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REDSKINSWARRIOR82
07-05-2011, 04:21 PM
Ok i ama Redskins fan no shock here. is it pretty much a lock now that we get this guy, Redskins are the worst team in the NFL.

We have the worst Dline, Worst oline, We have no Qb. The worst starting Rbs, we have 1 wide out Moss wh ois a free agent. the secondary is shaky too.

1-15 for the Skins in 2011 lock.

no other team needs this more that my Redskins. We need a Franchise Qb bad.

bucfan12
07-05-2011, 04:32 PM
Um, honestly, you never know. Do I think SHannahan getting rid of McNabb in order to start Grossman or John Beck is a sign he wants a shot at Luck? Definately. But I hope the consensus in this lockerroom for the Redskins isn't to tank the season and I think thats what they might try to do.

I don't care how many people say McNabb is washed up and garbage, he could still lead the Redskins to atleast 5 or 6 wins, while Grossman or Beck probably can't top 3, unless they play outstanding defense and get back to the run game. They already drafted a bust in Trent Williams, who IMO, was not worthy of a top 15 selection in 2010.

To sum it up, the Redskins are in deep $H*T, unless they land Luck next year.

SativaDominant
07-05-2011, 04:46 PM
Not to mention, they drafted a 4-3 defensive end and will horribly miscast him as a 3-4 linebacker.

They're gonna be bad. Really, really bad.

TACKLE
07-05-2011, 05:02 PM
Well this seems like a terrible plan considering there seems like a pretty good chance he would get canned if they ended up with the #1 pick, especially with Dan Snyder calling the shots. Who knows though? Maybe Shanny's willing to risk it in order for him to get himself his new Jake Plummer.

YAYareaRB
07-05-2011, 05:15 PM
Ma'ake Kemoeatu makes this a 10 win team

niel89
07-05-2011, 05:18 PM
Just watch them win 1 too many games and pick #2.

dannyz
07-05-2011, 06:10 PM
Just watch them win 1 too many games and pick #2.

Yeah I could see something like that happening.

Bucs_Rule
07-05-2011, 06:14 PM
He's the teams schedule. They play the NFC West, Seattle, 49ers, Cardinals, and Carolina, Buffalo. A bunch of very winnable games. It only takes a few wins to miss the top pick.

Minny with Ponder/McNabb could be very bad. Eagles in last week might be resting.

New York Giants
Arizona Cardinals
@ Dallas Cowboys
@ St. Louis Rams
BYE --- ---
Philadelphia Eagles
@ Carolina Panthers
@ Buffalo Bills
San Francisco 49ers
@ Miami Dolphins
Dallas Cowboys
@ Seattle Seahawks
New York Jets
New England Patriots
@ New York Giants
Minnesota Vikings
@ Philadelphia Eagles

REDSKINSWARRIOR82
07-05-2011, 06:28 PM
Um, honestly, you never know. Do I think SHannahan getting rid of McNabb in order to start Grossman or John Beck is a sign he wants a shot at Luck? Definately. But I hope the consensus in this lockerroom for the Redskins isn't to tank the season and I think thats what they might try to do.

I don't care how many people say McNabb is washed up and garbage, he could still lead the Redskins to atleast 5 or 6 wins, while Grossman or Beck probably can't top 3, unless they play outstanding defense and get back to the run game. They already drafted a bust in Trent Williams, who IMO, was not worthy of a top 15 selection in 2010.

To sum it up, the Redskins are in deep $H*T, unless they land Luck next year.

This is way way way bigger than Shannahan. This is Dan Synders call 100%. i dont care what Shannahan wants. No way my Skins can pass on the second John Elway because Shannahan doesnt want a young kid. If you remember the Steelers won the super bowl with a 2nd year Big ben.Redskins havent had a franchise Qb his Theisman in the 80s.

REDSKINSWARRIOR82
07-05-2011, 06:29 PM
Not to mention, they drafted a 4-3 defensive end and will horribly miscast him as a 3-4 linebacker.

They're gonna be bad. Really, really bad.


Oh 90% of Smart Redskins fans already know this season is going 1-15 to get Andrew Luck. And i am ok with it.

REDSKINSWARRIOR82
07-05-2011, 06:30 PM
Well this seems like a terrible plan considering there seems like a pretty good chance he would get canned if they ended up with the #1 pick, especially with Dan Snyder calling the shots. Who knows though? Maybe Shanny's willing to risk it in order for him to get himself his new Jake Plummer.


Not going to happen. Dan Synder is total fanboy of Shannahan. He knows we are a terrible team. We get Andrew Luck in 2012 and spend 200 million on free agents. Skins air force 1 is ready and waiting.

REDSKINSWARRIOR82
07-05-2011, 06:36 PM
He's the teams schedule. They play the NFC West, Seattle, 49ers, Cardinals, and Carolina, Buffalo. A bunch of very winnable games. It only takes a few wins to miss the top pick.

Minny with Ponder/McNabb could be very bad. Eagles in last week might be resting.

New York Giants
Arizona Cardinals
@ Dallas Cowboys
@ St. Louis Rams
BYE --- ---
Philadelphia Eagles
@ Carolina Panthers
@ Buffalo Bills
San Francisco 49ers
@ Miami Dolphins
Dallas Cowboys
@ Seattle Seahawks
New York Jets
New England Patriots
@ New York Giants
Minnesota Vikings
@ Philadelphia Eagles

We should be atleast 7 points under dogs to every single team we play this season. People dont get how historically terrible my Redskins will be this year. They are terrrrrrrrrriiiiibllllle.

Preston
07-05-2011, 07:03 PM
He's the teams schedule. They play the NFC West, Seattle, 49ers, Cardinals, and Carolina, Buffalo. A bunch of very winnable games. It only takes a few wins to miss the top pick.

Minny with Ponder/McNabb could be very bad. Eagles in last week might be resting.

New York Giants
Arizona Cardinals
@ Dallas Cowboys
@ St. Louis Rams
BYE --- ---
Philadelphia Eagles
@ Carolina Panthers
@ Buffalo Bills
San Francisco 49ers
@ Miami Dolphins
Dallas Cowboys
@ Seattle Seahawks
New York Jets
New England Patriots
@ New York Giants
Minnesota Vikings
@ Philadelphia Eagles

Can't see them going to Buffalo, Carolina or Seattle to get wins. Only two chances for a victory are to sneak a home win against the Cardinals or Vikings.

Roddoliver
07-05-2011, 07:24 PM
The Redskins could have built a good 4-3 DL with Orakpo-Haynesworth-Jenkins-Kerrigan. Oh well...

Pat Sims 90
07-05-2011, 07:37 PM
I would say the Redskins are in better shape then the Bengals. The only thing we have to look forward this year is 2 WRs and a TE.

K Train
07-05-2011, 07:41 PM
Um, honestly, you never know. Do I think SHannahan getting rid of McNabb in order to start Grossman or John Beck is a sign he wants a shot at Luck? Definately. But I hope the consensus in this lockerroom for the Redskins isn't to tank the season and I think thats what they might try to do.

I don't care how many people say McNabb is washed up and garbage, he could still lead the Redskins to atleast 5 or 6 wins, while Grossman or Beck probably can't top 3, unless they play outstanding defense and get back to the run game. They already drafted a bust in Trent Williams, who IMO, was not worthy of a top 15 selection in 2010.

To sum it up, the Redskins are in deep $H*T, unless they land Luck next year.
damn i didnt know trent williams busted so hard already....little premature?

bucfan12
07-05-2011, 08:18 PM
damn i didnt know trent williams busted so hard already....little premature?

Come on dude, reports say he lacks the type of work ethic required and that was coming from coaches and players from Oklahoma and apparently hasn't changed. He just looks sluggish and I just can't see him panning out as an elite left tackle in this league, which he should be when drafted 4th overall.

gpngc
07-05-2011, 08:52 PM
Seattle has a rougher schedule. Just saying...

REDSKINSWARRIOR82
07-06-2011, 08:38 AM
I would say the Redskins are in better shape then the Bengals. The only thing we have to look forward this year is 2 WRs and a TE.

Who knows its not a Lock that the Skins get the #1 pick. but i dont think the Bengals would take Andrew Luck anyways.

REDSKINSWARRIOR82
07-06-2011, 08:39 AM
Seattle has a rougher schedule. Just saying...

Seahawks have a much better team than the Skins, please they have a good Rb, Qb, Wideouts, Cbs, safeties. Redskins have 2 good Linebackers. and thats about it. If they sign Santana Moss back that will help.

FUNBUNCHER
07-06-2011, 09:01 AM
One thing about the SKins, better teams usually play down to their level, rarely bringing their A game and blowing them out.


I can only remember three horrific blowouts in the last 5-10 years, one by Tiki and the Giants,( something like 39-0), the Pats undefeated regular season team, and the Eagles last year.

When teams go in thinking they only need to score 17-21 points to shut your team down, IMO psychologically they don't get up to play you.

With the lockout still ongoing, there will be several teams IMO who are going struggle offensively early in the season, not just a Skins team QBed by Grossman/Beck.

The over/under on the Luck sweepstakes is 4 wins.

That's a hard number to achieve even for a talent deficient team like Washington.

The difference between 3-13 and 5-11 is a couple of fumble recoveries a few special teams TDs.

FUNBUNCHER
07-06-2011, 09:12 AM
Come on dude, reports say he lacks the type of work ethic required and that was coming from coaches and players from Oklahoma and apparently hasn't changed. He just looks sluggish and I just can't see him panning out as an elite left tackle in this league, which he should be when drafted 4th overall.

Trent Williams was the SKins best Oline by far last season, and more than held his own against Ware, etc in the NFCE, Julius Peppers and Mario Williams last season.

He was gassed towards the end of the year and got injured, but he more than lived up to his billing.

Looked sluggish?? Hardly.

Does Silverback have a gut and need to get in better shape and much stronger to be a consistent pro bowler??

Yeah.

Coombser
07-06-2011, 10:02 AM
Seahawks have a much better team than the Skins, please they have a good Rb, Qb, Wideouts, Cbs, safeties. Redskins have 2 good Linebackers. and thats about it. If they sign Santana Moss back that will help.

Dude - the Hawks have a good QB? Ummmm....last time I looked, Charlie Whitehurst wasn't exactly Marino-esque....

REDSKINSWARRIOR82
07-06-2011, 10:54 AM
One thing about the SKins, better teams usually play down to their level, rarely bringing their A game and blowing them out.


I can only remember three horrific blowouts in the last 5-10 years, one by Tiki and the Giants,( something like 39-0), the Pats undefeated regular season team, and the Eagles last year.

When teams go in thinking they only need to score 17-21 points to shut your team, IMO psychologically they don't get up to play you.

With the lockout still ongoing, there will be several teams IMO who are going struggle offensively early in the season, not just a Skins team QBed by Grossman/Beck.

The over/under on the Luck sweepstakes is 4 wins.

That's a hard number to achieve even for a talent deficient team like Washington.

The difference between 3-13 and 5-11 is a couple of fumble recoveries a few special teams TDs.

As a fellow Redskin fan and all, but i dont see this team winning 5 games. not even 3. The NFC East is very hard. the Cowboys will beat us twice, so will the Gmen and Eagles. and 90% of the other teams we play also.

REDSKINSWARRIOR82
07-06-2011, 10:57 AM
Dude - the Hawks have a good QB? Ummmm....last time I looked, Charlie Whitehurst wasn't exactly Marino-esque....

Yeah and The Skins dont have a Qb signed to the roster not named McNabb who will be let go when the NFL gets a deal done. Why are we fighting over who is following the worse team? doesnt that make us both look bad? thats why fighting over whos girlfriend is uglier. No my girlfriend looks like a horse. yeah whatever my girlfriends face scares little children.

ArkyRamsFan
07-06-2011, 01:11 PM
Would you be willing to go 0 - 16 like Detroit did a few years ago? Believe it or not 1 - 15 might not get the job done. There are some pretty putrid teams in the NFL and anyone of them might have the same strategy as you all.

At any rate I really have to question if Shanahan and Haslett would be on board with run-the-table and lose 'em all approach.

These guys have too much pride to get stuck with the ignomious label of 0 - 16 all-time losers.

REDSKINSWARRIOR82
07-06-2011, 03:41 PM
Would you be willing to go 0 - 16 like Detroit did a few years ago? Believe it or not 1 - 15 might not get the job done. There are some pretty putrid teams in the NFL and anyone of them might have the same strategy as you all.

At any rate I really have to question if Shanahan and Haslett would be on board with run-the-table and lose 'em all approach.

These guys have too much pride to get stuck with the ignomious label of 0 - 16 all-time losers.

no i dont want my Skins to go 0-16.

1-15 fine, that shows that they didnt just quit. and 0-16 means all time terrible.

Shane P. Hallam
07-06-2011, 04:08 PM
I'd probably make a pretty firm bet Redskins don't get #1 overall pick.

PossibleCabbage
07-06-2011, 09:18 PM
I'd probably make a pretty firm bet Redskins don't get #1 overall pick.

It's a pretty wide open field for the #1 overall pick, there are some teams who just drafted a QB high who might get it, which would be awkward.

Carolina has the hardest schedule for 2011 (based on 2010 record), Buffalo has the second hardest, the Broncos are tied for the third hardest schedule (with seven other teams, none of which will be picking #1 overall), and the Dolphins and Vikings are tied for the 10th hardest schedule (along with the Texans who probably aren't in contention for #1 overall).

The Redskins actually are tied with the Bengals for the 27th hardest schedule, and neither of them are likely to end up with the #1 overall pick. The Cardinals, who desperately need a QB, have the 32nd hardest schedule... so I don't think they'll be in the Luck sweepstakes either.

It would be pretty unfortunate if Carolina (Cam Newton), Denver (Tim Tebow), or Minnesota (Christian Ponder) ends up with the #1 overall pick next year, but those are bad teams with tough schedules, so it could happen. I wonder how many of the teams who just recently drafted a QB high would cut bait if they ended up picking in the Andrew Luck spot.

ellsy82
07-06-2011, 09:30 PM
I'll note that SOS rarely has any guiding data on where a team lands in the draft. Several teams in recent years have had top 5 toughest SOS and they made deep playoff runs.

Three things that I look at when determining where a team's record will end up.

1. Franchise QB.
2. Top 15 defense
3. Solid coaching staff.

Going off of those three factors, I'd have to say the prime candidates are:

1) Washington - no QB, bad defense, shaking coaching staff
2) Miami - no QB, suspect coaching staff
3) Cincy - no QB (rookie w/ no offseason camps), suspect defense
4) Tennessee - no QB (rookie w/ no camps), shaky coaching staff

I leave Buffalo and Denver off the list due to not knowing what they have at QB, and I leave Arizona off the least because I believe the coaching staff is stable and they'll find a QB in free agency.

Just my two cents though.

PossibleCabbage
07-06-2011, 09:34 PM
I'll note that SOS rarely has any guiding data on where a team lands in the draft. Several teams in recent years have had top 5 toughest SOS and they made deep playoff runs.

Three things that I look at when determining where a team's record will end up.

1. Franchise QB.
2. Top 15 defense
3. Solid coaching staff.

Going off of those three factors, I'd have to say the prime candidates are:

1) Washington - no QB, bad defense, shaking coaching staff
2) Miami - no QB, suspect coaching staff
3) Cincy - no QB (rookie w/ no offseason camps), suspect defense
4) Tennessee - no QB (rookie w/ no camps), shaky coaching staff

I leave Buffalo and Denver off the list due to not knowing what they have at QB, and I leave Arizona off the least because I believe the coaching staff is stable and they'll find a QB in free agency.

Just my two cents though.

You should add Carolina (no established veteran QB, new coaching staff, #26 scoring defense in 2010) and Minnesota (no established veteran QB, new coaching staff, #18 scoring defense in 2010) to your list.

FUNBUNCHER
07-06-2011, 09:38 PM
I think Buffalo wins at least 6 games.

My fave contenders for Luck are Arizona, Denver, Minnesota......and the Skins.

Even if Carolina is the worst team in the NFL next season, there's no way IMO the Panthers give up on Cam in one season after drafting him 1/1 the year before.

I hate Whisenhunt, so it would suck if he was gifted with Andrew Luck. Tebow by himself is worth 3 wins for the Broncos. The Vikes are playing in a brutal division, but I think there's too much talent on that team not to win at least 5-8 games.

What about Cincy?? Lots of defensive talent, nice pieces on offense, but Palmer has threatened to retire and Dalton is at least a season away from being ready to play, no better than 8 games IMO before he's ready to lead the offense which would be midseason.

The Bengals are a team I could see imploding; they could totally quit on Marvin Lewis, win 3 games, and draft Luck which would be enough enticement to bring a Cowher/Gruden out of retirement.

I want Luck bad for Washington, but as a football fan it would be kinda cool if the Bengals were the winners of the Andrew Luck sweepstakes.

Pat Sims 90
07-06-2011, 10:12 PM
I think Buffalo wins at least 6 games.

My fave contenders for Luck are Arizona, Denver, Minnesota......and the Skins.

Even if Carolina is the worst team in the NFL next season, there's no way IMO the Panthers give up on Cam in one season after drafting him 1/1 the year before.

I hate Whisenhunt, so it would suck if he was gifted with Andrew Luck. Tebow by himself is worth 3 wins for the Broncos. The Vikes are playing in a brutal division, but I think there's too much talent on that team not to win at least 5-8 games.

What about Cincy?? Lots of defensive talent, nice pieces on offense, but Palmer has threatened to retire and Dalton is at least a season away from being ready to play, no better than 8 games IMO before he's ready to lead the offense which would be midseason.

The Bengals are a team I could see imploding; they could totally quit on Marvin Lewis, win 3 games, and draft Luck which would be enough enticement to bring a Cowher/Gruden out of retirement.

I want Luck bad for Washington, but as a football fan it would be kinda cool if the Bengals were the winners of the Andrew Luck sweepstakes.

They don't have to quit on Marvin. Just having him as Coach makes them in the running for 1st overall Pick. Mike Brown won't bring in a high profile Coach he is too cheap for that. Marvin signed a 2 yr deal so i doubt Mike Brown Fire hims he has stayed here this long with pretty mediocre teams.
If we have to start Jordan Palmer then i guarantee the 1st overall pick. If they Start Dalton or Dan Levfour then they will prolly win 2 or 3 games. So if Washington goes like 1-15 or 2-14 they will get it but i think the clear Favor for 1st overall should be Cincy at this point with what they have to bring to the table as QB. I would take John Beck over Jordan Palmer or any other QB on this roster.

PossibleCabbage
07-06-2011, 10:23 PM
Even if Carolina is the worst team in the NFL next season, there's no way IMO the Panthers give up on Cam in one season after drafting him 1/1 the year before.

I think, that no matter who gets the #1 overall pick, Luck is going #1 overall. If it's a team that just took a QB high, if they don't decide Luck is enough better than who they took recently to spend the top pick on they'll trade the pick. I think this year is the year when you can get someone to pay close to what the #1 overall pick is worth in trade. Though the standard dodge is of course to include veteran players in the trade so the value chart no longer applies.

Victory X
07-06-2011, 10:28 PM
I think Buffalo wins at least 6 games.

My fave contenders for Luck are Arizona, Denver, Minnesota......and the Skins.

Even if Carolina is the worst team in the NFL next season, there's no way IMO the Panthers give up on Cam in one season after drafting him 1/1 the year before.

[B]I hate Whisenhunt[/b/], so it would suck if he was gifted with Andrew Luck. Tebow by himself is worth 3 wins for the Broncos. The Vikes are playing in a brutal division, but I think there's too much talent on that team not to win at least 5-8 games.

What about Cincy?? Lots of defensive talent, nice pieces on offense, but Palmer has threatened to retire and Dalton is at least a season away from being ready to play, no better than 8 games IMO before he's ready to lead the offense which would be midseason.

The Bengals are a team I could see imploding; they could totally quit on Marvin Lewis, win 3 games, and draft Luck which would be enough enticement to bring a Cowher/Gruden out of retirement.

I want Luck bad for Washington, but as a football fan it would be kinda cool if the Bengals were the winners of the Andrew Luck sweepstakes.

Why do you hate Whisenhunt??????

gpngc
07-06-2011, 10:42 PM
How funny would it be if Arizona gave up a first for Kevin Kolb and it turned out to be #1 because Kolb sucked...

That would be as bad as a team in the NBA giving up a first that would have been an elite PG to team up with their young superstar big man...

FUNBUNCHER
07-06-2011, 10:43 PM
I think he's an arrogant SOB who destroys QBs.

Nothing against the Cards squad, I rooted for them in the SB, but Whisenhunt just rubs me the wrong way.

Victory X
07-06-2011, 10:49 PM
I think he's an arrogant SOB who destroys QBs.

Nothing against the Cards squad, I rooted for them in the SB, but Whisenhunt just rubs me the wrong way.

http://i348.photobucket.com/albums/q332/yoddle321/kurtwarner.jpg

ellsy82
07-06-2011, 10:51 PM
I think he's an arrogant SOB who destroys QBs.

Nothing against the Cards squad, I rooted for them in the SB, but Whisenhunt just rubs me the wrong way.

What? He did so well with Kordell Stewart! Seriously, if somehow Green Bay/New Orleans/New England or even my Pittsburgh Steelers end up drafting first in 2012, you pick Luck. Regardless of who is already on the roster.

Having said such, I'd like to point out that Locker was easily the top pick in the 2010 draft if he had come out that year. Point is, we really won't know a whole lot until the season begins, ends, offseason interviews, the combine and pro days are completed. I mean, its possible Luck performs poorly due to injury or something...but as it stands right now, he's right up there with Sam Bradford as a QB prospect going into his senior year. Its his first overall pick to lose.

Nice comment on the Whisenhunt trade, btw. What a fiasco that would be if they give up a first for Charlie, finish dead last, and aren't left with a first round pick to take Luck with. Buwhahaha. Oh, Steeler-west, don't be so dumb.

gpngc
07-06-2011, 10:51 PM
I think he's an arrogant SOB who destroys QBs.

Nothing against the Cards squad, I rooted for them in the SB, but Whisenhunt just rubs me the wrong way.

It's entirely possible that his value as a coach was a little exaggerated coming from that organization on such a high note. And think about it - they didn't even hire him.

I was actually watching an old SFX today (don't ask me wtf JEREMY ******* BRIDGES was wired) and thought to myself this team seems like it quits pretty easily.

And they're awkwardly inconsistent also - which could be a reflection of their coaching staff. I wouldn't be surprised if they're picking #1.

PossibleCabbage
07-06-2011, 10:59 PM
What? He did so well with Kordell Stewart! Seriously, if somehow Green Bay/New Orleans/New England or even my Pittsburgh Steelers end up drafting first in 2012, you pick Luck. Regardless of who is already on the roster.

Of course, most of these teams pick Luck to trade his rights that day, like the Chargers did with Eli Manning.

If this season pans out the way we expect, this is one of those rare situations where the haul you can get for the #1 player in trade exceeds the value of any other player you could pick at that spot.

ellsy82
07-06-2011, 11:58 PM
Hell...I'm half tempted to give up the entire 2011 season for those trading rights. Okay, not really.

If you're in a situation where you're a team with only one missing link (QB), you'd give up the house for Luck. Seattle, Arizona, possibly Minnesota, Tennessee and Cincy...that's a lot of coin to spend. I know Simms will disagree, but Cincy could be the perfect landing ground for Luck. I know his worries about the offensive line, but a year of healthy linemen will help just as much as drafting a first rounder.

ellsy82
07-06-2011, 11:59 PM
Granted...Those teams have a lot more than one missing link, but a franchise QB is a helluva start.

Pat Sims 90
07-07-2011, 12:17 AM
Hell...I'm half tempted to give up the entire 2011 season for those trading rights. Okay, not really.

If you're in a situation where you're a team with only one missing link (QB), you'd give up the house for Luck. Seattle, Arizona, possibly Minnesota, Tennessee and Cincy...that's a lot of coin to spend. I know Simms will disagree, but Cincy could be the perfect landing ground for Luck. I know his worries about the offensive line, but a year of healthy linemen will help just as much as drafting a first rounder.

Does not matter if they have a year healthy every OL starting except Whitworth can't pass block to save their Lives. They need a New LG, C, RG, RT that can stay healthy and pass block before i am bring in a Top 10 pick QB. A Majority of their Starters would be 2nd/3rd Stringers on other teams.

ellsy82
07-07-2011, 12:50 AM
Does not matter if they have a year healthy every OL starting except Whitworth can't pass block to save their Lives. They need a New LG, C, RG, RT that can stay healthy and pass block before i am bring in a Top 10 pick QB. A Majority of their Starters would be 2nd/3rd Stringers on other teams.

What happened between 2009 and 2010 that was so drastic? I mean, the running game kept Palmer up for the most part. How did thing get so bad last season? What happened?

Dam8610
07-07-2011, 01:04 AM
As long as Andrew Luck is not a Titan, Texan, or Jaguar, I'm happy.

ChiFan24
07-07-2011, 02:01 AM
Always funny when a guy is such a homer that he thinks his obviously bad team will be historically bad.

They're like a 4-6 win team depending on who they can add in free agency.

dannyz
07-07-2011, 02:21 AM
How funny would it be if Arizona gave up a first for Kevin Kolb and it turned out to be #1 because Kolb sucked...

That would be as bad as a team in the NBA giving up a first that would have been an elite PG to team up with their young superstar big man...

Another Question would be would the Eagles take Andrew Luck to be their Franchises QB? Yeah Mike Vick is good but he is also Old and that team is so Young and Talented that getting Luck would put them over the Top.

Pat Sims 90
07-07-2011, 03:09 AM
What happened between 2009 and 2010 that was so drastic? I mean, the running game kept Palmer up for the most part. How did thing get so bad last season? What happened?

They ran the Ball that is all they did in 2010 they ran the Ball like 600 times that year compared to 200 passes. This OL is built to run block and not pass block. And when the Bengals have to throw the ball more then 25 times in a game they get their ass kicked up front. Palmer made super decisions when he had 3 secs to throw the ball. And Majority of time he had no protection. It has been this bad since Steinbach, Anderson left. Levi Jones got hurt and sucked after that and Rich Braham had retired. People just dont take notice how bad they are at Pass Blocking. Palmer has had tons of injuries due to the OL. That is prolly one of the main reason he is leaving because Marvin and Mike refuse to address the OL.

HakeemtheMachine
07-07-2011, 05:38 AM
If John Beck is really the Redskins QB next year they wll be in a position to land Luck

FUNBUNCHER
07-07-2011, 06:20 AM
They ran the Ball that is all they did in 2010 they ran the Ball like 600 times that year compared to 200 passes. This OL is built to run block and not pass block. And when the Bengals have to throw the ball more then 25 times in a game they get their ass kicked up front. Palmer made super decisions when he had 3 secs to throw the ball. And Majority of time he had no protection. It has been this bad since Steinbach, Anderson left. Levi Jones got hurt and sucked after that and Rich Braham had retired. People just dont take notice how bad they are at Pass Blocking. Palmer has had tons of injuries due to the OL. That is prolly one of the main reason he is leaving because Marvin and Mike refuse to address the OL.

Palmer played poorly last season, and it can't all be put on the backs of the Oline. It's not like he was getting hit under his chin every time the minute he threw the football. Carson simply wasn't as accurate with routine passes as he's been in the past.

I don't think their Oline is that bad, but I didn't watch every single game the Bengals played last season either.

If the Bengals can't start off their season with a couple of wins in their first 4 or 5 games, I could see things in Cincinnati rolling into a death spiral very quickly.

ellsy82
07-07-2011, 08:29 AM
They ran the Ball that is all they did in 2010 they ran the Ball like 600 times that year compared to 200 passes. This OL is built to run block and not pass block. And when the Bengals have to throw the ball more then 25 times in a game they get their ass kicked up front. Palmer made super decisions when he had 3 secs to throw the ball. And Majority of time he had no protection. It has been this bad since Steinbach, Anderson left. Levi Jones got hurt and sucked after that and Rich Braham had retired. People just dont take notice how bad they are at Pass Blocking. Palmer has had tons of injuries due to the OL. That is prolly one of the main reason he is leaving because Marvin and Mike refuse to address the OL.

I can see Palmer's frustration. Brought up the Ravens/Bengals, Steelers/Bengals games last night. Yikes. They really couldn't do anything after the running game was stuffed up. Looks like that Oline really is a mess.

REDSKINSWARRIOR82
07-07-2011, 09:53 AM
I think Buffalo wins at least 6 games.

My fave contenders for Luck are Arizona, Denver, Minnesota......and the Skins.

Even if Carolina is the worst team in the NFL next season, there's no way IMO the Panthers give up on Cam in one season after drafting him 1/1 the year before.

I hate Whisenhunt, so it would suck if he was gifted with Andrew Luck. Tebow by himself is worth 3 wins for the Broncos. The Vikes are playing in a brutal division, but I think there's too much talent on that team not to win at least 5-8 games.

What about Cincy?? Lots of defensive talent, nice pieces on offense, but Palmer has threatened to retire and Dalton is at least a season away from being ready to play, no better than 8 games IMO before he's ready to lead the offense which would be midseason.

The Bengals are a team I could see imploding; they could totally quit on Marvin Lewis, win 3 games, and draft Luck which would be enough enticement to bring a Cowher/Gruden out of retirement.

I want Luck bad for Washington, but as a football fan it would be kinda cool if the Bengals were the winners of the Andrew Luck sweepstakes.

Are you nuts, your a Redskins fan but you want the Bengals to get the best QB coming out of college in the last 15 years. you need to seea Dr about your madness. Redskins need Luck.

RealityCheck
07-07-2011, 10:10 AM
Just watch them win 1 too many games and pick #2.
And still get Luck since the Panthers will go #1.

niel89
07-07-2011, 01:39 PM
And still get Luck since the Panthers will go #1.

Someone would throw ridiculous offers to Carolina in that case. My ultimate wish is for someone like Carolina to get the pick and the 49ers to make that trade happen.

bigbluedefense
07-07-2011, 02:20 PM
The Panthers really aren't that bad. If they sign Charles Johnson and Greg Hardy can give them something, they'll have some good bookends, they have a solid LB core, their secondary isn't great but isn't terrible either.

Their offense can run the rock, but they have no WRs. I dunno, I can see 4 wins. If Cam can show them something, maybe more. The talent isn't terrible on the Panthers.

Roddoliver
07-07-2011, 03:54 PM
I think the Jaguars will have the #1 pick in 2012

ArkyRamsFan
07-07-2011, 04:17 PM
I think the Jaguars will have the #1 pick in 2012

Really don't see that happening. It seems every year many predict the final demise of Jax, but, somehow, Del Rio always gets 6 to 8 wins anyway.

They play decent defense and can pound the rock with MJD. It's not a bad formula for success if you think about it.

LonghornsLegend
07-07-2011, 04:22 PM
It would be pretty unfortunate if Carolina (Cam Newton), Denver (Tim Tebow), or Minnesota (Christian Ponder) ends up with the #1 overall pick next year, but those are bad teams with tough schedules, so it could happen. I wonder how many of the teams who just recently drafted a QB high would cut bait if they ended up picking in the Andrew Luck spot.


I actually think that'd be pretty cool. Maybe we'd see some interesting trades, and depending on how that QB played, or what happens to the coaching staff they could bail on that QB. If someone like Ponder plays majority of the season and they win 1 game I'm not sure you can't really give it some strong thought, it's not like you can't trade 1 or the other at some point.


It seems like it's always a team out of nowhere to get the 1st pick. The year before everyone was picking Buffalo and look at where they finished, while no one thought Carolina would be that bad with Steve Smith & that backfield.


I think Cincy is a good bet. Andy Dalton as the supposed starter right now, a bunch of rookies and young WR's who haven't proven much, terrible offensive line, tough division, etc. Unless they can get a guy like Kyle Orton they won't win more then 3 games.

niel89
07-07-2011, 04:32 PM
At this point of the year every team thinks that they are getting better and there are reasons why each team wont be that bad. You really have to wait until the season starts when injuries happen and players just underperform.

Pat Sims 90
07-07-2011, 05:20 PM
Palmer played poorly last season, and it can't all be put on the backs of the Oline. It's not like he was getting hit under his chin every time the minute he threw the football. Carson simply wasn't as accurate with routine passes as he's been in the past.

I don't think their Oline is that bad, but I didn't watch every single game the Bengals played last season either.

If the Bengals can't start off their season with a couple of wins in their first 4 or 5 games, I could see things in Cincinnati rolling into a death spiral very quickly.

If u actually go back and watch games last year where they had to throw the Ball u can see Palmer has a man in his face at least every other throw if not every throw that Game.

Shane P. Hallam
07-07-2011, 08:12 PM
Call me a homer or hater, but I get an odd feeling Cleveland falls apart and gets it...

PossibleCabbage
07-07-2011, 09:25 PM
Call me a homer or hater, but I get an odd feeling Cleveland falls apart and gets it...

The sense I get is that the #1 pick will land in the lap of a team that implodes due to certain key injuries. I just don't think that any one player is important enough for the Browns for this to happen. They'll be bad, but I don't think they'll implode catastrophically. The only way they get the #1 pick is if somebody else doesn't implode catastrophically and the league nadir honestly isn't that terrible.

dannyz
07-07-2011, 10:19 PM
I can maybe see the Broncos getting it. If Orton leaves and Tebow has to start and they ended up 1ST in 2012 I don't think the Broncos front office would feel to bad about getting rid of McDaniel's mistake. Also Elway would Love to Get Andrew Luck.

wordofi
07-08-2011, 09:49 AM
Si los Cardinals no son capaces de conseguir un mariscal de campo este verano, pude ver a elegir por primera vez en abril de 2012. Max Hall y John Skelton no son la respuesta a los problemas de su mariscal de campo. La franquicia es mal administrada, por lo que espero que continuar con la succión. Si alguien compró el equipo de los de Bidwell, entonces se podría mejorar.

Unbiased
07-12-2011, 05:46 PM
The Redskins could have built a good 4-3 DL with Orakpo-Haynesworth-Jenkins-Kerrigan. Oh well...

This is kind of off topic, but what's with teams arbitrarily switching to a 3-4? Jags fans were obsessed with that idea last year when it was still a possibility.

Roddoliver
07-12-2011, 06:13 PM
This is kind of off topic, but what's with teams arbitrarily switching to a 3-4? Jags fans were obsessed with that idea last year when it was still a possibility.

Hype. Copycat league. "We want to be like the Ravens and Steelers". Obviously it did not work very well for the Redskins. The Bears put a very strong 4-3 defense last season. The epic 2000 Ravens defense was 4-3. I like the 4-3 a lot. You can have a big 4-man front with 280-pound DEs and 310-pound DTs. And we are seeing teams using a 4-3 SLB as a pass rusher. Orakpo in 2009, Wimbley in 2010 and Von Miller in 2011.

ellsy82
07-12-2011, 06:17 PM
This is kind of off topic, but what's with teams arbitrarily switching to a 3-4? Jags fans were obsessed with that idea last year when it was still a possibility.

Seems like the top defenses in the league the last few years have been 3-4 defenses, San Diego, Pittsburgh, Baltimore, even San Franscisco. Its a pendulum shift IMO, soon there won't be enough good 3-4 personnel for all 3-4 defenses to draft, and you'll see team start to switch back to a 4-3.

Another philosophy is that its easier to staff a 4-3 defense and without 3-4 components aleady on the roster, its best for a rebuilding team to draft big DTs that can rush the passer, for a simpler scheme, to keep thing as least complicated as possible for your young defensive players.

ArkyRamsFan
07-12-2011, 08:08 PM
This is kind of off topic, but what's with teams arbitrarily switching to a 3-4? Jags fans were obsessed with that idea last year when it was still a possibility.

This is a great question. I believe that these things go in cycles. When the league is predominantly 4 -3 then a few teams will start the process to switch over to 3 - 4; once this happens the snowball effect begins and a bunch of teams start the conversion process.

I've always thought that it is best to go in the OPPOSITE direction as the herd. If the majority of teams are 4 -3 then I'd want to be in a 3 -4.
Why? It's harder to prepare for a defense that is not as frequently seen in the week between games.

Also, I think a lot of teams look at the better defenses and think it's their scheme (like Pitt. and Bal.), but they forget that it is much more likely that it is the overall talent rather than philosophy that makes these defenses successful.

Many will disagree but I really think that Pitt or Bal would become just as successful playing a different defense than their customary 3 -4. Might take some time and retooling a bit but I wouldn't bet against them.

ellsy82
07-12-2011, 08:20 PM
Many will disagree but I really think that Pitt or Bal would become just as successful playing a different defense than their customary 3 -4. Might take some time and retooling a bit but I wouldn't bet against them.

Its actually already happening. Many of the players on both defenses are capable of playing in both schemes. Suggs, Reed, Ngata on the Ravens. Hood, Timmons, Woodley on the Steelers. Its also useful when they switch to subpackages on third down and these players are interchangable in nickle and dime.

ArkyRamsFan
07-12-2011, 08:27 PM
Another philosophy is that its easier to staff a 4-3 defense and without 3-4 components aleady on the roster, its best for a rebuilding team to draft big DTs that can rush the passer, for a simpler scheme, to keep thing as least complicated as possible for your young defensive players.

I do not agree with this assertion. I think that building a 4-3 defense is harder and more complex than a 3 -4.

Why you ask? Because it is MUCH harder to find 300+Lb defensive tackles that have the speed and athleticism to penetrate and shoot through gaps to rush the QB. However, in contrast in every draft there always seems to be a plethora of 250 -260 Lb guys available to play OLB in the 3 -4 defense.

And even if you are fortunate enough to acquire an athletic up-the-field DT another problem is that the big guys tire faster than the smaller LBs and need to be rested and rotated more frequently. And you can just about bet the farm that whoever comes in to replace him is NOT going to play at the same level.

Finally, this is why in almost every draft the athletic D tackle goes in the top 10 and frequently even higher. They are just more difficult to find and are always at a premium.

PossibleCabbage
07-12-2011, 08:45 PM
Why you ask? Because it is MUCH harder to find 300+Lb defensive tackles that have the speed and athleticism to penetrate and shoot through gaps to rush the QB. However, in contrast in every draft there always seems to be a plethora of 250 -260 Lb guys available to play OLB in the 3 -4 defense.

I think the bigger problem for 4-3 teams is finding defensive ends who are stout enough to hold an edge against OL/TE combo blocks, and athletic enough to get after the passer. Those guys are extremely rare, but so valuable that you find the top 20 littered with busts and disappointments at defensive end (Derrick Harvey, Gaines Adams, Jamaal Anderson, Erasmus James, etc.)

3-4 teams have the advantage in that they split the responsibilities of the 4-3 DE in half: the 5-tech has to be first and foremost a stout run-stuffer, while the OLB is first and foremost a pass rusher. Each has other responsibilities: 5-techs have to be able to push the pocket, and OLBs have to be able to cover; but it's just easier and cheaper to find big strong guys who can push the pocket and hold the point, and fast athletic guys who can rush the passer and cover than it is to find big, strong, fast, athletic guys who can push the pocket, hold the point, and rush the passer.

GaMeTiMe
07-12-2011, 10:12 PM
Skins won't have the #1 pick. The defense is formidable enough to hold its own and I heard this about the Broncos this off-season, but this Redskins team could run the ball more than any in history. Torain, Williams, Helu and Royster should all get work in that backfield and they're not going to want whoever is running that offense to be throwing the ball too much. It won't lead to many wins, but the ball-control offense should keep their win total above 2 and there will definitely be at least one team with 2 or less wins this year.

bigbluedefense
07-13-2011, 12:00 PM
Right now the 4-3 defense is much more desirable from a drafting standpoint. We are seeing premiere 4-3 talent falling in the draft because there are so many 3-4 teams out there with no use for that penetrating undersized DT or smaller LBs, or base LEs etc.

I'm the biggest 3-4 fan you'll ever meet, I love the 3-4 defense, but if I were a GM in today's league, I'd absolutely build a 4-3 right now bc it's easier to draft for with the current trends of the league.

LonghornsLegend
07-13-2011, 02:31 PM
I'll always think it's easier to build a 3-4 Defense. You can get pass rushers in the middle to late part of the draft relatively easy, as well as 3-4 DE's. You still need to do your homework but those guys are all through the draft.

You don't always need a big huge NT to properly run a 3-4 defense.

AntoinCD
07-13-2011, 05:28 PM
I really think there needs to be a differentiation between styles of 34s as well though. Wade Phillips for example is the D coordinator for the team that recently drafted 290lbs DE JJ Watt to play the 5 tech. He has had just 300lbs+ Jay Ratliff play NT because his system is a one gap front. However neither Ratliff nor Watt would be a good fit in a base front for Bill Belichick. Richard Seymour and Ty Warren were both drafted in the 1st round by the Patriots to play DE. Both are over 305lbs. Vince Wilfork on the nose is generously listed at around 320lbs.

At LB it is completely different as well. Pittsburgh for example love undersized DEs to play OLB like Harrison and Woodley with great strength and play with leverage. Wade Phillips loves pure speed outside like Ware. Belichick likes big, tall, rangy guys who can do everything like Willie McGinest.

I think with the increase of 34 defenses teams and fans like to make a projection. Often times they look and see a tall, heavy DE and immediately put him at 5 tech like Tyson Jackson. Or see a small, fast DE and put them at OLB like many thought Brandon Graham could be.

There are certain types that simply wont fit in the other front. A LB like Brandon Spikes has no business being near a 43 as his deficiencies in space would be emphasised. Likewise someone like Barrett Ruud or even Brian Urlacher would be completely engulfed by interior linemen.

PossibleCabbage
07-13-2011, 06:24 PM
Skins won't have the #1 pick. The defense is formidable enough to hold its own and I heard this about the Broncos this off-season, but this Redskins team could run the ball more than any in history.

On the other hand, the Redskins were 2nd worst in the league in "total defense" last year, and were second worst in the league in "passing defense" last year.

I don't think that being very bad at stopping passing offenses is a really good complement to a ball control offense.

Monomach
07-16-2011, 07:19 AM
If Dan Snyder would get out of the damned way and the Shanahans cooled their egos a little, that team could be good. I mean...John Beck? Really? With Rex Grossman as the fallback option? The idea makes me throw up in my mouth a little.

I'd be kissing McNabb's ass right now. Like him or not, he's a starting-caliber QB and he gives them the best chance of winning games. The Shanahans should have just patiently worked with him and gotten him a little more comfortable with the system, rather than pouring a gas can on top of the fire that started.

Oh, and I know it's been beaten to death but WHY ARE THEY RUNNING A 3-4?! They have most of the pieces for a beastly 4-3.

I hope they don't get Luck. I don't want him to be ruined.

FUNBUNCHER
07-16-2011, 08:09 AM
Drafting Luck would extend Mike Shanahan's HC career until age 70 and give Kyle a franchise piece to ride when Shanny handpicks Jr. to be his successor.

IMO Luck looks like a destiny changing type pick for some franchise.

I hope the Skins get Luck, but we all know that Snyder is gonna go crazy during FA and sign enough veteran talent to win 5 - 7 games.

I can't say the same for the other teams apparently in the Luck sweepstakes.

REDSKINSWARRIOR82
07-16-2011, 09:35 PM
Drafting Luck would extend Mike Shanahan's HC career until age 70 and give Kyle a franchise piece to ride when Shanny handpicks Jr. to be his successor.

IMO Luck looks like a destiny changing type pick for some franchise.

I hope the Skins get Luck, but we all know that Snyder is gonna go crazy during FA and sign enough veteran talent to win 5 - 7 games.

I can't say the same for the other teams apparently in the Luck sweepstakes.

I agree with you 100%.

dannyz
07-16-2011, 11:01 PM
I was talking to someone else and they said the Redskins will probably make a bunch of moves in FA and the players they get will help them win a couple of games and that might take them out of the Luck Sweepstakes.

PossibleCabbage
07-16-2011, 11:16 PM
Oh, and I know it's been beaten to death but WHY ARE THEY RUNNING A 3-4?! They have most of the pieces for a beastly 4-3.

The only things I can come up with are:
1) They strongly prefer Orakpo as a 3-4 OLB, and think he's miscast as either a 4-3 SLB or a 4-3 DE and think he's worth changing their personnel priorities entirely for him.
and
2) Switching to the 3-4 is really trendy now, despite the fact that of the many teams that switched over recently, it's really only worked for Green Bay and Kansas City.

#1 is a defensible reason, #2 really isn't.

Roddoliver
07-17-2011, 01:49 AM
Orakpo had 50 tackles and 11 sacks as a rookie in the 4-3. His numbers in the 3-4: 56 tackles and 8.5 sacks. He can play in the 4-3. Shanahan did not change the scheme only because of Orakpo. Shanahan was already interested in the 3-4 in his last season with the Broncos and he went to the Patriots camp in 2009 to study the 3-4 defense with Belichick.

wordofi
07-18-2011, 01:18 AM
There are certain types that simply wont fit in the other front. A LB like Brandon Spikes has no business being near a 43 as his deficiencies in space would be emphasised. Likewise someone like Barrett Ruud or even Brian Urlacher would be completely engulfed by interior linemen.

It's never made sense to me how somebody like Brian Urlacher can get so engulfed by offensive lineman. Also, it's never made any sense to me how somebody with his size has the speed that he does.