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View Full Version : Are the Eagles making the right decision at quarterback?


Matthew Jones
07-05-2011, 09:28 AM
I was just reading through John Clayton's mailbag yesterday, and someone asked a very interesting question - are the Eagles making the right decision at quarterback by putting Kevin Kolb on the open market and moving forwards with Michael Vick as their quarterback? It's true that Vick had an outstanding season last year and looked much more like the dynamic, explosive pre-prison Vick of old than he did in his first season back. Perhaps more intriguing, he also seemed to take some mental strides forward under Andy Reid's tutelage, becoming a more complete quarterback in regards to his professionalism, mechanics, and decision-making and putting together his most impressive NFL season to date in the process, posting career-best statistics in every major passing category. The Eagles are inarguably shaping up to be a championship contender this season with Vick at the helm.

But let's think about this for a second. Vick is 31 years old, and despite improving in other areas, his game is still predicated upon his freakish athleticism, quickness, and arm strength, three of the first casualties of the aging process. He's also had some problems with the injury bug - 2006 was the only season in his career in which he appeared in all 16 games. And if he finds himself in any sort of legal trouble, he could be facing a long (lifetime?) banishment from the NFL. If the Eagles sign Vick to a long-term contract (probably a requirement at some point in the near future to keep Vick happy), they are gambling that he can prevent his physical skills from eroding (which has been the doom of so many superstars in the past), that he will stay healthy (which he has failed to consistently do over the course of his career), that he will stay out of trouble (ditto), and that receiving the security of a long-term contract with guaranteed money will not make him complacent or lead to a return to his pre-prison laziness.

Meanwhile, less than a year ago, Andy Reid felt confident enough to call Kevin Kolb his franchise quarterback, his quarterback of the future, to the point where he felt comfortable enough to trade Donovan McNabb to a division rival. Prior to trading McNabb, it was reported that many players in the locker room, the young players especially, felt confident in Kolb's ability to lead the team. Kolb has thus far spent four years in the system, learning the ins and outs of Reid's west coast offense. While Kolb didn't look quite as good as expected this season, he did play under ideal circumstances as a backup and injury replacement. This is a 26 year-old quarterback who has only seven starts under his belt. It's too soon to condemn him for a few early struggles. The Eagles are a young team, and could grow alongside Kolb as a potential long-term title contender.

If they trade him, within the next couple of years, they will be searching for a new quarterback to groom behind Vick. But right now, Vick is considered one of the best quarterbacks in the league. Teams that fail to see the big picture and look years down the road get burned often in the NFL. It's almost always a better idea to jettison a player a year early rather than retain them and overpay in future years as their talent diminishes, and right now, Vick's trade value is as high as it's going to get. In the past, the Eagles were heavily criticized for their decision to trade Donovan McNabb when he was still playing at a high level, but ultimately came out winners, using the 2010 second-round pick gained from the trade to draft Nate Allen (who looks like a long-term fixture in the defense.) While trading Vick may look bad in light of his 2010 campaign, the Eagles could use any draft picks acquired in a deal to bolster another position or two with long-term starters.

What do you think?

EricCartmann
07-05-2011, 09:44 AM
31 is not old for a pocket passing QB. Vick managed to stay in the pocket and when he did scramble, he avoided the big hits. People forget that it took awhile for Steve Young to think pass first too.

The Eagles will get 5 more good years out of Vick so you better believe they made the right decision.

FYI: I might be the wrong guy to chime in on this since I am the biggest Michael Vick fanboi. MICHAEL VICK FOR PRESIDENT!

jrdrylie
07-05-2011, 10:03 AM
The are absolutely making the wrong choice.

Michael Vick is almost guaranteed to get injured. He has starter all 16 games only once in his career.

He has never led his team to consecutive playoff appearances.

Kevin Kolb is four years younger. Plus he will likely have a longer career. The Eagles would probably get 6-7 years more out of Kolb than they would with Vick.

They could probably get a little more in a trade from Vick than they would from Kolb. Probably not much more, but maybe an extra 3rd or 4th round pick.

K Train
07-05-2011, 10:06 AM
i think its a ballsy choice, but i do think its the right one....then again i see kolb as nothing more than a career backup

bucfan12
07-05-2011, 10:19 AM
Yes, because Kolb is not a top tier starting QB in this league and Vick's a top 10 QB right now. Kolb, honestly, is nothing more than an average QB and best suited as a back up.

The Eagles probably know this but realize they can get a 1st or 2nd rounder, or player to contribute for him.

Some dumb team, like Arizona, will give the Eagles a very good player or high draft in return for an average QB at best.

So, Yes, the Eagles are making the right choice.

SativaDominant
07-05-2011, 10:32 AM
31 is not old for a pocket passing QB. Vick managed to stay in the pocket and when he did scramble, he avoided the big hits. People forget that it took awhile for Steve Young to think pass first too.

The Eagles will get 5 more good years out of Vick so you better believe they made the right decision.

FYI: I might be the wrong guy to chime in on this since I am the biggest Michael Vick fanboi. MICHAEL VICK FOR PRESIDENT!

Doubtful.

But yes, the Eagles are absolutely making the right decision. Kevin Kolb sucks.

As far as missing a few games a year, it's nothing Reid hasn't had to overcome before. McNabb has played all 16 games only 4 times in an 11 year career. Once they trade Kolb's crappy ass for a king's ransom, they need to get a backup quarterback whose skillset more closely matched Vick's (Tavaris Jackson or Vince Young) so that they're not switching between two completely different offenses every like they were with Vick and Kolb.

Also, keep in mind that Clayton was ripping the Eagles in his mailbag every single week for going with Vick instead of Kolb - until the Monday night Redskins game. He desperately wants to appear to be right on this issue.

LonghornsLegend
07-05-2011, 10:33 AM
Ummm, I read that same mailbag question and I didn't consider it a 'very interesting' question, in fact it was more 'very stupid'. So, they should trade the MVP candidate at QB, coming off an insane season, for the guy who is worse, proved he was worse everytime he got to play, because he's younger?


This isn't Madden where you just take youth. Besides that, the funniest part is he mentioned to trade Vick because his "style of play leads to injuries", but how many minutes did it take for Kolb to get knocked out of the game vs GB?


But yea, trade Vick because he's always gonna be the one getting hurt. Lol. I don't even think the Eagles are that stupid.

BamaFalcon59
07-05-2011, 10:57 AM
First off, Vick has already improved leaps and bounds as a passer under Reid. He's going to continue to improve that facet of his game and become more of a passer as time goes on.

Second, Vick was in prison. He wasn't getting hit by 300 pound defensive lineman from 2007 through 2009. While age is a major part of losing athleticism, so is the wear and tear these players experience on the field.

Next, Vick is an elite level athlete. Elite. He may slow down, but he will be at minimum a 4.5 guy til at least the age of 35. Top level athletes don't slow down as fast as the average joe. Not to mention he is a QB. Vick will ALWAYS be an athletic freak for the QB position. And although he will lose portions of his athletic ability, his improved passing ability and understanding of the game should be enough to overshadow that.

Lastly, arm strength will never be an issue for Vick. And although it may fall off a bit with older players, Vick isn't near that point yet and the guys with strong arms generally keep those strong arms for a very long time.

TACKLE
07-05-2011, 12:15 PM
To answer the OP...Absolutely. Not even debatable.

Ness
07-05-2011, 02:45 PM
31 isn't that old for a quarterback. Even if they are just breaking out. Steve Young didn't break out until he was 29 and played until he was 37. He also had a knack to get hurt at times too. Vick was an MVP candidate last season. Kolb hasn't shown enough to warrant keeping over Vick...or even with Vick. Better to get some trade value for Kolb now while the hype for him is hot.

Jvig43
07-05-2011, 04:07 PM
Ummm, I read that same mailbag question and I didn't consider it a 'very interesting' question, in fact it was more 'very stupid'. So, they should trade the MVP candidate at QB, coming off an insane season, for the guy who is worse, proved he was worse everytime he got to play, because he's younger?


This isn't Madden where you just take youth. Besides that, the funniest part is he mentioned to trade Vick because his "style of play leads to injuries", but how many minutes did it take for Kolb to get knocked out of the game vs GB?


But yea, trade Vick because he's always gonna be the one getting hurt. Lol. I don't even think the Eagles are that stupid.

I have to agree with pretty much everything said here.

bigbluedefense
07-05-2011, 08:14 PM
For the life of me, I cannot understand why anyone still thinks Kevin Kolb is a good quarterback.

Kevin Kolb sucks. In 4 years, he hasn't done anything worth a damn. He's horrible. It's no longer potential after 4 years. When you suck after 4 years, you just plain suck.

XxXdragonXxX
07-05-2011, 08:36 PM
My main concern with Vick is that last year it seemed like he was either throwing deep balls to DeSean Jackson off his back foot while running away from pressure, or checking down to LeSean McCoy while running away from pressure. If he loses either one of those 2 guys, or a little bit of mobility or arm strength....who knows what happens.

I'm just not 100% convinced that he's THAT much better than he was in Atlanta. I am convinced that he has some insane weapons that fit his style of play to perfection though.

I personally wouldn't trade either of them, unless they really are able to get a 1st rounder out of Kolb (please not Seattle.) Otherwise keep Kolb around for insurance.

Splat
07-05-2011, 08:53 PM
I would trade Kevin Kolb ASAP while he still has trade value and before other teams realize how much he sucks.

jack1077
07-05-2011, 11:41 PM
Ummm, I read that same mailbag question and I didn't consider it a 'very interesting' question, in fact it was more 'very stupid'. So, they should trade the MVP candidate at QB, coming off an insane season, for the guy who is worse, proved he was worse everytime he got to play, because he's younger?


This isn't Madden where you just take youth. Besides that, the funniest part is he mentioned to trade Vick because his "style of play leads to injuries", but how many minutes did it take for Kolb to get knocked out of the game vs GB?


But yea, trade Vick because he's always gonna be the one getting hurt. Lol. I don't even think the Eagles are that stupid.

I don't think it is as cut and dry as that.

yo123
07-05-2011, 11:56 PM
Really the only thing that needs to be said about this is Kevin Kolb is ******* terrible.

YAYareaRB
07-06-2011, 01:54 AM
So theres still faith in Kolb's game because he's young? next thread

Halsey
07-06-2011, 03:57 AM
The Eagles history under Andy Reid suggests that Kolb isn't necessarily as good as he sometimes looks and that they can just go out and get another Kevin Kolb(or perhaps better) in a future Draft.

Jvig43
07-06-2011, 06:30 AM
So theres still faith in Kolb's game because he's young? next thread

That pretty much sums up the argument thus far.

bigbluedefense
07-06-2011, 11:51 AM
I don't understand why Kolb's stock is so much higher than Matt Flynn's. Flynn has shown to be a far superior qb both in the preseason and regular season. If I was trading for a qb, I'd go Flynn, then Orton.

I wouldn't touch Kolb with a 10 foot pole.

With Flynn though, you have to be careful of the whole "system qb" thing as well. The Packers run a very qb friendly offense, and the talent on that offense is through the roof. And Flynn doesn't have the biggest arm, so buyer beware.

But I'd feel much more comfortable rolling the dice on him than Kolb. Orton will probably wind up being the best value qb taken this offseason. He is what he is, we all know his limitations. But in the right system, he can be a winning NFL qb. And for a team with a coach on the hot seat, that might be exactly what he needs to keep his job.

TACKLE
07-06-2011, 12:00 PM
With Kolb though, you have to be careful of the whole "system qb" thing as well. The Eagles run a very qb friendly offense, and the talent on that offense is through the roof. And Kolb doesn't have the biggest arm, so buyer beware.

...I think this applies also.

bigbluedefense
07-06-2011, 12:05 PM
...I think this applies also.

Flynn is a system qb that has potential to be good.

Kolb is a system qb that sucks.

Ness
07-06-2011, 12:13 PM
I don't understand why Kolb's stock is so much higher than Matt Flynn's. Flynn has shown to be a far superior qb both in the preseason and regular season. If I was trading for a qb, I'd go Flynn, then Orton.

I wouldn't touch Kolb with a 10 foot pole.

With Flynn though, you have to be careful of the whole "system qb" thing as well. The Packers run a very qb friendly offense, and the talent on that offense is through the roof. And Flynn doesn't have the biggest arm, so buyer beware.

But I'd feel much more comfortable rolling the dice on him than Kolb. Orton will probably wind up being the best value qb taken this offseason. He is what he is, we all know his limitations. But in the right system, he can be a winning NFL qb. And for a team with a coach on the hot seat, that might be exactly what he needs to keep his job.

Really? Flynn looked terrible to me when he went against New England. Granted it was his first start against the best team in the league at the time and if I remember correctly it was an away game, but still...a lot of the time he was out there it really didn't look like he knew what he was doing.

bigbluedefense
07-06-2011, 12:19 PM
Really? Flynn looked terrible to me when he went against New England. Granted it was his first start against the best team in the league at the time and if I remember correctly it was an away game, but still...a lot of the time he was out there it really didn't look like he knew what he was doing.

He was ok. Compare his first start to Matt Cassell or Kolb, I think it was about on par with Cassell and lightyears better than Kolb's.

He's shown growth with each preseason as well. I'm not saying he's going to be great, but I do think there is potential there. If I had to roll the dice on a guy, I'd go with him.

The safe pick is Orton though.

Ness
07-06-2011, 12:25 PM
He was ok. Compare his first start to Matt Cassell or Kolb, I think it was about on par with Cassell and lightyears better than Kolb's.

He's shown growth with each preseason as well. I'm not saying he's going to be great, but I do think there is potential there. If I had to roll the dice on a guy, I'd go with him.

The safe pick is Orton though.
Flynn probably needs more experience is all. He does have potential like you said.

TACKLE
07-06-2011, 12:28 PM
Flynn is a system qb that has potential to be good.

Kolb is a system qb that sucks.

Oh don't get me wrong, I'm not defending Kolb at all. Just pointing out your knocks on Flynn apply very much to Kolb as well.

SickwithIt1010
07-06-2011, 01:01 PM
It is the right choice and it is the best choice. Reid knows that Kolb isnt a franchise QB...he has just convinced everyone else in this league that he is, and he will get a high draft pick for the guy. Vick made HUGE improvements last year as a passer, and it looks like Reid has gotten the best out of him. I expect him to keep progressing as a player.

Being an Eagles fan I can flat out tell you, Kevin Kolb is not a franchise QB and never will be. He just isnt that great. He is a very good backup and thats not a bad thing, people make a very good living doing that. But to tag him as your franchise guy is just a big mistake

Jvig43
07-09-2011, 09:11 AM
Lolz, didn't even get the user name right.

Bob Sanders Dreadlock
07-09-2011, 12:17 PM
It is the right choice and it is the best choice. Reid knows that Kolb isnt a franchise QB...he has just convinced everyone else in this league that he is, and he will get a high draft pick for the guy. Vick made HUGE improvements last year as a passer, and it looks like Reid has gotten the best out of him. I expect him to keep progressing as a player.

Being an Eagles fan I can flat out tell you, Kevin Kolb is not a franchise QB and never will be. He just isnt that great. He is a very good backup and thats not a bad thing, people make a very good living doing that. But to tag him as your franchise guy is just a big mistake

ESPN drove that bandwagon for him.

FUNBUNCHER
07-09-2011, 03:55 PM
Reid knows what he's doing.

THis is the same guy who traded Donovan McNabb who still has about 3-4 years left as a decent starter in the league.

In about 2-3 years, if Andy Reid is still the HC, he'll have Vick's replacement waiting on deck.

But if Reid doesn't make a deep playoff run soon, I think he's gone before the beginning of the 2013 season.

Kevin Kolb is not an elite NFL QB and I doubt he ever becomes more than a serviceable starter, if that.

VIck makes the Eagles a SB contender. It's that simple.

descendency
07-09-2011, 07:27 PM
a 30 year old Vick might be a better player in 2011, but a 34 year old Vick will not outplay a 31 year old Kevin Kolb. And Kolb will probably play into his late 30s.

This is a mistake if Andy Reid can't get a backup project that will be ready to play in 3 years.

LonghornsLegend
07-09-2011, 08:07 PM
a 30 year old Vick might be a better player in 2011, but a 34 year old Vick will not outplay a 31 year old Kevin Kolb. And Kolb will probably play into his late 30s.

This is a mistake if Andy Reid can't get a backup project that will be ready to play in 3 years.

WTF? Is that the best argument you can make? So you would always trade your MVP candidate at QB who gives you a chance to win a SB because you have a guy who in 4 years will be younger then your starter? What the hell kind of sense does that make?


Jesus Christ. This is Andy Reid were talking about, hell for what it's worth Kafka is probably gonna be just as Kolb is by that time anyway, or he'll have another replacement. Your an idiot if you'd trade Vick to keep Kolb, who gives a **** if he's 25, or 19. He's garbage. Why would you care to have a young QB?



This is the got to be one of the worst arguments I've seen in a long time. Because as we all know, the NFL is all about being as young as possible. That's totally important. Who cares if your back-up is garbage, if he's young, trade away your top 10 QB right now even though Kolb has shown nothing to lead anyone to believe he'd lead them to the SB.

K Train
07-09-2011, 08:14 PM
i remember hearing from john madden that kolb made andy reid light up like a christmas tree...yet hes done nothing but gone with mcnabb and vick over kolb. i personally dont think kolb is that good and im a pretty big vick fan, but i do understand why teams would want to opt for him over a rookie QB, its now or never for kolb hes either gonna be good now or its not gonna happen. i persoanlly dont think hes as good of a trade option as cassell and shaub were, so if the eagles really want a first rounder or an impact player for him i think they wont get very much interest

Ness
07-09-2011, 09:34 PM
i remember hearing from john madden that kolb made andy reid light up like a christmas tree...yet hes done nothing but gone with mcnabb and vick over kolb. i personally dont think kolb is that good and im a pretty big vick fan, but i do understand why teams would want to opt for him over a rookie QB, its now or never for kolb hes either gonna be good now or its not gonna happen. i persoanlly dont think hes as good of a trade option as cassell and shaub were, so if the eagles really want a first rounder or an impact player for him i think they wont get very much interest

Well a first round selection is out of the question for Kolb and is basically an insult to everyone's intelligence. Should be a second rounder at the highest.

Ness
07-09-2011, 09:36 PM
a 30 year old Vick might be a better player in 2011, but a 34 year old Vick will not outplay a 31 year old Kevin Kolb. And Kolb will probably play into his late 30s.

This is a mistake if Andy Reid can't get a backup project that will be ready to play in 3 years.
Well if Kolb is just a terrible passer it's not going to really matter what the age difference is.

ArkyRamsFan
07-10-2011, 01:12 AM
Well if Kolb is just a terrible passer it's not going to really matter what the age difference is.

This sums it up perfectly...

descendency
07-10-2011, 03:05 AM
WTF? Is that the best argument you can make? So you would always trade your MVP candidate at QB who gives you a chance to win a SB because you have a guy who in 4 years will be younger then your starter? What the hell kind of sense does that make?

You're simplifying that way too much. Not only am I taking Kolb because he's younger, but because he'll have a longer shelf life. Vick will be lucky to play at all until he's 33. He takes a ton of hits and hasn't built up what it takes to be a long term success at QB in the NFL (blitz recognition, touch, etc).

And I don't think Kolb is as bad as some might be giving him credit for. I doubt Reid even considers trading him to a contender. It will be some team like Arizona or Seattle.

The reason you trade Kolb over Vick is that Vick has virtually zero trade value whereas Kolb probably commands at least a 1st. Vick is 30 and a "mobile QB". The list of people buying that right now is limited to the list of teams that are built to win right now, save a QB. Which is basically no one.

hockey619
07-10-2011, 08:34 AM
You're simplifying that way too much. Not only am I taking Kolb because he's younger, but because he'll have a longer shelf life. Vick will be lucky to play at all until he's 33. He takes a ton of hits and hasn't built up what it takes to be a long term success at QB in the NFL (blitz recognition, touch, etc).

And I don't think Kolb is as bad as some might be giving him credit for. I doubt Reid even considers trading him to a contender. It will be some team like Arizona or Seattle.

The reason you trade Kolb over Vick is that Vick has virtually zero trade value whereas Kolb probably commands at least a 1st. Vick is 30 and a "mobile QB". The list of people buying that right now is limited to the list of teams that are built to win right now, save a QB. Which is basically no one.

Longer shelf life....so kolb can be mediocre/awful for longer? because people here are being nice to him. He doesnt deserve the bit of credit hes getting. There is no 'potential' with him. He sucks, people need to watch him, realize this, and move on.

Anyone who thinks kolb still has a chance in the league is lost. He might be serviceable with big targets around him like fitz or BMW, but the fact remains that...

1) hes in a qb friendly system in Philly, and has still struggled with basics...after four years of great tutelage that made mcnabb an all star and vick look like a great passer a year removed from prison.

2) hes the only qb that has struggled in said offense, garcia was very good in it, hell hes been about as successful as feeley, detmer, and mcmahon were for reid. and i dont see anyone clammerring for any of those losers.

3) if he were that good, a young franchise caliber qb, wouldnt the eagles be keeping him? theres a reason they are ready to move him: people are way over valuing him.

4) basics hes struggled with: reads, staring down recievers, weak arm, not very accurate, durability questions, this list could probably be longer if i went back and watched his snaps, that stuff is just off the top of my head.


He could be a solid backup, billy volek like in my opinion. But hes not a franchise guy. Some team will give up a second and a future something for him, then a few years down the line will have a top five pick and get their franchise guy. Hes just a waste of a traded pick, hes not taking anyone anywhere.

LonghornsLegend
07-10-2011, 11:20 AM
You're simplifying that way too much. Not only am I taking Kolb because he's younger, but because he'll have a longer shelf life. Vick will be lucky to play at all until he's 33. He takes a ton of hits and hasn't built up what it takes to be a long term success at QB in the NFL (blitz recognition, touch, etc).

And I don't think Kolb is as bad as some might be giving him credit for. I doubt Reid even considers trading him to a contender. It will be some team like Arizona or Seattle.

The reason you trade Kolb over Vick is that Vick has virtually zero trade value whereas Kolb probably commands at least a 1st. Vick is 30 and a "mobile QB". The list of people buying that right now is limited to the list of teams that are built to win right now, save a QB. Which is basically no one.




I'm not going to waste my time much on this argument because it's insane to say the least. To you point "Reid won't send him to a contender", think about that for a minute. If a team is a contender they have a QB already, if they don't have a QB their not a contender, they go hand in hand.


Can you name me one contender that doesn't have a QB already? It's not like he's specifically shopping him to certain teams, only QB needy teams are interested, and of course those teams are terrible because they don't have a QB.



Also Vick has zero trade value? Wow this just gets better and better. He has no trade value because he's not getting traded. If Vick was on the block instead he'd be getting a ton of attention and offers, what your saying has no merit what so ever.


You can live in your fantasy world where you want the average back-up QB because he's young and has more years to play. All you do is talk about how Vick isn't built to play long, he'll get hurt, etc etc etc. Yet again, fail to mention how Kolb had a starting spot once upon a time, and he got hurt before the 1st quarter of the first game of the season was over.


Yet let's base our entire argument around the guy who "probably" will get hurt. At least he's young though right?