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View Full Version : Commissioner Goodell told Michael Vick to sign in Philadeplhia


bearsfan_51
08-18-2011, 08:41 AM
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d8218c476/article/vicks-initial-reaction-i-didnt-want-to-come-to-philadelphia

Goodell should be fired for this. If I was a Bengals or Bills fan I would be furious. You're the commissioner of the entire NFL, what right do you have to tell players where they should sign?

bearsfan_51
08-18-2011, 08:43 AM
Or Philadelphia. Philadeplhia sounds nice, though.

Rosebud
08-18-2011, 08:45 AM
**** the Fuhrer!

Giantsfan1080
08-18-2011, 09:38 AM
Goodell just keeps getting worse. He should have no say at all in personnel decisions.

Razor
08-18-2011, 09:47 AM
I actually like Goodell as commisioner, I think he's done a fine job. I can't get too worked up about this. Goodell needed Vick to stay on his best behavior after being let into the NFL again. Just imagine if he hadn't, the PR damages would be infinite. And really, does anybody think that Chan Gailey or Marvin "d-bag" Lewis are better at keeping players out of trouble than Andy Reid? I sure as hell don't.

bearsfan_51
08-18-2011, 09:51 AM
I generally don't have a problem with Goodell. He's a corporate stooge, but his bosses are 32 billionaires, so that's not exactly a shock.

That said, this is way over the line. It's tampering, pure and simple.

K Train
08-18-2011, 09:52 AM
I actually like Goodell as commisioner, I think he's done a fine job. I can't get too worked up about this. Goodell needed Vick to stay on his best behavior after being let into the NFL again. Just imagine if he hadn't, the PR damages would be infinite. And really, does anybody think that Chan Gailey or Marvin "d-bag" Lewis are better at keeping players out of trouble than Andy Reid? I sure as hell don't.

lol wut?

come on now, you cant really believe this. I dont HATE him like many do, but i can acknowledge hes done a piss poor job and is running what paul tag was doing right into the ground

BufFan71
08-18-2011, 10:06 AM
as a bills fan, im pissed. I really wanted Vick to come to Buffalo, he wouldve been the starter...


Its obvious Chan Gailey likes athletic Qb's (hes been playing brad smith at QB alot so far in TC) so i think he wouldve been able to work wonders with Vick

OSUGiants17
08-18-2011, 10:16 AM
as a bills fan, im pissed. I really wanted Vick to come to Buffalo, he wouldve been the starter...


Its obvious Chan Gailey likes athletic Qb's (hes been playing brad smith at QB alot so far in TC) so i think he wouldve been able to work wonders with Vick

Yea I feel like Vick would have been an ANIMAL in Buffalo and help build them up so they could actually compete with the Jets for 2nd place

Bills2083
08-18-2011, 10:26 AM
........ sigh.

All these years of heartbreaking losses, ineptitude on both the field and FO, draft blunders, and now this. It's gotta all pay off for Bills fans one day, I hope.

We could have been a damn good team with Vick at the helm. Most fans were clamoring for us to sign him and were outraged at the FO for not signing him. Now I can see that it was the commissioner of the league who completely dicked us over.

SolidGold
08-18-2011, 10:28 AM
Do you guys really think he would have been better off starting right away in Buffalo or Cincinnati? I think a lot of his success now should be attributed to the fact he did sit out a year in Philly and got to learn the system and get back into football shape. Do you remember his first year back in the league? He looked a lot slower and less explosive.

bearsfan_51
08-18-2011, 10:30 AM
Do you guys really think he would have been better off starting right away in Buffalo or Cincinnati?
That's not the point. The point is that the commissioner represents all 32 NFL owners, and should give no opinions to players on which teams they should sign with.

SolidGold
08-18-2011, 10:34 AM
"And I commend and thank them, because they put me in the right situation," Vick said.

bearsfan_51
08-18-2011, 10:44 AM
Again, who cares? Not the point. I'm sure Vick would be happy if they just gave him 10 million dollars. That doesn't mean that's the role of the commissioner's office.

Bills2083
08-18-2011, 10:44 AM
"And I commend and thank them, because they put me in the right situation," Vick said.

Who cares if it was the right situation or not?
Why should Goodell care if it's a good situation for Vick? If he thought it would be a bad image for the league with Vick in Buffalo, or Cincinnati, then he never should have reinstated him. Either, Vick is eligible to sign with all 32 teams, or he cannot sign with any. The commissioner of the NFL should have absolutely no say where a player ends up. That's as clear-cut a case of tampering as you will find.

ElectricEye
08-18-2011, 10:46 AM
That's not the point. The point is that the commissioner represents all 32 NFL owners, and should give no opinions to players on which teams they should sign with.

The answer to that question is rather obvious.

This is clearly well over the line and outside what the commissioner of the NFL should be doing, regardless of his intentions. It sounds like he just told Vick that the Eagles would be the best landing spot for him long term because organizational stability and coaching rather than telling him he HAS to sign with Philly...but still. Doesn't look good and really is a slap in the face to the Bills and Bengals. Not sure anything comes of this or if anything should, but he shouldn't have done that. Vick also did him a pretty big disservice by talking about it though.

gpngc
08-18-2011, 10:53 AM
No where in the article does it say what the title of the thread says. Also, ktrain, how exactly had Goodell run the NFL into the ground? It's one of the most successful businesses in the world and the arrow is still pointing up... Wtf specifically has he done to earn all the negate feelings? Hold his players to high standards? Emphasize safety? Contribute in negotiating a new CBA in time with barely any casualties?

Bills2083
08-18-2011, 10:56 AM
No where in the article does it say what the title of the thread says. Also, ktrain, how exactly had Goodell run the NFL into the ground? It's one of the most successful businesses in the world and the arrow is still pointing up... Wtf specifically has he done to earn all the negate feelings? Hold his players to high standards? Emphasize safety? Contribute in negotiating a new CBA in time with barely any casualties?

He's taking away much of the violence from football that drew so many of the fans to the sport. Essentially ridding the league of the kickoff? That's not just a minor change. It completely changes the course of the game. It's comical.

bearsfan_51
08-18-2011, 10:59 AM
No where in the article does it say what the title of the thread says. Also, ktrain, how exactly had Goodell run the NFL into the ground? It's one of the most successful businesses in the world and the arrow is still pointing up... Wtf specifically has he done to earn all the negate feelings? Hold his players to high standards? Emphasize safety? Contribute in negotiating a new CBA in time with barely any casualties?

Nowhere is one word.

Vick says that he initially didn't want to sign with the Eagles and the commissioner "convinced" him (his words). So, if you think that little more nuance makes a difference, fine, but the sentiment remains.

Bills2083
08-18-2011, 11:05 AM
On ESPN, Adam Schefter just reported that... (paraphrasing here)

'Others involved in the situation said that Vick is just not remembering clearly, and that he wanted to go to Philly all along.'

bearsfan_51
08-18-2011, 11:07 AM
These are not the droids you're looking for.....

The Alex
08-18-2011, 11:08 AM
You mean to tell me we could have had Michael Vick in Cincy playing in the Dawg Pound once a year? **** you Goodell, the jokes would have been golden.

TheBoyWonder22
08-18-2011, 11:19 AM
Vick would have been in the same situation in Cincy. You guys think he would have been the week one starter over Palmer?

SolidGold
08-18-2011, 11:40 AM
Goodell also has to look out for the good of the league to make sure it keeps bringing in money and maintains a certain image to protect the brand. Vick coming back to the NFL after a 2 year stint in federal prison was somewhat of a dicey situation publicity wise. Most people did not approve of Vick and the dog-fighting charges and Philly provided him an option where he could be brought back into the public eye with a team and staff that were able to help him out.

Oh yea and Vick cares about being in the right situation because in the end its his life and career.

yo123
08-18-2011, 11:46 AM
On ESPN, Adam Schefter just reported that... (paraphrasing here)

'Others involved in the situation said that Vick is just not remembering clearly, and that he wanted to go to Philly all along.'


Unless Vick is the biggest moron ever or secretly has been snorting lines with Michael Irvin I think he would remember where he wanted to go 2 years ago.

yo123
08-18-2011, 11:47 AM
Goodell also has to look out for the good of the league to make sure it keeps bringing in money and maintains a certain image to protect the brand. Vick coming back to the NFL after a 2 year stint in federal prison was somewhat of a dicey situation publicity wise. Most people did not approve of Vick and the dog-fighting charges and Philly provided him an option where he could be brought back into the public eye with a team and staff that were able to help him out.

Oh yea and Vick cares about being in the right situation because in the end its his life and career.


Nothing that you posted there could not have been done in Buffalo. Philly is a bigger market, that's why it was done.

superman8456
08-18-2011, 11:52 AM
I don't think Vick would have come back to be half the QB he is right now if he signed with another team.

Tony Dungy, the Eagles coaching staff and a little of McNabb's mentoring changed Michael Vick's work ethic and pretty much everything about his game.

yo123
08-18-2011, 11:54 AM
I don't think Vick would have come back to be half the QB he is right now if he signed with another team.

Tony Dungy, the Eagles coaching staff and a little of McNabb's mentoring changed Michael Vick's work ethic and pretty much everything about his game.


How is that relevant? It's not in any way Goodell's job to put players in the right situation to be good players.

SolidGold
08-18-2011, 11:55 AM
Buffalo is not the most stable of franchises coaching wise. No one knew in 2009 that in 2010 Gailey was going to be the head coach. Reid and his staff were better prepared to help develop Vick's game. Do you really think he would be the same player in Buffalo's offense that he is Philly now?

yo123
08-18-2011, 11:57 AM
Buffalo is not the most stable of franchises coaching wise. No one knew in 2009 that in 2010 Gailey was going to be the head coach. Reid and his staff were better prepared to help develop Vick's game. Do you really think he would be the same player in Buffalo's offense that he is Philly now?


See my post above yours. The type of player Michael Vick became or would have become in Buffalo is absolutely irrelevant because that is not Roger Goodell's place to have any impact on that.

SolidGold
08-18-2011, 12:00 PM
Goodell, Joel Segal, DeMaurice Smith and Tony Dungy all had a part in this. They were looking at a situation where Vick could be successful again in the NFL. Think of it as probation.

Saints-Tigers
08-18-2011, 12:04 PM
You're missing the point so bad that I have to think you are being willfully ignorant.

yo123
08-18-2011, 12:06 PM
Goodell, Joel Segal, DeMaurice Smith and Tony Dungy all had a part in this. They were looking at a situation where Vick could be successful again in the NFL. Think of it as probation.

Why can't he serve his "probation" in Buffalo? Or Cincinatti? Or anywhere else? You still haven't answered why it's Goodell's concern whether or not he becomes a good player.

Saints-Tigers
08-18-2011, 12:07 PM
Every prospect in the draft should be placed in a spot where they will thrive I think!

redbills
08-18-2011, 12:10 PM
Vick + Chan = Winning

F you Goodell, I hope you choke on a male chicken.

bearsfan_51
08-18-2011, 12:10 PM
Think of it as probation.
Think of it as tampering.

OSUGiants17
08-18-2011, 12:29 PM
Every prospect in the draft should be placed in a spot where they will thrive I think!

in that case, reverse the draft order, let the good prospects go to good teams and the bad one's go to bad teams

Think of it as tampering.
QFT

Bills2083
08-18-2011, 12:29 PM
I don't think Vick would have come back to be half the QB he is right now if he signed with another team.

Tony Dungy, the Eagles coaching staff and a little of McNabb's mentoring changed Michael Vick's work ethic and pretty much everything about his game.

So what? That doesn't matter in the slightest. Why should Vick resurrecting his career take precedence over Goodell tampering with the NFL?

Buffalo is not the most stable of franchises coaching wise. No one knew in 2009 that in 2010 Gailey was going to be the head coach. Reid and his staff were better prepared to help develop Vick's game. Do you really think he would be the same player in Buffalo's offense that he is Philly now?

No. But that is relevant to nothing. It does not matter what type of player Vick was when he returned to the NFL.

Goodell, Joel Segal, DeMaurice Smith and Tony Dungy all had a part in this. They were looking at a situation where Vick could be successful again in the NFL. Think of it as probation.

Why does it matter so much if Vick is successful in the NFL. Once he is reinstated, he is allowed to sign with all 32 NFL teams. The commissioner should have absolutely no say whatsoever. If he didn't want the chance of him signing in Cincy/Buffalo, there's a simple solution: Don't reinstate him.

Goodell also has to look out for the good of the league to make sure it keeps bringing in money and maintains a certain image to protect the brand. Vick coming back to the NFL after a 2 year stint in federal prison was somewhat of a dicey situation publicity wise. Most people did not approve of Vick and the dog-fighting charges and Philly provided him an option where he could be brought back into the public eye with a team and staff that were able to help him out.

Oh yea and Vick cares about being in the right situation because in the end its his life and career.

Like I said before. Goodell should have no say in where he signs. If he's worried about public image, don't reinstate him. Period.

Shane P. Hallam
08-18-2011, 12:39 PM
Goodell didn't have a say. He didn't force him to sign with the Eagles. Should he have suggested it? Maybe not, but if Vick really wanted to go to Buffalo or Cincy, Goodell couldn't and wouldn't have stopped him.

SolidGold
08-18-2011, 12:56 PM
You're missing the point so bad that I have to think you are being willfully ignorant.

My bad. I just don't think its as black/white as some people make it out to be. I do not think Goodell strong handed Vick and said its Philly or bust. It was probably presented as the best option for him. Like shane said he would of signed off if Vick chose anywhere.

Saints-Tigers
08-18-2011, 12:59 PM
Then shouldn't owners be able to tell other players that it would be best if they forced a trade to their team?

They can't make them force the trade.

bearsfan_51
08-18-2011, 01:00 PM
Goodell didn't have a say. He didn't force him to sign with the Eagles. Should he have suggested it? Maybe not, but if Vick really wanted to go to Buffalo or Cincy, Goodell couldn't and wouldn't have stopped him.
Maybe? Seriously? Give me one reason why Goodell, as commissioner of the NFL, should have any input on where a player should sign.

someone447
08-18-2011, 01:00 PM
I don't believe that Goodell gave a **** if Vick became a good player. I think that Goodell wanted Vick to go somewhere with stability, leadership, and mentors. Not so he would become a good QB again, but so he would have a much better chance of staying completely out of trouble. There was an article on ESPN that I thought summed it up quite well. Andy Reid's son has had legal troubles, Reid has had to handle serious legal troubles in his own family; what coach is more qualified to handle Vick getting out of prison and put Vick in position to succeed(and by succeed, I don't mean as an all-pro. If you guys remember a couple years ago no one believed Vick would turn into anything but a backup who occasionally got in as a change of pace. A great many people on this board were calling for him to be moved to running back.) Goodell wanted Vick to go to a place where he could go from a PR nightmare to a story of redemption and show that yes, Goodell does have a heart.

I have no problem with this, as long as he didn't tell him he wouldn't be reinstated if he went to Cincy or Buffalo.

FTRWRTR
08-18-2011, 01:02 PM
On ESPN, Adam Schefter just reported that... (paraphrasing here)

'Others involved in the situation said that Vick is just not remembering clearly, and that he wanted to go to Philly all along.'Now, THAT'S funny.

FTRWRTR
08-18-2011, 01:05 PM
Maybe? Seriously? Give me one reason why Goodell, as commissioner of the NFL, should have any input on where a player should sign.How do we know that vick didn't ask for Goodell's opinion? Commish or not he's still entitled to his opinion and to give it if asked.

SolidGold
08-18-2011, 01:06 PM
Then shouldn't owners be able to tell other players that it would be best if they forced a trade to their team?

They can't make them force the trade.

Vick was released by the Falcons though, he was technically a free agent. I don't see how this would apply to Vick's situation.

bearsfan_51
08-18-2011, 01:08 PM
Commish or not he's still entitled to his opinion and to give it if asked.
No, he's really not. He works for all of the NFL owners. He shouldn't have any input whatsoever regarding free agency. I can't believe people are actually arguing otherwise. I can only believe that they simply don't understand the ramifications of what they are saying.

SolidGold
08-18-2011, 01:14 PM
No, he's really not. He works for all of the NFL owners. He shouldn't have any input whatsoever regarding free agency. I can't believe people are actually arguing otherwise. I can only believe that they simply don't understand the ramifications of what they are saying.

So did you just start this thread and expect everyone to agree with you?

someone447
08-18-2011, 01:14 PM
No, he's really not. He works for all of the NFL owners. He shouldn't have any input whatsoever regarding free agency. I can't believe people are actually arguing otherwise. I can only believe that they simply don't understand the ramifications of what they are saying.

I'm much more concerned about the Pryor decision and the NFL deciding they can enforce NCAA suspensions...

I understand completely the ramifications of what I have been saying. Goodell needed Vick to go somewhere he could succeed as a person, which would give a huge PR boost to the NFL. Almost no one believed Vick would do anything after getting out of prison.

Goodell did this because it was a very dicey situation, there was A LOT that could go wrong, and very little that could go right.

bearsfan_51
08-18-2011, 01:16 PM
So did you just start this thread and expect everyone to agree with you?
On this occasion, yes.

Some threads are for topics of debate. Some threads are more informative. I posted this so that everyone was aware what a stupid and awful thing had happened. I didn't assume anyone would read it and think, "yeah that makes sense."

I didn't even consider what I was saying was really an argument, per se.

SolidGold
08-18-2011, 01:19 PM
I don't think it makes complete sense but it also has to be taken in the context of the situation. Someone447's post right above your post sums it up best.

Saints-Tigers
08-18-2011, 01:27 PM
Vick was released by the Falcons though, he was technically a free agent. I don't see how this would apply to Vick's situation.


So can Goodell recommend that all FA's go to a certain team if he wants? Maybe he should recommend that guys start signing in Philly for the league minimum, because it would be good for the league.

Giantsfan1080
08-18-2011, 01:31 PM
We already have an agent in bed with the Eagles we don't need the commish to be either.

Raiderz4Life
08-18-2011, 01:35 PM
So can Goodell recommend that all FA's go to a certain team if he wants? Maybe he should recommend that guys start signing in Philly for the league minimum, because it would be good for the league.

Vick was a special case. IDC how you wanna slice and dice it, it wasn't the common FA.

I'm not saying I agree with Goodell or anything, but your comment just doesn't make any sense.

D-Unit
08-18-2011, 01:46 PM
Something should happen, but nothing will happen. We just have to suck it up.

bearsfan_51
08-18-2011, 01:49 PM
Something should happen, but nothing will happen. We just have to suck it up.
tIr1VrgZHd0
Don't ever give up.

Shane P. Hallam
08-18-2011, 02:33 PM
Maybe? Seriously? Give me one reason why Goodell, as commissioner of the NFL, should have any input on where a player should sign.

He didn't have any input. He made a suggestion, no one's hand was forced. I think it is an overreaction myself.

niel89
08-18-2011, 02:39 PM
I'm much more concerned about the Pryor decision and the NFL deciding they can enforce NCAA suspensions...

I understand completely the ramifications of what I have been saying. Goodell needed Vick to go somewhere he could succeed as a person, which would give a huge PR boost to the NFL. Almost no one believed Vick would do anything after getting out of prison.

Goodell did this because it was a very dicey situation, there was A LOT that could go wrong, and very little that could go right.

I agree. Vick was a unique situation. No one thought that Vick would amount to anything. He needed to land with a great stable franchise, with solid coaches and little pressure for him to be the starter. The guy just needed time to get back to being an NFL player again.

Vick was a terrible situation to deal with coming out of prison because he was a face of the league in the worse way. How people viewed Vick greatly affected how they view the league. It was a huge undertaking to get Vick back to being viewed in a positive light.

Do I think that the commish should steer players on a regular basis? Absolutely not. I also don't think he even forced Vick in the slightest. Goodell tried to do what he thought was best for the league as a whole with a very difficult situation. I don't think this means that Goodell is going to start sending players to the teams he chooses all the time at all. To me it seems like he was trying to the best he could with a disgraced superstar who embarrassed the league and himself.

Saints-Tigers
08-18-2011, 02:42 PM
I don't understand how we can justify the Commish giving advice to players on where they should sign..

tjsunstein
08-18-2011, 02:46 PM
He didn't have any input. He made a suggestion, no one's hand was forced. I think it is an overreaction myself.
A suggestion isn't input?

Cudders
08-18-2011, 02:46 PM
I don't believe that Goodell gave a **** if Vick became a good player. I think that Goodell wanted Vick to go somewhere with stability, leadership, and mentors. Not so he would become a good QB again, but so he would have a much better chance of staying completely out of trouble. There was an article on ESPN that I thought summed it up quite well. Andy Reid's son has had legal troubles, Reid has had to handle serious legal troubles in his own family; what coach is more qualified to handle Vick getting out of prison and put Vick in position to succeed(and by succeed, I don't mean as an all-pro. If you guys remember a couple years ago no one believed Vick would turn into anything but a backup who occasionally got in as a change of pace. A great many people on this board were calling for him to be moved to running back.) Goodell wanted Vick to go to a place where he could go from a PR nightmare to a story of redemption and show that yes, Goodell does have a heart.

I have no problem with this, as long as he didn't tell him he wouldn't be reinstated if he went to Cincy or Buffalo.

Quite frankly, none of that is the point though. The point is that Goodell, who is employed by the owners of all thirty-two teams, advised a player to sign with one franchise over another. I don't care that Philadelphia was actually the best situation for him to resuscitate his career. That's for Vick and his agent to decide, not the commissioner of the NFL. And his subsequent success there is completely irrelevant in this argument. Sure, most people thought Vick would be a sideshow. But, no matter how you try and spin it, Goodell's behavior in this situation is absolutely inexcusable. He should have the common sense to recuse himself from advocating over a player's free agency. It's really not asking much.

Bottom-line: The commissioner has no place lobbying for select teams in free agency. He needs to be impartial on all matters involving player movement. How exactly can he maintain his objectivity when he's doing something like this?

Also, Goodell doesn't need to show players he has a heart. That's not in his job description. He doesn't need to love players. Just like players don't need to love him.

And, if I'm in Vick's position, I'm going to listen carefully to Goodell's "advice" because he's pretty much got me by the balls. What am I supposed to say to the commissioner? "Gee, Rodge, thanks for the reinstatement, but I don't really want to subject myself to Andy Reid's time management skills or watch McNabb leave tons of plays on the field or be third-string behind some guy that hasn't done anything. I think I'd much rather go to Buffalo or Cincinnati."?

I'm much more concerned about the Pryor decision and the NFL deciding they can enforce NCAA suspensions...

I understand completely the ramifications of what I have been saying. Goodell needed Vick to go somewhere he could succeed as a person, which would give a huge PR boost to the NFL. Almost no one believed Vick would do anything after getting out of prison.

Goodell did this because it was a very dicey situation, there was A LOT that could go wrong, and very little that could go right.

Once again, it's not Goodell's place to decide where Vick could or couldn't succeed as a person.

If Goodell was so worried about the public image of the NFL when he reinstated Vick that he felt compelled to interfere and tamper with his future, then perhaps he shouldn't have reinstated him at all.

bearsfan_51
08-18-2011, 02:49 PM
I like this guy.

bucfan12
08-18-2011, 03:00 PM
I still don't think Goodell should have or even make any suggestions regarding where a player will play. As much as it was a smart decision not to join Cincy(I mean look at how they discipline there), don't influence a player on where he should play.

That was Dungy's job, who mentored him throughout the process.

Shane P. Hallam
08-18-2011, 03:00 PM
A suggestion isn't input?

Not always, but just definition of terms.

D-Unit
08-18-2011, 03:10 PM
It's a suggestion from a guy who's saying "I'll let you back in if you do this this and this..."

"...oh and btw, I have a suggestion..."

Did Vick really have a choice?

Jvig43
08-18-2011, 03:11 PM
This really doesn't change my opinion on my feelings towards Goodell. He still needs to die in a fire, but as others have stated, nothing will come of this.

Raiderz4Life
08-18-2011, 03:13 PM
This really doesn't change my opinion on my feelings towards Goodell. He still needs to die in a fire, but as others have stated, nothing will come of this.

QFT.

Pretty much sums up how I feel.

BigBanger
08-18-2011, 04:09 PM
It's a suggestion from a guy who's saying "I'll let you back in if you do this this and this..."

"...oh and btw, I have a suggestion..."

Did Vick really have a choice?
"This and this" for reinstatement was more to the effect of shootings at his house during birthday parties, dogs being raped and then bred to fight, which leads to money, money exchanged, dispute over money, alcohol + drug activity and black-thug-like behavior, which would then lead to more fights / shootings / stabbings at his house. And that's really not good publicity for the NFL.

That is, generally speaking, the kind of POS Mike Vick was before he got locked up. So in that regard, the two are going to share a lot of conversations about his future. They're going to talk about being reinstated, then the conversation might further into where he'll play, what teams are interested.

There are too many "what if" scenarios and not enough details to know how this conversation(s) played out, and since most of us all hate Goodell, we tend to believe that the closest thing we've seen to the devil is doing just another scumbag move that has no interest for the player, but solely for monetary reasons.

If Roger said, "It's Philadelphia or you're not playing in the NFL." Then there is a gripe and the word "tampering" could be used. Telling a player that he would be best suited for a certain team ... well, anyone could have told him that Philadelphia was a much better place than Buffalo or Cincinnati. This is not inside information or something like that. Since Mike Vick is a selfish person, he obviously wouldn't want to be apart of a winning team and have to compete for a job. He expects things to be given to him. So if the conversation was more about what would be in his best interest, and Philly was, obviously, the best team for him, then there's really nothing here that makes this story a story. Literally, anyone could have told him Philly is a better place then Buffalo. Anyone could have told him that. Because it's Roger Goodell, I'm supposed to care?

So, I'm sure Mike Vick had a choice in the matter. If he listened and did something unselfish based on the advice or suggestion of Roger? I don't see how this is a bad thing.

Roger, for once, is not in the wrong here.

bearsfan_51
08-18-2011, 04:15 PM
... well, anyone could have told him that Philadelphia was a much better place than Buffalo or Cincinnati. This is not inside information or something like that. Since Mike Vick is a selfish person, he obviously wouldn't want to be apart of a winning team and have to compete for a job. He expects things to be given to him. So if the conversation was more about what would be in his best interest, and Philly was, obviously, the best team for him, then there's really nothing here that makes this story a story. Literally, anyone could have told him Philly is a better place then Buffalo. Anyone could have told him that. Because it's Roger Goodell, I'm supposed to care?
Then let literally anyone else in the world tell him that but the commissioner of the league, who is employed by both Mike Brown and Ralph Wilson. It's a total and obvious conflict of interest.

yo123
08-18-2011, 04:17 PM
Really the only thing that needs to be said here is this sets a precedent that could theoretically completely and utterly destroy the competitive balance of the league. That's irrefutable and I share bf's amazement that this argument is happening right now.

yo123
08-18-2011, 04:23 PM
as an addendum to the above: do you honestly believe that there's currently no collusion whatsoever, in the interest of enhancing league value? do you think dan snyder gives a toss that his team hasn't been competitive in decades?


There is collusion sure, but I think I'm more than justified in saying that when the commissioner gets involved it steps over the line. And also just because it happens doesn't mean we shouldn't care about it and it's no big deal when someone gets caught.

bearsfan_51
08-18-2011, 04:24 PM
njx, even if you accept the premise (and it's persuasive), then Gooddell should STILL be fired for letting the cat out of the bag.

Raiderz4Life
08-18-2011, 04:25 PM
Well technically it wasn't Gooddell who let cat out, was Mike. But he should be fired any way.

Shane P. Hallam
08-18-2011, 04:26 PM
We don't even know the context of the conversation. What if Vick had asked Goodell his opinion of the Eagles organization? Is he supposed to keep his mouth shut if he thinks it is a good organization and the best option? I can see situations where it isn't a big deal.

bearsfan_51
08-18-2011, 04:29 PM
We don't even know the context of the conversation. What if Vick had asked Goodell his opinion of the Eagles organization? Is he supposed to keep his mouth shut if he thinks it is a good organization and the best option? I can see situations where it isn't a big deal.
Yes. He should. Everyone has things they aren't allowed to give their opinions on as a condition of their employment. As the commish, he should be above these situations, regardless of any circumstance.

I honestly think the only debate is if he should be fired over this, and I don't even think that's much of a debate. njx is right, though, as long as the owners are making money they probably don't give a flip.

CC.SD
08-18-2011, 04:45 PM
I see why people are angry about this but realistically Cincy wouldn't have even tried to franchise Vick last year so he would be an ex-bengal already, and Buffalo probably would have put him at corner or something. So really it's okay, Philly is where he belongs right now.

niel89
08-18-2011, 04:46 PM
I actually agree that Goodell shouldn't be directing players. Thats not his job and is not what he should be doing. I believe what he did is wrong but I honestly don't think will have that big of an impact in the long run. I just don't think the sky is falling. Goodell isn't going to be playing matchmaker every offseason.

descendency
08-18-2011, 05:03 PM
I actually agree that Goodell shouldn't be directing players. Thats not his job and is not what he should be doing. I believe what he did is wrong but I honestly don't think will have that big of an impact in the long run. I just don't think the sky is falling. Goodell isn't going to be playing matchmaker every offseason.

Goddell's job is to make the owners the largest profit possible. Michael Vick is a celebrity (infamous, albeit). If he comes into the league and cleans up, it's a great story. Clearly that sells a lot better than "QB Dog Killer Strikes Again".

I definitely don't like it, but I can see how Goddell may have felt he needed to do something.

Shane P. Hallam
08-18-2011, 05:38 PM
Vick, the NFL, and the writer of the story all saying Goodell didn't actually advise him or recommend to Vick to go the Philly. Looks like it's going to die as a story.

Halsey
08-18-2011, 06:02 PM
Poor Michael Vicktim. He's being forced to play in Philly instead of having the privaledge to play in Cinncy or Buffalo. :( The Man is keeping Vick down!

gpngc
08-18-2011, 09:00 PM
We don't even know the context of the conversation. What if Vick had asked Goodell his opinion of the Eagles organization? Is he supposed to keep his mouth shut if he thinks it is a good organization and the best option? I can see situations where it isn't a big deal.

No. EVERYONE KNOWS GOODELL TOLLLLLLLLLLLLD HIM TO GO TO PHILLY BECAUSE GOODELL HATES KEVIN KOLB AND NEEDS PHILLLY TO BE GOOD IN ORDER FOR HIS SUFFERING LEAGUE TO SURVIVE. IF BUFFALO OR CINCY IS TAKING A PLAYOFF SPOT ITS VERRRRRRRRRY BAD FOR THIS QUICKLY-DYING LEAGUE. THIS IS SO OBVIOUS HOW DO YOU NOT SEE IT.

The words advised, convinced, suggested, and instructed are being thrown around here together a lot for people who weren't there. It's quite possible the conversation went down like this.

RG: How are you, etc. What teams have contacted you, etc.

MV: Buffalo, Cincy, etc. I want to start.

RG: There may be a lot of pressure in a situation like that, starting right away. You might need some time to get your legs back, re-adjust to the game, and more importantly get your life back on track.

MV: You're right. What do you think I should do.

RG: A situation with more stability might be a better idea. A place like Philly with coach Reid, NE with Belichick, etc. etc.

**This entirely possible scenario (or something similar) shows nothing malicious and the commish caring for his player as a person.

Should Roger Goodell have influenced Nnamdi or DeAngelo in their decisions? No. Could he have? Sure, the players are his employees - he can advise them. Should he have advised Michael Vick, a clearly troubled guy in a completely different situation from regular free agents? I'm not sure, but his INTENTION was to do right by Vick.

You can't possibly believe that Goodell's motivation here was to get Vick to Philly because somehow that's better for the league. He felt is was better for Vick. The Packers are a small market team, INSANE National (not local) TV contracts, the NFL arrow ALWAYS pointing up, there was no conspiracy to keep Vick in the spotlight. Two reasons: 1) Had he starred in Buffalo, the jersey's would still sell, the Bills would still generate interest, they'd get National TV games - the NFL would still reap the benefits of Vick's stardom. 2) At that point, all signs pointed to Kevin Kolb taking over for McNabb. I highly, highly doubt Goodell was in cahoots with Reid all along and Reid told him "Kolb sucks, force Vick to sign here PLZ." At that point the NFL was still alive and well in big market north east Philly, as Iggles fans were hopeful that the QB guru got his guy a few years previously when they shocked everyone in the draft.

Finally, the main point is what a couple of people made already. It was ultimately Vick's decision. He could have gone to BUF or CIN. The only way this would be a real story with negative implications is if Vick revealed he was FORCED to go to Philly.

bearsfan_51
08-18-2011, 09:07 PM
Should Roger Goodell have influenced Nnamdi or DeAngelo in their decisions? No. Could he have? Sure, the players are his employees - he can advise them.
You don't know what a commissioner is, do you?

The players work for the owners. The commissioner works for the owners.

A commissioner comes from the word commission, meaning an order and authority to do something. The commissioner is granted powers by the owners to regulate their league (which is why it is so important that he be impartial), but he doesn't pay the players, and he can't hire or fire the players.

gpngc
08-18-2011, 09:09 PM
You don't know what a commissioner is, do you?

The players work for the owners. The commissioner works for the owners.

A commissioner comes from the word commission, meaning an order and authority to do something. The commissioner is granted powers by the owners to regulate their league (which is why it is so important that he be impartial), but he doesn't pay the players, and he can't hire or fire the players.

Way to focus on the wording of something that doesn't change the point. The players are not his direct employees but they are all connected in the same work environment.

What is your point? What is his motivation for this "tampering?"

bearsfan_51
08-18-2011, 09:10 PM
What? Goodell isn't the boss of the owners. They give him the authority and they can take it away.

He's more like a really powerful cop.

CC.SD
08-18-2011, 09:14 PM
Vick, the NFL, and the writer of the story all saying Goodell didn't actually advise him or recommend to Vick to go the Philly. Looks like it's going to die as a story.

This will never die as a story as long as Goodell is commish. NFL fans are angry at him for literally a laundry list of reasons but influencing free agents is sticky reputation-wise and will be pinned on him forever.

bearsfan_51
08-18-2011, 09:19 PM
Way to focus on the wording of something that doesn't change the point. The players are not his direct employees but they are all connected in the same work environment.
Well it proves that you don't understand how all of this works. The power dynamic is important. If Goodell actually was the boss of the owners, and not vice-versa, this wouldn't be such a problem.

What is his motivation for this "tampering?"
My guess is that he's arrogant and made a stupid mistake. But I honestly don't know, that's for him to answer, if he wasn't in denial mode.

Saints-Tigers
08-18-2011, 09:21 PM
I am a big fan of Mike Vick, I happen to like the Eagles and the organization, I think it is an outstanding fit, and I'm happy that it worked for all sides. I think Vick doing well is a really good thing for the league, and for a lot of other reasons.

But this is still wrong on so many levels. Shane, I totally disagree, there is NO circumstance where the commissioner should advise any player on where he should sign.

Saints-Tigers
08-18-2011, 09:22 PM
Poor Michael Vicktim. He's being forced to play in Philly instead of having the privaledge to play in Cinncy or Buffalo. :( The Man is keeping Vick down!

If he didn't let him go to Philly, he might not be so much better than Matt Ryan. You should be mad =/

gpngc
08-18-2011, 09:22 PM
This will never die as a story as long as Goodell is commish. NFL fans are angry at him for literally a laundry list of reasons but influencing free agents is sticky reputation-wise and will be pinned on him forever.

1 - This will die as a story very quickly. I guarantee you no one brings this up a year from now. It will probably be a non-story by Week 1.

2 - I'm an NFL fan. I'm not mad at him for anything. Here's what I think other fans are mad at.

*Rule changes* ALL of which emphasize player safety. His intent is good.

*Player discipline* He uses his power subjectively to discipline players who break the law or get in trouble. He wants players to make good decisions and keep their lives on track. He also holds them to a high standard because they are role models. Some claim it to harsh and inconsistent, so it's deemed unfair to certain teams. His intent though is for the NFL to be clean and respected off-the-field. Give me a specific example where he was completely unfair - and remember that YOU DON'T have ALL the facts that factored into his decision.

*The Lockout* People were pissed, which is understandable. Goodell was viewed as the face of the owners, and may have been just as greedy as them. Ultimately, he worked it out and the cost was ONE ******* PRESEASON GAME.

*Please add to this laundry list*

Saints-Tigers
08-18-2011, 09:24 PM
It's not player safety that we get mad about, it's the fact that Roger Goodell is only concerned about player safety when it's his money makers. Why don't we have a rule about not being able to tap offensive linemen on top of their head?

bearsfan_51
08-18-2011, 09:25 PM
Actually I didn't have a problem with Goodell before this. All of his other actions fit nicely within his role as commissioner. I don't like the practice regulations, but that was what the NFLPA wanted, not Goodell.

gpngc
08-18-2011, 09:26 PM
It's not player safety that we get mad about, it's the fact that Roger Goodell is only concerned about player safety when it's his money makers. Why don't we have a rule about not being able to tap offensive linemen on top of their head?

The Kickoff team is his money-makers?

Saints-Tigers
08-18-2011, 09:27 PM
The Kickoff team is his money-makers?


Bill Polian

CC.SD
08-18-2011, 09:32 PM
1 - This will die as a story very quickly. I guarantee you no one brings this up a year from now. It will probably be a non-story by Week 1.

2 - I'm an NFL fan. I'm not mad at him for anything. Here's what I think other fans are mad at.

*Rule changes* ALL of which emphasize player safety. His intent is good.

*Player discipline* He uses his power subjectively to discipline players who break the law or get in trouble. He wants players to make good decisions and keep their lives on track. He also holds them to a high standard because they are role models. Some claim it to harsh and inconsistent, so it's deemed unfair to certain teams. His intent though is for the NFL to be clean and respected off-the-field. Give me a specific example where he was completely unfair - and remember that YOU DON'T have ALL the facts that factored into his decision.

*The Lockout* People were pissed, which is understandable. Goodell was viewed as the face of the owners, and may have been just as greedy as them. Ultimately, he worked it out and the cost was ONE ******* PRESEASON GAME.

*Please add to this laundry list*

OK well you are seriously dismissing the way his *Player Discipline* issue is being looked at because it's a huge race issue. Players are openly discussing the fact that Goodell is fining the hell out of black players and protecting white players. It's OBVIOUSLY BS I do not agree with it at all, but that's how it is being perceived. That alone is hugely, fatally, detrimental to Goodell's public perception, IMO.

Now here he is directing players, which arguably is an attack on the game's legitimacy. And everyone knows if something even smells like the game is being tampered with, it is a very big deal. Anyway Goodell has seriously been a terrible commissioner if you ask me and I think he's still on the way down. He took big hits on the entire Pac-Man debacle and the 18 game season too, he can't catch a break, because everything he does is stupid. Yay NFL should get into England, oh wait.

gpngc
08-18-2011, 09:59 PM
I don't think I've heard the "player discipline is a race issue" thing once. I also don't think any white players have ever been disciplined. Maybe I don't watch enough "yelling at each other about off-the-field sports stories and not actual games" shows on ESPN.

Here he is allegedly ADVISING ONE player - in a very unique and volatile situation. Not DIRECTING PLAYERS.

I'm not sure what hits he took on the Pac-Man situation (from letting him back in or b/c he was too harsh? I really don't remember - either way one side is going to be pissed), but the important thing to note is that Pac-Man was being a dick - Goodell was trying to do his job dealing with a tough situation.

18 game season makes sense from his perspective. And it's completely understandable that the players don't want it. He wouldn't be doing his job if he wasn't at least having that dialogue. What exactly did he do terribly by proposing the idea (as far as we know) and having it rejected? Again, it's important to strive to better the league (and this was for the fans, too - those two preseason games would become real tickets).

England - I don't really know the whole story but looking into spreading the league internationally is the work of a TERRIBLE commisioner how?

CC.SD
08-18-2011, 10:10 PM
I don't think I've heard the "player discipline is a race issue" thing once. I also don't think any white players have ever been disciplined. Maybe I don't watch enough "yelling at each other about off-the-field sports stories and not actual games" shows on ESPN.

Here he is allegedly ADVISING ONE player - in a very unique and volatile situation. Not DIRECTING PLAYERS.

I'm not sure what hits he took on the Pac-Man situation (from letting him back in or b/c he was too harsh? I really don't remember - either way one side is going to be pissed), but the important thing to note is that Pac-Man was being a dick - Goodell was trying to do his job dealing with a tough situation.

18 game season makes sense from his perspective. And it's completely understandable that the players don't want it. He wouldn't be doing his job if he wasn't at least having that dialogue. What exactly did he do terribly by proposing the idea (as far as we know) and having it rejected? Again, it's important to strive to better the league (and this was for the fans, too - those two preseason games would become real tickets).

England - I don't really know the whole story but looking into spreading the league internationally is the work of a TERRIBLE commisioner how?

Weeeee

If you don't think player discipline is a race issue, that's fine it's good you know no white players have been fined though. I think the players have noticed it too and more than just James Harrison who is probably nuts.

I'm not sure what hits he took on the Pac-Man situation (from letting him back in or b/c he was too harsh? I really don't remember - either way one side is going to be pissed), but the important thing to note is that Pac-Man was being a dick - Goodell was trying to do his job dealing with a tough situation.

Well here he is in this paragraph on both sides of a PR nightmare which Goodell himself would tell you made the NFL look bad every step.

18 game season, quashed, it's not his job to fail. Stupid idea from the beginning, really. He'll keep trying. Fail after fail with Goodell, I think it's so obvious but I'm glad there's perspectives.

England was a joke although obviously right now it's not looking like a great investment. Will the nfl go back to england? It was worth it to learn Channing Crowder couldn't find England on a map.

I give Goodell props for making changes to rookie salaries.

Shane P. Hallam
08-18-2011, 10:21 PM
Yup no white played has ever been fined or suspended. Oh wait, Matt Jones existed didn't he?

CC.SD
08-18-2011, 10:27 PM
Yup no white played has ever been fined or suspended. Oh wait, Matt Jones existed didn't he?

LOL barely counts as a player, but you're right, that's not really my point though jbbbbbbb

Complex
08-18-2011, 10:35 PM
Jared Allen suspension dig get reduced after his DUI, I think.

OzTitan
08-19-2011, 12:39 AM
ESPN is an NFL lapdog. Playmakers' swift demise, anyone?

niel89
08-19-2011, 02:07 AM
I still miss Playmakers. That show was pretty good.

Ness
08-19-2011, 02:49 AM
*Rule changes* ALL of which emphasize player safety. His intent is good.



It's football. It's a contact sport. Players know what they are signing up for when they join the NFL. If Roger Goodell could make the game flag football while still making a decent amount of revenue, he'd do it in a flash. He doesn't care about the integrity of the game, just money.

E_Nlez1Gs3I

TitanHope
08-20-2011, 12:18 AM
Michael Vick: "I have offers from Buffalo, Cincinnati, and Philadelphia."

Roger Goodell: "All three would be equally great choices."

Michael Vick: "Even Philadelphia? There's more competition there than at Buffalo or Cincinnati."

Roger Goodell: "True, but it's a very stable situation with Andy Reid coaching there for as long as he has. All three have their own benefits and downsides. It just depends on what you think is most important to you."

This is basically the only scenario where this is remotely acceptable, and only as long as he doesn't steer the player towards a certain team. He's supposed to represent the entire league, so if there's an instance like this where he's met repeatedly with a player in order to evaluate him, which I suppose could lead to a role where he becomes an advisor for the player in regards to his off-the-field life, I expect him to represent all sides equally, objectively, and only at the request of the player if the player asks for advice. As the commissioner who answers to 32 owners, he should represent all and never be preferrential to one over the other. I want to know what Ralph Wilson and Mike Brown have to say knowing it's possible that Goodell represented Jeff Lurie's team better than their's. Wilson and Brown help pay Goodell's salary too.

I hope "convinced" is just another way of Vick saying Goodell helped to open his mind in regards to potential destinations, and it wasn't until he did that that he became more inclined to sign with Philly. But overall, I think the commish should stay out of it in regards to players making career decisions. It just lends itself to corruption, I think.