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View Full Version : Teams Constantly Neglecting Needs


DI
08-22-2011, 02:51 PM
Wasn't sure to put this here or in the draft forum but whatever. I just find this weird that when you look at team needs for certain teams, they've been needs for a good amount of seasons now and they've been basically overlooked, if not ignored, when it comes to the draft. For instance, my Giants. We've needed linebacker help for a little while now but we haven't gone for it. We've signed Michael Boley and guys like Keith Bulluck and Danny Clark at the end of their careers and then have drafted some in later rounds, hoping to catch lightning in a bottle with the likes of Jonathan Goff, Philip Dillard, Clint Sintim, Greg Jones, etc. We've passed up on the likes of guys such as Jon Beason and Paul Posluszny. I know it all depends on who's available as well but I feel like there are just teams that have needs that have neglected them, such as the Jets and a pass rusher on the outside or the Lions at Offensive Tackle or Buffalo at Quarterback. Thoughts?

fenikz
08-22-2011, 02:53 PM
Cardinals O-Line

Ness
08-22-2011, 02:54 PM
49ers - Quarterback.

Funny, because if we get that one position fixed I think we're good.

BigBanger
08-22-2011, 02:54 PM
Cardinals O-Line
They passed on Adrian Peterson for OLine ... The Cardinals are just stupid, incompetent ******* morons.

Shane P. Hallam
08-22-2011, 02:54 PM
I think this happens for two reasons:

1. Coaches/GMs value and devalue certain positions.

EXAMPLE: Jim Schwartz and Martin Mayhew for the Lions don't value the LT position. They see the Colts and Steelers get it down with average LT play and opt for playmaker instead.

2. Coaches/GMs know their strengths/weaknesses drafting.

EXAMPLE: Andy Reid doesn't draft LBs. Why? His talent evaluations aren't all that great. He nabs mid to late round guys to plug and play them, and it works. I also was in the belief that Scott Pioli found himself in this situation at skill positions (up until this year).

V.I.P
08-22-2011, 02:55 PM
Bucs, O-Line.

Funny, because if we get that one position fixed I think we're good.

Ness
08-22-2011, 02:59 PM
You forgot one hyphen.

Razor
08-22-2011, 03:01 PM
New England Patriots - pass rusher

Belichick pretty much always takes the highest rated player on his board. Or at least, he does when he doesn't trade out of his spot. He takes the highest rated player because he doesn't like leaving talent that would make the team better long term for a player that fills a need but probably won't be as good a player as the highest rated player.. Jeez, does this make any sense? Anyways, that's why Belichick doesn't let needs dictate his drafts. He can always plug what holes he might have in free agency.

wordofi
08-22-2011, 03:02 PM
Cardinals O-Line

You finally admit it after you ripped me to shreads over this.

phlysac
08-22-2011, 03:07 PM
49ers - Quarterback.

Funny, because if we get that one position fixed I think we're good.

They drafted 3 QBs in 6 seasons.

Same can be said of O-Line. They had 3 1st rounders and 2 2nd rounders last year and still struggled.

The one thing that has been neglected as far as I'm concerned is continuity.

SuperMcGee
08-22-2011, 03:10 PM
I think offensive tackle is the bigger one for the Bills. Taking Chris Hairston in the 4th round this year was the earliest we've drafted a tackle since Mike Williams in '02. We had gotten lucky with undrafted Peters and 5th round Brad Butler, but lost both after only a couple years due to money and politics (sigh)

Quarterback, I don't see much there. Dareus was the best pick to make this year and I don't blame them for not seeing any of the guys in round 2 as deserving the franchise keys.

2010 was the big year for us to take a quarterback, and I would not have minded us doing so, at the time. But that's really the only year that I saw it as a viable option (that viable option being Jimmy Clausen, so meh). Losman and Edwards, admittedly through nothing more than mediocrity, somehow held off the need from being the most obvious/pressing need until past the 2009 draft. The past two years have been defensive foundation years that involved passing on guys who I don't see as franchise leaders.

We need a QB, very much so, but OT is in even worse shape and I can't fault the defensive revamp we've been doing. The Spiller pick, on the other hand, I have no comment for.

TheFinisher
08-22-2011, 03:32 PM
Dallas and their avoidance of upgrading the safety position, it's plagued us since Darren Woodson retired.

A Perfect Score
08-22-2011, 03:34 PM
Ozzie Newsome hates WRs and CBs.

Bills2083
08-22-2011, 03:35 PM
I think offensive tackle is the bigger one for the Bills. Taking Chris Hairston in the 4th round this year was the earliest we've drafted a tackle since Mike Williams in '02. We had gotten lucky with undrafted Peters and 5th round Brad Butler, but lost both after only a couple years due to money and politics (sigh)

Quarterback, I don't see much there. Dareus was the best pick to make this year and I don't blame them for not seeing any of the guys in round 2 as deserving the franchise keys.

2010 was the big year for us to take a quarterback, and I would not have minded us doing so, at the time. But that's really the only year that I saw it as a viable option (that viable option being Jimmy Clausen, so meh). Losman and Edwards, admittedly through nothing more than mediocrity, somehow held off the need from being the most obvious/pressing need until past the 2009 draft. The past two years have been defensive foundation years that involved passing on guys who I don't see as franchise leaders.

We need a QB, very much so, but OT is in even worse shape and I can't fault the defensive revamp we've been doing. The Spiller pick, on the other hand, I have no comment for.

Luckily next year is deep at the QB position (I think lol) so hopefully we can nab a QB in the 1st, then the top tackle in the 2nd. Basically what Atlanta did with Matt Ryan/Sam Baker. It seems like forever ago that we had a dominant Oline.

Shane P. Hallam
08-22-2011, 04:13 PM
Ozzie Newsome hates WRs and CBs.

What about the Jaguars?

V.I.P
08-22-2011, 04:21 PM
You forgot one hyphen.

I <3 Ness!

nepg
08-22-2011, 05:14 PM
They passed on Adrian Peterson for OLine ... The Cardinals are just stupid, incompetent ******* morons.
Yeah...the one year they should have passed on OL, they draft a RT in the Top 10. Brilliant.

nepg
08-22-2011, 05:15 PM
Luckily next year is deep at the QB position (I think lol) so hopefully we can nab a QB in the 1st, then the top tackle in the 2nd. Basically what Atlanta did with Matt Ryan/Sam Baker. It seems like forever ago that we had a dominant Oline.
2011 was deep at QB... Far deeper than 2012.

nepg
08-22-2011, 05:17 PM
Ozzie Newsome hates WRs and CBs.
They draft WRs, but the ones they draft just don't work out or get injured.

V.I.P
08-22-2011, 05:27 PM
Luckily next year is deep at the QB position (I think lol) so hopefully we can nab a QB in the 1st,

aah, i see what you did there.

descendency
08-22-2011, 05:54 PM
New England Patriots - everything

Fixed.

NE never fixes their "most obvious need." Never ever.

M.O.T.H.
08-22-2011, 06:51 PM
If we're talking by way of draft...Dallas constantly avoids S in the early rounds.

And we all know it took Jerry this long to draft a damn T in the 1st round.

As for something else...I've commented about it before, I really cant stand when teams pass on WR when the need is so obvious. This happens a lot with teams with young QBs as well, as stupid as that sounds. Sure, #1's dont dont grow on trees, but some teams just continue to pass at that opportunity to add a WR with actual #1 potential. A lot of teams just seem content with a team full of ordinary 2s and 3s...too many times you see a good young QB, with an empty cupboard at WR, and it continues to go unaddressed again and again.

yo123
08-22-2011, 06:58 PM
The Vikings secondary has sucked as long as I can remember.

Woody56
08-22-2011, 07:09 PM
Jets tried to draft a pass rusher, it just didn't work out (Gholston)

Maybe This Year Mayhew
08-22-2011, 08:15 PM
Backus has played well in 2009 and 2010(other than one big play) and Gosder turned the corner in pass pro last year. Hilliard did well when he came in for Gosder at RT and Jason Fox showed some promise before his foot injury. Do the Lions need a future LT yes, but building the team elsewhere has been the right call so far. Pettigrew I couldn't be happier with over Oher(although I would love to Alex Mack on the team over Raiola but they had just signed Raiola right before the draft) and of course Stafford/Suh over any 1st round LT I couldn't be happier with on the team. I need to see what a healhty Best can do compared to Saffold and it's too early to judge any rookie LTs this year compared to Fairley and Titus Young.

Backus is back from his pec injury, we shall see how that plays out with the ironman LT with 160 straight starts.

bucfan12
08-22-2011, 08:24 PM
Bucs, O-Line.

Funny, because if we get that one position fixed I think we're good.

You are dumb my friend and fellow bucs fan. You are another one of those people that are overeacting over a preseason game.

bucfan12
08-22-2011, 08:26 PM
I hope the Lions don't take on the Steelers approach to the o-line. Remember, the Steelers have Big Ben, who can shed off defenders and avoid sacks, and actually take a beating.

Stafford has shown that he can't take that type of beating Roethlisbuerger does. They need to address the o-line.

keylime_5
08-22-2011, 10:16 PM
The Bills are never gonna take a left tackle.

Pittsburgh wants an O-Line and a cornerback every year it seems but their need and their pick value never match up usually.

I think the next time Andy Reid drafts a linebacker high will be the first.

regoob2
08-22-2011, 10:19 PM
Bears:

OG and WR.

V.I.P
08-22-2011, 10:24 PM
You are dumb my friend and fellow bucs fan. You are another one of those people that are overeacting over a preseason game.

Beside Penn, and Joseph who else on our line would be a starter on another team?

I've been saying we needed o-line help way before the Patriots defense embarrassed us.

BTW Faine is overrated!

DI
08-22-2011, 11:20 PM
Was iffy on the Prince draft pick but now he can't get back soon enough. Ughhhhhh

Rosebud
08-23-2011, 10:39 AM
The giants don't so much neglect LB as they do focus on the other aspects of the defense. DB and DL is just much more important and so maintaining our strengths in those areas takes priority.

bucfan12
08-23-2011, 11:03 AM
Beside Penn, and Joseph who else on our line would be a starter on another team?

I've been saying we needed o-line help way before the Patriots defense embarrassed us.

BTW Faine is overrated!

Dude, we don't have to have an Offensive line full of pro bowlers.

Check the tape, we had a very good offensive line last year. Larsen was a steal and is going ot be a future center. Brandon Carter is a beast and physical and nasty type of play will earn him some time.

I do think we need to upgrade at RT. Although Trueblood does have that nasty type of side, he's been a bit inconsistant. However it's tampa's best option right now.

I dislike Faine in the worst way. He dropped 10 lbs from his original playing weight, which was in the 290's last year. You don't succeed with a 280+ lb center in this leagu.e

DraftSavant
08-23-2011, 11:03 AM
I think this happens for two reasons:

1. Coaches/GMs value and devalue certain positions.

EXAMPLE: Jim Schwartz and Martin Mayhew for the Lions don't value the LT position. They see the Colts and Steelers get it down with average LT play and opt for playmaker instead.

2. Coaches/GMs know their strengths/weaknesses drafting.

EXAMPLE: Andy Reid doesn't draft LBs. Why? His talent evaluations aren't all that great. He nabs mid to late round guys to plug and play them, and it works. I also was in the belief that Scott Pioli found himself in this situation at skill positions (up until this year).

Pretty much sums it up. Indianapolis is another one with linebackers. They prefer to draft a mid-round guy, develop him for two years, start him for two, and let him walk.

Always remember, that in the cap era, you can't fill every position with an elite talent. You have to value/devalue certain positions to make it work economically.

bucfan12
08-23-2011, 11:04 AM
The giants don't so much neglect LB as they do focus on the other aspects of the defense. DB and DL is just much more important and so maintaining our strengths in those areas takes priority.

The Giants build there defense starting to the d-line. Not only do they have a great front 4, but excellent depth for rotations as a 3rd DT and 3rd DE.

That is why there defense is always successful.

BTW, I loved seeing Herzlich make the INT last night. Nice read and reaction timing. I think the Giants found themselves a future baller there.

killxswitch
08-23-2011, 11:27 AM
Beside Penn, and Joseph who else on our line would be a starter on another team?

I've been saying we needed o-line help way before the Patriots defense embarrassed us.

BTW Faine is overrated!

Colts fans would love to have the problem of only having two good OLmen.

Unbiased
08-23-2011, 12:26 PM
In his 3 years as the Jaguars GM, Gene Smith has addressed every position except for C. Someone mentioned WR and CB. He added Thomas, Dillard, Underwood, and Shorts. He chose to spend the premium picks on OL and a QB before addressing WR. As for CB, he traded up for Cox and drafted Isaac and also brought in Coleman as a nickel.

Pat Sims 90
08-23-2011, 12:29 PM
The Bengals have neglected to draft playmaking safety for years.

MucBuc
08-25-2011, 08:09 AM
Beside Penn, and Joseph who else on our line would be a starter on another team?

I've been saying we needed o-line help way before the Patriots defense embarrassed us.

BTW Faine is overrated!

And how many of our QBs, WRs, TEs and D-Linemen would have been starters on other teams before Dom started to methodically adress those needs since 2009?

The O-Line will eventually be taken care of, don't panic.

tjsunstein
08-25-2011, 08:35 AM
The Bengals have neglected to draft playmaking safety for years.
Oh hey, Robert Sands.

SolidGold
08-25-2011, 08:40 AM
Oh hey, Robert Sands.

Pretty sure Sands has been running with the third string all camp and not stood out much...Pat_Sims90...can you corroborate my story?

jth1331
08-25-2011, 10:56 AM
Everyone should **** and thank the football gods you didn't have Josh McDaniels drafting for your team.

iowatreat54
08-25-2011, 11:04 AM
Bears:

OG and WR.

This.

The Bears have neglected the WR position for years upon years, refusing to draft one higher than round 5 and only signing past their prime WRs in their 30s. It appears that under Martz, this philosophy will remain safe.

However, recently, OL has taken over as most neglected.

2010 problem: Give up most sacks in the league/nearly kill your QB
2011 solution: Draft Carimi, put him at RT, do nothing else.
2011 result: Give up 239023092 sacks in 2 preseason games already.
2011 result 2: Jay Cutler dies on the field.

Seriously, how can any type of coaching staff or management look at the OL the Bears have, and simply say, "We think we have a good group and don't need to change anything."

YAYareaRB
08-25-2011, 11:08 AM
idk probably cornerback. a true playmaker in the secondary is RARELY found in later rounds and thats when the 49ers only seem to draft corners.

OSUGiants17
08-25-2011, 11:15 AM
The Giants avoid drafting LBs like they are the plague.
I have been following the Giants draft heavily since 1991

The Giants philosophy has been to build through the draft. LB talent has been an issue for many years, I have been conistently frustrated by the inability of NYG to develop quality talent in house.

As there isn't too much football news, I decided to look through the LB drafting history (from 1991 to present) to see if there are any trends.

Here is what I found:

***********************************************

George Young -1997

1991/2 - LB Kanavis McGhee, Colorado

1991/5 - LB Anthony Moss, Florida State

1991/7 - LB Corey Miller, South Carolina

1992/7 - LB Corey Widmar, Montana State

1993/3 - LB Marcus Buckley, Texas A&M

1993/5 - LB Tommy Thigpen, North Carolina

1993/8 - LB Jessie Armstead, Miami (FL)

1995/4 - LB Ben Talley, Tennessee

1996/6 - LB Doug Colman, Nebraska

1996/6 - LB Scott Galyon, Tennessee

1997/3 - LB Ryan Phillips, Idaho

1997/4 - LB Pete Monty, Wisconsin

Seven years

* 2nd round - 1
* 3rd round - 2
* 4th round - 2
* 5th round - 2
* 6th round - 2
* 7th round - 2
* 8th round - 1

average 1.7 LBs drafted / year; average position round 5

***********************************************

Ernie Accorsi 1998 - 2006

2000/4 - LB Brandon Short, Penn State

2000/6 - LB Dhani Jones, Michigan

2002/5 - LB Nick Greisen, Wisconsin

2002/6 - LB Wesley Mallard, Oregon

2002/7 - LB Quincy Monk, North Carolina

2004/4 - LB Reggie Torbor, Auburn

2006/3 - LB Gerris Wilkerson, Georgia Tech

Nine years

* 3rd round - 1
* 4th round - 2
* 5th round - 1
* 6th round - 2
* 7th round - 1

average 0.8 LBs drafted / year; average position round 5

***********************************************

Jerry Reese 2007-

2007/4 - LB Zach DeOssie, Brown

2008/4 - LB Brian Kehl, BYU

2008/5 - LB Jon Goff, Vanderbilt

2009/2 - LB Clint Sintim, Virginia

2010/4 - LB Phillip Dillard, Nebraska

2010/6 - LB Adrian Tracy, William & Mary

2011/6 - LB Greg Jones, Michigan State

2011/6 - LB Jacquian Williams, South Florida

Five years

* 2nd round - 1
* 4th round - 3
* 5th round - 1
* 6th round - 3

average 1.6 LBs drafted / year; average position round 4-5

***********************************************

It quickly becomes apparent that there is a definate trend, and that NYG has a history of not putting emphasis on LB in the draft.

Compare that to our history of drafting RBs, TEs and safeties over the same period...

Up to to the era of around 1991, the Giants were well known for their quality LB group, both Banks and Taylor were early 1st round picks.

But you could also consider that up until we switched to a 4-3 under Reeves that 3-4 OLB could be considered the pass rushing priority like we currently have with our DEs.

We brought in quality talent and developed these guys in house.

However, since then LB hasn't been a draft priority. This is why we have had to turn to free agents like Barrow, Pierce, Emmons, Arrington and Mitchell.

This is an observation, not a criticism.

Like it or not, early round LB talent in the draft is not the way the Giants do business.


Hopefully we change that this year and take a guy like Te'o, Kuechley, Carder or Skov

Ness
08-25-2011, 11:18 AM
This.

The Bears have neglected the WR position for years upon years, refusing to draft one higher than round 5 and only signing past their prime WRs in their 30s. It appears that under Martz, this philosophy will remain safe.

However, recently, OL has taken over as most neglected.

2010 problem: Give up most sacks in the league/nearly kill your QB
2011 solution: Draft Carimi, put him at RT, do nothing else.
2011 result: Give up 239023092 sacks in 2 preseason games already.
2011 result 2: Jay Cutler dies on the field.

Seriously, how can any type of coaching staff or management look at the OL the Bears have, and simply say, "We think we have a good group and don't need to change anything."

Well look at the offensive coordinator. It's Mike Martz. Unfortunately his offenses have usually had offensive lines that don't hold up that well. Perhaps it's due in part to the kind of scheme he runs which if I'm not mistaken incorporates a lot of seven step drops. The Bears ran the ball a lot last year towards the latter half of the season though right? Which was really unusual for him. But anyways, he's still neglected the tight end position everywhere he's gone, passed the ball way too much traditionally, and had bad offensive lines. The Bears may to look elsewhere soon for an offensive coordinator. Not that Martz doesn't know what he's talking about, but it seems like what he's doing is becoming a little bit outdated.

Pat Sims 90
08-25-2011, 02:04 PM
Pretty sure Sands has been running with the third string all camp and not stood out much...Pat_Sims90...can you corroborate my story?

Yes he is running with 3rd stringers and has looked lost out there most of the time. He can't beat out Rico Murray or Tom Nelson or Taylor Mays for Backup job if that tell u anyting.

Auron
08-25-2011, 03:48 PM
Outside of Signing a few stopgap Free agents, and taking flyers on late round Draft picks. Saints haven't really addressed the OLB position. Thus why Scott Shanle remains a starter... I think they've tried to interject some youth at the position by bringing along Jonathan Casillas, but he suffered a season ending injury in pre-season last year. Hopefully this is finally the year he cracks the starting roster and emerges as a starter. *Fingers crossed*

vidae
08-25-2011, 05:45 PM
Pioli loves to draft OL and DL every year, and I'm more than okay with that. He doesn't usually touch WRs or RBs early, which I'm also ok with, depending on our situation.

The 09 class was pretty bad (though Tyson Jackson has been the talk of camp) but the 10 and 11 draft classes have been amazing. Pioli should keep doing whatever it is he's doing.