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jack1077
07-13-2011, 06:21 PM
So, if we put Megatron on a different team, say the pats, colts, packers etc. Where would he rank in terms of best wr? I think he might be no.1 if he had Peyton or Brady throwing to him...

AntoinCD
07-13-2011, 06:25 PM
It is an interesting question but the consensus top 2 WRs(AJ and Fitz) dont have top flight QBs either. Schaub is a good starter in Houston but wont be mistaken for one of the top guys and bar two years with Warner Fitzgerald has had a horrible situation in Arizona.

IMO on a level playing field right now I would still have Andre as the top guy but Calvin would be very close with Fitz rounding out the top 3

bigbluedefense
07-13-2011, 07:18 PM
Calvin is a beast and all, but he still should be better than he is. He needs to a better job of route running.

That's his biggest flaw right now, route running. He's still top 5, arguably top 3, but until he works on his route running, he won't be #1.

cmarq83
07-13-2011, 07:44 PM
It really depends on the team and QB he would go to. I feel like an ideal situation would be if you swapped him for DeSean Jackson. With Mike Vick's cannon for an arm, and ability to scramble coverage downfield would break down enough to make him absolutely lethal. He would be allowed to run fly's, corners, and posts and simply dominate in a way we haven't seen before. However, I think in a timing offense like the Pats run with Brady he'd be awesome in the red zone, but would have a much harder time fitting in on an every down basis. That said I think he'd still be a 70 1200 12 kind of guy I just see him as a 70 1500 16 kind of guy in Philly.

LonghornsLegend
07-13-2011, 08:28 PM
Calvin is a beast and all, but he still should be better than he is. He needs to a better job of route running.

That's his biggest flaw right now, route running. He's still top 5, arguably top 3, but until he works on his route running, he won't be #1.


Thing is, he's still growing as a player like alot of young WR's go through. Scary thing is he can post ridiculous numbers like he did in his 2nd season with crap at QB. He's not even close to having his best seasons as a pro, because when he does he'll be a constant 100 catch guy.


I also have never seen anything to tell me AJ is better then Fitz. When he had a QB he was about to start tearing DC's a new one every week and then Warner retires. He's still the top WR in the league right now, and put him in the playoffs again please so he can take over.

FUNBUNCHER
07-13-2011, 08:39 PM
If Stafford can stay healthy for 14+ games, CJ is going to shock people this year.

EricCartmann
07-14-2011, 01:17 AM
Megatron has great genes.

I know you say everyone is capable of having the speed, vertical, and 10" fingers of Megatron, but I am going to have to disagree.

Please don't give me negative points likes you have been doing when I diagree with you.

FUNBUNCHER
07-14-2011, 03:50 AM
Megatron has great genes.

I know you say everyone is capable of having the speed, vertical, and 10" fingers of Megatron, but I am going to have to disagree.

Please don't give me negative points likes you have been doing when I diagree with you.

WTF are you talking about??
I've never negged ANYONE on SWDC and have even suggested to Scott that function be removed.

Don't punk out on me, Eric. Tell the truth.

If you weren't talking directly to me, be clear next time to whom you're referencing.


About your point on Megatron, physically he's a one of kind guy no question. But I promise you there are basketball athletes in HS, college and the NBA with similar physical attributes who simply have the skillset and inclination to play another sport besides football.

Imagine if a guy like the Bulls PG Derrick Rose grew up wanting to be Jerry Rice instead of Michael Jordan.

descendency
07-14-2011, 05:38 AM
He'd be #1. CJ has Randy Moss type talent and pairing him with an all time great QB in Brady (or Manning, or Phillip Rivers, or Drew Brees, or Aaron Rodgers...) would just be unfair to the rest of the league.

K Train
07-14-2011, 08:13 AM
i think he would be number one and being putting up heroic and damn near legendary numbers.

<---calvin johnson fanboy here though

A Perfect Score
07-14-2011, 09:47 AM
I love CJ, but he isn't the magnificent receiver he's being made out to be. Magnificent athlete yes, magnificent receiver no. He still has alot to learn about the subtleties and intricacies of playing WR and you can see it in his game when you watch him. He's always going to be a long strider, and because he's such a long athlete he occasionally has trouble balling up and exploding out of his breaks. Like BBD said, he does need to work on his route running and while I applaud what he's done in Detroit with little to no help around him, I think he's getting by on a hell of a lot of athleticism at this point. It helps that he's just bigger, faster and stronger then everyone else, but if he actually learned to play WR the way its been played by some of the greats (Im thinking Torrey Holt here...that guy knew how to play WR), he could be unstoppable.

K Train
07-14-2011, 09:55 AM
thats pretty much what im looking forward to, watching him grow as a reciever...if stafford stays healthy and continues to improve defenses might not have an answer for that duo in the near future

EricCartmann
07-14-2011, 10:34 AM
WTF are you talking about??
I've never negged ANYONE on SWDC and have even suggested to Scott that function be removed.

Don't punk out on me, Eric. Tell the truth.

If you weren't talking directly to me, be clear next time to whom you're referencing.


About your point on Megatron, physically he's a one of kind guy no question. But I promise you there are basketball athletes in HS, college and the NBA with similar physical attributes who simply have the skillset and inclination to play another sport besides football.

Imagine if a guy like the Bulls PG Derrick Rose grew up wanting to be Jerry Rice instead of Michael Jordan.


What is punking out and how did I do it?

Derrick Rose has great genes too, and so does Jamarcus Russel and Beanie Wells. Wells and Russel are not considered success stories in the NFL, but they did play at a high level in Division-1A Football, which you need good genes to do.

BTW: I was not responding to you, I was responding to the original poster. You never gave me negative points before. Also what's wrong with the point system? LOL

bigbluedefense
07-14-2011, 10:55 AM
Thing is, he's still growing as a player like alot of young WR's go through. Scary thing is he can post ridiculous numbers like he did in his 2nd season with crap at QB. He's not even close to having his best seasons as a pro, because when he does he'll be a constant 100 catch guy.


I also have never seen anything to tell me AJ is better then Fitz. When he had a QB he was about to start tearing DC's a new one every week and then Warner retires. He's still the top WR in the league right now, and put him in the playoffs again please so he can take over.

I agree with the notion that Fitz is better than Johnson.

I also think Randy Moss is going to be back in a big way this year. He's going to tear it up again. I really hope the Giants get him, I always wanted Moss to be a Giant.

He's my favorite offensive player of all time.

EricCartmann
07-14-2011, 01:23 PM
I agree with the notion that Fitz is better than Johnson.

I also think Randy Moss is going to be back in a big way this year. He's going to tear it up again. I really hope the Giants get him, I always wanted Moss to be a Giant.

He's my favorite offensive player of all time.


I think Moss is the best receiver ever. He was an absolute monster and unstoppable for about a 5 year span. I don't know of any receiver that had a better 5 year run. Moss scared the beegeezus out of me. I can't think of one receiver that I feared more than Moss.

bigbluedefense
07-14-2011, 01:26 PM
I think Moss is the best receiver ever. He was an absolute monster and unstoppable for about a 5 year span. I don't know of any receiver that had a better 5 year run. Moss scared the beegeezus out of me. I can't think of one receiver that I feared more than Moss.

2nd greatest to me. Maybe 3rd if you consider Don Hutson the 2nd. You gotta respect Rice, he was the GOAT.

But Moss is definitely 2nd or 3rd in my eyes. I know a lot of people knock him for his off years (and rightfully so), but when he's on, I don't know if I ever saw a scarier WR ever.

You're right in a sense that Moss was the most feared WR of all time. Just look at the coverages he saw. I never seen any WR ever get the treatment by DCs that Moss got. And that includes Jerry Rice.

AntoinCD
07-14-2011, 03:10 PM
2nd greatest to me. Maybe 3rd if you consider Don Hutson the 2nd. You gotta respect Rice, he was the GOAT.

But Moss is definitely 2nd or 3rd in my eyes. I know a lot of people knock him for his off years (and rightfully so), but when he's on, I don't know if I ever saw a scarier WR ever.

You're right in a sense that Moss was the most feared WR of all time. Just look at the coverages he saw. I never seen any WR ever get the treatment by DCs that Moss got. And that includes Jerry Rice.

For me, Moss is the most talented WR of all time and when he was at his best(think early Vikings career, 2007 in NE) he was totally unstoppable, however most talented is not necessarily the best. I have to agree that Rice is the GOAT and probably always will be.

I also have to agree with the posters who say Calvin has a lot to learn about the WR position. Take the Patriots game this year when McCourty picked off a pass intended for him. He needs to do a better job shielding defenders from the ball on shorter/intermediate routes. For someone his size he doesn't necessarily always play up to his physical attributes. McCourty simply undercut him and outfought him for the ball. That really shouldn't happen and is not something that would happen to, in particular, Larry Fitzgerald.

wicket
07-14-2011, 03:14 PM
I think the difference between rice and the next wideout is bigger than the difference between the #1 and #2 in any other position.

stlouisfan37
07-14-2011, 03:16 PM
I think Moss is the best receiver ever. He was an absolute monster and unstoppable for about a 5 year span. I don't know of any receiver that had a better 5 year run. Moss scared the beegeezus out of me. I can't think of one receiver that I feared more than Moss.

Moss had a 5-year run from 1999-2003 in which he had 456 receptions for 7,062 yards and 64 touchdowns. It was definitely a great body of work and, you are correct; he was the most feared receiver in the game at that time. He followed that up later in his career with a 5-year run from 2005-2009 with 352/5,323/58. Definitely a fantastic career and probably a Hall of Famer despite his quirkiness.

In comparison, Jerry Rice had a 5-year run from 1986-1990 in which he totalled 392 receptions for 6,939 and 77 tds. He immediately followed that with another 5-year run, from 1991-1995 with 496/7,257/67 and had a third 5-year run from 1998-2002 with 419/5,142/37.

In all, Moss would need to haul in roughly 600 receptions for 8,000 yards and 50 scores to eclipse Rice's marks. Your boy was really good, but not the GOAT.

HeavyLeggedWaistBender
07-14-2011, 03:26 PM
Jay Cutler would put Megatron in the Hall of Fame.

AntoinCD
07-14-2011, 03:44 PM
Moss had a 5-year run from 1999-2003 in which he had 456 receptions for 7,062 yards and 64 touchdowns. It was definitely a great body of work and, you are correct; he was the most feared receiver in the game at that time. He followed that up later in his career with a 5-year run from 2005-2009 with 352/5,323/58. Definitely a fantastic career and probably a Hall of Famer despite his quirkiness.

In comparison, Jerry Rice had a 5-year run from 1986-1990 in which he totalled 392 receptions for 6,939 and 77 tds. He immediately followed that with another 5-year run, from 1991-1995 with 496/7,257/67 and had a third 5-year run from 1998-2002 with 419/5,142/37.

In all, Moss would need to haul in roughly 600 receptions for 8,000 yards and 50 scores to eclipse Rice's marks. Your boy was really good, but not the GOAT.

I do think longevity and numbers should be factored into the thinking of who is the best of all time but is not anywhere near the deciding factor. Rice is the GOAT because he was the best WR in his time and had consistency throughout his career. He also had years where he was scarily dominant. The thing that stopped Moss from mounting a serious challenge to Rice is the mental part of it. Randy Moss's second 5 year span you mentioned averages out at over 70 receptions, 1000 yards and 11 TDs a season, numbers virtually any WR would be happy with. However when you take into account the years in Oakland you have to think how much better it could have been if he had his head on straight.

As I mentioned, I think Moss is the most talented WR of all time and had the potential to be the greatest. He was an integral part of two teams that have had historic offenses, thanks in large part to him. I also think that no WR has changed the game as much as Randy Moss did. Not even Jerry Rice dictated the coverage schemes that Moss did. But you just can't help but remember too many awful years of him dogging it and ruining teams. Part of what makes a player great is making even mediocre teams great. Moss didn't do that in Oakland. In fact he done the opposite.

I also think you can remove the word probably from the line "probably a Hall of Famer despite his quirkiness" and replace it with definitely. Randy Moss is, and should be, a first ballot hall of famer.

bigbluedefense
07-14-2011, 03:55 PM
To be fair to Moss, Rice had Montana and Steve Young.

Moss for most of his career had mediocre qbs throwing him the ball. The first year he has Tom Brady (later in his career btw) he catches 22 TDs.

Just imagine what he could have done in his prime years with a Brady at qb.

His inconsistent effort is why he's probably #2 or 3 all time. If he had Rice's work ethic, he probably would have been #1.

But he didn't. And wouldve couldve shouldves don't count. So he's #2.

K Train
07-14-2011, 04:00 PM
calvin has rices dedication and work ethic, he has randy moss speed and not quite as good hands but still very good and he has TOs build with plaxico burress height....if he could get the QB play he could put up unreal numbers, like madden numbers.

if stafford ever ends up as good as i think he is, that offense is gonna be scary good with calvin leading the way

FUNBUNCHER
07-14-2011, 04:09 PM
I L-O-V-E Jerry Rice, but I'm 50/50 about who was the more dominant WR when they were at the top of their game.

I've seen safeties cheap shot the hell out of Rice, trying to break bones, get inside his head. As a football player he was so mentally tough.

But Moss, when he was really into the game like he was during the Pats undefeated regular season, it was toss and catch all day long and there was nothing an opposing D could do about it.

Supposedly Randy is working out like a beast this offseason and vows to end his career on a tear.

If he really is committed to the game for the next 2-5 years, I wonder where he signs in 2011.
Cutler would love him IMO. So would Big Ben.

Megatron is going to benefit greatly from Titus Young in the slot or in tight.

If Young and company can eliminate some of the bracket coverage used against CJ, one on one against any DB with the ball thrown out in front of him, Megraton should be open.

bigbluedefense
07-14-2011, 04:10 PM
I know this sounds weird, but for a physical freak, Calvin doesn't play tough.

He should be so much more physical than he is. He hasn't used his body to it's full potential yet, it's almost like he's a finesse WR in a TE body.

Once he starts to play tough and beat guys up underneath, and use that body to beat defenders to the spot, then he can become so much more than he is.

He needs to play with that mentality that Fitz and Boldin play with. Use that body. Be physical.

He's not on their level of physicality, and he should be and some.

AntoinCD
07-14-2011, 04:12 PM
calvin has rices dedication and work ethic, he has randy moss speed and not quite as good hands but still very good and he has TOs build with plaxico burress height....if he could get the QB play he could put up unreal numbers, like madden numbers.

if stafford ever ends up as good as i think he is, that offense is gonna be scary good with calvin leading the way

I would disagree that he has Moss' speed and I wouldn't be able to compare his work ethic to Rice's but I agree that he has an absolutely ideal blend of physical and mental attributes to be an all time great. Despite the QB play though he needs to work on the nuances of the game. He needs to use his body more, learn how to set DBs up more in his routes etc. The little things that Rice done so well, that Fitz does now. He's still young and if Stafford can stay healthy then maybe we will see more, however I don't think he will all of a sudden turn into this unseen beast that a lot of people do.

Brodeur
07-14-2011, 04:21 PM
I agree with the notion that Fitz is better than Johnson.

I also think Randy Moss is going to be back in a big way this year. He's going to tear it up again. I really hope the Giants get him, I always wanted Moss to be a Giant.

He's my favorite offensive player of all time.

What makes you think that Moss will tear it up again exactly? Playing like garbage on THREE different teams isn't enough to cast him off?

bigbluedefense
07-14-2011, 04:40 PM
I would disagree that he has Moss' speed and I wouldn't be able to compare his work ethic to Rice's but I agree that he has an absolutely ideal blend of physical and mental attributes to be an all time great. Despite the QB play though he needs to work on the nuances of the game. He needs to use his body more, learn how to set DBs up more in his routes etc. The little things that Rice done so well, that Fitz does now. He's still young and if Stafford can stay healthy then maybe we will see more, however I don't think he will all of a sudden turn into this unseen beast that a lot of people do.

Question: Who do you think is better, Fitz or AJ?

Longhornlegends mentioned earlier in this thread his reasons for Fitz being better, and I agree with him.

Seeing that you and me agree on Megatron, I'm curious to hear your take on Fitz vs AJ.

bigbluedefense
07-14-2011, 04:42 PM
What makes you think that Moss will tear it up again exactly? Playing like garbage on THREE different teams isn't enough to cast him off?

I remember when he was traded from Oakland, everyone said the same thing.

Moss didn't give a damn. You saw the idontgiveadamn Moss.

Now he's hungry again. We're going to see the beast Moss this season. I know one thing, I'm drafting him in FF. That's for sure.

bigbluedefense
07-14-2011, 04:44 PM
I just hope he doesn't go to the Eagles. My biggest fear this offseason is if Moss and Reggie Bush go to the Eagles.

If that happens they'll have the most explosive offense ever put together.

It's totally doable for them too. Both will come relatively cheap. Bush sucks as a runner, but as a scat in that offense with all that speed on the field, he might become a player catching out of the backfield.

That's a scary thought. That offense with Moss and Bush.

AntoinCD
07-14-2011, 05:02 PM
Question: Who do you think is better, Fitz or AJ?

Longhornlegends mentioned earlier in this thread his reasons for Fitz being better, and I agree with him.

Seeing that you and me agree on Megatron, I'm curious to hear your take on Fitz vs AJ.

Personally I like AJ slightly better but I wouldn't argue against Fitz either. I think Fitz has better hands and body control and his knowledge of the position is unmatched. He knows how to set his routes up to take advantage of defensive backs. His postseason performance a few years ago was quite simply breath taken.

The reason I like AJ more is because I think he is more of a sudden athlete and is better with the ball in his hands. He needs to become more productive in the red zone. That is a huge point against him.

Fitz is more of a jump ball WR whereas AJ offers way more in terms of YAC. He is like a truck in the open field and he can punish defenders.

Plus he knocked the **** out of Cortland Finnegan so that has to go in his favour lol

Just a personal preference and as I said I can't really argue if people like Fitz more

Raiderz4Life
07-14-2011, 05:04 PM
Breaks my heart every time ppl talk about CJ and Fitz. I wanted both for Oak in their respective drafts...but they didn't happen. :*(

yo123
07-14-2011, 05:09 PM
I just hope he doesn't go to the Eagles. My biggest fear this offseason is if Moss and Reggie Bush go to the Eagles.

If that happens they'll have the most explosive offense ever put together.

It's totally doable for them too. Both will come relatively cheap. Bush sucks as a runner, but as a scat in that offense with all that speed on the field, he might become a player catching out of the backfield.

That's a scary thought. That offense with Moss and Bush.

I still don't understand this myth that Reggie Bush is an explosive player.

bigbluedefense
07-14-2011, 05:11 PM
I flip flop with Fitz and AJ. Right now I'm in a Fitz mood. AJ's lack of TDs hurts him in my eyes.

Other than that, its so hard to argue. But that run that Fitz had during their SB year was absolutely amazing.

bigbluedefense
07-14-2011, 05:13 PM
I still don't understand this myth that Reggie Bush is an explosive player.

He's explosive. But he can't run inside, and he can't break tackles. So you negate his speed by putting a CB on him. You don't have to worry about lightening the box with an extra CB on the field bc Lord knows Reggie can't run anyway, plus since he can't break tackles you don't have to worry about him trucking a CB.

So his explosiveness is neutralized by a CB who is just as fast.

But in that offense he might find a nitch just bc the field would be so spread out to account for everyone else's speed, especially if they got Moss too.

AntoinCD
07-14-2011, 05:18 PM
He's explosive. But he can't run inside, and he can't break tackles. So you negate his speed by putting a CB on him. You don't have to worry about lightening the box with an extra CB on the field bc Lord knows Reggie can't run anyway, plus since he can't break tackles you don't have to worry about him trucking a CB.

So his explosiveness is neutralized by a CB who is just as fast.

But in that offense he might find a nitch just bc the field would be so spread out to account for everyone else's speed, especially if they got Moss too.

Yeah if you need an example of his explosveness you just have to look at the wheel route he took to the house in the NFC Championship game against the Bears when he was isolated against Brian Urlacher. One of the quicker and better coverage LBs in the league got absolutely destroyed en route to a huge TD reception that day.

I dont think the Saints use Bush in the right way. Instead of getting him in space against CBs and safeties etc they should do more with trying to get him the ball in the middle of the field. They should flex him out more and use him on crossing routes with a TE or another WR going to opposite way to try and create a natural pick and get him that yard to get by LBs.

Brodeur
07-14-2011, 05:19 PM
I remember when he was traded from Oakland, everyone said the same thing.

Moss didn't give a damn. You saw the idontgiveadamn Moss.

Now he's hungry again. We're going to see the beast Moss this season. I know one thing, I'm drafting him in FF. That's for sure.

How do we know if he's hungry again? IT WAS THREE TEAMS, THREE. He failed on THREE teams.

bigbluedefense
07-14-2011, 05:26 PM
How do we know if he's hungry again? IT WAS THREE TEAMS, THREE. He failed on THREE teams.

Did he though? He never got a fair chance in Minnesota, and Chilly got rid of him against the wishes of the team and management.

Tennesee, at that point they were a train wreck who quit on their coach too.

And he wasn't horrible in NE, he just wasn't Moss.

It was just a bad year for him. Inexcusable, I won't say he was right for packing it in, but he was put in a tough situation too. It's not easy trying to learn 3 different offenses in that time span.

bigbluedefense
07-14-2011, 05:27 PM
Yeah if you need an example of his explosveness you just have to look at the wheel route he took to the house in the NFC Championship game against the Bears when he was isolated against Brian Urlacher. One of the quicker and better coverage LBs in the league got absolutely destroyed en route to a huge TD reception that day.

I dont think the Saints use Bush in the right way. Instead of getting him in space against CBs and safeties etc they should do more with trying to get him the ball in the middle of the field. They should flex him out more and use him on crossing routes with a TE or another WR going to opposite way to try and create a natural pick and get him that yard to get by LBs.

I dunno, I think Payton tried, but Reggie just couldn't put it together. If anyone can salvage his career though, it would be Andy Reid.

yo123
07-14-2011, 05:35 PM
He's explosive. But he can't run inside, and he can't break tackles. So you negate his speed by putting a CB on him. You don't have to worry about lightening the box with an extra CB on the field bc Lord knows Reggie can't run anyway, plus since he can't break tackles you don't have to worry about him trucking a CB.

So his explosiveness is neutralized by a CB who is just as fast.

But in that offense he might find a nitch just bc the field would be so spread out to account for everyone else's speed, especially if they got Moss too.

Well it's not like Reggie is the only RB that teams have thought to use a CB against. I just think to be classified as explosive you need to consistently make big plays, I can't find the numbers but I'm pretty sure he's consistently towards the bottom of the league in 20+ yard runs, and his 7.3 career yards per catch is also pretty pedestrian.

descendency
07-14-2011, 05:35 PM
2nd greatest to me. Maybe 3rd if you consider Don Hutson the 2nd. You gotta respect Rice, he was the GOAT.

Jerry Rice caught balls from Steve Young and Joe Montana, both in the NFL Hall of Fame.

Randy Moss's QBs (save Tom Brady) are not even in their high school hall of fames.

yo123
07-14-2011, 05:39 PM
Jerry Rice caught balls from Steve Young and Joe Montana, both in the NFL Hall of Fame.

Randy Moss's QBs (save Tom Brady) are not even in their high school hall of fames.


Daunte Culpepper in his good years was outstanding. Randall Cunningham had a great year Moss' rookie year as well, that offense was the highest scoring of all time until the Patriots broke the record.

Raiderz4Life
07-14-2011, 05:42 PM
Daunte Culpepper in his good years was outstanding.

Agreed. Daunte wasnt bad at all. He sucked towards the end of his career but he and Moss were beastly in Minny.

Brodeur
07-14-2011, 05:43 PM
Jerry Rice caught balls from Steve Young and Joe Montana, both in the NFL Hall of Fame.

Randy Moss's QBs (save Tom Brady) are not even in their high school hall of fames.

A couple of years of bad QBs in Oakland and suddenly he's had terrible QBs his whole career sans Tom Brady.

bigbluedefense
07-14-2011, 06:02 PM
Cunningham was only good that year bc all he had to do was bomb it to Moss.

Cullpepper was never as good as advertised either. They had the Randy Ratio for crying out loud.

And even if you do think both those guys were good during their respective years, they still pale in comparison to Montana and Young.

or even Rich Gannon for that matter.

yo123
07-14-2011, 06:08 PM
Cunningham was only good that year bc all he had to do was bomb it to Moss.

Cullpepper was never as good as advertised either. They had the Randy Ratio for crying out loud.

And even if you do think both those guys were good during their respective years, they still pale in comparison to Montana and Young.

or even Rich Gannon for that matter.


Culpepper had a historically good year in 2004 when Moss missed time, was banged up all year, and had only 700 yards receiving. Culpepper could play. And I don't see how Mike Tice's idiocy plays into this.

You can't have it both ways, you can't say that Moss made his QB's but it didn't work the same way with Rice somehow.

K Train
07-14-2011, 07:29 PM
I just hope he doesn't go to the Eagles. My biggest fear this offseason is if Moss and Reggie Bush go to the Eagles.

If that happens they'll have the most explosive offense ever put together.

It's totally doable for them too. Both will come relatively cheap. Bush sucks as a runner, but as a scat in that offense with all that speed on the field, he might become a player catching out of the backfield.

That's a scary thought. That offense with Moss and Bush.

in that offense bush would be better than westbrook was imo

LonghornsLegend
07-14-2011, 08:00 PM
in that offense bush would be better than westbrook was imo

You sure do like to over exaggerate guys in a "what if" scenario don't you? I think you should go back and really examine how good Westy was, how durable he was, how he had to run inside AND outside, and be the only guy they relied on year in and out. Bush has showed us absolutely nothing to think he'd be better then an All Pro in Brian Westbrook unless were looking at USC highlight tapes.


Were talking about a guy who had over 275+ carries and 1300 yards rushing, and those weren't all to the outside. He still managed to rack up 90 catches. It's 1 thing to be a decoy, having a bell cow your entire career and being a gadget player, and it's another to be Brian Westbrook.



This seems to be a commen theme of yours since you also felt AJ would have shattered Rice's TD record even though he's still working on getting 10. Reggie Bush is a great fit in Philly yes, but that's it. Please, can we stop extrapolating stats to the extreme measure when it has no legs to stand on what so ever.

Raiderz4Life
07-14-2011, 08:53 PM
Yea, B-West was an absolute animal. Could run the ball and catch it. One of my fave players during his Eagle days

niel89
07-14-2011, 09:13 PM
I was a little underwhelmed when I went to look at Westbrooks stats. A ton of receiving yards but only 2 1000 yard rushing seasons.

yo123
07-14-2011, 09:17 PM
I was a little underwhelmed when I went to look at Westbrooks stats. A ton of receiving yards but only 2 1000 yard rushing seasons.


Injuriez. And wasn't really much of a workhorse every down back earlier in his career. Westbrook was definitely a stud.

Revis Island
07-14-2011, 10:08 PM
How do we know if he's hungry again? IT WAS THREE TEAMS, THREE. He failed on THREE teams.

I read an article saying he has been working out crazy this offseason. Maybe harder than he ever has in his entire career. I'm on board with BBD when I say I expect a surprise season out of Moss. Something like 1200 yards and 10 TDs.

LonghornsLegend
07-14-2011, 11:19 PM
I was a little underwhelmed when I went to look at Westbrooks stats. A ton of receiving yards but only 2 1000 yard rushing seasons.


That's still Philly, look at in context. He only had 3 seasons over 200 carries. Two of those he hit 1000 yards rushing. The other he had 936 and missed two games. If he was getting the amount of carries Chris Johnson was getting right now it might be a different story. It's just that on top of being a very good inside and out runner he could still catch 77 passes, for 700 yards.


Reggie Bush will never, ever be what Westbrook was in his prime. I don't care where he was drafted, or how a team will use him. Good luck with making him your primary RB who gets 230+ carries in a season and a ton of catches. That would never happen though.


For one he wouldn't make it past game 6 without messing up his knee, or the gameplan wouldn't last past game 5 because they would realize whatever bum RB they picked up off the street ran the ball better between the tackles. But yea let's keep talking up a glorified Darren Sproles and treat Westbrook like he was some Danny Woodhead fill in.

Me Likey Rookies
07-15-2011, 01:05 AM
But yea let's keep talking up a glorified Darren Sproles and treat Westbrook like he was some Danny Woodhead fill in.

whoa. Sproles > Bush.

jack1077
07-15-2011, 01:16 AM
whoa. Sproles > Bush.

Sproles >>>>>>>> Bush

really want to packers to sign Sproles. That would be amazing.

LonghornsLegend
07-15-2011, 01:34 AM
whoa. Sproles > Bush.

Glorified doesn't mean better to me, means more hype.

K Train
07-15-2011, 08:30 AM
thread got pretty hijacked. all im saying is i think westbrook went from underappreciated to overrated pretty quickly, i think bush could have the opposite happen if he goes to the right team, maybe im just not willing to give up on him just yet lol

its a locked out offseason, wtf else do you want to talk about

bigbluedefense
07-15-2011, 10:54 AM
Westy wasn't overrated. Philly just never runs the ball.

Bob Sanders Dreadlock
07-15-2011, 11:22 AM
Reggie may never be an elite runner between the tackles but he is one of the best receiving runningbacks in the NFL. He had over 700 yards receiving as a rookie if he stays healthy even with a pretty heavy backfield he could do that again this year.

K Train
07-15-2011, 11:22 AM
Westy wasn't overrated. Philly just never runs the ball.

i think he was invaluable to their offense, but that might have been because like you said they never ran the ball, he was perfect for andy reids offense.

even though they did have a pretty decent power run game around the goaline especially running behind runyan and andrews and company.

i hate when a guy gets old and washed up and everyone talks about him like he was a top 5 RB at the time, he wasnt, maybe in the world of fantasy football...he was a difference maker and essential to their offense but i think its possible he was also a product of the system.

and while i hate that, its completely understandable to understand why people wouldnt like me saying bush could still be something, especially in that role considering he hasnt really lived up to any of his hype, but im not ready to throw the towel in on him...might be bold, but i hope we get to see bush used in a way that he CAN live up to that hype someday...maybe its just wishful thinking at this point though

bigbluedefense
07-15-2011, 12:27 PM
Like I said, if anyone can resurrect Reggie's career it's Fat Andy. I don't think it happens, but if it does, Andy is the guy to do it.

Worst case scenario for the Eagles if they do get him, he becomes a great kick/punt returner for them to pair with DJax.

K Train
07-15-2011, 01:30 PM
back to CJ, matt stafford predicted hed play a 16 game season this year so hes gotta be feeling pretty good.

Theyve shown great chemistry in really limited time together, lets just assume weeks 8 and 9 with a rusty, still lingering injured stafford is a preview of whats to come...he threw 6 TDs and 1 pick in those 2 games, 3 to calvin against washington and 2 to other recievers during the jets game where calvin was held completely in check...now with titus young, a better run game, pettigrew getting better hopefully he'll show he can win games and move the ball when calvin is going against top guys like revis and just struggling all game long, and maybe even open more things up for him even when he is.

based on whos been throwing to calvin and his pretty good success so far, its not crazy to think that if stafford actually comes through and plays 16 games healthy that calvin couldnt get 90-100/1300/15

Saints-Tigers
07-15-2011, 02:21 PM
At least you can see which guys have watched Reggie play outside of his rookie season.

It still bears mentioning that Reggie's problem isn't his running between the tackles, it's when he goes outside of the tackles, or on toss/pitch plays where he loses a ton of yards.

If they designed Reggie's runs to be 100% up the middle, I'd be happy, it would look more like the Cardinals game, or the Rams, or the giants in his rookie season.

Saints-Tigers
07-15-2011, 02:25 PM
And Reggie is way better than Sproles. His rookie year was far superior than anything Sproles has done in his career, and when he's healthy, he's a vastly superior player than he was back then.

Edit: and on topic, Calvin would be the best WR in the league when healthy and on a decent team.

LonghornsLegend
07-15-2011, 02:28 PM
i think he was invaluable to their offense, but that might have been because like you said they never ran the ball, he was perfect for andy reids offense.

even though they did have a pretty decent power run game around the goaline especially running behind runyan and andrews and company.

i hate when a guy gets old and washed up and everyone talks about him like he was a top 5 RB at the time, he wasnt, maybe in the world of fantasy football...he was a difference maker and essential to their offense but i think its possible he was also a product of the system.

and while i hate that, its completely understandable to understand why people wouldnt like me saying bush could still be something, especially in that role considering he hasnt really lived up to any of his hype, but im not ready to throw the towel in on him...might be bold, but i hope we get to see bush used in a way that he CAN live up to that hype someday...maybe its just wishful thinking at this point though




You go from 1 extreme to the other.


So because I don't think Bush would be as good as Westbrook that somehows means I don't think he'll be valuable every again in his career. And it also means I said Westbrook was a top 5 RB. Because those are things I said right? If your going to say something outlandish, at least try in keep in perspective what's being said.


Nobody said Bush is washed up as a pro, but saying you think he could be better if he ended up in Philly is crazy. I like his fit there also. But that doesn't mean I expect him to be 1600+ yards good for anyone, ever. To simply expect Bush to put up the numbers Westy did by just changing teams is doing alot more then being optimistic.

K Train
07-15-2011, 02:37 PM
im not "simply expecting" in fact id say i would be more along the lines of cautiously optimistic, but i think he could do it...and i dont think seeing his potential in the offense is too crazy. but i do think a change of scenery and a new offense would only do him good. theres really no need for you to be offended, might be a bold statement and you may not agree but i think that him in a brian westbrook like role he could be brilliant. He can be a much tougher runner than he shows sometimes, maybe a new team, a new philosphy and a fresh start will bring that out of him

Complex
07-15-2011, 02:59 PM
What makes you think that Moss will tear it up again exactly? Playing like garbage on THREE different teams isn't enough to cast him off?

He was run blocking in Tennessee not catching the ball. Jeff Fisher brought him in to run block during games.



I also think Randy Moss will have a big season.

yo123
07-15-2011, 10:29 PM
At least you can see which guys have watched Reggie play outside of his rookie season.



I love how on this site arguments always come to this.

"What? You disagree with me? Well....ummmm...YOU HAVEN'T WATCHED HIM PLAY!"

Argument over. Or so people seem to think.

Saints-Tigers
07-15-2011, 11:33 PM
I love how on this site arguments always come to this.

"What? You disagree with me? Well....ummmm...YOU HAVEN'T WATCHED HIM PLAY!"

Argument over. Or so people seem to think.


Well, when you see the same (wrong) argument, the only explanation is just that people aren't watching much outside of their own team, but hold onto the same repeated things that were right early on.

I could go into why it's a false assertion, but I'll just be hit with "nah ah".

I'm not saying Reggie is any more or less valuable than people think, well, I guess I am, because he's certainly been a lot more valuable than Darren Sproles, I'm just saying that the reason Reggie hasn't panned out has very little to do with not being able to run between the tackles, it's that he's been nearly a non factor on outside runs, and not quite as explosive deep down the field as originally thought. If there is one place he did do well, it's moving the chains and getting into the endzone in between the tackles situations.

The thing is though, if you look at his Rookie year, where he had his most touches, and the largest amount of viewers, you would be right, he would hit a hole half heartedly, then turn and run outside. That's why I can tell if a person's exposure to Reggie was f rom that season.

jack1077
07-15-2011, 11:57 PM
Sooooooooo back on topic then, right?