, but in this QB driven league some team will be desperate enough to take a chance on him

underscore
06-01-2011, 03:50 PM
4th round at the earliest and slipping every day as his character flaws get unraveled by the day.

Duffman57
06-01-2011, 04:06 PM
Yah, i would say he'd be a 5th round pick, or somewhere around there for the supp draft, and i think that the Chargers are actually a very interesting situation for him. The chargers have shown that their not affraid to loose picks in upcoming drafts, and they have shown that if they like a guy, they will take him in the Supp draft. With the type of athlete Pryor is, they could give him a shot at WR as a QB convert (another thing that they have shown to do) and we have the coaching to make an athlete into a WR.

jrdrylie
06-01-2011, 04:16 PM
If Chicago took him with a 7th, I wouldn't be pissed because we really need a tall receiver. But there is no way he falls that far.

Some team will likely use a 4th and maybe even a 3rd rounder after he destroys the offseason workouts. If Cam Newton can go first overall, I don't see a reason why a team can't spend a mid round pick on Pryor.

gpngc
06-01-2011, 04:17 PM
^Newton is a better football player, athlete, and QB in every way imaginable. Pryor's release is so slow, his final pass attempt still hasn't left his fingers yet.

Jughead10
06-01-2011, 04:26 PM
Rumors are Terrelle Pryor could be leaning toward entering the supplemental draft instead of dealing with what's going on at Ohio State. What teams could you see Pryor going to? What round?

The first team that came to mind for me is the Dolphins. They didn't add a young QB to be behind Henne, and Pryor could see time as a wildcat QB early on. Another team could be the Raiders since we were rumored to be targeting Kaepernick but missed out on him and Pryor brings a lot of the same attributes to the table. Plus Al would like Pryor's strong arm and athleticism.

Parcells said one of his biggest mistakes was drafting Pat White. I know he's not running the team anymore but his value and philosophy I have to imagine still run deep with those who do. I can't see them making that mistake again.

Shane P. Hallam
06-01-2011, 04:26 PM
A post like this without a token Raiders mention is a travesty (sorry). If they liked Kaepernick, no reason not to spend a 3rd-4th rounder on Pryor. Toss in the fact that I would bet some teams would ask him to work out at WR, it could get interesting.

PossibleCabbage
06-01-2011, 05:09 PM
A post like this without a token Raiders mention is a travesty (sorry). If they liked Kaepernick, no reason not to spend a 3rd-4th rounder on Pryor. Toss in the fact that I would bet some teams would ask him to work out at WR, it could get interesting.

If it weren't for the Raiders, I would have a hard time seeing anybody projecting him as an NFL quarterback. If Al Davis is locked safely in his crypt, and NFL teams don't like the thought of taking on a big-time project at WR in an abbreviated season, I wouldn't be surprised if he went in the 7th or didn't get chosen in the supplemental draft at all.

JoeJoeBrown
06-01-2011, 06:00 PM
A post like this without a token Raiders mention is a travesty (sorry). If they liked Kaepernick, no reason not to spend a 3rd-4th rounder on Pryor. Toss in the fact that I would bet some teams would ask him to work out at WR, it could get interesting.

Shane, what is C-Bus like wrt all of the poo hitting the fan?

niel89
06-01-2011, 07:01 PM
5th rounder at the max. He just isn't that good of a player and all these Ohio st troubles don't add to his value. Yes Pryor has great athletic ability but he isn't nearly the QB Kaepernick or Newton were.

wicket
06-01-2011, 07:24 PM
^Newton is a better football player, athlete, and QB in every way imaginable. Pryor's release is so slow, his final pass attempt still hasn't left his fingers yet.

not sure about the athlete part but the rest is correct

underscore
06-01-2011, 08:54 PM
Is Pryor even open to playing another position? If he says 'no', that also hurts him.

Complex
06-01-2011, 09:10 PM
Is Pryor even open to playing another position? If he says 'no', that also hurts him.

Then he has join the UFL or AFL.

Shane P. Hallam
06-01-2011, 10:08 PM
Shane, what is C-Bus like wrt all of the poo hitting the fan?

Beats me, I'm in Pittsburgh.

Halsey
06-01-2011, 10:29 PM
Pryor is not NFL QB material. I thought that maybe he'd develop enough to be worth a team taking a shot at him, but he's not an NFL quality passer and he has maturity and character questions. He might as well do whatever NFL teams want or he'll have a short NFL career.

CrankthatCrabtree
06-01-2011, 10:29 PM
Pryor to the Roughriders!!!!

ellsy82
06-01-2011, 10:44 PM
Wouldn't be a bad move from him if he wants to make some quick coin. Rookie wage scale will probably be less than what he'd make in the 2011 season as an undrafted free agent (I kid...or do I?).

PossibleCabbage
06-01-2011, 11:24 PM
Pryor to the Roughriders!!!!

He does have the makings of a darn good CFL quarterback, might not be the worst career move for him. He can get into a CFL camp, get paid for the next year, and try to hook on to an NFL team after this labor mess is done and he'll avoid any messy court fight about the legitimacy of the supplemental draft.

TACKLE
06-01-2011, 11:27 PM
He does have the makings of a darn good CFL quarterback, might not be the worst career move for him.

Ummm CFL QB's need to be able to pass.

GaMeTiMe
06-02-2011, 01:15 AM
Not sure whatever team he goes to (if any?) has him active on game days. I don't think he necessarily goes to a 'QB-needy team'.

Saints-Tigers
06-02-2011, 03:07 AM
Saints should take him late, try having Drew Brees, Sean Payton, Pete Carmichael and Chase Daniel tutor him. If he can't develop his skills as a passer with them, there is 0 hope.

jnew76
06-02-2011, 03:19 AM
Pryor is a receiving TE/hybrid WR if anything in the NFL. Split him out in the red zone... Have him work the middle on passing downs between the 20's.

Duffman57
06-02-2011, 04:18 AM
Terrelle Pryor = Matt Jones - Coke

Its a brilliant math equation.

roscoesdad27
06-02-2011, 07:25 AM
buffalo would be best for pryor.....i wouldn't give more than a 3rd if i igot in a bidding war thou.

Shane P. Hallam
06-02-2011, 07:39 AM
buffalo would be best for pryor.....i wouldn't give more than a 3rd if i igot in a bidding war thou.

There is no bidding war in a supplemental draft. You submit which round pick you would use on a specific player and if no one bid higher than you, you get him.

PossibleCabbage
06-02-2011, 11:59 AM
There is no bidding war in a supplemental draft. You submit which round pick you would use on a specific player and if no one bid higher than you, you get him.

And priority within a given round (if, say, two teams indicate that they would use the same round pick on a player) is determined by a weighted lottery system of some kind where the teams with ≤6 wins go first in some order, the teams with >6 wins but didn't make the playoffs go next, and the teams who made the playoffs are the final group. I don't honestly know if teams are told where they rank in the "supplemental draft order" beyond what group they're in.

Shane P. Hallam
06-02-2011, 12:17 PM
And priority within a given round (if, say, two teams indicate that they would use the same round pick on a player) is determined by a weighted lottery system of some kind where the teams with ≤6 wins go first in some order, the teams with >6 wins but didn't make the playoffs go next, and the teams who made the playoffs are the final group. I don't honestly know if teams are told where they rank in the "supplemental draft order" beyond what group they're in.

They are not, so you have to take that risk, thus why most only end up as lower round picks.

D-Unit
06-02-2011, 12:27 PM
I don't think he'll have a better career than Troy Smith. I think he's tailor made for being a successful college QB, but I don't think he translates well to the NFL.

...that said, the NFL seems to be changing, so we'll see. If I was desperate for a QB, I'd offer up a 7th round pick in the supplemental draft, but if I had to make a prediction, I'd say some team gives up a 4th, if he were to enter.

JoeJoeBrown
06-02-2011, 01:27 PM
I don't think he'll have a better career than Troy Smith. I think he's tailor made for being a successful college QB, but I don't think he translates well to the NFL.

...that said, the NFL seems to be changing, so we'll see. If I was desperate for a QB, I'd offer up a 7th round pick in the supplemental draft, but if I had to make a prediction, I'd say some team gives up a 4th, if he were to enter.

I think 4th or 5th is likely. Some team will fall in love with his measurables.

He's a pretty freaky athlete, so some team may try to convert him to another position, offense or defense.

MI_Buckeye
06-02-2011, 01:36 PM
I will say that I think he would have been an absolute lock to go in the first round (probably top ten) if his tattoo artist didnt deal drugs. He was going to have an absolute monster of a senior season, and with all of his physical tools, his struggles at the beginning of his career would be all but forgotten.

Now, I would be shocked if he didnt end up a Raider if he went in the supplemental draft. I think they might be willing to spend as high as a second round pick on Pryor, with the third round being more likely.

Caulibflower
06-02-2011, 03:33 PM
4th or 5th sounds about right for a supplemental draft pick. He's a pretty crazy athlete, and that's what teams are going to draft him as. Smart teams aren't going to say "He's a quarterback" or "he's a receiver" until they bring him in and actually work with him. He's going to be given looks in different situations and positions wherever he ends up. There are at least a few teams who'd part with a 4th to bring in an a player with elite measurables and try him out.

devinhester=R.O.Y 2006
06-02-2011, 04:22 PM
All this Pryor talk has got me thinking about how different his life could be if he went on to play college basketball rather than football. He was a stud in basketball too right?

Duffman57
06-02-2011, 04:24 PM
All this Pryor talk has got me thinking about how different his life could be if he went on to play college basketball rather than football. He was a stud in basketball too right?

Yah, or you could think about what he would've been if he went to oregon ;)

PoopSandwich
06-02-2011, 05:10 PM
If someone drafts Pryor to play QB I have no idea what the hell they are thinking.

Rabscuttle
06-02-2011, 05:17 PM
Yah, or you could think about what he would've been if he went to oregon ;)

I believe the term is inmate.

shylo3716
06-02-2011, 05:23 PM
Pryor + Driving Nissan 350Z - No L's = No chance in hell he comes back

gpngc
06-02-2011, 05:25 PM
I'd be way more surprised to hear someone gave up a 5th for him than to hear he wasn't selected at all. I'd guess a 7th. To Seattle.

Iamcanadian
06-02-2011, 07:34 PM
I think most of you are way underestimating Pryor as a prospect. With a very good season, he could have gone in late round 1 and I suspect if he declares for the supplemental, some team may well spend a 2nd rounder on him. Worst case scenario would be round 3.
He is still a great athlete with tremendous size who IMO, picked the wrong school to develop his QBing talents. He has a substantial upside with proper development and could someday be a starting QB in the NFL.

SchizophrenicBatman
06-02-2011, 07:58 PM
All this Pryor talk has got me thinking about how different his life could be if he went on to play college basketball rather than football. He was a stud in basketball too right?

eh, he was a good prospect but not a lock stud if he played bball. i'm sure you could make an argument that if he gave up football that he'd probably be even better but that isn't necessarily always the case

considering his size and athleticism it's possible he'd make the nba but for every 6'6 guy who can run and jump that makes it there are 10 that end up playing in israel or austrailia

gpngc
06-02-2011, 08:09 PM
I think most of you are way underestimating Pryor as a prospect. With a very good season, he could have gone in late round 1 and I suspect if he declares for the supplemental, some team may well spend a 2nd rounder on him. Worst case scenario would be round 3.
He is still a great athlete with tremendous size who IMO, picked the wrong school to develop his QBing talents. He has a substantial upside with proper development and could someday be a starting QB in the NFL.

-Slow release
-Erratic accuracy
-Looks to run way too quickly
-As many off-field issues as he's owned cars

+Can throw it over dem mountains
+Big
+Athletic
+Made an amazing catch once

He might be Adrian McPherson.

JoeJoeBrown
06-02-2011, 08:35 PM
I believe the term is inmate.

LaTerrelle Pryor.

PhinsRock
06-02-2011, 10:28 PM
He's not an NFL QB and is a dumb/punk kid. I doubt anybody spends more than a 6th round pick.

JeffSamardzijaIRISH
06-02-2011, 11:01 PM
Wow, I didn't know TP had a 65% completion rating this year. I didn't watch him much, was this because of easy throws? He has some nice throws in his youtube highlight video.

FTRWRTR
06-03-2011, 11:34 AM
I think most of you are way underestimating Pryor as a prospect. With a very good season, he could have gone in late round 1 and I suspect if he declares for the supplemental, some team may well spend a 2nd rounder on him. Worst case scenario would be round 3.
He is still a great athlete with tremendous size who IMO, picked the wrong school to develop his QBing talents. He has a substantial upside with proper development and could someday be a starting QB in the NFL.I agree, I don't think he'll work out as a pro regardless of what position he plays but the NFL loves athletic talent. I can't see him going later than the 4th, and IMO this talk of him not being drafted is just insane.

Malaka
06-03-2011, 03:21 PM
Didn't Jarmon for the Redskins go in the third of the supplemental draft?

If so then I think Pryor easily goes in round three. A team will no doubt take a chance on him, especially if he is okay with toying with other positions. Matt Jones was a first rounder, and Pat White was a 2nd round pick while not being too accepting of a switch to wide receiver. I have no doubt Pryor will be at the very least a third round pick; he is not only a better athlete but also a better football player than the two guys I mentioned. Some team is gonna bite.

nobodyinparticular
06-03-2011, 07:39 PM
If I were a team, I would tag him with my 1st rounder in the supplemental. Why? Because I know he would make an incredible FS/DE hybrid and I want to make sure I get him.

I mean, really, it would be the perfect fit. As a FS/DE hybrid, he is able to use his knowledge of the QB position against the QBs. So when you need a pick, you put him at FS. When you need a sack, you put him at DE. Win/win situation. Ba-da-bing ba-da-boom, you have an All-Pro at 2 positions. I might work him in at MLB too.

A Perfect Score
06-03-2011, 08:30 PM
-Slow release
-Erratic accuracy
-Looks to run way too quickly
-As many off-field issues as he's owned cars

+Can throw it over dem mountains
+Big
+Athletic
+Made an amazing catch once

He might be Adrian McPherson.

Now THERE is a name I haven't heard in a while. Remember when he lined up under the guard instead of the center? Genius.

A Perfect Score
06-03-2011, 08:31 PM
-Slow release
-Erratic accuracy
-Looks to run way too quickly
-As many off-field issues as he's owned cars

+Can throw it over dem mountains
+Big
+Athletic
+Made an amazing catch once

He might be Adrian McPherson.

Now THERE is a name I haven't heard in a while. Remember when he lined up under the guard instead of the center? Genius.

SativaDominant
06-03-2011, 08:52 PM
If I were a team, I would tag him with my 1st rounder in the supplemental. Why? Because I know he would make an incredible FS/DE hybrid and I want to make sure I get him.

I mean, really, it would be the perfect fit. As a FS/DE hybrid, he is able to use his knowledge of the QB position against the QBs. So when you need a pick, you put him at FS. When you need a sack, you put him at DE. Win/win situation. Ba-da-bing ba-da-boom, you have an All-Pro at 2 positions. I might work him in at MLB too.

Think about what you just said.

TACKLE
06-03-2011, 08:56 PM
i think you're overestimating his knowledge of the qb position, nip.

that didn't stop the great juice williams from becoming a pass rush phenom.

A Perfect Score
06-03-2011, 09:12 PM
that didn't stop the great juice williams from becoming a pass rush phenom.

You're just jealous because Juice knows what the QB is thinking and you dont.

Saints-Tigers
06-03-2011, 09:22 PM
That's one meme that might never get old.

TACKLE
06-03-2011, 09:26 PM
You're just jealous because Juice knows what the QB is thinking and you dont.

o rly?

how can you be the judge of that when bce can read and identify coverages better than you can?

A Perfect Score
06-04-2011, 01:45 AM
o rly?

how can you be the judge of that when bce can read and identify coverages better than you can?

I'm sorry, I forgot that you can't play man and zone in the same play. That whole Cover 2 man business was just a conspiracy made up by us crazies to disprove the fact that Ike Taylor is the best cover CB of this or any other decade.

Caulibflower
06-04-2011, 03:11 AM
From Adrian McPherson's Wikipedia page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adrian_McPherson) :

"Passed for 31,728 yards and 216 touchdowns while rushing for 1,065 yards and eight scores as a senior at southwest."

Sad story with that kid, though.

batsandgats
06-04-2011, 09:01 AM
that has to be some kind of single season record haha

I think getting hit with that golf cart is what did him in though, but hes still making money as a backup in the CFL.

underscore
06-04-2011, 09:22 AM
Is Pryor even eligible for the supplemental draft, short of the NCAA declaring him ineligible for 2011?

FTRWRTR
06-04-2011, 12:29 PM
Is Pryor even eligible for the supplemental draft, short of the NCAA declaring him ineligible for 2011?The NCAA and NFL are two separte entities and what the NCAA does has no effect on what the NFL does. I suspect you think a college football player can't come out until three years after his HS graduation because of the NCAA. That's not the case, that's the way the NFL wants it so that's the way it is. Anyway to answer your question, yes, pryor can enter the supp. draft if he wants.

diabsoule
06-04-2011, 01:12 PM
I was listening to Mel Kiper this morning and he said that he sees Pryor as a developmental TE

FTRWRTR
06-04-2011, 01:18 PM
I was listening to Mel Kiper this morning and he said that he sees Pryor as a developmental TELOL, he said the same thing about Tebow. He must like turning players with questionable qb skills into te's.

Caulibflower
06-04-2011, 02:21 PM
I was listening to Mel Kiper this morning and he said that he sees Pryor as a developmental TE

Remember that LeBron commercial a couple years ago with him wearing a Browns uniform? That's what Pryor would look like walking through the tunnel. I think he's a big receiver, whether he's listed at TE or WR.

PossibleCabbage
06-04-2011, 02:36 PM
LOL, he said the same thing about Tebow. He must like turning players with questionable qb skills into te's.

We still haven't ruled out that Tebow wouldn't be better off as a TE. "Drafted by Josh McDaniels" is not exactly a ringing endorsement of a player. For all we know, Kiper was right, time will tell.

Caulibflower
06-04-2011, 02:41 PM
We still haven't ruled out that Tebow wouldn't be better off as a TE. "Drafted by Josh McDaniels" is not exactly a ringing endorsement of a player. For all we know, Kiper was right, time will tell.

It wasn't who McDaniels drafted that pissed people off, it's who he cut.

PossibleCabbage
06-04-2011, 02:46 PM
It wasn't who McDaniels drafted that pissed people off, it's who he cut.

It's kind of a combination of the two isn't it? He did go through five first round picks in two years and the early returns are not good on any of these guys (one of them got traded away for a sophomore 7th round pick after his rookie season!)

If you trade your good players for picks, and use those picks to select good players then that's fine. The problem is when you trade good players for picks and fail to make good use of those picks.

I think McDaniels's "torpedo the Broncos" campaign was fought on every front.

niel89
06-04-2011, 03:03 PM
Developmental TE? Throw 50lbs on him and try him at tackle!

Caulibflower
06-04-2011, 03:17 PM
It's kind of a combination of the two isn't it? He did go through five first round picks in two years and the early returns are not good on any of these guys (one of them got traded away for a sophomore 7th round pick after his rookie season!)

If you trade your good players for picks, and use those picks to select good players then that's fine. The problem is when you trade good players for picks and fail to make good use of those picks.

I think McDaniels's "torpedo the Broncos" campaign was fought on every front.

I guess he did pick Robert Ayers too, didn't he...

PossibleCabbage
06-04-2011, 03:26 PM
I guess he did pick Robert Ayers too, didn't he...

Yeah, and he also traded what would turn out to be the #14 pick in the 2010 draft for the 2009 2nd round pick used to select Alphonso Smith, who was traded to Detroit after a single year for Dan Gronkowski. Every part of that is baffling.

Roddoliver
06-05-2011, 01:05 AM
And what should Clausen be? A punter?

Caulibflower
06-05-2011, 02:42 AM
And what should Clausen be? A punter?

Profiles more as a... cut.

underscore
06-05-2011, 07:10 AM
The NCAA and NFL are two separte entities and what the NCAA does has no effect on what the NFL does. I suspect you think a college football player can't come out until three years after his HS graduation because of the NCAA. That's not the case, that's the way the NFL wants it so that's the way it is. Anyway to answer your question, yes, pryor can enter the supp. draft if he wants.

I'm well aware of the difference between the NCAA and NFL. I was thinking exactly as I had said. I thought there had to be some sort of "change in status" from the time the window passed to declare for the draft to the supplemental draft:

http://www.cleveland.com/buckeyeblog/index.ssf/2011/04/on_the_terrelle_pryor_to_the_n.html

Pryor's status hasn't changed since the original draft date and likely won't before the supplemental draft.

Shane P. Hallam
06-05-2011, 08:28 AM
I'm well aware of the difference between the NCAA and NFL. I was thinking exactly as I had said. I thought there had to be some sort of "change in status" from the time the window passed to declare for the draft to the supplemental draft:

http://www.cleveland.com/buckeyeblog/index.ssf/2011/04/on_the_terrelle_pryor_to_the_n.html

Pryor's status hasn't changed since the original draft date and likely won't before the supplemental draft.

Sure it has, he lost his coach. I'd bet that would be enough of a change for the NFL...

FTRWRTR
06-05-2011, 09:49 AM
it was both. he was a horrible evaluator of talent in his first draft.

then again, the entire scouting world thought moreno was worth a first round pick (or had talent, or wasn't one of the most worthless running back prospects i can remember seeing), so i can only blame josh so much for that.The average for NFL rbs is 4.0 yards per carry, moreno averaged 4.3 last year. I hope Denver is dumb enough to get rid of him. It would be like hillis all over again.

batsandgats
06-05-2011, 02:38 PM
Moreno has had 2 100 yard rushing games in 2 years, both against the Chiefs. He averaged 4.3 with a decreased workload, with over 200 attempts his rookie season he averaged 3.8. Its not exactly worthy of being picked in the first round. No 1,000 yard seasons, 4 ypc for career, yes that is the average for backs, but do you draft a back in the 1st to be average?

J255979-11nine
06-05-2011, 03:54 PM
Moreno has had 2 100 yard rushing games in 2 years, both against the Chiefs. He averaged 4.3 with a decreased workload, with over 200 attempts his rookie season he averaged 3.8. Its not exactly worthy of being picked in the first round. No 1,000 yard seasons, 4 ypc for career, yes that is the average for backs, but do you draft a back in the 1st to be average?

Moreno's average stats are terribly misleading. He has no game breaking ability and has possibly the worst vision of any starting running back in the NFL.

A Perfect Score
06-05-2011, 04:49 PM
And it isn't like it was a late first round pick McD spent on Moreno. Top 12 picks shouldn't be spent on RBs regardless, unless they're something extremely special.

PossibleCabbage
06-05-2011, 07:13 PM
The average for NFL rbs is 4.0 yards per carry, moreno averaged 4.3 last year. I hope Denver is dumb enough to get rid of him. It would be like hillis all over again.

The primary use of the yards/carry statistic is "if it's bad, you're not good" not "if it's good, you're good" since it's very unreliable when you're talking about a small number of carries. 182 rushing attempts and a 4.3 isn't all that impressive, since if he was as good as the 4.3 might suggest he'd see more than 182 carries.

Moreno isn't terrible, but he isn't much better than average, and "average" at a non-premium position is a poor use of a top 12 pick.

Shane P. Hallam
06-05-2011, 07:36 PM
Errr...how did this turn into a Moreno thread again?

PossibleCabbage
06-05-2011, 07:43 PM
Errr...how did this turn into a Moreno thread again?

Four steps:

1) Mel Kiper says on the radio that he sees Pryor as a developmental TE.
2) "Yeah, but Kiper said the same thing about Tebow."
3) "The book hasn't been written on Tebow yet, most of what he has accomplished was 'getting drafted by McDaniels' who was a suspect evaluator of talent."
4) Discussion of the demerits of Josh McDaniels draft choices other than Tebow.

Shane P. Hallam
06-05-2011, 07:47 PM
again? do terrelle pryor discussion have a history of turning into knowshon moreno discussion? or was that a clarifying 'again'?

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/again

I'm thinking #3.

K Train
06-06-2011, 12:11 PM
pryor should have stuck to basketball.

4th round seems likely, but thats just a team that wants to make sure they get him.

FTRWRTR
06-06-2011, 01:25 PM
Errr...how did this turn into a Moreno thread again?Fair enough. I apologize for taking us off topic.

jrdrylie
06-07-2011, 04:51 PM
According to some reports, Pryor is leaving Ohio State. Not sure if this means Supplemental Draft or not. It probably does.

underscore
06-07-2011, 04:52 PM
News of Pryor leaving OSU is making the twitter rounds

JRTPlaya21
06-07-2011, 05:06 PM
pryor should have stuck to basketball.

4th round seems likely, but thats just a team that wants to make sure they get him.

Yessir. Basketball he coulda been the next O.J. Mayo instead of Reggie Bush haha.

SolidGold
06-07-2011, 05:29 PM
Its on ESPN as breaking news...wonder who takes him

YAYareaRB
06-07-2011, 05:35 PM
Pryor is gonna go to my school and play his last year hahahah nah but that would be awesome

Rabscuttle
06-07-2011, 05:41 PM
At least the short people that had to see around him in class won't have that issue any more....

RaiderNation
06-07-2011, 06:03 PM
Well I guess it's not a matter of if anymore, as he just entered th supplemental draft. I expect atleast 1 more Buckeye to follow Pryor.

King Carls 5 Year Plan
06-07-2011, 06:29 PM
putting his name into the supplemental draft isn't a terrible idea. it beats sitting out 5 games. at least this way he can be with an NFL team holding a clipboard for a few seasons to get him ready.

SolidGold
06-07-2011, 06:51 PM
putting his name into the supplemental draft isn't a terrible idea. it beats sitting out 5 games. at least this way he can be with an NFL team holding a clipboard for a few seasons to get him ready.

Get him ready for what? he isn't an NFL QB

PossibleCabbage
06-07-2011, 07:03 PM
Well I guess it's not a matter of if anymore, as he just entered th supplemental draft. I expect atleast 1 more Buckeye to follow Pryor.

All I heard was that he is done at tOSU, not that he has decided to enter the supplemental draft (as those are different). He could always drop down to FCS, try to hook on with a CFL team, or sue the NFL to become a free agent instead of declaring for the supplemental draft.

Do you have a link to anything that said he declared?

Nalej
06-07-2011, 07:18 PM
James said entering the next NFL supplemental draft is Pryor's "desire." But James acknowledged labor uncertainty could lead to consideration of the Canadian Football League or working with a personal quarterback coach first.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=6636768

underscore
06-07-2011, 08:12 PM
UFL for Pryor!

PossibleCabbage
06-07-2011, 08:59 PM
UFL for Pryor!

CFL is a better destination. It's a better quality of football, there's history of successful CFL QBs coming to the NFL and being effective, and the specific game they play in is very friendly to mobile quarterbacks. He's probably not up to snuff as a CFL passer with his mechanics/accuracy, but I wouldn't put it past him starting in the CFL this year.

bucfan12
06-07-2011, 09:43 PM
Honestly, being from PA and watching him a few games in HS and his freshman year at Ohio State, I think a switch to WR is possible. He's 6'5, 6'6, and has 4.4-4.5 speed. He was split out wide a few times his freshman year and played showed some nice reciever skills in HS and College before he took over as full time starter at Ohio State.

He will NEVER be an NFL QB, but he's too talented not to be drafted and tried out at WR. not saying he's an elite type of WR, but why not spend a 6th rounder and try him out there?

shylo3716
06-07-2011, 09:54 PM
Terrelle Pryor = Idiot! How You Just Now Decide You Want To Forgo Your Sr. Year.......should Have Been Declared

niel89
06-07-2011, 10:34 PM
I'm glad he is going now and some team will only waste a 4th or a 5th instead of a 1st or 2nd later.

gpngc
06-07-2011, 11:15 PM
I'm glad he is going now and some team will only waste a 4th or a 5th instead of a 1st or 2nd later.

I highly doubt anyone gives up a 4th. A 6th or 7th is more likely.

keylime_5
06-07-2011, 11:41 PM
Terrelle Pryor = Idiot! How You Just Now Decide You Want To Forgo Your Sr. Year.......should Have Been Declared

funny how he leaves Ohio State the day before an article is published that features one of his friends telling the world that Pryor signed autographs for thousands of dollars in exchange.

LonghornsLegend
06-07-2011, 11:48 PM
I highly doubt anyone gives up a 4th. A 6th or 7th is more likely.

Yea I'd be shocked if anyone gives up more. But now that I'm about to make a joke about how Oakland will if he times well, I don't think it would be crazy to expect old Al to not take him.

Caulibflower
06-08-2011, 01:28 AM
Had a thought: what would people think of Pryor if he'd decided not to play football, and instead only played basketball at OSU? Say he has a mediocre career, knows he's not going pro, and so decides to start playing football. I have to say it seems more than possible that he could've had a better statistical season than Jimmy Graham did in his one season at tight end for Miami. We already know Pryor is a dangerous open field runner - again, certainly more dangerous than Graham. So as a pure athlete, and obviously in some respects already a player who looks like he can hack it in the NFL, it seems like, per precedent (Graham picked in the third), it seems like Pryor would be at least as coveted as Graham. That might sound like some strange logic, but it makes sense to me.

Edit: this is basically assuming Pryor is being looked at as a potential ATH/TE, and isn't unequivocally committed to being listed as "QB" on the roster. Well... obviously, given my hypothetical premise was that he'd never played QB. Eh. Work with me.

jayceheathman
06-08-2011, 02:46 AM
If Chicago took him with a 7th, I wouldn't be pissed because we really need a tall receiver. But there is no way he falls that far.

Some team will likely use a 4th and maybe even a 3rd rounder after he destroys the offseason workouts. If Cam Newton can go first overall, I don't see a reason why a team can't spend a mid round pick on Pryor.

Pryor would still throw less picks than Cutler if you put him at QB. :)

Shane P. Hallam
06-08-2011, 06:29 AM
I'll be VERY surprised if he goes later than the 5th. Some scouts even considered him as a late 1st round prospect before the declaration deadline. Teams may see him as a Colin Kaepernick type of talent maybe without the work ethic. If I had to guess I would say 4th round to Oakland.

I'll still hold that he should work out at WR and would like to see it, but I doubt it happens.

DiG
06-08-2011, 07:41 AM
I'm with you Shane. I'd love to at least see what he looks like running some WR drills. Also dont see how he last past rd 5 at the latest.

K Train
06-08-2011, 08:13 AM
Yessir. Basketball he coulda been the next O.J. Mayo instead of Reggie Bush haha.

he was so sick as a basketball player, hed easily have NBA potential (much higher success chance than the NFL for him) if he stuck with it

SolidGold
06-08-2011, 09:27 AM
I'll be VERY surprised if he goes later than the 5th. Some scouts even considered him as a late 1st round prospect before the declaration deadline. Teams may see him as a Colin Kaepernick type of talent maybe without the work ethic. If I had to guess I would say 4th round to Oakland.

I'll still hold that he should work out at WR and would like to see it, but I doubt it happens.

Good thing he didn't come out than because those scouts would be out of a job if they thought that highly of him. He was a very good college qb but his release was so deliberate and long, he did not have the velocity on the ball and his accuracy was shoddy. He played in a very conservative offense...Tressel liked running the ball and relying on his defense more than putting the ball in Pryor's hands IMO. Glorified "game manager"

Shane P. Hallam
06-08-2011, 09:36 AM
Good thing he didn't come out than because those scouts would be out of a job if they thought that highly of him. He was a very good college qb but his release was so deliberate and long, he did not have the velocity on the ball and his accuracy was shoddy. He played in a very conservative offense...Tressel liked running the ball and relying on his defense more than putting the ball in Pryor's hands IMO. Glorified "game manager"

It is about that physical upside that he brings. What we believe and what NFL teams believe will be different in this case. Most of us see a player who struggled at the QB position. Many other teams see Cam Newton type of upside for a player at the most significant position in football today.

FTRWRTR
06-08-2011, 12:23 PM
I highly doubt anyone gives up a 4th. A 6th or 7th is more likely.

With the blind bidding format, I definitely don't see a team waiting that long. Also put it like this, cam newton was the first pick in the first round despite all the questions about whether or not he can be a productive NFL qb. There isn't a five or six round difference between newton and pryor.

nobodyinparticular
06-08-2011, 12:53 PM
With the blind bidding format, I definitely don't see a team waiting that long. Also put it like this, cam newton was the first pick in the first round despite all the questions about whether or not he can be a productive NFL qb. There isn't a five or six round difference between newton and pryor.

Apart from COLOSSAL bust Brian Bosworth and NFL great Bernie Kosar, the blind bidding actually drives DOWN the value on these players. Most of the time you will have guys who go 4th and below. I expect the same with Pryor.

nobodyinparticular
06-08-2011, 12:54 PM
I'll be VERY surprised if he goes later than the 5th. Some scouts even considered him as a late 1st round prospect before the declaration deadline. Teams may see him as a Colin Kaepernick type of talent maybe without the work ethic. If I had to guess I would say 4th round to Oakland.

I'll still hold that he should work out at WR and would like to see it, but I doubt it happens.

The Raiders haven't taken a player in the supplemental draft since it was instituted in 1971. I'm not going to say Pryor won't be a Raider via the supp draft, but I would certainly be surprised if he is drafted by Oakland.

Shane P. Hallam
06-08-2011, 01:05 PM
The Raiders haven't taken a player in the supplemental draft since it was instituted in 1971. I'm not going to say Pryor won't be a Raider via the supp draft, but I would certainly be surprised if he is drafted by Oakland.

The first supplemental draft was in 1977. The Bears had not used one until last year either.

FTRWRTR
06-08-2011, 02:23 PM
Apart from COLOSSAL bust Brian Bosworth and NFL great Bernie Kosar, the blind bidding actually drives DOWN the value on these players. Most of the time you will have guys who go 4th and below.That's wrong...of the 40 players taken in the supp. draft, 21 have gone in the first four rounds:

http://drafthistory.com/supplemental/supplemental-drafts.html

Monomach
06-08-2011, 03:10 PM
The first supplemental draft was in 1977. The Bears had not used one until last year either.

...but that was a seventh rounder for a guy who is a much safer bet to contribute in the NFL.

I don't see Pryor as an NFL QB. If I'm a GM, I look at him and hope I can turn him into Vincent Jackson.

So...project player being trained from the beginning at a new position with a history of character concerns? That's what sixth and seventh round picks were made for.

K Train
06-08-2011, 03:44 PM
i refuse to look at taking gifts as character concerns, thats 1) a stupid rule 2) the schools fault and 3) something everyone with a brain would do if given the chance....play for free, have to "go to school" (i say that lightly) and not get paid for making your school and the NCAA money, id take everything i could get.

I think pryor is a terrible QB prospect, an interesting WR/TE prospect, an amazing basketball player, dumb as a rock, an asshole by societies standards....but character concerns might be a bit of a reach.

i "met" (more like was in the area) him at a bar at penn state once (we were both 19 and he had like a body guard and was getting people kicked out at his will) and the dude is a total douche, but i think actual legitimate character concerns arent his problem....its being a pampered athlete his whole life and a man among boys in any sport hes played to the point where he didnt have to polish himself or tighten up his game at all.....its gonna remain to be seen if he can do that at this point and that largely depends on where he goes, what they want to do with him, and if hes willing to actually do it (ie workout as a WR).

cant deny how great of an athlete he is though, and im not sure id say harvey unga in the 7th is a better bet than pryor in the 4th, actually im positive i wouldnt say that...id take pryor in the 4th, not like a 4th round pick is gonna devestate your franchise if you miss on him

underscore
06-08-2011, 03:54 PM
i refuse to look at taking gifts as character concerns, thats 1) a stupid rule 2) the schools fault and 3) something everyone with a brain would do if given the chance....play for free, have to "go to school" (i say that lightly) and not get paid for making your school and the NCAA money, id take everything i could get.


Pryor's issues go way, way beyond simply taking gifts.

K Train
06-08-2011, 04:13 PM
still as far as i know hes not drug addict, a murderer, a women beater, or any major "character concerns" that typically derail a career. please correct me if im wrong but his character concerns arent that serious compared to others weve seen get drafted much higher and fall much harder.

i think the biggest problem he'll have is how dumb he is...jmo, but starting in the 4th round the reward begins to outweigh the risk by a large margin

Monomach
06-08-2011, 04:14 PM
cant deny how great of an athlete he is though, and im not sure id say harvey unga in the 7th is a better bet than pryor in the 4th, actually im positive i wouldnt say that...id take pryor in the 4th, not like a 4th round pick is gonna devestate your franchise if you miss on him

So we have:
1) A big, physical running back with zero character concerns in one of the last picks of the draft.
vs

2) A mid-round pick on a dickhead/diva wide receiver who has to be taught from scratch how to play his position. Also, we're talking about a guy who was being publicly investigated for accepting money, goods, and services under the table and who chose to still pull up to school in front of the news cameras in yet another new car, which probably adds "dumb as a crap-covered rock" to the list of concerns.

I really don't understand how #2 can in any way be a better bet than #1.

Shane P. Hallam
06-08-2011, 04:17 PM
Big physical RBs are a dime a dozen. A height, weight, speed combo like Pryor isn't and that is what NFL GMs want to take a shot at. We can gladly make some type of wager, he will go Rounds 1-5.

Monomach
06-08-2011, 04:23 PM
Big physical RBs are a dime a dozen. A height, weight, speed combo like Pryor isn't and that is what NFL GMs want to take a shot at. We can gladly make some type of wager, he will go Rounds 1-5.

Yes. Big, physical RBs are a dime a dozen. That's why a seventh round pick is a perfect safe and reasonable place to take one.

Height/weight/speed combos like Pryor's are also a dime a dozen. It's that combo with skills at playing the position that is rare. The combo itself can be found all over the college sports world. You could walk into any II-A basketball program and grab a few of those guys to try to teach to play receiver. It's not like Pryor has significantly more experience at it than they do.

As an added bonus, you can grab only the ones who aren't a-holes with suspect judgement.

phlysac
06-08-2011, 04:39 PM
I loosely compare Terrelle Pryor as a combination of Cam Newton, Colin Kaepernick, and Jerrod Johnson. 1st Overall, 2nd Round, and UDFA. Pryor will also likely be drafted as a combination of those players as well. 4-6 IMO

Bob Sanders Dreadlock
06-08-2011, 05:15 PM
If he goes udrafted in the supplemental, or there is not a supplemental is he free to join any NFL that will take him?

niel89
06-08-2011, 05:34 PM
Yeah if he goes undrafted he should just be a UDFA.

It only takes one team to make a guy a 1st/2nd rounder. I personally wouldn't use a pick before round 6 but some one out there will reach for an athlete like Pryor.

Shane P. Hallam
06-08-2011, 08:18 PM
Height/weight/speed combos like Pryor's are also a dime a dozen. It's that combo with skills at playing the position that is rare. The combo itself can be found all over the college sports world. You could walk into any II-A basketball program and grab a few of those guys to try to teach to play receiver. It's not like Pryor has significantly more experience at it than they do.

Other than playing it in HS at times and during plays in college.

Caulibflower
06-08-2011, 09:24 PM
I'm reading an article about the Saskatchewan Roughriders having the rights to sign Pryor to the CFL. He was already going to play another year of football "without pay" before the 2011 draft, so it might actually be a good idea to try to get on a CFL team that will let him play some quarterback, and use it as a paid audition for the NFL. It'd be interesting to see what the CFL would pay him for one year, versus what he'd make as, say, a 4th-round supplemental pick.

gpngc
06-08-2011, 10:56 PM
Big physical RBs are a dime a dozen. A height, weight, speed combo like Pryor isn't and that is what NFL GMs want to take a shot at. We can gladly make some type of wager, he will go Rounds 1-5.

I'll wager.

I say under 5th or not at all.

If he was actually regarded as a legit NFL prospect, why all the CFL and UFL rumors?

He's not in the same stratosphere as Cam Newton.

And if he somehow goes in the 5th, the team that drafts him will view him as a WR, guaranteed. That's his only chance - someone goes for Matt Jones again.

As a QB, he's simply not NFL-caliber and I think NFL teams will see that.

jayceheathman
06-09-2011, 04:14 AM
Big physical RBs are a dime a dozen. A height, weight, speed combo like Pryor isn't and that is what NFL GMs want to take a shot at. We can gladly make some type of wager, he will go Rounds 1-5.

I will take that bet too. What do you want to wager? An avatar or sig bet perhaps?

Shane P. Hallam
06-09-2011, 06:07 AM
I would do that, but chances are good I'd be too lazy to come up with something. You can gladly own me in this thread if that is the case :)

K Train
06-09-2011, 08:13 AM
yeah, i'd totally risk my entire playing career for a few dollars that i'll get in a couple of years anyways. that makes perfect sense. it's not an abysmal lack of judgement from a player who purportedly plays a position in which making good decisions is of vital importance. 'having a brain', interesting choice of words.

not all players get a couple of dollars in a few years from a pro football standpoint, even though the ones that are probably have a future in the pros im not sure its "risking their entire playing career"...it hurts the school, but guys like reggie bush and derrick rose laughed all the way to the bank. schools are the ones that are getting hurt, but really the schools are the ones breaking the rules as well.

and deciding on whether to throw into a tight window in double coverage and deciding whether to accept free tattoos are a little different, i love when people just make football out to be real life

K Train
06-09-2011, 11:20 AM
i can't respond to this until i can read it. i think you're saying that players aren't at risk, but the schools are? *shrug* if i'm a player, i'm not risking potential millions for a new car in college. today, the ncaa seems to be unconcerned with its image. tomorrow they may decide to enforce their actual rules. why is this worth risking? because 'whoa is me, they're only paying for my education, my housing, my food and all of my future job training for 3 or so years, meanwhile doing everything they can to market me as widely as possible to as many employers as humanly possible'? that's absolutely idiotic
you really think they are doing everything they possibly can to market these players to their potential employers? well you are wrong. if that was the case tebow would have played TE, pryor and dennard robinson would be playing WR, but the schools could care less what might be best for their long term future as a pro player and maximizing their potential if they are winning college games.

and the school might be giving pryor an education but you do you really think most of these guys are getting an education that will do them any good? he and many athletes are complete dumbasses who could never handle an actual real college work load, obviously not all but we can all tell who may be borderlining on ******** even if they are incredible players.

Also, half the UNC roster risked it, it didnt work out for them, and im sure it was a blow to their draft stock for a while but the actually talented players didnt have trouble getting that back up and making the millions that they put at "risk", and im sure dez bryant would have liked to play his last year but even if he did he would still probably be spending all his money on cars and jewelry, he would still be dumb as a brick, and he would still be producing on the field at the next level

you're the only one who mentioned throwing into a tight window. you don't think ryan leaf's complete and utter inability to complete an interview had anything to do with his character?
i dont think that had anything to do with him sucking though....saying "decision making" is a huge part of being a QB applies to on the field sure, but lets not confuse executing a play with reality and making actual choices because thats idiotic and people do it too often.

Iamcanadian
06-09-2011, 01:19 PM
[QUOTE=njx9;2609655]i can't respond to this until i can read it. i think you're saying that players aren't at risk, but the schools are? *shrug* if i'm a player, i'm not risking potential millions for a new car in college. today, the ncaa seems to be unconcerned with its image. tomorrow they may decide to enforce their actual rules. why is this worth risking? because 'whoa is me, they're only paying for my education, my housing, my food and all of my future job training for 3 or so years, meanwhile doing everything they can to market me as widely as possible to as many employers as humanly possible'? that's absolutely idiotic.

I like how you fail to mention the millions of dollars the schools are making off the players while putting so much time pressure on them to be trained as football players, that most of them can only handle easy courses, and after their school years are over, they have very little to show for their efforts unless they have some chance at a pro career.
I'd be willing to bet that half the student body couldn't handle the time pressure athletes are subject to and still pass their courses.

Also, college coaches couldn't give a hoot about developing them as pro prospects, they do very little to prepare them for their careers. Almost to a man, everyone of them must be untrained by pro coaches and then retrained to play their pro positions.

I'm sure, you don't come from poverty, so comments about what you would do if offered cars or money under the table seems rather self serving to me.

Most of these kids have nothing and what do they see when they come to college, a totally corrupt system where their HC can make millions, a school who uses them up for profit and then throws them out on the street if they don't have pro careers.
For years back in the 50's and 60's, colleges passed their football players right up till their seniors football season was finished and then they threw them out the door without a diploma since they didn't need them anymore. That practiced only came to an end when newspapers began publishing graduation %'s of college athletes by schools. They embarrassed the schools into at least trying to pass their student athletes, the reality is the schools just use their student athletes to make money and couldn't care less what happens to them after their senior season.

How many former student athletes are walking around with broken bodies after their college career is over.

FTRWRTR
06-09-2011, 02:03 PM
Height/weight/speed combos like Pryor's are also a dime a dozen. Really? You see a bunch of NFL players who are 6'6 233 and run in the 4.5's?

FTRWRTR
06-09-2011, 02:10 PM
I'm reading an article about the Saskatchewan Roughriders having the rights to sign Pryor to the CFL. He was already going to play another year of football "without pay" before the 2011 draft, so it might actually be a good idea to try to get on a CFL team that will let him play some quarterback, and use it as a paid audition for the NFL. It'd be interesting to see what the CFL would pay him for one year, versus what he'd make as, say, a 4th-round supplemental pick.
The NFL would definitely pay better. Football is no where near as popular in Canada as it is here in the US. As a result the CFL has a lot less money to spend; each team has a cap of $4.2 million(in 2009 which was the last capped year for NFL teams it was $128 million) and most starting qbs in the CFL make $200,000 - $300,000 per season.

Last year, as a 7th round supp. pick Harvey Unga got a four year deal for $1.8 million.

I was able to find a conversion calculator online and if Pryor got $350,000 from the CFL that would translate to $357,735 in US dollars. Plus he'd have to pay slightly less taxes than if he played in America. Both of those facts would help but from a financial standpoint Pryor would be better off entering the supp. draft.

Caulibflower
06-09-2011, 02:27 PM
you really think they are doing everything they possibly can to market these players to their potential employers?

That's not what he said. It's not about the schools having an obligation to do everything they can; it's the fact that D1 football is the best place to prove that a given player has NFL ability. And if a player decides he doesn't need that, and jeopardizes that opportunity to get some free stuff, he either doesn't care very much about playing in the NFL, he's staggeringly impatient for his "dues," or he's really dumb. None of those are desirable traits, and no team ignores them when evaluating prospects.

well you are wrong. if that was the case tebow would have played TE,

This is idiotic. You realize Tebow was a first round pick at quarterback, right? He was made out to be a player so passionate he could play whatever position he wanted. Without all the hype, he would be looking at a position change.


...

Also, half the UNC roster risked it, it didnt work out for them, and im sure it was a blow to their draft stock for a while but the actually talented players didnt have trouble getting that back up and making the millions that they put at "risk", and im sure dez bryant would have liked to play his last year but even if he did he would still probably be spending all his money on cars and jewelry, he would still be dumb as a brick, and he would still be producing on the field at the next level

so... Pryor should just keep doing whatever he wants, because he will be as good as Dez Bryant and thus no one will care if he's an immature asshole? Are you clairvoyant? (By the way, people do care that Dez is an immature asshole, and if he keeps it up he'll begin his team-hopping path to unemployment sooner than later.)

i dont think that had anything to do with him sucking though....saying "decision making" is a huge part of being a QB applies to on the field sure, but lets not confuse executing a play with reality and making actual choices because thats idiotic and people do it too often.

It's simple, really. You don't want the most important player on your team being the biggest distraction on the team. You don't want him missing any practice time. You don't want him missing games. If this kids still getting in trouble, a team can't draft him thinking, "Oh, well all he has to do is show up and play well on Sunday." That's a really obtuse conception of what is required of an NFL QB, or any position, really.


I like how you fail to mention the millions of dollars the schools are making off the players while putting so much time pressure on them to be trained as football players, that most of them can only handle easy courses, and after their school years are over, they have very little to show for their efforts unless they have some chance at a pro career.
I'd be willing to bet that half the student body couldn't handle the time pressure athletes are subject to and still pass their courses.

Enough of the "THE NCAA MAKES SO MUCH MONEY OFF OF THE PLAYERS! THEY DESERVE IT!" The time commitment of an NCAA football player, per NCAA regulations, is 20 hours per week. That's a part-time job to pay for their education, and less hours than a lot of college students work while in school. Trying to make this conversation about how much is expected of these athletes again misses the point. Pryor's not getting reprimanded for flunking out of school or some other situation which is even related to how much time or effort he puts into his courses. He's in trouble because he pretty blatantly disregarded NCAA rules, knowing that there would be consequences if the NCAA wanted to enforce those rules, and ended up hurting his team, his draft stock and his reputation. You think this is about "time pressure" and you think other students couldn't pass their courses if they had to put in the amount of extracurricular time a football player does? Are you kidding me? Any serious college student is already maximizing their time. They are juggling school, work, and whatever else goes on in their lives. I'm tired of people making it out like Football Players represent the hardest-working of all collegians and that we should just turn a blind eye when they act like selfish douchebags, because the turning of the eye is what fosters this douchebaggery in the first place.

Also, college coaches couldn't give a hoot about developing them as pro prospects, they do very little to prepare them for their careers. Almost to a man, everyone of them must be untrained by pro coaches and then retrained to play their pro positions.

this is patently false. Any kind of reference or this, or did it just pop into your head as you were typing?

I'm sure, you don't come from poverty, so comments about what you would do if offered cars or money under the table seems rather self serving to me.

Are we talking about driving a fleet of pimp cars around and getting free tats, or some kid being given a Hyundai because he's poverty-stricken and has no transportation? "OHMYGOD, Terrell Pryor is so poor he doesn't even have an ESCALADE!"

Most of these kids have nothing and what do they see when they come to college, a totally corrupt system where their HC can make millions, a school who uses them up for profit and then throws them out on the street if they don't have pro careers.
For years back in the 50's and 60's, colleges passed their football players right up till their seniors football season was finished and then they threw them out the door without a diploma since they didn't need them anymore. That practiced only came to an end when newspapers began publishing graduation %'s of college athletes by schools. They embarrassed the schools into at least trying to pass their student athletes, the reality is the schools just use their student athletes to make money and couldn't care less what happens to them after their senior season.

How many former student athletes are walking around with broken bodies after their college career is over.

We all know about this. I do think a better system needs to be instituted, but that's not the issue at hand. Kids like Terrell Pryor, who've been highly touted since their prep days, often have been surrounded from their youth by people who influence their behavior in a negative way, and that is undesirable from the perspectives of their NFL employers. Sure, young poor black kid gets to college and gets offered cars... we all know that story. I can understand that story and the pressures on kids being offered stuff by boosters, poor or not. But if a player has a history of being in trouble for things, it doesn't really matter if his actions are justified socioeconomically. Teams want players without baggage, and regardless of what Terrell Pryor "deserves" by virtue of his, ahem, natural athletic ability (hey, a gift!), the bottom line is that the reputation he's acquired through school and the way he's stumbling into the NFL does not improve his value to NFL teams. You are totally free to think he's a good person and that the NCAA is a ****** institution (in many respects, it definitely is, like all huge institutions), but arguing about the injustice of the NCAA is a bit irrelevant when we're asking the simple question, "Is a player going to be distracted from his job as a football player due to poor judgement outside team functions?"

Hey look, Kenny Britt got arrested again.

Monomach
06-09-2011, 03:22 PM
Really? You see a bunch of NFL players who are 6'6 233 and run in the 4.5's?

This argument only works if you can show that Pryor has legit NFL skills.

I can walk 6 blocks from my work and get you 4-5 guys who are 6'5"-6'11", 225-245, and run 4.5 or faster with more stamina than Pryor. They haven't shown that they can be NFL wideouts, either...just like Pryor.

K Train
06-09-2011, 03:30 PM
I can walk 6 blocks from my work and get you 4-5 guys who are 6'5"-6'11", 225-245, and run 4.5 or faster with more stamina than Pryor..

interesting assumtion to say the least

Iamcanadian
06-09-2011, 03:42 PM
yes, it's the pressure that keeps kids taking easy courses. that's why andrew luck is working on a double major in engineering and architectural design. because there's so much pressure.

[QUOTE]And how many Andrew Lucks are there playing college football. Sure, you hear about a few college players who excel but the #'s suggest a real problem still exists.

if a student-athlete doesn't bother taking advantage of the free education he's offered, there's only one person to blame. unless, of course, you think dez bryant really, really wanted to pick up a physics degree, but oklahoma state just wouldn't let him.

There are plenty of student athletes who work to get an education but flying around the country to play games plus working out plus training adds up to a lot more than 20 hours a week, never mind time lag and recovering from injuries etc. etc.

yippee. i'd be willing to bet half of the student body is also taking those same easy courses because they can't handle college in the first place. i fail to see how there's any actual relevance.

And how many of them are forced to work????


yes, letting them play and practice their given sport doesn't help. heck, that's why so many players aren't playing college ball anymore, so they can spend all of their time working out with real coaches until they're eligible for the draft.

Didn't say it didn't help but college coaches aren't paid to train their players to be pros, all they want from them is college victories.
Yeah, I guess that's why they spend the post season of their draft year working with professional coaches to try and show the scouts and GM's they can transition from college ball to the pros.


i'm sure you don't know the first ******* thing about me and it's frankly offensive that you'd even imply anything about what i would or wouldn't do.

Maybe I shouldn't have made it personal but you don't know Pryor either yet you feel free to imply plenty about him.


yes, "throws them out on the street".

or, they say, "hey, you had 4 years of free education. why is it our fault that you couldn't hack it? why is it our fault that people, every day, graduate from high school and are able to make a living because they actually spend a few minutes working at it. we even paid for your food and a roof over your head for that period of time."

I'm sure a lot of student athletes make the grade, generally in the 60% range but it is a lot harder on them especially the student athletes who come from poor areas with mediocre school systems.



but yeah, it's totally different than how they deal with a kid on an academic scholarship, who earns the school millions of dollars in grant money via research, then can't hack it in the real world. i mean, they go to the ends of the earth to make sure those kids don't end up homeless.

They don't restrict their ability to take outside jobs for any amount of money if they so desire, if a company gives them a car because they want to ensure they have a shot to hire them, they aren't suspended or kicked out of school and last I looked, nobody is asking a acedemic scholarship student to put his body at risk like they are asking a student athlete.
People forget to add in how many millions of dollars student athletes bring in via donations because of a successful sports teams, it is a heck of a lot more than what a school gets in grants from research.
Finally, schools go way out of their way to ensure their academic scholarship students find jobs.



because what happened in the 50's and, by your own admission, no longer happens is completely relevant.

It shows that schools have a long history of abusing their student athletes and only changed when forced to do so.

further, even were that still provably happening, the kids can *still go to college*. there are these wonderful things called "loans" that one can take out to "pay for things".

So after bringing as much as 300 million a year to the school through profits and donations, you are now going to ask the student athlete to go into debt to complete his education????


i don't have an answer for your completely irrelevant question. do you?

I'd guess the #'s would run into the thousands every decade, football is a very tough sport. Worse yet, if I'm a student working for the University part time and I get hurt, I can get state benefits but if I get hurt playing football or any school sport, I'm not eligible because I'm not a paid employee.

The pros don't care if Pryor took a car(s) or money, you think they don't know how the college system uses these kids????

The only thing I regret about Pryor taking a car etc. is that I won't get to see him and others play this season for their schools, I don't blame him or others one bit for getting something for putting their bodies on the line for their schools.

Caulibflower
06-09-2011, 03:46 PM
I can walk 6 blocks from my work and get you 4-5 guys who are 6'5"-6'11", 225-245, and run 4.5 or faster with more stamina than Pryor.

Where the hell do you work? as far as I know, no 6'11" person has ever run a 4.5.

K Train
06-09-2011, 03:49 PM
id say he works 6 blocks from a professional athlete training facility

Iamcanadian
06-09-2011, 03:49 PM
Where the hell do you work? as far as I know, no 6'11" person has ever run a 4.5.

He obviously works 6 blocks from the Miami Heat and Miami Dolphins. No other explanation is possible.

Monomach
06-09-2011, 03:51 PM
interesting assumtion to say the least

That's not an assumption. I know exactly where to find them.

Monomach
06-09-2011, 03:52 PM
He obviously works 6 blocks from the Miami Heat and Miami Dolphins. No other explanation is possible.

Nope. Just a college basketball program. Those guys are not rare at all. Most of them just don't have football skills.

Kind of like Pryor.

K Train
06-09-2011, 03:54 PM
That's not an assumption. I know exactly where to find them.

assuming pryor doenst have the stamina of your athletic breeding ground might be an assumtion considering the only thing pryor has ever done with his life is stuff that involves running and training and dominating sports at every level hes been at so far

Caulibflower
06-09-2011, 05:24 PM
Nope. Just a college basketball program. Those guys are not rare at all. Most of them just don't have football skills.

Kind of like Pryor.

I guarantee you none of these guys have the speed of Pryor, and I'd be similarly shocked if they were as difficult to tackle. It might well be a wash regarding their ability to catch the ball, but "tall and coordinated" is an understatement of what Pryor offers. A basketball player having height is sort of like a football player having speed; it's probably the most looked-at trait a player can have in their respective sport. So you can't just take a bunch of tall basketball players and say, "Hey look, Pryor is not that special," because you're severely underestimating the rarity of a player having that much speed at 6'6" 240, or whatever he weighs. Those basketball players are not running 4.5s. That's silly.

SolidGold
06-10-2011, 08:15 AM
Pryor is a Matt Jones clone...nothing more nothing less. One can argue that Jones was actually a better college QB than Pryor too. He did more with less at Arkansas. OSU is a perennially stacked team in regards to talent. I think most teams view Pryor as an afterthought at the QB position.

MikeTheDudeV2
06-10-2011, 09:45 AM
I feel like Buffalo with a 4th Round pick sounds like a good landing spot for him.

They could use a QB, WR, or a TE. I think Chan Gailey would love to give him a shot at any of those 3 spots.

LonghornsLegend
06-10-2011, 09:47 AM
I feel like Buffalo with a 4th Round pick sounds like a good landing spot for him.

They could use a QB, WR, or a TE. I think Chan Gailey would love to give him a shot at any of those 3 spots.

Buffalo has sucked at drafting lately so using a 4th rounder I guess would fall right in line with everything else they've done. If you don't know what position a guy is gonna play, 4th round is certainly too early. I think your likely wasting picks, and bringing in negative publicity to your team if you spend anything higher then a 6th.

BlockO22
06-10-2011, 12:02 PM
Pryor has hired Jon Gruden to train him

Iamcanadian
06-10-2011, 01:03 PM
Say what you want but Pryor has a legitimate shot to be a starting NFL QB with further training. He has 1st round physical talent for the position but Ohio St. wasn't an ideal location to learn how to be a NFL QB and it shows in his current game.
I think he will be taken a lot higher than people expect if he is eligible for the supplementary draft. I still think he goes round 2 or 3 at the latest.

SolidGold
06-10-2011, 02:33 PM
Say what you want but Pryor has a legitimate shot to be a starting NFL QB with further training. He has 1st round physical talent for the position but Ohio St. wasn't an ideal location to learn how to be a NFL QB and it shows in his current game.
I think he will be taken a lot higher than people expect if he is eligible for the supplementary draft. I still think he goes round 2 or 3 at the latest.

Pretty sure he picked OSU because he was going to play a pro style offense and it was going to prepare him to be an NFL QB. He is way behind the learning curve as an NFL QB. His arm strength isn't that great, accuracy questionable and his mechanics are shoddy. His physical talent equates to that of a good college qb, different skill set is needed in the NFL.

LonghornsLegend
06-10-2011, 02:42 PM
Say what you want but Pryor has a legitimate shot to be a starting NFL QB with further training. He has 1st round physical talent for the position but Ohio St. wasn't an ideal location to learn how to be a NFL QB and it shows in his current game.
I think he will be taken a lot higher than people expect if he is eligible for the supplementary draft. I still think he goes round 2 or 3 at the latest.



This is all wrong.


What legitimate traits does Pryor possess that make him have a legit shot to be a starting NFL QB? I'm very curious, other then running you can give him credit for. There's no reason to go into the laundry list of things he does terrible.


Also, Michigan wasn't an ideal location to learn how to be an NFL QB. Neither was Auburn, or Florida. Ohio St? Those are just excuses. Ryan Mallett couldn't make round 2, and Pryor isn't even close to becoming that good of a QB, and Mallett has a ton of things he needs to correct. Ohio St has a ton of pro style reads, so it seems like your just trying to say he should be a round 2 pick without any evidence to show why.


Mind you this is all just based on his tools. Let alone his attitude and off the field issues.

underscore
06-10-2011, 03:09 PM
Pryor has hired Jon Gruden to train him

Now we know why he was selling all his stuff...to save money to hire Gruden!

FUNBUNCHER
06-10-2011, 03:16 PM
Pryor is a Matt Jones clone...nothing more nothing less. One can argue that Jones was actually a better college QB than Pryor too. He did more with less at Arkansas. OSU is a perennially stacked team in regards to talent. I think most teams view Pryor as an afterthought at the QB position.

I agree with a lot of this, haven't read this entire thread and made an effort not to get involved in it.

Pryor was highly productive at Ohio State, mainly in producing Ws for the Buckeyes in 3 years, and from that respect he's a great COLLEGE QB.

But the thing that annoyed me when watching Pryor play is that so often OSU had WRs running WIDE open that he struggled to pinpoint or hit in stride.

That offense was teed up for Pryor to put up 4+ TDs a game, and that level of production was simply beyond him.

I have a hard time seeing him becoming a successful NFL QB because of his struggles with the intermediate passing game and his difficulty in rapidly processing through his reads and finding gaps in coverage.

There's a difference in a player who's an 'athletic QB', like Cam Newton, and an 'athlete playing QB'.

Terrelle Pryor IMO is the latter, and rarely have I seen him have games where he flashes the execution or decision-making needed to be a starting NFL QB.

If his head was into it, I think Pryor could be a pro bowl WR, if he really is a 4.4 40 sprinter and committed to learning the position.

PossibleCabbage
06-10-2011, 05:09 PM
Greg Cosell's Twitter ( https://twitter.com/#!/gregcosell ) has been a good read on Pryor over the last couple days. He works for NFL Films and if you've ever watched ESPN's excellent, excellent NFL Matchup (which is a hardcore X and O show, but is one of the best shows on ESPN, even if it's on at like 3 AM) you can pick up the fact that he's no slouch when it comes to film.

He's not really on most people's standard draftnik radar, since he evaluates exclusively based on film but that's a good twitter to follow.

FUNBUNCHER
06-10-2011, 05:43 PM
Greg Cosell's Twitter ( https://twitter.com/#!/gregcosell ) has been a good read on Pryor over the last couple days. He works for NFL Films and if you've ever watched ESPN's excellent, excellent NFL Matchup (which is a hardcore X and O show, but is one of the best shows on ESPN, even if it's on at like 3 AM) you can pick up the fact that he's no slouch when it comes to film.

He's not really on most people's standard draftnik radar, since he evaluates exclusively based on film but that's a good twitter to follow.


What does Cosell think about Pryor's pro prospects???

PossibleCabbage
06-10-2011, 06:37 PM
What does Cosell think about Pryor's pro prospects???

You could click on the twitter link, but transcribed for your reading pleasure:

Watched 2 T. Pryor games today. Number of things stood out. Pass game principles basic. Predominant 1 read concepts from under center.

More Pryor: Pushed the ball, didn't drive thru throws. Tendency to lift back foot off ground before delivering ball. Reduces arm strength.

More Pryor: Limited pocket feel + presence, impatient + uncomfortable in pocket. One read + then break down. No ability to move + reset.

More Pryor: Poor footwork as he sets + plants to deliver. Little sense at this point of how drop of QB syncs up with receivers routes.

More Pryor: Not naturally accurate. Scattershot. Over-reactive to perceived pressure. No precision to game. A random, unstructured player.

More Pryor: Overall long way to go before any chance of being NFL QB. In 2 games I evaluated showed no attributes that transition to NFL.

More Pryor: Will watch more tomorrow, including bowl game. Really struggled to find traits that project to NFL QB. Average arm + inaccurate

I watched 2 games of Pryor, 7-8 of the other QB in draft. Based on those 2 games, Pryor a late round pick at best. Want to see more.

Finished 4 game study of Pryor: Miami, Wisconsin, Iowa and Arkansas in bowl game. A developmental project. No NFL QB traits at this point.

More Pryor: Those who equate body athleticism to QB skills + tools will see positives. Those who see NFL QB as a craft will not see much.

More Pryor: Many issues that need major work. 2 are average arm strength + erratic accuracy. Little velocity. Can't drive ball. Poor passer.

More Pryor: For those who equate athleticism with QB he's a draftable player. I evaluated him w/late round/free agent grade. No NFL skills.

Major difference between Pryor + Newton is Newton can throw. Big arm, drives the ball. Newton can make NFL throws, Pryor at this point can't

Pryor's advantage in supp. draft is no expectations. Can be a #3 QB + perhaps develop over time. Still a major question but ideal situation.

So there you go. Seriously, though, Cosell is a great Twitter read around draft season.

SolidGold
06-10-2011, 09:02 PM
Awesome post PC

raphael
06-11-2011, 05:36 PM
Pryor is a Matt Jones clone...nothing more nothing less. One can argue that Jones was actually a better college QB than Pryor too. He did more with less at Arkansas. OSU is a perennially stacked team in regards to talent. I think most teams view Pryor as an afterthought at the QB position.

He had 65 catches in just 12 games of the 2008 season. More than the three receivers drafted ahead of him in 2005 COMBINED. Jones didn't drop out of the NFL because he failed to become a good receiver, he dropped out due to his drug and alchohol problems. In his last season, Matt was ahead of Roddy White (the best receiver out of that draft) when his suspension went into effect. White was selected for the Pro Bowl that season.

raphael
06-11-2011, 05:46 PM
Pryor had pretty much the same passing stats as Newton last year. He was bigger, faster, and had a higher GPA coming out of high school, and comes off as being more intelligent generally. His transgressions in college were far less serious than Newton's. No criminal offenses, and nothing to get him expelled from the institution. They appear to be simply taking some advantage of his status in a legal manner. Even if he earned "$20,000 to $40,000" for signing memorablilia as has been claimed, that is a tiny fraction of the money the Newtons got from Auburn. Not to mention that the Auburn players were working for Under Armour the whole time with the money (perhaps) deferred until they turned pro.

I'd take Pryor ahead of Newton in a heartbeat if they were both available in the same draft. Terrelle is a better athlete and a better person, and I think probably more intelligent and capable of learning. Getting him in the supplemental draft gives the team a "free" year to work on his game, whether it be at QB or WR before they even have to spend the draft pick on him. Normally that privledge costs one full round in draft value when teams trade a future pick for a current one. Second round pick today costs you a first next year, is the rule of thumb.

FUNBUNCHER
06-11-2011, 05:59 PM
Newton didn't get his HC fired, or put his college program on suspension by the NCAA.

Everything against Cam were ALLEGATIONS, none proven, so you can't put him and Pryor in the same category as far as violating NCAA rules.

Cam didn't leave behind landmines when he left UF, and he just earned Chizik a pay raise at Auburn.

Watching them play, who really was the 'better athlete'?? Who was the better passer, the better QB??

On top of that, you've had teammates come out and say how they don't even like Terrelle.
Not the best endorsement for a QB who's supposed to be the leader of your team.

Glad you love the guy, but I don't see how you come close to arguing Pryor is a better pro prospect than Newton.

Terrelle Pryor was supposed to BE Cam Newton in college. Didn't happen.

raphael
06-11-2011, 06:09 PM
Terrelle Pryor was supposed to BE Cam Newton in college. Didn't happen.

Uuuh...Pryor started for 3 years, Newton for 1, and Terrelle is a bit younger. He won over twice as many games in D1 than Newton. A year ago everyone was probably saying that Newton was supposed to be Pryor in college. "Allegations" against Newton? C'mon, the guy was arrested and plea bargained a serious criminal charge at Florida. Seems like more than an allegation. Pryor has been convicted of nothing by the Courts. He broke college rules by acceptiing some free tattoos. That seems less sleazy by a long shot than repeatedly cheating on tests and assignments.

As for getting his HC fired, I think that matter is still percolating out there. It took several years for them to catch up to Reggie Bush and hasten Pete Carroll out the door.

LonghornsLegend
06-11-2011, 06:24 PM
You could click on the twitter link, but transcribed for your reading pleasure:



So there you go. Seriously, though, Cosell is a great Twitter read around draft season.

Thank you. I would have liked to think most of this information was common knowledge.

gice1212
06-11-2011, 06:50 PM
Uuuh...Pryor started for 3 years, Newton for 1, and Terrelle is a bit younger. He won over twice as many games in D1 than Newton. A year ago everyone was probably saying that Newton was supposed to be Pryor in college. "Allegations" against Newton? C'mon, the guy was arrested and plea bargained a serious criminal charge at Florida. Seems like more than an allegation. Pryor has been convicted of nothing by the Courts. He broke college rules by acceptiing some free tattoos. That seems less sleazy by a long shot than repeatedly cheating on tests and assignments.

As for getting his HC fired, I think that matter is still percolating out there. It took several years for them to catch up to Reggie Bush and hasten Pete Carroll out the door.

But he is not a good Quarterback...

raphael
06-11-2011, 07:09 PM
But he is not a good Quarterback... They said that about Tebow and Tim had the best QB passer rating of any rookie last year. Not to mention the best running game.

Pryor is still just 21. Any team that takes him has a "bonus" year to work on his mechanics before they give up a draft pick for him. His raw tools are as good as Newton and he seems smarter and less of a jerk. If Cam can go first overall in the regular draft, Pryor has to be worth at least a second round pick. I think Terrelle is getting a lot of extra crap thrown his way because everyone knows that Newton got away with a lot and still ended up being rewarded for it. No one feels great about that so they're taking it out on the next guy who is in a similar situaton.

LonghornsLegend
06-11-2011, 07:15 PM
Is anybody every gonna explain what these "tools" are that make him worth a 2nd round pick? Or are we gonna keep employing the use of the word "raw tools" from now on to describe why Pryor is a high pick? I'll even start it off: He's fast.

niel89
06-11-2011, 07:22 PM
Newton is just a better football player and Quarterback than Pryor is. Pryor is a comparable athlete but Newton showed more in 1 year than Pryor did in 3.

TACKLE
06-11-2011, 07:28 PM
Is anybody every gonna explain what these "tools" are that make him worth a 2nd round pick? Or are we gonna keep employing the use of the word "raw tools" from now on to describe why Pryor is a high pick? I'll even start it off: He's fast.

...he's big. 10char

raphael
06-11-2011, 07:37 PM
He is as tall as Newton, probably about the same weight now, has a similar arm. Ohio State didn't win a national championship, but they won over 30 games in three years with Pryor as the starting QB, including a couple of big Bowl wins. He would have been three for three if not for a great game by Colt McCoy when he was at Texas. Last season Pryor's accuracy rating was just one point below Newton, and higher than a few other top QB prospects in the 2011 draft. He had about the same yardage as Newton and a couple less TD passes. Not a huge difference overall. Career wise, his accuracy rating is better than Locker, Kaepernick, and Mallett. Similar to Gabbert and Ponder. Same with his overall passer rating. Plus he is the second youngest of that group behind Gabbert.

Monomach
06-11-2011, 07:42 PM
...he's big. 10char

So he's fast and he's big.

I'm pretty sure we're done with this list.

raphael
06-11-2011, 07:48 PM
So he's fast and he's big.

I'm pretty sure we're done with this list.

At the Rivals recruiting site Pryor was listed at 6-6, 235, with a 4.4 40. Newton was listed at 6-4, 232, with a 4.51 40 at the same age. So he is a bit bigger and a bit faster to start. As far as arm strength it's a guess, but I don't see a difference. Newton finished down the list a bit when the prospects were timed with a gun at the Combine, Pryor would probably be in the same range. Accuracy, all we have to go off is their stats from last season. Newton was just 1% point higher, and he played out of a spread offense which tends to affect a higher completion percentage. Pryor played a more pro style game at OSU.

Jamaal-Football
06-11-2011, 08:00 PM
At the Rivals recruiting site Pryor was listed at 6-6, 235, with a 4.4 40. Newton was listed at 6-4, 232, with a 4.51 40 at the same age. So he is a bit bigger and a bit faster to start. As far as arm strength it's a guess, but I don't see a difference. Newton finished down the list a bit when the prospects were timed with a gun at the Combine, Pryor would probably be in the same range. Accuracy, all we have to go off is their stats from last season. Newton was just 1% point higher, and he played out of a spread offense which tends to affect a higher completion percentage. Pryor played a more pro style game at OSU.

Pretty much everything you posted is absolutely meaningless. Did you watch him play any? He has horrible mechanics and his accuracy #s are completely irrelevant. Comparing him to Cam Newton wouldn't necessarily be a good thing for a lot of people either, seeing as how there was a terrible split on whether Newton was worthy of being a franchise-type quarterback.

LonghornsLegend
06-11-2011, 08:04 PM
So he's fast and he's big.

I'm pretty sure we're done with this list.

And College wins & College production, don't forget that. Those are obviously the most important traits you need to be a good NFL QB.

raphael
06-11-2011, 08:07 PM
Pretty much everything you posted is absolutely meaningless. Did you watch him play any? He has horrible mechanics and his accuracy #s are completely irrelevant. Comparing him to Cam Newton wouldn't necessarily be a good thing for a lot of people either, seeing as how there was a terrible split on whether Newton was worthy of being a franchise-type quarterback.

Newton drafted FIRST OVERALL is the point. Most people here thinking Pryor isn't worth a seventh rounder. If wins, passer efficiency, size, athletic ability, and big game performance is all "meaningless" what is the point of even having the guys play college ball? Get real.

FUNBUNCHER
06-11-2011, 09:00 PM
Newton drafted FIRST OVERALL is the point. Most people here thinking Pryor isn't worth a seventh rounder. If wins, passer efficiency, size, athletic ability, and big game performance is all "meaningless" what is the point of even having the guys play college ball? Get real.

I just never came away from an OSU game that impressed with how Pryor played. Or put it this way, I never thought this guy looks like a stud at the next level.

IMO Pryor was never outstanding at any one part of the game, and his throwing ability,(downfield accuracy, timing, reading coverages) is possibly the weakest part of his game.

At least Cam showed flashes that he might have the ability to develop into a top-level starting QB in the NFL. Pryor IMO needs a ton of remedial work, which is more disconcerting considering he played in a more conventional offense at OHio State.

Pryor isn't half the QB Troy Smith was throwing the football for the Buckeyes, but I wouldn't have a problem if some team gave up a 5th-7th on Pryor.

From the neck up, and sometimes from the waist down, Pryor seems to play the game of football too slow for what you'd like to see from an NFL prospect.

Can he develop?? Maybe. Does he have the raw tools?? In general.

But IMO his upside says marginal starter in the pros, not pro bowler.

Jamaal-Football
06-11-2011, 09:13 PM
Newton drafted FIRST OVERALL is the point. Most people here thinking Pryor isn't worth a seventh rounder. If wins, passer efficiency, size, athletic ability, and big game performance is all "meaningless" what is the point of even having the guys play college ball? Get real.

As a quarterback, i just think he would take years of developing to ever be serviceable in the NFL. I don't think that's worthy of a pick in the top four rounds. You're really pushing it from the 5th-6th, and 7th sounds about right for all the concerns (not just character wise) about him. If you're taking him as an athlete, then it's a completely different discussion, but as a quarterback it's not too crazy to say that he isn't worth anything more than a 7th round pick.

raphael
06-11-2011, 09:28 PM
Pryor's three year career was almost identical to Vince Young's. Passing, running, and winning. He is a bit bigger and probably a bit faster. Almost certainly a higher Wonderlic guy. Terrelle is a year and a few months younger than Young was coming out. His passing mechanics and arm strength are not worse than Vince's coming out. Pryor may not be the highest character guy, but certainly doesn't lack confidence the way Young seemed to in public. Vince was on track to be a solid NFL QB aside from his personality breakdowns. I'd say the best quick description of Pryor would be VY without the emotional baggage. Young went third overall in the draft, and if he showed any signs of maturity the Titans wouldn't be looking for a new quarterback.

Jamaal-Football
06-11-2011, 09:33 PM
I know you didn't just compare Terrelle Pryor to Vince Young..

raphael
06-11-2011, 09:35 PM
Another way of looking at it is that various college QBs have been drafted as conversion projects. Players like Hines Ward, Antwaan Randle, Brad Smith, Pat White, were all taken in the top couple of rounds. None of those guys has close to the raw tools of Pryor as a receiver. Not only is he 6-6 and probably as fast over 40 yards as any receiver taken in the draft, he has long arms, big hands, and a basketballer's short area athlticism. Off the get go he looks like a more promising conversion project than Antonio Gates was. Broncos took Julius Thomas in the fourth round and he was a basketball player with only one year of football experience.

raphael
06-11-2011, 09:37 PM
I know you didn't just compare Terrelle Pryor to Vince Young..

Yeah, no one has ever compared those two before. Groundbreaking.

FYI - Young won 30 games for Texas with a bit over 6,000 passing yards, a passer rating of 144.8, and 77 total touchdowns scored. Pryor won 31 for OSU, 6,100 passing yards, passer rating of 144.6, and 74 total touchdowns.

TACKLE
06-11-2011, 09:54 PM
I don't know why so many people are still talking about him as a potential QB. It just seems so obvious they he has more to offer and a higher upside at WR.

raphael
06-11-2011, 09:56 PM
I don't know why so many people are still talking about him as a potential QB. It just seems so obvious they he has more to offer and a higher upside at WR.

I think teams have to look at him first as a QB. Only when it is obvious to them he can't play the position will they test him as a receiver. Look at Joe Webb, I think he surprised a few people last year. Started out strictly as a receiver in camp and by the end of the season he was the starting QB. Not the worst rookie Qb in the league, either.

PossibleCabbage
06-12-2011, 02:29 AM
Joe Webb was so impressive last year it convinced his team to pick, at #13 overall, a QB who most people had graded as a second round pick.

raphael
06-12-2011, 02:44 PM
Joe Webb was so impressive last year it convinced his team to pick, at #13 overall, a QB who most people had graded as a second round pick.

Well, Webb was a sixth round pick or something. Drafted as a wide receiver. They needed him at QB, and he did a serviceable job. Ponder still has to beat him out, and even if he does Chris isn't famous for his durability. Meanwhile Webb catches a few passes, maybe. Versatility never hurts.

raphael
06-12-2011, 02:47 PM
I don't know why so many people are still talking about him as a potential QB. It just seems so obvious they he has more to offer and a higher upside at WR.

Carolina gave up a second round draft pick in this year's draft to take Armanti Edwards as a QB/WR conversion project. The guy is tiny and doesn't run very fast. Hard to think that Pryor wouldn't be worth a lot more on potential alone as a WR conversion. Edwards was no saint off the field, either.

scpanther22
06-12-2011, 07:14 PM
lol at this
That’s great value for a player who in a lot of ways resembles Cam Newton, the Heisman Trophy winner out of Auburn and soon-to-be multimillionaire taken No. 1 overall by the Carolina Panthers in April.

The truth is, Pryor, at 6-foot-6 and 240 pounds, has considerably more experience as a college quarterback than Newton, with a 31-4 record and MVP awards in BCS wins in the Rose Bowl and Sugar bowls.

He’s a faster runner than Newton and has comparable arm strength. Former Ohio State assistant Doug Plank said Pryor was the fastest player on the Ohio State roster, which included Chimdi Chekwa, the fleet corner the Raiders drafted in the fourth round.

Pryor has the same questions regarding his pocket passing that have dogged Newton, although it would be difficult to convince Oregon of that based on the way Pryor carved up the Ducks (23 of 37, 266 yards, two touchdowns) in the Rose Bowl after the 2009 season.

Playing in an offense not nearly as suited to his skill set as Newton had at Auburn, Pryor last season passed for 2,772 yards with 27 touchdown passes and 11 interceptions to go with 754 yards rushing and four scores
http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/columnists/view.bg?&articleid=1344884&format=&page=1&listingType=sco#articleFull

FUNBUNCHER
06-12-2011, 10:08 PM
Seems like many fans haven't seen Pryor play and realize how much he struggles IMO to consistently execute routine pass plays.

keylime_5
06-13-2011, 12:21 AM
Pryor came into college extremely raw as a passer and he leaves very raw still, leaving a lot of points on the board with his inconsistency in accuracy and mechanics. Guy has to make major strides to be a good pro QB. He was a good college QB, some guys act like he was a bust but the truth is the guy was a great player who had immense hype to become the next Vince Young or Tim Tebow type player that he never lived up to, but very few do. Still he did make progress every year as a passer and OSU's offense got consistently better with each of the 3 years Pryor was the starting QB.

Despite that there's no way IMO that he was gonna be a good QB in the NFL unless he stayed all 4 years. I don't think he has "it" mentally and is too far away as a passer to go to a game where even great college passers turn into busts. I think he could eventually become a WR maybe at this point, he is a freak athelte, fastest guy on the team that included Chimdi Chekwa who clocked a sub 4.4 forty this spring in his workouts. He has the size, speed, strength, and leaping ability to go out there and beat guys for jump balls on the sideline. His learning curve for being a successful receiver at this point isn't all that far from where his learning curve at QB is.

Shane P. Hallam
06-13-2011, 06:23 AM
Seems like many fans haven't seen Pryor play and realize how much he struggles IMO to consistently execute routine pass plays.

Once again, I think we need to differentiate between what we as fans thinks and what we believe NFL teams to think. Do I think Pryor will be a good pro? No. Do I think one of the 32 teams out there thinks he could be an amazing pro? Yes, and thus why I think he will be drafted higher than most think.

SolidGold
06-13-2011, 08:29 AM
Scott, what are your thoughts on Pryor?

umphrey
06-13-2011, 11:20 AM
Terrelle Pryor chose Drew Rosenhaus as his agent. Maybe he can get him 1 good contract. Maybe.

http://twitter.com/#!/schadjoe/status/80301867384582145

raphael
06-13-2011, 04:29 PM
I can't imagine Pryor lasting past the second round of the supplemental draft. I'd say the only question would be if one of the stronger teams in the league felt it necessary to use a first. As I mentioned, Carolina ended up giving up the 33rd pick of the last draft for freaking Armanti Edwards. Pryor has a lot more potential as both a quarterback and wide receiver than Edwards had.

Shane P. Hallam
06-13-2011, 04:39 PM
I can't imagine Pryor lasting past the second round of the supplemental draft. I'd say the only question would be if one of the stronger teams in the league felt it necessary to use a first. As I mentioned, Carolina ended up giving up the 33rd pick of the last draft for freaking Armanti Edwards. Pryor has a lot more potential as both a quarterback and wide receiver than Edwards had.

That might be a bit adventurous. I think he is solidly in the 4th-5th, but 2nd would be pretty crazy unless a team fell in love with those physicla tools..

A Perfect Score
06-13-2011, 04:54 PM
I can't imagine Pryor lasting past the second round of the supplemental draft. I'd say the only question would be if one of the stronger teams in the league felt it necessary to use a first. As I mentioned, Carolina ended up giving up the 33rd pick of the last draft for freaking Armanti Edwards. Pryor has a lot more potential as both a quarterback and wide receiver than Edwards had.

They didn't give up the 33rd overall pick for Armanti Edwards, they gave up a second rounder. Thats a huge differential. They didn't knowingly surrender a Top 33 pick, I'm sure that the franchise assumed it would be later in the second. When trading away future picks, I'm sure franchises aren't anticipating being the worst team in the league. It just happened to work out very unfortunately for the Panthers this time around, but they've been trading away premium picks for a few years now (Otah, Brown, Edwards)

raphael
06-13-2011, 05:11 PM
They didn't give up the 33rd overall pick for Armanti Edwards, they gave up a second rounder. Thats a huge differential. They didn't knowingly surrender a Top 33 pick, I'm sure that the franchise assumed it would be later in the second. When trading away future picks, I'm sure franchises aren't anticipating being the worst team in the league. It just happened to work out very unfortunately for the Panthers this time around, but they've been trading away premium picks for a few years now (Otah, Brown, Edwards)

Whoever takes Pryor in the supplemental gets the same deal as if they traded a future pick for an extra pick this year in the regular draft. That normally costs one round of pick value. So a team giving up a second rounder in 2012 is using what amounts to a third rounder this year. If they placed a third round value on Pryor (I'm sure a few teams have, whether as a QB or WR) giving a second round supplemental offer is no different than what the Panthers did in drafting Edwards. That pick could end up being #33 or #64. But as a prospect, Pryor comes out miles ahead of Edwards at either position.

FUNBUNCHER
06-13-2011, 05:25 PM
Terrelle Pryor chose Drew Rosenhaus as his agent. Maybe he can get him 1 good contract. Maybe.

http://twitter.com/#!/schadjoe/status/80301867384582145

I don't know if Rosenhaus is the best guy to work on Pryor's behalf to convince NFL teams he's a future QB.

But Drew is shrewd enough to know if Pryor's best financial opportunity is at QB or WR, and should be able to convince Terrelle if a position switch is in the long term interest of his professional career.

I love Pryor as a WR prospect BTW.

I don't like his decision-making as a QB or how quickly he processes action on the field once the ball snaps, but put him out wide and tell him to go get the football, I think he can do that at a really high level.

underscore
06-13-2011, 06:43 PM
According to NFL Network's Jason La Canfora, former Ohio State QB Terrelle Pryor is mostly drawing fifth-round grades from NFL teams.

gpngc
06-13-2011, 07:24 PM
Major difference between Pryor + Newton is Newton can throw. Big arm, drives the ball. Newton can make NFL throws, Pryor at this point can't

It doesn't take a twitter scout or a real scout to see this. It's blatantly obvious lol.

And that's all that matters. If you want to spend a 5th thinking you can turn him into a WR (which isn't THAT crazy), then I guess go for it. But there's no way anyone's spending a precious draft pick on Adrian McPherson lol.

AntoinCD
06-13-2011, 07:29 PM
Im not in love with Pryor as either a QB or a WR. A lot of the college QBs turned NFL WRs have been the smaller, shiftier types who can do damage in the slot-think Randel-el, Cribbs, Edelman etc. If Pryor becomes a WR he almost has to be put on the outside due to his size and questions over his ability to take multiple hits by LBs and safeties. On the outside nobody knows if he can run even half the routes necessary. Sure he has the long speed and size to be potentially good at going deep, however what are his hands like?, what are his hands like in traffic?, is he just simply a size and speed guy who is dangerous with the ball in his hands but doesn't have a true position?

LonghornsLegend
06-13-2011, 07:40 PM
The other thing people need to ask themselves is if Pryor even wants to be better, does he want to be great? He had very little development at tOSU, he seems to have an arrogance about him(others have pointed this out also), that has him acting like he's already made it and doesn't need to work any harder.


While guys had their knocks about Dez, Harvin, Newton, etc in the character department, I think with most of those guys you knew they loved football. Have a passion for it, put extra time in. I'm not getting that vibe from Newton, and it's not like he's a polished product who is ready to go no matter where he is drafted.

gice1212
06-14-2011, 08:26 AM
He is as tall as Newton, probably about the same weight now, has a similar arm. Ohio State didn't win a national championship, but they won over 30 games in three years with Pryor as the starting QB, including a couple of big Bowl wins. He would have been three for three if not for a great game by Colt McCoy when he was at Texas. Last season Pryor's accuracy rating was just one point below Newton, and higher than a few other top QB prospects in the 2011 draft. He had about the same yardage as Newton and a couple less TD passes. Not a huge difference overall. Career wise, his accuracy rating is better than Locker, Kaepernick, and Mallett. Similar to Gabbert and Ponder. Same with his overall passer rating. Plus he is the second youngest of that group behind Gabbert.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2P8XwaI5BfA&feature=youtu.be

Don't look at his stats. Please watch all 9 minutes of this video and try to convince yourself he is even close to Newton as a player or close to an NFL caliber quarterback prospect.

raphael
06-14-2011, 12:03 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2P8XwaI5BfA&feature=youtu.be

Don't look at his stats. Please watch all 9 minutes of this video and try to convince yourself he is even close to Newton as a player or close to an NFL caliber quarterback prospect.

You can pick a small slice of any player's film to elevate or diminish him. That was an ugly loss for Pryor and OSU against a very good team. One of only four for Terrelle in 35 games as a starter. You see some bad and some good, which is about what you expect from a 21 year old QB. But, OVER THE SEASON, he had about the same numbers as Newton (first overall pick), and OVER HIS CAREER the same numbers as Vince Young (third overall pick). Pryor was younger, smarter, and a better athlete than either of those two when he did it. Fifth round? Even if they draft him strictly as a receiver he is worth a lot more than that. Same measurables as Matt Jones, and Jones was a pretty good NFL receiver when the coke took over.

PossibleCabbage
06-14-2011, 12:23 PM
Interesting observation from Greg Gabriel (former director of college scouting for the Chicago Bears) in his article on the National Football Post today:

I know Pryor has hired an agent and turned down the CFL, but it is not a lock that he will be playing in the NFL this season. First off, there isn’t a supplemental draft as of now and even if there was, he doesn’t meet the criteria that the NFL has used in the past for players to enter the supplemental draft. Pryor did not flunk out of school and he still has a year of college eligibility. He was suspended for five games this season but he still could have come back and played in the final seven games and a bowl game. He also could have transferred down to a school at a lower level of competition and played this year or just transferred to another FBS school and sit out the year.

In the past, players in the supplemental draft had lost the ability to finish their college career because of grades or other circumstances. For Pryor to be in a supplemental draft the league office would have to change their requirements. I’m not saying they won’t but do they want to? That could be setting a bad precedent. Just because a player wants to play in the NFL doesn’t mean the league has to let him in. Remember, the NFL was taken to court back when Mike Williams and Maurice Clarett wanted to enter the draft and won. The circumstances for Pryor are far different, but the league could make Pryor sue to get into the NFL this year.

Link to article: http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Free-agents-who-wont-break-the-bank-1513.html

So it looks like we may not have to consider the draft status of Pryor any time soon, unless the NFL were to make a special exception for him.

scpanther22
06-14-2011, 12:28 PM
Do not compare (Pryor) to Cam Newton," one GM warned, describing the No. 1 overall pick as a "better, stronger, more natural thrower" than Pryor. "Newton can drive the ball." Though the two quarterbacks have comparable size, Newton is considered a far more skilled passer. Pryor is a raw athlete and the definition of a developmental project. He won't be ready to play in 2011
http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/6757/terrelle-pryor

raphael
06-14-2011, 01:55 PM
http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/6757/terrelle-pryor

Pryor have to be pretty awful to throw worse than Newton did in his workouts. I can't see that happening. TP is already working with Ochocinco and a few other NFL receivers, and they seem pretty high on his prospects. I think Rosenhaus sets up a workout and Pryor aces it.

Jamaal-Football
06-14-2011, 02:02 PM
I'm pretty sure raphael is Terrelle Pryor's dad or something.

BlockO22
06-14-2011, 03:12 PM
here is the entire press conference from today.... Drew Rosenhaus is the best... you will get a few laughs from this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5pSv1vD2MQ

SickwithIt1010
06-14-2011, 03:31 PM
Rosenhaus claiming that someone will take TP in the first round....wow.

shylo3716
06-14-2011, 03:49 PM
IMO Pryor should sit this year out in all & work hard this offseason for the 2012 draft. He has nothing to lose nor "gain" for the matter.

Splat
06-14-2011, 05:15 PM
Rosenhaus claiming that someone will take TP in the first round....wow.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/06/14/rosenhaus-expects-pryor-to-be-a-first-round-pick/

“I expect [Pryor] to be a first-round pick,” Rosenhaus said. “Middle rounds for this guy?”http://www.mortuuscoleus.net/lolwut.jpg

Iamcanadian
06-14-2011, 08:09 PM
This is all wrong.


What legitimate traits does Pryor possess that make him have a legit shot to be a starting NFL QB? I'm very curious, other then running you can give him credit for. There's no reason to go into the laundry list of things he does terrible.

Make no mistake, He has a pro arm with great mobility and has been pretty accurate. Then, there is his size but unlike Mallett or a McGuire, he has real mobility even though he is a large man.
Of course, we won't see him go through a post season or have the opportunity to workout with pro coaches so he can impress at pro days or the combine. So I don't expect him to go round 1 but round 2 IMO but perhaps round 3 are realistic possibilities.
I don't think he can just step in and play, he is a project who unfortunately, chose a poor college to prepare him for the next level. He will need real time to adjust to the pro game but in 2 years, he has the physical tools to become a starting NFL QB with a pretty high ceiling.

Also, Michigan wasn't an ideal location to learn how to be an NFL QB. Neither was Auburn, or Florida. Ohio St? Those are just excuses. Ryan Mallett couldn't make round 2, and Pryor isn't even close to becoming that good of a QB, and Mallett has a ton of things he needs to correct. Ohio St has a ton of pro style reads, so it seems like your just trying to say he should be a round 2 pick without any evidence to show why.

I agree totally about Michigan but Auburn and Florida at least run throwing offenses. They both produced 1st round QB's.
It isn't just an excuse, Tressell ran a very conservative offenses which IMO, inhibited Pryor from developing as a thrower. Tressell much preferred to run the ball but he recruited Pryor so he had no choice but to pass but I don't think Tressell really enjoyed that kind of offense and he had zero experience in preparing a QB for professional football.


Mind you this is all just based on his tools. Let alone his attitude and off the field issues.

His tools are just fine and I really don't think the pros care one iota about a college athlete taking money to play. It didn't hurt Bush or Quinn and it won't influence GM's about Pryor either.
People who bring up the fact he took money are just blowing in the wind, the pros won't downgrade him one bit for doing it.
IMO, he had 1st round potential going into his final season, that doesn't mean he was guaranteed to be a 1st rounder, only that the potential was there if he had a solid senior season and looked good in the post season.
Without that I expect him to go in round 2 or 3, it is based purely on his potential as a possible starting NFL QB sometime in the future if he can adjust well to the pro game.
The simple fact is, QB's with pro potential are in demand and if GM's and scouts feel Pryor has any real potential, he will be drafted higher than people expect.

Splat
06-14-2011, 08:51 PM
why is it so hard?

http://roflrazzi.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/funny-celebrity-pictures-thats-what-she-said.jpg

gice1212
06-14-2011, 10:45 PM
You can pick a small slice of any player's film to elevate or diminish him. That was an ugly loss for Pryor and OSU against a very good team. One of only four for Terrelle in 35 games as a starter. You see some bad and some good, which is about what you expect from a 21 year old QB. But, OVER THE SEASON, he had about the same numbers as Newton (first overall pick), and OVER HIS CAREER the same numbers as Vince Young (third overall pick). Pryor was younger, smarter, and a better athlete than either of those two when he did it. Fifth round? Even if they draft him strictly as a receiver he is worth a lot more than that. Same measurables as Matt Jones, and Jones was a pretty good NFL receiver when the coke took over.

His numbers similar. His running ability similar. His Throwing skills, not even close. Yeah I'd love the kid as a wide out or even Tight End if he toughens up, but he does not even compare to Cam as a quarterback. I don't know where people get the notion that he has incredible arm strength because he does not. You think this kid will ever be able to throw a 15 yard out on a rope to his receiver on the sidelines?...If you say yes you have to be kidding yourself.

raphael
06-14-2011, 11:00 PM
His numbers similar. His running ability similar. His Throwing skills, not even close. Yeah I'd love the kid as a wide out or even Tight End if he toughens up, but he does not even compare to Cam as a quarterback. I don't know where people get the notion that he has incredible arm strength because he does not. You think this kid will ever be able to throw a 15 yard out on a rope to his receiver on the sidelines?...If you say yes you have to be kidding yourself.

I don't think anyone said Pryor had "incredible arm strength", but I haven't heard anyone mention it as a problem, either. Newton was fourth among the prospects they put the radar gun on at the Combine, and he looked brutal in the filmed workouts I saw of him as far as accuracy is concerned. I don't see that Pryor could be worse. Different players get the job done in different ways, depending on their skill set. Tebow got all sorts of bad publicity for his passing style and arm strength, but he was as effective as any quarterback in college and any rookie NFL quarterback last season.

Brothgar
06-14-2011, 11:37 PM
Rosenhaus claiming that someone will take TP in the first round....wow.

http://www.profootballparody.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/Davis8Ball.jpg

Yes I believe I've found "someone" seen here with his second most trusted scout.

Brothgar
06-14-2011, 11:41 PM
I don't think anyone said Pryor had "incredible arm strength", but I haven't heard anyone mention it as a problem, either. Newton was fourth among the prospects they put the radar gun on at the Combine, and he looked brutal in the filmed workouts I saw of him as far as accuracy is concerned. I don't see that Pryor could be worse. Different players get the job done in different ways, depending on their skill set. Tebow got all sorts of bad publicity for his passing style and arm strength, but he was as effective as any quarterback in college and any rookie NFL quarterback last season.

Just because Josh McDaniel made the worlds worst mistake by letting his ego get in the way of a good football decision doesn't mean that someone will make the same mistake with Pryor.

I can honestly say that Tebow is a better prospect than Pryor. At least Tebow has elite level intangibles. What does Pryor have? Speedzzz? Terrible thrower and not amazing in the intangibles either.

FUNBUNCHER
06-14-2011, 11:41 PM
I don't think anyone said Pryor had "incredible arm strength", but I haven't heard anyone mention it as a problem, either. Newton was fourth among the prospects they put the radar gun on at the Combine, and he looked brutal in the filmed workouts I saw of him as far as accuracy is concerned. I don't see that Pryor could be worse. Different players get the job done in different ways, depending on their skill set. Tebow got all sorts of bad publicity for his passing style and arm strength, but he was as effective as any quarterback in college and any rookie NFL quarterback last season.

That radar gun test at the combine is a BS test.

Mallett I think was like fourth among participating QBs and we all know that Ryan has a bazooka attached to his shoulder.

To be so man-sized, Terrelle has a fairly pedestrian arm, and in no way has he displayed Newton's arm strength on game days. Pryor floats footballs when he has to throw more than 20 yards downfield.

Also, he's nowhere near the runner that Newton was at Auburn, not that it matters in the pros but I hate that argument in Pryor's favor.

If you like TP as a pro prospect at QB, all good, but he most of all needed this last season at OSU to demonstrate he'd made improvements in his overall game.

Newton dominated the best defensive conference in football last season. Hope you saw the raping Alabama did to Michigan State in their bowl game, then think back to what Cam and the Auburn Tigers did to that same squad at home in Tuscaloosa.

They just aren't really similar QB prospects beyond broad measurables.

TP has been a very good college QB for the Buckeyes, but most guys who ever suited up for Ohio State have been 'effective QBs'.

raphael
06-14-2011, 11:57 PM
Kaepernick was second. So it does seem to jive with naked eye perception. Ochocinco seemed to think that Pryor's arm was plenty strong enough when he caught his passes today. Och has been around a few NFL quarterbacks and has a basis to judge.

Tebow WAS a good pick where he was taken. There is about a 90% chance he is the Bronco's starting quarterback this year, and Orton and Quinn are no slouches. You get that from the back end of the first round and you cannot complain. Tim had the best passer rating of any rookie QB last year, and in the three games he started, outrushed all the rookie running backs as well.

Redruckus81
06-15-2011, 12:17 AM
Kaepernick was second. So it does seem to jive with naked eye perception. Ochocinco seemed to think that Pryor's arm was plenty strong enough when he caught his passes today. Och has been around a few NFL quarterbacks and has a basis to judge.

Tebow WAS a good pick where he was taken. There is about a 90% chance he is the Bronco's starting quarterback this year, and Orton and Quinn are no slouches. You get that from the back end of the first round and you cannot complain. Tim had the best passer rating of any rookie QB last year, and in the three games he started, outrushed all the rookie running backs as well.

Brady Quinn is the very definition of a slouch and the only reason Orton wont be the starter is because Denver seems to be more interested with getting their young QB on the field rather than actually putting the better player out there and your statement about him outrushing all the rookie RBs isnt even remotely close to true

raphael
06-15-2011, 12:21 AM
Brady Quinn is the very definition of a slouch and the only reason Orton wont be the starter is because Denver seems to be more interested with getting their young QB on the field rather than actually putting the better player out there and your statement about him outrushing all the rookie RBs isnt even remotely close to true

Last three games of the season when Tebow started I'm pretty sure he had as many rushing yards as any rookie RB.

Cudders
06-15-2011, 12:22 AM
I am extremely confident that Terrelle Pryor will not be a starting quarterback in the NFL in five years and I personally wouldn't touch him with a supplemental pick until the sixth or seventh round depending on the situation. Even then, it wouldn't be anything more than a flier on a H/W/S project. As an Ohio State fan, I don't understand what some people see in him as a quarterback. Sure, he has a decent enough arm and is tough to bring down as a runner when he gets moving. Since when does that make him a quarterback at the highest level? His deep ball floats, his accuracy is erratic, his mechanics need to be tightened up quite a bit, he stares down his favorite receivers all the time, he was never really asked to make split-second decisions in Columbus, and the NFL already views him as a character risk with an attitude problem, fair or not.

That said, I'm confident some team is going to overdraft him based on his physical gifts. If he gets his priorities straight and dedicates himself to to being a football player instead of a celebrity, I think he could develop a nice niche in the NFL as a dangerous specialist teams can roll out in the redzone.

Tebow WAS a good pick where he was taken. There is about a 90% chance he is the Bronco's starting quarterback this year, and Orton and Quinn are no slouches.

We don't know if Tebow was a good pick where he was taken. All you've got to base that on right now is a very small sample of games. Only time will tell if Tebow was the right call for Denver. But, when it comes to the NFL Draft, one poor decision doesn't justify another poor decision.

And, as a sidenote, Brady Quinn isn't a slouch. He's an absolute bum. How that dude has hung onto his roster spot is simply beyond me. It must be because he looks good holding a clipboard. Because he hasn't shown anything as a quarterback aside from the ability to find his checkdown upon snapping the ball.

FUNBUNCHER
06-15-2011, 12:48 AM
i should've figured it out sooner. blaine gabbert was and always will be utter garbage. natural got himself suspended. now he's created a new account so that he can stealthily fellate his new favorite player, although i'm sure he thinks he's doing it ironically, in mockery of everyone who he thought loved newton.

what's really funny is that i didn't make any of the above up. every IP address was an exact match.

now that you know the caliber of troll you're all arguing with, here's hoping you all stop responding.

Had to rep you for the sleuthing, njx9!!

Something smelled awfully familiar about raphael.

Textbook troll.

Everything he hated about Newton is AWESOME for TP!!!lol

niel89
06-15-2011, 01:08 AM
Gabbert still is garbage :D

We need to just walk away from the natural.

bucknut12
06-15-2011, 01:26 AM
Wow I can't believe I read this entire thread.

raphael - your stat comparisons are at the level of saying colt brennan and graham harrell should be drafted high because of their stats (spare everyone the system qb response).

I regard myself a realist OSU fan who felt Pryor had a legit yet tough opportunity to develop under Tress as a NFL QB prospect. The guy just never progressed as quickly as he should have. He really needed his full senior year to keep developing to have a chance to become a legit prospect. Pryor was nowhere near refined as a QB as Troy Smith with the little details of the position. Simply, he should've ran the football and played as physical as Newton, but doesn't. He is a gamer in his own right, but it just didn't translate performance wise as well as Newton or VY.

Name me the top 5 games Pryor played. As a NFL prospect, NOT A BOX SCORE STATISTIC, those top 5 games don't stack up to prospects in the past who went in the first round, let alone the 2nd (besides pat white), and most of the 3rd round.

Oh and add in the ego/personality. Wouldn't touch him with a 39 & a half foot pole.

MucBuc
06-15-2011, 04:40 AM
Last three games of the season when Tebow started I'm pretty sure he had as many rushing yards as any rookie RB.

340 yards LeGarrette Blount
231 yards Ryan Mathews
199 yards Tim Tebow

gice1212
06-15-2011, 09:35 AM
Kaepernick was second. So it does seem to jive with naked eye perception. Ochocinco seemed to think that Pryor's arm was plenty strong enough when he caught his passes today. Och has been around a few NFL quarterbacks and has a basis to judge.



Ocho is represented by Rosenhaus (the guy who yesterday said Pryor will be a first round pick) also so you can't take anything he said seriously. Pryor has no zip on any of his balls, I just have a lot of trouble seeing him as an NFL QB unless a team has A LOT of trust in their QB coach and a few years to wait. His stats and size may be similar but his Quarterback game and skills are not,

LonghornsLegend
06-15-2011, 12:49 PM
I love how he keeps bringing up comparisons to Vince Young, Cam Newton, and Tim Tebow when Pryon isn't even in the same planet in terms of QB development. Yes Tebow needed work, still does, but guess what? You knew when you drafted him that without a doubt he'd put 200% into getting better, and had no doubts about him leading a team.


As far as VY or Newton, both guys were far more evolved as a QB. But hey, they are all black, big, fast and were drafted high, thus meaning the same should happen for Pryor. Oh yea, statzzzz.

bucfan12
06-15-2011, 02:10 PM
Pryor is an Al Davis type of pick. He can sit behind Campbell for a year or 2 and develop, however I don't see Pryor developing into even an average starting QB who will be out of the league in 3-4 years, kind of like Jamarcus Russell.

If scouts believe Vince Young won't make it as a starting NFL QB, then Pryor has absolutely no shot. People say he has a cannon for an arm, but the velocity on his throws are well below the standards of an NFL QB. He seems like a douche bag and honestly, can't see him leading or being the face of an NFL franchise. He is a great talent and thats why the Raiders will be the ONLY team that puts in a 4th-5th round bid in the Supplemental draft.

MidwayMonster31
06-15-2011, 02:28 PM
Rosenhaus' comment is obviously a smokescreen, like most other agents would do, trying to drive up the price. I don't know much about his work ethic, but I have a hard time seeing Pryor play well week in and week out. As far as his good bowl games, it's easier when you have a month to prepare for a defense and it's not like he was facing elite defenses either. I don't think he will get the mental part of playing quarterback.
As far as VY goes, the only thing that really stopped him was how mentally unstable he was.

cmarq83
06-15-2011, 05:04 PM
If I was Pryor I'd try and switch to WR right away. It's fairly obvious from watching a little film that the guy simply doesn't have what it takes to be an NFL QB. He floats too many of his passes, and despite having supposedly elite measurables he has never really been that outstanding of a scrambler.

The Jaguars took Matt Jones in the 1st round who has virtually identical combine numbers as we expect from Pryor. Since it's the subplemental draft I would expect him to go much later probably around the 4th round, but it would give him a better chance to make a little more money and potentially stick to an NFL roster. Jones almost figured out the whole Tall QB~Tall WR conversion before substance abuse issues derailed his career. I think Pryor could figure it out and at least provide some measure of value as an NFL receiver provided he can actually catch the ball. Even if he has a career like Jones he'd still be worth about a 4th rounder.

OSUGiants17
06-15-2011, 05:48 PM
Can someone please tell me why Cam Newton and his one year of superb play makes him a safer and better pick than Pryor who has similar measurables, a better record, multiple championships/bowl games, is proven and has a better arm?

gice1212
06-15-2011, 06:09 PM
Can someone please tell me why Cam Newton and his one year of superb play makes him a safer and better pick than Pryor who has similar measurables, a better record, multiple championships/bowl games, is proven and has a better arm?

Cam showed that he can make every throw during his "one year of superb play". Watch the two play, they have similar size but are very different other than that. They have completely different arms, and even very different running styles as Pryor rarely lowered his shoulder despite being bigger than most people on the field.

FUNBUNCHER
06-15-2011, 06:21 PM
Can someone please tell me why Cam Newton and his one year of superb play makes him a safer and better pick than Pryor who has similar measurables, a better record, multiple championships/bowl games, is proven and has a better arm?


Stronger arm?? Terrelle Pryor??

When's the last time TP dropped back in the pocket, rocked back his throwing arm and ripped the ball to a WR against tight coverage??

My guess is....NEVER. Too often Terrelle 'pushes' passes instead of whipping his arm and throwing the damn football. He's tentative in his reads, (doesn't trust what he sees unless a WR is open by at least several yards), and has trouble surveying the field IMO.

TP has a great W-L record at OSU, without question, but too often Pryor has compiled gaudy stats against the Ohios and Marshalls of college football, but when he plays the best teams on their schedule, like Wisconsin and Iowa, Pryor looks like a supremely flawed prospect.

The reason IMO Newton was better in ONE SEASON than Pryor has been in 3 is because there's no way I believe Pryor could have led Auburn to an undefeated record.

When Newton played the best of the best in the SEC, he was still the dominant player on the football field.

How many Ohio State games have you come away thinking, TP is the BEST player in the game??

My impression when Ohio State wins, it's the TEAM that won, not because of something Pryor specifically did.
I'll give him credit in his bowl games, that's a big part of the reason I think some team will try to see if he can be developed as a QB.

TP's record as a starter is misleading, and when you're talking about QB prospects, how you win/lose games IMO is more important than the final score.

BTW, I don't know what NFL franchise looks at TP and believes they NEED him on their football team to win games.

To me he looks like strictly a developmental prospect, in which case he could be drafted late by almost anyone.

Remember, if Pryor was this ALL WORLD prospect, he would have declared at the end of last season and been selected high in the first round.

cmarq83
06-15-2011, 06:41 PM
Can someone please tell me why Cam Newton and his one year of superb play makes him a safer and better pick than Pryor who has similar measurables, a better record, multiple championships/bowl games, is proven and has a better arm?

I don't really understand how Pryor is somehow proven/has a better record/has a better arm than Newton. There isn't really a better way to prove yourself in College than to win a national championship, if you mean proven in terms of running a more pro style offense there was still a ton of chintzy spread type stuff at Ohio State. Both guys are largely unproven in pro style offenses.

The measureables may be similar, but Newton uses his natural ability more fluidly. He is a better runner than Pryor and has sufficient girth to absorb tacklers better than Pryor. He may run a slower 40 time, but on the field he looks just as fast, and my eyes tell me that he's more agile than Pryor.

I don't really see how Terrelle Pryor has a better arm than Cam Newton. He floats his passes way too often, whereas Cam puts a much tighter spiral and more velocity on his passes than Pryor. When watching games of Newton you would frequently see him throw passes which were NFL type throws whereas Pryor while often successful looked more like an unrefined spread quarterback whose arm was his secondary weapon behind his legs. He was successful to an extent passing, but I was far more impressed by Newton's deep passing.

In terms of character issues neither of these guys are choir boys, but at least Newton grew up a little bit after being a punk at Florida. In terms of NCAA violations at least he had the intelligence to cover his tracks (if he was actually involved) through his father rather than flaunting it around public like Pryor did. Pryor essentially brought down the OSU program, whereas Newton took it to the top.

I'm not a huge fan of either guy and generally think Newton was picked too high, but at least when I watched Newton I saw a guy who has potential to be a good QB in the NFL. With Pryor I see a guy who looks the part on the outside, but when you actually see him play football he is clearly not the same dominant guy on the field as Newton is.

PossibleCabbage
06-15-2011, 07:16 PM
The major difference between Pryor and Newton is that Pryor doesn't have the arm strength to make all the NFL throws while Newton does, Pryor is a much more inaccurate passer than Newton, and Pryor is even less comfortable in the pocket than Newton. Neither guy can read a defense, both played primarily "one look and go" passing concepts. I'm not a fan of either guy, but Newton is far, far, far better as a QB prospect.

In terms of "athletic QBs" in the last draft, Pryor is well behind Newton, Locker, and Kaepernick IMO. I would put him at about the same level as, and probably a little ahead of, Tyrod Taylor. The tradeoff is that Pryor is bigger than Taylor, but Taylor's intangibles are vastly superior.

underscore
06-15-2011, 07:54 PM
Drew Rosenhaus, agent for Ohio State QB Terrelle Pryor, said he expects Pryor to be taken in the first round of the 2011 NFL Supplemental Draft. "He is one of the most gifted quarterbacks that the NFL has seen. For anyone who questions where he's going to be drafted, I expect him to be a first-round pick in the supplemental draft," Rosenhaus said.

Read more: http://www.kffl.com/hotw/NFL#ixzz1PObuAARe

princefielder28
06-15-2011, 08:00 PM
Drew Rosenhaus, agent for Ohio State QB Terrelle Pryor, said he expects Pryor to be taken in the first round of the 2011 NFL Supplemental Draft. "He is one of the most gifted quarterbacks that the NFL has seen. For anyone who questions where he's going to be drafted, I expect him to be a first-round pick in the supplemental draft," Rosenhaus said.

Read more: http://www.kffl.com/hotw/NFL#ixzz1PObuAARe

just an agent doing his job...those statements have no value outside of that

bucfan12
06-15-2011, 08:53 PM
Cam Newton shouldn't have been picked that high either. However, he does have a stronger arm than Pryor, but Pryor didn't play in a gimmick offense, which is where I'd give him an advantage over Cam Newton.

If anything, Pryor is more pro ready than Cam, however I don't see either of them panning out into Franchise QBs.

FUNBUNCHER
06-15-2011, 09:02 PM
If Pryor had declared after the season ended, IMO he would have been taken no later than the 4th round.

Now, if he's taken by the 4th round in the supplemental, it will be a mild surprise.

Roddoliver
06-15-2011, 10:39 PM
I think Pryor makes a lot of sense to the Raiders as a player. They have Campbell as a frail #1 QB and Pryor would be the perfect developmental guy. He is a great athlete and Al Davis loves that. But his character is a concern, and the Raiders are paying more attention to character issues after what happened to Russell. From what I've seen, they are investing the higher picks in good guys that make no trouble.

People question his arm strenght and ability to drive the ball, but I think it's good enough and he can throw deep. What he has as a positive is his experience under system, he is not just a shotgun QB.

JoeJoeBrown
06-15-2011, 11:50 PM
I think Pryor makes a lot of sense to the Raiders as a player. They have Campbell as a frail #1 QB and Pryor would be the perfect developmental guy. He is a great athlete and Al Davis loves that. But his character is a concern, and the Raiders are paying more attention to character issues after what happened to Russell. From what I've seen, they are investing the higher picks in good guys that make no trouble.

People question his arm strenght and ability to drive the ball, but I think it's good enough and he can throw deep. What he has as a positive is his experience under system, he is not just a shotgun QB.

Pryor is nothing like Russell. He's not going to get fat. He may be a knucklehead, but he's far from lazy.

As an OSU fan, Pryor was frustrating. At times he would make some great throws and some good reads. Actually hit his 2nd or 3rd read.

However, under pressure, he would panic. I think he folds under pocket pressure, at least wrt recognizing it and diagnosing what the best course of action should be (i.e. hit the hot route, bail and run, shuffle to wear the pocket is strongest to buy more time for another WR to open up).

Dunno if you can teach that. Sometimes these things click with guys and sometimes they don't. His poor mechanics have improved a lot from the early days, but he still has bad form. Again, it gets worse under pressure.

He is a much better QB on the run. This doesn't bode well for his prospects as an NFL QB, IMO. Good college teams figured this out and brought contain heat. I.e. pressure him from both sides, if he was going to run, it would have to be up the middle where he doesn't throw as well.

Some of you guys that haven't seen much of him aren't giving him enough credit for his scrambling and outright speed for his size. He isn't quick, but he is fast, especially for his size.

WRT his deep ball, for the most part, it blows. He arms it most of the time. Every once in awhile he'd chuck a great looking deep ball where his whole body was in sync, but that wasn't too often.

The mechanics can be corrected, and he has displayed sporadically that he is learning the right things. I think he can eventually be consistently accurate, especially on mid range routes. He has a poor touch on short passes. Way too strong/high most of the time.

Again, I think the biggest issue with the guy is going to be panicing under pressure. This is what all good QBs excel at handling. I don't think it's likely to be corrected at the NFL level. The panicing causes him to lose his cool as well. Very immature in that respect.

With that in mind, I think he has a lot of value as a Wildcat H-Back type of guy. Someone that can line up at several positions. I think he has the tools to excel at that. He's no rocket scientist, but he's not VY level stupid either. He just panics and makes poor decision due to that.

Redruckus81
06-17-2011, 05:13 PM
Last three games of the season when Tebow started I'm pretty sure he had as many rushing yards as any rookie RB.

thats your arguement? Thats just sad and pathetic

raphael
06-18-2011, 12:53 AM
thats your arguement? Thats just sad and pathetic

At NFL Fantasy football they say that Tebow was the highest rated offensive player in the league over the last three games of the season. Which were the only three games that Tebow played full time. Not sure how you expect the guy to do better than that in the first three games of his career.

FUNBUNCHER
06-18-2011, 01:01 AM
NFL Fantasy football!?????

raphael
06-18-2011, 01:14 AM
NFL Fantasy football!?????

That is where fans pick players that they think will score points for them through being HIGHLY EFFECTIVE at passing, running, and scoring. Combining those three factors in OFFENSIVE PRODUCTION, rookie TIM TEBOW, was THE BEST IN THE LEAGUE, during the ONLY THREE GAMES HE PLAYED FULL TIME. The first three starts of his NFL career.

Try it sometime Fun, if you haven't already.

niel89
06-18-2011, 05:19 AM
Fantasy Football isn't and never will be a good way of debating how good a player actually is.

raphael
06-18-2011, 05:14 PM
Fantasy Football isn't and never will be a good way of debating how good a player actually is.

If you lead the Fantasy leagues in points for a week, or a month, or whatever, that's a pretty good indication you're having success. I don't play them, but it seems obvious to me that you have to be doing something right.

phlysac
06-18-2011, 05:19 PM
Trap card?

Monomach
06-18-2011, 06:30 PM
If you lead the Fantasy leagues in points for a week, or a month, or whatever, that's a pretty good indication you're having success. I don't play them, but it seems obvious to me that you have to be doing something right.

Quarterback who throws for 300 yards with 4 touchdowns and 10 interceptions is a fantasy monster in some leagues, so no.

PossibleCabbage
06-18-2011, 07:53 PM
Quarterback who throws for 300 yards with 4 touchdowns and 10 interceptions is a fantasy monster in some leagues, so no.

Not only that but fantasy stats by position are often determined by circumstances that have nothing to do with the quality of the player. Being ahead a lot means your RB is going to score more points, since you're trying to kill clock. Being behind a lot means your QBs and WRs are going to score a lot more points since you're in "comeback" mode a lot.

For example, the Texans being consistently towards the bottom of the NFL in scoring defense has a lot to do with why Matt Schaub is such a monster in fantasy, yet the Texans aren't close to being contenders.