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View Full Version : Kyle Orton is going to be the Broncos' starting quarterback.


boknows34
08-03-2011, 10:24 AM
According to Adam Schefter on Sportscenter.

ESPN's @AdamSchefter on #Broncos QB situation: "The Denver Broncos are not going to trade Kyle Orton. That's not going to happen."

More Schefter on #Broncos: "They're not going to trade Kyle Orton this season. Kyle Orton is going to be the Broncos' starting quarterback."

http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx30/mb_zeropointzero/bfrytj.gif

Splat
08-03-2011, 10:26 AM
Can you blame them?

jrdrylie
08-03-2011, 10:41 AM
Can you blame them?

Yes you can. Kyle Orton is not a good QB. He put up inflated stats last year but he was 3-10 (and has won only 5 of his has 23 starts). He even be a better QB than Tebow at this point. But Tebow has far more potential. I also think he would win more games as a starter than Orton because he is more of a playmaker while Orton is no more than a caretaker.

They are going to suck this year. They have no good running backs. They have no rush defense. It doesn't matter who starts this year, Orton or Tebow, they are not making the playoffs or even getting close. Why not see what they have in Tebow. If he sucks, draft Luck/Barkley/Jones next year. If he is good. Fantastic.

keylime_5
08-03-2011, 11:21 AM
Tebow might be a decent starter in time, but his slow release last year looked exactly like it did at Florida, starting the throw with the ball behind his hip. Orton put up some eye popping numbers in McDaniels' offense last year and looked a lot better than he did in any season before. People would rather talk about how Orton doesn't win and how he wasn't clutch, but truthfully the guy has gotten better every year and isn't a bad starting QB. He might not be the answer as a franchise QB but I think he could turn into a Kerry Collins or even Trent Green or Rich Gannon type journeyman starting QB.

It wont' be long before Tebow goes in b/c they'll be out of contention anyway.

bearsfan_51
08-03-2011, 11:26 AM
It's the right move. If the Broncos start off slow they can still bench him and give Tebow 10-12 games to prove himself. If they don't, then all the better.

I personally don't think Orton is very good, but I wouldn't trade him for a 4th either.

SolidGold
08-03-2011, 11:32 AM
John Fox runs a pretty vanilla offense reliant on the power running game and a "game manager" type QB. Orton can fit this role and on a team with an actual running game and stout defense they might have success. But since they will probably finish near or at the bottom of the division using this formula they should just let Tebow play and see what he can dow but instead they will probably not want to install any formations/plays that cater to Tebow's strengths like the Panthers are doing with Newton.

I find it funny that rotoworld believes there is Tebow hype, I cannot recall a more scrutinized prospect than Tebow. On the other hand the media seems to love Newton and are dying to anoint him the day one starter.

bigbluedefense
08-03-2011, 11:35 AM
The truth that no one wants to admit is, Tim Tebow sucks.

That's why Kyle Orton is starting. We all knew Tebow wouldn't be ready this year.

bearsfan_51
08-03-2011, 11:38 AM
I think a ton of people would love to admit that. There are far more people who dislike Tebow than like him.

I personally find him a little annoying, but I appreciate the good he does, however he justifies it.

Sloopy
08-03-2011, 11:39 AM
I think a ton of people would love to admit that. There are far more people who dislike Tebow than like him.

Yet people still argue that they should get rid of Orton, its like they forget who is playing behind him in the depth chart

bearsfan_51
08-03-2011, 11:41 AM
I think people make that argument because they assume the Broncos are going to suck no matter who the QB is, which is very likely the case.

bigbluedefense
08-03-2011, 11:43 AM
I like the guy too, he's a great person.

But let's be real, he isn't the first hard working, high character quarterback to step on the field.

At the end of the day, nobody cares if you're a good guy or not. You have to be capable of playing the position. And right now he's not. And he may never be that guy.

I'm rooting for him, but if I had to put money on it, I'd bet against him. He's not going to pan out.

SolidGold
08-03-2011, 11:44 AM
Tebow did not play terrible last year at the end of the season as a rookie. I have to agree w/ Keylime that if Denver starts slow they will put Tebow in for 10-12 games. Might as well see what you have got in him.

If all else fails put him in at RB, he will run harder than either Mcgahee or Moreno.

Sloopy
08-03-2011, 11:45 AM
I think people make that argument because they assume the Broncos are going to suck no matter who the QB is, which is very likely the case.

True, I see where the argument is valid. If your not going to win you might as well at least see IF Tebow is gunna be your guy and if not then move on, but as you say, he will probably end up getting starts anyway once they are out of contention

49erNation85
08-03-2011, 11:56 AM
Why don't you guys think tebow won't any good at QB?Just because of his release timing ?That is bogus look at Rivers his release is more ugly then Tebow IMO.Tebow will be a good QB once given the chance no doubt about it.Not ever QB will have the perfect release when throwing the ball.I just think the whole release throwing motion is all BS.

Jimmy
08-03-2011, 12:03 PM
Why don't you guys think tebow won't any good at QB?Just because of his release timing ?That is bogus look at Rivers his release is more ugly then Tebow IMO.Tebow will be a good QB once given the chance no doubt about it.Not ever QB will have the perfect release when throwing the ball.I just think the whole release throwing motion is all BS.

Tebow can't put the ball where it needs to be at the time it needs to be delivered there in an easy to catch manner. Simple as that.

jrdrylie
08-03-2011, 12:07 PM
Why don't you guys think tebow won't any good at QB?Just because of his release timing ?That is bogus look at Rivers his release is more ugly then Tebow IMO.Tebow will be a good QB once given the chance no doubt about it.Not ever QB will have the perfect release when throwing the ball.I just think the whole release throwing motion is all BS.

Rivers' release is in no way uglier than Tebow's. Rivers has kind of a 3/4 release. Tebow brings the ball all the way down to his waist. He is the only person who I have ever seen with a worse throwing motion than Byron Leftwich. This leads to terrible accuracy.

keylime_5
08-03-2011, 12:08 PM
there's a lot of guys with unorthodox releases, but most of those guys like Philip Rivers and Bernie Kosar have quick releases so they can get the ball out in time. Tebow's release will create enough time for the pass rush to get to him and for DBs to break on his throws. Besides that, it's not just the release. His footwork and accuracy (which go hand in hand) contribute to his very raw and unrefined skills as a passer. You gotta be a pretty damn good passer to make it in the NFL as a starting QB, Tebow has a lot of work to do in that area. He said he was gonna change his throwing motion, and in workouts it looks better, but in the games he has been reverting to his old ugly self with that big long windup. He still has the potential to be great, he's big and strong and motivated and a hard worker who defies the odds, but right now he's not as good of a QB as Orton by a lot.

Sloopy
08-03-2011, 12:12 PM
Why don't you guys think tebow won't any good at QB?Just because of his release timing ?That is bogus look at Rivers his release is more ugly then Tebow IMO.Tebow will be a good QB once given the chance no doubt about it.Not ever QB will have the perfect release when throwing the ball.I just think the whole release throwing motion is all BS.

Are you thinking that we are referring to his spiral? If so, no we are referring to the fact that it takes him longer to release the ball because he holds it at his hip making his motion to throw the ball longer, throwing off timing, telegraphing where he is going with it to DB's and also making it easier for pass rushers to strip the ball from him.

While he has improved this slightly, he still tends to let the ball dip instead of holding it high and tight with his elbows pointed

49erNation85
08-03-2011, 12:12 PM
Yea but even with those mistakes he has on throwing he still could be a descent QB and maybe get them into the play offs or at least win more games then Orton can any day.You guys act like he won't be any good period not even giving him a chance.Specially when last his 4 games he won 3 of them and had good games stats wise.By all means is foot work / throwing motion perfect but he can still throw the ball just fine.It is just a matter of time before he rises for the starting job this next season.

Hurricanes25
08-03-2011, 12:17 PM
Orton gives them a better chance of winning than Tebow does. It's that simple.

Sloopy
08-03-2011, 12:17 PM
Yea but even with those mistakes he has on throwing he still could be a descent QB and maybe get them into the play offs or at least win more games then Orton can any day.You guys act like he won't be any good period not even giving him a chance.Specially when last his 4 games he won 3 of them and had good games stats wise.By all means is foot work / throwing motion perfect but he can still throw the ball just fine.It is just a matter of time before he rises for the starting job this next season.

I know that the wins look good but I remember in particular one of his wins where he threw what should have been an interception in the endzone but it went through the DB's hands and his receiver caught it on the other side while falling. This was more luck than anything else, and I believe it was against the Raiders anyway.

and its not that he cant be a good QB, there is certainly a chance that any QB can change things around and become a good QB. Its just that guys with his type of mechanical problems tend to not be able to turn it around as the mechanical problems are a product of their natural tendencies. Meaning when they aren't focusing on the mechanics with the QB coach and they are out on the field under pressure, they will revert back to the bad mechanics

The Alex
08-03-2011, 12:35 PM
I think the Broncos should start Tebow. Not because I think he's a better quarterback than Orton, but because it'll give them a better shot of landing Andrew Luck.

gpngc
08-03-2011, 12:43 PM
Orton gives them a better chance of winning than Tebow does. It's that simple.

Right now, yes. It is that simple.

Also, the Broncos are using the for-some-reason now neanderthalic logic that a young, raw QB could benefit from a few years learning behind the starter.

Ness
08-03-2011, 12:43 PM
Yes you can. Kyle Orton is not a good QB. He put up inflated stats last year but he was 3-10 (and has won only 5 of his has 23 starts). He even be a better QB than Tebow at this point. But Tebow has far more potential. I also think he would win more games as a starter than Orton because he is more of a playmaker while Orton is no more than a caretaker.

They are going to suck this year. They have no good running backs. They have no rush defense. It doesn't matter who starts this year, Orton or Tebow, they are not making the playoffs or even getting close. Why not see what they have in Tebow. If he sucks, draft Luck/Barkley/Jones next year. If he is good. Fantastic.

That entire Broncos team was lackluster last year. Orton was one of the few bright spots. He had zero help in the run game too. He's not a bad quarterback. Maybe not the kind of guy that can carry an entire team that is mediocre without their quarterback (like Peyton Manning's situation last season), but those guys are extremely rare.

Jimmy
08-03-2011, 12:52 PM
I know that the wins look good but I remember in particular one of his wins where he threw what should have been an interception in the endzone but it went through the DB's hands and his receiver caught it on the other side while falling. This was more luck than anything else, and I believe it was against the Raiders anyway.

and its not that he cant be a good QB, there is certainly a chance that any QB can change things around and become a good QB. Its just that guys with his type of mechanical problems tend to not be able to turn it around as the mechanical problems are a product of their natural tendencies. Meaning when they aren't focusing on the mechanics with the QB coach and they are out on the field under pressure, they will revert back to the bad mechanics

SVzHySlRluA

It was complete luck. One of those plays where the head coach can audibly be heard yelling "NO NO NO" when the ball gets released, and then when the ball is caught, "YES YES YES."

It was pretty much all-pro hand-eye coordination by B-Lloyd and complete mistiming by Stanford Routt. And a world class lame-duck throw.

I could care less what his mechanics look like. I could care less if he gets the ball out as fast as Marino or as slow as molasses. He's not putting the ball where it needs to be, period. There are billions of combinations of release trajectories and angles and ball speeds that can be "put" on a ball to get it to go where it needs to go, and Tebow flat out struggles to get the ball where it needs to be in the NFL. That's all that matters at the end of the day.
Go about 1 minute 22 seconds in.
lMVs_whRO50

Splat
08-03-2011, 01:10 PM
Orton gives them a better chance of winning than Tebow does. It's that simple.

This is pretty much all that needs to be said.

Raiderz4Life
08-03-2011, 01:11 PM
I know that the wins look good but I remember in particular one of his wins where he threw what should have been an interception in the endzone but it went through the DB's hands and his receiver caught it on the other side while falling. This was more luck than anything else, and I believe it was against the Raiders anyway.

and its not that he cant be a good QB, there is certainly a chance that any QB can change things around and become a good QB. Its just that guys with his type of mechanical problems tend to not be able to turn it around as the mechanical problems are a product of their natural tendencies. Meaning when they aren't focusing on the mechanics with the QB coach and they are out on the field under pressure, they will revert back to the bad mechanics

Nope. We went 6-0 in the division.

Sloopy
08-03-2011, 02:10 PM
Nope. We went 6-0 in the division.

Yea I guess that was the one he lost but it was the raiders. guy has a clip of it on the 1st page of this thread, goes right through Routt's hand and Floydd makes the catch while falling

Sloopy
08-03-2011, 02:11 PM
SVzHySlRluA

It was complete luck. One of those plays where the head coach can audibly be heard yelling "NO NO NO" when the ball gets released, and then when the ball is caught, "YES YES YES."

It was pretty much all-pro hand-eye coordination by B-Lloyd and complete mistiming by Stanford Routt. And a world class lame-duck throw.

I could care less what his mechanics look like. I could care less if he gets the ball out as fast as Marino or as slow as molasses. He's not putting the ball where it needs to be, period. There are billions of combinations of release trajectories and angles and ball speeds that can be "put" on a ball to get it to go where it needs to go, and Tebow flat out struggles to get the ball where it needs to be in the NFL. That's all that matters at the end of the day.
Go about 1 minute 22 seconds in.
lMVs_whRO50

Im not sure if your thinking I'm complimenting him here? I was referring to the play as an example of how lucky he got at times in those last 4 games that someone had referred to.

jrdrylie
08-03-2011, 02:13 PM
This is pretty much all that needs to be said.

No it isn't because Kyle Orton does not give them the best chance to win. His last 23 starts he is 5-18. Nothing about that shouts "Kyle Orton gives us the best chance to win." Tebow may not be a polished as a quarterback right now. He may not have read defenses as well right now. But he can make plays that Orton just cannot. Both with his arms and his legs. That previous video, the play that Tebow probably should have thrown a pick... Orton can't make that throw. Had he attempted that, it would have looked like a punt and landed at the 4-yard line. The Broncos are so bad that neither QB will be able to take them to the playoffs. But Orton is a caretaker. He offers zero upside. Tebow, while not as polished, will be able to win a game or two that Orton cannot due to his physical limitations.

bearsfan_51
08-03-2011, 02:28 PM
jrdrylie does raise the relevant point that Orton has become extremely overrated. I blame fantasy football. From a tools standpoint, he simply doesn't have it.

Splat
08-03-2011, 03:10 PM
Nobody is saying Orton is great not even close just that he is better then Timmy.

Monomach
08-03-2011, 03:11 PM
His last 23 starts he is 5-18. Nothing about that shouts

I thought you were better than this.

I know for a fact that you defended Cutler when morons used the same argument.

jrdrylie
08-03-2011, 03:21 PM
I thought you were better than this.

I know for a fact that you defended Cutler when morons used the same argument.

1). Jay Cutler's worst performance in his career over a 23-game period is 9-12. Much better than Orton's 5-18

2). You could take Orton's tools, multiply them by 10, and they still wouldn't be half of Cutler's

Jimmy
08-03-2011, 03:25 PM
Im not sure if your thinking I'm complimenting him here? I was referring to the play as an example of how lucky he got at times in those last 4 games that someone had referred to.

Hell no, I went so far as to say Tebow can't get the ball where it needs to go, and that it was pure luck.

niel89
08-03-2011, 03:42 PM
Tebow needs a lot more time on the bench. When he was drafted people said that he needs at least a couple years to learn and develop in to a nfl QB. Throwing him back in there in his second year won't give you a definitive statement on him. Fans have gotten spoiled with the early success of guys like Roethlisberger, Ryan, and Flacco.

I'm not a crazy Tebow fan, but I like the guy and hope he will be successful, and I think his best opportunity is for him to sit for a good while longer. Orton helps keep him sitting.

I went back and watched his game against Houston. When I saw it live I was pretty impressed at the way he took command and lead a late drive to win the game. When I actually analyzed it, I was very very underwhelmed. I broke down each passing attempt and only came away with him attempting only handful of semi-challenging throws. I have never seen so many screens in a game also. Just a constant stream of RB screens and bubble screens. The completions and yards were there but they were pretty much manufactured. He showed very little in terms of NFL QB passing, not entirely his fault because the game plan used for him was very safe.

bigbluedefense
08-03-2011, 03:56 PM
Tebow simply isn't ready to take over. I don't know if he'll ever be ready.

Everyone knew that Tebow would be a major project. Asking him to start in his 2nd year when a lockout occurred shows the impatience in today's market.

The guy needs at least 3 years of development before he even has a chance of being a decent qb.

I don't think he will be, but if he is to become one, he needs 3 years.

Bengalsrocket
08-03-2011, 06:13 PM
Where do you guys come up with these seemingly arbitrary numbers? Why is 3 years the threshold for Tebow to learn the game?

ElectricEye
08-03-2011, 06:21 PM
I'm going to go ahead and agree with everyone and say this is the right move. Starting Kyle Orton is the best thing for the team. Granted, I'm a bigger Orton guy than most, even though we all know the numbers last year were smoke and mirrors. He's an average guy....and in a league where you can't even find 32 guys capable of starting a year, there's a whole ton of value in that. Niel brings up a very good point about what Tebow did last year too. That was just as much an illusion as what Orton did. The difference between the two is that you can install Orton in a conventional offense and still be competitive. You probably can't with Tebow, based on what we saw.

nepg
08-03-2011, 06:27 PM
I think people make that argument because they assume the Broncos are going to suck no matter who the QB is, which is very likely the case.
I don't see that as being the case. With a good defense (which they should have under Fox), they are right in the mix in the AFC West.

I'd agree that Tebow's late-season numbers were similar to the Tyler Thigpen effect. I do think Tebow showed he has a place at QB in the NFL, though. And I agree with the Broncos if their mindset is to continue to develop him and let him play in certain situations or when the season is essentially over.

ElectricEye
08-03-2011, 06:37 PM
I don't see that as being the case. With a good defense (which they should have under Fox), they are right in the mix in the AFC West.

That's assuming they can sustain the offensive output. That's a fairly big assumption. You have to figure the passing yardage numbers are going to drop with the departure of Josh McDaniel's and they don't exactly have a world class rushing attack to fall back on. John Fox can't just wave a magic wand and fix the defense either. They've got some pieces that should help, progress should be made(maybe even significant progress), but they're transitioning schemes and have a lot of young players. I wouldn't be comfortable projecting them to completely turn it around in just a year.

6 to 8 wins with Orton at the helm isn't inconceivable(optimistic though), maybe 9(very optimistic, with an Oakland collapse) with Oakland falling back a bit, but I can't see them competing with the Chargers or Chiefs.

descendency
08-03-2011, 07:59 PM
Interesting question that has to be asked because of this:

Do you start who the fans want you to start or who gets you wins?

descendency
08-03-2011, 08:00 PM
Where do you guys come up with these seemingly arbitrary numbers? Why is 3 years the threshold for Tebow to learn the game?

I'd say that's the maximum time he has to prove himself. And that number comes from what people feel is the average time a 1st round pick gets to prove himself as a player. (it's also the average NFL career... but that's irrelevant)

Basically, if I draft someone in round 1, I'm giving him 3 years before declaring him a bust.

bearsfan_51
08-03-2011, 08:28 PM
Interesting question that has to be asked because of this:

Do you start who the fans want you to start or who gets you wins?
Fans want their team to win more than anything else.

Raiderz4Life
08-03-2011, 08:40 PM
Just throw Tebow in there and run the wishbone.

Abaddon
08-03-2011, 08:55 PM
Orton is a good QB on a crap team. Denver didn't play a stitch of defense last year. Was there even a HB on the roster? And look at the scrubs he had at WR.

No one prior to him has made Brandon Lloyd look like a #1 WR. With Orton, he leads the league. Lloyd has always flashed, but that's it.


That Tebow TD pass against Oakland, that was unreal. I knew Routt had the ball skills of a converted track guy, but that was an absolutely pathetic play on his part. If Tebow keeps playing like that, he'll set a turnover record.

Brown Leader
08-03-2011, 09:04 PM
Fans want their team to win more than anything else.

Yes but there will always be a significant amount of the fan base that will want to see the new guy, even if the team is competitive. This is a carbon of the Brady Quinn thing in Cleveland where he was drafted the same season Anderson had his breakout year statistically. Main difference is that Orton is more proven than DA and Tebow even less ready than Quinn, which makes this worse. Underlying issue from the FO standpoint and from a serious portion of the fan base, has to be next year's draft. I figure it's why the FO attempted to move Orton and showcase Tebow, whether he was ready or not. Neither will get a fair shake this season, especially Orton. He'll go first, and if they don't win Tebow goes, and they'll manage to lose enough games and be in the hunt for #1.

SchizophrenicBatman
08-03-2011, 10:07 PM
John Fox would start Orton even if Tebow wasn't trash

CC.SD
08-03-2011, 10:52 PM
you play tebow. you do not go into another top 5 pick without knowing what you have, unless the front office has already decided he doesn't have anything anyways. *that* is the only reason starting orton all season makes sense.


Yeah this is basically the entire thing in a single paragraph. If Orton starts, it's pretty clear that Fox has no loyalty to Tebow and has already decided he's nothing, which to be fair is probably true. If Orton plays well enough to stir up the trade market, that's the other possible strategy they could be going with, but they need to get real.

Splat
08-03-2011, 10:53 PM
Start Quinn.

Signed,

A Chiefs fan.

Raiderz4Life
08-03-2011, 11:06 PM
you can go to hell, sir.

My Tebow running the wishbone was a MUCH better idea.

bucfan12
08-03-2011, 11:42 PM
Reports on the NFL Network all say that Orton has outperformed Tebow in camp so far. He did last year as well, as we all know Tebow never earned playing time, it was handed to him.


Orton gives the Broncos the best chance to win, plain and simple. Tebow was always marked as a huge project and needed 2-3 years to develop. I hear Elway is not a fan of Tebow and I think it's showing.

Raiderz4Life
08-03-2011, 11:46 PM
Reports on the NFL Network all say that Orton has outperformed Tebow in camp so far. He did last year as well, as we all know Tebow never earned playing time, it was handed to him.


Orton gives the Broncos the best chance to win, plain and simple. Tebow was always marked as a huge project and needed 2-3 years to develop. I hear Elway is not a fan of Tebow and I think it's showing.

Did you not read njx's rant? haha

yo123
08-03-2011, 11:49 PM
I feel like I'm the only one who didn't think that Tebow played that bad last year. Kyle Orton isn't going to do you any good, and even if Fox/Elway aren't Tebow fans you have to at least let him prove you right/wrong. Either way this team will be picking in the top 10.

Shane P. Hallam
08-04-2011, 12:29 AM
I respect Cecil Lammey's inside info on the Broncos and camp. Here is what he had to say about the front office and Tebow (bare in mind this is a snippet of him addressing Lombardi's comments about Tebow)
www.twitter.com/CecilLammey

"Tebow is very supported by the front office and coaching staff, they know he COULD be special but he has a lot of work to do"

YAYareaRB
08-04-2011, 12:41 AM
i too thought he wasn't as bad as some people on here are making it out to be. part of that is people wanting him to fail. im one of the few people on here that are rooting for the guy. we hate headcases and assholes and at the same time hate guys like tebow who do the right thing all the time. hate him for being him.. its not a act because he was doing the good guy stuff in high school and college.

i laugh at the "better chance to win" argument.. better chance to win?? his "chance" sure worked wonders for them last season.

but then again everybody is a qb analyst on here when 9 times outta 10 they're just repeating **** they hear on tv. lol

Ness
08-04-2011, 02:01 AM
If Orton has another year like he did the last previous two seasons he'll probably get a nice deal from some team looking for a decent starter. Now if the Broncos made the playoffs, should Orton be kept? Would Orton want to stay? All in all I don't see this happening, I'm guessing the most likely scenario is Denver having another losing season while Orton plays okay.

Abaddon
08-04-2011, 02:10 AM
i too thought he wasn't as bad as some people on here are making it out to be. part of that is people wanting him to fail. im one of the few people on here that are rooting for the guy. we hate headcases and assholes and at the same time hate guys like tebow who do the right thing all the time. hate him for being him.. its not a act because he was doing the good guy stuff in high school and college.

i laugh at the "better chance to win" argument.. better chance to win?? his "chance" sure worked wonders for them last season.

but then again everybody is a qb analyst on here when 9 times outta 10 they're just repeating **** they hear on tv. lol

Tebow is just a different kind of head case. I wouldn't want him anymore than I'd want Pac-Man Jones.

yo123
08-04-2011, 02:20 AM
Tebow is just a different kind of head case. I wouldn't want him anymore than I'd want Pac-Man Jones.


NFLDC. Where being a pretty boy religious QB is just as bad as strip club gun fights.

YAYareaRB
08-04-2011, 02:22 AM
NFLDC. Where being a pretty boy religious QB is just as bad as strip club gun fights.

not just NFLDC.. this sums up the whole world.

descendency
08-04-2011, 03:41 AM
Tebow is just a different kind of head case. I wouldn't want him anymore than I'd want Pac-Man Jones.

Halsey, is that you?

Ness
08-04-2011, 04:29 AM
NFLDC. Where being a pretty boy religious QB is just as bad as strip club gun fights.

LOL. Hilarious.

Nalej
08-04-2011, 09:44 AM
Just start njx this year... take Luck next year... enjoy a playoff birth the year after that.

You're welcome, Denver.

ElectricEye
08-04-2011, 10:11 AM
I'm not rooting for Tebow to fail at all. I just don't think it's good for a team, longterm even, to start a guy when he's the third best at his position in camp. Early reports are that Brady Quinn is out performing Tebow by a margin significant enough that we're hearing about it. It's a tricky situation. I can see both sides for sure. The Broncos do need to find out what they have in Tebow sooner rather than later. Prime candidate to be in the top five to ten picks in the draft again next year, better to know what direction you're going in sooner rather than later.

I'm just one of those "win and the rest falls into place" kind of guys. When you create a "next year" kind of culture, you tend to stay in it. Based on what I saw out of Tebow at the end of last year, he doesn't give the Broncos the best chance to go ahead with that.

jth1331
08-04-2011, 11:00 AM
Its clear 99% of this board doesn't understand the Broncos, at all.
Saying Orton gives the Broncos the best chance to win? Orton winning? HA! He's no better than Pennington, Henne, or whoever else you want to throw in there. He got gaudy stats passing the rock being behind, and sucked in the red zone/4th quarter/3rd down.
What I saw from Tebow last year was a guy who could be something special, and I really wanted the Broncos to start him this year to see who they had. A QB of the future, or a guy who won't make it. Starting Orton means we most likely don't get to see if Tebow is that guy, and the Broncos will pick in the top 10 with their roster. So then we go into 2012 not knowing what we have at QB as Orton will walk, Tebow still on the roster and probably don't take a QB in the 1st.

yo123
08-04-2011, 11:06 AM
is tebow really 'pretty'?

Maybe I should have said golden boy.

Nalej
08-04-2011, 11:21 AM
'i could drop back and throw... eh. **** it. they'd probably let me get sacked anyways. god i hate this team. can i just retire now? oh jesus christ... really, coach? *that's* the play you called? can you hear me audibly rolling my eyes? and give the ball to moreno? ever? are you kidding? **** that. audible.'

See, you have the makings of a leader. Can someone say championship?!

Raiderz4Life
08-04-2011, 11:41 AM
'i could drop back and throw... eh. **** it. they'd probably let me get sacked anyways. god i hate this team. can i just retire now? oh jesus christ... really, coach? *that's* the play you called? can you hear me audibly rolling my eyes? and give the ball to moreno? ever? are you kidding? **** that. audible.'

You'd be better off going QB sneak...QB draw....QB naked boot.....and throwing the ball at the center's head catching the rebound and running.......man i should be an OC

jrdrylie
08-04-2011, 11:42 AM
is tebow really 'pretty'?

I was a Senior in high school in the Jacksonville area when Tebow first started getting exposure. I went to college in Florida two years ahead of Tebow, so I was right in the thick of the Tebow-Hype. He is a pretty boy. The ladies in Jacksonville love him.

GET LOOSE
08-04-2011, 12:18 PM
Kyle orton is not that bad of a qb hes played pretty well and tebow just doesnt have what it takes to be an nfl qb. I definitely think this is the right decision

YAYareaRB
08-04-2011, 12:24 PM
Kyle orton is not that bad of a qb hes played pretty well and tebow just doesnt have what it takes to be an nfl qb. I definitely think this is the right decision

what does it take?

boy this thread is becoming a broken record

Raiderz4Life
08-04-2011, 01:08 PM
what does it take?

boy this thread is becoming a broken record

At some point you got to believe they're trolling

M.O.T.H.
08-04-2011, 02:42 PM
Sigh. I just want to see some Tebow.

The Alex
08-04-2011, 02:55 PM
ier86MdW2OI

I feel this is a very accurate breakdown of Tebow as an NFL player. That said, I think the Broncos should start him just to get this crap over. Once everyone realizes Tebow can't cut it, they'll be clamoring for Orton. Sure, the Broncos will lose more games this way but it's not like they were going to do anything remotely relevant this season anyway.

Raiderz4Life
08-04-2011, 03:05 PM
lol Blame McDaniels for all this. But the Broncos aren't winning anything...doesn't matter who they put at QB. The chance Orton gives the Broncos to win over Tebow's is maybe like...Orton gives em a 20.1% chance and Tebow a 20%. Not a big difference.

The Alex
08-04-2011, 03:32 PM
lol Blame McDaniels for all this. But the Broncos aren't winning anything...doesn't matter who they put at QB. The chance Orton gives the Broncos to win over Tebow's is maybe like...Orton gives em a 20.1% chance and Tebow a 20%. Not a big difference.

Of course, Josh McDaniels was a complete disaster in Denver. He did an unprecedented amount of damage in two years. I feel the need to recap his reign of terror:

The Broncos traded their 2010 1st round pick during the 2009 draft so they could move up and select Alphonso Smith in the 2nd round. Then, right before the start of the 2010 season, they traded Alphonso Smith to the Lions for Dan Gronkowski, a tight end that was selected in the 7th round of the 2009 draft. Essentially, they traded away a 1st round pick for 7th round backup tight end that had a grand total of 8 catches this past season. Meanwhile, in Detroit, Alphonso Smith is an adequate corner, not worth a first round pick but he's certainly better than a backup tight end that gives you nothing.

On top of that moronic mismanagement of draft picks, the Broncos traded away a 2nd round pick, a 3rd round pick, and a 4th round pick to select Tim Tebow in the first round. A project player with possibly the worst throwing mechanics of any quarterback selected in the first round of the past ten years and with absolutely no experience in anything resembling an NFL offense that requires him to make reads. Sure, the potential is there but it is not worth three different draft picks and certainly not worth a first round pick. During this same draft, he selected Demaryius Thomas while Dez Bryant was still on the board. Thomas could end up being a decent wide receiver but there is no way in hell he is a better prospect than Bryant.

To further add to his idiotic moves, McDaniels traded away Peyton Hillis for Brady Quinn. The idea at the time was that the Broncos could develop Quinn as a potential starter but that was negated when they traded up for Tim Tebow. I realize that Peyton Hillis wasn't a stud running back in Denver but he showed flashes of something special during his rookie season in 2008. Instead of trying to develop that further, McDaniels dumped him for a guy that never saw the field last year. As you know, Hillis went on to have an outstanding season in Cleveland.

Let's not forget his idiocy of drafting Robert Ayers to play in a 3-4 defense. Robert Ayers looked like a solid outside linebacker prospect for a 4-3 but McDaniels thought he would work better as an edge rusher. In the past two seasons, Ayers has a total of two sacks.

McDaniels short regime in Denver is the most destructive by any coach or GM in recent memory. In a little under two years, he was able to turn Jay Cutler, Peyton Hillis, Brandon Marshall and Tony Scheffler into Tim Tebow, Knowshon Moreno, Demaryius Thomas and Dan Gronkowski. I can't even begin to wrap my mind around how that is possible.

Honestly Denver fans, the fact you didn't chase this guy out of town with torches and pitchforks astounds me.

ElectricEye
08-04-2011, 03:53 PM
I think the entire league learned something from giving that much control to a guy as green as he was, as well as the Kiffin thing(although how much of that was Kiffin and how much of it was Al Davis we'll never know). Josh McDaniel's is a real good offensive coordinator. A lot of people want to distance themselves from that because of how poorly things went in Denver, but I really still believe he is. But giving a guy in his early 30's that much control over the organization is just asinine. Hell, that level of control should be a rare thing in the first place. You should have to earn that with a sterling track record and some form of involvement with personnel before, which McDaniel's didn't have in New England.

Saints-Tigers
08-04-2011, 03:57 PM
I thought Josh McDaniels overachieved with the Broncos.

Then again, they had talent, and plenty of pieces to add more talent, and he butchered that.

Raiderz4Life
08-04-2011, 04:00 PM
I think the entire league learned something from giving that much control to a guy as green as he was, as well as the Kiffin thing(although how much of that was Kiffin and how much of it was Al Davis we'll never know). Josh McDaniel's is a real good offensive coordinator. A lot of people want to distance themselves from that because of how poorly things went in Denver, but I really still believe he is. But giving a guy in his early 30's that much control over the organization is just asinine. Hell, that level of control should be a rare thing in the first place. You should have to earn that with a sterling track record and some form of involvement with personnel before, which McDaniel's didn't have in New England.

I think the Raiders deal was more Al not wanting or not being used to someone else having some power.

ElectricEye
08-04-2011, 05:58 PM
josh mcdaniels was an abysmal play-caller in denver. his offense was an abortion on the field, and while this has something to do with his players, it also had a lot to do with the fact that he was unable to recognize that running 47 te screens and hb screens a game wasn't ever going to get it done. his rushing 'attack' was a joke. and had it not been for brandon lloyd suddenly turning into superman, his passing attack would've been a joke as well.

josh mcdaniels gets far too much credit, imo, for being a name attached to one of the best offenses i've ever seen. and that even includes when cassell was there. in my opinion, this is not mike shanahan going to the raiders, failing, and ending up as a good coach elsewhere.

I completely agree about not being able to recognize and accept what he was doing wasn't working out. He coached arrogantly. Really think that plays into the lack of experience factor. I'm just not willing to call him a bad coach based on what I saw when he was here. Not yet, anyway.

With a better quarterback(like I don't know...Jay Cutler maybe) thing could have been very different in Denver and those numbers might have actually gotten better and meant something. As much as I like Orton, he's one of those guys that's an absolute reflection of the talent around him. Let's be honest here too, throwing a bunch of screens is probably the best way to try and get by with the type of personnel Denver brought in, which again, is completely on him. Brandon Lloyd had a real great season, but I don't think it's coincidental that he did that under McDaniels either. Wouldn't be surprised to see him come back down to earth a little bit this season, even though he does have quite a bit of talent.

But yeah, I'm really not ready to write him off yet completely. It's true he benefited tremendously from having the Brady/Moss connection in his back pocket. I don't think anyone can really argue otherwise. I really think there was a lot more to that offense than that though.

There's one thing absolutely clear about McDaniels though; he needs to stop buying into his own hype. You could just tell from the way he did things in Denver that he embraced the entire "offensive genius" crap.

Timbathia
08-04-2011, 06:22 PM
IF the Broncos can get a semblance of a running game going (I know, big IF), then Orton actually does give the Broncos a much better chance of winning IMO. Orton is atrocious under pressure, which he was a lot last year due to an inexperienced o-line and non-existent running game. Most of his highlight passes came off play-action (which is astounding that teams bit on). When he just dropped back he was usually in trouble. IF a healthier Clady and more seasoned Walton and Beadles can play better, and IF Moreno can be taught how to hit a hole, then Orton will suddenly look extremely reasonable as a QB. If these things dont happen, then they may as well just play Tebow.

Tebow looked okay last year in that offense as he can deal with the awful o-line and running game better by using his feet (I actually think Orton's feet are just painted on).

jth1331
08-04-2011, 07:57 PM
Of course, Josh McDaniels was a complete disaster in Denver. He did an unprecedented amount of damage in two years. I feel the need to recap his reign of terror:

The Broncos traded their 2010 1st round pick during the 2009 draft so they could move up and select Alphonso Smith in the 2nd round. Then, right before the start of the 2010 season, they traded Alphonso Smith to the Lions for Dan Gronkowski, a tight end that was selected in the 7th round of the 2009 draft. Essentially, they traded away a 1st round pick for 7th round backup tight end that had a grand total of 8 catches this past season. Meanwhile, in Detroit, Alphonso Smith is an adequate corner, not worth a first round pick but he's certainly better than a backup tight end that gives you nothing.

On top of that moronic mismanagement of draft picks, the Broncos traded away a 2nd round pick, a 3rd round pick, and a 4th round pick to select Tim Tebow in the first round. A project player with possibly the worst throwing mechanics of any quarterback selected in the first round of the past ten years and with absolutely no experience in anything resembling an NFL offense that requires him to make reads. Sure, the potential is there but it is not worth three different draft picks and certainly not worth a first round pick. During this same draft, he selected Demaryius Thomas while Dez Bryant was still on the board. Thomas could end up being a decent wide receiver but there is no way in hell he is a better prospect than Bryant.

To further add to his idiotic moves, McDaniels traded away Peyton Hillis for Brady Quinn. The idea at the time was that the Broncos could develop Quinn as a potential starter but that was negated when they traded up for Tim Tebow. I realize that Peyton Hillis wasn't a stud running back in Denver but he showed flashes of something special during his rookie season in 2008. Instead of trying to develop that further, McDaniels dumped him for a guy that never saw the field last year. As you know, Hillis went on to have an outstanding season in Cleveland.

Let's not forget his idiocy of drafting Robert Ayers to play in a 3-4 defense. Robert Ayers looked like a solid outside linebacker prospect for a 4-3 but McDaniels thought he would work better as an edge rusher. In the past two seasons, Ayers has a total of two sacks.

McDaniels short regime in Denver is the most destructive by any coach or GM in recent memory. In a little under two years, he was able to turn Jay Cutler, Peyton Hillis, Brandon Marshall and Tony Scheffler into Tim Tebow, Knowshon Moreno, Demaryius Thomas and Dan Gronkowski. I can't even begin to wrap my mind around how that is possible.

Honestly Denver fans, the fact you didn't chase this guy out of town with torches and pitchforks astounds me.

Traded away a "franchise" QB for 2 1st round picks and a 3rd rounder.
Took a freakin RB at pick 12 that was never regarded as elite
Took a questionable DE/OLB at pick 18
Traded a future 1st for a midget corner
Traded up to select a blocking TE(Quinn)
Traded for Brady Quinn
Traded Brandon Marshall for picks(not a bad thing)
Took Thomas, traded up for Tebow

What gets me is he traded away star talent and ended up picking their replacements in the draft, so instead of fixing the freakin defense like everybody knew they needed, he was tweaking an offense that didn't need to be.

Namy
08-04-2011, 08:42 PM
Let Tebow play.

People keep mentioning how Orton can "manage the game." I'm fully confident that Tebow can "manage" a game too. Tebow can throw screens and make the short passes. He can give you some runs on the side, too. The coaches don't have to open the entire playbook if they start him. Tebow can't do everything that Orton can. And that's perfectly fine. Let him do what he does best until he develops into a better pocket passer.

Also, for all the talk about inaccuracy and poor decision making... he was a ROOKIE last year on a team with ZERO run support. For goodness sake, the transition to the NFL is tough for EVERY rookie QB, not just Tim Tebow.

Give him a shot. Tim needs to be given the reins to be effective. And to echo what NJX said, if Tim gets us only 3 or 4 wins, Orton will probably have given us 4 or 5 wins. That kind of margin means nothing to me.

descendency
08-04-2011, 08:59 PM
what does it take?

Accuracy. He has had tons of trouble hitting men in stride.

Decision making. He looks slow in practice and has trouble making a progression.

YAYareaRB
08-04-2011, 09:00 PM
Accuracy. He has had tons of trouble hitting men in stride.

Decision making. He looks slow in practice and has trouble making a progression.

things that can be worked on. believe it or not nobody is finished product in this league. but lets just continue to pretend to be analysts

YAYareaRB
08-04-2011, 09:02 PM
let me go on record saying i dont think tim tebow should be starting. but its ******* hilarious seeing people act like they know what they're talking about or what they know what the crew in denver are thinking.

ElectricEye
08-04-2011, 09:07 PM
It's a message board.

CC.SD
08-04-2011, 09:39 PM
Of course, Josh McDaniels was a complete disaster in Denver. He did an unprecedented amount of damage in two years. I feel the need to recap his reign of terror:

The Broncos traded their 2010 1st round pick during the 2009 draft so they could move up and select Alphonso Smith in the 2nd round. Then, right before the start of the 2010 season, they traded Alphonso Smith to the Lions for Dan Gronkowski, a tight end that was selected in the 7th round of the 2009 draft. Essentially, they traded away a 1st round pick for 7th round backup tight end that had a grand total of 8 catches this past season. Meanwhile, in Detroit, Alphonso Smith is an adequate corner, not worth a first round pick but he's certainly better than a backup tight end that gives you nothing.

On top of that moronic mismanagement of draft picks, the Broncos traded away a 2nd round pick, a 3rd round pick, and a 4th round pick to select Tim Tebow in the first round. A project player with possibly the worst throwing mechanics of any quarterback selected in the first round of the past ten years and with absolutely no experience in anything resembling an NFL offense that requires him to make reads. Sure, the potential is there but it is not worth three different draft picks and certainly not worth a first round pick. During this same draft, he selected Demaryius Thomas while Dez Bryant was still on the board. Thomas could end up being a decent wide receiver but there is no way in hell he is a better prospect than Bryant.

To further add to his idiotic moves, McDaniels traded away Peyton Hillis for Brady Quinn. The idea at the time was that the Broncos could develop Quinn as a potential starter but that was negated when they traded up for Tim Tebow. I realize that Peyton Hillis wasn't a stud running back in Denver but he showed flashes of something special during his rookie season in 2008. Instead of trying to develop that further, McDaniels dumped him for a guy that never saw the field last year. As you know, Hillis went on to have an outstanding season in Cleveland.

Let's not forget his idiocy of drafting Robert Ayers to play in a 3-4 defense. Robert Ayers looked like a solid outside linebacker prospect for a 4-3 but McDaniels thought he would work better as an edge rusher. In the past two seasons, Ayers has a total of two sacks.

McDaniels short regime in Denver is the most destructive by any coach or GM in recent memory. In a little under two years, he was able to turn Jay Cutler, Peyton Hillis, Brandon Marshall and Tony Scheffler into Tim Tebow, Knowshon Moreno, Demaryius Thomas and Dan Gronkowski. I can't even begin to wrap my mind around how that is possible.

Honestly Denver fans, the fact you didn't chase this guy out of town with torches and pitchforks astounds me.

this post is painful just to read, what a legacy.

descendency
08-04-2011, 09:54 PM
things that can be worked on. believe it or not nobody is finished product in this league. but lets just continue to pretend to be analysts

I'm not pretending to be an analyst. I'm just telling you what analyst say he's struggled with. If you want links, I'll give you some.

YAYareaRB
08-04-2011, 10:12 PM
I'm not pretending to be an analyst. I'm just telling you what analyst say he's struggled with. If you want links, I'll give you some.

im not talking about you in particular.. i've been saying that before you posted.

im mainly getting at the first post of this thread. apologies if you thought i was attacking you

49erNation85
08-05-2011, 12:07 AM
Oh just get over people.Most of you hate Tebow any how so why does it matter.I would love to see him start and prove most of you wrong about him rising in the league if can who knows maybe he can.I honestly don't think his throwing or foot work is all that messed as you people think.Sure it may be messy but not horribly bad.I'm with most of you who think he should be given a chance from the get go.On a finale note we should be enjoying his playing style and passion for the game instead of trying to break him down like he will never ever ever start in this league.

JUST LET THE GUY START!

Ness
08-05-2011, 12:11 AM
Let Tebow play.

People keep mentioning how Orton can "manage the game." I'm fully confident that Tebow can "manage" a game too. Tebow can throw screens and make the short passes. He can give you some runs on the side, too. The coaches don't have to open the entire playbook if they start him. Tebow can't do everything that Orton can. And that's perfectly fine. Let him do what he does best until he develops into a better pocket passer.

Also, for all the talk about inaccuracy and poor decision making... he was a ROOKIE last year on a team with ZERO run support. For goodness sake, the transition to the NFL is tough for EVERY rookie QB, not just Tim Tebow.

Give him a shot. Tim needs to be given the reins to be effective. And to echo what NJX said, if Tim gets us only 3 or 4 wins, Orton will probably have given us 4 or 5 wins. That kind of margin means nothing to me.

Well it's John Fox's team now. He isn't obligated to do anything. He has to play the best player he feels will give him the best chance to win. Not the one the fans want to see because they're simply frustrated at losing. Apparenlty Orton has looked better in practice than Tebow has. Start the guy that has looked better in camp, if he falters as the season goes on try your backup.

Ness
08-05-2011, 12:13 AM
things that can be worked on. believe it or not nobody is finished product in this league. but lets just continue to pretend to be analysts

Well the coaches may not think Tebow is worth starting over Orton. Would you go against their word too?

ElectricEye
08-05-2011, 12:20 AM
Oh just get over people.Most of you hate Tebow any how so why does it matter.I would love to see him start and prove most of you wrong about him rising in the league if can who knows maybe he can.I honestly don't think his throwing or foot work is all that messed as you people think.Sure it may be messy but not horribly bad.I'm with most of you who think he should be given a chance from the get go.On a finale note we should be enjoying his playing style and passion for the game instead of trying to break him down like he will never ever ever start in this league.

JUST LET THE GUY START!

>say something objective and fair
>OH U GUYS JUST HATE TEBOW


Cool. I haven't seen one thing in this thread that says "oh, **** tebow because he sucks". It's more "Tebow didn't do as well as the numbers said last year and doesn't look like he gives his team the best chance to win". Which is being echoed by what we're hearing from most people in Broncos camp. That's totally just "hating Tebow".

I love it when people do this. No disrespect to YAY either, but that "are you an analyst" thing is absolute ****. Mark Schlereth is an "analyst". I would completely have no problem taking some random person on the internet's opinion over his provided it was well constructed and backed up. Granted, there's an obvious line, but still.

Plus, that kind of defies the whole point of a discussion board. We're here to talk football, not resubmit we've heard other people say. By definition, you could call that a big fat collective of people "pretending to be analyst" since we're trying to break down and analyze things via conversation. I agree it's crap when people pretend to know what an organization is thinking, but we've flat out heard from beat guys that Orton is beating Tebow out and that Tebow is skipping passes.

I suppose this all plays into the nature of the quarterback position and the media attention Tebow got in college. If Tebow was an average collegian defensive end that was battling for playing time, nobody would care about it. Not the same way, anyway. But because he was such a media figure in college, people feel the need to "defend him" instead of evaluate where he's at. People also go out of there way to beat the guy up a bit, but that's all a part of the same divisiveness anyway. I think that whole thing is the stupidest part of all.


God damn, I hate this stuff.

Ness
08-05-2011, 12:25 AM
Right. Why would I have a reason to hate Tebow? Because of the media attention he got? That's stupid. Especially since I don't even watch that much college football, nor has he give anyone a reason to hate him. I'm just looking at the situation logically. He hasn't looked as great as Orton has in camp, John Fox is a new coach that isn't obligated to start Tebow just because he's Tebow, and you should go with the player that gives you the best chance to win games. Right now that guy seems to be Orton. It's not like Tebow won't have chance to shine or win a starting gig at some point in his career.

descendency
08-05-2011, 01:55 AM
I agree with njx. There is no way to win in Denver right now. Trade Orton and see what Tebow has. If he totally sucks it up and you go 3-13 or worse, grab Luck/Barkeley/Jones.

Denver won't be better than 6-10. That division is actually pretty good right now.

YAYareaRB
08-05-2011, 02:36 AM
to answer Ness, i just said in a previous post that i dont think tebow should start. theres obviously things we dont know like for instance, how the coaches see tebow in THEIR eyes. im just pointing out a few things that irritate me on here.

to electric eye, no disrespect taken. im not praising analysts. im actually attacking them. some people on here will damn near copy and paste what these people on tv are saying. the broken record effect has taken a toll on my nerves. "tebow doesn't have what it takes" yeah we heard the first 22 times.. how bout some actual insight? if you wanna analyze, spread your knowledge with the rest of us. if you want to just reiterate what the last 20 guys said, save it for twitter.. after all, this is a message board

Ness
08-05-2011, 02:55 AM
I agree with njx. There is no way to win in Denver right now. Trade Orton and see what Tebow has. If he totally sucks it up and you go 3-13 or worse, grab Luck/Barkeley/Jones.

Denver won't be better than 6-10. That division is actually pretty good right now.

Well going into each season you have to play your best players. You can't just say "Oh well if this doesn't work out we'll just tank the season and whatever". Guys work way too hard to deserve that. Orton is looking the best in camp right now so you go with him. Best case scenario the team makes the playoffs and Orton plays great. Maybe a deal can be worked out. If not, Orton leaves and you still have Tebow. But to trade him now when he's the guy that looks the best in camp isn't smart. Tebow must be looking pretty bad to force them to stick with Orton who only has one year left on his contract that is fairly hefty in price.

Not to mention the draft is just a roll of the dice regardless. You can't just assume Luck or Barkley is going to save your franchise.

Ness
08-05-2011, 07:06 AM
on the other hand, it's near fact at this point that *not* having a proper qb dooms your franchise.

Right...which means you should play the best person on your roster. For the Broncos that is apparently Orton.

YAYareaRB
08-05-2011, 11:09 AM
Right...which means you should play the best person on your roster. For the Broncos that is apparently Orton.

i dont think anyone should be disputing that, at this point.

Raiderz4Life
08-05-2011, 01:11 PM
This horse has been beaten to death...beaten while dead...beaten back to zombie life...and beaten to death again.

Raiderz4Life
08-05-2011, 01:16 PM
which, realistically, should suit a raiders fan just fine. beating horses, that is.

http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/n551/wrestlerj91/funny-celebrity-pictures-i-see-what-you-did-there.jpg

bucfan12
08-05-2011, 01:32 PM
http://rotoworld.com/player/nfl/5096/tim-tebow

I think little Timmy needs to quit crying and learn that the starting job isn't going to be handed to him. Orton is clearly outperforming him in the competition and he's frustrated that the competition isn't traded.

Look, I know the Broncos are clearly in a rebuilding year, but if Orton clrealy is the better option in camp, don't trade him. You don't give up on the season before Pre-season actually starts. If they can't win with Orton, then look to trade him before week 6 and then start Tebow and see what you have in him. Right now, the AFC West isn't a strong division and as you can see with KC and TB last year, they came out of no where and surprised many teams. Give Orton a shot.

And Tebow, quit crying about not being handed the job. That's what it seems like when I read this. You're in the NFL now and you have to outperform your competition to get on the field.

sbh15
08-05-2011, 01:37 PM
all of the talk about how 'under-rated' orton is is really starting to make him out as much better than he actually is

Monomach
08-05-2011, 01:54 PM
which, realistically, should suit a raiders fan just fine. beating horses, that is.

I heart this post.

nrk
08-05-2011, 04:12 PM
Someone mentioned Brady Quinn is ahead of Tebow in the depth chart, is this true? That's pretty funny.

Even if Orton is starting and they do bad as everyone is projecting, Tebow will be put in during some part of the season. Might as well go with your best shot at winning first. Surprising things can happen, like the Bengals sweeping the AFC North.

San Diego Chicken
08-05-2011, 04:18 PM
Right now the trade market for Orton is cold. Come trade deadline, his value could be driven upward depending on what happens around the league, injury, etc. Besides, Fox & Elway are in their first year and trying to build credibility in the locker room. You can't just say the hell with competition and start an inferior quarterback who lost the job coming out of training camp. That sends a very negative message throughout your organization. The only way you can start Tebow is if he tears it up in the preseason, and it's still a longshot and unlikely.