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View Full Version : Who would you rather have as your General Manager?


Shane P. Hallam
07-13-2011, 11:03 PM
See the poll and discuss

Nalej
07-13-2011, 11:07 PM
Can I just kill myself instead?
I voted McDaniels. I think Millen is the worst of all time.

A Perfect Score
07-13-2011, 11:08 PM
Did McDaniels ever make a single good pick? At least Millen drafted Megatron.

Hurricanes25
07-13-2011, 11:09 PM
McDaniels is bad but I just don't know how someone could take Millen over him.

Hurricanes25
07-13-2011, 11:12 PM
Did McDaniels ever make a single good pick? At least Millen drafted Megatron.

True but Millen had a lot more opportunities to hit on a 1st rounder than McDaniels had.

Pat Sims 90
07-13-2011, 11:18 PM
No Mike Brown??

I would take McDaniels over Millen

Forenci
07-13-2011, 11:20 PM
True but Millen had a lot more opportunities to hit on a 1st rounder than McDaniels had.

He also traded away a young franchise QB and one of the best WR's in the league in addition to not drafting anyone worth while.

Plus he drafted Tebow in the 1st. Automatic failure.

A Perfect Score
07-13-2011, 11:23 PM
He also traded away a young franchise QB and one of the best WR's in the league in addition to not drafting anyone worth while.

Plus he drafted Tebow in the 1st. Automatic failure.

This. McDaniels disassembled a borderline playoff team that had one of the more dynamic young QB/WR combos in the entire league. If he had just swallowed his enormous ******* ego, kept those two, stayed in a 4-3 defense and actually drafted some defensive talent, we'd be looking at a very different Broncos team.

Sure, Millen was a moron, but he wasn't as completely inept. McDaniels did as much damage in a much shorter time period.

nepg
07-13-2011, 11:41 PM
McD had a plan in mind at least. He had a system. He just didn't have enough experience to pull it off properly.

Disassembling the Broncos was on the owner, not McDaniels. All they had to do was hire Steve Spagnuolo or Jim Schwartz to install a defense and leave Jeremy Bates in place to run the offense as an Assistant HC/OC. They knew before he hired McDaniels that there's a certain type of character and players that he expects on the team.

Joe Everett
07-13-2011, 11:44 PM
This. McDaniels disassembled a borderline playoff team that had one of the more dynamic young QB/WR combos in the entire league. If he had just swallowed his enormous ******* ego, kept those two, stayed in a 4-3 defense and actually drafted some defensive talent, we'd be looking at a very different Broncos team.

Sure, Millen was a moron, but he wasn't as completely inept. McDaniels did as much damage in a much shorter time period.

While it's difficult for me to vote for Millen over anybody, I'm a huge Denver Broncos fan and even I have to agree that what McDaniels did in a very short time period was simply atrocious.

I have two worthless Jay Cutler + Brandon Marshall jerseys thanks to that idiot and what did he replace them with? Knowshow Moreno + Timmy :(

I actually like Robert Ayers a lot more now that we're back in a 4-3 but that's besides the point... McDaniels should be shot in the face for killing what was once a great QB/WR tandem.

I still stand by the fact that I will jump him if I ever see him walking the streets of Indianapolis. I hate that little rat bastard so much.

Shane P. Hallam
07-14-2011, 12:04 AM
While it's difficult for me to vote for Millen over anybody, I'm a huge Denver Broncos fan and even I have to agree that what McDaniels did in a very short time period was simply atrocious.

I have two worthless Jay Cutler + Brandon Marshall jerseys thanks to that idiot and what did he replace them with? Knowshow Moreno + Timmy :(

I actually like Robert Ayers a lot more now that we're back in a 4-3 but that's besides the point... McDaniels should be shot in the face for killing what was once a great QB/WR tandem.

I still stand by the fact that I will jump him if I ever see him walking the streets of Indianapolis. I hate that little rat bastard so much.

If he coaches in the Senior Bowl one year, I may hold you to that.

falloutboy14
07-14-2011, 12:12 AM
The way I see it, McDaniels dismantled the Broncos. As mentioned, he dismantled a potent offense, but pretty sure he also moved the defense from a 4-3 to a 3-4 (which when the personal doesn't is my pet-peeve of coaching changes).

I don't know too much about Matt Millen's tenure, aside from the WR busts & Joey Harrington. Chances are the Lions sucked before he arrived, and he left the team in the same maner. But unless he's the guy who escorted Barry Sanders out the door, I think McDaniels takes this one.

phlysac
07-14-2011, 12:25 AM
Josh McDaniels vs. Matt Millen????



The winner gets to duke it out with All-time-Great Executive...

http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/8619/joethomas.jpg
Joe Thomas!!!

doingthisinsteadofwork
07-14-2011, 12:33 AM
Millen was horrible at drafting, but the intent behind some of his picks was pretty reasonable at the time. Some of those players just didn't pan out.

Just about everything McDaniels did seemed irrational.

wogitalia
07-14-2011, 12:55 AM
What a choice!

Millen missed on just about every pick he made and just couldn't get out of his own way.

McDaniels put himself behind the 8ball from the start when Cutler bitched out on him and the franchise for considering a trade, from that point on he was going to have to achieve above and beyond to keep his job and he quite simply couldn't. His drafting and personnel moves made his coaching job even harder!

Still Millen managed to make the team considerably worse despite having more than enough time to gut the roster and build with his own guys. McDaniel only got the time to gut the roster.

descendency
07-14-2011, 05:32 AM
McDaniels may have screwed up a lot, but he isn't the colossal failure that Millen was for almost a decade.

K Train
07-14-2011, 08:36 AM
mcdaniels traded away cutler, marshall, a first round pick for alphonso smith, then they traded sheffler to the lions, hillis to the brown, traded alphonso smith to the lions for a 3rd TE (so essentially sheffler+1st round pick ended up equalling a 3rd TE), then they draft moreno with 100 RBs on the roster, they drafted ayers to fail in a 34.

millen drafted some WRs and had a few misses, but give me millen

bucfan12
07-14-2011, 08:53 AM
McDaniels may have screwed up a lot, but he isn't the colossal failure that Millen was for almost a decade.

You're right about that, although Denver didn't continue to give McDaniels the oppurtunity to bury their franchise even further like Detroit did with Millen.

McDaniels gets hired and first thing he does is attempt to trade his franchise QB in a 3 way deal involving NE and TB in order to land Cassel. That backfires and then all of a sudden he's in a world of trouble and has no choice but to trade Cutler.

He then switches to a 3-4, gets rid of Marshall and Sheffler, two offensive weapons that complimented Cutler perfectly in Denver, a young explosive core to their offense.

He then drafts Moreno, Ayers, Demaryious Thomas, Tim Tebow, and include Alphonso Smith as a high picks for them. Moreno hasn't done crap, Buckhalter has looked better.

Ayers may be better in a 4-3, but I honestly haven't seen much explosion off the ball in the pass rush.

Demaryious Thomas has been hurt, but didn't show much as a rookie. Plus, he was drafted ahead of Dez Bryant, Mike Williams, and heck even Arrellius Benn showed more promise and production than Thomas.

Tim Tebow still has a TON of work to do. I liked him as a college player and has tremendous work ethic, but I don't know if he's an NFL QB.

And he already traded away Alphonso Smith, who was 37th overall in 2009.

I think McDaniels is worse, but he didn't have enough time to destroy a franchise.

A Perfect Score
07-14-2011, 09:43 AM
Yeah, I really thought Charles Rodgers was going to be awesome too. And BMW as well.

FlyingElvis
07-14-2011, 10:48 AM
May as well ask me if I'd rather have my nuts crushed or blown up.

I'd say McD. McD made such an epic mess in a short time but the whole Cutler mess is still Jay being a total baby, imo. It's probably silly to think McD would get a bit better with time, but we know for sure Millen was a colossal, long term disaster that it's impossible for me to choose him.

bigbluedefense
07-14-2011, 10:52 AM
I'm going to go with McDaniels only bc I think if given more time, he might have possibly built an 8-8 team. The guy was a horrible GM, but he did find some gems too.

Brandon Lloyd, his oline picks were solid, um...some of his FA pickups were decent. Ok I know I'm reaching, but it's still better than Millen right?

.....right? :/

bucfan12
07-14-2011, 11:30 AM
I'm going to go with McDaniels only bc I think if given more time, he might have possibly built an 8-8 team. The guy was a horrible GM, but he did find some gems too.

Brandon Lloyd, his oline picks were solid, um...some of his FA pickups were decent. Ok I know I'm reaching, but it's still better than Millen right?

.....right? :/

5 High 1st/2nd round picks were either busts/very questionable for players who haven't shown anything.

I don't think Ayers even recorded a sack in his 1st 2 seasons. Knowshon was taken at 12 overall.

Thomas and Tebow, the jury is still out there, but Thomas hasn't shown me anything at all but being injury prone. Tebow, ehh he didn't even earn the starting QB spot last year at the end of the season. They are better off with Orton to start.

bigbluedefense
07-14-2011, 11:38 AM
5 High 1st/2nd round picks were either busts/very questionable for players who haven't shown anything.

I don't think Ayers even recorded a sack in his 1st 2 seasons. Knowshon was taken at 12 overall.

Thomas and Tebow, the jury is still out there, but Thomas hasn't shown me anything at all but being injury prone. Tebow, ehh he didn't even earn the starting QB spot last year at the end of the season. They are better off with Orton to start.

I never said he was great....

But Millen had to be worse right? I mean...they went 0-16 one season! 0-16!

At least Josh did SOME positive things. The oline wasn't terrible, he got Lloyd, Dumerville thrived under him, Eric Decker was a good pick, Dawkins was a solid FA pickup.

He was a horrible GM, but as horrible as Millen? I dunno, tough call. Both are epically bad, but if I had a gun to my head, I think I'd have to go with Josh.

bucfan12
07-14-2011, 12:01 PM
I never said he was great....

But Millen had to be worse right? I mean...they went 0-16 one season! 0-16!

At least Josh did SOME positive things. The oline wasn't terrible, he got Lloyd, Dumerville thrived under him, Eric Decker was a good pick, Dawkins was a solid FA pickup.

He was a horrible GM, but as horrible as Millen? I dunno, tough call. Both are epically bad, but if I had a gun to my head, I think I'd have to go with Josh.

Don't forget the decision to let go of Mike Nolan after 1 successful year as Def. Coordinator? Hmm. What was he thinking there?

It's hard to tell because Millen was there so long, yet McDaniels did so much damage in so little time. Millen was smart enough not to trade out of the 2 spot in 2007 when WR at the time wasn't a huge need and they drafted Megatron, so he gave the Lions a huge plus for that. Gosder Cherilous hasn't been awful, as he's held his own at RT.

They've both missed big time on 1st round picks, but McDaniels didn't make it 2 full seasons, so I'd go with Millen.

bucfan12
07-14-2011, 12:03 PM
Also, in 2009, McDaniels passed on Josh Freeman and the opportunity to move up and get Sanchez to replace Cutler. Took 2 busts instead, and then traded the 2010 1st to take Smith in round 2, whom he traded away after 1 season.

Then, passed on Dez Bryant for Demaryious Thomas, used the picks acquired from Miami for Marshall to trade up for Tim Tebow? Come on man.

He tore apart a potential playoff team into a dump in 2 years.

Roddoliver
07-14-2011, 12:19 PM
Then, passed on Dez Bryant for Demaryious Thomas, used the picks acquired from Miami for Marshall to trade up for Tim Tebow? Come on man.


Demaryius Thomas was a mistake. Dez Bryant also would have been a mistake especially after what the Broncos experienced with Brandon Marshall.

Just because the team traded Marshall, it does not mean the 1st round pick should have been a WR. Marshall himself was a 4th round pick. There were good defensive players available.

And the Broncos did not use the Marshall "picks" to get Tebow. The other 2nd round pick was used in the 2011 draft (#46 - Orlando Franklin).

Tebow was not that expensive for a potential franchise QB. The Broncos moved 18 spots from the 2nd round to the 1st round and gave a 3rd and a 4th. No big deal.

The 49ers gave a 4th and a 5th to move up 9 spots in the 2nd round to draft Kaepernick.

...

To answer the poll: I'd rather have Millen because at least he was not a New England cheater and he does not speak and scream like a little girl. In a few years I would fire Millen anyway.

Forenci
07-14-2011, 12:36 PM
I imagine it must be difficult for anyone other than Broncos fans to understand to crappiness of Josh McDaniels.

As a Giants fan, it would be like coming aboard and trading away Eli Manning and Hakeem Nicks. If a coach did that I would go ape ****, and they are both probably not as good as Cutler/Marshall were at the time.

bigbluedefense
07-14-2011, 12:39 PM
let's be fair here, dumervil thrived in spite of mcdaniels decision to remove any and all talent and ability from the denver defense. i'd argue that mcdaniels, in spite of his clear disinterest in having a successful offense, was FAR more determined to make sure he never came close to fielding an even high school level defense. dumervil was fantastic in a 43, got better, then got hurt. decker's done nothing. dawkins provided veteran leadership to a defense that didn't have enough talent to take advantage of it.

nearly every move mcdaniels made was a clear wrong move *without* the benefit of hindsight. most of the big failures from millen looked like the right moves at the time.

yes, i'm biased. but people seem to want to give one of the worst head coaches and the single worst personnel man ever this big pass for some reason. i've never understood it. he was a complete failure at every conceivable level of his job. which doesn't mean he can't be a successful OC *only* going forward.

I like Decker. I think if he sees the field this year, he could be a solid possession WR.

He would have thrived in McDaniel's offense too. In a traditional route running offense, we'll see, but Decker was built for Josh's offense. Lloyd was too. It will be interesting to see if either of those guys will continue to improve in a regular offense. They were both very specific to McDaniel's system.

Watchman
07-14-2011, 12:52 PM
I went with Millen. McDaniels did a significant amount of damage in a short amount of time. I never understood a HC or GM's attitude that they have to build something from scratch with their guys. Never made any sense to me to take the approach that existing players of value have no value because they were there before you.

boknows34
07-14-2011, 01:02 PM
Woody Paige (I know, I know but he's correct here) stuck the knife into Moreno, calling him 'a wimp on the field', and McDaniels' 'bust' 1st draft in his Denver Post Mailbag:

McDaniels claimed to draft tough, smart, motivated guys who love to play football. Knowshon Moreno, Robert Ayers and Richard Quinn (three of McDaniels' first four draft picks) are all going into make-or-break seasons. Yet I have not heard about any of those three working out or attending these unofficial team workouts. Any idea what these three guys are up to?
--Scott, Denver

Scott, thank you. Stimulating question. I have no idea where those three are, honestly. I asked around today, and got no definite answers about their whereabouts. I assume (maybe wrongly) that they are back where they live, and working out on their own. They have not been seen at the Denver-area workouts, according to my sources.

In regard to your first statement, I never heard Josh say he was drafting smart, tough, motivated players. Maybe he did. What he told me after the first year was the scouting department was already in place, and they got a late start (although he had four months) in evaluating talent.

What I do know — from someone who worked closely with Josh and is someone I trust to tell me the truth — is that after the draft, McDaniels and the staff believed privately they made a big mistake on Moreno. He was not what they thought. He hasn't been tough, smart, motivated, if that's what you're asking. He has been a bust. I've said it before. He's not a great clubhouse guy. Interpret that how you want, and he's been a wimp on the field.

John Fox is bringing back the zone blocking, and Moreno is not a one-cut back who will go against the grain, or, at least, he hasn't been, and he doesn't get
nto the secondary fast. They need another running back bad, and Fox, in our three-hour conversation last week, said running back is the priority, along with defensive tackles, in free agency.

The Broncos weren't pleased with the development, or play, of Ayers in the first season, and Quinn was lost. Ayers was better last year until he got hurt, and Quinn was lost. The move to defensive end should help Ayers, but I'm not convinced. I read recently that Fox likes him. Fox told me he has seen film of every player over and over, but until he actually sees them in practices and games, he will reserve judgement.

Fox also told me he hasn't even met a bunch of the players. If he were my coach, I might have come (or flown) in and said hello before the lockout began. I guess some didn't care.

The Broncos made a big mistake in making the deal that allowed them to draft Quinn. He's a blocking tight end who I think will see spot duty. That first draft was basically a bust.

Alphonso Smith came at the cost of Denver's 1st rd pick in 2010 (14th overall) which Seattle used on Earl Thomas, but was dumped after one season for the Lions 3rd string TE. The 2009 Denver draft was an epic fail. And we haven't even mentioned trading Peyton Hillis for Brady Quinn.

Cutler/Marshall/Hillis/Scheffler turned into Tebow-Orton-B.Quinn/Thomas/Moreno/R.Quinn while also burning a Top 15 pick in the 2010 draft on what eventually became a 3rd string TE after Smith was dumped. Good job McFailure. Not sure if even Millen could achieve that.

FlyingElvis
07-14-2011, 01:37 PM
people seem to want to give one of the worst head coaches and the single worst personnel man ever this big pass for some reason

People are only giving him a pass in the context of McD v. Millen. And even at that, it looks to be a pretty close split so far. lol

bigbluedefense
07-14-2011, 02:08 PM
Damn...the more I think about it, the more I realize how horrible McDaniels was.

But still...Millen was the GM of a winless team. A winless team! In today's era of parity, you know how bad that is?

I just don't know if McDaniels would ever produce a team that epically bad.

FlyingElvis
07-14-2011, 02:20 PM
Yes. It is basically a choice between a guy you know was a slow-burning epic failure vs. a guy who was a fast-track epic failure.

My reasoning was simple: Millen was a known flop over a decade+ with no hope of "oh, he'll get better." While I don't think McD would have done better with more time, I can still at least pretend he might have.

King Carls 5 Year Plan
07-14-2011, 04:44 PM
this is a hard choice. i'm SO glad my Chiefs don't have either of these guys in the front office making critical decisions.

i went with Millen. yes he had some horrible choices, but i feel like the guys he drafted were highly thought of when he drafted them. and his best draft choice, Megatron, was the hardest selection to make. drafting another WR showed Millen had HUGE balls and was legitimately trying to take the BPA.

McDaniels is exaclty this a guy who was a fast-track epic failure. he took a team with promise of a good/decent future and drove them into the dirt with a quickness. if he could have added to the talent in Denver instead of replacing it, he would be sitting atop the AFC West for years. his vision for this team combined with his ego were colossally terrible. i'd feel sorry for Denver fans, but i didn't get much sympathy from them when KC was in the dumps.

AntoinCD
07-14-2011, 04:46 PM
The thing about McDaniels is he had a major problem with ego, his drafting was horrible and a lack of tact in dealing with his players.

He should have been more sensitive in the cases of Cutler and Marshall however it was clear that neither were going to be "good soldiers" for him and he wasn't prepared to baby them.

No one can even attempt to gloss over his failures as a drafter. All the above mentioned mistakes show he was clearly out of his depth as a talent evaluator. However his mistakes did no turn out as bad as Millen's. Joey Harrington crippled them. Mike Williams was horrible. Carlos Rodgers was terrible. Roy Williams was only marginally successful. He drafted these three WRs in the top 10 in consecutive years despite a plethora of other needs, particularly defensively. Ernie Sims was another top 10 bust. The only real success they had early in any draft in the last decade was Calvin Johnson, Roy Williams and two average OTs in Backus and Cherilus. McDaniels had two horrible drafts. Millen made a decade out of it.

The biggest problem McDaniels had was he tried to be Belichick. The Patriots had a system for developing their roster around players who buy into the system. However despite his public image Belichick is lauded for his willingness to listen to the people he puts in place like Pioli, Weis, college coaches he has worked with, Nick Caserio etc. McDaniels came in and made all the decisions himself and royally screwed up.

Would he have changed? Probably not but despite his failures he has to come out on top of Matt Millen who must go down as the worst GM of all time.

wicket
07-14-2011, 04:56 PM
the speed with which mcdaniels destroyed a team that was set up to be a contender for a while is pretty much unrivaled, millen blew but he at least 'just' kept a sucky team sucky

AntoinCD
07-14-2011, 05:08 PM
I would describe the first team in history to register 0 wins as worse than sucky.

I also dont think that Millen should get points because the Fords dont like to fire people. He should have been fired at least 3 or 4 years before he was.

Raiderz4Life
07-14-2011, 05:37 PM
Detroit sucked before Millen and sucked during Millen and is now starting to maybe do something. Millen contributed Megatron which imo is >>>> anything McD has brought in.

McD destroyed a team that was up and coming. Then made them the bottom dwellers of the AFC West. Which I'm ok with cuz that means its not the Raiders.

AntoinCD
07-14-2011, 06:22 PM
who? charles rodgers looked great until he broke his collar bone twice. carlos rogers was a db for the redskins.

Oops lol that's what I meant. And unfortunately injuries happen and derail careers as to drug issues and it's not as though he didn't have problems in college. I dont give Millen a free pass on this one. A bust is a bust no matter how it happened.

Monomach
07-15-2011, 03:51 PM
I'll take Millen over McDaniels any day. He drafted a lot of busts, but at least they were guys everyone thought highly of at the time.

I disagree strongly with the concept of spending all of those high picks on wideouts, but we all thought they'd be productive starters.

He didn't inherit a borderline playoff team and give away all of the talent the way McDaniels did.

Unbiased
07-15-2011, 05:20 PM
I voted McDaniels because at least he had some kind of a plan. Plus I feel like he may have been humbled from his firing.

Millen had no plan whatsoever. Didn't he arbitrarily pick Brian Calhoun in the 3rd round without knowing anything about him?

Maybe This Year Mayhew
07-15-2011, 05:23 PM
First of all suprisingly, Millen isn't the worst GM of all time for the Lions. Russ Thomas was GM from 1964-1989 and the Lions only made the playoffs 3 times and he was the GM for 26 years. And he almost blew signing Barry Sanders. You want to know why Detroit has only ever won one playoff game. Russ Thomas and Matt Millen are big reasons. 1990s the coaches made the personnel moves and 6 playoffs in 10 years at least. Now with Mayhew and Schwartz we are climbing our way out of the uber basement into relevance.

http://gregeno.blogspot.com/2009/07/20-years-ago-russ-thomas-had-one-last.html

Bengalsrocket
07-16-2011, 02:17 AM
I voted McDaniels because at least he had some kind of a plan. Plus I feel like he may have been humbled from his firing.

Millen had no plan whatsoever. Didn't he arbitrarily pick Brian Calhoun in the 3rd round without knowing anything about him?

I feel similarly towards McDaniels. It seemed like he went into Denver trying to put his stamp on the team. He wanted his OWN QB, his OWN offense, his OWN defense. I don't even think it was about trust or anything like that. I think he just wanted to be seen as this football wizard who could do what no one else could.

I think he picked Tebow for the same reason. No one wanted Tebow and that made McDaniels want him even more. As if he was going to prove to the rest of the league that he could make Tebow a successful starter.

ellsy82
07-18-2011, 05:28 PM
Whoa...what a question. That's like debating which thumb you'd like to have torn off. Millen was so horrible, that I never thought there's be someone worse. Well, I was wrong. McDaniels takes the cake. Epic failure on the highest stage in pro football. I'd be ashamed to accept another coaching job.

AntoinCD
07-18-2011, 05:52 PM
unless you're going to try to argue some kind of precognition here, there's no way you can hold a GM accountable for a freak injury. it's absolutely ridiculous.

No absolutely not. But it's also tough to give him a free pass because the guy got hurt twice and then got caught using drugs, and if Im not mistaken had an addiction to vicodin. The injuries are freak occurences, and unfortunate at that, but there was a drug history with him.

A Perfect Score
07-18-2011, 05:56 PM
No absolutely not. But it's also tough to give him a free pass because the guy got hurt twice and then got caught using drugs, and if Im not mistaken had an addiction to vicodin. The injuries are freak occurences, and unfortunate at that, but there was a drug history with him.

I'd imagine that the addiction to pain medication may have had something to do with the large number of injuries he suffered in a short period. It's never happened to me personally, but I can't imagine having a broken collarbone tickles.

AntoinCD
07-18-2011, 06:38 PM
I'd imagine that the addiction to pain medication may have had something to do with the large number of injuries he suffered in a short period. It's never happened to me personally, but I can't imagine having a broken collarbone tickles.

Guys get hurt but not all become addicted to painkillers. I'd say it was pretty sore and it must have really sucked the second time but he I don't think anyone can say Millen deserves a pass on this because he got hurt twice then was out of the league. Obviously hindsight is 20/20 but when going through Millen's draft picks, Rogers has to be put down as a bust. No asterisks or explanations afterwards, he was a bust. Who knows, if he had stayed healthy his whole career maybe the drugs issue(pot as well, not just painkillers) would never have come up. My point is though that there was a previous history in college with him.

Brothgar
07-18-2011, 09:14 PM
I chose Josh McD because with him as the GM you will at least get a half way decent head coach to go with your historically bad drafts. With millen you get the historically bad drafts and then hire Rod Marinelli as you head coach.

Timbathia
07-18-2011, 09:59 PM
the speed with which mcdaniels destroyed a team that was set up to be a contender for a while is pretty much unrivaled, millen blew but he at least 'just' kept a sucky team sucky

This is the bit continually repeated by non-Broncos fans that annoys me the most. The Broncos were not set up to be a contender when McDaniels took over - not then, not in the recent past and not in the foreseeable future.

They had a absolutely, disgracefully, mind-blowingly pathetic defense. They were just awful. Apart from Doom there was not a scrap of talent on the roster. Defenses cant be built overnight. If nothing else that awful defense would have stopped them winning a playoff for a decade by themselves.

And secondly, the offense wasnt that great either. They racked up yards between the 20s with ease but couldnt score to save themselves. Cutler is pretty good, but not elite. Marshall is very good, but one big strong WR does not win a superbowl. Hillis is good in a limited role, and Scheffler????? he is a long way from the elite TEs in the game. If anyone is seriously suggested this core of 4 players with zero defense to support them was set up to be a contender - then you are freaking kidding yourself.

McDaniels failed, mainly due to poor drafting, huge ego and just not being even remotely likeable (to fans or players) - and because the rebuilding was aborted part way through it will take longer to get back to where we want to be, however, he took a decent team and dismantled it, not a contender.

wordofi
07-18-2011, 10:25 PM
Did McDaniels ever make a single good pick? At least Millen drafted Megatron.

That's like giving credit to the GM who drafts Andrew Luck #1 overall in 2012 or to the Cardinals GM who drafted Patrick Peterson #5 overall.

fenikz
07-18-2011, 11:13 PM
That's like giving credit to the GM who drafts Andrew Luck #1 overall in 2012 or to the Cardinals GM who drafted Patrick Peterson #5 overall.


Rod Graves is one of the best GMs in the league he has proven that over and over again, not his fault ownership is too cheap to retain his talent

ArkyRamsFan
07-19-2011, 11:31 AM
If anyone is seriously suggested this core of 4 players with zero defense to support them was set up to be a contender - then you are freaking kidding yourself.

McDaniels failed, mainly due to poor drafting, huge ego and just not being even remotely likeable (to fans or players) - and because the rebuilding was aborted part way through it will take longer to get back to where we want to be, however, he took a decent team and dismantled it, not a contender.

Timbathia

I believe the usage of the word "contender" in this context was more along the lines of a playoff contender. At least under Shanahan the Broncos were in the playoff hunt all the way up to weeks 16 & 17. That in itself is a huge difference to the carnage that defined what McDaniel did.

I will grant you that until the defense was improved Denver was certainly anything but a serious SuperBowl contender; but, again, I don't think that was the point the OP was making.

Just my 2 cents.

Shane P. Hallam
07-23-2011, 11:43 AM
McDaniels record keeps getting better! Yay Perrish Cox!