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View Full Version : Does Ngata,Wilfork, Hampton, make HOF?


dregolll
07-11-2011, 10:54 AM
Does anyone think these DTs have a chance at the HOF. Hampton has anchored the Steelers D for a decade now, and Ngata and Wilfork are very dominant players at there position. I saw that Ngata has been named to the All-Pro team the past 3 years. Do you guys think they have a chance of making the HOF?

stephenson86
07-11-2011, 10:58 AM
It depends are we talong about the NCAA HOF or the NFL HOF as we are in the draft section.

K Train
07-11-2011, 11:10 AM
no, i really doubt it.

34 NTs will rarely make it, and i think even as a 5 tech ngata will have a hard time, seymour is the only 5 tech i see getting in and even that is a bit of a reach....the 34 lineman just wont have the stats against the eligble 43 guys

FUNBUNCHER
07-11-2011, 11:14 AM
Ngata, maybe.

Wilfolk and Hampton, true 34 NTs?? I doubt it, if ever.

Nose tackles are like Centers to the HOF, and voters IMO don't value them all that much.

Think about it, what's the job description for a dominant 34 NT?? Some pass rush ability, the necessity to be blocked with two lineman at times, be a run stopper and keep blockers off the LBs.
Fine, but NTs aren't going to rack up double digit sacks and won't have 90+ tackles.

Tony Siragusa was a brilliant NT for the Ravens, would you consider him a HOF candidate??

No room for NTs in the HOF, especially since most consider them the least physically talented of all Dlineman.

phlysac
07-11-2011, 11:45 AM
Michael Carter was a 3-time Pro-Bowl starter and 3-time Super Bowl Champion at NT and he has never even sniffed a whisper of HOF talk.

Ravens1991
07-11-2011, 12:05 PM
Michael Carter was a 3-time Pro-Bowl starter and 3-time Super Bowl Champion at NT and he has never even sniffed a whisper of HOF talk.

Unless he made amazing plays in those superbowls or is a QB a guy with 3 pro bowls, 0 all pros should never sniff the hall.




Like other people said 34 lineman wont have the stats of 43 lineman. But with the increase of 34 teams I could see more and more 34 Dlineman get a lot of all pros and make all decade teams. Then maybe they start getting into the HOF.

phlysac
07-11-2011, 01:37 PM
Unless he made amazing plays in those superbowls or is a QB a guy with 3 pro bowls, 0 all pros should never sniff the hall.




Like other people said 34 lineman wont have the stats of 43 lineman. But with the increase of 34 teams I could see more and more 34 Dlineman get a lot of all pros and make all decade teams. Then maybe they start getting into the HOF.
Technically, Carter was voted an All-Pro in 1985, 1986, 1987, and 1988. However, I've never believed that these "popularity contests" have told the whole story in regards to a players' historical impact on the game.

Most Hall voters are intelligent enough to see beyond statistics. Many HOFers have stats that don't match up with other players throughout history. Lynn Swann is a great example. Big games and/or importance played on a dominant team can and has gotten votes. Will NTs or 3-4 D-Linemen make the Hall at the rate that "skill-position" players do? Of course not, but if voters can appreciate the historic impact of a player, their statistics shouldn't weigh into the equation. Unfortunately, I believe that these players "impact" goes largely unnoticed and will likely continue.

YAYareaRB
07-11-2011, 01:52 PM
they gotta have crazy stats or film or records because thats pretty much the only things that will get you considered.

Ness
07-11-2011, 02:13 PM
Technically, Carter was voted an All-Pro in 1985, 1986, 1987, and 1988. However, I've never believed that these "popularity contests" have told the whole story in regards to a players' historical impact on the game.

Most Hall voters are intelligent enough to see beyond statistics. Many HOFers have stats that don't match up with other players throughout history. Lynn Swann is a great example. Big games and/or importance played on a dominant team can and has gotten votes. Will NTs or 3-4 D-Linemen make the Hall at the rate that "skill-position" players do? Of course not, but if voters can appreciate the historic impact of a player, their statistics shouldn't weigh into the equation. Unfortunately, I believe that these players "impact" goes largely unnoticed and will likely continue.

I think you are giving the HOF voters too much credit. That is why there are certain positions with bias and other positions that never get in. Kind of ticks me off. I remember one guy appearing on one of those NFL Top Ten list shows on NFL Network and talking a little bit about the way he voted and why...the guy sounded like he shouldn't have the privilege of voting.

ElectricEye
07-11-2011, 02:14 PM
I think all of them make it, actually. Let me start by saying with Ngata we're talking about something completely different. He's not a true NT.

For Hampton and Wilfork; given that they were easily some of the most important players in a scheme that dominated the Post-Season, I can't see them not getting the distinction they deserve. People look beyond the stats for guys like NT's now a days. Lot's of understanding about how important the role they play is, even if it doesn't show up in the box score. Lot's of articles written about that.

As far as that "Oh NT's are the center of the defensive line" thing goes; with all due respect it's complete crap. Center is the least valuable position on an offensive line. You can find a guy you can just get by with at that position. Teams know that too, generally. Very rarely do you see a big time talent play that position simply because you bring so much more value to the table playing any other position on the line if you can do it. The opposite is true of NT's. They're extremely hard to find, first off. The amount of teams switching the 3-4 the past few years has really surprised the crap out of me for that reason alone. You simply can't find enough of them who are more than glorified sumo wrestlers to fill that kind of need. That's why you see guys like Terrence Cody getting overdrafted and guys like Phil Taylor shooting up draft boards with even the slightest display of potential.

So yeah, I really think the level of awareness about the nature of the position has changed big time these days. The talent level has also gone up significantly, and Hampton and Wilfork are two prime examples of that.

FUNBUNCHER
07-11-2011, 02:52 PM
I agree that finding a competent Center is easier than finding a decent NT, but I wouldn't really describe them as the 'least valuable' position on the Oline.

If your Center can't handle a bullrush or pick up blitzers with enough quickness to give a decent pass pro look, your offense is going to stall before it ever gets started.

I'm glad someone brought up Michael Carter. IMO he was one of the true defensive superstars on those dominant 49ers teams.

In my mind, he's a HOFer or should be one day, but he's already 51 years old and you NEVER hear his name mentioned as a potential Canton inductee.

ElectricEye
07-11-2011, 02:55 PM
I agree that finding a competent Center is easier than finding a decent NT, but I wouldn't really describe them as the 'least valuable' position on the Oline.

What is then? Guard? Certainly not either of the tackles. You need the least physical skill and athletic ability to play center, in comparison to the other positions(probably goes LT, RT, G, C). That's the least valuable. Doesn't mean it isn't important, but give me an equal player at any one of those positions before you give me the center, provided that they know the schemes and blocking assignments well. Contracts and draft position agree with me too, as a rule.

But anyway, that's beside the point. Point is that NT's bring an IMMENSE amount of value to the table on a 3-4 defense. History dictates that if you don't have one, you don't have a solid foundation on that side of the ball if you're going to run that scheme. It took awhile for teams to get scouting and developing NT's down(a lot of the time a teams NT used to just be the biggest defensive linemen on the team, no kind of specialization or discretion really). That doesn't cut it these days and Wilfork and Hampton are two prime examples of that. The value they bring over a replacement player is just too large to ignore.

Ravens1991
07-11-2011, 03:08 PM
Technically, Carter was voted an All-Pro in 1985, 1986, 1987, and 1988. However, I've never believed that these "popularity contests" have told the whole story in regards to a players' historical impact on the game.

Most Hall voters are intelligent enough to see beyond statistics. Many HOFers have stats that don't match up with other players throughout history. Lynn Swann is a great example. Big games and/or importance played on a dominant team can and has gotten votes. Will NTs or 3-4 D-Linemen make the Hall at the rate that "skill-position" players do? Of course not, but if voters can appreciate the historic impact of a player, their statistics shouldn't weigh into the equation. Unfortunately, I believe that these players "impact" goes largely unnoticed and will likely continue.

Oh IDK that. But that does hurt guys like Hampton,Wilfork and Ngata chances

phlysac
07-11-2011, 05:02 PM
I think you are giving the HOF voters too much credit. That is why there are certain positions with bias and other positions that never get in. Kind of ticks me off. I remember one guy appearing on one of those NFL Top Ten list shows on NFL Network and talking a little bit about the way he voted and why...the guy sounded like he shouldn't have the privilege of voting.

No, I agree with you. My point is that most are intelligent enough to see beyond the statistics but that they refuse to do so in most cases.

Brothgar
07-11-2011, 05:10 PM
If I were a HOF voter Casey Hampton wouldn't be a first ballot but would make it eventually. If you make the Steelers all time team on Defense you should instantly get consideration. Ngata and wilfork need more great years in the league before I give them any consideration.

bucfan12
07-11-2011, 05:41 PM
Idk about Casey Hampton. He's been a very good player, but I would never classify him as HOF type.

Ngata is still young, but he's on his way. He is a truely dominant player at his position, but I think he'd make more of an impact if he were a 4-3 DT.

fenikz
07-11-2011, 05:45 PM
Hampton no, Wilfork yes, Ngata maybe(yes assuming something terrible doesn't happen to him)

LonghornsLegend
07-11-2011, 08:40 PM
Hampton has always been more impressive to me then Wilfork, maybe I'm wrong in that assumption but while Wilfork has been amazing Hampton has been the anchor to that defense being so good. Yes I know about Aaron Smith, but if you took away Casey Hampton running on the Steelers would be completely different. Being that he rarely misses a game it's hard to really tell for sure, but I always take note to watch him.


I don't think Wilfork is far off what so ever, very close, but to me Hampton has always been mor dominant.


Ngata is a different beast. He needs more years playing at this level to say for sure or not, but his versatility is going to give him extra bonus points when his career is over and people look back on it. I want to see him play at this level for another 4 years before I can say strongly 1 way or another.

ElectricEye
07-11-2011, 08:57 PM
Hampton has always been more impressive to me then Wilfork, maybe I'm wrong in that assumption but while Wilfork has been amazing Hampton has been the anchor to that defense being so good. Yes I know about Aaron Smith, but if you took away Casey Hampton running on the Steelers would be completely different. Being that he rarely misses a game it's hard to really tell for sure, but I always take note to watch him.


I don't think Wilfork is far off what so ever, very close, but to me Hampton has always been mor dominant.

I saw a lot of both of them this year. I'm a Patriots fan, so I'm obviously bias, but I'll try to be objective as possible about this;

Wilfork is far and away the better player right now. Hampton has had a great career and been extremely impressive throughout, but Wilfork is in his prime right now. Now, everything being even, I'll still take Wilfork, but it really comes down to a pick your poison type of thing.

Casey Hampton is more of a stay at home and play the gaps right kind of guy and he does that extremely well. In terms of establishing consistent push and leverage, he's been the best in the game. Really hard to block with how strong he is and how low to the ground he is. Story goes that he's never been pancaked EVER, and I absolutely believe it based on what I've seen.

Wilfork is a gifted athlete for a man his size. Moves like a dancing bear. He's a gap discipline guy, don't get me wrong, but he moves laterally extremely well, which allowed him to play basically everywhere on the defensive line. He may not generate a ton of sacks, but his burst and acceleration once getting by blocking is second only to BJ Raji . You used to be able to make the argument that he was just another cog in the machine with Richard Seymour and a healthy Ty Warren, but he actually got even better once Seymour departed and had his best season of all this past year with Warren hurt. Something he really doesn't get enough credit for is the condition he's been in the past few years. Despite looking lumpier than ever, he played more snaps than just about anyone on the defense not named Devin McCourty this year. He had one game where he went 70+ and was a factor on every single one of them.

So basically; Hampton has an advantage as a pure anchoring type, but Wilfork is a guy who effects the game in more ways and is still exceptionally gifted anchor. I actually think he still has a little bit to prove. Needs at least two more productive years before he's a sure thing in terms of being deserving, but the reputation is established.

boknows34
07-12-2011, 03:09 AM
Ngata is on the right path and has the best long-term chance of the 3 imo. He has 3 consecutive All-Pro selections and I expect many more as he's only 27 and currently the best DL in the NFL. Wilfork also has 3 All-Pros and turns 30 this season. Hampton has been to 5 Pro Bowls but never been named an All-Pro which will hurt him. Its tough for the 3-4 NTs to get All-Pro recognition as the 4 spots (2 1st team and 2 2nd team) usually go to 4-3 DTs. Its the same problem for 4-3 OLBs getting recognition.

Ngata and Suh should be the consensus All-Pro DTs for the next 5 years. In fact Suh will be All-Pro for the next decade. Kevin Williams and Richard Seymour have the best HOF chance of all current defensive tackles.

K Train
07-12-2011, 08:18 AM
I saw a lot of both of them this year. I'm a Patriots fan, so I'm obviously bias, but I'll try to be objective as possible about this;

Wilfork is far and away the better player right now. Hampton has had a great career and been extremely impressive throughout, but Wilfork is in his prime right now. Now, everything being even, I'll still take Wilfork, but it really comes down to a pick your poison type of thing.

Casey Hampton is more of a stay at home and play the gaps right kind of guy and he does that extremely well. In terms of establishing consistent push and leverage, he's been the best in the game. Really hard to block with how strong he is and how low to the ground he is. Story goes that he's never been pancaked EVER, and I absolutely believe it based on what I've seen.

Wilfork is a gifted athlete for a man his size. Moves like a dancing bear. He's a gap discipline guy, don't get me wrong, but he moves laterally extremely well, which allowed him to play basically everywhere on the defensive line. He may not generate a ton of sacks, but his burst and acceleration once getting by blocking is second only to BJ Raji . You used to be able to make the argument that he was just another cog in the machine with Richard Seymour and a healthy Ty Warren, but he actually got even better once Seymour departed and had his best season of all this past year with Warren hurt. Something he really doesn't get enough credit for is the condition he's been in the past few years. Despite looking lumpier than ever, he played more snaps than just about anyone on the defense not named Devin McCourty this year. He had one game where he went 70+ and was a factor on every single one of them.

So basically; Hampton has an advantage as a pure anchoring type, but Wilfork is a guy who effects the game in more ways and is still exceptionally gifted anchor. I actually think he still has a little bit to prove. Needs at least two more productive years before he's a sure thing in terms of being deserving, but the reputation is established.

of course wilfork is the better player right now, casey is a 1, possibly 2 down player at this point....after fighting his weight though he had a late career surge, pretty impressive hes been able to last this long.

suh and ngata are clearly the top 2 right now as far as DTs go, seymour is a probable hall of famer, imagine if haynesworth gave a ****?

stlouisfan37
07-12-2011, 10:03 PM
I believe that some of these great nose tackles will make the HOF, but that it will require the right scenario. Essentially, one player will break in, which will give the value of the position credibility, and then others will follow.

The tight end position is a perfect example. For the longest time there were only a couple of them in the Hall, but when players started racking up great offensive stats, their value became undeniable. There are now 8 in the Hall, with more on the way. Tony Gonzalez is a first ballot shoo-in, and Antonio Gates and Jason Witten will likely make it if they continue on the same career path, just to name a few.

There are currently no modern era nose tackles in the Hall of Fame.

Michael Carter is an interesting player to bring up. Those 49er defenses were really good, and they were in the top 5 against the run almost every year that he played. I think he has two things going against him, however. First off, he only had a 9 year career. Second, those San Francisco teams were so good and so innovative offensively that their defenses were always underrated. I remember John Madden talking about it during broadcasts often.

I think the following need to happen in order for one of these nose tackles to get in the HOF.

1) He needs to play a minimum of 12 seasons and be a durable player throughout his career.

2) He needs to go to at least 5 Pro Bowls and be All-Pro multiple times.

3) He needs to have at least 20 career sacks.

4) His team needs to build a dynasty, and it needs to be a team that is known for its defense, especially against the run.




At this point I would say that Hampton has met all of those criteria except for the sack totals. 9 career sacks isn't all that impressive. He also hasn't been named All-Pro, but has 5 Pro Bowls. The fact that the Steelers have been in the top 3 in the league against the run in 9 of his ten seasons says a hell of a lot about him. I don't know if that has ever been done before.

Ngata will likely suffer due to his team's lack of success, although I think Baltimore is a contender year after year and could have more rings in their future. He already has 12 sacks, 2 Pro Bowls and an All-Pro, and his team has the necessary reputation. The Ravens are at the top of the league in run defense perennially, which helps him.

Wilfork would suffer from the fact that New England is not among the top teams in the league against the run every year. They are good against the run, but not dominant. Additionally, they have only won one Super Bowl in his career, and he was a rookie and did not start. He has 3 Pro Bowls.

One NT that I have thought deserved some consideration in the past, but many have never heard of, was Joe Nash of the Seahwks. He had a great 15 year career, and played the first 8 years as a nose before the Hawks switched to a 4-3. During those 8 years he amassed 38.5 sacks, but went unnoticed due to being flanked by Jacob Green and Jeff Bryant. He finished his career with 47.5 sacks and over 700 tackles, and even scored a fat guy touchdown.