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View Full Version : Most impressive rookie QBs so far.....


FUNBUNCHER
08-14-2011, 07:24 AM
I was wrong about Gabbert and his downfield accuracy. He looks like a stud in the making.

Dalton is going to be a solid pro. Cam has no problems hanging in the pocket and doing work.

Mallett should have been the first QB taken or at least in the discussion.

All these guys look like QBs teams can build offenses around for a decade, based on early impressions IMO.
With the level of QB play in the NFL ascending, what's going to separate all these franchise type guys??

Winning. Championships.

In five years, I think there will be more good to great QBs than at any other time in the modern history of the NFL. I know it sounds crazy, but I've never seen this much potential league wide talent at the position.

Forget the truly elite guys, count how many QBs are simply 'good' to 'very good'.

Matthew Jones
08-14-2011, 07:48 AM
In order of how much they impressed me:

1. Jake Locker

2. Ryan Mallett

3. Christian Ponder

4. Blaine Gabbert

5. Cam Newton

6. Andy Dalton

7. Colin Kaepernick

8. Ricky Stanzi

FUNBUNCHER
08-14-2011, 07:56 AM
Locker was impressive too, forgot about him(!!).

descendency
08-14-2011, 08:07 AM
Cam Newton impressed me in what little I saw. I think he would benefit tons from a real offseason.

Mallett and Locker both looked like top notch QBs.

SeanTaylorRIP
08-14-2011, 08:25 AM
I would start Newton over Clausen right now w/o hesitation. Newton's intermediate-mid range accuracy is a work in progress however he can throw a pretty deep ball and can hit his tight ends and check downs so given he has Steve Smith for the deep balls and Olsen and Shockey underneath with the monster duo run game he can do well even as a rookie. Between Naane and LaFell one should take that #2 spot as that big underneath WR. Also didn't they sign Darvin Adams? He should have a good rapport with Cam.

jrdrylie
08-14-2011, 08:28 AM
Looks like people are really jumping to quick conclusions, especially with Mallett. These guys have gone through a week of practice and about a quarter of play, yet we are already saying they are going to be solid pros who you can build around for a decade.

As for Mallett, did he put up great numbers? Of course. But he did it against a 3rd string defense. And theye weren't third-stringers from a good defense. They were third-stringers from on of the five leadt talented defenses in the league.

SeanTaylorRIP
08-14-2011, 08:50 AM
Looks like people are really jumping to quick conclusions, especially with Mallett. These guys have gone through a week of practice and about a quarter of play, yet we are already saying they are going to be solid pros who you can build around for a decade.

As for Mallett, did he put up great numbers? Of course. But he did it against a 3rd string defense. And theye weren't third-stringers from a good defense. They were third-stringers from on of the five leadt talented defenses in the league.

True but there are certain things about players that we wanted to see in a real gave environment for example Gabbert's deep ball, Locker's accuracy, and for Cam even coming out of center. True no one should be making any sort of assumptions off of preseason ball especially for guys like Ponder who was the 3rd QB off the bench, however we can infer based off the small things we see. The only 2 things I feel confident in making assumptions with this early on is that Kaep is in no way ready to be an NFL QB anytime soon, and the Bengals will have a lousy year with Dalton who will fail to utilize AJ Green to his full potential.

shylo3716
08-14-2011, 09:19 AM
What about Tyrod, no love?

M.O.T.H.
08-14-2011, 09:24 AM
Newton is obviously a work in progress, but he looks like he'd be fine playing as a rookie. He just really needs to work on that footwork. The majority of his bad throws came when he was tossing it off his back foot, or when his feet were just in an awkward position. His release point also suffered, which lead to some low throws.

I just hope he doesnt forget who he is exactly...I mean, he looks the part of a pocket passer, he stands tall in there and he has a rocket arm. But this is a player who ran for 1400 yards and 20 Tds last year. It didnt look like he had any interest in escaping the pocket in this first game. Maybe that was by design or order, but he should play into his strengths.

But yeah, they're going to have to find him some WRs in the long run, but I think he's going to be just fine. That said, dude is a major douchebag. lol. His post game interview with Rachel Nichols just further supported the fact that he's an ass. And his sideline antics dont help matters. But I love the talent and I do believe he's willing to put the work in to get better.

General Zod
08-14-2011, 09:45 AM
Frazier said Ponder going to get some time with the 2nd string next week, and then with the starters the week after. So Im going to hold off any real judgement till I see more. But overall considering he was running for his life on every play, he didnt look to bad at all.

NIN1984
08-14-2011, 09:50 AM
Mallet looked good. I bet Pats will end up getting a high draft pick for him in a year or two. Locker looked solid too.

bucfan12
08-14-2011, 09:56 AM
Listen, Mallet looked phenomenal and talent wise, yes he should have been in the discussion for the top pick. He has the makings to be top starter in this league, comparable to Drew Bledsoe, only with a stronger arm. However, his character was and is a big concern. If it's just maturity, then Belichick can mold him into a leader, but I remember in pre-draft workouts, GMs and coaches all said he's all about him and cocky.

Listen, some of these guys look good right now, but throw Cam Newton in there week 1, it's going to be A LOT different. Teams aren't throwing there defensive packages, blitz, zone coverages, and all of that crap at ya. Why do you think Rex Grossman looked so good? The Steelers weren't showing or doing anything that they normally would throw at ya.

It's preseason, and the only thing I look for is how the first/2nd team units of each team perform.

wordofi
08-14-2011, 10:03 AM
Kaepernick looks like a disaster in the making. He holds on to the ball way too long. There were times when there were multiple open targets (right in front of him), and he just wouldn't throw them the ball.

wordofi
08-14-2011, 10:04 AM
Listen, Mallet looked phenomenal and talent wise, yes he should have been in the discussion for the top pick. He has the makings to be top starter in this league, comparable to Drew Bledsoe, only with a stronger arm. However, his character was and is a big concern. If it's just maturity, then Belichick can mold him into a leader, but I remember in pre-draft workouts, GMs and coaches all said he's all about him and cocky.

Listen, some of these guys look good right now, but throw Cam Newton in there week 1, it's going to be A LOT different. Teams aren't throwing there defensive packages, blitz, zone coverages, and all of that crap at ya. Why do you think Rex Grossman looked so good? The Steelers weren't showing or doing anything that they normally would throw at ya.

It's preseason, and the only thing I look for is how the first/2nd team units of each team perform.

I feel sorry for Colin Kaepernick then.

bucfan12
08-14-2011, 10:06 AM
It's his first career game ever. He's got the smarts and physical tools to be a starter in this league. He's just a guy that needs time to adjust.

proshoota25
08-14-2011, 10:48 AM
honestly, we need more games to start forming opinions. if these guys can succeed in preseason game 3, then we may be able to hype them up. but for now, against backups and bland base defenses, they honestly should be doing "somewhat" well

ElectricEye
08-14-2011, 10:52 AM
Locker looked quite good. The throw down the field was a gusty, quick read and a real well positioned ball on a play that should have been dead to rights. He stayed with it and made something great happen with his athletic ability. Put the ball right in the place where it needed to be too. His best throws still came outside of the pocket, but Vick and Aaron Rodgers showed that you can do that in the NFL these days. He still needs some work as far as ball placement goes, but he lead his receivers to the ball pretty well last night, with the exception of the throw Cook(I think it was Cook, anyway) had to go up and get.

Mallet did well. Extremely poised and confident within the pocket. The defense even forced him to move his feet a little bit and he was able to avoid the rush, which was a big time knock on him coming out. I still find the guy hard to root for for a variety of reasons, but he looks like he has more than a fair shot to be a starter for someone down the road.

Gabbert looked pretty average. I think there's a lot he needs to work on from a footwork perspective and learning to play within the pocket. He made a few nice throws down the field early, but after some early success he looked content to check it down. The number one thing I picked up though is that he HAS to get the ball out quicker than he does, especially against the blitz. He left some easy completions on the field if he had reacted quicker to what was happening. I'll give him a bit of a pass given how young he is and how it appears that the Jaguars were just giving him two read plays to get him comfortable, but he doesn't have the look of an NFL starter right now. That's fine given that it's like two weeks into training camp and the first pre-season game.

Babylon
08-14-2011, 10:52 AM
Frazier said Ponder going to get some time with the 2nd string next week, and then with the starters the week after. So Im going to hold off any real judgement till I see more. But overall considering he was running for his life on every play, he didnt look to bad at all.

I thought he looked good but it will be a year sitting behind the starter and that's probably a good thing. They all need to slow the game down a little and eventually working with the first stringers should help in that department.

I like the thread but wouldnt form too many impressions just yet, either way.

descendency
08-14-2011, 11:07 AM
In regards to Gabbert, something to consider: The patriots did NOT play starters on defense save Brandon Meriweather and Patrick Chung, but neither of them played in coverage on people Gabbert threw at.

Gabbert abused an abortion of a corner in Darius Butler.

Yeah, Mallett beat up bad 3rd stringers, but Gabbert played against 2nd stringers for the most part.

nepg
08-14-2011, 11:21 AM
Lol at everyone that was hating on this qb class. Best one in years. Could end up being next-best after 1983.

Halsey
08-14-2011, 11:46 AM
I still say Newton is the favorite to win ROTY. Can you really keep a talent like that on the bench for Jimmy Clausen? Carolina has a chance to be competitive this year. This year could be a chance to get some positive buzz and momentum going in that organization's favor.

FUNBUNCHER
08-14-2011, 11:47 AM
Lol at everyone that was hating on this qb class. Best one in years. Could end up being next-best after 1983.

Yeah it's early, but I think this will be QFT.

You have to realize NONE of these guys had OTAs or minicamps, so for most of them to even look competent in their first preseason game is a huge positive sign. Many of them looked better than competent, and you could easily see most of them being given the starting reigns early in the season.

You can question maybe some of Gabbert's decisions on where to go with the ball, but the dude has accuracy more than 15+ yards downfield. IMO he's nearly pinpoint, which is a huge shocker to me.

About Cam, I've always said he was a pocket passer born in the body of a freak athlete, and pragmatic college coaches simply chose to exploit his physical gifts. Jake Locker is even faster than Cam, but you didn't see Sarkisian running the triple option at U Dub. People stereotyped Cam as a runner because he was so good at it, but if you looked at his HS tape, the dude RARELY ran the football and never had a season where he rushed for more than 500 yards.
People wondered about Newton's passing instincts, if he had the hardwiring to make plays within the pocket. I was sold early on that he would prefer to make plays with his arm instead of his legs.

Mallett looked like a first team QB playing against backups, which is an indication that a rookie is 'special'.

None of these guys looked scared, or were spraying the ball wildly all over the football field. There was a level of control and confidence for nearly all the top guys I found surprising.

Not to 'jack this thread, but the buzzword in D.C. about Grossman is 'maturity' and the genius offensive system of Kyle Shanahan. The league is starting to figure out Pittsburgh struggles to defend spread passing attacks, they don't have the corners and their big LBs can be gassed forcing them to cover play after play out in the flat.


I think Dalton and AJ Green only need to develop better timing, Dalton has enough ability to get AJ the football over the top of a defense.

JBCX
08-14-2011, 11:51 AM
Lol at everyone that was hating on this qb class. Best one in years. Could end up being next-best after 1983.

This is the most blatant example of "jumping to conclusions" that I've ever seen on here.

There is *nothing* you can say about this QB draft class until at least two years have passed, minimum. You can't even begin to make sketchy assumptions until 2011 season is 10 Weeks into the regular season.

Saints-Tigers
08-14-2011, 11:52 AM
In Kaepernick's defense, the Saints were sending some heat after him, and he escaped his fair share of, what would be sacks on normal mortals.

I always thought Jake Locker was easily the best QB of this class though, and still feel that way, and Mallett was my number 2 (talent and upside wise), followed by Cam.

SeanTaylorRIP
08-14-2011, 12:03 PM
I said it before the draft but I really think Cam can turn to be a Daunte Culpepper type QB, who will put up big numbers but struggle with consistency and turnovers. Now of course having the best receiver in the league would't hurt but with the run game and tight end play around Cam if they can land a Jeffery or even Floyd next year they will have a lethal offense. I still believe Cam was the right pick to make, he's built for what they are trying to do. The lethal run game is really going to set up a successful play action deep passing game. The thing about Cam good or bad is that he seems to accept the mentality as growing into a pocket passer where as Tebow will do whatever is necessary to get yards like putting his body in harms way, this in turn however stunts the development of him as a pocket passer. I think Cam will continue to improve his footwork once he begins to develop that pocket passer mentality. I do however hope he doesn't forget that he's a freak athlete. Aaron Rodgers shows how lethal you can be by not just limiting yourself as a pocket passer. Newton isn't Michael Vick but he should use his athleticism to his advantage to create things by shifting the defense.

YAYareaRB
08-14-2011, 12:50 PM
Dont forget about Josh Portis

nepg
08-14-2011, 01:21 PM
This is the most blatant example of "jumping to conclusions" that I've ever seen on here.

There is *nothing* you can say about this QB draft class until at least two years have passed, minimum. You can't even begin to make sketchy assumptions until 2011 season is 10 Weeks into the regular season.
Yes there is.

The QBs in this draft were an amazing bunch from a physical, athletic, and experience standpoint. They were elite talents and most of them showed great leadership skills in college. Locker, Gabbert, Mallett, and Newton are 100% legit Franchise QB prospects (in any year, by any definition...these 4 are legit guys). And they all had the same thing to work on going into the NFL...footwork - an easy fix. And all 4 look to have significantly improved in that area already. Ponder, Kaepernick, Dalton, and Stanzi all have potential to get to that level (though I don't see it with Dalton).

I had 4 going in the Top 5 of my "what teams should do" mock (5 in the Top 20)... And I wasn't that high on Ponder (he looks like he might prove me slightly wrong) and really low on Dalton (still had both in the early 2nd round). I had 8 QBs in the Top 50. Teams ****** up. Bad.

DoughBoy
08-14-2011, 01:23 PM
Lol at everyone that was hating on this qb class. Best one in years. Could end up being next-best after 1983.

Glad to see no one is jumping to extreme conclusions after the first preseason game.

ATLDirtyBirds
08-14-2011, 01:39 PM
Lol at everyone that was hating on this qb class. Best one in years. Could end up being next-best after 1983.


Overreaction and a half.

bigbluedefense
08-14-2011, 01:48 PM
Way overreacting.

I was a Locker fan, he was my favorite qb in this class so i'm glad to hear he's doing well.

Gabbert still sucks. Just like in college, once there was pressure he just tries to scramble outside the pocket. He has no blitz recognition and no pocket presence.

Newton looks promising.

Mallet looks promising. I haven't seen the rest.

SolidGold
08-14-2011, 02:15 PM
I think Dalton will be fine, he had that one underthrown ball that was intercepted. It was the first preseason game. His o-line did not really help him. They will be a run first team and spoon feed Dalton more of the playbook as the season goes on.

Overall considering there were no OTAs/mini camps for these rookie QBs all of them actually performed pretty well. None embarassed themselves. It kind of makes you wonder what a team like Seattle was thinking by signing Tavaris Jackson to be the starter.

ElectricEye
08-14-2011, 02:19 PM
Yeah, there's nothing wrong with getting some impressions from the pre-season and such, but to say it's certainly not a great barometer of how these guys will turn out.

descendency
08-14-2011, 02:21 PM
Physically, this is one of the most talented classes in a while. I don't think it's that big of a deal to predict that they will be a great class.

yo123
08-14-2011, 03:02 PM
Ponder really impressed me playing behind our awful O-line he handled it very well. One thing he needs to work on is accuracy on slants because for whatever reason he's terrible at that route. Maybe just a timing thing that will get sorted out. He moved well in and out of the pocket and made some nice throws, he kind of reminds me of Jeff Garcia.

niel89
08-14-2011, 04:47 PM
I'm watching Newton right now and he is doing alright. Not terribly impressive but he has made a couple nice throws. I thought that Clausen looked pretty good also aside from that pick 6. I'm not sold on Newton starting early on at all.



Physically, this is one of the most talented classes in a while. I don't think it's that big of a deal to predict that they will be a great class.

This was one point that I really thought was important around draft time. All of these young QB for the most part have pretty great tools overall. Newton, Gabbert, Mallett, and Locker have very good physical tools to work with.

Ness
08-14-2011, 11:11 PM
Locker's accuracy looked really nice and he threw some beautiful spirals...Warren Moon-like. Hopefully he turns out to be a good quarterback for Tennessee. Having someone like Hasselbeck in front of him is a great addition too.

A Perfect Score
08-14-2011, 11:23 PM
I want to know where all the Jake Locker supporters were pre-draft when I was getting ripped a new one for saying he was still a Top 10 prospect. Same goes for Christian Ponder, although I never had him ranked that high I did have him as a first rounder and I liked him a hell of a lot more then Cam Newton.

Saints-Tigers
08-15-2011, 12:18 AM
I want to know where all the Jake Locker supporters were pre-draft when I was getting ripped a new one for saying he was still a Top 10 prospect. Same goes for Christian Ponder, although I never had him ranked that high I did have him as a first rounder and I liked him a hell of a lot more then Cam Newton.


Was never that high on Ponder like you, but I did love me some Jake, and would have taken him over Bradford the year before, and still think he will be the better player.

Was very high on Mallett as a player as well, didn't like getting too deep into the intangibles and off field stuff, because quite frankly, we don't know nearly as much on those subjects as we think we do.

Cam, not so much, but the more I listen to him, the more I think he might make it, he comes off douchey too some people, but he seems extremely driven, and I don't think he's faking that.

Bengalsrocket
08-15-2011, 12:29 AM
Was never that high on Ponder like you, but I did love me some Jake, and would have taken him over Bradford the year before, and still think he will be the better player.

Was very high on Mallett as a player as well, didn't like getting too deep into the intangibles and off field stuff, because quite frankly, we don't know nearly as much on those subjects as we think we do.

Cam, not so much, but the more I listen to him, the more I think he might make it, he comes off douchey too some people, but he seems extremely driven, and I don't think he's faking that.

I pretty much liked all the QB's in this class besides Dalton and Ponder (I even liked Stanzi pre-draft, a lot actually). I'll support Dalton now that he's a Bengals though.

I think the problem with Locker (and not to sound like a broken record here) is that he was just over analyzed for returning his senior year. He was still a good prospect and Tennessee knew that obviously, that's why they drafted him.

bucfan12
08-15-2011, 12:58 AM
I want to know where all the Jake Locker supporters were pre-draft when I was getting ripped a new one for saying he was still a Top 10 prospect. Same goes for Christian Ponder, although I never had him ranked that high I did have him as a first rounder and I liked him a hell of a lot more then Cam Newton.

Bro, relax. It's 1 preseason game where Locker and Ponder both played against base defenses with 2nd/3rd stringers. So, don't go all out saying you were right about Locker all along. WAY TOO EARLY.

I think Ponder will have a better career than Locker. I'm just not sold on Locker as a franchise QB. It just seems like he won't be able to break down and read defenses properly and doesn't have the best pocket presence.

I hope Locker proves me wrong because it's not right to say that I hope he busts, but he just doesn't seem like he is a guy that can be a franchise guy.

Ness
08-15-2011, 04:43 AM
I never liked any of the quarterbacks coming out.

FUNBUNCHER
08-15-2011, 05:01 AM
I still need to see more from Ponder. He had all the skill talent in the world at Florida State and struggled to elevate that team.

I don't think he ends up the long term solution for Minny, but who knows???

descendency
08-15-2011, 05:03 AM
Two guys I really liked after your "core" group, TJ Yates and Greg McElroy, will both play tonight.

nepg
08-15-2011, 08:37 AM
I want to know where all the Jake Locker supporters were pre-draft when I was getting ripped a new one for saying he was still a Top 10 prospect. Same goes for Christian Ponder, although I never had him ranked that high I did have him as a first rounder and I liked him a hell of a lot more then Cam Newton.
I had him #1 the whole time, buddy.

And I'm not BASING it off of the pre-season necessarily. I'm basing it off of having thought that all along and knowing the main guys needed to work on a couple things to get to where I thought they were going... And the pre-season games showed all 4 had come a long way with their footwork which improved their accuracy and pocket presence.

ElectricEye
08-15-2011, 09:55 AM
I want to know where all the Jake Locker supporters were pre-draft when I was getting ripped a new one for saying he was still a Top 10 prospect. Same goes for Christian Ponder, although I never had him ranked that high I did have him as a first rounder and I liked him a hell of a lot more then Cam Newton.

....I had him ranked at the top the entire time and got in page long fights with Sniper about college production and being the internet police.

I even had "I remember Jake Locker" in my signature up until about a week ago.

But yeah, arguing like a bunch of scene kids about who liked a band first probably isn't very productive. Plus, it's just one pre-season game.

DraftSavant
08-15-2011, 11:46 AM
Looks like we may be putting the horse in front of the carriage here. All you can really do at this point is judge physical attributes - and that was never a question with any of these guys coming out (save Dalton).

I believe Gabbert was the only one who started, and the Pats had reserves at every position except for safety. Remember that almost all teams are carrying around 90 guys on their roster who have to be evaluated in a game situation before the first cuts. So most of these QBs were going against players who won't even be on an NFL roster by next week.

Also, other than the Saints game, I saw even MORE vanilla schemes (both offensively and defensively) than we're used to in the pre-season. The Pats, in particular, weren't even disguising coverages PRE-SNAP. You could look at their alignment and easily deduce Cover Two, Man Free, Cover Three, etc. before the ball was even snapped.

Also, in regards to the OP, are there more good, young, talented QBs than ever before? Or have the rule changes swung so far in favor of the offense that playing QB in the NFL is easier than ever before? I lean towards the latter.

Unbiased
08-15-2011, 11:50 AM
I wish they would let Gabbert start the rest of the preseason. We know what David can do. I don't want to see Blaine play against a bunch of UDFAs. What would be the point of that?

descendency
08-15-2011, 11:54 AM
I want to know where all the Jake Locker supporters were pre-draft when I was getting ripped a new one for saying he was still a Top 10 prospect. Same goes for Christian Ponder, although I never had him ranked that high I did have him as a first rounder and I liked him a hell of a lot more then Cam Newton.

I had a fairly long topic in the draft forum listing my top players at each position and had Locker, Ponder, and Mallett 1, 2, and 3. Newton 4. I had Gabbert like 6.

DraftSavant
08-15-2011, 11:56 AM
Interesting that so many were so high on Locker, yet so low on Newton when they're essentially the same guy coming out of college. Unless you're of the belief that playing in Sarkisian's magical "pro style offense" somehow better prepares you for the NFL.

But yes, Mallett was the gem of this class at QB and would/should have gone 1st overall if he didn't have such a good time in college. You know, like a normal college kid does.

descendency
08-15-2011, 12:05 PM
Interesting that so many were so high on Locker, yet so low on Newton when they're essentially the same guy coming out of college. Unless you're of the belief that playing in Sarkisian's magical "pro style offense" somehow better prepares you for the NFL.

I wouldn't call it magic, but there are some things that playing in a pro style offense prepares you to do that you will have to learn in the NFL. It's not a guarantee, but it gives you a leg up. By year 3, if it's still a problem, you're a bust.

bucfan12
08-15-2011, 12:31 PM
Interesting that so many were so high on Locker, yet so low on Newton when they're essentially the same guy coming out of college. Unless you're of the belief that playing in Sarkisian's magical "pro style offense" somehow better prepares you for the NFL.

But yes, Mallett was the gem of this class at QB and would/should have gone 1st overall if he didn't have such a good time in college. You know, like a normal college kid does.

It's not only that Mallett had a good time in college, it's just that scouts, gms and coaches saw the "Ryan Leaf/Jimmy Clausen like attitude" where it was more about "me" than "we", if you get what I'm saying. The talent was there. Everyone knew that he is above and beyond a better QB that Cam Newton, Jake Locker, and even Christain Ponder (maybe even Gabbert, but I liked him coming out).

His character didn't match his physical tools and questionable leadership traits.

BTW, having a fun time in college isn't blowing lines of cocaine. I know I never did that. Getting drunk, hooking up with random strange, and smokin the gaunj is more the random stupid decision you make at that age ; )

nepg
08-15-2011, 01:31 PM
"EVEN" Christian Ponder? With the Gabbert in parentheses?

SOOO backwards. I guess I'll just have to sit back and continue to be amazed by what people think of different quarterbacks.

I had 'em:
1. Locker
2. Mallett
3. Newton
4. Gabbert
5. Kaepernick
6. Stanzi
7. Ponder
8. Yates
9. Dalton

The last 5 on mine I think is up for debate, but the Top 4 I feel very confident about. The only thing I'd say about the Top 4 of mine is that I think you have to draft Cam Newton above Mallett just because of the type of player he could be if he can digest an NFL offense (not worried about mechanics or being a pocket passer or leadership - he's shown those traits - all of them have).

Jake Locker's demeanor reminds me of Tom Brady's, and he just is the most complete package as a QB and athlete out of the group.

DraftSavant
08-15-2011, 01:51 PM
Something I don't think EVER gets enough play pre-draft: 3rd down success. Traditional numbers are empty calories and highly variable in today's volume passing NCAA.

Recent Picks:
Sam Bradford: 67.2%
Mark Sanchez: 63.9%
Josh Freeman: 60.8%
Matt Stafford: 58.7%
Matt Ryan: 53.1%

http://draftace.com/...ce-on-3rd-down/

This year's picks:
Kaepernick: 64.8%, 8 TDs, 3 INTs
Mallett: 64.1%, 7 TDs, 2 INTs
Newton: 57.7%, 8 TDs, 2 INTs
Dalton: 56.7%, 7 TDs, 2 INTs
Ponder: 51.8%, 8 TDs, 3 INTs
Locker: 51.1%, 4 TDs, 3 INTs
Gabbert: 44.3% 6 TDs, 5 INTs

http://www.cfbstats....y02/sort07.html

yo123
08-15-2011, 01:51 PM
I don't see how Kaepernick is ahead of Ponder. Then again I don't understand why Kaepernick was more than a 5th round pick.

bucfan12
08-15-2011, 02:11 PM
"EVEN" Christian Ponder? With the Gabbert in parentheses?

SOOO backwards. I guess I'll just have to sit back and continue to be amazed by what people think of different quarterbacks.

I had 'em:
1. Locker
2. Mallett
3. Newton
4. Gabbert
5. Kaepernick
6. Stanzi
7. Ponder
8. Yates
9. Dalton

The last 5 on mine I think is up for debate, but the Top 4 I feel very confident about. The only thing I'd say about the Top 4 of mine is that I think you have to draft Cam Newton above Mallett just because of the type of player he could be if he can digest an NFL offense (not worried about mechanics or being a pocket passer or leadership - he's shown those traits - all of them have).

Jake Locker's demeanor reminds me of Tom Brady's, and he just is the most complete package as a QB and athlete out of the group.

The way I saw my QBs coming out:

1. Gabbert: I liked his arm strength, awareness and accuracy. His mobility was a huge plus as well as well. I just think his game and skills transfer to the NFL level.

2. Ryan Mallet: He has a rocket launcher for an arm, very accurate. However, his character concerns and whether or not he can be a leader is the big question mark. Kind of a statue in the pocket and needs better pocket presence skills. If his character concerns can be dealt with, then he'll be a fine QB.

3. Colin Kaepernick: He may have come from a pistol offense, but he's very mobile in the pocket, has a good feel for pass rush and excellent escapibility. Has a very strong arm and is intellegent and accurate. He has all the talent, but coming from a pistol offense, he might need some time to develop, but the skills are there.

Those are the 3 I actually thik will be starters in the NFL.

the rest:

4. Christian Ponder: I think he could be an average starter for a very good team. Mold of a chad pennington/brad johnson type QB, just a bit more mobile.

5. Ricky Stanzie: very smart QB who I think can develop into a quality starter in this league.

6. Jake Locker: Jury is still out, but he was massively inconsistant throughout college. Very inaccurate but has physical tools to be good, just I'm not sure he's got that potential to be a top QB in this league.

7. Cam Newton: Vince Young 2.0, just bigger.

8. Andy Dalton: Didn't like the pick. I think he's just a back up type QB, somewhat like Kevin Kolb, just overhyped.

V.I.P
08-15-2011, 02:16 PM
Lockerzzzzzzzzzz ......

.... okay, that is all....

Babylon
08-15-2011, 04:05 PM
I want to know where all the Jake Locker supporters were pre-draft when I was getting ripped a new one for saying he was still a Top 10 prospect. Same goes for Christian Ponder, although I never had him ranked that high I did have him as a first rounder and I liked him a hell of a lot more then Cam Newton.

Without going back and reading every post from a year ago the people in here that were in the Jake Locker top 10 camp were pretty much you me and Electric Eye (sorry if i missed any). Some of the old guard like Stoner, D-Unit and Sniper were downright hostile.

FUNBUNCHER
08-15-2011, 04:07 PM
It's not only that Mallett had a good time in college, it's just that scouts, gms and coaches saw the "Ryan Leaf/Jimmy Clausen like attitude" where it was more about "me" than "we", if you get what I'm saying. The talent was there. Everyone knew that he is above and beyond a better QB that Cam Newton, Jake Locker, and even Christain Ponder (maybe even Gabbert, but I liked him coming out).

His character didn't match his physical tools and questionable leadership traits.

BTW, having a fun time in college isn't blowing lines of cocaine. I know I never did that. Getting drunk, hooking up with random strange, and smokin the gaunj is more the random stupid decision you make at that age ; )

Speak for yourself.

The thing about doing pharmaceuticals is that the crowd eventually becomes too sketchy and the normals leave it alone.

Mallett was a leader at Arkansas, and I dare someone to find anyone associated with that program to find a player or coach who didn't feel the same way. Mallett wasn't a brat of someone who felt entitled, just a really confident guy with a little bit of an attitude. But he was every bit a leader under center who commanded a huddle and forced his teammates to play up to his level.

Third round for Mallett was a JOKE.
I hope he makes his next team pay for his services in stacks of gold bullion.

Ness
08-15-2011, 04:20 PM
I'd be surprised in the long run if we have three quarterbacks from this class with productive careers...which is quite rare.

Jvig43
08-15-2011, 04:23 PM
I'd be surprised in the long run if we have three quarterbacks from this class with productive careers...which is quite rare.

Big Ben, Rivers, Manning in the last decade lol.

DoughBoy
08-15-2011, 04:25 PM
The way I saw my QBs coming out:

1. Gabbert: I liked his arm strength, awareness and accuracy. His mobility was a huge plus as well as well. I just think his game and skills transfer to the NFL level.

2. Ryan Mallet: He has a rocket launcher for an arm, very accurate. However, his character concerns and whether or not he can be a leader is the big question mark. Kind of a statue in the pocket and needs better pocket presence skills. If his character concerns can be dealt with, then he'll be a fine QB.

3. Colin Kaepernick: He may have come from a pistol offense, but he's very mobile in the pocket, has a good feel for pass rush and excellent escapibility. Has a very strong arm and is intellegent and accurate. He has all the talent, but coming from a pistol offense, he might need some time to develop, but the skills are there.

Those are the 3 I actually thik will be starters in the NFL.

the rest:

4. Christian Ponder: I think he could be an average starter for a very good team. Mold of a chad pennington/brad johnson type QB, just a bit more mobile.

5. Ricky Stanzie: very smart QB who I think can develop into a quality starter in this league.

6. Jake Locker: Jury is still out, but he was massively inconsistant throughout college. Very inaccurate but has physical tools to be good, just I'm not sure he's got that potential to be a top QB in this league.

7. Cam Newton: Vince Young 2.0, just bigger.

8. Andy Dalton: Didn't like the pick. I think he's just a back up type QB, somewhat like Kevin Kolb, just overhyped.

I would like this one explained to me... how are they anything alike, other than being mobile?

Ness
08-15-2011, 04:41 PM
Big Ben, Rivers, Manning in the last decade lol.

Right. And that's quite rare. What other classes have done that? 1983 draft. And maybe 2000 with Bulger, Pennington, and Brady. But I can't think of any others off the top of my head.

descendency
08-15-2011, 05:13 PM
I would like this one explained to me... how are they anything alike, other than being mobile?

They're both black!

Cam Newton should move to TE so he can be the next Vernon Davis.

V.I.P
08-15-2011, 05:14 PM
Cam Newton kinda reminds me of Jamarcus russel. They are both huge guys with cannon arms. Both had sloppy footwork & questions about their attitude. Newton may be a harder worker, but this isn't a terrible comparison at all. Both also have that high bust factor.

descendency
08-15-2011, 05:16 PM
Cam Newton kinda reminds me of Jamarcus russel. They are both huge guys with cannon arms. Both had sloppy footwork & questions about their attitude. Newton may be a harder worker, but this isn't a terrible comparison at all. Both also have that high bust factor.

JaMarcus Russell is Big Ben with no work ethic on a bad team (and a much bigger arm... and waist)

Hurricanes25
08-15-2011, 05:31 PM
Josh Portis looked very good for Seattle. His first few throws were terrible but once he got comfortable, he was pretty impressive. He showed a lot of poise and he even stepped foward in the pocket, something teammate Tavaris Jackson fails to do. Portis was fairly accurate minus the first 2 or 3 passes. Portis also has the athletic ability to extend and keep plays alive. Of course he played against 3rd stringers and below but nonetheless, he was impressive. I like him as a developmental QB.

nepg
08-15-2011, 05:37 PM
Cam Newton kinda reminds me of Jamarcus russel. They are both huge guys with cannon arms. Both had sloppy footwork & questions about their attitude. Newton may be a harder worker, but this isn't a terrible comparison at all. Both also have that high bust factor.
It is a terrible comparison. It really is. Newton's a hard worker, in great shape, is a billion times more competent and articulate when he speaks in public, and brings a leadership pressence that JaMarcus Russell NEVER had.

Footwork is the one thing each of the Top 4 QBs had as their #1 issue coming into the NFL. Newton's problem with his footwork is from the offense at Auburn demanding that he always be ready to run. He never/rarely had a standard drop or setup.

Newton is a far cry from Vince Young. Newton's upper body/arm mechanics are damn good. He has a quick release and doesn't loft the ball like Young did/does. He's also a stockier build and I think he's just better-built for the position. He's more of a TE build compared to Young's WR build. Attitude/maturity-wise, they're not even in the same ballpark. They're both black and play QB, that's about it.

As a developmental player, I'd compare Newton to Vick. But I think Newton is more dedicated (so far) than Vick was to becoming an NFL QB. I think Newton's height is what gives him the real advantage over Vick in this department. Vick HAD to rely on his athleticism a lot because he's not a tall guy and it wasn't easy for him to find throwing lanes (the fact that he had one of the worst OLs in the history of the NFL in Atlanta didn't help).

I don't mean to pump up Newton like that because he has a lot to prove, and a long ways to go, but some of the things people come up with just don't make sense or aren't true.

Ness
08-15-2011, 05:41 PM
Cam Newton kinda reminds me of Jamarcus russel. They are both huge guys with cannon arms. Both had sloppy footwork & questions about their attitude. Newton may be a harder worker, but this isn't a terrible comparison at all. Both also have that high bust factor.

What? Come on now. Russell was fat, lazy, and had a bad attitude. Nothing about Newton so far should remind you of Russell. Newton actually looks like he's in shape, didn't holdout for a huge contract, appears to be a hard worker, and his persona just seems a lot more charming. Time will tell, but I'd be shocked, just shocked if Newton replicated what Russell orchestrated during his short stint in the NFL. No quarterback in recent memory taken fairly high has done that, other than Russell himself.

M.O.T.H.
08-15-2011, 05:42 PM
His footwork was certainly sloppy in that game, though. That's for sure. It was the primary reason for his inaccuracy on a bunch of his throws. When he had Armanti wide open, his feet were in such an awkard position it was unreal. haha. And he threw several passes off his back foot. He has work to do in that regard for sure...but it's going to improve.

DraftSavant
08-15-2011, 05:47 PM
Speak for yourself.

The thing about doing pharmaceuticals is that the crowd eventually becomes too sketchy and the normals leave it alone.

Mallett was a leader at Arkansas, and I dare someone to find anyone associated with that program to find a player or coach who didn't feel the same way. Mallett wasn't a brat of someone who felt entitled, just a really confident guy with a little bit of an attitude. But he was every bit a leader under center who commanded a huddle and forced his teammates to play up to his level.

Third round for Mallett was a JOKE.
I hope he makes his next team pay for his services in stacks of gold bullion.

Agree 100%.

Keep in mind, Brady just turned 34. I really don't believe Mallett was drafted with the sole intention of being trade bait. There's just as much of a chance at him being the successor in NE, no matter how long Brady says he's going to play.

bucfan12
08-15-2011, 05:49 PM
I would like this one explained to me... how are they anything alike, other than being mobile?

Both were Heisman candidates, spread offense that had them make simple reads instead of difficult throws.

Won't be able to run all over people like he did in college, just ask Vince that one and will have to be a pocket passer.

I don't think he has the mentality to sit and break down and read all different types of defensive schemes defenses will throw at him. Never had to make that difficult throw at Auburn. I think defenses will confuse him quite easily.

Ness
08-15-2011, 05:49 PM
His footwork was certainly sloppy in that game, though. That's for sure. It was the primary reason for his inaccuracy on a bunch of his throws. When he had Armanti wide open, his feet were in such an awkard position it was unreal. haha. And he threw several passes off his back foot. He has work to do in that regard for sure...but it's going to improve.

Well with practice he'll get better. With no mini-camps or OTA's, I think he did fairly well. Now it's just going to be up to him how hard he decides to dedicate himself.

bucfan12
08-15-2011, 05:50 PM
Agree 100%.

Keep in mind, Brady just turned 34. I really don't believe Mallett was drafted with the sole intention of being trade bait. There's just as much of a chance at him being the successor in NE, no matter how long Brady says he's going to play.

We'll see if Mallett has the patience to sit and wait for his turn then, because a ton of coaches at the combine weren't impressed with his character during interviews at the combine.

M.O.T.H.
08-15-2011, 05:51 PM
Well with practice he'll get better. With no mini-camps or OTA's, I think he did fairly well. Now it's just going to be up to him how hard he decides to dedicate himself.

As I said before, I have faith in the kid. He'll get better with the repetition, I like the idea of going forward with him right away. It's a much better situation in Carolina for a young QB than some realize.

Ness
08-15-2011, 05:52 PM
Both were Heisman candidates, spread offense that had them make simple reads instead of difficult throws.

Won't be able to run all over people like he did in college, just ask Vince that one and will have to be a pocket passer.

I don't think he has the mentality to sit and break down and read all different types of defensive schemes defenses will throw at him. Never had to make that difficult throw at Auburn. I think defenses will confuse him quite easily.

Yeah, but then you might as well throw Steve McNair in that same conversation then. They ran a good amount of spread at Alcorn State if I remember correctly, and Steve was known as a quarterback that used his legs a good amount of the time. But with hard work his passing game matured and he got better. It's all going to depend on how Newton applies himself. Vince just didn't seem like he had the right attitude going for him, which I think is going to ultimately be his biggest downfall as far as his career is concerned, unless he makes a miraculous comeback.

nepg
08-15-2011, 05:53 PM
Agree 100%.

Keep in mind, Brady just turned 34. I really don't believe Mallett was drafted with the sole intention of being trade bait. There's just as much of a chance at him being the successor in NE, no matter how long Brady says he's going to play.
I'd agree with that. The Pats don't like to carry 3 QBs. If they can find a home for Hoyer, Mallett is likely their guy for the long haul. He'd be smart to stick around and understand what kind of contract is in his future with the Patriots. I mean, it's perfect for him...especially with the new rookie pay scale. He's going to sit behind Brady, stay really healthy and be ******* beast making serious bank when it's his turn to shine. He'll be Aaron Rodgers x10,000,000.

Jvig43
08-15-2011, 06:33 PM
I'd agree with that. The Pats don't like to carry 3 QBs. If they can find a home for Hoyer, Mallett is likely their guy for the long haul. He'd be smart to stick around and understand what kind of contract is in his future with the Patriots. I mean, it's perfect for him...especially with the new rookie pay scale. He's going to sit behind Brady, stay really healthy and be ******* beast making serious bank when it's his turn to shine. He'll be Aaron Rodgers x10,000,000.

lol that's a bit much, but I would be very happy if he was anywhere near Rodgers level of play if he gets his chance on this team. I'm much more open to him being our future QB then simply getting a draft pick for him.

V.I.P
08-15-2011, 07:59 PM
Yeah i guess JaMarcus Russell was a bad comparison.

Physically, Freeman is his closest comp. Lets look at the combine numbers.

JF - 6'5(3/4) 248.
CN - 6'5 248.

JF/CN vertical, 40 and wonderlic.

33(1/2)/35
4.9/4.56
27/21

So Newton is more explosive, as we all know. But Freeman and Newton are very comparable in the mobility department. Using their strength and size to ward off potential sacks rather than running around like Vick. Freeman is more advanced as a passer, obviously. Arm strength is close enough to be negligible. Both have been regarded as high upside "projects." Both are fundamentally sound at throwing footballs (insofar as throwing mechanics, not necessarily working a pocket...etc). Freeman has made good on his development and Newton was standing tall in the pocket in his first appearance. I think both are going to be great.

SolidGold
08-15-2011, 08:43 PM
Josh Freeman's best comparison Big Ben
Newton's best comparison is Daunte Culpepper

FUNBUNCHER
08-15-2011, 10:25 PM
I think some football fans will be surprised to observe IMO that Newton has absolutely no desire to rush for 100+ yards in a game. I know his career at Auburn tends to contradict this, but understand that most of huge runs in college were by design, not instinct.

The only running I think Chudzinski wants Newton to do is run laterally to extend plays, and when Newton feels all his WRs are covered on 3rd down, he doesn't hesitate to pick up the yards for a first down with his feet.

That's it.

There are superficial comparisons to VY as a prospect, but when you drill down into each player as a pro prospect, they aren't really clones of each other.

BTW, I really hope that Jimmy Clausen looks like a player this season so that he can be acquired in a trade prior to the 2012 season.

OzTitan
08-16-2011, 12:24 AM
Something I don't think EVER gets enough play pre-draft: 3rd down success. Traditional numbers are empty calories and highly variable in today's volume passing NCAA.

Recent Picks:
Sam Bradford: 67.2%
Mark Sanchez: 63.9%
Josh Freeman: 60.8%
Matt Stafford: 58.7%
Matt Ryan: 53.1%

http://draftace.com/...ce-on-3rd-down/

This year's picks:
Kaepernick: 64.8%, 8 TDs, 3 INTs
Mallett: 64.1%, 7 TDs, 2 INTs
Newton: 57.7%, 8 TDs, 2 INTs
Dalton: 56.7%, 7 TDs, 2 INTs
Ponder: 51.8%, 8 TDs, 3 INTs
Locker: 51.1%, 4 TDs, 3 INTs
Gabbert: 44.3% 6 TDs, 5 INTs

http://www.cfbstats....y02/sort07.html

Honestly, I know there are these stat benchmark models that try and predict NFL success for QBs, but raw stats to me are just so useless to analyse for this. I think it goes as far as stats relative to unique circumstances, like surrounding talent, scheme, division etc, and that's it. Raw stats analysis is much more suitable in the NFL where the variables are far more condensed, and the goals identical for all.

HeavyLeggedWaistBender
08-16-2011, 03:37 AM
This thread sucks Nate Enderles dick :)

irishbucsfan
08-16-2011, 11:13 AM
Speak for yourself.

The thing about doing pharmaceuticals is that the crowd eventually becomes too sketchy and the normals leave it alone.

Mallett was a leader at Arkansas, and I dare someone to find anyone associated with that program to find a player or coach who didn't feel the same way. Mallett wasn't a brat of someone who felt entitled, just a really confident guy with a little bit of an attitude. But he was every bit a leader under center who commanded a huddle and forced his teammates to play up to his level.

Third round for Mallett was a JOKE.
I hope he makes his next team pay for his services in stacks of gold bullion.

Such deep, deep truth. His character stuff was utterly overblown, to the point where I think GMs all over the league literally out-thought themselves. His attitude is extremely close to Phillip Rivers' from everything I've read and watched. Fiery, demands high standards of himself and everyone around him.

People see 'character concerns' and seem to put those guys all in box, and it baffles me that the GMs who seem to scratch past the surface label seem to come up trumps. See: Bucs and Mike Willliams. People say he had concerns in college, when anyone who did research found out that he didn't play for a year because a communication mishap with one of the coaches. It's paid off big time for us, and I see Mallet paying off big time for whoever he ends up playing for. Think Rivers with a howitzer attached to his right shoulder.

yo123
08-16-2011, 02:19 PM
I think some football fans will be surprised to observe IMO that Newton has absolutely no desire to rush for 100+ yards in a game. I know his career at Auburn tends to contradict this, but understand that most of huge runs in college were by design, not instinct.

The only running I think Chudzinski wants Newton to do is run laterally to extend plays, and when Newton feels all his WRs are covered on 3rd down, he doesn't hesitate to pick up the yards for a first down with his feet.

That's it.

There are superficial comparisons to VY as a prospect, but when you drill down into each player as a pro prospect, they aren't really clones of each other.

BTW, I really hope that Jimmy Clausen looks like a player this season so that he can be acquired in a trade prior to the 2012 season.

So they draft him #1 based on his performance in college, but then tell him not to do what made him succeed in college? Sound logic.

Raiderz4Life
08-16-2011, 04:22 PM
So they draft him #1 based on his performance in college, but then tell him not to do what made him succeed in college? Sound logic.

Well actually, I don't think you want him to do a lot of what he did in Auburn in the pros, running a gimmick offence and what not.

yo123
08-16-2011, 04:25 PM
I don't think you have to run a gimmick offense to let him use his talent. Being told not to scramble unless it's 3rd down is pretty much the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Just draft Ryan Mallett then.

Raiderz4Life
08-16-2011, 04:30 PM
I think what he was trying to say is they want Cam to stand in the pocket and go through his progressions first and run if he has no other choice but obviously they'll mix in a lot of boot legs and roll outs and put his athleticism to work, but not be a 1 read and run QB

Ness
08-18-2011, 03:47 AM
Remember when Colt Brennan had a good first preseason game?

FUNBUNCHER
08-18-2011, 05:06 AM
If Colt hadn't had that hip injury, there's a good chance he'd still be in the mix to start for the Skins.

Colt was let go because he couldn't get on the field more than he wasn't a good player.

Caddy
08-18-2011, 05:27 AM
If Colt hadn't had that hip injury, there's a good chance he'd still be in the mix to start for the Skins.

Colt was let go because he couldn't get on the field more than he wasn't a good player.

Anyone could be in the mix to start in Washington...

Rosebud
08-18-2011, 07:20 AM
Speak for yourself.

The thing about doing pharmaceuticals is that the crowd eventually becomes too sketchy and the normals leave it alone.

Mallett was a leader at Arkansas, and I dare someone to find anyone associated with that program to find a player or coach who didn't feel the same way. Mallett wasn't a brat of someone who felt entitled, just a really confident guy with a little bit of an attitude. But he was every bit a leader under center who commanded a huddle and forced his teammates to play up to his level.

Third round for Mallett was a JOKE.
I hope he makes his next team pay for his services in stacks of gold bullion.

Coke's not a pharmaceutical. And on college campuses now a days, pharmaceuticals have a much less sketchy crowd than yay, at least until you start getting into the really heavy opiates like oc's and fentenol.

Santonio10
08-18-2011, 07:38 AM
I say Cam wins the most championship of any of these guys. He's a winner.

Nalej
08-18-2011, 07:43 AM
haha @ winner logic. What about Tebow? He's a winner too? Will he win more than Cam then?

JBCX
08-18-2011, 08:48 AM
Everyone sees Mike Williams doing well for the Bucs or Dez Bryant flashing promise for the Cowboys and immediately says "welp, character concerns are overrated!"

That's not how it works. Naturally, these kids have talent and some of it will show early. Early returns due to natural talent are to be expected. What you have to be worried about as a GM, however, are the long-term ramifications of such a player being on your team. Think about the things that Terrell Owens did to his teams: he always looked good the first year or two, but in the end his poisonous influence found a way to undermine every organization he's been with. That is the career trajectory you have to be worried about when you evaluate players such as Mike Williams or Dez Bryant. Simply because they appear to be "fine" now and are contributing to their teams does not mean in any way that the character concerns will not manifest at some later point and ultimately, they will be considered "busts" when the negative influence and attention outweigh the contributions.

A fine example of this is Albert Haynesworth. Is he talented and did he produce for teams in the NFL? Yes. But he was reputed to have character concerns as far back as his time in college. Did they eventually manifest once he was given a big contract?

Another example of this is Shawn Andrews. He was drafted in 2004 by the Eagles and was considered a supremely talented offensive lineman who was flaky and had some motivational issues and mental problems. He played at an All-Pro level for two years for the Eagles and everything looked great. But then his problems manifested, he alienated the coaches and fans, and was eventually cut.

I mean, sure, Mallett looks great in preseason so far. That doesn't mean he won't go on a massive coke binge, come into practice high constantly, and turn into Ryan Leaf (media/locker room wise) three years from now after the Patriots install him as the starter and sign him to a long-term contract extension. That's the real risk of someone like Mallet - the talent is never the question.

The problem is that most people are short-sighted and need instant gratification, so they want to jump to conclusions as early as possible. People don't want to wait for 2+ years before they see the real trajectory of a player's career. Mallet is a superstar after playing a single preseason game against backups and any character concerns he may have lurking beneath the surface are discounted.

FUNBUNCHER
08-18-2011, 09:50 AM
Coke's not a pharmaceutical. And on college campuses now a days, pharmaceuticals have a much less sketchy crowd than yay, at least until you start getting into the really heavy opiates like oc's and fentenol.


Cocaine ingested as an inhalant or injected is synthesized through a chemical process innovated by the drug pharmaceutical industry. No you can't get a prescription for it, but you can't grow an 8-ball in your backyard either. Universities that purchase 100% pure cocaine and heroin for use in drug testing and experimentation don't buy it from cartels or PD evidence lockers, they buy that **** directly from drug companies.

That's why some of us call it a pharmaceutical, because chemists are the ones who originally isolated the alkaloid, and in the late 19th and early 20th century drug companies used to sell it.

Ryan Mallett based on my experience was at worst maybe an occasional recreational user, in that if someone else had some powder, he may have been perfectly willing to help himself. But true cokeheads can't play QB at the level he did the last two years at Arkansas.

This isn't a Len Bias or Lawrence Taylor situation IMO.

Drug digression over!lol

FUNBUNCHER
08-18-2011, 10:02 AM
JBCX, I agree with most of what you said, except there's no evidence that Mallett had a drug problem at Arkansas. The accusations were that he 'used', not that he had a 'problem'.

If there was more than Ryan Mallett dealing with rumors of drug use, such as implied abuse on his part, I could understand him dropping to the 3rd round.

But at least from a fan perspective there was no smoking gun. He didn't test dirty and the only person who confirmed anything was Mallett. It's not like this guy was suspended multiple times for missing practices, physically fighting his teammates or violating undisclosed team conduct policies.

You can get by at other positions and not be fully in control of your mental faculties, but it's really hard to coast on athletic ability for a QB when the crux of your game is ball accuracy and decision-making.

The position is too mentally acute to be in a drug fog.

Personally I think the 'fear' of Mallett's character concerns are just that, nothing more.

If the guy has issues, I would've liked to have seen more reported than just rumors and innuendo.

ElectricEye
08-18-2011, 10:05 PM
How many college football players have tested positive for cocaine? Hey, how many have tested positive for ANY drug for that matter? We've had guys come forward in the past and say the college drug testing program is basically a joke. If you're one of those people who is "if there isn't a positive test there isn't a problem", there's really no persuading you. But the Mallet thing really didn't have anything to do with people wanting to "blow things out of proportion". Quarterbacks like Mallet are given every chance and break in the world. Nobody wants to see a guy with that kind of talent fall, especially with how quarterback starved this league constantly is. You also don't get the kind of reputation Mallet did without it being a problem at some point. Like I mentioned earlier, the amount of kids using drugs and playing college football versus the amount of them you hear about is just completely disproportionate. Scouts wouldn't be saying "I've got things on Ryan Mallet nobody knows about" and such without there being a larger issue than occasional use. Occasional use is a problem that can drop you down NFL boards(and rightfully so), but when it's something that gets to that level it's not something you can just totally write off as "oh he did a little cocaine".

So yeah, you really can't say it was "blown out of proportion". We've got people whose jobs are on the line corroborating this stuff. I'm not going to buy logic like "Ryan Mallett based on my experience was at worst maybe an occasional recreational user, in that if someone else had some powder, he may have been perfectly willing to help himself. But true cokeheads can't play QB at the level he did the last two years at Arkansas." You are taking far more liberties with far less information than you are alleging scouts did and frankly it just sounds silly and hypocritical. Rather obvious that you're just doing whatever you can to defend the point you are trying to bring across.

But yeah, I didn't come into this thread to discuss Ryan Mallet's drug use. It just bothers me that certain people are trying to sweep it under the rug and pretend that they know what goes on behind closed doors at Arkansas better than people with a far more extensive network of connections, contacts, and higher access level than they do. I was hoping to talk about Ryan Mallet's performance on the field tonight. I thought it was interesting than we gave him an increased rep load this week and played him in a different spot. He defiantly seemed far less comfortable tonight than he did after last weeks stellar performance. Tampa got pressure from the interior tonight and forced him to the outside, which clearly bothered him a bit. He had some severe communication errors with the receivers as well. Blown route or not, you can float a ball up like that when you've got two guys reading your eyes in zone. Asking for trouble there. His ball placement was also less than ideal. Really left some throws on the field tonight. Particularly the one to Farnham. He had his man beat over the top and a simple throw to lead him away from the coverage would have gone for a touchdown. Overall, he just made things harder than it had to be on his receivers tonight. A lot of that has to do with the pressure, but a lot of it was just flat out accuracy issues to.

Not all that concerned. He's a rookie in his second pre-season game. Of course it's not all going to go perfectly. I just wanted to help frame the Hall of Fame Induction Ceremony that went on last week in a more realistic light. Mallet is by no means a sure thing. He's got a ton to work on.

FUNBUNCHER
08-18-2011, 11:33 PM
Mallett IMO should be starting the season for a team like the 49ers/Bengals/Jags/Titans.

I don't want this to turn into another discussion about Ryan Mallett's pre draft evaluation, but sometimes rumors are just rumors.
The reason I say this is because it's unlikely anyone who ever possibly did coke with Mallett is going to willingly submit to being interviewed by NFL team investigators.

Just because a number of NFL bloggers and reporters imply there's undisclosed dirt out there about Mallett, even going so far as to say Mallett was about to quit the Arkansas football team because he was battling a heavy drug addiction(!), I just can't accept that off the top without more evidence.

Remember all the 'true' rumors about Mallett being too dumb to play QB?? That he was basically an idiot savant at the position?? That was a total BS lie.
This will all play itself it out years down the road, but it won't be the first time a media driven **** storm has surrounded a player not based in fact at all.