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View Full Version : Michael Vick could be better than Steve Young?


Ness
07-09-2011, 01:33 AM
So apparently there is this buzz going around about a quote that Marty Mornhinweg said:

Marty Mornhinweg believes Michael Vick could be better than Hall of Fame quarterback Steve Young -- and he should know.

The Philadelphia Eagles' offensive coordinator not only coached Young during his last two Pro Bowl seasons in San Francisco in 1997 and 1998, he also coached Brett Favre in 1996 when the future Hall of Famer won his only Super Bowl title with the Green Bay Packers. Now Mornhinweg is in charge of Vick, and as he sees it, the sky's the limit.

"Mike's got a long way to go, but, you know what? I think he can be better than Steve," Mornhinweg recently told the Philadelphia Daily News.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d820a32d6/article/eagles-oc-sees-vick-possibly-being-better-than-steve-young

Well I'll just say that if Vick plays like he did this past season for the next seven years in a row and wins a Super Bowl, sure he could be in the discussion. Good luck. He's starting to blossom around the time Young finally did, so we will see.

BigBanger
07-09-2011, 02:31 AM
People have been talking about Vick's potential since he entered the NFL. This is old news.

Ness
07-09-2011, 05:07 AM
People have been talking about Vick's potential since he entered the NFL. This is old news.

I just find it funny that this kind of statement would be made. Perhaps it's out of context.

descendency
07-09-2011, 03:04 PM
I've seen him throw the ball... lol. No.

jack1077
07-09-2011, 07:21 PM
I've seen him throw the ball... lol. No.

The first thing i said to myself when i saw this thread was, lol no.

Halsey
07-09-2011, 07:40 PM
Michael Vick is more overrated than Steve Young.

Splat
07-09-2011, 07:43 PM
He is all ready better just wait till you see his Madden rating this year...

jack1077
07-09-2011, 07:53 PM
He is all ready better just wait till you see his Madden rating this year...

His swagger rating will be amazing.

Ness
07-09-2011, 09:33 PM
Honestly I'll be surprised if he lasts more than 3 more years in terms of his health. He's not a big guy and with all the running around he does he's bound to get severely hurt...especially since he has a history where he's missed a good amount of games due to injury.

descendency
07-10-2011, 03:07 AM
He is all ready better just wait till you see his Madden rating this year...

100 THP or 101?

Ness
07-10-2011, 04:28 AM
I'll be honest. This kind of ticked me off when the quote was released. However like I said if Vick has seven more years like he did this past season and wins a Super Bowl, he'd be in the conversation.

descendency
07-10-2011, 05:35 AM
I'm going to be honest. If Mike Vick was 22, I'd be on the Vick > Steve Young bandwagon. I think he's matured a lot, but sadly for his NFL career, too late. If he had 1/10 of the work ethic that it took to be a top QB early in his career, he'd have been scary (like all time great scary).

Vick is 30, undersized, gets hit a lot, relies quite a bit on a big arm and elite mobility, has poor throwing accuracy, has poor touch, and has poor defense recognition.

stephenson86
07-10-2011, 06:10 AM
Right everyone seems to be thinking he has said that Vick IS better, he only said he could be...christ, calm down.

FUNBUNCHER
07-10-2011, 11:50 AM
Why do people forget how GREAT Steve Young was??

Vick is still trying to BE Steve Young, and he might come close, maybe win a SB, but I doubt MV will ever be as good as Young.

Steve Young was a beast for the 49ers and you could make an argument he's been one of the top 7 NFL QBs over the last 25 years.

Steve Young is the reason Mike Vick was drafted 1/1 out of Va Tech.

Steve Young is the reason Bill Walsh said he would LOVE to coach a guy like Vick.


Here are the comparisons to Steve Young;
John Elway/Tarkenton/Favre/Rodgers/Staubach.

Vick isn't in that class of QBs yet. Similar game and playing style, but Vick has yet to prove he can consistently dominate the best teams in the NFL on a somewhat consistent basis(PLAYOFFS).
Mike Vick may one day come close to replicating Young's game, but I don't imagine he ever surpasses the productivity Young had on the football field.

What's interesting is that both Young and MV got their second chance to become NFL starters at the age of 30. Will Vick put together a HOF career over the next 7-8 years, like Young did and win a SB??

Remains to be seen, but despite being a huge MV fan, I have even more respect and awe for what SY did as a 49er.

I understand fans gushing over a player, but Mornhinweg should be more measured in his optimism for Vick.

IMO Vick won't have Reid as his HC for next 8 years, and when that coaching change comes, it's going to have a radical impact on Vick's career.
Good or bad.

jack1077
07-10-2011, 03:01 PM
Why do people forget how GREAT Steve Young was??

Vick is still trying to BE Steve Young, and he might come close, maybe win a SB, but I doubt MV will ever be as good as Young.

Steve Young was a beast for the 49ers and you could make an argument he's been one of the top 7 NFL QBs over the last 25 years.

Steve Young is the reason Mike Vick was drafted 1/1 out of Va Tech.

Steve Young is the reason Bill Walsh said he would LOVE to coach a guy like Vick.


Here are the comparisons to Steve Young;
John Elway/Tarkenton/Favre/Rodgers/Staubach.

Vick isn't in that class of QBs yet. Similar game and playing style, but Vick has yet to prove he can consistently dominate the best teams in the NFL on a somewhat consistent basis(PLAYOFFS).
Mike Vick may one day come close to replicating Young's game, but I don't imagine he ever surpasses the productivity Young had on the football field.

What's interesting is that both Young and MV got their second chance to become NFL starters at the age of 30. Will Vick put together a HOF career over the next 7-8 years, like Young did and win a SB??

Remains to be seen, but despite being a huge MV fan, I have even more respect and awe for what SY did as a 49er.

I understand fans gushing over a player, but Mornhinweg should be more measured in his optimism for Vick.

IMO Vick won't have Reid as his HC for next 8 years, and when that coaching change comes, it's going to have a radical impact on Vick's career.
Good or bad.

You can make an argument that he is one of the top 3 ever to play the position, If you value efficiency highly. Young has always been a favourite of mine and i am a GB fan.

Bengalsrocket
07-10-2011, 08:38 PM
You can make an argument that he is one of the top 3 ever to play the position, If you value efficiency highly. Young has always been a favourite of mine and i am a GB fan.

top 3 ever? I guess if efficiency was the only thing valued. I don't want to get into different era QB's like Otto Graham and Tarkenton but of the modern era I don't think I could ever place Steve Young over Joe Montana, John Elway or Dan Marino (unless the only category was # of Superbowl wins). Then there are the guys that are questionably as good or possibly even better than Young like Stabler & Favre. Then then are the current players that are already likely better in Manning and Brady.

I see what you're saying, I just don't agree that he could ever be #3 on a realistic list.

FUNBUNCHER
07-10-2011, 11:32 PM
Favre and Young are really similar players IMO, except that Steve Young didn't take nearly as many wild chances with the football or riff as much as Favre did.

If you're building an alltime football team, Steve Young is a selection you could make and know you had that position locked down.

EricCartmann
07-11-2011, 12:13 AM
Steve Young played great and was at the top of the Mtn for nearly a decade. Vick only had 1 really good year. There is no way Vick can be better than Young unless he has a run of 8 straight years of top-flight football, which is highly unlikely.

Here is another story for another campfire night:
I do feel the Niners should have won more Superbowls with Steve Young and Steve Young let them down some. With Young the Niners only got 1 SB, I am thinking they should have gotten at least 2 more. I know that Roger Craig fumble in the Championship game was not Youngs fault, but still.... Then there were those 3 GB losses, and those 2 Cowboy losses, and I remember the Falcons loss too.

LonghornsLegend
07-12-2011, 04:06 PM
Steve Young played great and was at the top of the Mtn for nearly a decade. Vick only had 1 really good year. There is no way Vick can be better than Young unless he has a run of 8 straight years of top-flight football, which is highly unlikely.

Here is another story for another campfire night:
I do feel the Niners should have won more Superbowls with Steve Young and Steve Young let them down some. With Young the Niners only got 1 SB, I am thinking they should have gotten at least 2 more. I know that Roger Craig fumble in the Championship game was not Youngs fault, but still.... Then there were those 3 GB losses, and those 2 Cowboy losses, and I remember the Falcons loss too.



Well GB, SF, and Dal was running the NFC for some time through the 90's, so it's hard to fault him for losing out to some other HOF QB's and really stacked teams. Maybe they should have won more, but it was a tough time for anyone else trying to compete.



Steve Young is the reason Mike Vick was drafted 1/1 out of Va Tech.


I get the point your trying to make and I see where your going, but this is overboard. Steve Young had nothing to do with Vick going #1 overall. Vick carrying V Tech on his back to a National Championship, having out of this world measurables and a ridiculous arm were the reasons he wen't #1 overall.

FUNBUNCHER
07-12-2011, 04:18 PM
Mike Vick was a playmaker in college, but the only thing 'pro' about his game was his arm, release and mobility.

Because he was also a lefty, he heard and benefited from the Steve Young comparison, right or wrong.

Forget Va Tech's record while MV was there, look at his stats. As a quarterback, he simply didn't produce at a level that would make one automatically assume he would be a great or productive pro QB.

His raw tools and the repeated talk that if he could be developed, Vick could be another Steve Young but with 4.2 speed, is IMO what allowed Vick to go #1 overall in a weak QB class.

I love MV and watching him play, but it's still a mystery to me in hindsight how he went where he did in the draft.

He was the last QB IMO who was drafted strictly on his potential and upside.

bigbluedefense
07-12-2011, 04:33 PM
Mike Vick was a playmaker in college, but the only thing 'pro' about his game was his arm, release and mobility.

Because he was also a lefty, he heard and benefited from the Steve Young comparison, right or wrong.

Forget Va Tech's record while MV was there, look at his stats. As a quarterback, he simply didn't produce at a level that would make one automatically assume he would be a great or productive pro QB.

His raw tools and the repeated talk that if he could be developed, Vick could be another Steve Young but with 4.2 speed, is IMO what allowed Vick to go #1 overall in a weak QB class.

I love MV and watching him play, but it's still a mystery to me in hindsight how he went where he did in the draft.

He was the last QB IMO who was drafted strictly on his potential and upside.

Tim Tebow?

zzzzzz?

FUNBUNCHER
07-12-2011, 05:06 PM
Tebow was more statistically productive than Vick.

As much as a I ripped Gabbert for being a 'blah' prospect, Vick in his final season at Va Tech threw for 8 TDs/6 INTs, less than 1300 yards, and ran for 600 yards and 8 TDs.

He threw for slightly more yards as a RS Frosh, but still was a career 59%/54% passer in two seasons for the Hokies.

He demonstrated the ability I guess to make some 'pro throws', but seriously what prospect could ever be considered the 1st pick overall with those numbers??

Really, there was barely enough of a sample size to evaluate Vick.
He still had that hair-trigger, wrist flip release and bazooka arm, and unheard of speed and running ability for a QB, but if there wasn't a player to compare Vick to as a pro ,Steve Young, I can't imagine him going when he did.

bigbluedefense
07-12-2011, 05:13 PM
Tebow was drafted strictly based off his intangibles and physique. That's it. He had no skills that translated to the NFL. I'd say he was a bigger project qb than Vick was.

Bucs_Rule
07-12-2011, 08:37 PM
And Bradford could be better then Manning

Roddoliver
07-12-2011, 09:06 PM
Tebow was drafted strictly based off his intangibles and physique. That's it. He had no skills that translated to the NFL.

Hmmmmm... No. That's so ignorant that my eyes hurt.

FUNBUNCHER
07-12-2011, 09:45 PM
Tebow was drafted strictly based off his intangibles and physique. That's it. He had no skills that translated to the NFL. I'd say he was a bigger project qb than Vick was.


Tebow was much more advanced as a QB after 4 years under Urban Meyer as far as understanding passing concepts and basic reading of coverages.

Tebow has a funky throwing motion and a looping delivery, but every other critique of his game,(primarily accuracy and arm strength) IMO was exaggerated predraft.

Tebow was much more pro ready than Vick, mainly from a cerebral/analytical approach to the game.

Anyone who follows Gators football can tell you after watching them suck in 2010 that Tebow wasn't the product of the system, he WAS the system.

We never saw Vick throw the ball 30-35 times in college, throw 4 TDs in a game, or win a matchup strictly with his arm. Va Tech's passing offense was really sandlot and far from a precision aerial attack when MV was there.

Frank Beamer basically passed to compliment the run game, and Vick was essentially allowed to totally freelance on passing downs.

If Tebow simply had a naturally cleaner throwing motion at UF, I think he would have pushed Bradford for the #1 selection.

LonghornsLegend
07-12-2011, 09:57 PM
I love MV and watching him play, but it's still a mystery to me in hindsight how he went where he did in the draft.

Lol. I guess so. You can not be a fan of Vick but this doesn't make very much sense to me.


Also, none of what you said has anything to do with Steve Young being the reason Vick went 1st.

stlouisfan37
07-12-2011, 10:17 PM
"And Bradford could be better then Manning"

I seriously hope you were being facetious. I'm a Rams fan, and I absolutely love Sam Bradford, but I'm not going out on that limb. When Peyton Manning's career ends his numbers will likely be the QB version of Jerry Rice's.

FUNBUNCHER
07-12-2011, 10:58 PM
Lol. I guess so. You can not be a fan of Vick but this doesn't make very much sense to me.


Also, none of what you said has anything to do with Steve Young being the reason Vick went 1st.


Vick benefited from the automatic comparison to Steve Young, because their tools and playing styles were similar.

It would be like, if WR X enters the draft after two redshirt seasons, averages 35 catches, 600 yards and 5 TDs, however he's 6'4, 200# and runs a low 4.3.

Maybe he's graded as a 2nd/3rd round prospect, but during the predraft process imagine all we hear is how much he reminds scouts of RANDY MOSS.
Similar speed and explosion, leaping ability, hands, etc.

That prospect is going to benefit greatly from that comparison, even more if it's universally held among draft pundits.

Now imagine if that comparison for WR X by scouts is Ashley Lelie.

You're right, the Steve Young comparison wasn't the main reason MV was selected when he was, but it did IMO play a role.

I believe the exact same thing happened to Chris Long and Eli Manning, both first round prospects who were generally overdrafted because of obvious universal comparisons, in both their cases it was because of their bloodlines.

bigbluedefense
07-13-2011, 10:51 AM
Hmmmmm... No. That's so ignorant that my eyes hurt.

What part of his game translated to the NFL?

The horrible throwing motion? His inability to snap under center? His inability to look off defenders? Inability to make reads quickly? His lack of experience in a pro style offense?

Tebow is the ultimate project qb. You draft him bc you love his work ethic, his leadership, and you trust his ability to mold himself into an NFL qb with hard work and some time.

He was the definition of a project qb.

Roddoliver
07-13-2011, 08:26 PM
What part of his game translated to the NFL?


Do you really want the answer? His ability to play quarterback.

Philip Rivers, Aaron Rodgers and Colin Kaepernick are also examples of quarterbacks that had an unorthodox throwing motion when they were drafted. That does not mean they can't throw the ball.

Tebow's biggest flaw was/is his lack of experience under center. It is a different technique that he will have to get used to. The same goes to every other quarterback coming from a shotgun offense.

People just focus on his throwing motion, while his footwork and play action moves are the areas that need improvement for him to be efficient under center. But do you have any idea of how many snaps Peyton Manning takes from the shotgun?

And Tebow's football IQ is good. Josh McDaniels said Tebow was impressive drawing plays on the board and talking about his offense. McDaniels said Tebow had a lot of pre-snap responsabilities in that Florida offense, and many things were similar in the Broncos system.

Former GM Tony Softli (Rams) interviewed Tebow before the draft and said he is among the brightest quarterback prospects in the past 10 years when it came to working on the grease board and breaking down the game.

Again, he was drafted because he can play quarterback. Yes, he is a nice guy that works hard, loves football and makes plays with his athleticism, but many other quarterbacks have these qualities.

Every rookie quarterback is a project. Haven't you learned that at this point? You can draft "pro-style" guys like Matt Leinart, Brian Brohm and Jimmy Clausen. So what? Do they look like "pro-ready" quarterbacks to you? Every quarterback has to learn a lot of new things when they arrive in the NFL.

phlysac
07-13-2011, 08:37 PM
Philip Rivers, Aaron Rodgers and Colin Kaepernick are also examples of quarterbacks that had an unorthodox throwing motion when they were drafted. That does not mean they can't throw the ball.
Picking nits but the length of Tebow's release was questioned in regards to it taking to long for him to get rid of the ball and it was also a 3/4 delivery.

Rivers had an unorthodox angle of release but its quickness was never questioned.

Aaron Rodgers was questioned for how high (beside his facemask) he held the ball in his drop. His release was never in question, that I remember.

Kaepernick has a whip-like release that has been questioned, but it has also been reported that although it is unorthodox, is quite quick.

Roddoliver
07-13-2011, 08:49 PM
Tim Tebow and Steve Young have a very similar throwing motion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlqkiXyRBec

Tell me I'm wrong after watching the video.

Accuracy is another issue. But Tebow can keep his throwing motion if he learns how to be consistent with it and find his timing like Young did.

phlysac
07-13-2011, 09:01 PM
Tim Tebow and Steve Young have a very similar throwing motion.

Agree to disagree.

http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/9796/steveyoung.jpg

http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/2923/timtebow.jpg


To me (not that an awkward release prevents success because it doesn't) Tebow's release has been a combination of Byron Leftwich and Bernie Kosar.

LonghornsLegend
07-13-2011, 09:06 PM
Picking nits but the length of Tebow's release was questioned in regards to it taking to long for him to get rid of the ball and it was also a 3/4 delivery.

Rivers had an unorthodox angle of release but its quickness was never questioned.

Aaron Rodgers was questioned for how high (beside his facemask) he held the ball in his drop. His release was never in question, that I remember.

Kaepernick has a whip-like release that has been questioned, but it has also been reported that although it is unorthodox, is quite quick.


It was also the fact that Tebow was constantly dropping the ball below his waist when he was throwing the football which is a major problem in the NFL. There were legit concerns with that.

Roddoliver
07-13-2011, 09:16 PM
"I look at Tim Tebow's throwing motion and it doesn't look that much different than Steve Young's, if you put them next to each other. Steve Young would drop the ball when he threw it. And he's a Hall of Fame quarterback. To me it's more important to be natural than it is to shave a tenth of a second off the time it takes to get rid of the ball." - Jim Harbaugh

"I don't mess with a guy's throwing motion," said Harbaugh, who starred for five teams and led the Indianapolis Colts to the 1995 AFC Championship Game. "It's more mechanics. It's footwork. It's accuracy and decision-making."

phlysac
07-13-2011, 09:39 PM
"I look at Tim Tebow's throwing motion and it doesn't look that much different than Steve Young's, if you put them next to each other. Steve Young would drop the ball when he threw it. And he's a Hall of Fame quarterback. To me it's more important to be natural than it is to shave a tenth of a second off the time it takes to get rid of the ball." - Jim Harbaugh

"I don't mess with a guy's throwing motion," said Harbaugh, who starred for five teams and led the Indianapolis Colts to the 1995 AFC Championship Game. "It's more mechanics. It's footwork. It's accuracy and decision-making."

Agree that's Harbaugh's opinion. He's one of the school-of-thought that you don't mess with a QBs arm motion. There are those that disagree. Harbaugh is on record saying that he won't touch Colin Kaepernick's motion where others think that notion is ridiculous. However, Steve Young used to drop the ball BEFORE he threw it (similar to Tebow) however, their releases are disimilar.

This is what (I believe) similarities Harbaugh saw between Young and Tebow's throwing motion...

http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/3193/steveyoung3displayimage.jpg

http://img691.imageshack.us/img691/4564/timtebowpledge600.jpg