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View Full Version : YES! Edwin "the Mutilator" Mulitalo signs with the Lions!


TacticaLion
03-23-2007, 09:41 PM
http://blog.mlive.com/lionsinsider/2007/03/mulitalo_agrees_to_terms_on_th.html

Mulitalo agrees to terms on three-year deal with Lions
Posted by Tom Kowalski March 23, 2007 20:39PM

The Lions have reached an agreement with free agent guard Edwin Mulitalo on a three-year deal and an announcement will be made as soon as the documents are signed.

The addition of Mulitalo puts Damien Woody on even thinner ice. Woody, who lost more than 30 pounds and reported in good shape to the off-season workouts, has a cap number of $6 million for the 2007 season. The Lions could save $3 million in cap space this season if Woody is released after June 1.

The Lions are still hoping Woody will get his act togther and the combination of Mulitalo and a athletic and agile Woody would give the Lions some real strength on the interior of the offensive line. If the Lions like the way Woody is performing through the off-season workouts and training camp, don't be surprised if they go to him and try to restructure his deal to make his cap hit less brutal.

The Lions also signed free agent guard Zach Piller, who has starting experience in the league. The Lions now have a lot of depth at guard with Mulitalo, Woody, Piller, Barry Stokes and two young prospects Frank Davis and Stephen Peterman.

Mulitalo was a seven-year starter for the Baltimore Ravens before becoming a free agent in the off-season.
YES! YES YES YES! Mulitalo has agreed to terms! We also signed Zach Piller, which gives us some depth.

"The Mutilator"... as a Lion. This is friggin awesome!

The phrase "The Mutilator" was created by and is property of Addict... unauthorized use of this nickname is strictly prohibited and punishable by law.

Scotty D
03-23-2007, 09:44 PM
Xio posted this in the "Edwin is visiting thread" but I think it deserves it own. I love this signing and the Pillar one. I don't think we need to touch O-line on Day 1 now. Woody should be kicked out the door now also.

Bootland27
03-23-2007, 09:46 PM
They probably won't draft a G on day 1 after this move. But all in all, solid signing and obviously fills a need.

Bootland27
03-23-2007, 09:48 PM
Xio posted this in the "Edwin is visiting thread" but I think it deserves it own. I love this signing and the Pillar one. I don't think we need to touch O-line on Day 1 now. Woody should be kicked out the door now also.

That will ultimately depend on his minicamp workouts. He lost some weight, so maybe he's pretty motivated now.

jbombul
03-23-2007, 09:50 PM
that means no justin blalock oh well i would love for the lions to select brandon merriweather in the second. willis....(ray lewis), merriweather....(ed reed) it has that possibility i mean not for a long long time but if both players reached their maxiumum potential our defense could be sick with sims too

TacticaLion
03-23-2007, 09:53 PM
Xio posted this in the "Edwin is visiting thread" but I think it deserves it own. I love this signing and the Pillar one. I don't think we need to touch O-line on Day 1 now. Woody should be kicked out the door now also.I think both are outstanding as well.

I also think that this might push Woody to try hard, stay in shape and earn a starting job. If he can work hard and play at his potential, he'll be very good.

Wow... we can definately have an impressive line next year. Maybe Kitna wasn't too far off...

Hah...

Scotty D
03-23-2007, 09:55 PM
I think both are outstanding as well.

I also think that this might push Woody to try hard, stay in shape and earn a starting job. If he can work hard and play at his potential, he'll be very good.

Wow... we can definately have an impressive line next year. Maybe Kitna wasn't too far off...

Hah...

Yeah it could motivate Woody which would only be a good thing. I'd love to see Woody and Mulitalo start guard. With Foster/Scott battle at RT. The depth on this line is much better than last years.

TacticaLion
03-23-2007, 09:58 PM
Yeah it could motivate Woody which would only be a good thing. I'd love to see Woody and Mulitalo start guard. With Foster/Scott battle at RT. The depth on this line is much better than last years.

That's incredible... Backus-Mulitalo-Raiola-Woody-Foster/Scott... that's an outstanding line (if they play anywhere near their potential).

Wow.

Can you imagine our offense behind a great OLine? Jesus (no, not CJ). Wow.

And we have Tatum Bell.

I'm impressed with this offseason.

Mythos
03-23-2007, 09:59 PM
I think we're carrying six guards right now and four is a typical roster number. I'll go along with the others that have said Woody is gone and I think Davis might be eligible for the practice squad (not sure though).


Woody, Saipia, Stokes, Davis, Mulitalo, Pillar

TacticaLion
03-23-2007, 10:04 PM
I think we're carrying six guards right now and four is a typical roster number. I'll go along with the others that have said Woody is gone and I think Davis might be eligible for the practice squad (not sure though).


Woody, Saipia, Stokes, Davis, Mulitalo, Pillar

They should trade Woody for a 5th round pick.

Haha. Tha'd be funny. Jokes, jokes jokes.

Anyway. I can't wait to see how the line works out.

Brodeur
03-23-2007, 10:05 PM
Hooray, an actual halfway decent guard to play next to Jeff Backus for once. I'll just hope that he doesn't bust like Rick DeSuck did (although I doubt anyone can be THAT bad).

TacticaLion
03-23-2007, 10:11 PM
Hooray, an actual halfway decent guard to play next to Jeff Backus for once. I'll just hope that he doesn't bust like Rick DeSuck did (although I doubt anyone can be THAT bad).I almost asked you if you watched Rick DeMulling play...

Then I got it.

I'm good like that.

Xiomera
03-23-2007, 10:15 PM
We ought to draft an OT on day two.

But this eliminates the possibility of Joe Thomas is my mind, as well as any other O-Lineman on day one.

Now we need to focus on MLB, DE, QB, and DB, with WR and TE as secondary needs.

Mythos
03-23-2007, 10:18 PM
I hope this guy stays healthy. Our recent history w/ free agent guards has been pretty bleak. Everyone has seemed to get hurt except Demulling.

49ersfan_87
03-23-2007, 10:18 PM
We ought to draft an OT on day two.

But this eliminates the possibility of Joe Thomas is my mind, as well as any other O-Lineman on day one.

Now we need to focus on MLB, DE, QB, and DB, with WR and TE as secondary needs.

Just curious, but how come it eliminates joe thomas?

I like this move. Im impressed with the lions offseason so far. Hope things keep lookin up for you guys!

TacticaLion
03-23-2007, 10:20 PM
We ought to draft an OT on day two.

But this eliminates the possibility of Joe Thomas is my mind, as well as any other O-Lineman on day one.

Now we need to focus on MLB, DE, QB, and DB, with WR and TE as secondary needs.
Agree completely...

My order:

MLB
DB
DE
QB
TE
WR

If he finds a way to trade down and fill those needs... wow. What an offseason.

JoeMontainya
03-23-2007, 10:23 PM
That's incredible... Backus-Mulitalo-Raiola-Woody-Foster/Scott... that's an outstanding line (if they play anywhere near their potential).

Wow.

Can you imagine our offense behind a great OLine? Jesus (no, not CJ). Wow.

And we have Tatum Bell.

I'm impressed with this offseason.

LOL outstanding? WOW leave it to a Lions fan.

Mythos
03-23-2007, 10:23 PM
We ought to draft an OT on day two.

But this eliminates the possibility of Joe Thomas is my mind, as well as any other O-Lineman on day one.

Now we need to focus on MLB, DE, QB, and DB, with WR and TE as secondary needs.

Free safety not a need? or does DB cover FS, corner and nickel corner?
I'd rank the needs,
DE, FS, MLB, nickel corner, cover-2 corner, QB, TE.

TacticaLion
03-23-2007, 10:31 PM
Free safety not a need? or does DB cover FS, corner and nickel corner?
I'd rank the needs,
DE, FS, MLB, nickel corner, cover-2 corner, QB, TE.

If I went specific, It would be:

MLB
CB
FS
DE
QB
WR
TE

I'd love to grab a great safety this year... trade Kennedy for a 5th.
LOL outstanding? WOW leave it to a Lions fan.Are you kidding me? A line of Backus-Mulitalo-Raiola-Woody (playing at a high level) wouldn't be great? Riiiight.

The offense had a solid year last year... with an OLine that was practically non-existent. These are good players that, if they can work together, will have a great year next year.

"Leave it to a Lions fan"... instead, just leave the Lions forum.

Scotty D
03-23-2007, 10:32 PM
LOL outstanding? WOW leave it to a Lions fan.

On paper it does looks pretty nice. You probably didn't know Raiola was one of the best centers in the NFL last year. Woody is back in shape. Mulitalo was a solid start for Baltimore. Scott showed promise last year. Backus is more than servicable. Foster played for a great Denver O-line.

Back your stuff up before you come up in her all ignant.

Xiomera
03-23-2007, 10:33 PM
Free safety not a need? or does DB cover FS, corner and nickel corner?
I'd rank the needs,
DE, FS, MLB, nickel corner, cover-2 corner, QB, TE.

I want to add one day one Defensive Back, be it a safety or a cornerback. It doesn't really matter. Either one would be beneficial. I'd go with the best DB available.

TacticaLion
03-23-2007, 10:42 PM
On paper it does looks pretty nice. You probably didn't know Raiola was one of the best centers in the NFL last year. Woody is back in shape. Mulitalo was a solid start for Baltimore. Scott showed promise last year. Backus is more than servicable. Foster played for a great Denver O-line.

Back your stuff up before you come up in her all ignant.

Very well said... was thinking that exact explanation.

(Part in bold: I had to read that a few times to get it... threw me WAAAY off. Great line.)

Mythos
03-23-2007, 10:43 PM
I want to add one day one Defensive Back, be it a safety or a cornerback. It doesn't really matter. Either one would be beneficial. I'd go with the best DB available.

that makes sense.

Mythos
03-23-2007, 10:48 PM
I think the order we'll actually draft will be Tacti's list w/ FS and DE swapped.
MLB, CB, DE, FS.

Scotty D
03-23-2007, 10:56 PM
Very well said... was thinking that exact explanation.

(Part in bold: I had to read that a few times to get it... threw me WAAAY off. Great line.)


LoL I have no idea what made me type it like that but I liked it.

TacticaLion
03-23-2007, 10:57 PM
I think the order we'll actually draft will be Tacti's list w/ FS and DE swapped.
MLB, CB, DE, FS.

I would agree... in terms of overall need (which this list was supposed to be).

I was actually thinking about my ideal draft. Trading down, taking PWillis, then taking a CB (McCauley?) and FS (Meriweather?) in round 2 and Bazuin in round 3.

But, if I took it purely from need, I'd agree. We need a stud DE to take over for Edwards.

TacticaLion
03-23-2007, 10:59 PM
LoL I have no idea what made me type it like that but I liked it.
It was outstanding. I began to correct it in my head... "here... ignorant..."... then I laughed.

WMD
03-24-2007, 05:08 AM
Awesome, good character, solid player, no problems here.. Pretty much eliminates OG as a Day One need. Hopefully we can take Meriweather/Abiamiri/McCauley in Round 2 instead of an OG possibility.

DeMonikk1
03-24-2007, 06:21 AM
Although I like the signings, I don't think it completely eliminates an O-lineman from day 1. Remember, Mulitalo IS 32 and Piller has been injury prone. If he's healthy though, it is a very good signing. But don't eliminate o-line as a need because it still is. I hope Woody hangs on because when he plays with a mean streak, he is a beast. I hope they still look at guys liek Manny Ramirez and such on day one. But I hope for a trade down, grab Willis or Gaines Adams, 1st then in the 2nd, get the best CB or S and keep building on this. For the 1st time in 6 years, I actually like a Lions offseason so far.


But I am sure I will be cursing Matt Millen in a few months as well.

Addict
03-24-2007, 10:55 AM
I am in shock.

First we make another great signing. Then I found out Tactica stole the nickname I made up.

I don't know which one shocks me more.

TacticaLion
03-24-2007, 11:13 AM
I am in shock.

First we make another great signing. Then I found out Tactica stole the nickname I made up.

I don't know which one shocks me more.

NO! NO THIEFING! If you read the first post, and look at the very bottom, I gave you complete credit for the phrase. I'll be the first one to admit that the phrase was created by you.

Great signing, though... we can agree about that.

Iamcanadian
03-24-2007, 11:45 AM
Sorry to be the only one not that enthused by the signing. FA OG's are a dime a dozen and few ever workout well for their new teams. We signed Woody and DeMulling as FA OG's and at the time everybody thought Millen was a genius. I have confidence that Martz will have a solid offense in his second season, he will get the maximum out of his players but will be very limited by his QB. Kitna just isn't going to carry this team to the playoffs, not next season or any season, but I can see 6 wins as very possible.
If we fail to draft Adams(I could also accept Quinn), our defense will remain very mediocre because the cover 2 defense just cannot be very effective without a ferocious pass rush by the front 4. I'll be shocked if we draft Willis because MLB just isn't the key to a great cover 2 defense. I'd love it if we could use our #2 and other picks to trade up for Willis as MLB needs to be found, but anybody who thinks a MLB will turn this defense around just doesn't understand the cover 2 and I don't believe for a second that Marinelli would select Willis if he has any say or influence over Millen. Tactical Lion can rant and rave about how much he wants Willis, but that doesn't change the fact that the 2 teams that won the Super Bowl using a cover 2 defense had only average MLB's but absolute great pass rushing DL's. If Tactical Lion wants to argue that we need a MLB badly, I totally agree, but using our #1 pick on one is just not a smart move especially as there will likely be a # of solid MLBer types available with our #2 pick but no great pass rushing DE's.

Addict
03-24-2007, 11:54 AM
NO! NO THIEFING! If you read the first post, and look at the very bottom, I gave you complete credit for the phrase. I'll be the first one to admit that the phrase was created by you.

Great signing, though... we can agree about that.

hahaha I was just kidding you Tactica.

asmitty45
03-24-2007, 02:11 PM
love the signing, i reallly hope woody gets his ass in shape so they can both be on the oline

TacticaLion
03-24-2007, 03:32 PM
Sorry to be the only one not that enthused by the signing. FA OG's are a dime a dozen and few ever workout well for their new teams. We signed Woody and DeMulling as FA OG's and at the time everybody thought Millen was a genius. I have confidence that Martz will have a solid offense in his second season, he will get the maximum out of his players but will be very limited by his QB. Kitna just isn't going to carry this team to the playoffs, not next season or any season, but I can see 6 wins as very possible.
If we fail to draft Adams(I could also accept Quinn), our defense will remain very mediocre because the cover 2 defense just cannot be very effective without a ferocious pass rush by the front 4. I'll be shocked if we draft Willis because MLB just isn't the key to a great cover 2 defense. I'd love it if we could use our #2 and other picks to trade up for Willis as MLB needs to be found, but anybody who thinks a MLB will turn this defense around just doesn't understand the cover 2 and I don't believe for a second that Marinelli would select Willis if he has any say or influence over Millen. Tactical Lion can rant and rave about how much he wants Willis, but that doesn't change the fact that the 2 teams that won the Super Bowl using a cover 2 defense had only average MLB's but absolute great pass rushing DL's. If Tactical Lion wants to argue that we need a MLB badly, I totally agree, but using our #1 pick on one is just not a smart move especially as there will likely be a # of solid MLBer types available with our #2 pick but no great pass rushing DE's.You need a pass-rushing DE for the Cover 2... and a fast, playmaking MLB (that can tackle and cover). There are a number of great pass-rushing DEs in this draft... but Willis is the complete package at MLB. He'll give our defense a true leader... something that it has lacked.

Lets try this one, "Iamcanadian". You'd like to claim that we NEED Adams (who will be a top 10 pick)... because that's what the "successful Cover 2 defenses" have, right? Try this out:

Adewale Ogunleye - Undrafted
Alex Brown - 2002 Rd 4, Pk 104
Mark Anderson - 2006 Rd 5, Pk 159

Robert Mathis - 2003 Rd 5, Pk 138
Dwight Freeney - 2002 Rd 1, Pk 11

Only one player in that list, Dwight Freeney, was drafted in the first round.

That list is telling me that we can find a great pure pass-rusher in later rounds and use the other picks to fill different needs. That is, after all, what those "successful Cover 2 teams" did.

Also, answer me this: what team has the best Cover 2 defense in the NFL? Many would say the Bears... and, as much as I can't stand them, I'd have to agree. The Bears got to the Super Bowl with an incredible defense... the Colts have what many claim is the best offense in the NFL. So, using the Colts' defense as an example of what we should do to be successful is a horrible argument. If you'd like to use an example of a team, it should be the best Cover 2 team in the NFL, right? And, who is that teams best player? The heart, soul and voice of the defense? And, what position does he play?

If the coaches think that they can find a late round, pass-rushing DE in the draft... using your example, they should do just that. If Marinelli thinks Bazuin is the answer, he should get him. But, considering the void we have at the MLB position... and the player that Willis could be for our defense... I think that makes him the pick.

bearsfan_51
03-24-2007, 03:37 PM
Actually Wale was undrafted due to injury concerns, and when the Bears traded for him they gave up their 3rd rounder and their best wide reciever at the time.

Alex Brown was a great 4th round value, but he's not an ideal cover 2 DE either.

Mark Anderson is a tremendous example, but he really should have gone about two rounds earlier. I think everyone just took a nap on that one.

Anyway, you can do well with either. We drafted Urlacher long before we ran the cover 2 though (as an OLB) and probably would not have drafted him had that been our system. IAC is absolutely correct in that the D-line is far and away the primary position in the cover 2. Then probably safety, something the Lions should also consider as Kennoy Kennedy is a bit of a liability (although by no means as much as Paris Lennon).

TacticaLion
03-24-2007, 03:48 PM
Actually Wale was undrafted due to injury concerns, and when the Bears traded for him they gave up their 3rd rounder and their best wide reciever at the time.

Alex Brown was a great 4th round value, but he's not an ideal cover 2 DE either.

Mark Anderson is a tremendous example, but he really should have gone about two rounds earlier. I think everyone just took a nap on that one.

Anyway, you can do well with either. We drafted Urlacher long before we ran the cover 2 though (as an OLB) and probably would not have drafted him had that been our system. IAC is absolutely correct in that the D-line is far and away the primary position in the cover 2. Then probably safety, something the Lions should also consider as Kennoy Kennedy is a bit of a liability (although by no means as much as Paris Lennon).Of course the DLine is the most important position in the Cover 2... I have never claimed that it isn't. But, when you look at our DLine as it stands right now, you have DWhite - CRedding - SRogers - KEdwards... which is a great DLine (if they can stay healthy). We only need to add a pure pass-rusher to take over for Edwards and the line will be great.

When you look at the MLB position... you see... Paris Lenon? That's right... Paris Lenon. (Lehman can only be considered when he's healthy... and there's still questions about that.) Getting PWillis would have a HUGE impact for our defense because, not only is the position extremely weak, but he's just that incredible.

If you think about having a DLine of White - CRedding - SRogers - VAbiamiri with a LB group of BBailey/ALewis - PWillis - ESims... that's an incredible front 7. Incredible. And that's what I'd like for next year.

(Note: justification for Adewale's draft position is pointless. He was drafted late... period. You traded a 3rd round pick and "your best WR" for him because he had 15 sacks the year prior [and 9.5 the year before that]. Any player will cost a lot after a great season... regardless of the draft position. He still remains a good example.)

bigbluedefense
03-24-2007, 04:03 PM
Actually Wale was undrafted due to injury concerns, and when the Bears traded for him they gave up their 3rd rounder and their best wide reciever at the time.

Alex Brown was a great 4th round value, but he's not an ideal cover 2 DE either.

Mark Anderson is a tremendous example, but he really should have gone about two rounds earlier. I think everyone just took a nap on that one.

Anyway, you can do well with either. We drafted Urlacher long before we ran the cover 2 though (as an OLB) and probably would not have drafted him had that been our system. IAC is absolutely correct in that the D-line is far and away the primary position in the cover 2. Then probably safety, something the Lions should also consider as Kennoy Kennedy is a bit of a liability (although by no means as much as Paris Lennon).

must...not....make....easy...cover 2 joke...

Ok, Im gonna try to be serious.

BF51 is right about dline and safeties being an integral piece to this defense. WILL is also real important, but you already have that. I think the better Cover 2 teams have a penetrating UT as well, because they rely heavily on front 4 pressure, and they like creating interior pressure with the UT opposed to MIKE blitzes and inside stunt blitzes.

There really isn't that type of UT in this draft outside of Okeye, but theres lots of Cover 2 DE candidates in this draft. Its also great for safeties.

TacticaLion
03-24-2007, 04:09 PM
must...not....make....easy...cover 2 joke...

Ok, Im gonna try to be serious.

BF51 is right about dline and safeties being an integral piece to this defense. WILL is also real important, but you already have that. I think the better Cover 2 teams have a penetrating UT as well, because they rely heavily on front 4 pressure, and they like creating interior pressure with the UT opposed to MIKE blitzes and inside stunt blitzes.

There really isn't that type of UT in this draft outside of Okeye, but theres lots of Cover 2 DE candidates in this draft. Its also great for safeties.He is right... which was never disputed. I think the difference here is that we've already got a good-great DLine... and adding a pure pass-rushing DE would finish it off. As you said, that player could be found later in the draft.

We do NOT have a MLB, though... which, to me, is a big problem. I also want an upgrade at FS (and move Bullocks to SS)... I wish they'd trade Kennedy for a 5th round pick and draft Meriweather.

Either way... we've got a huge hole at MLB. Willis would benefit us MUCH more than Adams would.

bigbluedefense
03-24-2007, 04:16 PM
He is right... which was never disputed. I think the difference here is that we've already got a good-great DLine... and adding a pure pass-rushing DE would finish it off. As you said, that player could be found later in the draft.

We do NOT have a MLB, though... which, to me, is a big problem. I also want an upgrade at FS (and move Bullocks to SS)... I wish they'd trade Kennedy for a 5th round pick and draft Meriweather.

Either way... we've got a huge hole at MLB. Willis would benefit us MUCH more than Adams would.

I think Patrick Willis is ideal as far as athleticism goes. Poz could also be a Cover 2 ILB, I think he's great in coverage and has the instincts to anticipate the run.

Im not so sure about Buster Davis...he's a wildcard for Cover 2 ILB.

TacticaLion
03-24-2007, 04:19 PM
I think Patrick Willis is ideal as far as athleticism goes. Poz could also be a Cover 2 ILB, I think he's great in coverage and has the instincts to anticipate the run.

Im not so sure about Buster Davis...he's a wildcard for Cover 2 ILB.
I would want Willis... for his athleticism, leadership, awareness and character. If we didn't get him, I've heard that Beason would fit in round 2. And, if we missed both, and Harris was still on the board in round 3, he'd have to be the pick. If none of the above took place, we could get Waters in round 4-5. And, if we missed all of them, we should quit.

bigbluedefense
03-24-2007, 04:30 PM
I would want Willis... for his athleticism, leadership, awareness and character. If we didn't get him, I've heard that Beason would fit in round 2. And, if we missed both, and Harris was still on the board in round 3, he'd have to be the pick. If none of the above took place, we could get Waters in round 4-5. And, if we missed all of them, we should quit.

You guys converted a DE into a DT didnt you? I remember that working out rather well, but for some reason, he wants to go back to DE? You think he'll create a problem in the lockerroom?

lionsfan81
03-24-2007, 05:00 PM
[QUOTE=TacticaLion;246583]
We do NOT have a MLB, though... which, to me, is a big problem. I also want an upgrade at FS (and move Bullocks to SS)... I wish they'd trade Kennedy for a 5th round pick and draft Meriweather.
QUOTE]


thats EXACTLY what im hoping we could be able to do. To me bullocks is a SS playing out of position at FS and with meriweather at FS we'd have a playmaking DB. Kennedy just isn't very good in the tampa 2 to me, someone who would be willing to give up a 5th or 4th rounder for him would be getting a steal. even then i say we keep him because we need him for depth reasons and still draft meriweather anyways.

TacticaLion
03-24-2007, 07:32 PM
You guys converted a DE into a DT didnt you? I remember that working out rather well, but for some reason, he wants to go back to DE? You think he'll create a problem in the lockerroom?

I really don't think we converted Cory Redding... we just put him in at DT and he thrived.

And... he wanted to go back to DE to earn the DE transition tag. We tagged him as a DT, which was 2 million dollars less (he's a DT for us now).

I don't think he'll be a problem at all... he's a hard worker that loves the game... really is a "Marinelli-guy". That situation is over and, hopefully, we'll resign him for a reasonable amount. If our DLine can stay healthy, SRogers, CRedding and DWhite will have an outstanding season... and everyone will be happy.

thats EXACTLY what im hoping we could be able to do. To me bullocks is a SS playing out of position at FS and with meriweather at FS we'd have a playmaking DB. Kennedy just isn't very good in the tampa 2 to me, someone who would be willing to give up a 5th or 4th rounder for him would be getting a steal. even then i say we keep him because we need him for depth reasons and still draft meriweather anyways.Bullocks really is a SS out of position (and a good one at that). I've never been a big fan of Kennedy... especially after that hit he put on that one QB (forgot who) late in the game to give them a 1st down.

He's physical and can hit, but a true, stud FS and Bullocks would make for a great safety pairing.

Iamcanadian
03-25-2007, 01:07 AM
You need a pass-rushing DE for the Cover 2... and a fast, playmaking MLB (that can tackle and cover). There are a number of great pass-rushing DEs in this draft... but Willis is the complete package at MLB. He'll give our defense a true leader... something that it has lacked.

Lets try this one, "Iamcanadian". You'd like to claim that we NEED Adams (who will be a top 10 pick)... because that's what the "successful Cover 2 defenses" have, right? Try this out:

Adewale Ogunleye - Undrafted
Alex Brown - 2002 Rd 4, Pk 104
Mark Anderson - 2006 Rd 5, Pk 159

Robert Mathis - 2003 Rd 5, Pk 138
Dwight Freeney - 2002 Rd 1, Pk 11

Only one player in that list, Dwight Freeney, was drafted in the first round.

That list is telling me that we can find a great pure pass-rusher in later rounds and use the other picks to fill different needs. That is, after all, what those "successful Cover 2 teams" did.

Also, answer me this: what team has the best Cover 2 defense in the NFL? Many would say the Bears... and, as much as I can't stand them, I'd have to agree. The Bears got to the Super Bowl with an incredible defense... the Colts have what many claim is the best offense in the NFL. So, using the Colts' defense as an example of what we should do to be successful is a horrible argument. If you'd like to use an example of a team, it should be the best Cover 2 team in the NFL, right? And, who is that teams best player? The heart, soul and voice of the defense? And, what position does he play?

If the coaches think that they can find a late round, pass-rushing DE in the draft... using your example, they should do just that. If Marinelli thinks Bazuin is the answer, he should get him. But, considering the void we have at the MLB position... and the player that Willis could be for our defense... I think that makes him the pick.

Well I certainly like discussing an issue with someone who does their homework and at least knows the game.
There is however one danger in getting carried away with where cover 2 players were previously drafted. For years Pittsburgh and New England were the only teams playing a 3-4 and got most of their LB's late in the draft because they were tweeners who played DE in college but didn't suit a standart 4-3 defense. Now that quite a few teams have switched to the 3-4, it has become much harder for teams to wait on drafting their LB's and you see many 3-4 teams drafting them in round 1.
The cover 2 defense is simular and as it spreads around the league, finding DE's will become very difficult later in the draft. Of course, you can always get lucky but that is a very risky business as a draft philosophy. Detroit is now in direct competition with about 6 teams for the DE's necassary to make a cover 2 defense effective plus a lot of 3-4 teams are interested in the same type of player to play LBer in their defensive system.
I think our DL is still very suspect. White is not a proven pass rusher, Edwards is coming off a poor season and IMO, Rogers is very suspect in a cover 2. I think Redding will be a great DT in the cover 2 but he just isn't enough. You put Adams on our defense and I think we have a real shot at having a great cover 2, you put Willis on the team and if we don't get a ferocious pass rush, we will still be a mediocre defense. I can certainly agree that Willis could be a very nice player, but I just think you have to give priority to your primary positions especially if your getting a pick in the top 10. Secondary priorities simply have to wait until the 2-7 rounds. I think Marinelli knows what makes his defense tick and I still believe he will try to solve the DE position ahead of the MLB position. I guess we'll know on draft day.

Mythos
03-25-2007, 10:02 AM
Canadian has a good point about cover-2 ends possibly going higher now, a la 3-4 OLBs, but Adams is #2 is simply an insane reach. I agree that DE is the most important position in the cover-2 and DE is the Lions' greatest need, but this does not justify this kind of a reach. His speed numbers are inferior to some Day 2 guys and he's being discussed at #2--I don't understand it.

I also think you could stick Freeney on this team right now, and we'd still have a below average D until you did something about MLB, FS, and nickel corner. This thing was never gooing to get turned around in 1 or 2 drafts.

TacticaLion
03-25-2007, 11:33 AM
Well I certainly like discussing an issue with someone who does their homework and at least knows the game.
There is however one danger in getting carried away with where cover 2 players were previously drafted. For years Pittsburgh and New England were the only teams playing a 3-4 and got most of their LB's late in the draft because they were tweeners who played DE in college but didn't suit a standart 4-3 defense. Now that quite a few teams have switched to the 3-4, it has become much harder for teams to wait on drafting their LB's and you see many 3-4 teams drafting them in round 1.
The cover 2 defense is simular and as it spreads around the league, finding DE's will become very difficult later in the draft. Of course, you can always get lucky but that is a very risky business as a draft philosophy. Detroit is now in direct competition with about 6 teams for the DE's necassary to make a cover 2 defense effective plus a lot of 3-4 teams are interested in the same type of player to play LBer in their defensive system.
I think our DL is still very suspect. White is not a proven pass rusher, Edwards is coming off a poor season and IMO, Rogers is very suspect in a cover 2. I think Redding will be a great DT in the cover 2 but he just isn't enough. You put Adams on our defense and I think we have a real shot at having a great cover 2, you put Willis on the team and if we don't get a ferocious pass rush, we will still be a mediocre defense. I can certainly agree that Willis could be a very nice player, but I just think you have to give priority to your primary positions especially if your getting a pick in the top 10. Secondary priorities simply have to wait until the 2-7 rounds. I think Marinelli knows what makes his defense tick and I still believe he will try to solve the DE position ahead of the MLB position. I guess we'll know on draft day.Interesting... I didn't consider the higher demand for Cover 2 DEs... something to take into consideration (and a good rebuttal).

We also seem to disagree about the current status of our DLine. On paper, the line is great... in a world where SRogers plays hard and remains healthy, we've got a great unit. But, that isn't the case. I think White will suprise many and have a great season... and I'm hoping that Edwards can FINALLY play to his potential. Either way, we need another pass-rushing DE.

Question: do you think we should trade SRogers? From your posts, it sounds like you think we should... and I would agree.

Regardless... when I look at the positions we need... and the players available... I see a few DEs that fit the mold of what we want... and one true stud MLB. I think we could draft a DE in rounds 2-3 that fits exactly what we're looking for... but that Willis will be a special player.

The draft will be interesting... to say the least.

Iamcanadian
03-25-2007, 11:35 AM
Canadian has a good point about cover-2 ends possibly going higher now, a la 3-4 OLBs, but Adams is #2 is simply an insane reach. I agree that DE is the most important position in the cover-2 and DE is the Lions' greatest need, but this does not justify this kind of a reach. His speed numbers are inferior to some Day 2 guys and he's being discussed at #2--I don't understand it.

I also think you could stick Freeney on this team right now, and we'd still have a below average D until you did something about MLB, FS, and nickel corner. This thing was never gooing to get turned around in 1 or 2 drafts.

Adams is the consenus #5 rated player in the draft. I agree that there is a droppoff after #4 but Adams's reason for being rated below the top 4 is that he doesn't fit every system. However, he clearly fits a cover 2 defense and that makes him a candidate for our pick. I'd love to trade down and still get him but that just may not be possible.
I agree that we aren't going to solve every weakness on the team with the 1st pick, so the question is, what positions are primary on a cover 2 defense if we use the #2 pick for defense. IMO DE is crucial for a cover 2 and that makes Adams the likely target of Marinelli. We definitely need a MLB, a FS and another CB or 2, but those positions take a secondary role to a DE and remember Adams is still the top rated defensive player in the draft. I think you have to take him if defense is our decision.
Adams isn't going to make our defense great overnight, but I believe that with Redding and him, we will have the cornerstones of a real solid defense. The combination of these 2 guys are going to give QB's absolute fits when they try to pass against the Lions and will cover up a lot of weaknesses in our secondary until those pieces of the puzzle are brought in. Of course I'd like to get Willis too and Landry and a CB but realistically we won't get more than one, and I simply want the most crucial player drafted for the team.
I'd actually perfer QB because a team starts with that position and Detroit hasn't had a franchise type QB since the 50's, which goes a long way towards explaining our past failures to become a championship team. I don't care how many flops we've drafted in the past, the position isn't to blame just the incompetence of our drafters and scouts. The position still remains absolutely crucial for a winning team and our future looks bleak to me at that position.

jbombul
03-25-2007, 12:52 PM
im just curious at something. why not work out boss bailey as a defensive end during camp? im not real sure of his playing weight but i imagine its pretty close to mathis in indy playing at 238. bailey has insane amount of speed its just a thought i suppose it certainly won't hurt anything

Xiomera
03-25-2007, 12:54 PM
im just curious at something. why not work out boss bailey as a defensive end during camp? im not real sure of his playing weight but i imagine its pretty close to mathis in indy playing at 238. bailey has insane amount of speed its just a thought i suppose it certainly won't hurt anything

People suggested we try his at SS too . . . he's just not capable, IMO.

jbombul
03-25-2007, 01:05 PM
People suggested we try his at SS too . . . he's just not capable, IMO.

maybe we can revolutionize how defense is played in the nfl. line up boss bailey all over the field in an athlete position where he plays all over the place. lol they do it on offense so why not on defense?

TacticaLion
03-25-2007, 01:08 PM
maybe we can revolutionize how defense is played in the nfl. line up boss bailey all over the field in an athlete position where he plays all over the place. lol they do it on offense so why not on defense?It would be interesting... you'd think he'd work somewhere else, due to his speed and everything.

I always thought about KKennedy as a LBer... he's not THAT slow (slow for a S, though)... but it probably wouldn't work.

Addict
03-25-2007, 02:42 PM
maybe we can revolutionize how defense is played in the nfl. line up boss bailey all over the field in an athlete position where he plays all over the place. lol they do it on offense so why not on defense?

We should start playing defense, then worry about revolutionizing it. You're getting waaaaay ahead of yourself.

TacticaLion
03-25-2007, 02:49 PM
We should start playing defense, then worry about revolutionizing it. You're getting waaaaay ahead of yourself.Haha... that's cruel, man...

But funny... and true.

On that note, which players on our defense could play (well) at a different position?

Addict
03-25-2007, 02:55 PM
Haha... that's cruel, man...

But funny... and true.

On that note, which players on our defense could play (well) at a different position?

I think Bailey's able to play safety, that guy has some serious speed. Bullucks of course should play SS.

And we could move KKennedy to the 'waterboy (WB)' position, where he would thrive.

WMD
03-25-2007, 07:05 PM
maybe we can revolutionize how defense is played in the nfl. line up boss bailey all over the field in an athlete position where he plays all over the place. lol they do it on offense so why not on defense?

I'm pretty sure Baltimore has already done that, with Adalius Thomas..

jbombul
03-25-2007, 09:05 PM
I'm pretty sure Baltimore has already done that, with Adalius Thomas..

yea thats true but thats in the 3-4 we could do something like that with the 4-3 idk hes an athlete there should be some role for him to thrive in

TacticaLion
03-26-2007, 09:25 AM
I think Bailey's able to play safety, that guy has some serious speed. Bullucks of course should play SS.

And we could move KKennedy to the 'waterboy (WB)' position, where he would thrive.

That would be outstanding... although I'd rather draft someone in the 5th round and have them take the WB position. (In other words, trade Kennedy for a 5th... for those that didnt get it.)

Think BBailey could do it? It would be less contact for him... maybe he'd stay healthy?

P-L
03-26-2007, 11:35 AM
Canadian has a good point about cover-2 ends possibly going higher now, a la 3-4 OLBs, but Adams is #2 is simply an insane reach. I agree that DE is the most important position in the cover-2 and DE is the Lions' greatest need, but this does not justify this kind of a reach. His speed numbers are inferior to some Day 2 guys and he's being discussed at #2--I don't understand it.
Adams isn't as big of a reach at #2 as Patrick Willis would be though. Gaines Adams will almost certainly be a top 5 pick. If the Lions don't take him then Tampa (If Calvin Johnson isn't available) and Arizona (if Joe Thomas isn't available) will take him. I highly doubt both Washington and Minnesota pass on him if he is available. Adams is pretty much a sure-fire lock to be a top 7 pick. Drafting him at #2 is a bit of a reach, but it would be less of a reach then when the Lion picked Sims last year at #9. Patrick Willis on the other hand is going to be a 10-20 pick, and more then likely he'll end up going in the 10-15 range. He is a much bigger reach at #2 then Adams would be.

I also don't understand your comments about how he has inferior speed numbers to day two guys. Adams ran the fastest 40 yard dash of any defensive lineman at the combine. He also put up times of 7.17 in the 3-cone drill and 4.36 in the shuttle to go along with his 35" vertical. He ranked in the top 5 in the shuttle and top 7 in the 3-cone among all defensive lineman. He was also considered by most to be the most impressive DE in the drills.

TacticaLion
03-26-2007, 11:46 AM
Adams isn't as big of a reach at #2 as Patrick Willis would be though. Gaines Adams will almost certainly be a top 5 pick. If the Lions don't take him then Tampa (If Calvin Johnson isn't available) and Arizona (if Joe Thomas isn't available) will take him. I highly doubt both Washington and Minnesota pass on him if he is available. Adams is pretty much a sure-fire lock to be a top 7 pick. Drafting him at #2 is a bit of a reach, but it would be less of a reach then when the Lion picked Sims last year at #9. Patrick Willis on the other hand is going to be a 10-20 pick, and more then likely he'll end up going in the 10-15 range. He is a much bigger reach at #2 then Adams would be.

I also don't understand your comments about how he has inferior speed numbers to day two guys. Adams ran the fastest 40 yard dash of any defensive lineman at the combine. He also put up times of 7.17 in the 3-cone drill and 4.36 in the shuttle to go along with his 35" vertical. He ranked in the top 5 in the shuttle and top 7 in the 3-cone among all defensive lineman. He was also considered by most to be the most impressive DE in the drills.When it comes to Adams/Willis... I'd rather take Willis, regardless of where they're projected. If we're gonna reach, we might as well reach on the right player. Sure, I like Adams... but, as said before, I think we can find a pure pass-rusher in rounds 2-4. I DON'T think we can find a talent like Willis past the first round.

Just my thoughts.