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View Full Version : Positional free agency discussion: DL


killxswitch
06-14-2011, 02:03 PM
Now that it looks like we'll have a full preseason if not a full offseason, let's talk about free agents, how they stack up against each other, and who your team should look at. 1 thread for all free agents might be too much so I'm looking at DL first as it's my favorite set of positions in football.

Top 5 DEs:

Charles Johnson - had a breakout season for the Panthers w/11.5 sacks and not much help from teammates on the line with him. Still very young. He stands to get a really nice 2nd contract.

Cullen Jenkins - maybe injury prone and he's 30 but when healthy he is a great 5 tech with pass rushing skills. Could play DT in a 4-3.

Mathias Kiwanuka - one of the Giants' 3 billion pass rushing DEs, he can also play LB in the right scheme. His athleticism and versatility should land him a good contract.

Jason Babin - I'm concerned he only just now played up to his potential so he could get a good contract. But you can't say he wasn't effective in '10. Remember back when VY was done being a headcase and Tennessee had a top 5 defense?

Cliff Avril - He's a RFA but I want to mention him because no one talks about him. He's got 4.5 speed and IMO will start making some noise as one of the better pass rushing 4-3 DEs next season. Of course playing next to Suh, Fairley, and KVB will help.

Other notables - Ray Edwards, Shaun Ellis, Kendric Golston, Marcus Spears, Dave Ball, Mark Anderson

Top 5 DTs

Haloti Ngata - The tag will probably stick but he's worth mentioning he is a ******* beast. And I needed a 5th DT to include.

Aubrayo Franklin - Getting up there in years but still has a lot of value for a team looking for that missing piece. Seems like he'd be effective as a 3-4 or 4-3 NT.

Brandon Mebane - I don't watch many Eagles Seahawks (wrong bird, sorry) games but from what I've heard and read he is pretty underrated. Good run stopping anchor at 4-3 NT. Seattle only put a 3rd round tender on him, and who knows if that will stick anyway.

Barry Cofield - The Giants can't afford to re-sign him so if he's not a RFA he will get a good 2nd contract elsewhere. He's a good (not great) 4-3 NT that has helped the Giants sack the crap out of QBs for several seasons. He's durable and does his job well. Lot's of speculation he'll join Spags and Fred Robbins in STL.

Alan Branch - He's been a bust for most of his career (as much as a 2nd rounder can be a bust) but last year in particular it seems like a light turned on for him. He's in better shape, playing harder, and making more tackles. He plays DE in the AZ 3-4 but could play NT in either a 3-4 or 4-3.

Other notables - Pat Williams, John Henderson, Antonio Johnson

Nalej
06-14-2011, 02:21 PM
M. Kiwi to NE is my wet dream at the moment.
I hope he clears medically.

killxswitch
06-15-2011, 08:56 AM
M. Kiwi to NE is my wet dream at the moment.
I hope he clears medically.

He would add a serious pass rush threat to the Pats D for sure. Though BB hasn't seemed too concerned with that lately. I was really surprised at his drafting this year.

bucfan12
06-15-2011, 10:35 AM
Kiwi is going to be a steal. Had 4 sacks in 2 games last year before injury. He won't come at a pricey contract and the Giants already have Tuck and JPP.

Kiwi can play both OLB in a 3-4 and RDE in the 4-3. Look for Cleveland to go after him, along with St. Louis.

Carolina needs all the help and talent they can get on their d-line and team, so Charles Johnson isn't going anywhere, unless their FO is really that stupid.

YAYareaRB
06-15-2011, 10:37 AM
Brandon Mebane is on the Seahawks but yes, very underrated

falloutboy14
06-15-2011, 10:48 AM
Kiwi can play both OLB in a 3-4 and RDE in the 4-3. Look for Cleveland to go after him, along with St. Louis.

You think St. Louis will end up with Quinn, Chris Long & Kiwi? Do you see Chris Long as a 3-tech or a 3-man rotation at DE.


Also. What's Green Bays D-line depth look like? Are they deep at D-line where they could lose Jenkins and keep going? Remember them being deep, but someone was having substance problems.

Malaka
06-15-2011, 10:52 AM
I have my doubts Kiwi leaves New York, that neck injury was really serious and could have possibly been his career. The common consensus around the Giants is that they will offer him a one year deal to see if he can still produce, and the injury isn't lingering.

Even after that, if Kiwi produces and has a breakout year, chances are that the Giants re-sign him over Osi.

Jughead10
06-15-2011, 11:54 AM
Agreed on Kiwi. The Giants certainly aren't hurting for money and can't afford these guys. I seriously doubt we let both Cofield and Kiwi go.

Also about playing LB in the right scheme. Buyer beware if they are going to pay him big bucks to do that. He was not very good as LB for the Giants. Granted it was in a 4-3, but with the injuries he's had, I don't see LB in a 3-4 being an easy transition.

killxswitch
06-15-2011, 02:40 PM
Brandon Mebane is on the Seahawks but yes, very underrated

Woops, my bad. "Seattle Eagles", heh. My wish list for the Colts at DT is Franklin, then Mebane, then Branch. We have several ~300 lb. undertackles that can rush the passer but aren't that stout at the point. A strong NT would really free up our LBs to make more plays and cause more turnovers, and it would allow our DBs to focus more on coverage and less on run support.

bucfan12
06-15-2011, 03:00 PM
Woops, my bad. "Seattle Eagles", heh. My wish list for the Colts at DT is Franklin, then Mebane, then Branch. We have several ~300 lb. undertackles that can rush the passer but aren't that stout at the point. A strong NT would really free up our LBs to make more plays and cause more turnovers, and it would allow our DBs to focus more on coverage and less on run support.

Franklin seems to be very high on the Washington Redskins wishlist as they need a NT in the worst way. Look for them to overpay, as usual.

bucfan12
06-15-2011, 03:02 PM
Agreed on Kiwi. The Giants certainly aren't hurting for money and can't afford these guys. I seriously doubt we let both Cofield and Kiwi go.
Also about playing LB in the right scheme. Buyer beware if they are going to pay him big bucks to do that. He was not very good as LB for the Giants. Granted it was in a 4-3, but with the injuries he's had, I don't see LB in a 3-4 being an easy transition.

You never know. The Giants d-line is very crowded. You have 3 starting caliber DEs in Osi, JPP and Tuck and the Giants are solid at DT with a rotation. Cofield could join St. Louis, where he'd start immediately and be the top DT.

DoughBoy
06-15-2011, 03:03 PM
Me thinks Babin should go back to the eagles. Jim Washburn's system is ideal for his talents, and he will be out of place in our new scheme. I would like us to take a look at Ray Edwards, Mebane or Alan Branch.... maybe even bring back Antonio Johnson? Probably just going to end up signing David Ball though... :(

Jughead10
06-15-2011, 03:12 PM
You never know. The Giants d-line is very crowded. You have 3 starting caliber DEs in Osi, JPP and Tuck and the Giants are solid at DT with a rotation. Cofield could join St. Louis, where he'd start immediately and be the top DT.

Agree about the DE depth. DT depth is another story. I think we need to hold onto Cofield unless we plan on signing someone else. Too many question marks after Canty. There is young talent, but it would be risky. Cofield would still probably be our top DT. Canty is just hurt too much to be fully trusted.

SaintsMan
06-15-2011, 03:15 PM
Cofield to the Saints please! Him and Shuan Rogers would be a nice rotation at NT.

cmarq83
06-15-2011, 03:22 PM
Could Barry Cofield play the 5 tech? I know he has the prototypical size for a 2 gap end like the Patriots run, but does his game translate to it? I've never really paid enough attention to know his strengths and weaknesses, so any info would be appreciated.

I also think Pat Williams is worth a flyer even if he can only contribute in obvious run situations. He's still virtually immovable even at his advanced age.

bigbluedefense
06-15-2011, 03:29 PM
Agree about the DE depth. DT depth is another story. I think we need to hold onto Cofield unless we plan on signing someone else. Too many question marks after Canty. There is young talent, but it would be risky. Cofield would still probably be our top DT. Canty is just hurt too much to be fully trusted.

I say we let him walk. He's going to cost way too much. And let's be honest, he was a mediocre player. He was durable, which is great, the guy never missed a game I believe, but he was a mediocre talent.

I'm just against paying mediocre talent top dollar money. Coffield is going to get a lot of coin in FA, and he's not worth it.

And honestly, in the PS, our dline looked better when Joseph was in there instead of Coffield.

I agree though that we are thin at DT. We have Canty, Joseph, and Austin, and you can say that Joseph and Austin are wildcards. Bernard is a bum, so while we have 4 DTs on the roster, we can probably use a cheap veteran for depth.

Jughead10
06-15-2011, 03:36 PM
And honestly, in the PS, our dline looked better when Joseph was in there instead of Coffield.

I agree though that we are thin at DT. We have Canty, Joseph, and Austin, and you can say that Joseph and Austin are wildcards. Bernard is a bum, so while we have 4 DTs on the roster, we can probably use a cheap veteran for depth.

1. Don't believe what you see in PS, ever.

2. In addition to wildcards, Canty is good for 10-12 game season if all 16 end up being played.

I would hope if Ngata ever hit the market, we would be in on him big.

Cudders
06-15-2011, 03:42 PM
I actually wouldn't be surprised if the Giants let both players walk. They both have produced for New York, but I imagine some team is going to overpay for their services and I don't see Jerry Reese getting lured into a bidding war over two very replaceable players. Kiwi is coming off a serious injury and, with JPP's emergence, would only steal valuable reps. Cofield is a solid depth guy to have along the line. He does his job and he does it reasonably well. But he is fairly limited to his role and losing him isn't a game-changer for the franchise. Depending on the contract he nets in free agency, I think the Giants could find a body to fill the hole at a better value. Now, if neither of these guys garners much attention, New York will probably look to bring them back as cost-effective options. But I don't think Reese is going into free agency thinking that inking Cofield and Kiwi are necessities.

niel89
06-15-2011, 03:45 PM
I feel like there is a pretty good demand out there for Kiwi. I know I would want him to come to Baltimore just to have some one how has at least some pass rush ability opposite Suggs. Kindle has been medically cleared apparently, but it never hurts to have extra rushers.

Would Kiwanuka be a good fit at 3-4 OLB? Can you Giants fans tell me a little more about his medical status too?

Jughead10
06-15-2011, 03:57 PM
I feel like there is a pretty good demand out there for Kiwi. I know I would want him to come to Baltimore just to have some one how has at least some pass rush ability opposite Suggs. Kindle has been medically cleared apparently, but it never hurts to have extra rushers.

Would Kiwanuka be a good fit at 3-4 OLB? Can you Giants fans tell me a little more about his medical status too?

He looked lost as a 4-3 OLB. That much I can tell you. You think he would be able to translate to a 3-4 OLB with his skill set, but we thought the same in a 4-3. He's had two bad injuries 2 of the last 4 years that knocked him out the year. A broken leg and a bad neck injury. He's been cleared to play, but the neck could hinder him the rest of his career.

Rosebud
06-15-2011, 04:52 PM
Kiwi is going to be a steal. Had 4 sacks in 2 games last year before injury. He won't come at a pricey contract and the Giants already have Tuck and JPP.

Kiwi can play both OLB in a 3-4 and RDE in the 4-3. Look for Cleveland to go after him, along with St. Louis.

Carolina needs all the help and talent they can get on their d-line and team, so Charles Johnson isn't going anywhere, unless their FO is really that stupid.

I think the Neck is going to be a big issue and frankly expect Kiwi to take a one year "show me you're healthy" deal for next year. Osi is still a concern due to his age, Tuck is a concern due to his injury problems and JPP is still young with a lot to learn. So Kiwi will get plenty of reps and chances to put up sacks. If someone sends him a long term deal I think he'll take that, but I just don't expect that to be the case.

Nalej
06-15-2011, 05:03 PM
Do you think he'll only take a one-year deal from the NYG's though?
'cause I can't see him getting a multi-year contract from anyone

Rosebud
06-15-2011, 05:31 PM
Do you think he'll only take a one-year deal from the NYG's though?
'cause I can't see him getting a multi-year contract from anyone

Yeah, Kiwi's a competitor and he's got a good head on his shoulders. I don't think he'll have an ego about only getting offered one year deals. Especially since he's seen the Giants be very loyal to guys who had crippling injuries, it's why Chad Jones still has a place on this team if he can ever get back to playing football and so I don't think Kiwi would have an issue taking just a one year deal. He understands he can make a lot of money for himself here if he's healthy, plus it's a scheme he's familiar with so he just has to keep doing what he was doing prior to getting hurt to make sure he has that opportunity to make a **** ton of cash.

Giantsfan1080
06-15-2011, 06:04 PM
He could also pad his stats more so on the Giants than any other team considering the talent he has around him.

killxswitch
06-15-2011, 06:58 PM
Would the Giants want him as a OLB or as a DE? I know he wants to start and I seem to remember an interview where he said he definitely preferred to play DE.

jack1077
06-15-2011, 07:35 PM
Hopefully the pack can resign Jenkins. He is worth it.

killxswitch
06-15-2011, 08:02 PM
Hopefully the pack can resign Jenkins. He is worth it.

They have a lot of other guys to sign don't they? Several LBs?

jack1077
06-15-2011, 08:11 PM
They have a lot of other guys to sign don't they? Several LBs?

Nope. Hawk renegotiated a contract for less money. Barnett has said he is willing to play for less. Clay is under contract for another 3 years i think. James Jones might get resigned (i personally don't think he will be considering they drafted Cobb). Jenkins is the last big one to sign. Go Pack Go! Unbelievably, Clay makes like 1.2 million a year. How ridiculous is that?

Maybe This Year Mayhew
06-15-2011, 08:53 PM
I like the mention of Avril. He got a 1st and 3rd tender so he's going nowhere. I hope the Lions resign him actually and keep the Dline in tact for a long time. 8 sacks in 13 games last year for Avril and most sacks from the 2008 class. Millen got one right unbelievable. KVB,Avril and Lawrence Jackson(who had a good year last year as a backup) and the Lions are set at DE if Avril is resigned. McBride wasn't bad either but he is a free agent. More LoJack on rushing downs though as Avril is a liabiltiy sometimes against the run.

Giantsfan1080
06-15-2011, 09:30 PM
Would the Giants want him as a OLB or as a DE? I know he wants to start and I seem to remember an interview where he said he definitely preferred to play DE.

Kiwi would strictly play DE for us. Once in a while we might have him drop back but that's not anything new. The LB experiment for Kiwi is over as a Giant.

killxswitch
06-16-2011, 09:32 AM
I like the mention of Avril. He got a 1st and 3rd tender so he's going nowhere. I hope the Lions resign him actually and keep the Dline in tact for a long time. 8 sacks in 13 games last year for Avril and most sacks from the 2008 class. Millen got one right unbelievable. KVB,Avril and Lawrence Jackson(who had a good year last year as a backup) and the Lions are set at DE if Avril is resigned. McBride wasn't bad either but he is a free agent. More LoJack on rushing downs though as Avril is a liabiltiy sometimes against the run.

Plus KVB is old and can't play forever. Avril should be a valuable player for the Lions for many seasons to come. It would not surprise me to see the two switch sides on the DL eventually.

Nope. Hawk renegotiated a contract for less money. Barnett has said he is willing to play for less. Clay is under contract for another 3 years i think. James Jones might get resigned (i personally don't think he will be considering they drafted Cobb). Jenkins is the last big one to sign. Go Pack Go! Unbelievably, Clay makes like 1.2 million a year. How ridiculous is that?

I hope the Claymaker doesn't hurt himself. GB is getting a bargain with him. Not sure what made me think the Packers had other FAs to sign, I guess they are in good shape to retain Jenkins.

Can any AZ fans (if there are any) chime in on Branch? I know he made strides as a DE in the AZ 3-4 but how would that translate to other 3-4 teams, and to a traditional 4-3 DT role?

jack1077
06-16-2011, 03:54 PM
Plus KVB is old and can't play forever. Avril should be a valuable player for the Lions for many seasons to come. It would not surprise me to see the two switch sides on the DL eventually.



I hope the Claymaker doesn't hurt himself. GB is getting a bargain with him. Not sure what made me think the Packers had other FAs to sign, I guess they are in good shape to retain Jenkins.

I really think GB should go after Sproles in free agency. He is going to be inexpensive and give them a huge pass catching threat at RB + KR and PR. Imagine Rodgers throwing too Jennings, Driver, Nelson, Cobb and Sproles. Damn that would be explosive. I actually hope they pay Clay soon so he doesn't get pissed off. Though, i'm sure he is doing alright for himself with the shirts and commercials.

d34ng3l021
06-18-2011, 04:12 PM
The Panthers franchised Ryan Kalil, but does anyone know if Charles Johnson has signed a 1st and 3rd round tender?

If he miraculously hits FA, he better ******* go to the Falcons. TD knows the team needs pass rushers and a former Georgia Dawg would love to play with the up and coming Falcons. He would is the missing piece right now.

killxswitch
06-20-2011, 08:51 AM
The Panthers franchised Ryan Kalil, but does anyone know if Charles Johnson has signed a 1st and 3rd round tender?

If he miraculously hits FA, he better ******* go to the Falcons. TD knows the team needs pass rushers and a former Georgia Dawg would love to play with the up and coming Falcons. He would is the missing piece right now.

He has 4 years in so he will probably be an unrestricted free agent when the new CBA is put in place. Who knows where he'll sign. There is speculation that NFL teams will get a window of time to re-sign their own free agents first.

sfhdweb3
06-22-2011, 05:36 AM
I hope he clears medically.
High school diploma online (http://www.sandfordhighschool.com/)

PACKmanN
06-22-2011, 08:24 AM
Jenkins plays DE in both the 3-4 or 4-3

BlindSite
06-22-2011, 07:54 PM
The Panthers franchised Ryan Kalil, but does anyone know if Charles Johnson has signed a 1st and 3rd round tender?

If he miraculously hits FA, he better ******* go to the Falcons. TD knows the team needs pass rushers and a former Georgia Dawg would love to play with the up and coming Falcons. He would is the missing piece right now.

Not to burn your biscuits but according to the projected cap figure, the Panthers are something like 70 million under the cap, 2nd only to Tampa, Charles Johnson is going to get locked up for a long time if he's a UFA, same with Kalil, long term deals are comin' for both once the CBA clears, Hurney has hinted at it pretty massively.

Even if Laptops Newton commands massive money depending on what happens with a rookie cap or not, there'll be a huge amount in the kitty. For the crap the team's gone through in the last two years, they were pretty much waiting for the new deal to come through, disgruntled players to be on the market and a chance to put their war-chest to use.

I expect Kalil, Johnson and Thomas Davis to be signed to long term deals and at least two or three free agents to be acquired.



Cullen Jenkins is a massive piece of the GB defense he had a huge amount of pressures on QBs last year even if he didn't get great sacks, a big part of the success of the guys around him is a direct result of his ability to collapse the pocket and disrupt from the interior.

Splat
06-22-2011, 08:09 PM
I could see the Chiefs going after Cullen Jenkins if they didn't have so much money wrapped up in Tyson Jackson fail...

BlindSite
06-22-2011, 08:17 PM
Dallas $136.60
Green Bay $129.80
New York J $128.50
New York G $126.30
Denver $125.00
Houston $118.40
Pittsburgh $116.00
Indianapolis $115.50
Washington $115.20
Detroit $113.80
Minnesota $108.40
Tennessee $107.40
New Orleans $105.20
Chicago $104.90
Miami $103.10
St. Louis $102.40
New England $102.30
Atlanta $102.10
Baltimore $101.30
San Francisco $100.90
Cleveland $99.20
Buffalo $96.40
Cincinnati $90.70
Oakland $85.80
San Diego $85.80
Arizona $83.00
Seattle $81.10
Philadelphia $80.80
Jacksonville $78.10
Kansas City $74.70
Carolina $73.00
Tampa Bay $59.70

KC could easily afford him.

wordofi
06-22-2011, 08:34 PM
Alan Branch[/B] - He's been a bust for most of his career (as much as a 2nd rounder can be a bust) but last year in particular it seems like a light turned on for him. He's in better shape, playing harder, and making more tackles. He plays DE in the AZ 3-4 but could play NT in either a 3-4 or 4-3.

Get back to me when he weighs 315 lbs. He said back in 2007 that he'd like to be around that weight. There's no reason he can't make that weight. I'll start to buy into him when he can do that. The talent is definitely there, however.

Splat
06-22-2011, 09:06 PM
KC could easily afford him.

Yes they could but they won't do it. They all ready have two DE's making top five draft pick money they are not going to pay CJ.

Ness
06-23-2011, 12:23 AM
It will be interesting to see where Aubrayo Franklin goes. He's really come on strong in the last few years and developed into one of the better, and more underrated nose tackles in the game. Especially in the 3-4. It would be awesome if he stays, but I think he's going to be looking for a massive deal to sink his teeth into. Shame, we'll be losing a great piece to our defense on the verge of a new coaching regime.

killxswitch
06-23-2011, 07:47 AM
It will be interesting to see where Aubrayo Franklin goes. He's really come on strong in the last few years and developed into one of the better, and more underrated nose tackles in the game. Especially in the 3-4. It would be awesome if he stays, but I think he's going to be looking for a massive deal to sink his teeth into. Shame, we'll be losing a great piece to our defense on the verge of a new coaching regime.

According to the cap list a few posts ago SF is pretty far under the cap. I bet they'll re-sign him. Hasn't he followed your DC pretty much everywhere the last few years? I guess he might go chase a ring but it would not surprise me at all to see him stay with the 9ers.

niel89
06-23-2011, 03:22 PM
Well the 49ers just got a new DC this year with Vic Fangio. Franklin should get some pretty good interest. Guys who can be a 3-4 NT are always valuable.

Ness
06-23-2011, 03:24 PM
According to the cap list a few posts ago SF is pretty far under the cap. I bet they'll re-sign him. Hasn't he followed your DC pretty much everywhere the last few years? I guess he might go chase a ring but it would not surprise me at all to see him stay with the 9ers.

I haven't read any news on him lately, but the word on the street was that he wanted to cash in because he was getting up there in age. I'd be surprised if he stayed with us. If he did great, but I'm already not expecting it.

killxswitch
06-23-2011, 04:05 PM
Well the 49ers just got a new DC this year with Vic Fangio. Franklin should get some pretty good interest. Guys who can be a 3-4 NT are always valuable.

LOL I forgot Fangio was the new DC. He was such a failure in Indianapolis.

niel89
06-23-2011, 04:14 PM
LOL I forgot Fangio was the new DC. He was such a failure in Indianapolis.

I like Fangio because he made the Stanford semi-above average, but I'm not really sold on him being that good.

Ness
06-23-2011, 06:01 PM
LOL I forgot Fangio was the new DC. He was such a failure in Indianapolis.

Yes he was with Houston as well and that didn't work out. So I'm a little skeptical. Hopefully he's not as bad as Manusky. If we get a good offense though I won't complain. I think we already have a good amount of players on defense, which I don't think Fangino ever really had during his tenure with the Texans at least. Our defense doesn't have all-stars, but I think it's good enough that if we had a decent offense, we'd be a lot more effective at stopping opponents. I think he had success during his time with the Panthers though. And I like that he and Harbaugh have worked together before.

BlindSite
06-23-2011, 08:04 PM
He was with the Panthers something like 16 years ago though, game's changed a lot since then. Either way he'll still build some good schemes around Willis

Ness
06-23-2011, 08:06 PM
He was with the Panthers something like 16 years ago though, game's changed a lot since then. Either way he'll still build some good schemes around Willis

Yeah I was previously going to say that in my comment, but I forgot. I really don't hold much stock that he was with the Panthers and had some success, but I suppose it's better than nothing.